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Operation Sports - Press Row Podcast: Madden NFL 25 Next-Gen with Vic Lugo

09:47 AM - October 17, 2013 by Steve_OS

The 50th (!) Episode of the Press Row Podcast is a one-on-one interview by host Rich Grisham (@richgrisham) with Madden 25 NFL designer Vic Lugo, one of the core gameplay leaders as the Madden franchise moves into the PS4/Xbox One generation. The conversation hits a lot of the fundamental aspects of what happens on the field, including locomotion, physics, blocking, controls, and how players interact with each other. It�s the kind of conversation you�ll hear nowhere else but the Press Row Podcast on Operation Sports.

Send us your feedback! We love to hear from you and can�t wait to read your stuff on the air in a future episode. Do it one of these ways:

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Also, the Press Row Podcast is now available on iTunes (https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/...ow/id563624090) and Stitcher Radio (http://www.stitcher.com/podcast/oper...ss-row-podcast), so subscribe to it and rate it too!

Lastly, be sure to check out our friends at Weekend Confirmed right here: http://www.shacknews.com/tag/weekend-confirmed. If you�re not already a listener, give it a shot. We�re all big fans!

Enjoy the show!

Run Time: 49 Minutes

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Member Comments

# 41 friscob @ 10/17/13 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Senator Palmer


	The game has always looked good, but that's not the point. You can't choose to release as your first blog -- your first intro to the public touting your next gen product -- an entire in-depth blog on how advanced the visuals are compared to current gen and then turn around a month later saying their isn't going to be a huge leap after you get caught with your pants down behind the MNF videos. It's makes you look disingenious at best and calls to question everything else you're touting about the game.

Makes you wonder if they were just overly optimistic of how it would turn out or just flat out liars. Hard to imagine somebody would be dumb enough to lie about it considering upon release we would all be able to judge the product for ourselves

# 42 howboutdat @ 10/17/13 01:05 PM

out of everything vic said , i take way 3 words from his interview.... that says it all to me , call it a subtle foreshadowing...... " dont expect much" .....BAM there it is folks, you heard it first here ......next gen madden , dont expect much....

# 43 Lexicon @ 10/17/13 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Senator Palmer


	The game has always looked good, but that's not the point. You can't choose to release as your first blog -- your first intro to the public touting your next gen product -- an entire in-depth blog on how advanced the visuals are compared to current gen and then turn around a month later saying their isn't going to be a huge leap after you get caught with your pants down behind the MNF videos. It's makes you look disingenious at best and calls to question everything else you're touting about the game.

They're going to tout most of the stuff in the game over the course of time before release. I don't think that the fact that the visuals were the first thing they touted means it's most important to them. Often times, they save the biggest thing for a few weeks before release; something closer to release anyway. They want that to be the sticking point.

Either people are going to buy the game or they won't. People who buy the game will either mostly love the new mechanics and spread the word to friends or via podcasts, or they'll mostly hate it and say they aren't going to buy Madden again. Thing is, I've seen so many people on here say they're done with Madden, yet they're going to follow the game until it dies (if that ever happens). I'm certainly not saying the game will be perfect, and DEFINITELY not saying EA can do no wrong, but there is a lot to be intrigued about for hardcore players. Stuff we unfortunately won't notice until we get the game.

# 44 NicVirtue @ 10/17/13 01:21 PM

I'm practically finished. I am not impressed by recent footage, and knowledge of how EA does things I'm sure "recent footage" will not change come release day. I've committed to putting my money on NBA 2K, and I haven't watch nor played a basketball game since 2006. Know little to nothing about the sport, but because at one point I was not able to distinguish whether or not I was looking at real life or a video game, I am willing to learn more about the sport and willing to indulge in the game. Madden on the other hand has not done that for me, ever. The only hope we as football gamers have is if the NFL lets 2K make an NFL game....not just "anybody", but 2K, as that would light a tremendous fire under EA and FORCE them to step their game up, considering that people still play a game that came out near 11 years ago.

# 45 Senator Palmer @ 10/17/13 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lexicon


	They're going to tout most of the stuff in the game over the course of time before release. I don't think that the fact that the visuals were the first thing they touted means it's most important to them. Often times, they save the biggest thing for a few weeks before release; something closer to release anyway. They want that to be the sticking point.

Agreed on most of what you posted here, but once again, not the point.

Product releases and the P.R. that goes along with that are a very delicate thing. You only get one chance to make a first impression and you don't release a blog as your first impression touting visuals, then turn around a month later to say "oh nevermind". It smacks of incompetence and doesn't engender a lot of confidence from the consumer.

Now I'm not going to get off calling anyone liars or anything, but I seriously doubt anyone would be saying "don't expect a graphical leap" if the reaction to those MNF videos had been as positive as the presentation blog hyped it up to be.

# 46 Lexicon @ 10/17/13 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Senator Palmer


	Agreed on most of what you posted here, but once again, not the point. Product releases and the P.R. that goes along with that are a very delicate thing. You only get one chance to make a first impression and you don't release a blog as your first impression touting visuals, then turn around a month later to say "oh nevermind". It smacks of incompetence and doesn't engender a lot of confidence from the consumer. Now I'm not going to get off calling anyone liars or anything, but I seriously doubt anyone would be saying "don't expect a graphical leap" if the reaction to those MNF videos had been as positive as the presentation blog hyped it up to be.

Technically, their first impression was E3. But yes, the way they've handled information has been dreadful, and obviously has backfired on them. Definitley not a pretty situation. I especially frown upon the way they use social media, but I can't say that many companies have a good track record of that.

I certainly wouldn't blame anyone for not buying this version of Madden, but if you're picking up a console, might as well spend a buck to rent Madden and try out what they've been working hardest on, especially since the main complain around these parts has been gameplay for as long as I can remember.

# 47 SageInfinite @ 10/17/13 02:03 PM

This whole ESPN video just reminded me of that Burger King footage from Madden 06. Yes the game ended up looking MUCH better than that, but the animations are what you got. I think it'll be the same here.

# 48 Brooke2011 @ 10/17/13 02:45 PM

Man....I just watched the trailer for nba2k14 next gen trailer, and I have to say they def did a better job with the graphical upgrade. So for this dude to say that there won't be a graphical leap from current gen to next gen, is not justified

# 49 poster @ 10/17/13 02:53 PM

Based on the espn clips, the gameplay is not at all fixed. Perhaps the way the O&D line interact with each other is "fixed" (we'll see), but the player movement and animations are still bad. No clips of tackling either, so I assume they are hiding that awful mess as well.

That being said, I still don't know what kind of magic act they are pulling here with the different kinds of clips. Could be Burger King, like Sage said. (I had forgotten all about that, good memory, Sage!) Just have to wait for real gameplay, but I am sure it will only come once the You Tube crowd gets their advanced copy.

# 50 ThrowBack @ 10/17/13 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SageInfinite


	This whole ESPN video just reminded me of that Burger King footage from Madden 06. Yes the game ended up looking MUCH better than that, but the animations are what you got. I think it'll be the same here.

I just looked up an old article regarding the 06 Burger King video and it's crazy how similar the comments were back then to what's being posted now about the MNF video.

�To be fair, the video was rather poorly encoded so there may well be some astounding detail and texture that didn't survive the encoding process. Still, if this is what passes for a launch title, the 360 is in big, big trouble come Christmas. �

�Regardless if we were shown that artist's interpretation or not, the next gen visuals should stun us. The jump from PS1 to PS2 was astounding. Even if we weren't shown the artist's interpretation, we should be left in awe, but we aren't. Those animations look recycled. �

# 51 Gjordan @ 10/17/13 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by howboutdat


	out of everything vic said , i take way 3 words from his interview.... that says it all to me , call it a subtle foreshadowing...... " dont expect much" .....BAM there it is folks, you heard it first here ......next gen madden , dont expect much....

That's about what I'm expecting....."Not much".

# 52 Gotmadskillzson @ 10/17/13 03:36 PM

So basically, to sum up this podcast, Madden 25 next gen is a game you have to play to notice the difference between current gen. That is pretty much what Vic Lugo said over and over again. Seems like every year EA is revamping locomotion. They said before 09, 10, 11, 12, 13, current gen Madden 25 and now next gen Madden 25 there is a brand new locomotion engine that better handles acceleration and cuts. So basically next gen Madden 25 will have precision modifier 2.0 and infinity engine 3.0

That pretty much sums it up. Yeah it will look the same, but it will feel different in your hands with precision modifier 2.0 and infinity engine 3.0. But I guess calling infinity engine 3.0 the Ignite Engine sound more cooler and flashier.

# 53 stmark @ 10/17/13 03:54 PM

Ha at graphics won't take a great leap ..The madden team and Ea need to go look at 2k smh. These guys must think we are idiots

# 54 Lexicon @ 10/17/13 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by royounggoku


	Lol I'm all for good debates but you're flat out wrong

I figured I couldn't get through a thread without this happening here.

Anyway, I've gotten my two cents in. I look forward to testing out some new mechanics.

# 55 roadman @ 10/17/13 04:38 PM

I could give a rat's rear about graphics, always have, always will. Heck, I played HH baseball on the PC with burned out faces and ugly staduims and all, but it was all about the game play.

And HH rocked with game play.

I need to see video of movement and AI, plain and simple.

# 56 dghustla @ 10/17/13 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gotmadskillzson


	So basically, to sum up this podcast, Madden 25 next gen is a game you have to play to notice the difference between current gen. That is pretty much what Vic Lugo said over and over again. Seems like every year EA is revamping locomotion. They said before 09, 10, 11, 12, 13, current gen Madden 25 and now next gen Madden 25 there is a brand new locomotion engine that better handles acceleration and cuts. So basically next gen Madden 25 will have precision modifier 2.0 and infinity engine 3.0 That pretty much sums it up. Yeah it will look the same, but it will feel different in your hands with precision modifier 2.0 and infinity engine 3.0. But I guess calling infinity engine 3.0 the Ignite Engine sound more cooler and flashier.

Here is why EA can't ever win. As you mentioned they've revamped locomotion several times in an attempt to get it right and more realistic. You didn't like any of the previous editions, shouldn't you be happy they are trying again?

Now I understand your frustrations how many times before it's "right"? And every time they have to fix locomotion they can't fix say the passing engine. I'd like to see them get these things right the first time but at least they recognize they aren't working properly.

# 57 radatdude2 @ 10/17/13 05:15 PM

bottom line is madden needs graphical updates and is in desperate need of game play updates going into next gen, other games not so much of the game play updates required. Because how much room is there to improve on an already good game from a game play perspective. example fifa and that basketball title by some other developer.

# 58 TerryP @ 10/17/13 05:18 PM

26 days to release, and dev indicated the game is finished, just doesn't give me a good feeling when we can't see any actual gameplay videos. What he said sure sounded good though.

# 59 Gjordan @ 10/17/13 05:24 PM

I don't buy any of it! I've been playing madden since 89'. No doubt they've had some good games over the years and that's all been discussed on here before, but I have been sick of the junk they have produced over the last 6 years and expect us to stomach it as a good game of football. This is a new console with so much more power! It should be noticeable in "every area of the game", not just graphics or gameplay or physics. All of it should be soooo much better. It's already been mentioned, but at a time when we should all be drooling over graphics and gameplay, most of us are bitterly contemplating canceling our orders. This game should not just feel like another year to year update. That is sad fellas. You know when JP can't find anything good to say....... That's sad.

EA is a corporation that is trying to sell us a "yard stick" if you will. While most company's are selling it to you "2 to 3 inches at a time, their selling an 1/8th of an inch at a time.

But then again we all know why there able to do that, don't we?

# 60 Gotmadskillzson @ 10/17/13 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dghustla


	Here is why EA can't ever win. As you mentioned they've revamped locomotion several times in an attempt to get it right and more realistic. You didn't like any of the previous editions, shouldn't you be happy they are trying again? Now I understand your frustrations how many times before it's "right"? And every time they have to fix locomotion they can't fix say the passing engine. I'd like to see them get these things right the first time but at least they recognize they aren't working properly.

Don't know how you assumed that from what I wrote. I quite enjoy current gen Madden 25. Hell I enjoyed Madden 13 as well.

With that said, EA's pattern every year is that they say something is fixed and changed, then a year or two later say the thing they said in the past was fixed, was really not fixed, but hey, we just fixed it NOW. Then come next year they will say hey true step really didn't fix anything, but Madden 15 is totally fixed and reinvented, we flew in a team from Sweden who can crack nuclear atoms in their sleep, they are now in charge of physics. Then we hired a hall of fame Running Back, he will be in charged of ball carrier game play.

So the problem never was they don't recognize something isn't right, they always do, just a year later when they want people to buy their new game. When the game is currently out, they don't address things like they should with tuners, that is the problem. Instead of fixing little things here and there throughout the year of a current game, they instead want tackle 15 things at once with just one massive patch, that always end up messing else up. Then they will say, well, our massive sledge hammer approach didn't work, oh well, we moved to working on next year's game, we will TRY to address it then in next year's game.

Less sledge hammer approach, more surgical precision is needed. The way EA handles thing is like the following:

A person get shot in the arm, instead of just taking the bullet out the arm, EA just chops the whole arm off and says oops, I will just create you an artificial arm for you instead.

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