Kid(s) leaving home - support group

[stevew]

Lauren did well. School housing is a humongous scam. Must find a way to free her from the dorms of oppression

[Edward64]

Son went back to college on Mon. Good to see him again and have him around for about 3 weeks, still pretty much the same but you can see a little more independence (he's made decisions and done several things without consulting us first). I'm sure this will continue over the next 3.5 years which is a good thing.

FWIW, second time leaving the home for school was alot easier on me and wife.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Son went back to college on Mon. Good to see him again and have him around for about 3 weeks, still pretty much the same but you can see a little more independence (he's made decisions and done several things without consulting us first). I'm sure this will continue over the next 3.5 years which is a good thing. FWIW, second time leaving the home for school was alot easier on me and wife.

Will goes back Sunday (weather permitting I guess ... Oxford, MS is rather f'ed atm I believe)

Winter break departure is 2nd worst only to actual fall departure around here.
He's home long enough on this stint that when he leaves we're highly aware of the quality of life difference :/

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Son went back to college on Mon. Good to see him again and have him around for about 3 weeks, still pretty much the same but you can see a little more independence (he's made decisions and done several things without consulting us first). I'm sure this will continue over the next 3.5 years which is a good thing.

FWIW, second time leaving the home for school was alot easier on me and wife.

Took our son to the airport on Sunday and he started classes yesterday; and it was a little easier the second time around. While it was great having him around for 4 1/2 weeks, he wasn't home much except during the many football games.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Will goes back Sunday (weather permitting I guess ... Oxford, MS is rather f'ed atm I believe)

Winter break departure is 2nd worst only to actual fall departure around here.
He's home long enough on this stint that when he leaves we're highly aware of the quality of life difference :/

The low gets above freezing on Sat here in Atlanta so figure MS should be good by Sunday.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Edward64

The low gets above freezing on Sat here in Atlanta so figure MS should be good by Sunday.

Yeah, I was mostly being facetious about that possibility.

It's funny though, one of the surprises of his time there is discovering that when it's cold in both places, Oxford tends to be colder than Athens. I guess I just always thought of MS as warmer than GA but it doesn't seem to work out like that.

[Ksyrup]

Caitlin went back early on the 5th to work her school's softball camp. She surprised the heck out of us by bursting out crying when she left. She didn't cry when we left her in August. That was completely unexpected.

She had a good semester though. Pulled out a 4.0. Now comes the challenge - playing ball and trying to maintain her grades

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Caitlin went back early on the 5th to work her school's softball camp. She surprised the heck out of us by bursting out crying when she left. She didn't cry when we left her in August. That was completely unexpected.

She had a good semester though. Pulled out a 4.0. Now comes the challenge - playing ball and trying to maintain her grades

I suspect (okay, let's hope) that having a semester under her belt will be an advantage with the season starting up.

I know that adds a layer of extra challenge for football / fall sports freshmen.

[Ksyrup]

Yeah, I couldn't imagine her having to start college as a soccer player, for example. She's kinda stressing because she'll miss so many Thursday/Friday classes. There are also the known athlete-hating professors that will make their lives miserable, too.

I suspect she'll work her way through it all, but I also can see the constant travel/playing and stress that comes from that, on top of school work, could lead to some problems. They play up to 55 games, I think, and the season runs until a week or two after school gets out. I expect it will be tough.

[Buccaneer]

In only his second semester, my son has a good chance of doing a sports talk/news radio show. He could go on tomorrow night talking about the Premier League. He’ll be doing radio first before getting into television and in the meantime, he’s also working on the reporting side. My guess that he will ultimately end up in media and public relations for a large sports organization.

[Edward64]

Nice to hear our kids achieving and enjoying themselves.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I don't care if it's after 3 days home, a week home, or two months home ... the send-him-back-to-school days are just the absolute worst.

To go from being up at 5am (sober), laughing to the point of tears over stupid shit from wrestling matches a decade old on YouTube to ... well, pretty much empty & mundane days.

I fucking hate these Sundays, I really do.

[tarcone]

My senior daughter has decided to go to Southest MO St. (SEMO). Its about 2 hours south.
I wont tell you Im not kind of excited. Will I miss her. Yes. But at this point, Im ready for her to get out and be an adult.

Now, when it happens will my attitude change? Im sure it will. But right now, Im pretty excited for her.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by tarcone

My senior daughter has decided to go to Southest MO St. (SEMO). Its about 2 hours south.
I wont tell you Im not kind of excited. Will I miss her. Yes. But at this point, Im ready for her to get out and be an adult.

Now, when it happens will my attitude change? Im sure it will. But right now, Im pretty excited for her.

Pro tip: be happy it's only two hours instead of 6+. Your worry on go-back days will at least be shorter-lived. (I'm serious, checking weather along the route, waiting for that "made it" text/call, that can cause some pacing)

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by tarcone

My senior daughter has decided to go to Southest MO St. (SEMO). Its about 2 hours south.
I wont tell you Im not kind of excited. Will I miss her. Yes. But at this point, Im ready for her to get out and be an adult.

Now, when it happens will my attitude change? Im sure it will. But right now, Im pretty excited for her.

Congrats.

2 hours south is great because she can come home pretty much at will (or you can go visit). That will help, we are restricted to the long holidays because of distance.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I don't care if it's after 3 days home, a week home, or two months home ... the send-him-back-to-school days are just the absolute worst.

To go from being up at 5am (sober), laughing to the point of tears over stupid shit from wrestling matches a decade old on YouTube to ... well, pretty much empty & mundane days.

I fucking hate these Sundays, I really do.

Sorry you are going thru this JIMG.

It may not get any better when he graduates (e.g. I think you said you didn't want him coming back to work?) and in today's mobile society, he may well end up in another city far from you.

Are you planning to move closer to him if that happens?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Sorry you are going thru this JIMG.

It may not get any better when he graduates (e.g. I think you said you didn't want him coming back to work?) and in today's mobile society, he may well end up in another city far from you.

Are you planning to move closer to him if that happens?

Eh, realistically, the odds of me seeing it get to that point (I mean, we still have law school to go, and who knows where that will be) ... I don't even think / worry about such tbh.

I would put money on my wife moving to the general vicinity of wherever he ends up tho, once her mother (who lives here, across town) passes away.
(Not being harsh/cold/whatever there or anything, she's about 90 and reality is that we all do pass at some point)

[Buccaneer]

My son, whose major is basically Sports Media, just did his first play-by-play innings work of a local HS baseball game on the regional radio station. He had been doing some color, postgame interviews and commentaries as well as some on-TV work for the local sports update show. Plus, he just got a paying job working behind the scenes (graphics, stats, spotter, etc.) for the local TV station. Only a freshman and already a professional in his field!

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

My son, whose major is basically Sports Media, just did his first play-by-play innings work of a local HS baseball game on the regional radio station. He had been doing some color, postgame interviews and commentaries as well as some on-TV work for the local sports update show. Plus, he just got a paying job working behind the scenes (graphics, stats, spotter, etc.) for the local TV station. Only a freshman and already a professional in his field!

Back in my day, we started as freshmen ... in high school.

It was even on Sportsdigs

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

My son, whose major is basically Sports Media, just did his first play-by-play innings work of a local HS baseball game on the regional radio station. He had been doing some color, postgame interviews and commentaries as well as some on-TV work for the local sports update show. Plus, he just got a paying job working behind the scenes (graphics, stats, spotter, etc.) for the local TV station. Only a freshman and already a professional in his field!

Congrats. He is getting great practical experience and that will pay off when he graduates.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by tarcone

My senior daughter has decided to go to Southest MO St. (SEMO). Its about 2 hours south.
I wont tell you Im not kind of excited. Will I miss her. Yes. But at this point, Im ready for her to get out and be an adult.

Now, when it happens will my attitude change? Im sure it will. But right now, Im pretty excited for her.

Cool. Don't know anything about the school itself other than it's in the OVC and Caitlin plays them in about 2 weeks.

Just about a month left in Caitlin's freshman year. School has gone well, but the softball season (to this point) has had more downs than ups. Caitlin's done really well, but the team isn't winning like it usually does and Caitlin, in particular, is not used to all the losing. It's starting to eat at her. She came from about 7 years of top middle and high school teams and a travel team that won 2 national championships. Being sub-.500 is not sitting well with her - nor is the way her teammates seem to accept it.

[tarcone]

Where is she at?

A little reality set in today. Went to incoming orientation. Very overwhelming. And this FASFA stuff sucks. I remember buying golf clubs with my student loans because I had that much. Now they really limit you. I guess its a good thing. But, damn, she is going to have to figure some things out.

What sucks is she wants is going into nursing and there is a great program at a community college 20 minutes away. In Missouri we have a program called A+, it is free tuition to a CC if you do all the things you ned to in HS. So she could get her RN for free.

But she wants out and wants the "college experience". SO debt it is. I hope she enjoys that experience.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Had an odd experience over the weekend. Sunday morning 7a phone call from the kid, who was eating biscuits & gravy in a hospital cafeteria at the time.

He was fine physically, he was there 'cause a fraternity brother had some issues, the kind that end up with the patient in ICU & his parents inbound from 6+ hours away.

Yeah, I'm walking the line here between going into details that don't feel like mine to tell.

The takeway, parentally, is that it sucks that your kid has to deal with grownup shit sometimes ... but it's pretty good that, in the end, they're the one that the peers are coming up to even days later to say "glad you were here, you were the one person that didn't panic, and the one that went above & beyond".

He still sucks at tying knots but maybe there's more Eagle Scout in him than meets the eye

[Izulde]

Originally Posted by tarcone

Where is she at?

A little reality set in today. Went to incoming orientation. Very overwhelming. And this FASFA stuff sucks. I remember buying golf clubs with my student loans because I had that much. Now they really limit you. I guess its a good thing. But, damn, she is going to have to figure some things out.

What sucks is she wants is going into nursing and there is a great program at a community college 20 minutes away. In Missouri we have a program called A+, it is free tuition to a CC if you do all the things you ned to in HS. So she could get her RN for free.

But she wants out and wants the "college experience". SO debt it is. I hope she enjoys that experience.

The smart play is the CC route. Do well there, you still get 2-3 years of the college experience and maybe hook into some transfer scholarships. Plus, employable right away with RN degree if that's a thing she wants to do.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by tarcone

Where is she at?.

Tennessee Martin. We play SEMO Tuesday. Big series for us to stay on track to qualify for the conference tourney. SEMO has turned it around this year, so I'm hoping for a split of the DH (though a sweep would be great!)..

[tarcone]

Originally Posted by Izulde

The smart play is the CC route. Do well there, you still get 2-3 years of the college experience and maybe hook into some transfer scholarships. Plus, employable right away with RN degree if that's a thing she wants to do.

Yep. You know that and I know that, but my 18 year old thinks she knows what is best. She is strong willed, so SEMO it is.

[tarcone]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Tennessee Martin. We play SEMO Tuesday. Big series for us to stay on track to qualify for the conference tourney. SEMO has turned it around this year, so I'm hoping for a split of the DH (though a sweep would be great!)..

GOOD LUCK!

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by tarcone

Yep. You know that and I know that, but my 18 year old thinks she knows what is best. She is strong willed, so SEMO it is.

Another option is for her to get into a Hospital RN program.

But I think the college experience will also be good for her. RN's have been in great demand since at least the early 90's and will continue to be so for the foreseeable future and pays decently. More advanced degrees will take her to six figures.

Congrats. Nursing is definitely a calling. I don't think I can deal with seeing people hurting all the time.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Had an odd experience over the weekend. Sunday morning 7a phone call from the kid, who was eating biscuits & gravy in a hospital cafeteria at the time.

He was fine physically, he was there 'cause a fraternity brother had some issues, the kind that end up with the patient in ICU & his parents inbound from 6+ hours away.

Yeah, I'm walking the line here between going into details that don't feel like mine to tell.

The takeway, parentally, is that it sucks that your kid has to deal with grownup shit sometimes ... but it's pretty good that, in the end, they're the one that the peers are coming up to even days later to say "glad you were here, you were the one person that didn't panic, and the one that went above & beyond".

He still sucks at tying knots but maybe there's more Eagle Scout in him than meets the eye

Nice.

I see my son becoming more independent each time he returns for a visit. I think I see college as a "trial" adulthood with some guide rails so its good to hear your son has done well.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Nice.

I see my son becoming more independent each time he returns for a visit. I think I see college as a "trial" adulthood with some guide rails so its good to hear your son has done well.

Yeah, though -- honestly -- I wish there were maybe a few sturdier guide rails around his obstacle course. (I'm unimpressed by the lack of mature involvement with the fraternity, whether alums or just hired/paid personnel ... but maybe that's just a whole other story).

I will say that I give fairly high marks to both university PD and university mental health for their part in the weekend's events. Both performed true to their tasks & lived up to their roles, which I guess is good to know (both for the students & their parents). The doctor who largely misjudged the scenario & read everything not covered by lab work pretty much completely wrong, umm, not so much.

[JonInMiddleGA]

And then there's those moments when your kid texts you a little video from the Friday "warm up party" before their "actual party" on Saturday*.

I guess they musta went ahead & set up the light show for tomorrow's headliner and let the DJ tonight use some of it.

I'll just be over here 2 states away trying to not even think about where some of my money has ended up lol

*local tradition is a major blowout bash on the last weekend before finals prep & finals wrap the year

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Lemme tell you a story, JUST in case it happens to somebody else.

Things you do NOT want to have happen: phone rings, caller ID shows a number in the town where your kid is at school, you pick up and hear "I need to speak with the parent of {your kid's name here}" ...

The time between me saying "this is he" and "I'm with the Ole Miss Family Association and wanted to discuss a donation ..." is one of the longer gaps in time I've had in quite a while.

Dunno what idiot came up with their script but they're in the wrong line of work.

Last weekend my wife and I were shopping and we got a call from son's college zip. For a split second I was thinking uh-oh but I remembered your post.

It was a call to ask about how my son's college experience has been. I suspect it would have gotten to donation but wife cut her short as we were in a store.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Last weekend my wife and I were shopping and we got a call from son's college zip. For a split second I was thinking uh-oh but I remembered your post.

Well, that covers my annual good deed quota I believe. Back to my unproductive asshole self til 2019.

[Butter]

So, I would like some advice about my son. Sorry in advance for the wall of text, but trying to put stuff in context for everyone.

He is getting ready to graduate high school. He has always been a decent student, but the last couple of years of high school have been absolutely excruciating. Seems like he is constantly on the brink of failure, mainly because he doesn't want to do work. He is always blowing off work... basically doing whatever will pull him into the station right at a C. He barely passed college trig and is going to scrape by with a middling D in English. Everything else will finish around a C, maybe even a D. He was in a fair number of honors classes, so that GPA will probably be like a 2.4-2.5 overall.

Despite that record, he got accepted at all the in-state schools he applied to because his test scores are pretty good. He picked one, thankfully the cheapest one but still a good school.

I should also note that we do not have a great relationship. It is ok at times, but rough at others. He has been in counseling for 3-4 years, and is on a number of mood stabilizing medication. Frankly, I want him to be out and try to live on his own. He needs to grow. I have probably coddled him a little too much, accepting his lying excuses for things. He is a smart kid, but literally zero work ethic when it comes to school, unless he really likes the teacher or subject. He likes being involved in about 20 things at once, because he is extremely social. He would rather be in a church or school club than in class.

A couple of examples of me trying to force him to grow up this year: he finally got his driver's license about 2 months short of 18. Two main rules I told him for driving the car:
1. You must turn location services on your phone so I know where you are with the car.
2. NEVER use a phone while behind the wheel of a car.
Third day of driving, he calls me and tells me he had a flat. Looking at the car, he clearly scraped the front end on something. Why? Because he had forgotten to turn location services on, and was attempting to do it while the car was in motion.

Next: There was a senior trip he was going on. I drop him off. A half hour later, I get a call that he is being sent home from the trip. I show up and it is because he possessed a vape device. It was purely a tobacco one, one that is apparently all the rage with teens right now. But since it was discovered prior to leaving for the trip, he was thrown off the trip and suspended from school for 3 days (his first ever school suspension... he is actually typically the target of bullies).

Finally, he has terrible impulse control. He is on his 2nd job... he actually likes working well enough. But as soon as he gets money he wants to spend it. Mainly on food.

He will have stretches where he seems to get it for like a week... followed by 2-3 weeks of struggle with arguments, poor choices, bad grades, etc. Then he spends the entire quarter or semester digging his way out of the bad choices he's made.

You may say that we should punish him harder. But when I have, he basically takes it and turns around for a little bit like I mention. Then a few weeks later, we are back to where we usually are. OR in his more defiant moments, he will say things like "school is meaningless, until you get to college and are preparing for your career". Or "what else can you take away from me? It doesn't matter if you punish me, I'm not doing that work (for school)."

Anyway...

He has already reached out to this college's football team, that told him he could be a student assistant coach (I assume this equates to manager or like menial tasks). He somehow got accepted into the college's leadership "institute". He is going to be in a "learning community" also, which means a group of kids that live together that are in the same major / same interest.

My wife and I are basically giving him one semester to prove this isn't a terrible idea. Have given him simple rules... you must have mainly A's and B's with one C per semester allowed. Anything lower, and it's over. Any behavioral issues or lashing out at others (which I wouldn't expect, as he has only ever lashed out at me and his mother in anger) and it's over. We are making him take out some small loans to help cover school, so that he is financially invested. I even told him at the end of a solid year of college, we would consider getting a car for him to use for the following year.

My main concerns going in are: impulse control. Basically, meals are a buffet, and he could easily develop a major weight problem. He has been steadily up throughout high school... and while he is about 6'2", 250 right now, I fear for him the Freshman 15 will be the Freshman 45.

Also, obviously his grades. His peer pressure control... he told me he had a vape literally because "everyone else had one". So does that mean he's going to go out drinking because everyone else is? That is bad news for his medicine. Speaking of... consistency on taking his medicine could be an issue.

But at the end of the day, I am trying to get him ready to live on his own. I think he can do it. It will be hard, but he has to try to figure out life without us sometime.

I know that I am not exactly saddened at the thought of him not living in my house for a while. I think his mother feels similar. And he has outright told us that he is looking forward to not living at home.

Frankly, the first year won't be a major financial burden on us. If he flames out, it would hurt but not cripple from a money standpoint. We will chalk it up as a failed experiment and move on. But would I love to keep that $15,000 that it will cost us for a year? Sure.

Am I being delusional to even consider letting him go away to college? It is only about 2 hours from here, so far enough to be "away" but close enough to be accessible if needed.

Thoughts?

[Logan]

Wow, a lot of stuff in there. First I wish you and your wife luck in figuring out how to deal with this. Second, my kid is at the point where she just realized she can take off her diaper and run around so feel free to focus more on the advice offered by those who have more directly dealt with these issues already.

Having said that, I kinda think that not only are you not delusional for letting him go away to college, I think you have to and it really might be best for him. It seems like you need to let him sink or swim on his own here. Maybe he really ends up performing better in college when he thinks it actually matters, like he said. There are some positive signs...obviously the good test scores to get into all of these schools shows he has the ability, I think proactively reaching out to the coach about being the manager is an awesome sign, committing to living with kids who share a common major shows he is looking for a group to identify with, etc.

Obviously you're frustrated by all this but I'd try and see to what point your frustration is projecting out to him that you don't actually believe he can accomplish all this and live on his own. Maybe try to take the approach of..."we are giving you this opportunity because we believe you can handle the responsibility. We won't be there to watch you, make sure you are doing what needs to be done, or fix your mistakes. You're an adult on your own and while we'll be here if you need us, this is your chance to start leading the life you want to lead."

You're not going to be able to stop him from drinking and going to parties but make sure he understands how that works with his medicine and the importance of moderation and that, again, HE is the one who is responsible for it. I wouldn't worry about the overeating...if he ends up putting on 50 lbs, it's a consequence he lives with. But maybe being the manager of a football team, watching kids his age doing a lot of training and eating at least nutritionally, that rubs off on him and it changes his own behaviors.

Good luck to all of you.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Okay, I started typing & decided I'd go back and add a preamble. I'm going to shoot from the hip (shocking, I know) with the understanding that I ain't judging nobody in anything I say and that I'm not offering any of it believing its anything more than "fwiw". I believe it's all quite sound or I wouldn't say it, but your mileage can certainly vary about that. There, preamble done.


Honestly, my first reaction is along the lines of "you'd be more delusional if you considered NOT letting him go off to college", unless you were looking to build up a lifetime of resentment that you'd never fully get past with him.

Most of the stuff you described here seems to fall within the range of "young and learning". Which is good, 'cause I don't see anything the red flags to me as "ain't ever gonna learn". He may not ever develop past where you are today, but I don't see anything that feels like a huge "oh shit, that'll NEVER improve".

Another big internal response while/after reading this was "damn, I sure know a lot of people who'd love to trade kid problems with you". I'm not saying that to diminish what a batch of headaches you have with him, but rather, I'm saying it that way because quite a few of those I thought about who'd jump at trading scenarios also happen to have kids who are doing pretty darned well in college at the moment. Having fucked up aspects of their lives doesn't necessarily mean the college experience can't be successful for them at the same time. Maybe "in spite of" certainly rather than "because of", but there's no guaranteed mutal exclusivity. You can be all amounts of fucked up in a variety of ways and still succeed in school, best I can tell.

Next on my list, a biggie: he IS going to fuck up while he's there. Whether it's overeating, drinking a few too many, struggling with being late to a particular class or simply not figuring out a particular professor's wants/likes as quickly as his GPA would be better for, he WILL fuck up somewhere/ something. And most likely more than one something ... otherwise you're having an exceptional parental experience.

I think back to something my own kid said not long after he got to college (we have a pretty wide open relationship, as most people here have kinda figured out) "How come you only figure out you've had one-too-many when you're at around two-too-many?" While I'd rather he just took my word for it I suppose, I don't know that I've ever been more certain that he was {gasp} learning some valuable shit at school than I was at that moment. It's like that scene in War Games where we see all the tic-tac-toe and then "What is it doing? It's learning"

Look, rules/goals/guidelines/whatever are not only fine & reasonable but almost a must. That said however, please try to remember that the end goal(s) are the thing you have to look at most of all, not the one-and-only-one path to get there. If he gains 35 pounds but you're seeing grade progress, seems like a fair enough trade off to me. If he's coping with all the side issues but the grades are a little off-pace, then maybe it's worth getting into specifics on how to give them a nudge upward instead of getting too hung up on "that's two C's, game over".

And, hey, maybe you're already on board with every single point I've mentioned here and just didn't feel the need to spell that out. That's cool too, I'm just winging it based on the request for thoughts.

Good luck to parents & student alike.

[Butter]

Originally Posted by Logan

Maybe try to take the approach of..."we are giving you this opportunity because we believe you can handle the responsibility. We won't be there to watch you, make sure you are doing what needs to be done, or fix your mistakes. You're an adult on your own and while we'll be here if you need us, this is your chance to start leading the life you want to lead."

Pretty much had this conversation with him 2 weeks ago. The "we believe in you" speech. In hopes it would kick him in the butt for the final few weeks of school. Seemed to have the opposite effect.

[Butter]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Next on my list, a biggie: he IS going to fuck up while he's there. Whether it's overeating, drinking a few too many, struggling with being late to a particular class or simply not figuring out a particular professor's wants/likes as quickly as his GPA would be better for, he WILL fuck up somewhere/ something. And most likely more than one something ... otherwise you're having an exceptional parental experience.

Look, rules/goals/guidelines/whatever are not only fine & reasonable but almost a must. That said however, please try to remember that the end goal(s) are the thing you have to look at most of all, not the one-and-only-one path to get there. If he gains 35 pounds but you're seeing grade progress, seems like a fair enough trade off to me. If he's coping with all the side issues but the grades are a little off-pace, then maybe it's worth getting into specifics on how to give them a nudge upward instead of getting too hung up on "that's two C's, game over".

These are good points. Thanks for that.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Butter

Pretty much had this conversation with him 2 weeks ago. The "we believe in you" speech. In hopes it would kick him in the butt for the final few weeks of school. Seemed to have the opposite effect.

I think if you were expecting a meaningful turnaround by a graduating senior who has already been accepted to college during the last few weeks of school, that's on you. I remember everyone being checked out by the return from spring break.

I'd focus the "believe in you" stuff on efforts moving forward. Again, just my quick take on what you wrote but it seems like you're downplaying some of the positive steps he's taken and the signs you should be optimistic. And I get that...after years of struggling and feeling exasperated by all of this, I'm sure it's really really hard. But if you want him to succeed, focus on those things. Talk to him about this job he's going to have and ask him questions about it regularly. Don't most incoming freshman classes have groups set up on Facebook? Encourage him to reach out to some of the kids that will be in this leadership institute, or that will be in his dorm, if that's feasible at this point.

He probably doesn't trust that you actually do believe in him, so look for opportunities to show that you do instead of just saying that you do. He probably senses the dread you have about all of this, and this sense of impending doom that you laid out in your post. But if you seem excited about this opportunity that he is about to experience, and optimistic, he might actually believe you and get excited about that too.

[Edward64]

Initial thoughts.

You mentioned counseling for 3-4 years. Even if its not ongoing now, maybe speak with counselor and get his/her thoughts? There are things a counselor can't tell you due to confidentiality but may/can help steer/hint at things.

Maybe college isn't what he needs, maybe its a trade/tech school (e.g. doing something more with doing vs studying)?

Sorry for your tough situation. I wish your family the best.

[Butter]

Originally Posted by Logan

I think if you were expecting a meaningful turnaround by a graduating senior who has already been accepted to college during the last few weeks of school, that's on you. I remember everyone being checked out by the return from spring break

Fair.

Don't most incoming freshman classes have groups set up on Facebook? Encourage him to reach out to some of the kids that will be in this leadership institute, or that will be in his dorm, if that's feasible at this point.

He has definitely been active on incoming freshman groups.

He probably doesn't trust that you actually do believe in him, so look for opportunities to show that you do instead of just saying that you do. He probably senses the dread you have about all of this, and this sense of impending doom that you laid out in your post. But if you seem excited about this opportunity that he is about to experience, and optimistic, he might actually believe you and get excited about that too.

Well, I feel like the "letting him drive the car" thing was certainly an opportunity for him to see that as putting more trust in him, which crapped out pretty early. I think we're nearing the end of the grounding period off the car use.

I should note that I helped him edit an English paper he had, where he tries to relate to a famous literary character... in that paper, he talks about all the needless lying he does to his parents specifically. That would be another source of concern. What else is he doing that I don't know about? Am I just a chump in this situation to even trust him at all when he is telegraphing to me that he is not generally trustworthy?

I know that part of our relationship could use some work, and I don't expect it to be fixed overnight. But it is difficult to think that I am going to get straight answers out of him while he is away. And maybe what I won't know won't hurt me. But maybe it will.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Logan

Don't most incoming freshman classes have groups set up on Facebook?

fwiw, based on what I see around my own college kid, those pages exist but they're going to be of limited value. The majority of college students largely avoid FB like the plague now aside from some things they post in order for their parents/other relatives to see. It's the old people platform in their eyes.

I'm not allowed to even tag my child on stuff anymore, outside of birthday wishes or stuff I know is relatively safe territory, lest he risk getting a not-cool strike for being associated with FB. I try to honor that pretty well ... unless of course I'm looking to meet my parental quota of must-embarrass-the-child items

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Butter

What else is he doing that I don't know about? Am I just a chump in this situation to even trust him at all when he is telegraphing to me that he is not generally trustworthy?

This is one area where I know I'm kind of an outlier, where our kid tells us damned near everything (even occasional shit we'd be happier not knowing).

At this point though, if yours is lying to you, then you're probably ahead of the communication curve vs the average parent. At least there's enough communication where they end up choosing to lie, I'm not sure half of households even have that much taking place anymore (based on what I'm told by both parents & students alike over the past five years or so).

There's a certain school of thought that suggests that some lies are told just to see if you're paying attention enough to catch them. I'm definitely a believer in enhancing the omnipotence vibe & busting them on 'em when the opportunity arises. Calmly & low-key when possible/warranted, but bust 'em nevertheless.

[Butter]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

fwiw, based on what I see around my own college kid, those pages exist but they're going to be of limited value. The majority of college students largely avoid FB like the plague now aside from some things they post in order for their parents/other relatives to see. It's the old people platform in their eyes.

Yeah, I think his is maybe an Instagram group.

[Edward64]

Son is back for the summer. Good to see him again. He is thinking about changing majors and may be going to another college which is fine by us.

Encouraging him to find a summer job though. He's been in front of the computer playing computer games since he has gotten back.

Need advice on another issue ...

We are having wireless issues and think its because of all the devices. I have a Linksys EA3500 hooked up to Comcast and typical connects are:

3 laptops
2 iPad
4 mobile phones
2 TV's
1 Alexa

I am having intermittent problems connecting to Netflix or Amazon Prime on my TV, sometimes Alexa loses connection etc. I don't think its "distance" (otherwise, I think an access point will help), I think its the no. of connections.

I've read that routers have theoretical limits that far exceed 12 devices but something is going on as the problems popped up when son got back.

Question:

I am thinking about upgrading the router anyway. What routers are you guys using with 12+ connections?

[Izulde]

Originally Posted by Butter

Thoughts?

Going to college is precisely the right thing to do in this case, IMO. I agree with Jon re: the tradeoffs. I wouldn't necessarily be *too* strict about the grades in particular - his first year, he's going to be taking GenEd classes, which can range the gamut from Most Failed Class/Instructor to Cakewalk City. And a lot of times, students experience significant grade drops their first semester of college, simply because it's a completely different playing field from high school. It's part of the adjustment process, and like Jon said, he *will* screw up at least once - with a good shot of even more than once. Doesn't mean college will be a waste or that he'll flame out - just that he's had learning experiences that are part of the whole university landscape.

The fact that he's already working on establishing a social network (incoming freshman class group and SAC with football team) is critical - oftentimes one of the biggest indicators on if a student will cut it in college, if not the biggest, hinges on what kind of support network he has.

As for some of the rest of it - since he's already used to the counseling routine, I'd have him go to CAPS or whatever acronym is used (Counseling and Psychological Services) to keep that routine going. It'll be a good way to make sure he stays on track re: medication and potentially catches pitfalls and traps before he falls into them. My own college career probably would have gone completely differently (kicked out of one school after year for grades, kicked out of a second school two or three times for grades, etc. that culminated in my being in my late 20s before I got my undergrad degree) if there had been much earlier intervention.

Re: him wanting to go and you and your wife being relieved to have him out of the house for a while - that's pretty much par for the course when it comes to graduated high school seniors, or hell, even just seniors in general by about oh, January or thereabouts. Totally normal and nothing to get flustered or upset about.

However things go, whether he soars or crashes, it'll work out. I'm living proof that even the biggest screwups can turn things around.

[JonInMiddleGA]

My wife is currently in Oxford as it's move-the-kid-back-home time. (I'm here with the cats 'cause a) nobody needs my mood after 6-8 hours of car travel, and b) the move needs the extra space more than it needs my presence)

I'm gonna share her FB post from earlier tonight just cause I thought it was an interesting observation about college life & college towns.

One of the saddest sites on the planet is to be the last man left on fraternity row that has not moved out. Dumpsters full of nice things with locals diving for them. Trashed out houses that look so vacant. And one suv and one small car packed to the rafters...lord I hope it all fits!

[Butter]

Originally Posted by Izulde

Going to college is precisely the right thing to do in this case, IMO. I agree with Jon re: the tradeoffs. I wouldn't necessarily be *too* strict about the grades in particular - his first year, he's going to be taking GenEd classes, which can range the gamut from Most Failed Class/Instructor to Cakewalk City. And a lot of times, students experience significant grade drops their first semester of college, simply because it's a completely different playing field from high school. It's part of the adjustment process, and like Jon said, he *will* screw up at least once - with a good shot of even more than once. Doesn't mean college will be a waste or that he'll flame out - just that he's had learning experiences that are part of the whole university landscape.

The fact that he's already working on establishing a social network (incoming freshman class group and SAC with football team) is critical - oftentimes one of the biggest indicators on if a student will cut it in college, if not the biggest, hinges on what kind of support network he has.

As for some of the rest of it - since he's already used to the counseling routine, I'd have him go to CAPS or whatever acronym is used (Counseling and Psychological Services) to keep that routine going. It'll be a good way to make sure he stays on track re: medication and potentially catches pitfalls and traps before he falls into them. My own college career probably would have gone completely differently (kicked out of one school after year for grades, kicked out of a second school two or three times for grades, etc. that culminated in my being in my late 20s before I got my undergrad degree) if there had been much earlier intervention.

Re: him wanting to go and you and your wife being relieved to have him out of the house for a while - that's pretty much par for the course when it comes to graduated high school seniors, or hell, even just seniors in general by about oh, January or thereabouts. Totally normal and nothing to get flustered or upset about.

However things go, whether he soars or crashes, it'll work out. I'm living proof that even the biggest screwups can turn things around.

Thanks for your post.

[Ksyrup]

Caitlin came home on Friday, a day after her team got eliminated from the OVC tournament. Did well in school - better in the fall than the spring, but she still pulled a 3.63 in the spring while playing a 55 game schedule.

The season was a mixed bag. The team had a disappointing season, and there are going to be a ton of changes. Roster will look much different next year. I think for a bunch of the girls Caitlin played with in high school and travel ball, college ball was not the "top o' the mountain" experience they all assumed it would be. Caitlin had a really good season, breaking the school record for wins by a freshman. Unfortunately, she was battling a foot injury (going to the dr. tomorrow but we think maybe plantar fasciitis), so she didn't finish as strong as she would have liked but she fought through it for the last month of the season until she really couldn't pitch effectively anymore. Ended up with a 16-11 record, 2.75 ERA and 20 complete games in 170 innings. That's way more innings than she's ever thrown in a 3 month period, so between the "wall' and the injury, she definitely wore down at the end. Didn't help that the team only had 2 effective pitchers. 37 complete games between the two of them...

Glad she's home for the summer. Needs to heal up and get in better shape.

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by Butter

Thoughts?

I'm just now seeing this, been away for a while.

I would echo much of what Izulde said...and maybe even take it a step further.

I think what you are really struggling with is the cliche concept of letting go. I have had very explicit conversations with my son (basically the same age, hes a hs jr) that are in essence me saying, I want you to be successful and achieve what ever you want to in life. I am doing my best to mold you and teach you the lessons you want. But once you graduate it is up to you to fly or crash on your own. Once they are adults my "job" is done. Now I make sure they know Ill always love them. And Ill be proud of them however they choose to live. But I will no longer sacrifice for them. If they choose to make bad decisions they will feel the brunt of those choices. Like any adult would.

I'm fond of saying you will always be welcome back home for a meal, but never two.

AT this point it really is totally out of your control which path he chooses. And that's ok. It's ok, normal and even commendable to want whats bets for him. But if he gains 25 or 50 or 100 lbs, thats on him. It isnt a reflection of you or mom or your job as parents. He has to understand that, and maybe more importantly YOU have to understand that. He really is his own person now.

Another line my kids have heard too many times, I'll never try to steal the credit if you change the world, but I aint taking the blame if you screw up either.

Man you guys are good parents. You've done right by him. You've also screwed up at times. Guess what, so has everyone in this thread and every parent alive. It comes with the job. Your kid has screwed up too, so did you at his age.

One point I want to pull out of your initial post is about the car.

Ok you made 2 good rule. Location services on and dont use the phone while driving. If he doesn't usually leave location service on, and he legitimately forgot - in other words if his story is true- he was in a bit of a no win, right?
'Crap I should have turned location on but forgot. What do I do? Do I keep driving with it off and break the rules, or do I break the rules and use my phone to turn it on? Again IF his story is legit, there is a silver lining that he WANTED to follow the rules. He just failed to implement them correctly. Im not sure that I would have punished there for anything. That was a great teaching moment. THIS IS WHY YOU DONT USE YOUR PHONE AND DRIVE. Thank GOD its a flat and a scratch do you see how it coudl have been MUCH worse?

Again that comes into parenting style a bit. But at 17 be bad get your hand slapped...really isnt (in my case) a behavior altering process. Teaching the why for the rule is much more important than forcing compliance for the sake of compliance.


Just remember, the fact that your are there - in his life- and he will even talk to you puts you in the top 20 percentile these days. Don't let perfection be the enemy of really damn good.