PERFECT SWOOP mechanics + Issues and How to fix it

[SUGATA]

Many of you already know but anyway this must to be clear.
Legend:
PS - Perfect swoop
GM - grapple move (any trasnition, td, submission, etc)
TM - transition meter
RS - right analog stick
GB - grapple block

1) What is Perfect Swoop (PS)?
PERFECT SWOOP - is a well timed Swoop at the end of TM filling up when performing any GM.
SWOOP RS (PERFECT SWOOP): (may use modifiers L1, L2, L1+L2) (swoop 1:30 “hours”, not needed 3 “hours” i.e. quarter-circle) RS from executing GM direction to any circling direction (up or down/ left or right) – to complete GM w/o full 100% fill up TM by swoop RS (TM disappears and GM begins).
- Swoop RS input is available only for GM with TM (so, with Vibration)
- Swoop radius = when TM disappear, i.e. 1:30 “hour” (8 to 7 or 9, 4 to 1 or 7, etc)
- Input: holding RS in needed direction (2/4/6/8) > [when vibration will be close to its max strength = at the very end as TM fills up 10:00 – 11:30 = timed to the last 8 frames of TM filling up] perform quick swoop RS by 1:30 “hour” in up or down/left or right.
- PS timing is a but different for different GMs - for some GMs PS is earlier, for some GMS - later.
Effects:
- Swoop RS to early [before max vibration]: vulnerable to ALL Reversals, max Stamina cost
- Swoop RS too late [after max vibration]: vulnerable to ALL Reversals, mid Stamina cost
- Swoop RS successfully (i.e. PERFECT SWOOP) [right at max vibration = at the very end as TM fills up 10:00 – 11:30]: immune to GB Reversal (his GB Reversal will be downgraded to a regular Denial, but it will costs me the same large Stamina as if GB Reversal was successful) OR if opponent does not input GB Reversal my GM will have lowest Stamina cost (a bit lower than when Holding RS w/o swoop). Not immune to GM Reversals – because they stop TM in place w/o possibility to filling it up and swoop!
- The ONLY situation when after successful Deny (GB, GB Reversal, GM Reversal) TM colored in opponent’s color does not stop and continue to fill up – is when opponent inputted successful GB Reversal (because the game always gives me a chance to escape his GB Reversal and keep my Position by increased Stamina cost as if his GB Reversal was completed).
> Try always to use Perfect Swoop input in ALL GMs, especially in Submission attempts.

2) There are 2 types of PS:
1. SUCCESSFUL PS (or Perfect Swoop) - right timed PS.
- timing is [when vibration will be close to its max strength = at the very end as TM fills up 10:00 – 11:30 = timed to the last 8 frames of TM filling up]
- signs of PS = (a bit) lower Stamina cost for this GM than standard (not swooped) GM
- ONLY Successful PS - can neglect opponent's GB Reversal, but if there was a GB Reversal input you will not be reversed but will loose more Stamina.
2. FAILED PS (or Swoop, i.e. not perfect Swoop) - missed, mistimed PS.
- signs of Failed PS = much more Stamina cost (2-3 times) for this GM than standard (not swooped) GM
- Failed PS does not neglect opponent's GB Reversal.

3) PS Issues + How to fix:
Why so few people are using PS?
Because it has too much risk - for failed PS you will pay 2-3 times more stamina cost for this GM.

1 issue - too tight input window for PS:
it is nearly 5-8 frames. It is very difficult to succeed in online conditions.
> How to fix: increase window twice = 10-15 frames

2 issue - too few GM's stamina cost reward:
it is nearly 20% less stamina cost for successful PS
> How to fix: increase stamina cost cut by 50%.

3 issue - We need a sound signal when opponent made GB Reversal!
How do you know when to do PS? when opponent inputted a GB Reversal.
How do you know it? with HUD on TM will change its color to opponent's color and... continue filling up (does not freeze)!
But w/o HUD we can not to notice it!
How to fix: when opponent performed early GB so it becomes GB Reversal his fighter performs some sort of kiai shout ("ha"). It will be excellent signal for both fighters about GB Reversal upcoming. So, even w/o HUD we will know that we need to try PS.

4 not issue, but offering - my successful PS must to give a bit (20%) GA for me for a short time just after this GM performed. But Failed Swoop may give a Grappling Disadvantage (GDA) as a penalty. This will increase the role of PS and brought more Skill and depth into grappling!

4) How to train PS:
In Practice with Grapple HUD on, in required position > perform standard GM (w/o swooping, just by holding RS all the time), which you want to train in PS'ing, remember Stamina cost > try to perform PS by targeting to get lower Stamina cost (this means that your Swoop is PS), remember timing.

I am pretty sure that you will succeed nearly in 20-30% attempts, and this is in training not combat conditions, which are much harder. This means that PS needs to be buffed a bit.

5) Question about PS:

Does PS has any additional hidden effect on grappling (for GA, for Submission mini game process)?
Skynet said this:

Quote: Originally Posted by Skynet

I asked someone in QA to look into this, and he was able to get an A rank. Seeing as how the challenges are not merely there to entertain, but also to teach, here are some tips and tricks he gave me to give you: - Using a perfect swoop to enter the submission gives a slight benefit - Also try allowing stamina to regen a bit between attempts Edit: He also suggests the armbar and trianlge over the omoplata, as they're slightly faster animations! Thanks Mysterious QA Man!

As PS rewards you only a few Stamina bonus i dont think this take a role in Submission mini game, so here is may be something also...

[Bigg Cee]

the damn swoop never works for me. I try but it's a hit or miss with it. I feel during lag it's kinda impossible to get the swoop. I just gave up on doing that.

[SUGATA]

Quote: Originally Posted by Bigg Cee

the damn swoop never works for me. I try but it's a hit or miss with it. I feel during lag it's kinda impossible to get the swoop. I just gave up on doing that.

How to train PS:
In Practice with Grapple HUD on, in required position > perform standard GM (w/o Swooping, just by holding RS all the time), which you want to train in PS'ing, remember Stamina cost > try to perform PS by targeting to get lower Stamina cost (this means that your Swoop is PS), remember timing.

I am pretty sure that you will succeed nearly in 20-30% attempts, and this is in training not combat conditions, which are much harder. This means that PS needs to be buffed a bit.

[SUGATA]

I tested now - PS does not give GA at all in grappling.
But i dont think this is right.

So i have one more idea:

4 not issue, but offering - my successful PS must to give a bit (20%) GA for me for a short time just after this GM performed. But Failed Swoop may give a Grappling Disadvantage (GDA) as a penalty. This will increase the role of PS and brought more Skill and depth into grappling!

added this into 1st post.

[SMOKEZERO]

Add a perfect swoop confirmation meter to the grappling hud. Have it flash green. I've asked for this since day 1. GPD said they had a build that didn't do well in focus testing or something. As it stands, there are too many concurrent variables for anyone to consistently pull off the perfect swoop.

[Boiler569]

PS has saved my *** from reversals many times; I love this mechanic

That said...be very, very careful using PS when there is lag.

Not only is it very tough to time-up the swoop --- it will sometimes have an improper input, and will treat your transition as a FAKE transition.

Which can end up putting you in a very bad position! And can even get you reversed!

But...little to no lag...PS is a great tactic, especially for preventing reversals.

I do'nt notice the Stamina affect very much but I trust that it's in there I wish ground transitions cost MORE stamina; and this PS mechanic would be more important for conserving stamina (if you do it correctly of course)