NBA 2K13 News Post

More NBA 2K13 Player Ratings Revealed - Pippen, Love, Davis, Ellis, Waiters and Iggy

04:41 PM - August 28, 2012 by Steve_OS

2K Sports has revealed more NBA 2K13 player ratings for 6 more players.

Scottie Pippen - 92
Kevin Love - 89
Anthony Davis - 80
Monta Ellis - 86
Dion Waiters - 71
Andre Iguodala - 87

Previously revealed NBA 2K13 player ratings below.

Kobe Bryant - 93
Carmelo Anthony - 92
Rajon Rondo - 90
Kevin Durant - 95
Blake Griffin - 87
Harrison Barnes - 75

Game: NBA 2K13Reader Score: 8.5/10 - Vote Now
Platform: PC / PS3 / Xbox 360Votes for game: 75 - View All

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Member Comments

# 181 TRHINO @ 08/31/12 01:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ojandpizza


	I grew up watching Pippen, the bulls Pippen not the blazers Pippen and a 92 overall is fine with me.. He's a very overrated passer and ball handler, not saying he wasn't good in those areas but all of you Pippen freaks are acting like he's Magic or Penny out there.. He's also an overrated defender, when it comes to one on one defense that is.. In a team concept he was simply amazing though, one of the best ever.. I don't know if many of you actually watched him play or if you're just going off what you hear or what but thinking he should be higher or lower just doesn't make any sense to me.. I was the biggest Jordan/Bulls fan than I know during that time period, I've saw Pippen play tons and tons of times and been to several games in person as well.. He's not as well rounded as some of you like to think, and he is and definitely not a top 10 freaking player of all time.. I could easily think of 5 SFs I would take over him

You truly must not have watched him play the Pippen (your comments confuse me) Pippen is the guy who made the point forward position what it is today, overarted ball handler?I really dont see how you can say that you have to understand bro Pippne played in a era when guys could get up and guard you when players were not only talented but knew how to really play the game. Pippen career stats are very misleading because during his time with the Bulls even with MJ you could count on 20 plus and 7 reb and 7 assist. How many guys can impact a game just on defense alone like Pippen, his speed play making and Athletic ability was super, next thing you will say is he was not that athletic. I grew up during the 90's and watch Pippen from 91-the Blazer days. Dont understand how you could take 5 other sf over him. I truly think PIP gets a bad rap due to guys really not being able to have watch him play during the 90's and from the hype of the NBA players of today

# 182 ojandpizza @ 08/31/12 03:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TRHINO


	You truly must not have watched him play the Pippen (your comments confuse me) Pippen is the guy who made the point forward position what it is today, overarted ball handler?I really dont see how you can say that you have to understand bro Pippne played in a era when guys could get up and guard you when players were not only talented but knew how to really play the game. Pippen career stats are very misleading because during his time with the Bulls even with MJ you could count on 20 plus and 7 reb and 7 assist. How many guys can impact a game just on defense alone like Pippen, his speed play making and Athletic ability was super, next thing you will say is he was not that athletic. I grew up during the 90's and watch Pippen from 91-the Blazer days. Dont understand how you could take 5 other sf over him. I truly think PIP gets a bad rap due to guys really not being able to have watch him play during the 90's and from the hype of the NBA players of today

I did watch him play, 80s and 90s and I can EASILY pick 5.. He was athletic sure, every all star caliber player in the NBA is athletic, what's your point? You can't say Pippen is the greatest SF of all time just because he was one of the best perimeter defenders of his era.. I guess that makes Dennis Johnson the all time best PG, Dumars or Moncrief the all time best SG after MJ, Rodman or Oakley or whoever the best all time PF, and Mark Eaton or Mutombo the best all time Centers?... Sounds about right to me..

Pippen is versatile offensively and could play the point forward role, I never said he couldn't.. But he is so overrated in that aspect.. Walking the ball up the court and passing it to MJ isn't exactly "great ball handling" .. Shaq could even do that.. Seriously you overrate that aspect of his game way to much.. He's by no means a Penny Hardaway or Magic Johnson type "big guard" the way you're trying to make it sound..

As far as defense goes, yes he is one of the very best of his era and of all time.. But his on ball defense is very overrated as well.. He wasn't guarding the smaller faster guys, that's why AI's highlight is crossing up MJ not Pip, he was over powered by the bigger forwards, that's why they had Rodman, he wasn't as versatile defensively as what you might think you remember seeing.. He was however VERY VERY VERY damn good as a team defensive player, probably top 5 in NBA history, he's the perfect team defensive player at the SF position IMO.. I'm not trying to knock him defensively, but I am being realistic here.. You do realize Harper is usually considered a top 5 defensive PG, Jordan at SG, Pippen at SF, and Rodman at PF.. See where this is going? There defense was built around a team style, not individual... And Pippen was simply amazing in playing that role..

And Yes I can pick at least 5 SF that I would take on my team before Pippen..

1.Bird
2. LeBron
3. Elgin Baylor
4. John Havelicek
5. Dr. J
6. Dave Debusschere
7 then Pippen/Worthy/Nique' Wilkins

If you preferred offense to defense you could easily take Rick Barry, or Alex English over Pippen as well.. I would include them both in my 7th place tie..

I would take a PRIME (even though that didn't last long) Grant Hill up in the top 5 and after a few more years probably even Kevin Durant over Pippen..

Dubusschere is probably the only SF on the list who was actually a better defender than Pippen was... Probably the best on ball defender ever and could pretty much play SG-PF and be very effective up around 12 boards a game as and undersized forward position.. Could guard almost every position on the court as well. And score some points...
Dr. J is very underrated defensively as well, not Pippen level but still and it's scary to think how good LeBron could have been defensively playing in that era with Pippen

# 183 jwtucker710 @ 08/31/12 09:02 AM

Can't wait for this one! Run Dream Team '92 against DT '12. Just letting the CU simulate it and watch will be fun. LOL! Get the popcorn ready!

# 184 Belly_of_a_Whale @ 08/31/12 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwtucker710


	Can't wait for this one! Run Dream Team '92 against DT '12. Just letting the CU simulate it and watch will be fun. LOL! Get the popcorn ready!

So long as they don't overrate the current team. Melo's 92 scares me. There's no way he is as good overall as Pippen and Drexler. Barkley better be at least 94, and really should be a 95 overall.

Not saying the current team couldn't beat the '92 team, but the original Dream Team should be rated better overall and have the deeper bench.

# 185 JwP23 @ 08/31/12 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Belly_of_a_Whale


	So long as they don't overrate the current team. Melo's 92 scares me. There's no way he is as good overall as Pippen and Drexler. Barkley better be at least 94, and really should be a 95 overall. Not saying the current team couldn't beat the '92 team, but the original Dream Team should be rated better overall and have the deeper bench.

# 186 thilanwij @ 09/01/12 01:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwtucker710


	Can't wait for this one! Run Dream Team '92 against DT '12. Just letting the CU simulate it and watch will be fun. LOL! Get the popcorn ready!

You should like put it on HOF difficulty on Simulation sliders and really see how the game will turn out haha.

# 187 TheRetroKid @ 09/01/12 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ojandpizza


	I did watch him play, 80s and 90s and I can EASILY pick 5.. He was athletic sure, every all star caliber player in the NBA is athletic, what's your point? You can't say Pippen is the greatest SF of all time just because he was one of the best perimeter defenders of his era.. I guess that makes Dennis Johnson the all time best PG, Dumars or Moncrief the all time best SG after MJ, Rodman or Oakley or whoever the best all time PF, and Mark Eaton or Mutombo the best all time Centers?... Sounds about right to me.. Pippen is versatile offensively and could play the point forward role, I never said he couldn't.. But he is so overrated in that aspect.. Walking the ball up the court and passing it to MJ isn't exactly "great ball handling" .. Shaq could even do that.. Seriously you overrate that aspect of his game way to much.. He's by no means a Penny Hardaway or Magic Johnson type "big guard" the way you're trying to make it sound.. As far as defense goes, yes he is one of the very best of his era and of all time.. But his on ball defense is very overrated as well.. He wasn't guarding the smaller faster guys, that's why AI's highlight is crossing up MJ not Pip, he was over powered by the bigger forwards, that's why they had Rodman, he wasn't as versatile defensively as what you might think you remember seeing.. He was however VERY VERY VERY damn good as a team defensive player, probably top 5 in NBA history, he's the perfect team defensive player at the SF position IMO.. I'm not trying to knock him defensively, but I am being realistic here.. You do realize Harper is usually considered a top 5 defensive PG, Jordan at SG, Pippen at SF, and Rodman at PF.. See where this is going? There defense was built around a team style, not individual... And Pippen was simply amazing in playing that role.. And Yes I can pick at least 5 SF that I would take on my team before Pippen.. 1.Bird 2. LeBron 3. Elgin Baylor 4. John Havelicek 5. Dr. J 6. Dave Debusschere 7 then Pippen/Worthy/Nique' Wilkins If you preferred offense to defense you could easily take Rick Barry, or Alex English over Pippen as well.. I would include them both in my 7th place tie.. I would take a PRIME (even though that didn't last long) Grant Hill up in the top 5 and after a few more years probably even Kevin Durant over Pippen.. Dubusschere is probably the only SF on the list who was actually a better defender than Pippen was... Probably the best on ball defender ever and could pretty much play SG-PF and be very effective up around 12 boards a game as and undersized forward position.. Could guard almost every position on the court as well. And score some points... Dr. J is very underrated defensively as well, not Pippen level but still and it's scary to think how good LeBron could have been defensively playing in that era with Pippen

Dave Debusscher? How old are you? Did you actually watch the '70s Knicks teams or are you just regurgitating opinions from basketball books like, "Who's Better, Who's Best" and "The Book of Basketball"? Its not like offense, where you can go by stats and get an idea of how good they were. For defense, being that very few stats are generated from playing good defense, you actually have to have watched someone play defense to claim how good they were...unless they were rebounding, steals or blocked shot stats. Defense is shutting a player down, lowering their fg% and making a team look for their offense elsewhere. Those stats were rarely kept during the 70's, so unless you watched Dave play on a regular basis, I'd say your opinion belongs to Bill Simmons more than yourself.

Pippen, on the other hand, played during prime time. Everyone saw him play, and fellow players, commentators and analysts have put him on a level way above what you're calling. Are you saying you're more informed? Know the game better? You watched Bulls games for Jordan, and saw Pip score, but did you watch him play off the ball? No, because you're under-valuing his skills and abilities.

I'm 31, and I've been a Pippen fan my whole life, but my opinion isn't based on personal decade bias or generational hype. It's based on actually playing basketball and appreciating the intricacies and elements brought to the table that either aren't or can't be reproduced in today's game, or go unnoticed.

Overall, he is all-time top 5 when it comes to small forwards.
1. Bird
2. Hondo
3. Dr. J
4. Lebron
5. Pippen

He generated offense during a time where elbows to the back, hand checking and snake bites were happening. He played during a time when there was only one kind of flagrant. He played during a time where physical contact was going to happen, and folks were getting thrown to the ground and bodied on a regular basis.

In this day and age, you can't body someone up, let alone put a hand on them until they get to a certain place on the court. You can't hand check or put a forearm on a post player's back. Defenses can play zone and the slightest contact will be called. In order to generate a higher-scoring and more offense-friendly game, defenders can't defend like they used to. The best example of this is the mid-2000's, when Tony Parker and other guards were breaking top 20 in scoring due to their ability to get in the paint, get their hand slapped and go to the line. Remember when AI, TMac and Kobe were all averaging low to mid 30 ppg for a season? Tell me that's not due to the calls being offense oriented.

With those rules in place, two things happen. One, decent scorers who drive the lane are going to get a slight inflation to their scoring, as opposed to if they played in the 90's. Two, average defenders are going to look better due to zone and being able to roam around. How many times have you seen Lebron get posted by a center and play him straight up? How many times have you seen Lebron take a defensive assignment against the other team's superstar,maven though they're not the same position, just to shut down an offense? He gets passing lane steals and weak side blocks, but can't play anyone straight up.

Btw, when choosing the original Dream Team, the first three no-brainers were MJ, Magic and Bird. After that, it was Robinson and Pip. How much respect does a guy need to get from his peers and people in the know before armchair aficionados finally come to their senses?

Also, in the rare instance that you haven't read, "The Big Book of Basketball", Pip is ranked 24th all-time.

# 188 ojandpizza @ 09/01/12 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheRetroKid


	Dave Debusscher? How old are you? Did you actually watch the '70s Knicks teams or are you just regurgitating opinions from basketball books like, "Who's Better, Who's Best" and "The Book of Basketball"? Its not like offense, where you can go by stats and get an idea of how good they were. For defense, being that very few stats are generated from playing good defense, you actually have to have watched someone play defense to claim how good they were...unless they were rebounding, steals or blocked shot stats. Defense is shutting a player down, lowering their fg% and making a team look for their offense elsewhere. Those stats were rarely kept during the 70's, so unless you watched Dave play on a regular basis, I'd say your opinion belongs to Bill Simmons more than yourself. Pippen, on the other hand, played during prime time. Everyone saw him play, and fellow players, commentators and analysts have put him on a level way above what you're calling. Are you saying you're more informed? Know the game better? You watched Bulls games for Jordan, and saw Pip score, but did you watch him play off the ball? No, because you're under-valuing his skills and abilities. I'm 31, and I've been a Pippen fan my whole life, but my opinion isn't based on personal decade bias or generational hype. It's based on actually playing basketball and appreciating the intricacies and elements brought to the table that either aren't or can't be reproduced in today's game, or go unnoticed. Overall, he is all-time top 5 when it comes to small forwards. 1. Bird 2. Hondo 3. Dr. J 4. Lebron 5. Pippen He generated offense during a time where elbows to the back, hand checking and snake bites were happening. He played during a time when there was only one kind of flagrant. He played during a time where physical contact was going to happen, and folks were getting thrown to the ground and bodied on a regular basis. In this day and age, you can't body someone up, let alone put a hand on them until they get to a certain place on the court. You can't hand check or put a forearm on a post player's back. Defenses can play zone and the slightest contact will be called. In order to generate a higher-scoring and more offense-friendly game, defenders can't defend like they used to. The best example of this is the mid-2000's, when Tony Parker and other guards were breaking top 20 in scoring due to their ability to get in the paint, get their hand slapped and go to the line. Remember when AI, TMac and Kobe were all averaging low to mid 30 ppg for a season? Tell me that's not due to the calls being offense oriented. With those rules in place, two things happen. One, decent scorers who drive the lane are going to get a slight inflation to their scoring, as opposed to if they played in the 90's. Two, average defenders are going to look better due to zone and being able to roam around. How many times have you seen Lebron get posted by a center and play him straight up? How many times have you seen Lebron take a defensive assignment against the other team's superstar,maven though they're not the same position, just to shut down an offense? He gets passing lane steals and weak side blocks, but can't play anyone straight up. Btw, when choosing the original Dream Team, the first three no-brainers were MJ, Magic and Bird. After that, it was Robinson and Pip. How much respect does a guy need to get from his peers and people in the know before armchair aficionados finally come to their senses? Also, in the rare instance that you haven't read, "The Big Book of Basketball", Pip is ranked 24th all-time.

Why do you keep telling me what era of basketball Pippen played in like I don't already know that or something? Every guy I named off besides LeBron played is that "much tougher" era as well? So I don't see how that point is supposed to help any...

And I was never rating my players based on defense alone, I'm rating them as overall small forwards or overall players.. You can't just be great in one area or we would see Bruce Bowen on this list somewhere as well..

Also how was it Robinson and Pip the next two guys in line when neither of them started?? And even if he was chosen first to play on the dream team that's still just one season 1992, and I'm giving you small forwards from all time.. Him getting chosen for the dream team shows no relevance in the argument at all..

# 189 TheRetroKid @ 09/01/12 09:17 PM

The relevance if him chosen that highly was that the first dream team was THE team that was put together to showcase the cream of the crop. It was meant to display to the world the absolute talent that the NBA had. As for the starting lineups, they would occasionally, depending on the opponent (Pip started the game versus Croatia). So yeah, being picked for the original Dream Team was an honor, unlike today where the coaches have to keep their fingers crossed and hope the players want to sign on, otherwise, lesser caliber talent is settled upon.

If defense was never the focal point, then why throw out Dave debusscher, a player you obviously haven't seen play in person or even on more than 3 ESPN Classics games?

You seem to just name drop older players hoping no one really knows much about the game to contest, but Alex English and Rick Barry over Pippen? You're right, I won't contest, because the very notion is just too frustrating.

In the endmthough, your opinion is your own, and you're entitled to it.

# 190 Belly_of_a_Whale @ 09/01/12 10:00 PM

Bird and LeBron are #1 and #2 all-time at the small forward position. Which one is first is debatable. Pippen is elite for sure, but I'd put him just outside the top 5. People seem to be underplaying just how good Durant is. I'd put him at #5 RIGHT NOW. By the end of his career, he could be top 3. He's that good offensively, and what he lacks in defense, he makes up for with his freakish length. And he's only 23.

# 191 ojandpizza @ 09/02/12 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheRetroKid


	The relevance if him chosen that highly was that the first dream team was THE team that was put together to showcase the cream of the crop. It was meant to display to the world the absolute talent that the NBA had. As for the starting lineups, they would occasionally, depending on the opponent (Pip started the game versus Croatia). So yeah, being picked for the original Dream Team was an honor, unlike today where the coaches have to keep their fingers crossed and hope the players want to sign on, otherwise, lesser caliber talent is settled upon. If defense was never the focal point, then why throw out Dave debusscher, a player you obviously haven't seen play in person or even on more than 3 ESPN Classics games? You seem to just name drop older players hoping no one really knows much about the game to contest, but Alex English and Rick Barry over Pippen? You're right, I won't contest, because the very notion is just too frustrating. In the endmthough, your opinion is your own, and you're entitled to it.

I'm not trying to under value making the dream team, it is without question the greatest team ever assembled.. I was just saying that him making it didn't show much relevance to the argument.. I mean it was based off players from 1 season.. Who else woulda they have picked at SF? I mean at that point in the NBA with Bird older Pip was the best SF in the league so choosing him was a no brainer..

But I chose DeBusschere simply because his defense was that good, and you're right I'm not old enough to have watched him myself, but I do have games recorded and his stats to look back on... Defensively he was great, so was Pippen.. I gave Dave the edge because his all ball defense was amazing and his ability to be that versatile and guard nearly every position during his era was a huge factor in his teams championship success..

And I didn't say I would take English or Barry over Pippen, I'm saying somebody who valued offense over defense could easily pick those guys instead.. It's always opinion but people seem to forget how great of a scorer both of them were. English was the NBAs leading scorer through perhaps the best decade in NBA history.. That's saying something, you made the point that Pip played in a tough era and English perhaps played in an even tougher one.. Barry was just a scoring machine and still managed to have very good rebounding and assist numbers, a good FG% and amazing FT%.. But what's also impressive about him is his amazing playoff performances, his playoff numbers are ridiculous and he also has a finals MVP award I'm pretty sure.. Barry once averaged 36ppg, 9rpg, and 3apg, pretty darn good..

And trust me I'm not trying to just drop names of older players, if so I would have named a few more to throw in there.. I only named guys who I thought were above him, and then the few extra I named off after wards for other perspectives..

# 192 TRHINO @ 09/04/12 12:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nokstar


	I think pippen is a better on ball defender...I think lebron plays passing lanes better.. Pippen can shoot better in more spots on the floor...shoots better from the free throw line..they are close steals wise...other than that..lebron IMO is better than him in almost everything else. Sent from my Verizon Galaxy S3

I really wish people would stop comparing NBA players of this SUPER SOFT NBA era to Pippens era the players durimg Pippens era played defense were the greatest of all time and even the one that were not considered great TRULY knew how to play the game, if Lebron played during pippens era NO WAY he would score or put up numbers or stats he is putting up REMEMBER guys dont play defense anymore

# 193 ojandpizza @ 09/04/12 03:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TRHINO


	I really wish people would stop comparing NBA players of this SUPER SOFT NBA era to Pippens era the players durimg Pippens era played defense were the greatest of all time and even the one that were not considered great TRULY knew how to play the game, if Lebron played during pippens era NO WAY he would score or put up numbers or stats he is putting up REMEMBER guys dont play defense anymore

Dude LeBron is one of the few guys who's game could translate to any era.. He's the size of freaking Karl Malone, has the speed of almost any PG and doesn't rely on outside shooting to get his points.. And you're gonna tell me he couldn't play in the 90s? I understand times have changed, I grew up watching the 80s/90s but to say LeBron couldn't hang with those guys is ridiculous... You may not like him, and that's fine, but don't let your opinion on him falsely degrade his talent level..

# 194 Belly_of_a_Whale @ 09/04/12 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ojandpizza


	Dude LeBron is one of the few guys who's game could translate to any era.. He's the size of freaking Karl Malone, has the speed of almost any PG and doesn't rely on outside shooting to get his points.. And you're gonna tell me he couldn't play in the 90s? I understand times have changed, I grew up watching the 80s/90s but to say LeBron couldn't hang with those guys is ridiculous... You may not like him, and that's fine, but don't let your opinion on him falsely degrade his talent level..

This exactly.

# 195 TRHINO @ 09/04/12 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stlpimpmonsta


	Not sure how u r justifying 92pips rating by showing highlight that show more about 1994 and beyond........but whatever

man those videos were awsome, what it shows is how great a player Pippen was and how he could take over a game on defense alone, not many players can do that, and it also showed how he progressed as a scorer by adding the 3 pointer to his game. That is how he is justifying with video.

# 196 TRHINO @ 09/04/12 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ojandpizza


	Dude LeBron is one of the few guys who's game could translate to any era.. He's the size of freaking Karl Malone, has the speed of almost any PG and doesn't rely on outside shooting to get his points.. And you're gonna tell me he couldn't play in the 90s? I understand times have changed, I grew up watching the 80s/90s but to say LeBron couldn't hang with those guys is ridiculous... You may not like him, and that's fine, but don't let your opinion on him falsely degrade his talent level..

Im not i have played basketball and watched it for over 20 years and i know what i am taling about thats fine if you want to be wraped up in the whole Lebron thing because he is what the NBA is marketing now, but like i said this era of NBA is so soft and so about giving players things without them really earning it like MJ has said that it has become a joke, no way Lebron puts up the kind of numbers he is putting up in and era full of greats and and era full of players that were just as big just as strong and who played a thing called DEFENSE, there is a reason theyy changed the rules years ago to appease player like Lebron so they can score which really cheapens the game. Like i said before to many Lebron is along with Kobe the best in this era but when you talking about all time you going way to far. There is nothing Lebron or any of the Top players today do that i havent seen before when i have really watch MJ and Pip play

# 197 ojandpizza @ 09/04/12 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TRHINO


	Im not i have played basketball and watched it for over 20 years and i know what i am taling about thats fine if you want to be wraped up in the whole Lebron thing because he is what the NBA is marketing now, but like i said this era of NBA is so soft and so about giving players things without them really earning it like MJ has said that it has become a joke, no way Lebron puts up the kind of numbers he is putting up in and era full of greats and and era full of players that were just as big just as strong and who played a thing called DEFENSE, there is a reason theyy changed the rules years ago to appease player like Lebron so they can score which really cheapens the game. Like i said before to many Lebron is along with Kobe the best in this era but when you talking about all time you going way to far. There is nothing Lebron or any of the Top players today do that i havent seen before when i have really watch MJ and Pip play

You really sound like more of a casual fan than a true fan who's knowledgeable about the game. Of course everything you see LeBron do you've saw people do before.. That's how the game works.. What do you want him to do? Start shooting from half court and do 360 windmills every time he plays so he can be different? Everything MJ and Pip had been done before too, I don't see your point... And yeah the LeBron could play then..

The leading scorer through the entire 80s was Alex English and you're going to tell me LeBron doesn't have as good of offensively skill set as he does!? PLEASE! not to mention he's bigger, stronger, faster, and jumps higher... I'm not saying the NBA is better now than it was then, but it's still the best basketball players in the entire world.. It's not like it's a push-over league.. Sure rules have changed, that doesn't mean the talent isn't there..

I don't understand what you're basing this on.. Are you saying Pippen could stop LeBron? Even IF he could they would only play each other 2-4 times per season.. So how would LeBron not get his numbers..?

# 198 MostlyChilly @ 09/04/12 05:34 PM

Fortunately they rated Love over Griffin, which was absolutely the right thing to do.

# 199 ojandpizza @ 09/04/12 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MostlyChilly


	Fortunately they rated Love over Griffin, which was absolutely the right thing to do.

Yes sir! Finally somebody else here gives a little love to Love lol

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