NHL 13 News Post

NHL 13 Last Man Standing Goalie Trailer

02:30 PM - July 2, 2012 by Steve_OS

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Quote:


	The last man standing. Your last line of defense. With EA SPORTS Hockey I.Q., goalies in NHL 13 have been completely overhauled featuring all-new goalie anticipation and complete limb movement. Netminders will read and anticipate the play as it develops and with over 1000 new animations, are more dynamic than ever before. Goalies are now fully equipped to make that unthinkable save when the game is on the line.

Game: NHL 13Reader Score: 8/10 - Vote Now
Platform: PS3 / Xbox 360Votes for game: 23 - View All

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Member Comments

# 21 gopher_guy @ 07/07/12 12:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rogie Vachon


	The cpu goalies look great,except fot the stupid 1950`s upright post hug. Get rid of it,so the game will actually use the modern ones that are in the game. Why EA is in love with this ancient stance is beyond me. For human goalies,....we`re getting hosed. Less control then NHL12. The human goalie can`t use the paddle down technique effectively,because we can`t use it inside the crease.The cpu goalie can,....not the human goalies.

Doesn't there just come a point where there's only so much you can control with two joysticks and 4 triggers/bumpers?

What would be your ideal controller layout to have the amount of control you are pleading for?

(Not being a jerk with that question... Legitimately curious...)

# 22 Weapon X @ 07/07/12 01:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rogie Vachon


	For human goalies,....we`re getting hosed. Less control then NHL12.

Rogie, you know that I hear you on a lot of the goalie stuff, as you usually have our (user goalies) best interests in mind, but when it comes to this, our thought processes go completely separate ways.

The real question is, how exactly do you think the new RS system using 'anticipation' give us less control than the NHL 12 variant of "flick RS in a direction; get locked into the only animation that command triggers; pray the puck hits the miniscule pre-determined 'save area' the animation contains lest you enjoy getting lit up like a Las Vegas casino"? The old system was so impractical, I found it to be a better venture to just not touch it at all and let the ratings make the saves, which really takes the immersion (and technically, control) out of playing goal. Even then, playing that way had problems arise (I know for a fact that a cross-crease pass is coming, but it doesn't matter, because the desperation controls have become too clunky to fire off on reaction, and unless my Angles, Agility and Speed ratings are jacked out the arse, I'm basically up ****s creek). If the anticipation works as intended, it makes the system more intuitive while possibly giving the user incentive to use the RS again. If I read correctly, flicking (or perhaps holding) RS in a direction will now influence the side in which the user thinks the save should be attempted on, where the new independent limb system and ratings will then take over again. Not to mention it may also be able to initiated the "cheating" system the game now allegedly has so you aren't helpless if you know a cross-crease pass is coming but don't have the proper ratings jacked up. So basically, it may in fact give manual control back to those of us who crave it without the gigantic handicap that the old system put on us when compared the the results of not using it at all.

WX

# 23 Weapon X @ 07/07/12 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rogie Vachon


	It`s only being used to enhance with the new AI what will be auto triggered reactions/saves.

Which is how it was in 12 if you actually wanted to be a decent 'tender. At least this could possibly give us some user error into that system without the gigantic handicap from the previous installment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rogie Vachon


	What limited control we had doing anything with our limbs with the RS was still human controlled,....and could also be used in desperation to a late deflection or puck being passed against the grain...lots of different situations.

Yet it was completely impractical 99% of the time, and again it acted as a self-imposed handicap rather than the "user freedom of selection" system most assume it was intended to be.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rogie Vachon


	Who in the hell wants to play the position when you don`t have to do anything? It`s like being a glorified Pong paddle with the cpu doing all the fun stuff.

But that's exactly what happens anyway in 12. In fact, it's how I've been forced to play goal in every iteration of the game since Goalie Mode was introduced back in 08 if I didn't want to get blown up on the score sheet. If you don't touch the RS at all in NHL 12, the ratings + your positioning alone determines the save. It happens regardless. This system just appears like its trying to get the user involved into said system with better "success v faliure" results if you anticipate / read the shot correctly. If you wanted to be decent in the NHL series in goal, you didn't touch RS at all and let your ratings bail you out. That was the cardinal rule for the past 5 years. That's one of the ways I was always able to obtain legit stats with my BAP characters over the years. If this system influences more RS use and promotes user error without locking them into one lone animation, then it's by definition adding control, not subtracting.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rogie Vachon


	I`m sorry,but playing as a goalie in NHL12 was not good,and it wasn`t because of the Right Stick Manual Saves....where if you didn`t like to use them,....hey,you didn`t have to use them.

Isn't that part of the problem? That you didn't have to use manual saves at all (with better results imminent if you didn't), when in reality we do have to do something other than just dropping to the butterfly when we see a puck rocketing towards us?

WX

# 24 gamerk2 @ 07/08/12 02:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rogie Vachon


	Edited video of a cpu controlled goalie is,.... meh. What can human controlled goalies do? Half of what the cpu goalies can? What if human skaters could only do half the abilties as cpu controlled players? You think all hell would break loose?

Frankly, I'd be happy if I could pull the save I WANT to pull. You have any idea how many times I know EXACTLY where the puck is going to go, but have no option to pull out the sliding save animation that I know will actually save the puck?

That's the biggest problem in 12: You have no control over what animations you get, so you have to have almost perfect positional play, because you have no ability to correct when beaten [and it does happen]. Hence why so many EASHL goalies have ~800 save percentages and ~3.5 GAA's, and only maybe 5 have stats approaching real life.

# 25 gamerk2 @ 07/08/12 02:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jyoung

From today's new goalie blog:

http://www.easports.com/nhl/news/art...alie-deep-dive

Quote:

User Controlled Goalies - Anticipation

This year the right stick is used to anticipate a save, allowing the human controlled goalie to prepare for a shot without committing to the save and moving out of position. If the player guesses right they are that much more likely to make the save. Guessing wrong still leaves the goalie with a chance to make a save, but they�re going to be an instant slower which could be costly.

Once committed to a save human controlled goalies will still have the ability to adjust and correct, using their individual limb control to raise a blocker or kick out a pad to make that amazing save.

The poke-check ability has also been improved for human controlled goalies in NHL 13, making it more accurate and increasing the chance that the player controlled goalie will end up with the puck.

This is actually what I've wanted for some time now. Allow me to predict a cross ice pass, but not move out of the way of the guy who still has the puck on the other side of the ice.

# 26 gamerk2 @ 07/14/12 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rogie Vachon


	And you needed the RS to do this? How does a controller predict what`s going to happen? Wouldn`t it be you that is doing the anticipating? Wouldn`t you just rather be able to move well,at the needed time? Why do you need to move early now? Does it make sense to move early when the puck carrier can still shoot?

You have to move early, because on a cross ice pass, you currently have no chance of making it all the way to the other side of the net before the puck goes in. So you either have to leave part of the short side open [which EASHL players can easily hit], guess exactly when the pass is comming and move then, or wait for the pass to actually happen and hope the puck isn't aimed all the way over at the other post.

Allowing me to press the RS to the right to predict that pass simplifies things. The way I imagine it, this will allow me to play the man without opening the net, and if the pass does come, you get a much faster slide to the other side of the net.

And I again note, if the CPU defense could do ANYTHING, this wouldn't be nearly as big a problem as it currently is. Its the defense job to cover the pass in that situation, but the AI just backs into the net...

# 27 Revan30 @ 07/14/12 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gamerk2


	You have to move early, because on a cross ice pass, you currently have no chance of making it all the way to the other side of the net before the puck goes in. So you either have to leave part of the short side open [which EASHL players can easily hit], guess exactly when the pass is comming and move then, or wait for the pass to actually happen and hope the puck isn't aimed all the way over at the other post. Allowing me to press the RS to the right to predict that pass simplifies things. The way I imagine it, this will allow me to play the man without opening the net, and if the pass does come, you get a much faster slide to the other side of the net. And I again note, if the CPU defense could do ANYTHING, this wouldn't be nearly as big a problem as it currently is. Its the defense job to cover the pass in that situation, but the AI just backs into the net...

This is because EA has a terrible skating engine for goalies and it takes them several strides to get across their crease--which is ridiculous and unrealistic.

When playing goal, you should be lined up with the puck at all times. A one-time pass is no different. The reason the cross crease works so much in this game is because goalies are ridiculously slow, even with 99 speed/agility, and the game has a terrible puck physics engine, which means that almost all passes are pretty much tape-to-tape, even with passing accuracy at 0 as well as pass reception at 0. You watch a real NHL game, players try to make cross-crease passes quite often, especially on two-on-ones, but a good 80% of the time, the pass will be too far behind or in front of the recipient, or the recipient will bobble the pass and lose the puck.

And even then, goalies in this game are just so slow. You shouldn't need a button to cheat. If you wanted to cheat you should just do it. You don't need an analog stick to guess--you should just do it. That's what any smart goalie does. It's even worse now that if you don't guess on a play, you're going to be penalized for it, since they said that if you do guess it apparently seems to boost your chances of stopping the puck.

I don't want to have to use a gimmicky right analog feature to do something that I already try to do while playing the game itself. They're just making goaltending more arcadey and clunkey than it has to be.

# 28 Cycloniac @ 07/15/12 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rogie Vachon


	NO. There are no skating improvements for the goalie. I don`t have to wait and see to know they have done nothing to improve human goalies,...all they`ve done is dumb it down. They hadn`t even fixed the bugs in the goalie animations at the community event. You know why? Because they don`t have a clue about goalies. Glorified PONG paddles!

Jeez Rogie, so negative. Would you rather the goalies in 12/13 or the goalies back in 10? (I popped in 10 yesterday, you see)

# 29 gamerk2 @ 07/15/12 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Revan30


	This is because EA has a terrible skating engine for goalies and it takes them several strides to get across their crease--which is ridiculous and unrealistic. When playing goal, you should be lined up with the puck at all times. A one-time pass is no different. The reason the cross crease works so much in this game is because goalies are ridiculously slow, even with 99 speed/agility, and the game has a terrible puck physics engine, which means that almost all passes are pretty much tape-to-tape, even with passing accuracy at 0 as well as pass reception at 0. You watch a real NHL game, players try to make cross-crease passes quite often, especially on two-on-ones, but a good 80% of the time, the pass will be too far behind or in front of the recipient, or the recipient will bobble the pass and lose the puck. And even then, goalies in this game are just so slow. You shouldn't need a button to cheat. If you wanted to cheat you should just do it. You don't need an analog stick to guess--you should just do it. That's what any smart goalie does. It's even worse now that if you don't guess on a play, you're going to be penalized for it, since they said that if you do guess it apparently seems to boost your chances of stopping the puck. I don't want to have to use a gimmicky right analog feature to do something that I already try to do while playing the game itself. They're just making goaltending more arcadey and clunkey than it has to be.

Slow goalies are indeed the root of the problem. Buts it rediculous that I have to bascially abandon the shot when predicting a cross ice pass.

The way I see it, if you "predict" a pass, you get a major dive across the net, enabling you to quickly get into position, without having to move away from the guy who still has the puck. Of course, if you could mvoe like that to begin with, you wouldn't need to be able to predict...

# 30 bwiggy33 @ 07/15/12 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rogie Vachon


	NO. There are no skating improvements for the goalie. I don`t have to wait and see to know they have done nothing to improve human goalies,...all they`ve done is dumb it down. They hadn`t even fixed the bugs in the goalie animations at the community event. You know why? Because they don`t have a clue about goalies. Glorified PONG paddles!

I basically agree with you 100% and have the same exact frustrations as you, I just don't play BAP so I wouldn't know what it's like playing goalie on that front. EA has no idea in any way at how a goalie plays, reacts, or moves. Personally I think they need to just about completely redo goalies and someone who knows goaltending needs to provide input in how to make them play the way they should. The two parts to this game that need to be changed are goaltending and the skill stick, once those two are fixed and done properly this game should be extremely good.

# 31 bwiggy33 @ 07/16/12 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RealmK


	Here's my question. Why would they do a brand new skating engine, complete with momentum (not over done like 2k btw) and not include goaltenders in that? It just doesn't make any sense.

Because the goalies have to move 100 times different than the skaters. I mean if you think about it, when they do mo cap sessions they specifically do a player and then a goalie because obviously goalies and players move differently. Nothing that a player does is tied to what the goalie does. Players glide and dig into the ice using both legs in order to skate. Goalies on the other hand shuffle and use short quick movements around the net. The only time goalies and players skate similarly is when the goalie goes out to play the puck.

Realm look at some video footage on youtube of NHL 07 and you will honestly see the same movement by the goalies in NHL 12 and that is no joke. From those videos of 13 goalies DO NOT move any differently at all. It's still the same hyperspeed and miraculously fast reactions. They just look bad all around. Do they make saves? Yes, but the goalies just don't look and move the way they should with this being the 7th edition on 360. It's just been hard for me to believe that this problem hasn't been touched in the 7 years of this game. They've upgraded animations of goalies but that's basically it.

# 32 jyoung @ 07/17/12 12:19 PM

Another goalie video from EA:

The goalies' lateral quickness looks way too fast to me.

# 33 bwiggy33 @ 07/17/12 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RealmK


	I dunno I don't think the "warp" as you put it is near as bad as some of the earlier iterations this gen. Goalies actually look like they at the very least push off now. I doubt it's going to be everything those that play the position are going to want, I'll give you that any day of the week and twice on Sunday. It just gets old when the same user or two has nothing but negative after negative to post when they haven't played the game yet.

The push they use looks great, but it's the movement and momentum that follows it that screws it over. It's almost like they float across the crease and then warp into a save. They are just way too quick and unnatural looking.

The reason I'm being negative about this is because it's straight up a major flaw to the game in my eyes. It always has been for me, obviously it doesn't bother too many others. I'm just saying what's on my mind and I can honestly say there is not much of a difference to the way goalies move from 07 to 12 (and what appears to be 13). Hell that video just showed how bad it is. Then EA hypes it up like it looks great. To me it just doesn't look good at all. As long as goalies don't flop and miraculously dive across the crease to make saves everytime I'll be ok. Ultimately I just want to see the goalies play the position the way it should be played, because I'm very sure not much else about them has changed.

# 34 gamerk2 @ 07/22/12 03:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jyoung


	Another goalie video from EA: The goalies' lateral quickness looks way too fast to me.

Looks about right to me.

# 35 BLA244 @ 07/25/12 01:18 AM

This game looks promising

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