thoughts on sacks and lineplay...

[mjhyankees]

having read the recent article and other threads about problems getting sacks....let's keep something in mind. A great pass rusher would average around 1 sack per game. Given the NFL average of 30-35 passes per game that means he's being blocked or not getting to the QB 29-34 times per game. yes, sometimes he gets there late and the ball is gone...but how often is that? I'd say a great DE or DT may get 3 hits for every sack? That's still alot of times getting 'handled'....maybe the games not as broke as we think.

[jyoung]

As far as stats go, a consistent pass rush is more about hurries than sacks.

There are NFL games where a good d-line only registers a few sacks in a game, but they will have 20+ hurries.

Good d-lines in football video games can't even generate hurries consistently, much less sacks.

Unfortunately, I haven't found anywhere online where hurries for NFL defenses are recorded. Only sacks seem to get tracked.

[kcarr]

Quote: Originally Posted by mjhyankees

having read the recent article and other threads about problems getting sacks....let's keep something in mind. A great pass rusher would average around 1 sack per game. Given the NFL average of 30-35 passes per game that means he's being blocked or not getting to the QB 29-34 times per game. yes, sometimes he gets there late and the ball is gone...but how often is that? I'd say a great DE or DT may get 3 hits for every sack? That's still alot of times getting 'handled'....maybe the games not as broke as we think.

Lets go with your figures there. By what you figure a great DE should on average hit or sack the qb around 4 times a game or nearly 1 out of 8 pass attempts. Also, remeber that is just one of the potential pass rushers on the team and already you have pressure on the qb 1 out of 8 times. Also, every team in the NFL last year average nearly 1.5 sacks a game or more. That means they should be hitting the QB about 1 out of every 5 or 6 dropbacks.

The biggest thing though that the game does not show well is that in the game any old LT can hold any DE one on one to less than those 3 or 4 pressures per game. In real life to keep those great pass rushers in check even to those numbers teams either have to have a truly elite tackle or they have to help out their tackle by leaving backs or tight ends in to block or shifting their blocking scheme to allow another lineman to help out or throwing quicker passes or whatever they choose to do

[Exonerated]

gamers can't hack real life.

So you have ineffective pass rushes to make it easier!

[steelersfan77]

I've always hoped for more realistic line play. Things like getting the edge rushers out wide for room to make a move and not getting sucked into an animation like it currently works. This would add a more realistic NFL pocket.

One other thing I've always wanted to see was auto QB movement. Quarterbacks who have high ratings for pocket awareness can move around in a pocket with gracefullness and have that knack for knowing where the pass rush is coming from simply by a feeling. That way all I have to do is worry about throwing the football. I don't know when to step up in the pocket or get out wide when I'm looking downfield in a video game.

I just think that would help to allow a more "REAL" pass rush, time wise, and cut down on sacks. Maybe some kind of vibration in the controller that allows me to know when to throw the football. Kind of like a you're being hurried warning. Maybe the vibration could signal it's time to take over the control of the QB by bringing down the passing icons and scramble passed the line of scrimmage.

I also think it would help in online play and create more of a "sim play" atmosphere. It would prevent users from taking the snap on a pass plays who run backwords 20 or 30 yards and launch the football with supreme accuracy.

Auto QB control could be turned on or off.

[s38s38s]

Quote: Originally Posted by steelersfan77

I've always hoped for more realistic line play. Things like getting the edge rushers out wide for room to make a move and not getting sucked into an animation like it currently works. This would add a more realistic NFL pocket. One other thing I've always wanted to see was auto QB movement. Quarterbacks who have high ratings for pocket awareness can move around in a pocket with gracefullness and have that knack for knowing where the pass rush is coming from simply by a feeling. That way all I have to do is worry about throwing the football. I don't know when to step up in the pocket or get out wide when I'm looking downfield in a video game. I just think that would help to allow a more "REAL" pass rush, time wise, and cut down on sacks. Maybe some kind of vibration in the controller that allows me to know when to throw the football. Kind of like a you're being hurried warning. Maybe the vibration could signal it's time to take over the control of the QB by bringing down the passing icons and scramble passed the line of scrimmage. I also think it would help in online play and create more of a "sim play" atmosphere. It would prevent users from taking the snap on a pass plays who run backwords 20 or 30 yards and launch the football with supreme accuracy. Auto QB control could be turned on or off.

The bolded (not a personal attack), is apart of the mentality that has caused the pass rush to be a bit neutered. Gamers should take the time to "learn" things that a real NFL team/player would do in given situations.

You got people throwing 40+ times and running 6 times in a game on 10 minute quarters, the masses need to step up their Football IQ, adn EA should encourage it by trying to make the on field actions share the same consequences as they do IRL.

If I throw into double coverage and the DB jumps the route it should get picked more often than it currently does, DB's don't have great hands but they don't have bricks for fingers either. For users who complain about mirroring stats/results play more like a real QB don't force passes and you'll get them, if not you'll get punished.

[TNT713]

Let's not get it twisted... Madden is supposed to be fun. So we should ask ourselves would the game still be fun IF:

1) Players were forced to adjust their base protection to pick up to A-Gap blitzes?

We already know this is NOT fun for thousands of players that may know little to nothing about pass protections, defensive fronts, or how to manipulate the controls pre-snap to account for these things.

2) Players without the ability to see all 22 players at the same time became focused on the pass rush.

Players who are not secure enough to read all 22 player movements must instead focus on smaller areas of the field. If they can't read their receivers and the rush, they will eyeball one or the other with disastrous results.

Face facts... There are millions of Madden players with millions different levels of comfort and skill at watching football, discernment about what they see, and the knowledge of what actions to take in the electronic environment to duplicate the brand of football they wish to play.

Dare I say that without this chasm between the Madden players that are supremely aware of both football and Madden and those that are only slightly aware of either is the main reason that most Madden sites were created. Players need the support of their peers - whoever those peers may be.

Less experienced players seem to be drawn to play less experienced players. More experienced players seem to be drawn to play more experienced players. When the two are mixed, it's usually NOT a good expereince for the lesser experienced player.

When you factor that many Madden players take a casual approach to both football and Madden, it's easy to understand why an elite DE doesn't reach the QB in 2.7 seconds...

Also consider that many inexperienced Madden players cite 3 to 5 seconds as the amount of time they SHOULD have to throw a pass and it makes sense that many of the differences between real life and Madden are designed to make the game fun for players - sometimes at the expense of realism.

Later

[steelersfan77]

Quote: Originally Posted by s38s38s

The bolded (not a personal attack), is apart of the mentality that has caused the pass rush to be a bit neutered. Gamers should take the time to "learn" things that a real NFL team/player would do in given situations. You got people throwing 40+ times and running 6 times in a game on 10 minute quarters, the masses need to step up their Football IQ, adn EA should encourage it by trying to make the on field actions share the same consequences as they do IRL. If I throw into double coverage and the DB jumps the route it should get picked more often than it currently does, DB's don't have great hands but they don't have bricks for fingers either. For users who complain about mirroring stats/results play more like a real QB don't force passes and you'll get them, if not you'll get punished.

No personal attack taken, and I see what you mean. The past few years I've only rented Madden and one of the things I've always had trouble with was watching the recievers and coverage downfield. For the most part I hold the ball to long and take a sack. When I watch the replay I notice how the pocket around me unfolded. That's fine, I wasn't watching the pocket around me because of the view Madden plays at and what jumps out to me is the fact that I allowed the QB to do a 3 to 5 step drop for me. After that the QB does a little knee bending and nothing else. I'm not going to move my QB all over the place trying to avoid the rush. Why would I? I'm looking downfield at the coverage.

I think it would be awesome to look downfield on a pass play and while I'm scanning the secondary notice the defense in a 2 deep coverage with linebackers over the top, pump the linebacker to get him locked into what he thinks is a pass coming and then hit the open reciever that wasn't open before I pumped that linebacker. Then I look at the replay and notice because I have auto QB that instead of my QB standing there like a statue he feels the rush of the end, steps up between the end and the tackle and throws that strike. Maybe I'm way off but I think this would be a cool feature. I don't think you're taking anything away from the user and his ability during a pass play by having an Auto QB evade feature. Like I said before most gamers don't take a 3 to 5 step drop anyways. They either drop back 20 yards or roll out immediately because of the suction feature that Madden uses in their engine. Quarterbacks should never be able to roll out if the end gets out wide. Not an imobile QB. They would get murdered. Currently in Madden you can roll out whenever you want with Brady and Manning.

It could be turned on or off. Give us options.