Why doesn't EA just build off NBA LIVE 10? THEY CAN'T.

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  • King_B_Mack
    All Star
    • Jan 2009
    • 24450

    #46
    Re: Why doesn't EA just build off NBA LIVE 10? THEY CAN'T.

    Originally posted by Boilerbuzz
    Then what are you arguing? Why did you respond to my post about him owning rights to the Live engine?

    And he has no right to ideas either. You give up your rights to your ideas when you work for a game company. Unless that idea is quite specific and is copywrite before joining the company. When you work for a game company, you are in a no-compete agreement and your ideas are now theirs. It's a conflict of interest thing.
    I won't pretend to know the exact workings of the video game industry, but is it really that by working for a video game company you give up all rights to your intellectual property? You're speaking in an absolute about the matter where it could very well be that something like that is worked out upon being hired for each developer. So part of luring Wang away from 2K in the first place could be the perk of retaining the rights to his own IPs or a percentage or the sort. I don't think it's a law that or just some mandated rule that you become a video game developer and automatically you have no right to your own IPs.

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    • mlp111
      MVP
      • Jul 2010
      • 1291

      #47
      Re: Why doesn't EA just build off NBA LIVE 10? THEY CAN'T.

      Originally posted by Boilerbuzz
      Funny. I never said anything disputing why he left. Nothing in that link disputes anything I've said. At all.

      And NOTHING in that piece said ANYTHING about him OWNING the Live 10 engine! That's my point. My only point.
      i guess i should have worded what i stated better, Mike might not own the engine, but quite sure he has rights to it , being that its was his vision, work, coding that made it what it was, if memory serves me right, mike was at EA with live 09, just became lead designer on project 10 i believe, but i do believe the guy has rights to that engine

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      • ShakeDown2012
        Rookie
        • Aug 2012
        • 3

        #48
        Re: Why doesn't EA just build off NBA LIVE 10? THEY CAN'T.

        Apparently not everything Prime said in regards to Mike Wang's departure from EA is entirely true. He gets his information from Ex EA developers so they don't know the full story. Nonetheless, the point was was that Mike Wang is a detrimental part of any basketball development team and his presence is highly appreciated.

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        • DukeC
          Banned
          • Jul 2011
          • 5751

          #49
          Re: Why doesn't EA just build off NBA LIVE 10? THEY CAN'T.

          Originally posted by ShakeDown2012
          Apparently not everything Prime said in regards to Mike Wang's departure from EA is entirely true. He gets his information from Ex EA developers so they don't know the full story. Nonetheless, the point was was that Mike Wang is a detrimental part of any basketball development team and his presence is highly appreciated.
          I think you mean instrumental.

          Instrumental = Postive

          Detrimental = Bad

          That is all

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          • RumbleCard
            MVP
            • Aug 2007
            • 1230

            #50
            Re: Why doesn't EA just build off NBA LIVE 10? THEY CAN'T.

            Lets exercise some common sense here guys. I sincerely doubt Wang carries any intellectual property related to work with EA or prior. Certainly not anything that took place while being employed by EA. A simple non-disclosure answers that question right away. No way EA let alone any game company "borrows" IP that an entire game engine would rely on without securing that IP for themselves. They would not be able to sell the games that used the IP without a license. That means any time after his departure as well.

            Same thing if by some far reaching miracle he previously owned intellectual property that was integral to the EA engine he would have simply licensed it or sold it back to EA. Most likely selling. We know this because VC didn't implement a new engine so there would be no reason for Wang to hold onto what would soon be old and antiquated IP. There's no value in that.

            Secondly or to add to the last point. There is a significant cost involved to protect your IP. One would only incur that cost if there was a profit to be made. Its not cheap. You don't just create something then slap an LLC or DBA around it and call it IP. There is a process in defining what is yours and unique to you.
            Last edited by RumbleCard; 09-04-2012, 08:18 AM.
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            • Boilerbuzz
              D* B**rs!
              • Jul 2002
              • 5154

              #51
              Originally posted by King_B_Mack
              I won't pretend to know the exact workings of the video game industry, but is it really that by working for a video game company you give up all rights to your intellectual property? You're speaking in an absolute about the matter where it could very well be that something like that is worked out upon being hired for each developer. So part of luring Wang away from 2K in the first place could be the perk of retaining the rights to his own IPs or a percentage or the sort. I don't think it's a law that or just some mandated rule that you become a video game developer and automatically you have no right to your own IPs.
              It's certainly possible and has been done in the past. But it's very, very rare and outside of a couple of individuals and special situations, EA refuses to do that. People think Madden controlled all of football. He's one of those special cases. They gave him a big fat check, let him say yeay or nay on some things and threw him in a studio to record lines. That's it. Now if they didn't let Madden do this, do we REALLY think they let a gameplay designer own their basketball engine?

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              • Boilerbuzz
                D* B**rs!
                • Jul 2002
                • 5154

                #52
                Originally posted by mlp111
                i guess i should have worded what i stated better, Mike might not own the engine, but quite sure he has rights to it , being that its was his vision, work, coding that made it what it was, if memory serves me right, mike was at EA with live 09, just became lead designer on project 10 i believe, but i do believe the guy has rights to that engine
                No man. He's a designer. He not a programmer. There is nothing preventing EA from duplicating anything he did. And that goes the other way around as well.

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                • Boilerbuzz
                  D* B**rs!
                  • Jul 2002
                  • 5154

                  #53
                  Originally posted by ShakeDown2012
                  Apparently not everything Prime said in regards to Mike Wang's departure from EA is entirely true. He gets his information from Ex EA developers so they don't know the full story. Nonetheless, the point was was that Mike Wang is a detrimental part of any basketball development team and his presence is highly appreciated.
                  Without a doubt.

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                  • chandlerbang
                    Banned
                    • Apr 2012
                    • 612

                    #54
                    Re: Why doesn't EA just build off NBA LIVE 10? THEY CAN'T.

                    Originally posted by Boilerbuzz
                    It's certainly possible and has been done in the past. But it's very, very rare and outside of a couple of individuals and special situations, EA refuses to do that. People think Madden controlled all of football. He's one of those special cases. They gave him a big fat check, let him say yeay or nay on some things and threw him in a studio to record lines. That's it. Now if they didn't let Madden do this, do we REALLY think they let a gameplay designer own their basketball engine?
                    wow i go to sleep , get up , take a shower , head to work , sitting in my office , go to this thread and you are still debating over speculation i debunked with the interview i posted from Mike Wang himself

                    He owns ideas, EA's not engines. Live 10 wasnt anything new, the only new "engine" was the one they used for nba elite that and using for this DLC they releasing in october called live 13. EA just attempted to 1up 2k and it backfired. ALl those interviews about how they can outdue the competition but their best chance was MW and he left to return to 2k11 crew
                    Last edited by chandlerbang; 09-04-2012, 09:36 AM.

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                    • Boilerbuzz
                      D* B**rs!
                      • Jul 2002
                      • 5154

                      #55
                      Re: Why doesn't EA just build off NBA LIVE 10? THEY CAN'T.

                      Originally posted by chandlerbang
                      wow i go to sleep , get up , take a shower , head to work , sitting in my office , go to this thread and you are still debating over speculation i debunked with the interview i posted from Mike Wang himself

                      He owns ideas, EA's not engines.
                      Dude, your reading skills need an assist from coffee or something. Name ONE idea that he OWNS? Name ONE idea that Live can NOT implement! Just one. As for engines - READ THE THREAD. It started with claims that he owned rights to the Live 10 engine - which I disputed. Pay attention.

                      Live 10 wasnt anything new, the only new "engine" was the one they used for nba elite that and using for this DLC they releasing in october called live 13. EA just attempted to 1up 2k and it backfired. ALl those interviews about how they can outdue the competition but their best chance was MW and he left to return to 2k11 crew
                      So, again, you're arguing a different point that we actually agree on! The only thing we disagree on is that you stop and engine, but say he owns ideas. And I say he doesn't because INDUSTRY, let alone EA, doesn't work that way. NOT EVEN WILL WRIGHT owns the Sims! That's EA's property and they can do with it as they please! And Mike Wang is not Will Wright!

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                      • kingeo19
                        Rookie
                        • Nov 2005
                        • 62

                        #56
                        Re: Why doesn't EA just build off NBA LIVE 10? THEY CAN'T.

                        Don't want to start a new thread about this so here's something LIVE fans should be checking out.
                        EA Sports moderator/Advisory Council member CLUEMINATI has a running journal/blog primarily dedicated to his interaction with the new LIVE project.

                        Welcome to EA Forums, where you can chat about games with other players, help each other out, share feedback, and report issues you’re having with EA games.


                        The last paragraph of his last entry restates what many have been calling for all along in this 3 year wait.

                        To make this the truest post I have ever said to close this out. I have spoke about this besides that document I have sent to my CM, and I have serious thoughts about it that it's damn true. If you feel me on this just say co-sign because I have vented too much outside my element being a true poster not a moderator tonight. No game is perfect in the basketball world because you and I know it. It's not like how MLB: The Show, Madden, NHL, Tiger Woods' PGA Golf, & FIFA just flat out sell on the market. I personally do believe what I am about to say... You may think it's corny, but it's a better option. Mike Wang brought his knowledge to 2K and EA at the time because of the success of Kobe Bryant's Courtside Basketball. Ryan Santos is incredible too alongside Jeff Antwi back in EA Canada, and I give props to the guys down in EA Tiburon doing something with the game plus bringing it back. My thought now is NBA LIVE 10 should've been pollished, fine tuned, tweaked, adjusted, and damn sure re-advancing the engine that can go NextGen instead of what I've been seeing. Next event... Who knows? I'm only saying this as a poster.

                        Hopefully I won't get shut down from my statement.. Because I am sharing this with you guys.

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                        • DonWuan
                          MVP
                          • Oct 2010
                          • 1756

                          #57
                          Re: Why doesn't EA just build off NBA LIVE 10? THEY CAN'T.

                          This is the interview by OS with Mike Wang and Erick Boenisch that talks about his departure from EA.

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                          • Leftos
                            NBA 2K AI Software Engineer
                            • Oct 2010
                            • 1255

                            #58
                            Re: Why doesn't EA just build off NBA LIVE 10? THEY CAN'T.

                            Don't know how EA works, so I won't claim that.

                            All I know was that when we went to SanFran on a field trip, while touring Microsoft's Silicon Valley premises, we were told by an employee that whatever idea you have while working there, whatever you implement, whatever you write on a whiteboard, whatever you dream while sleeping at the office, it's all automatically Microsoft property.

                            It's all in the contract. You can't spill the beans while working there or it's enough of a reason for rightful termination, and you can't take any work you did at Microsoft with you to the next company, or it's grounds for a lawsuit.

                            Don't know what Mike Wang's contract at EA was, but I doubt EA built its colossal empire (and ruined so many good smaller studios) by giving out contracts that could force it to scrap years' worth of work just because someone leaves the company, whatever their contribution to the project.

                            That's just my 2 cents. The whole premise that EA can't use Live 10 as a base because of Mike Wang still having IP over the work, to me seems ridiculous.
                            Last edited by Leftos; 09-04-2012, 06:01 PM.
                            Eleftherios "Leftos" Aslanoglou
                            NBA 2K AI Software Engineer
                            Visual Concepts Entertainment / 2K Sports
                            Novato, CA, USA

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                            • 23
                              yellow
                              • Sep 2002
                              • 66469

                              #59
                              Re: Why doesn't EA just build off NBA LIVE 10? THEY CAN'T.

                              Originally posted by Leftos
                              Don't know how EA works, so I won't claim that.

                              All I know was that when we went to SanFran on a field trip, while touring Microsoft's Silicon Valley premises, we were told by an employee that whatever idea you have while working there, whatever you implement, whatever you write on a whiteboard, whatever you dream while sleeping at the office, it's all automatically Microsoft property.

                              It's all in the contract. You can't spill the beans while working there or it's enough of a reason for rightful termination, and you can't take any work you did at Microsoft with you to the next company, or it's grounds for a lawsuit.

                              Don't know what Mike Wang's contract at EA was, but I doubt EA built its colossal empire (and ruined so many good smaller studios) by giving out contracts that could force it to scrap years' worth of work just because someone leaves the company, whatever their contribution to the project.

                              That's just my 2 cents. The whole premise that EA can't use Live 10 as a base because of Mike Wang still having IP over the work, to me seems ridiculous.

                              I just think its more of they dont want to rather than can they use it as a base

                              Some ideas in these games will be on both if that makes sense... such as the RB passing... it was implemented in live 10 and in 2k11

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                              • Caveman24
                                MVP
                                • Jul 2011
                                • 1352

                                #60
                                Re: Why doesn't EA just build off NBA LIVE 10? THEY CAN'T.

                                I think it would be easy to build off Live 10 but then you would have people saying oh this just Live 10 with updated roster to me I think they went to early with the new physics engine they should've just kept the engine for Live 10 and kept building off that until the next gen console then they could of gone with the new engine but EA scrapped the Live 10 engine anyway so it's no use I say whenever this game drops if it comes out Oct3 they need to work on Live 14 Oct 4th give fans a more of a voice work on the engine right away and hire more devs idc old 2k guys old NBA 09 the life guys bring in people that know what there doing and will have something ready by E3
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