11:05 PM - September 10, 2010 by 23bluesman
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If you put down the controller and the other guy doesn't, you are getting knocked out or submitted in a couple seconds (just like falling asleep at the wheel of a driving simulator would result in crashing). Statistically speaking professional drivers don't drive on grass and crash cars into walls, but a good driving simulator lets you do it anyway and gives you realistic results (like a busted front fender and a broken windshield).
if you and the other fighter, fight LIKE that pro athlete would fight, then your stats would reflect accurately. You become the brain for the professional fighter who has physical skills and attributes you can choose to use (or not use) to your advantage... If you fight like a guy who has no idea what he is doing (for example grab Cung Le and immediately go for a Takedown against Jacare) you will lose quickly to a guy doing the right thing (e.g. Jacare throwing a guillotine takedown counter on the way down)
Every takedown you don't somehow defend is going to end up with you on your back (if you put the controller down, every single takedown the other guy tries, is going to be successful, that's what no dice rolls mean), every in-range punch you don't move out of the way of or block or parry is going to connect. The "simulator" rationality for this is VERY simple: Professional fighters don't miss a stationary heavy bag.. Real fighters don't find it difficult to take down a stationary grappling dummy... and if you stand still and don't actively defend yourself, we TREAT you like you just unplugged your fighters brain... We don't play the game for you, you have to play it (and we don't let random dice rolls play the game for you either). So if you don't act like the brain (if you fall asleep at the wheel), then your opponent is going to be successful at whatever he wants to do to you, his speed and degree of success may vary based on the fighter he selected, but even a wrestler can punch a stationary heavy bag without missing it.
This is a VERY cerebral sport. YOUR BRAIN (as the gamer) is what is going to determine your stats at the end of the fight. The result is a game that you are in control of, it is not frustrating even when you lose, YOU lost, because YOU did something you could have done differently, YOU went for a big move and got caught, and the result was losing the fight (just like real life).
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Every EA sports game has its level of "cheese" that can be abused in some sort of way by kids looking to find a edge in anyway possible. Will we suffer from playing realistically vs a punch spammer or some other form of "not sim" play style?
Also another good question mentioned by another forum member. Can you engage a submission at any moment similar to Undisputed(clicking in R3)?? If so, is there a negative for attempting subs over and over.
Oh and Anim8or. Check out our leagues here on OS. Would love to see you come over and throw some hands with us down here on OS.
Check out our old leagues we ran here on OS will give ya a idea.
http://www.operationsports.com/forum...c-xbox360.html
Would love to hook with some of the devs.
http://www.operationsports.com/vBull...post2041614099
Check out our old leagues we ran here on OS will give ya a idea.
http://www.operationsports.com/forum...c-xbox360.html
Would love to hook with some of the devs.
http://www.operationsports.com/vBull...post2041614099
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Our game is very deliberately designed in what we call a "Layered Design" structure. We create deliberate closed loop systems and defined depth rather than just adding "features" this means every attack has a counter that introduces as much risk as reward and everything you do has a depth layer with an associated risk reward. While this is a careful balance, we have had lots of tuning time on this game (Barnes and Victor have been hands on tuning full time, for a VERY long time)
You can TRY a submission whenever you like (as long as one is unlocked for that position for that fighter). But with every reward there is an equal risk, so having it denied will have huge hit to your stamina and you may lose position with the attempt, if you lose the submission battle you will lose even more permanent stamina, and you will always lose positional advantage. There is always a big risk associated with trying to finish the fight. It's very carefully balanced in the game to prevent that sort manipulation of the system.
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Really excited about the game. Can't wait to get the demo in hand come Tuesday!
# 26
Mossfan8480 @ 09/23/10 05:34 PM
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Your contributions here have been very informative. Thanks for that. I'm very excited to see how the game plays online and how stamina transfers over. As you may know, stamina for Fight Night 4 online was deeply flawed, allowing boxers to "spam" their punches with continuous body shots. It was impossible to stop them and it eventually ruined the online experience for me.
As you describe the game, it does have a chess match like description, which means we should see some quality fights where we are worn out at the end (if played true to the sport).
# 28
ManiacMatt1782 @ 09/24/10 03:04 PM
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The way it works is you got to "FIGHT" for the submission. Meaning, that when you tap you are making progress on the submission. But the opponent is also tapping to prevent it. So it is a stamina conservation mini game where you have to balance going for the submission with out burning all your stamina and try and force the opponent to burn all his stamina defending against it.
So basically you will be "resting" and recovering stamina while also fighting for the submission.
Hope that makes sense. Not the easiest to explain.
# 30
ManiacMatt1782 @ 09/24/10 03:22 PM
i could still see a limb submission go completely red before you have a chance to do anything if thts the case, like thrown on late in the fight to get a guy to tap before he has a chance to fight it off. any repeated tap system can be abued by a turbo controller unless there is a lockout period preprogramed by the developers. if you had enough stamina to finish, the turbo conroller would pretty much ensure that you finished. i thought it was gonna be like a press and hold style, then back off to regain stamina then hold it in again to fight for the lock or the escape
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Now with that said, Anim8or said they tested the game with turbo controllers and turbo controllers quickly get slaughtered do to the stamina system they are using.
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# 35
ManiacMatt1782 @ 09/24/10 07:02 PM
so you kinda have to pace your timing with the presses to get the most out of them? and then back off and regain stamina?
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There are so many different methods that have evolved, theories on each game that it is pretty fun seeing our submission experts go against each other. There are guys on the team who have gotten amazing at the games too.
# 37
23bluesman @ 09/24/10 09:43 PM
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# 38
ManiacMatt1782 @ 09/24/10 10:50 PM
anim8tor, i just want to thank you for helping us all understand a little better and giving us all an insight here. i and the vast majority of this community definitely appreciates it.
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