Madden 12 News Post

Madden NFL Designers Podcast #4 w/ Special Guest, Pasta Padre Available Now

04:13 PM - December 23, 2010 by Steve_OS

In Madden NFL Designers Podcast #4, Ian Cummings and Donny Moore take a look at the football gaming industry as a whole with special guest, Pasta Padre.

If you have problems, try this link. The audio does seem to drop in and out on occasion.

Game: Madden NFL 12Reader Score: 6.5/10 - Vote Now
Platform: PS3 / Wii / Xbox 360Votes for game: 44 - View All

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Member Comments

# 41 mestevo @ 12/26/10 12:49 AM

Good listen, by Madden 14 I am hoping online and offline franchise are only distinguished by someone being designated as a commissioner, and it's otherwise a seamless experience with no feature degradation.

# 42 ryan36 @ 12/26/10 02:20 AM

Guys, don't take what's said or not said in these as much of an indication of what's going to be in the game...

I'm not a huge Pasta fan, but I'm sure he knows they won't talk about anything specific.

It was just a cool podcast , I enjoy the behind the scenes looks, for me it's like the extra "the making of..." that comes with some DVD's . That's all I take it for but I still love these guys just talkin'.

# 43 BobbyColtrane @ 12/26/10 09:19 AM

of the billion things i would add to the game, making it "more social" is not something i EVER would have mentioned. Are you kidding?

# 44 TDKing @ 12/26/10 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WinstonWolf


	of the billion things i would add to the game, making it "more social" is not something i EVER would have mentioned. Are you kidding?

Someone higher up over at EA has no idea what the community really wants. He/She is trying to force what they think is a great idea and direction down our throats and NO ONE at EA has the balls to stand up and tell them how it should be. They are yes men IMO. They can come here chat and blog and say they are listening but they are NOT (imo). They have their orders doesn't matter what we really say or think. The only thing that will get their attention is SALES #'s. If you guys really want EA to hear you, you need to speak with your wallets. If what I want and expect is not in 12 I'm not buying, bottom line.

PS. How much of this community crap would you consider FREE advertising, just thinking out loud... Hmm...

And if anyone gets offended by this post, too bad, suck it up, I'm offended every year when I drop over $60 and don't get what I expect to get.

# 45 PVarck31 @ 12/26/10 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adembroski


	This is why people overreact to everything they say. He grabbed a number out of the air, there's no special significance to it. Just picking a Madden that's a ways off. Pasta got that, as he referred to the general direction of sports gaming. You guys are trying to be too smart by half.

I'm not trying to be smart, or read anything into it. I was just curious why he asked about it, and what the context was. It just seemed odd to me that he would specifically ask about madden 14. That's all.

# 46 BlackBetty15 @ 12/26/10 11:45 AM

Pod cast #4 reference:

Question: (dev team) Why do you think the you tube phenom on criticizing madden is so popular and how or does it affect sales, community, and madden as a whole.>>

My answer: I believe the youtube videos that criticize madden is popular only because we as consumers as you say ARE very passionate about madden and to a certain degree, expect way too much results in an unrealistic time frame. People dont realize that 2k and EA were pretty much side by side on last gen consoles. EA of course had the better metacritic score of the two in 05. If anything, those two games represented what can be accomplished when the right staff works together for several years and accomplish the "vision" they want their game to encompass. Now fast forward to now. People want a madden 05 or nfl2K experience with todays consoles. I mean why not? The technology is def better and you can only go forwards with a game right? The thing is, in my opinion, when madden jumped to the next gen consoles...the dev team with David Ortiz lacked a clear vision that resembled what we as a fan base would call an NFL experience. So when we all saw that first awesome trailer of the 360 madden where TO was doing his thing and mcnabb was there too we all expected a high flying over the top, midget kicking NFL in your living room experience and what we got for about 3 years was this half tailed game that left me, for a lack of better analogy’s, like a kid who expected a TMNT action figure with the turtle van included for Christmas and what you got was a coloring book and socks your grandma knitted instead. What does that have to do with you now? Simple, fans have been dissecting madden since it came out for 360 in 2006. The deal with being the only football game in town is, you have EVERONES undivided attention. That includes the pessimist fan base that if I remember correctly...bashed the crap out of 2K5 when it first came out for negativity. I am def not saying that the videos posted have no basis for truth or that some of them don’t need to be watched because some bring up very good points. (The ones where weight and strength should play a bigger role, and some of the interactions animations with ol/dl and wr/db are ones that could be watched) Back to the answer, the video making is popular because people want to have the same NFL experience that 2K and EA delivered in 05 but now want to triple that on the next gen consoles. You guys (Ian, donny ect...) are caught in a hard place because essentially; and correct me if I am wrong, had to recreate an entire new madden identity for the next gen. A whole new vision had to be established, and the game itself had to be stripped down entirely from the 3 years of work ortiz's crew did and a whole new game had to be built from the ground up. 2 years into this dev cycle and here we are, except...people want 5 years of progress without realizing that the game changed leadership and dev 2 years ago now. Its not as simple as changing hands and continuing on, the whole game had to be stripped and built in a new direction. So fans with 1. and unrealistic time frame and 2. no knowledge of what I stated above rip into madden now and make videos that bash madden to the ground with you dev crew going along with it. Its why I told you a long time ago Ian, if you want credible suggestions of what people really want in a NFL game you cant ask the masses because the mob is angry so to speak. People like me, and tons of others who are openly honest and have knowledge of the industry are the ones you should be asking input from. Dont believe me...go to the mlb show thread and look how impactful the community day outings are. HOW IT AFFECTS Yall...I will be honest, I was a little late buying madden this year because of my job, and because of the offline franchise lack of additions. I still bought the game early, but I will say when people log into OS or randomly search youtube videos (which is an addiction for the masses for some reason) they come across these videos which highlight the negative things right up front before they get a chance to play the game first. You guys as a whole know that society always looks for the negative in everything before the positive is seen and that holds true for electronics more so than anything else. I am guilty of this to a point. I went through several TV's before I bought the one I wanted solely because the negatives were less. I didnt even see the positive until the end. So when people see these videos they do have a negative impact on sales and the community because before they even get a chance to play it, they have this feeling of, "oh boy here we go again" ordeal and therefore either join the blog nation bashing you guys or they simply dont buy it. So there you go, hopefully that explains a ton, I do have my wishlist for where would like madden 12 to go which I would gladly give you, but this should at least give you a good idea of why it is you guys catch so much crap and where you can go from here.

# 47 BlackBetty15 @ 12/26/10 12:42 PM

Sales impacted by reviews, impressions, and videos

In a sense, we as a society are a very pessimistic by nature when dealing with what we put our money into, who we put our trust into, and pretty much anything we see that has the ability for us to form an opinion into. I could go into a psychological thesis into why this is but for the sake of just giving an answer I will say that due to the above, whether you make an amazing game or not, there will be (note that I didn�t say might be) negative reviews and consumer dissatisfaction with games. Until the day we all don 3D football helmets like JLO in the movie, The Cell, we want too much from a football game. Now, I will say that there are flaws that generally tick me off about the game. Things like the offline franchise coaching hiring and firing AI, the draft (importing ncaa classes and having weird ratings, equipment, and numbers) penalties (lack thereof) and some animation and weight logic. But I also understand what kind of things go into a dev cycle and what had priority to go along with the vision you painted 2 years ago, Here is a good example of how reviews, impressions, and videos can make or break you. When I got back from ranger school, I wanted to buy a military shooter game. Now I liked MW2, so you would think my natural course of action would be to buy COD black Ops right. Well before I did I researched VIA reviews, impressions, and videos and based off of those I came to the conclusion that black ops was garbage online with immature people and cheats. So right away without even so much as a rental thought, I dismissed black ops. Well, I still needed a shooter so I looked further and saw Bad company2. I did the same thing and saw tons of impressions here at OS and eventually got sold on the game and have loved it ever since even though I and never ever played a battlefield game. So because of bad youtube videos and impressions, black ops lost a sale and because of good vids and impressions BC2 got a sale plus a ton of DLC I purchased. You take that AND I also got my buddy to play with me so HE bought BC2 with all the DLC I had. I would have to say you multiply that a couple hundred thousand times and that�s a pretty nice payoff.

# 48 Rules @ 12/26/10 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 31


	I'm not trying to be smart, or read anything into it. I was just curious why he asked about it, and what the context was. It just seemed odd to me that he would specifically ask about madden 14. That's all.

Madden 14 was brought up because it will most likely be directed towards the next gaming systems.

Just a guess when we might see something new with the Madden series

# 49 mestevo @ 12/26/10 03:12 PM

14 was pulled out of the air as an arbitrary number of years in the future to guess how the game will have changed, nothing more.

# 50 fringeelement @ 12/26/10 04:11 PM

I'm a strict offline 'chise guy. Have been since the feature was implemented. I avoid online like the plague because of all th horror stories about cheesers and glitchers. with that said, the dream of an online franchise is probably what most enticed me about this new generation of systems. I think what's important is that they get one type of franchise perfected, whether it be on-line or off. If they concentrate on off-line, they have to perfect the A.I. They have to make it feel as if we are competing with other thinking and feelinf human beings, both on and off the field. If they concentrate on on-line they need to to perfect gameplay and completely eliminate cheese and glitches. If they do either of these things, they'll have the ultimate franchise mode and it wont matter if it's on-line or off-line. And I know that asking for perfection in any of these areas in a video game is probably impossible, but that should at leasst be the goal. If tht's what they shoot for they'll end up with something we all can be happy with.

# 51 blood9585 @ 12/26/10 04:40 PM

"Customization is king to sports gamers�." I totally agree with that comment Ian Cummings. This is a major reason why I would say custom playbooks has been a will continue to be my biggest wish list item for every new madden game.

# 52 ryan36 @ 12/27/10 10:34 AM

Tlc, I agree with you. just in general it's like they have this list of 95 features to put in, but the game still doesn't have an "identity." Post patch, it's pretty awesome, but I still may not buy 12. I buy it used cuz it's football , and I don't play online anyway. 34.99 at a used store or 59.99 full price = $25 a year roster updates.

The game just needs a soul. Some signature thing that pervades it's essence in every gameplay mode.

# 53 roadman @ 12/27/10 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tlc12576


	I will save my "constructive criticism" till after the New Year, Happy Holidays to you and the entire EA family.

TLC, you need to work on your New Years Resolutions. tsk tsk, sorry couldn't resist that one.

There isn't much to disagree with your above post, just remember, they also have a marketing department that is equally involved as the development department.

Also, I do believe they watch the NFL and at the same time, have copies of the next Madden in a computer. This was very evident when part of the team visited Madden. It just needs to all come together at some point.

# 54 Hova57 @ 12/27/10 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ryan36


	Tlc, I agree with you. just in general it's like they have this list of 95 features to put in, but the game still doesn't have an "identity." Post patch, it's pretty awesome, but I still may not buy 12. I buy it used cuz it's football , and I don't play online anyway. 34.99 at a used store or 59.99 full price = $25 a year roster updates. The game just needs a soul. Some signature thing that pervades it's essence in every gameplay mode.

I personally have played madden 11 maybe 7 times. my son likes it alot more than i do. but after listening to the podcast i get the impression that they get it , but don't.

I don't think they could add the soul need for the game only because the soul of football is the unexpectedness of it all. not everyone is x and o type of guy and football its mostly the x and o and the excitement of when it goes your way. to some this may be boring and cater to one area. so like they said in the podcast what do you do.

# 55 youALREADYknow @ 12/27/10 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roadman


	There isn't much to disagree with your above post, just remember, they also have a marketing department that is equally involved as the development department.

An intelligent company would have stopped taking their cues from marketing once they cornered (aka bought out) the market. You don't need MARKETing when you are the MARKET.

I still feel that the flaws with Madden, NCAA, Tiburon, and EA are all management driven. Can't prove it without a doubt, but the mistakes being made are typical of poor management and planning.

# 56 roadman @ 12/27/10 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by youALREADYknow


	An intelligent company would have stopped taking their cues from marketing once they cornered (aka bought out) the market. You don't need MARKETing when you are the MARKET. I still feel that the flaws with Madden, NCAA, Tiburon, and EA are all management driven. Can't prove it without a doubt, but the mistakes being made are typical of poor management and planning.

You are probably going into the area of blowing up the business model.

I'm just trying to remind people that the way the current business model is, Ian, Phil, Donnie and Josh aren't the only people with influences in what's inside the game.

# 57 Hova57 @ 12/27/10 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by youALREADYknow


	An intelligent company would have stopped taking their cues from marketing once they cornered (aka bought out) the market. You don't need MARKETing when you are the MARKET. I still feel that the flaws with Madden, NCAA, Tiburon, and EA are all management driven. Can't prove it without a doubt, but the mistakes being made are typical of poor management and planning.

i believe it was poor marketing and management. Marketing fault for giving impression a type of consumer they can get a share in without fully understanding exactly how and what their product can do or does to attract that type. Management not giving or allowing the right tools to for your development team work to the best of their abilities.

Management is all about what you give your team to make the service or product successful. I've worked in situations where the tools giving ie equipment, managment knowledge and expections were poor. I've also had great equipent , good management team, but the higher up expection and knowledge is poor. You gotta find a happy medium. That's we EA stands now is finding the happy medium. I believe the managment teams are fine, but it what above them is what needs the tweaking. I believe i read that there is one guy who over seeas production for games using the same materials. i think this is just the beginning of bridging the gap.

# 58 Hunkerdown @ 12/27/10 12:08 PM

My two cents........ If Madden would go the direction the NCAA team has with OD, this in my opinion would be a winner for all. I have a OD with 12 guys and we are in year 3; if it was like Madden's online franchise it would of never made it out of year 1. I like the mix of online with offline features as well. We have a full dynasty that keeps everyone coming back. The key is having a good group of guys and a strong commish that doesn't take cheese ballers; and with the ability to have sliders for all cpu opponents games, it has made it golden!! Since I have this full OD I don't even need to play offline also; since it just like playing offline with the human team aspect as well.

# 59 illwill10 @ 12/27/10 01:09 PM

One of the problems I see with Madden current gen is that one year they improve or add a feature then they put it on the backburner for the next few years(SS, Online franchise, off. franchise) and they will try to add more features. They should just improve all aspects they have and then try to add more features. When you dont improves features or key aspects they get dull and dont get play time(SS mode).

# 60 RGiles36 @ 12/27/10 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tlc12576


	*He admitted to sacrificing visual realism to give the user more control. I think this is the wrong perspective to have when creating a NFL video game and that's why I suggested a change.* Just like with NBA Elite, EA thought they could put out a visually inferior sports title and make the unprecedented user control using the new physics system its' main selling point. You see how that went over, because when simulating an actual sport, it is critical for a next-gen video game to meet a reasonable visual standard of the real sport.

To an extent, all videogames do this. Even NBA2K allows for some "creativity" in movement that you otherwise couldn't pull off in real life.

With that said, remember when the NCAA retail was out and the Madden demo was released? Several OSers complained that Madden's locomotion was too tight and that NCAA's felt better i.e. more loose. I was surprised to hear so many OSers say this! But it proved at least to me that fun ranks right up there with realism.

So I don't know that we can really say that Ian's/Tiburon's vision is wrong when it appears to be supported by OSers, even if they don't intend to. Regardless, for better or worse, Ian is a user control guy (IMO). I don't look for that to change; after all, it is a videogame.

------------

As for presentation, I did suggest to Ian via Twitter that they do a podcast on the shortcomings of presentation the past couple years and what the vision is for it. He responded that it may be feasible, but also noted that there should not be any shortcomings this year presentationally. I know better than to get too excited about that, but take it for what it's worth.

For a sports gamer like myself, presentation is the big thing this game is missing. I can have fun with the gameplay, but everything else is so boring. The overlays (or lack thereof), the bland & fragmented commentary, and whatever else you want to pick out make this game boring. Let's face it: not every play in football is a big play. It's not fun to watch 3-4 yard runs or short passes. That's why presentation is SOOOOO important! There's gotta be stuff in between plays that keeps the user engaged. Otherwise, you're just going through the motions.

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Madden NFL Designers Podcast #4 w/ Special Guest, Pasta Padre Available Now