OS Roundtable: Where does EA Football Stand at the End of This Generation?

Feature Article

Submitted on: 09/03/2013 by Chris Sanner, Jayson Young, Matthew Coe, Robert Kollars

With this generation coming to a close, where does EA Football (NCAA Football and Madden) stand as we prepare to see the first next-gen football games? Do you think both games are behind the curve or are they in a position of strength heading into the new generation? Sound off!

Jayson Young: If we compare EA Tiburon's performance this generation to that of a football team, Madden NFL 06 was the equivalent of fumbling the opening kickoff and getting tackled on your own one-yard line.

After three straight incompletions, Madden NFL 10 was a miraculous fourth down conversion on par with Donovan McNabb to Freddie Mitchell in the Eagles' famous "fourth and twenty-six."

The very next play, Madden NFL 11, featured major locomotion changes which enabled zig-zag running and broke Madden's gameplay balance, making Madden NFL 11 comparable to a botched Barry Sanders run which loses a dozen yards zig-zagging in the backfield.

Madden NFL 12 and Madden NFL 13 were minimal gains, serving little purpose beyond setting up the inevitable coffin corner punt that is Madden NFL 25.

The next generation of Madden stands ready to return EA Tiburon's punt. Madden NFL 25 on PlayStation 4 and Xbox One takes the field this November, facing another long drive that will begin with lousy field position, backed up against its own end zone.

NCAA was good but not great this prior generation.

Matthew Coe: This is a little unexpected for me to be honest. I had higher hopes and a higher level of confidence that Madden NFL 25 would deliver on XBOX 360 and PS3. The game (and series) has unfortunately missed the mark in my opinion.

EA Sports is dealing not from a position of strength going into the next-generation, but instead from a position of "prove it". There was a time when I was beginning to get excited about a PS 4/Xbox One Madden. After reading about a fully featured next-gen Madden NFL 25 with the improvements to AI and blocking that should be possible on the next consoles, I was beginning to sell myself on the idea of major improvement.

But after playing both the demo and the full version of Madden NFL 25 on XBOX 360, I'm more convinced than ever that we're not going to get a drastically changed experience due to the limitations created by the way that EA Sports views professional football. Actually, there are two things which bother me. The technical limitations of the Tiburon engine which currently exists and the lack of an "Everything you see on Sunday" vision which once existed in the game.

I'd agree with many critical sentiments which say this generation of Madden peaked with Madden NFL 10. Since then we've lost a lot of presentation elements, fight for the fumble, pro-tak, and numerous other little things. It feels like we've regressed in this generation and I don't see how Madden NFL 25 puts EA Sports in the position to sell gamers on the PS4 and Xbox One experience for the same game.

I'm heading into November more skeptical than I've been at any point. That doesn't bode well for how the just released Madden NFL 25 has negatively affected perception of the brand and the excitement for the game. The onus is clearly on EA Sports to prove to me that come November, things will be VERY different.

Robert Kollars: EA stands on somewhat shaky ground as we close this generation, but with no competition currently does it really matter?

I'm not a Madden or NCAA hater, I actually enjoy each title for what they are - a fun game of digital football, but neither title is a true simulation of the sport. I purchase each game every year and I have a realistic mindset and level of expectation when doing so, and that is why I can find enjoyment in playing them.

I am willing to overlook this whole generation of football, and chalk it up to a bad engine and poor design decisions early on. My hope is that with the supposed ease of developing on the upcoming generation of consoles, we will see quite an improvement and some corrections to the glaring issues each title is dealing with in their current state.

The clock will start ticking on EA starting in November when Madden comes out for the PS4 and and Xbox one. While there is no other alternative option for fans of football to currently turn to, it could mean they will simply stop turning towards their wallet to purchase either title. The upgraded graphical enhancements may be enough to get by in year one on the next generation of consoles - for the masses at least. However EA share-holders could be in for a financial shock in year two if the same problems plague each game again.

The next-gen football games will have to be better, there is no doubt about that.

Chris Sanner: Both Madden and NCAA Football had interesting tales this generation of consoles. NCAA ended up staying in a consistent area where it teetered on greatness but never quite got there, all while managing to innovate in a huge way with Online Dynasty.

Madden, on the other hand, started off so poorly, it has been trying to play catch up for the past few years. It didn't help big features were introduced one year and then almost completely taken out of the game the next -- consumers aren't stupid and saw a lack of vision for the game long term.

The past several years, it felt like EA has gotten their stuff together with some real direction and vision for the products. Things still aren't perfect, as the EA Football engine does have long-time nagging legacy issues -- but both NCAA and Madden are still far and away the best playing football games on the market.

Of course it also helps being the only major licensed football games on the market as well.

There are plenty of areas of improvement for next gen, but both series have a chance to take the next step on the next-generation of consoles. I'm not expecting an effort to knock things out of the park out of the gate -- no launch titles do that. But solid leaps forward in most every aspect is far from too much to ask on a football launch title.

Madden NFL 25 Videos

Member Comments

# 21 GisherJohn24 @ 09/05/13 09:45 AM

Madden 10 was the biggest step up for hte series and since then, it hasn't evolved like it should have when you compare 10 to 11, 12, or even 13. The infinity engine was a nice edition, but the removal of things year after yeear upsets me. Removal of 7-9 gang tackling? Pro Tak, foot planting, weapons, NFL Films music, halftime show, (which was in 10) just little things that should have stuck with the series, it's best parts were removed.

# 22 Jistic @ 09/05/13 01:30 PM

I always laugh at the people that "enjoy a game for what it is". I hope they could do the same thing eating their entree from a restaurant that was covered with mold and wiped on the bathroom floor. Hey...enjoy it for what it is!

# 23 CarryTheWeight @ 09/05/13 05:19 PM

Wasted potential and maddening inconsistency (pardon the pun) have made this generation of EA football extremely hard to stomach. Instead of improving on ideas in previous games, the development team most closely resembles the Buffalo Bills as they struggle to scrap and rebuild themselves far too often. Like the Bills, EA Tiburon seems to be clinging to past successes and promising innovation but falling short nearly every time in spite of selling boatloads of copies.

It's a shame considering EA's own FIFA and NHL, imperfect as they are, can be seen as technically superior and more faithful representations of their respective sports. For a product that prides itself on being "the most authentic football series ever produced", Madden falls short of authenticity in many key areas. The fact we have a huge Uniform Error Thread in the Madden and NCAA forums says it all: there's a fundamental lack of attention to detail in each series, and it doesn't only pertain to the art department.

I'll be a bit lenient on next-gen M25 considering it's a launch title. However, if next-gen Madden 15 (or whatever it'll be called) isn't a fundamental leap forward for this franchise, I and many others are going to be very disappointed. The last-generation cutscene-based presentation and spotty commentary track isn't going to cut it any further, neither will the canned animations and lack of detail in graphical fidelity.

The way I see it, fans have every right to be skeptical and write off the Ignite engine as "buzzwords" at this point. We haven't seen anything to tell us otherwise. Even the off-screen Gamescom FIFA 14 footage, while looking a bit more flashy, doesn't look like the gigantic leap forward that was promised (at least in respect to its competition).

I'm hoping to eventually eat crow and see a gigantic improvement reminiscent of Madden 2001 on PS2, but I will remain skeptical until then. If all we're going to see on next-gen are the little details that other development teams have already done in older games (hint: the interactive sidelines in APF2008) then count me less than impressed.

They have a huge opportunity to sell the new consoles and blow people away with a "killer app". We'll see if they aim for the greatness of Madden 2001 or sink to the depths of Madden 06 in a few short months.

# 24 Armor and Sword @ 09/05/13 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jistic


	I always laugh at the people that "enjoy a game for what it is". I hope they could do the same thing eating their entree from a restaurant that was covered with mold and wiped on the bathroom floor. Hey...enjoy it for what it is!

I can go to 100's of different eating establishments.

We only have 2 football games...both made by EA.

And we don't have a choice....and it is out of our control.

If you don't like the game...don't buy it. I like it. So I buy it.

I enjoy it for what it is....cause it is all we have right now and for the last 7 years.

Sheesh.

It's a stinkin video game. LOL!!!!

# 25 Armor and Sword @ 09/05/13 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GiantBlue76


	It's simple to answer this question. Tiburon screwed up this game beyond all recognition. In 8 years, we saw absolutely ZERO innovation in football gaming. In fact, Tiburon not only couldn't fix their mistakes from last gen, they couldn't even replace everything that we already had back then. TERRIBLE. Madden 25 is a decent game, but it should have come out back in 2008. I hate to be the guy to say this, but the reality is had 2k been able to continue, Madden would have gone the way of NBA Live or it would have been a much better product out of necessity. This entire generation was a solid waste and ended up alienated long time fans. This reputation will be really hard to shake too. No company is more hated than EA/Tiburon. They may try to tell you different, but that is the case due their own doing, no one else's fault.

I don't disagree.....they would have stepped up more....Madden is a brand...a powerful powerful brand.

We are but a small minority of hard core sports gamers. 95% are casual gamers (who love sports games too...but are not crazy anal like a lot of us).

But reality is EA has NFL football. So either you make the best of it or move on.

Why frustrate yourself....if it does not work for you?

I feel it is highly exaggerated when it comes to Madden. I mean crazy hyperbole and just incessant whining, bashing and just dreck. We have OS'ers who know how to have intelligent discussions about Madden....but it's get's buried by a lot of garbage.

M10, M12 and now M25 are really good video games IMO.....better than last gen Maddens in many ways.

# 26 Armor and Sword @ 09/05/13 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheRealHST


	THIS . God forbid some of us wanting more for our money

Absolutely......but don't bash those who feel they are getting they're monies worth.

It works both ways.

# 27 Jkpress @ 09/06/13 09:26 PM

or PS4). because I don't see Madden doing too much different than what has already been done. What has been done has been okay. I'm not looking for earth shattering features just major improvements and I have played and owned most of the Madden games since its inception and all have problems with them. I buy the game (eventually ) and I either I look at each installment as half empty or half full. I buy it because I like football but Madden after 25 years should be way ahead of any football game and I don't mean by sales or because it's the only game in town. I do enjoy Madden 25 but I have to tweak it to my liking for it to be challenging. 2k football if it was allowed to continue would have put Madden to the test because to me during their cycle 2k football was better. 2k football had it's flaws but I believe it would have improved if allowed to continue with an NFL license. I do believe that Madden 25 is the best in the series (with tweaking) but not by leaps and bounds. The improvements for this generation isn't great despite each edition having improved on some level. (Madden games at times seem to take 1 step forward and steps backward.) Madden developers appear to wave a carrot in front of gamers so they can buy the next edition of Madden only to show marginal improvements. The carrot now is the next generation consoles. I expect improvement for next generation consoles but not much. I'm done with my 25 years of Madden unless I see major improvements and I will play with what I have including my 2k football. I'm not impressed with yet another generation of consoles(maybe years down the line I'll buy a used Xbox Oneinclusion of what they have. Better AI, better balance between offense and defense, a good half-time show, post-game show, etc. Madden could have been a lot better than it has been but the developers for whatever reason did just enough or got lazy I don't know. The bottom line for me is I do like Madden, but after 25 years at this point the game should truly mean "If it's in the game, it's in the game!"

# 28 Jkpress @ 09/06/13 09:36 PM

I don't see Madden doing too much different than what has already been done. What has been done has been okay. I'm not looking for earth shattering features just major improvements and I have played and owned most of the Madden games since its inception and all have problems with them. I buy the game (eventually ) and I either I look at each installment as half empty or half full. I buy it because I like football but Madden after 25 years should be way ahead of any football game and I don't mean by sales or because it's the only game in town. I do enjoy Madden 25 but I have to tweak it to my liking for it to be challenging. 2k football if it was allowed to continue would have put Madden to the test because to me during their cycle 2k football was better. 2k football had it's flaws but I believe it would have improved if allowed to continue with an NFL license. I do believe that Madden 25 is the best in the series (with tweaking) but not by leaps and bounds. The improvements for this generation isn't great despite each edition having improved on some level. (Madden games at times seem to take 1 step forward and steps backward.) Madden developers appear to wave a carrot in front of gamers so they can buy the next edition of Madden only to show marginal improvements. The carrot now is the next generation consoles. I expect improvement for next generation consoles but not much. I'm done with my 25 years of Madden unless I see major improvements and I will play with what I have including my 2k football. I'm not impressed with yet another generation of consoles(maybe years down the line I'll buy a used Xbox One/ps4). I want Madden to improve on what they have.and include some of what they took out. Better AI, better balance between offense and defense, a good half-time show, post-game show, etc. Madden could have been a lot better than it has been but the developers for whatever reason did just enough or got lazy I don't know. The bottom line for me is I do like Madden, but after 25 years at this point the game should truly mean "If it's in the game, it's in the game!"

# 29 GisherJohn24 @ 09/07/13 01:08 PM

Honestly if the game is fun, I'll keep buying it. Presentation needs to be the focus for next gen.

# 30 Skyboxer @ 09/07/13 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Armor & Sword


	Absolutely......but don't bash those who feel they are getting they're monies worth. It works both ways.

Was about to post the same thing.

For me I really want the franchise to move much more forward that it has this gen.
Doubt it happens without competition though but I'm hoping!

Either way if I think I'll get enjoyment out of it I'll buy it.

# 31 Skyboxer @ 09/07/13 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GisherJohn24


	Honestly if the game is fun, I'll keep buying it. Presentation needs to be the focus for next gen.

Presentation is an aspect that needs to get better I agree but AI and actual football where strategy matters... and not just the speed rating, is more important to me.

# 32 Demoncrom @ 09/07/13 09:24 PM

It is clear that after almost 10 years of buying the same 2 football games at an expense to all of us of about 1000 dollars per person, we are all pretty fed up with it. Do not get me wrong with the proper sliders nfl 25 is a decent game of football. But lets be real why do I need to use sliders to fix things that are broken.

It is time to demand better - but its hard to garner support. I am through with talking to EA about it and would like to take it to the NFL. This petition was created to do just that - http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/end-the-ea-monopoly-of-the-nfl-license/signatures

Sign up and get your friends to as well. I am not sure how many signatures it would take maybe 250,000 would let the NFL know that we are not impressed. For gooness sake they just got the refs back on the field a few years back and this year we get an all madden team - are you joking? All madden team were available since back in the days of Sega. they add features and remove them at will and then say we did not have time.

They make millions on us, add some more programmers, a good excuse this does not make

# 33 SamoanSteelerFromAus @ 09/08/13 10:04 PM

I truly believe people who have been playing football games since the late 90's or early 2000's (Madden and other titles) deep down know where we should at in terms of football simulation with our current technology in 2013. Our expectations definitely haven't been met and I feel like people who LOVE madden and say that the newest title is a big improvement are those that don't have much knowledge with other titles from the past.
There were games on previous gen that did many things better than ea that wasn't titled NFL 2k. I remember things from NFL quarterback club that got things right over madden like having mid air tackles in a game made in 2001 or chain crews and refs you could actually knock over in a game et cetera. and I still believe NFL fever on xbox had better player movement than current madden.

The people who love madden are usually comparing madden to earlier maddens which allows EA to get off easily.
If you don't have an accurate perception of where football games should be based on the evolution of the game over the last decade then just look around at other sport games and what they've managed to do. NBA 2K turned me into an nba fan which is a big thing to me. However whenever I think of madden I'm just happy i've been into the sport since I was really young cause this game would have turned me off the sport if i was new to it.
We deserve to be critical of EA for their product, simple as that.

# 34 WarlordZMaster @ 09/09/13 09:49 AM

The Madden series is not even close to what 2K as done with the NBA 2K series. Presentation is far from the spectacle of real NFL football. Gameplay is often broken and unrealistic. My expectation for the next gen versions is nothing more than lipstick on a pig. Same game engine with whatever patches take place between now and next gen release with slightly better graphics. I doubt, based on the past 5 years that you see any real improvements. If this series had competition, you would have seen cancelled/failed releases just like the NBA Live (dead) series. I like many others play an occasional game of Madden because there are no other choices available.

# 35 WarlordZMaster @ 09/09/13 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GiantBlue76


	It's simple to answer this question. Tiburon screwed up this game beyond all recognition. In 8 years, we saw absolutely ZERO innovation in football gaming. In fact, Tiburon not only couldn't fix their mistakes from last gen, they couldn't even replace everything that we already had back then. TERRIBLE. Madden 25 is a decent game, but it should have come out back in 2008. I hate to be the guy to say this, but the reality is had 2k been able to continue, Madden would have gone the way of NBA Live or it would have been a much better product out of necessity. This entire generation was a solid waste and ended up alienated long time fans. This reputation will be really hard to shake too. No company is more hated than EA/Tiburon. They may try to tell you different, but that is the case due their own doing, no one else's fault.

Well said!

# 36 StormsWarning @ 09/09/13 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarlordZMaster


	The Madden series is not even close to what 2K as done with the NBA 2K series. Presentation is far from the spectacle of real NFL football. Gameplay is often broken and unrealistic. My expectation for the next gen versions is nothing more than lipstick on a pig. Same game engine with whatever patches take place between now and next gen release with slightly better graphics. I doubt, based on the past 5 years that you see any real improvements. If this series had competition, you would have seen cancelled/failed releases just like the NBA Live (dead) series. I like many others play an occasional game of Madden because there are no other choices available.

this is what i talk about in "bold", and i'm not trying to pick a argument, but in reality, you don't know this unless you have been at E3, Games-con, Pax or better yet the studio, where the game is being made. outside of people that were actually "blessed" to play this new gen behind closed doors, and the people who make this game and other games as well, no one can do nothing but "assume" at best. the stuff will be out soon, and people can make choices then.

# 37 wech @ 09/19/13 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by illiterateoption


	I think it depends on which game your using as the foundation moving forward. If they use NCAA14, and incorporate some of the FUN thats found in that game over to Madden then we might have something. NCAA 14 as it is now is a ton of fun for me. So much so that it may keep me form Madden 25 until I hear more positives. NCAA 14 has brought me back into Dynasty mode in such a way that I haven't been since NCAA 2004. The thing with Madden, even the later iterations (12 and 13) that are at least playable is that they are laborious to enjoy. I feel like its alot of work to sit down and enjoy a franchise game of madden, if that makes sense.

The thing with Madden, even the later iterations (12 and 13) that are at least playable is that they are laborious to enjoy. I feel like its alot of work to sit down and enjoy a franchise game of madden, if that makes sense.

Truer words were never spoken. I really just want to be able to put the game in, easily access what I need to for my franchise and go. It SHOULD be that simple. Tinkering with every last thing for hours on end just to be able to play doesnt seem worth it most times. Its really what stops me from playing it a lot. Its just too darn complicated to sit and easily enjoy it in franchise mode.

# 38 Armor and Sword @ 09/20/13 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheRealHST


	AGAIN...If its just "a stinking video game" why did you go you through all the trouble to come to OP, sign up, contribute, and post on forums frequently to talk about "stinking video games" ? Seems like alot of trouble for just a couple of video games.

There is a line......I am a passionate sports gamer.....that's why I am here.

At the same time I have the maturity to realize.....it is a video game and to take that at face value. Some are really good....some are really bad. Most fall somewhere in between.

But a toy (which is what we are talking about) would never get me so riled to the point of spewing the type of anger and venom that I see on these boards.

It's absurd to be frank.

And yeah....in the end....compared to everything relative in life....

It's a stinking video game.

# 39 Armor and Sword @ 09/20/13 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheRealHST


	But I'm not angry, and I never was, I just want alot more out of these titles. Some are bad, yes thats true, but EA is supposed to be the top of line. Thats all I'm saying. It a fun product, but the quality is poor.

Not saying you in particular are angry.

And we both want the same thing. And I don't disagree about the overall quality when looking at this gens cycle. For the most part it was very poor save for 3 Maddens (10,12,25) and the last 4 NCAA titles (11,12,13,14)

With NCAA IMO they got better and better.

I am being gracious about Madden as 10 was good but franchise an abortion. 12 good but still lacking on the field. 25 finally was able to give me a really good package for the most part.

Anyway.....I hope PS4 brings us a far better Madden in the years to come.

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