Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

[lhslancers]

Quote: Originally Posted by Chip Douglass

Pujols, Ichiro, and Miguel Cabrera are the only guys I can think of who, if they didn't play another game, would be no-doubt HOFers. Ortiz will have to fight off some sticklers, but I think he gets in too (bleh). And I think you need at least 10 seasons under your belt to make the ballot, so Trout, Kershaw, Posey, etc. technically wouldn't be eligible if MLB disbanded tomorrow, although they're obviously well on their way. In Kershaw's case, he could hang around as a role player for the next few years, retire, and still get in based on the Koufax precedent.

The difference is Koufax finished strong after he figured it all out. In your scenario Kershaw came out of the gate quick and became mediocre. I don't think that works for a HOF vote.

[Chip Douglass]

Quote: Originally Posted by redsox4evur

Chip he is also going to hit the 500 HR plateau next year. He doesn't have a great average will give you that. But he still has the HR count. And according to Baseball ref's similarity scores he is the same company as Bagwell, McCovey.

The 500 HR mark is part of the narrative point I made. "Hit a lot of home runs in a big city" + "clutch!!!!" + "ending the curse and 2 other championships" = easy-to-tell baseball story.

And Ortiz isn't Jeff Bagwell. Bagwell was a better hitter and added value with the glove and on the basepaths (200+ stolen bases in his career, which is pretty shocking). A Bagwell comparison might be more enlightening with respect to PEDs, since Bagwell has far fewer links to PEDs than Ortiz does and Bagwell's getting destroyed for it.

Baseball-reference's similarity scores once compared Jay Bruce to Barry Bonds. Baseball-reference is great, but the similarity scores thing isn't so great.

[dubcity]

Quote: Originally Posted by redsox4evur

Without the steroids he is a lock, no doubt, first ballot HOFer. Also they are eliminating a lot of the older voters with the new rule where you have to have been covering the sport actively in the past 10 years. So that could help the cases of Bonds, Clemens, McGwire, and A-Rod.

I would just put all of the major PED guys in one special class, but don't do any speeches.

[Chip Douglass]

Quote: Originally Posted by lhslancers

The difference is Koufax finished strong after he figured it all out. In your scenario Kershaw came out of the gate quick and became mediocre. I don't think that works for a HOF vote.

3 Cy Youngs, an MVP, four consecutive ERA titles, and two of the longest scoreless innings streaks in the history of the game. That's what I'm getting at when I'm comparing Kershaw to Koufax. The peak alone is good enough to get him in. It's just a matter of hanging around as a role player for a few years and filling out the 10 season requirement.

Kershaw being Kershaw though, he'll probably continue being the best pitcher of his generation for the foreseeable future and make the whole thing a non-argument.

[LowerWolf]

A-Rod better not get in before Bonds.

[Chip Douglass]

Between the first mega-contract with the Rangers, the failed PED test, fake apology tour, and then BioGenesis, I'm not too worried about A-Rod getting in anytime soon.

[55]

Quote: Originally Posted by redsox4evur

So that could help the cases of Bonds, Clemens, McGwire, and A-Rod.

[Sportsforever]

Quote: Originally Posted by 55

Barry's left handed?