Madden 10: AskMadden Tip of the Week - Strategy Guide

Strategy Guide

Madden 10: AskMadden Tip of the Week

Submitted on: 11/19/2009 by AskMadden

Madden has always mirrored the NFL. In this week's tip, we look at what the Philadelphia Eagles have to take into account if they want to be successful passing the ball. This logic goes hand-in-hand with the Madden football series.

Bottom line, fast receivers are only a threat when they have space to use their speed. To overcome physical corners as well as inexperience, we hit practice mode to demonstrate how the Eagles in the NFL, as well as teams with undersized receivers in Madden, get open space for their playmakers to create big plays.

Madden NFL 10 Videos

Member Comments

# 61 RyanMoody21 @ 11/22/09 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dfos81


	Now imo this(video) is just a good tip to beat those guys that like to abuse the global BnR D. I don't see this tip being a glitch at all. I guess if the cpu A.I. called the global BnR every play and this same thing happened on every play, then I would consider it a glitch. But thats not the case. So I don't.

Again, its got nothing to do with "global BnR", and everything to do with setting your hot routes to insure the WR at the line runs right into the DB. Watch the video, Woodson is playing 10 yards off the line, thats hardly press coverage.

Watching the video again, you might wanna notice that Jackson is open on the Post and the Slant when covered by Al Harris.

Your admitting that if a guys calls BnR coverage, you would use this to beat it because you think the games BnR animations are glitchy. Therefore this makes it ok for you to set up a glitch play in return, that turn about is fair play.

Again, the problem is in this example, your not doing this against press coverage. Which is exactaly why when I labbed this against different defenders. Its the routes being run that set the pick, its got nothing to do with the DB.

I suppose what we have here is the age old debate of what "Madden Ball" has become. I guess some of you feel hot routing your players to run into defenders to get your guys open is strategy or makes you a better or smarter player than your opponent. However, some argue (like myself) that when you modify a play where you get a pre determined result, then your just cheating.

Thats the difference between real NFL strategy and "stick skills". On Sunday, not one NFL coach can call an offensive play and be 100% certain of a positive outcome, right down to the WR who will get open. In Madden, specifically with this play, thats just not the case. There is zero strategy in knowing the outcome of a play before you call it.

# 62 Valdarez @ 11/22/09 01:01 PM

The thing you fail to point out in your response is that the a screen is not a glitch, it's a legit play as are all of the other examples I provided which you failed to use in your response. In those examples, I'm using a legit offensive play to break a legit defensive play, where as you want to use an exploitative offensive play to break a legit defensive play. Those are two completely separate things.

So you're saying a NFL coach wouldn't call BnR every time if the offense had trouble with it? Or if he were facing a team that couldn't get off the bump? Sure he would. He'd use it to dominant the team.

Are you saying there's no legit way to beat BnR coverage? That you have to resort to a glitch? I don't play online, but I can't believe this tip is the only way to beat BnR coverage in Madden.

Can some of the Madden experts on the board explain the proper way to beat BnR in Madden?

# 63 Valdarez @ 11/22/09 01:11 PM

What are the other ways that you know how to beat it dfos81?

# 64 RogueHominid @ 11/22/09 01:41 PM

I don't see a problem with it.

I do know that there are some receivers you really don't want to bump, so there's a built-in, ratings-dependent thing to help deal.

I like the motion routes that eliminate the possibility of the bump (my playbook has a few of them). Wheel routes from the inside of the formation can sometimes come wide open with the playcall as-is, and with a good throw can leave BNR hurting.

And I like bunch sets because of the rubs they can create. There are some nice ones that require no hot routing.

And the ones that create illegal contact, I don't really have a problem with that either. I've seen my WR/TE get bumped and made to stumble by LBz in a zone beyond the 5 yard marker, and I look at it as an evening out.

I think the best way to avoid the needless back and forth between the same three people is to have the people who have super strident convictions about what should/should not be done just write their own manual/gameplay guide, post a link to it, and leave it at that. That way, people who want to be told how to play to make someone else happy know where to look.

# 65 RyanMoody21 @ 11/22/09 01:54 PM

Or you could sum it up with sportsmanship. Just because you dont like how the game animates, shouldn't give you the green light to hot route your players to intentionally cause a DB to run into him.

At the end of the day, regardless of our personal opinions the most important opinion is that of the person this strategy is being used against. If you guys wanna play like this and win games using it, feel free. However, you might wanna stop short of claiming superior football knowledge, playing calling, or "stick skills" over another person after winning games like that.

# 66 kehlis @ 11/22/09 01:58 PM

Out of curiosity, what does it mean to "lab" a game?

# 67 Valdarez @ 11/22/09 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Autumn Wind


	I think the best way to avoid the needless back and forth between the same three people is to have the people who have super strident convictions about what should/should not be done just write their own manual/gameplay guide, post a link to it, and leave it at that. That way, people who want to be told how to play to make someone else happy know where to look.

No one has told anyone how to play the game, the only thing we have discussed is whether it's an exploit or not. No need to make stuff up Autumn Wind.

# 68 RyanMoody21 @ 11/22/09 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kehlis


	Out of curiosity, what does it mean to "lab" a game?

Well, to me it means to go into the practice mode and exhaust all possible scenarios until you have a firm grasp of the results of a given play.

# 69 Valdarez @ 11/22/09 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kehlis


	Out of curiosity, what does it mean to "lab" a game?

When someone says lab, they basically mean testing it out, typically under varying conditions to determine the problems and effectiveness / ineffectiveness of the play, or perhaps to discover how to stop a particular play.

# 70 RyanMoody21 @ 11/22/09 08:06 PM

I honestly would like to know how you would feel if you got beat via this. What if somebody did this to you each time to march down the field?

Please dont simply coat that with "I would manually defend the passes each time." If you want to claim your that good in this game, then clearly you wouldn't need any assistance in getting pass completions.

Have you done any labbing to find this isnt a direct result of the hot routing?

# 71 RyanMoody21 @ 11/22/09 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dfos81


	They wouldn't b/c I wouldn't pick Man BnR coverage the whole time. Simple as that. If you don't like hot-routing, maybe post your thoughts about that in the Madden Gripe thread.

Honestly, is this maybe the 5th time I have posted this? That play is NOT using bump and run coverage. Woodson is 10 yards off Jackson.

Its clear, by your 2nd post above, you have done nothing to look into this. You cant even accurately look at the video in question.

Are you denying that Jackson is open on the post and slant when covered by Al Harris in the opening of the video?

Are you saying that playing 10 yards off is considered press coverage?

All you have done is constantly defend this tactic of game play as fair and acceptable. Now, when questioned about how you would feel about it being used against you, you simply say "well I dont use press coverage, so it never would". With total disregard to the fact this isnt press coverage and I have personally replicated this play with other DB's.

So after all this defending of yourself, your requesting this get merged with the Madden Gripes thread. Are you honestly going to make a case that the practice and game modes play totally different, as if the code isn't the same?

Im not going to make a video for you (as you eluded) to show you this working. Because its clear no matter what you see, you will feel this what EA put in the game to replicate picks in the NFL.

# 72 RyanMoody21 @ 11/22/09 09:43 PM

Maybe we just arent looking at the same thing.

Press Coverage being used.

0:10 - 0:12 - On a Post, Jackson has a full step on Al Harris. I consider that open.

0:44 - 0:49 - On a slant, Jackson has a half step, and is clearly faster than Al Harris. Provided you lead the WR, I consider that open.

Press Coverage is NOT being used.

1:17 - 1:20 - Charles Woodson is now covering Jackson and lines up a full 5 yards off of him. Not once does he make contact with him. A hot route is made so that the slot WR (who is actually a HB) makes contact with Woodson as he moves down to cover his man.

My last post was my error, unlike prior posts where I said 5 yards, for some reason I said 10. Not sure why, maybe the repetitiveness of this is driving me nuts.

Im done posting in this, I know you said this several posts ago and never held firm, but I will.

Its clear, you think this is a fair way to win games. You also seem to think the practice modes run off a different AI than the rest of the game. You just wanna sit here and tell everybody what you THINK the game would do, having admitted to not spending the 15 minutes to go into the game and see for yourself.

As I said before, you seem to be very high on your Madden skills. I would think that you wouldn't need a cheap play like this to move the ball down the field. If you need to rely on plays like this to beat other people, and defend it so harshly, that tells me all I need to know.

# 73 Valdarez @ 11/22/09 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RMoody


	As I said before, you seem to be very high on your Madden skills.

I question that assessment. I asked for him to provide other ways of beating BnR in Madden and he didn't provide one and yet he dismisses actual testing of the play when it's clear he hasn't tested it himself.

# 74 KBLover @ 11/23/09 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dfos81


	BTW most sim leagues(ie. 40nick) won't let you Global BnR every play, they consider it cheese as well or let you use Bunch sets every play.

What?

Bump and Run coverage is cheese?

What ISN'T cheese? I mean, seriously. It's like everything is starting to be considered "cheese".

# 75 Valdarez @ 11/23/09 12:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KBLover


	What? Bump and Run coverage is cheese? What ISN'T cheese? I mean, seriously. It's like everything is starting to be considered "cheese".

I haven't played in a Madden Sim league, but I imagine they just want folks to mix things up on both offense and defense so you have a more dynamic game.

# 76 MAHAM @ 11/23/09 01:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RMoody


	Clearly I "get it", after all you just rewrote what I had already posted and added "I dont understand what you dont get" infront of it. Setting a pick has got nothing to do with routing your players to cause a DB to run directly into another player at the snap of the ball. Woodson isnt even close enough to jam Jackson, the pick is set only by the hot routing. I just told you, from my own experimenting this works with speed DB's just as well. The only times it wont work is if you change the routes to prevent the overlapping. Im not sure what playing in game or in practice changes. In theroy players should recat the same in either mode.

Practice mode against man D, what play doesn't work in practice vs Man D? I play more practice mode than actual gameplay and it doesn't translate.

I have watched the video over and over, and at the 1:20 mark you obviously see Woodson stepping up to bump a reciever who's lined OFF(OFF)OFF the line of scrimmage.

If the reciever was on the line, he would be jammed.

The player running into him is running his route and Woodson gets in the way, not the other around. I ask again, what don't you get about that? That's what should happen.

There is nothing cheesy about it.

Man defense is the weakest defense in football, don't expect miracle coverage.

# 77 MAHAM @ 11/23/09 01:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valdarez


	I question that assessment. I asked for him to provide other ways of beating BnR in Madden and he didn't provide one and yet he dismisses actual testing of the play when it's clear he hasn't tested it himself.

I know you didn't ask me, but there are plenty of ways to beat BnR man. I'll give you a few examples: doublemoves, HB slip screen, hiking a player in motion, PA passes, pumpfakes, throwing to the flats, using RB's out of the backfield, and my favorite- any levels-type play.

# 78 Valdarez @ 11/23/09 02:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MAHAM


	I know you didn't ask me, but there are plenty of ways to beat BnR man. I'll give you a few examples: doublemoves, HB slip screen, hiking a player in motion, PA passes, pumpfakes, throwing to the flats, using RB's out of the backfield, and my favorite- any levels-type play.

Hmmm... that looks oddly familiar.

And these all work in Madden 10?

# 79 MAHAM @ 11/23/09 03:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valdarez


	Hmmm... that looks oddly familiar. And these all work in Madden 10?

All the stuff I listed worked on alot of the old Maddens just like on 10. Doublemoves used to be my bread and butter with the Colts, though this year against a good bump corner they seem a little too slow to develop, but they still work. Another play I use is the stretch, the bump sometimes puts the WR in position to make a good block which prevents the corner from sealing the edge fast enough. I re-read through the thread and saw that you wrote some of the same stuff, good tips.

# 80 MAHAM @ 11/23/09 06:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RMoody


	Im not sure what playing in game or in practice changes. In theroy players should recat the same in either mode.

In practice mode, the defense doesnt shift and adjust.

Lets say you call a run from I form Big with 2 TE's stacked on one side of the line.

In a game, the defense shifts to that side, if you flip the run, they shift again.

In practice mode, you can be stacked on one side and it doesn't matter, the defense doesnt shift. The defensive line stays stationary making a run to the strong side easy to execute.

The cornerbacks always adjust the exact same way too. Lets use the Big set as an example again.

We know there is only 1 WR out wide on a big set. Lets say the defense is in cover 2. The CB always lines up inside if there is no WR outside, zone or man, it doesn't matter.

There is no disguising, adjusting, freezing the D, or defenses calling audibles in practice mode.

That means practice mode is easy, predictable, and getting the same results becomes highly likely.

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