2K has become a game of "Highlights" instead of basketball - are badges to blame?

[NoLeafClover]

First of all, I "get" what 2K was originally trying to do when they added badges, attempting to add flavour and personality to different players and make things a little more diverse.

However the problem with badges is they take the rare attributes that let the elite players in the real NBA make incredible plays every now and then, and makes them something that can be done CONSTANTLY multiple times in every game.

Take the Limitless Range badge for example (especially Hall of Fame); it was obviously added due to Steph Curry hitting some insanely long 3-pointers during his incredible MVP season that year. The problem is, Steph hit maybe one or two of these massively deep threes once every few games, not at will for a 90% chance of going in multiple times per game.

Same with Posterizer, a.k.a the Russell Westbrook badge; Westbrook throws down an absolute poster dunk on someone once every few games or so... the rest of the time he's just dunking ferociously on the fast break. Badges like this totally negate good rim protection defense by giving a cheese animation that the defender can't do anything about.

It's a similar case with the likes of Brick Wall (how often do players get totally knocked down by a screen? I mean really, once or twice per SEASON?), Deep Range Deadeye (silly badge in general in my opinion that cancels out good defense); the combo of Corner Specialist/Catch and Shoot (makes big men who shouldn't be able to hit 3's absolute money), etc.

The power of these badges is compounded even more by the fact that most players can/do only have bronze Defensive Stopper at best, and add all of this up and you get a bunch of unrealistic situations that just leads to boring cheesy "highlight" after "highlight" and encourages dumb play by giving low risk/high reward.

I mean we already have ratings that determine how good a player should be in certain situations, combined with unique animation packages... do we REALLY need badges to give all these silly boosts?

Don't know about everyone else but when I play a game and see something like 20 dunks per game, teams shooting 70%+ from 3 point range etc. it sure as hell isn't A) fun and B) anything like actual basketball.

[shayellis]

Quote: Originally Posted by NoLeafClover

First of all, I "get" what 2K was originally trying to do when they added badges, attempting to add flavour and personality to different players and make things a little more diverse. However the problem with badges is they take the rare attributes that let the elite players in the real NBA make incredible plays every now and then, and makes them something that can be done CONSTANTLY multiple times in every game. Take the Limitless Range badge for example (especially Hall of Fame); it was obviously added due to Steph Curry hitting some insanely long 3-pointers during his incredible MVP season that year. The problem is, Steph hit maybe one or two of these massively deep threes once every few games, not at will for a 90% chance of going in multiple times per game. Same with Posterizer, a.k.a the Russell Westbrook badge; Westbrook throws down an absolute poster dunk on someone once every few games or so... the rest of the time he's just dunking ferociously on the fast break. Badges like this totally negate good rim protection defense by giving a cheese animation that the defender can't do anything about. It's a similar case with the likes of Brick Wall (how often do players get totally knocked down by a screen? I mean really, once or twice per SEASON?), Deep Range Deadeye (silly badge in general in my opinion that cancels out good defense); the combo of Corner Specialist/Catch and Shoot (makes big men who shouldn't be able to hit 3's absolute money), etc. The power of these badges is compounded even more by the fact that most players can/do only have bronze Defensive Stopper at best, and add all of this up and you get a bunch of unrealistic situations that just leads to boring cheesy "highlight" after "highlight" and encourages dumb play by giving low risk/high reward. I mean we already have ratings that determine how good a player should be in certain situations, combined with unique animation packages... do we REALLY need badges to give all these silly boosts? Don't know about everyone else but when I play a game and see something like 20 dunks per game, teams shooting 70%+ from 3 point range etc. it sure as hell isn't A) fun and B) anything like actual basketball.

The thing about Limitless range which is so silly to me is, instead of their being a reduction in penalty for shooting deep 3's with Limitless, its just seems to count it as a regular 3 shot. So essentially taking a 3 on the line and shooting at the hash mark is essentially the same shot in 2k. Thats absolutely absurd. Because of this help defense is almost impossible, because you have to travel farther to get back to the shooters, and they already shoot 70% from 3.

2k could address this by,

1) Not making limitless range 3's greenable or keep them greenable but green doesnt=automatic make from limitless
2) Make limitless range shots have more penalty than regular 3 pointers.

[jeebs9]

This might be the first time we disagree on a subject lol

I think badges give players more depth. Especially in certain areas of the floor. You just can't do with ratings.

Now if you're playing 12 minute games I could see how there might be a problem. It might feel like certain Hall of Fame badges could be Overkill.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

[NoLeafClover]

Quote: Originally Posted by jeebs9

This might be the first time we disagree on a subject lol I think badges give players more depth. Especially in certain areas of the floor. You just can't do with ratings. Now if you're playing 12 minute games I could see how there might be a problem. It might feel like certain Hall of Fame badges could be Overkill. Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

I don't think you need badges for that though... Just make differences in ratings more dramatic and it has a similar effect without the "jump" in odds of things happening.

I remember in old 2K games (or may have been Live?) they just gave every player a "range" rating where you could literally specify to the exact foot where a player was reliably able to hit shots from.

Same thing with giving "flavour/depth", just tie it into ability to access certain animations instead of creating effects that make smart decisions by the defense pointless.

[jk31]

Quote: Originally Posted by jeebs9

I think badges give players more depth. Especially in certain areas of the floor. You just can't do with ratings.

But the effect of most of the badges can be done with ratings/hot zones. There are so many areas where this whole badge stuff is just confusing.

What is the difference between having the Corner Specialist Badge and having a hot zone in the corner? How can someone have Corner Specialist and on the same time have cold zones in the corner? Why isn't it sufficient to have a pretty high contact dunk rating instead of having the posterizer badge? What is the difference between a Midrange Deadeye and someone having a high Contested Midrange Rating? What's the difference between Pick Pocket and someone with a high Steal rating? Is hustle rebounder really necessary or can't you just reach the exact same result by giving someone high rebound ratings?

Of course there are a few badges, that can't be replicated by ratings, but in my opinion, most of them are obsolete.

[jeebs9]

Quote: Originally Posted by NoLeafClover

I don't think you need badges for that though... Just make differences in ratings more dramatic and it has a similar effect without the "jump" in odds of things happening. I remember in old 2K games (or may have been Live?) they just gave every player a "range" rating where you could literally specify to the exact foot where a player was reliably able to hit shots from. Same thing with giving "flavour/depth", just tie it into ability to access certain animations instead of creating effects that make smart decisions by the defense pointless.

Let me give you a great example that happen recently to me in a H2H match. I agree with what your saying to a point. But I see some holes in what your saying. The problem with the Live formula that your talking about. Is what if a player is only good at 3's. Lets say a Marcus Smart. Smart has to be one of the most inconsistent offense players in the league. He can go from 4 for 4 nights from 3 to 0 for 7 the next night.

But my example.... Recent my cousin and I were playing a 1998 rosters playoff game Knicks vs Pistons. If you don't remember those rosters. Grant Hill/Stackhouse and Ewing/LJ/Houston. I beat my cousin in the first 3 games. And then in game 4 he found a weakness in my defense. I had been forcing him to shoot. But he wasn't taking the shots. In game 5 he started and hitting those shots. Skip ahead in the series. He forces a game 7. One of the players I was give shots to was Chris Mills was hot going into the game. But he misses his first 4 shots and is cold. After that my cousin can't hit any shots with him. I win the series.

I have a question for anyone that doesn't like badges and would like to take them out. Have you guys ever played a few games without them before? I haven't this year. But I have in the past. And I can tell you it's not fun.

Think about All-Time greats. How would we make them All time greats?

[The 24th Letter]

I do think badges have a place. Their original implementation as Signature Styles in NBA 2K13 were a great idea and what many had been asking for, for years. I do think they are a great way to emphasize certain ability that ratings/zones can't capture.

There are now just far too many, overlapping, tiers of badges that have made things more 'gamey' than basketball. I completely agree with the point on badges like 'limitless range'....it annoys me to no end that guys are just comfortable firing feet from the 3 point line with no issue like it's a regular 3pt attempt. We took a couple special Steph Curry moments and turned them into the standard....which is crazy.

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[shayellis]

Quote: Originally Posted by The 24th Letter

I do think badges have a place. Their original implementation as Signature Styles in NBA 2K13 were a great idea and what many had been asking for, for years. I do think they are a great way to emphasize certain ability that ratings/zones can't capture. There are now just far too many, overlapping, tiers of badges that have made things more 'gamey' than basketball. I completely agree with the point on badges like 'limitless range'....it annoys me to no end that guys are just comfortable firing feet from the 3 point line with no issue like it's a regular 3pt attempt. We took a couple special Steph Curry moments and turned them into the standard....which is crazy. Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

Agreed with everything