Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

[Chip Douglass]

Quote: Originally Posted by rdnk

Andruw Jones is an interesting case. He was a monster for most of a decade, and then became a bench guy. He might have a chance when the ballot clears up.

Yup. Here's Jones basically keeping pace with 3 of the greatest players in the sport's history through his age 29 season.


Source: FanGraphs -- Andruw Jones, Barry Bonds, Hank Aaron

Then his body broke down and he only accumulated +6 WAR after that. Still, when you're a special player for the first decade of your career, I don't think your inability to hang around as a decent regular in your 30s should radically impact your Hall worthiness. He'd certainly have my vote.

[Sportsforever]

Quote: Originally Posted by Chip Douglass

Yup. Here's Jones basically keeping pace with 3 of the greatest players in the sport's history through his age 29 season. Source: FanGraphs -- Andruw Jones, Barry Bonds, Hank Aaron Then his body broke down and he only accumulated +6 WAR after that. Still, when you're a special player for the first decade of your career, I don't think your inability to hang around as a decent regular in your 30s should radically impact your Hall worthiness. He'd certainly have my vote.

Watching Andruw's career, I can't help but feel it was wasted. I would vote for him as a HOF'r, but he should have been a slam dunk if he took care of his body better. As your graph shows, he was on pace for a Willie Mays type of career...and then just stopped producing. He's only 40 this year...if he had been playing the last few years even at a passable level he'd easily be over 500 homers. Oh well...he was a joy to watch from 1996-2007.

[Chip Douglass]

Quote: Originally Posted by Sportsforever

Watching Andruw's career, I can't help but feel it was wasted. I would vote for him as a HOF'r, but he should have been a slam dunk if he took care of his body better. As your graph shows, he was on pace for a Willie Mays type of career...and then just stopped producing. He's only 40 this year...if he had been playing the last few years even at a passable level he'd easily be over 500 homers. Oh well...he was a joy to watch from 1996-2007.

I mean, yeah, we can bemoan Jones not aging gracefully, but he still put up +67 WAR in his career, which is top 10 all-time at his position. His career trajectory was very similar to Griffey's, yet no one thinks Griffey wasted his career.

It's a little harsh to say someone threw away their career just because they didn't end up as one of the greatest players in the game's history.

[Sportsforever]

Quote: Originally Posted by Chip Douglass

I mean, yeah, we can bemoan Jones not aging gracefully, but he still put up +67 WAR in his career, which is top 10 all-time at his position. His career trajectory was very similar to Griffey's, yet no one thinks Griffey wasted his career. It's a little harsh to say someone threw away their career just because they fell off the "greatest of all-time" track to merely "objectively good Hall candidate but might not get in".

My comment is based on the fact that Jones openly eschewed physical training and loved fast food. I don't know if it would have made a difference...he came up young and put a LOT of miles on his body (he played nearly every game plus post-season for almost 10 seasons), so maybe he would have broken down like Griffey did.

I am with you...I think he's a HOF'r regardless. I'm just bemoaning what could have been if he had taken care of himself. Would have loved to see him stay in shape and continue to put up decent numbers well into his 30's.

[Chip Douglass]

Quote: Originally Posted by Sportsforever

My comment is based on the fact that Jones openly eschewed physical training and loved fast food. I don't know if it would have made a difference...he came up young and put a LOT of miles on his body (he played nearly every game plus post-season for almost 10 seasons), so maybe he would have broken down like Griffey did. I am with you...I think he's a HOF'r regardless. I'm just bemoaning what could have been if he had taken care of himself. Would have loved to see him stay in shape and continue to put up decent numbers well into his 30's.

Good points. Also, Jones was never a great (or even good) hitter and most of his value was tied to his defense, which tends to peak early.

Maybe he could have hung around as a decent role player in his 30s had he lifted weights instead of cheeseburgers, but again, I don't think that should considerably alter our view of him. This is where peak performance >>> longevity.

[Sportsforever]

Quote: Originally Posted by Chip Douglass

Good points. Also, Jones was never a great (or even good) hitter and most of his value was tied to his defense, which tends to peak early. Maybe he could have hung around as a decent role player in his 30s had he lifted weights instead of cheeseburgers, but again, I don't think that should considerably alter our view of him. This is where peak performance >>> longevity.

Trust me...he's one of my favorite of all time, so I'm all on board. BTW - I did a study a few years ago and as far as I can tell Andruw is #3 for HOF'rs/potential HOF'rs in terms of WAR contribution coming from defensive stats. Brooks Robinson is #2, driving roughly 48% of his WAR from his glove, while Andruw comes in at nearly 40% coming from his glove. Ozzie Smith comes in at #1, deriving roughly 55% of his value from his glove.

[DrJones]

1. 400+ HR
2. Spectacular D in CF
3. Got fat on cheeseburgers
4. Gold Club testimony

The man is a hero.

[Speedy]

As appreciative as I am with Pujols, I still think Andruw should've won the 2005 NL MVP. No way that team comes close to a division championship with all those rookies without him.