BLOG!!! The Rise to a fall: EA Sports Basketball!

[Behindshadows]

Thought I'd share a blog I've been working on for a while, I wanted to dedicated this to reEAnimator, since he was so honest about why they change the way they do at EA HQ!!!

Also to my friend Blackflash83, who has been a great person through this episode!!! To stepsix for all his efforts as well.

To my boy, 23, WTF, Sageinfinite, Mo' alias eDotd, and to all the others who are disappointed in this series! I hope this blog, gives you all my insight on the scenario!!!

Click Link Below!!! And be sure to leave all comments!

The Rise to a Fall: EA Sports Basketball!

[Playmakers]

LOL!

I would have read the blog.....accept for the link don't work man

I don't know about the rise. But i think the fall began as Czar pointed out without them having real basketball people with passion working on this series anymore.

I was impressed with what he said about 2K's group of developers being passionate about the game and showing respect for the game by knowing what looks like basketball and making sure it portrays that way in their game.

I think over the years i've probably tweaked and tested EA's B-Ball game more than their own game testers if they even have game testers or AI testers. That's the thing which bothers me the most is they don't seem to test their game at all before releasing a demo or even the final product anymore.

For years i've been able to a certain extent make their AI resemble some kind of basketball skill and ability on the court. Yet i have to scratch my head at times when i see their game out of the box and wonder who in the world approved half the things we see year in and year out with this series on the floor.

How hard can it be to say hey this guy shouldn't be dunking from the FT Line or that guy shouldn't be forcing passes into traffic especially when he has a teammate wide open for a better shot. There just never seems to be any real AI logic on the floor with this series from shot selection to basically recognizing an open player.

How can a game be taken serious when your AI doesn't know the basics of fundemental basketball?

How can we trust the people who work on the game to get it right when those same people from Live 06 to Live 09 never bothered even updating player ratings.

That is when i 1st realized the AI in EA's basketball game was serverely flawed because no one seems to care about the product.....If a regular guy like myself can go under the hood of your game and find out that ratings for 300+ players haven't been changed for 3 years that's bad business

But then again they have released games over the years and almost released this game Elite 11 with major flaws.....

After listening to Czar on that podcast I get the feeling EA's basketball guys are like Charles Barkley they are in it for FUN. Ask Charles Barkley to name half the league and he couldn't even tell you more than 50 players by name or who they currently play for...Those guys over at 2K are like Doug Collins a walking basketball guru.....a guy who knows exactly what team Ryan Hollins plays for and what Ryan Hollins tendencies are on the floor.

You have to wonder if the guys EA hire to work on their B-Ball series is really passionate about B-Ball at all. Sure they come one here and talk about things with us but are they really interested in creating a basketball game that resembles what we see on the floor in the NBA?

A basketball guy should know who Ryan Hollins is and know what type of game Ryan Hollins plays. If Ryan Hollins is dribbling up and down the floor like Steve Nash then you have a problem with your game.....if Ryan Hollins is shooting 3's like World B Free then you have a problem with your game.

The basketball community shouldn't have to point these things out to you.....your game testers or programmers should see this right away before we even touch the game. I was going to buy Elite 11 simply because it's EA's basketball game.

But EA actually did me and many others a favor by delaying this game and saving us $60 bucks on another INCOMPLETE FLAWED PRODUCT that they would have taken advantage of our LOYALTY TO THEM once again this year.

When is enough considered enough by EA?

You delayed the product but that's not good enough IMO....you need to move forward and get some guys with basketball passion working on the game and making sure it goes out the door next time the PROPER WAY!

Signed Pissed Off Long Time NBA Live Fans

[Behindshadows]

Sorry about that man, I edited the blog after posting on OS and it altered the link...I fixed it....let me know your true opinions and thoughts on my blog.

And nice post BTW!!! I really want the EA Devs to read my blog and view the content I posted along with it.

[HealyMonster]

Hey man, nice article. Ive never been that much into videogame basketball so it was nice to see what they brought to the table back at the beginning of this generation.

My only thing is that we, as gamers need to start looking at this from an EA Sports point of view, and not look at this as something new. I mean, if back in the late 90's Triple Play Baseball went through the internet scrutiny games today go through, I could see it being canceled altogether. I mean for the longest time, it was really the only baseball game so when competition came, it took a while for people to realize "hey there are better games out there" and after years of horrible product, EA finally caved in and did something.

Thats baseball, they did the start over and do better thing for NHL, their a NFL game has been a mess, and now the NBA is going through this. This company is a "leader in sports gaming" yet they cant make a game that works? The thing EA sports had on everyone is that they were the first to do make the game. NBA Live 05, Triple PLay, madden, NHL. EA has been living off this name recognition for years and now, it seems, like they wore out their welcome cause people are calling them out. Now we are seeing people who dont know how to make a technically sound video-game.

Seeing Madden have commentary that sounds like I implemented it is like going to watch the Yankees but they only have 6 players in the field. They are supposed to be the premiere sports gaming franchise in the world yet they implement these things that are broken, incomplete features, and its taking them years to release a game that works out of the box let alone one that innovates sports gaming in any way.

You mix in all of these things when you look at it, and then the general attitude of mr "exploit the consumer" Peter Moore and I cant be the only person to see a trend. It would be different if NBA Elite was some weird occurance like wow, ea slipped up, thats a first. But it isnt. Every franchise either is in shambles or was in shambles very recently. This is nothing new and Im inclined to not blame the development team of NBA Elite when everything else in this company is exactly the same. The one variable is the competition which is looking stellar so EA fell back. What do you think would have happened if they didnt own the NFL License?

[Kaanyr Vhok]

Good read. I want to add more on it later. I did notice you left off PS 3 sells for Live 07. It sold very well on the PS 3.

　
　
This is just a theory as to why I feel Elite took a step backwards in its core gameplay.
EA has a history of trying to stifle competition in a way that leads me to believe that when they brought in Mike Wang the first thing they wanted to know was what Live could do to top NBA 2k. That’s understandable. Any smart publisher would ask the same question. The problem is I believe they misread his advice. Mike probably would have told them that in effort to add proper momentum and, player interaction NBA 2k has taken a step backwards in overall control with jerky movements and long animations.

My theory is that the creative trust took that weakness too far. Mike Wang knew it would be a temporary issue with NBA 2k and knew they had to build on more while the creative trust at EA would rather focus on exploiting a weakness than outperforming a strength. Its easy to outperform an opponent where they are weak, its easier to launch a canned animation campaign. After 2010 sold the way it did I’m sure some investors passed the evil eye down the chain. Someone had to suggest changes. That’s when Mike Wang split. Elite was to be a new way to play basketball games.

There is just not enough time for a rebuild of that magnitude. Its true you cant add real time physics in one year and I’m not sure you can do it without a new animation system that would take some time to develop as well.

Think about it. What if Madden had to remove all of its two player animations in one year. Realtime physics is long overdo in Madden but to do it whole sell in one year would be insane. Even In Backbreaker which took three years you have clipping from the knees down to prevent guys from tripping or walking all over each other.

EA needs to do what they did with Fifa. They need to bring in a huge team led by basketball minds and give them time. If they arent willing to break bread for Euphoria they need to bring in EA Big. The jumpshots in Street have been smoother than the jumpshots in Live since the first NBA Street. The animations and repsonsiveness could use a touch of NBA Street. They also need a team to overhaul the presentation. Live 2010's AI needs to return in full. They need to be more realistic with having a live ball on the dribble. A live ball is great for everything but the dribble. Its just too complex. A true Live ball in a basketball video game is almost as complex as programming a robot to dribble.

Its going to be tough because NBA 2k has never been better. They are adding little details like moving screens. And if you think they cant slowly but surely incorporate physics you are naive because you can see the underpinnings with 2k11.

[jsg]

i never knew college games sold that little. i dont blame them for canceling

[Zen_Master07]

I whole heartedly agree with what you said about the game not being tested before release. Even people who have never watched basketball in their lives can see that something seems to be off about the game. The movement in particular, just doesn't look human-like. I think they leave it up to the gamers to do their "testing" part of the job, and then just fix what other mistakes through a patch. Problem with that strategy is that we then have to wait a month after release to be able to play a decent game, how is that fair to the consumers who shell out $60 for your product?

[Kaanyr Vhok]

Quote: Originally Posted by jsg

i never knew college games sold that little. i dont blame them for canceling

It wasn't sells. Much of the gameplay is co-developed with the pro game so 200-400K in sells is fine as long as the NCAA isn't stingy with their cut. They strong armed both EA and Take Two.