Madden NFL 17 News Post

Madden NFL 17 Defensive Gaps, Alignment, Assignment, Technique, Blocking & Much More

06:02 PM - May 18, 2016 by Steve_OS

Another Madden NFL 17 blog has just arrived going over defensive gaps, run fits and so much more. This one is filled with great information.

Let's go over a bit:

Quote:


	"When implementing the run fits system, we installed it the same way the defensive coordinators install their defenses in the NFL � Alignment, Assignment and Technique � and what this amounts to is every defender on the field having a specific job to do on each play the user calls."

This is a much needed change in the series. For too long we've called defensive plays like they're offensive plays -- which was completely inaccurate. To be moving in a more sim direction is always welcome, especially in an area most every football game hasn't been close to right on since the dawn of gaming.

Quote:


	"The AI will automatically flip your defense when the offense flips so that your defense aligns to the proper strength in relation to the offensive formation they are seeing after the huddle break. When your defense has been flipped, you will see visual feedback in the Score HUD to tell you that your defense has been flipped, as well as what part of the defense was flipped (Entire defense, Coverage, Front)."

This is a nice touch and completely awesome (and much welcome).

Quote:


	"The next step in the Run-Fits system is Defensive Gap assignments. All defenders, both in the NFL and Madden 17 have a specific responsibility on each play � this includes gap integrity for �run-fit� defenders and coverage responsibility plus run-support for coverage defenders � making the play-calling experience more engaging and strategy-based than in previous iterations. "

This is a great layer that, when combined with the previous assignment/flip options makes for a compelling layer of defensive strategy that you must go into. Compare this to previously calling a play and hot routing defensive players and you can instantly see why this is a huge upgrade.

Quote:


	"Just because a defender is assigned to a gap pre-snap doesn�t mean he�s locked to that gap for the remainder of the play. Each defender has AI that allows him to update his gap and react to the war in the trenches to fill the open lanes created by the blockers as the play develops. This AI relies heavily on the Play Recognition Rating. Based on the PRC rating, defenders will be faster or slower in reading the play and finding the right gap to fill."

I'm not 100% certain how this will fully play out, but it sounds promising and certainly deeper than what we've seen out of Madden when it comes to line play over the past several years. The PRC rating sounds like a nice touch and addition.

For more information on Madden's defensive improvements, including techniques as well as improvements to blocking, check out the full blog post at the link.

Source - Madden 17 Gameplay Deep Dive - Defensive Gaps and Run Fits

Game: Madden NFL 17Reader Score: 8/10 - Vote Now
Platform: PS3 / PS4 / Xbox 360 / Xbox OneVotes for game: 17 - View All

Member Comments

# 121 ggsimmonds @ 05/20/16 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sebennayx


	I get the distinct impression they would have to effectively rewrite the entire code not only behind the positions themselves, but also the play design, team and position scheme breakdowns, potentially even player traits given new positions, etc. It seems this would be no small feat. All are needed at some point anyway to take the game to the next level, so given the direction they're going that may end up being a focus for 18...fingers crossed!

They would not have to rewrite most of the code. It is not drastically different from telling the nickel corner to line up on the correct side or telling the strong safety that has flat assignment in a cover 3 to line up on the correct side.

# 122 Playmakers @ 05/20/16 07:27 PM

I think it's awesome that they are giving certain ratings much more impact on the game....

For example PRC in years past never really separated players....but then again awareness also played a huge role.

It will be interesting to see EA handles awareness (rating) on defense vs PRC (Rating)

I could edit a guy in previous versions of Madden with 99 awareness and 0 PRC and he would still react to the play like Ray Lewis or Mike Singletary

# 123 Playmakers @ 05/20/16 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SolidSquid


	Well there auto option for flip play so I assume they can use it

I think he has a valid question

in years past the CPU either couldn't or wouldn't do things the Human controlled player utilized...

That involves both offensive and defensive adjustments and special moves being performed on the field.

# 124 sebennayx @ 05/20/16 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ggsimmonds


	They would not have to rewrite most of the code. It is not drastically different from telling the nickel corner to line up on the correct side or telling the strong safety that has flat assignment in a cover 3 to line up on the correct side.

You're right, I should have chosen my words more carefully, rewrite was not what I meant.

It would take significantly more then many think to add this functionality in. My other point stands, in that it affects more areas than just where the LB lines up when the play starts. Depth Chart revamp, Position and Coach Scheme inclusion, Playbooks and Packages, etc. Were it an easy inclusion, given the importance to the new gap play additions and the strive toward a more authentic football simulation, they'd have added it in.

# 125 Gotmadskillzson @ 05/20/16 07:39 PM

That is the trillion dollar question. Can and will the CPU AI use all these new abilities and features. For a person who plays offline 99% of the time it is a huge deal for me.

# 126 ggsimmonds @ 05/20/16 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sebennayx


	You're right, I should have chosen my words more carefully, rewrite was not what I meant. It would take significantly more then many think to add this functionality in. My other point stands, in that it affects more areas than just where the LB lines up when the play starts. Depth Chart revamp, Position and Coach Scheme inclusion, Playbooks and Packages, etc. Were it an easy inclusion, given the importance to the new gap play additions and the strive toward a more authentic football simulation, they'd have added it in.

I don't think it takes more than people like me think to get it added into the game. Most of the people making this request tend to be more knowledgeable in football than the general crowd. It is not something that is easy to add in (I would think formation subs would be easier than this), but it certainly is doable.

The reason it is not in, is simply because the payoff does not justify the time that would go into it. Not everyone runs a defense that is helped by Sam/Will having different skill sets. Of those that do, not all of them care much about aligning them correctly. I represent a very small minority that runs a defense that needs it, and cares enough about it to really want it in the game.

What is comparatively easy to add and would give me the warm fuzzies, is a "LB flip" presnap adjustment.

# 127 Playmakers @ 05/20/16 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by khaliib


	Is there a mechanism in play that "mandates" such defensive players such as Watt, Sue, Miller, Mack etc... be blocked by more than one player? I believe this is that "special ingredient" that's missing with the player differentiation everyone is looking for during their gameplay experience. Whether controlled by the AI or Hum player, these type of players don't force gamers to have to account for them Even better is the AI having awareness to match its best DL/LB's against the weak areas of an OL and attack it to force the gamer to altar/change their gameplan. Really making these type of guys special and hard to come by (unless you choose the team they're already on) would really add to all areas of the game.

Surprised no one has responded to this post......

This has been the biggest issue for years no player separation in Madden because they all tend to have close ratings across the board..

I mean if a guy has 88 block shed and another guy has 68 block shed how much of a difference are we suppose to see on the field amongst the players (EA has never truly explained how the ratings are suppose to separate defenders).

So I'm interested in this new approach will Denver LB's play off the charts and much different as per say a weaker LB unit.

# 128 sebennayx @ 05/20/16 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ggsimmonds


	I don't think it takes more than people like me think to get it added into the game. Most of the people making this request tend to be more knowledgeable in football than the general crowd. It is not something that is easy to add in (I would think formation subs would be easier than this), but it certainly is doable. The reason it is not in, is simply because the payoff does not justify the time that would go into it. Not everyone runs a defense that is helped by Sam/Will having different skill sets. Of those that do, not all of them care much about aligning them correctly. I represent a very small minority that runs a defense that needs it, and cares enough about it to really want it in the game. What is comparatively easy to add and would give me the warm fuzzies, is a "LB flip" presnap adjustment.

Were saying the same thing. I'm not saying it's not "doable". I'm saying the amount of time and resources involved was likely too much to get out in this iteration...sounds like you're agreeing with me.

I'd dig a "LB flip" adjustment, if it correctly swapped the LB gap responsibilities too, which unless I misunderstood Clint/Rex, was not possible for this iteration.

# 129 OhMrHanky @ 05/21/16 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big FN Deal


	True and that goes hand in hand, imo, with the lack of animation differential to actually represent each ratings grouping. Actually the animation issue is the more needed of the two because even with the small ratings differential, if a 68 and a 70 had access to different animations, that would be a solid start. That said, they seem to at least be claiming to adopt that philosophy for ball carriers, so hopefully that's a sign of more to come across the board. ( I noticed Gotmadskillzson has posted ITT and I always think about that in-depth thread/post he made awhile back on that very topic. Hopefully that thing is bookmarked or hanging up at Tiburon somewhere. http://www.operationsports.com/forum...hand-hand.html)

This doesn't directly tie into this, but had to share a madden memory. Lol. Because this article talks of how all players are basically the same due to animations. I remember playing a franchise in an old madden, maybe 6. And, I'm playing against the Eagles. After a couple of defensive plays, it becomes apparent to me that have a midget playing LT. So, I take a closer look at things. Turns out they had MASSIVE injuries to Oline, overall, so they turned to using their PK as LT!!! Lol. Sh*t u not, man. Funniest thing I've ever seen in madden. David Akers lined up against my DE. So, of course, I'm thinking, 'alright. I should get about 30 sacks this game.' Lol. NOPE. Again, this doesn't have to do with the animations so much as the overall 'ratings don't matter' much. I would watch replay of every play and just watch little Akers OWN my DE!! Lol. Oh, silly madden, those were the days.

# 130 ggsimmonds @ 05/21/16 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sebennayx


	Were saying the same thing. I'm not saying it's not "doable". I'm saying the amount of time and resources involved was likely too much to get out in this iteration...sounds like you're agreeing with me. I'd dig a "LB flip" adjustment, if it correctly swapped the LB gap responsibilities too, which unless I misunderstood Clint/Rex, was not possible for this iteration.

Not at all...you are agreeing with ME.

The LB flip should be possible. Clint and Rex said that assignments do not update dynamically, e.g. if you shift the line it does not change the original assignments. That is different from telling two guys to swap assignments/positions.
Still don't expect to see it make it in the game though.

# 131 reyes the roof @ 05/21/16 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SolidSquid


	SAMs and WILLs didn't make it in, Rex said it would be too much to program, but I know a certain game that had it 12 years ago. Hopefully they plan on adding it next year bc it's a big deal to me (I run a 4-3 defense) since SAMs and wills have different responsibilities that require different skill sets.

Based on their reasoning for not doing it, a good solution would be to have a "flip position" type of option pre play. Select it on an OLB and he switches with the other OLB, select it on a safety and the free safety and strong safety swap, or let us customize who gets flipped so that with one selection you can flip OLBs, safeties, and whichever other positions you choose to flip

# 132 IlluminatusUIUC @ 05/22/16 02:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MajorSupreme


	Darn! It seemed like the perfect complement to the in-depth defensive upgrades. Quite a letdown, really. I mean, you always want your best player covering the opponent's best player. Seems rough. And this does not make hopeful for formation subs in CFM...

Actually the Pats often do the exact opposite: They take their best cover guy and put him on the #2, alone, so they can throw two lesser players at the #1 on every play.

# 133 jfsolo @ 05/22/16 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IlluminatusUIUC


	Actually the Pats often do the exact opposite: They take their best cover guy and put him on the #2, alone, so they can throw two lesser players at the #1 on every play.

I personally like this scheme better, than #1 on number #1, but obviously the option to do both should be in the game eventually.

# 134 GoJags904 @ 05/25/16 04:15 AM

Every team has an exotic package of sorts. My Jags run a 4-3 Under and Nickel(sometimes custom) primarily so Sam and Will are BIG. We have alot of other creative packages that Formation Subs and correct player ratings tied to positions would fix. I buy Madden every year because i just do, but i hate how bland the Defensive Structure is.

Just give us F.Subs and Custom Packages while tweaking Defensive Assignments and adding team/coach scheme specific Traits/ratings for all positions and I'm in HEAVEN.

# 135 undrafted @ 05/25/16 09:48 AM

The defensive blog for Madden 17 made me reflect on just how many different concepts are tied to each and every single defensive play, without me ever noticing them due to sheer ignorance.

So, the intent of introducing many new defensive concepts in the game is surely commendable by itself (and their presentation seems functional enough to me).
Anyway, as far as their effectiveness (and player engagement) is concerned, I'm afraid it will be the animations to "make or break it".

I also think that at this level of complexity it would be mostly useful to have a dedicated audio channel for a defensive coordinator to provide feedback to the player, pointing out defensive roles/mismatches/concepts... (I remember Madden 11 having a coordinator introducing each snap with a brief analysis of the situation, but it felt quite scripted and not so in-depth as it would be needed to be now).

So far what I fear the most is an interface overload: judging by these first blogs on Madden 17, it seems like the player will have quite a few things to spot on the screen at any moment, both on offense and defense (indicators/cones/icons/hints/feedback)... I just hope it won't be too much.

# 136 dfresh2 @ 07/20/16 09:10 PM

Anyone know anything melt defensive assignments? As far as putting your star receiver in the slot and being able to match up your number one corner against them?

# 137 OhMrHanky @ 07/20/16 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dfresh2


	Anyone know anything melt defensive assignments? As far as putting your star receiver in the slot and being able to match up your number one corner against them?

Not in M17. They want it. I recall them mentioning as they tried to add it, it conflicted with (or didn't quite work) with their other defensive system(s). Something about hot routing and auto flipping, maybe. Either way, I guess the short story, they tried, it was too complicated for this year, but it is something they want to get back in the game.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

# 138 feeq14 @ 07/22/16 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OhMrHanky


	Not in M17. They want it. I recall them mentioning as they tried to add it, it conflicted with (or didn't quite work) with their other defensive system(s). Something about hot routing and auto flipping, maybe. Either way, I guess the short story, they tried, it was too complicated for this year, but it is something they want to get back in the game. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The way it sounds, they might patch it in earlyish, like the second big patch we usually get round october

# 139 jfsolo @ 07/22/16 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by feeq14


	The way it sounds, they might patch it in earlyish, like the second big patch we usually get round october

I think that it's a mistake to expect the #1 vs #1 to be implemented in Madden 17 at all. Formation subs, maybe, but they haven't given any indication that best on best is something that might make in this year.

# 140 PaPZ187 @ 07/22/16 01:53 PM

Man formation subs and corner match ups feel like huge upgrades if we ever get them......then I remember these were standard options years ago in Madden....WTF

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