Contract Hold Outs

**Yeah...THAT Guy** · 08-10-2010, 05:16 PM

Re: Contract Hold Outs

I could very well be wrong about this, but I think a lot of people just get mad because it hurts their team and the fact that the player agreed to the contract already and should respect it. Not to mention the fact that they're saying that getting 5 million dollars in one year isn't enough.

**dsallupinyaarea** · 08-10-2010, 05:28 PM

Re: Contract Hold Outs

But when a team cuts a player under contract why aren't they treated with the same judgement. They agreed to a contract and they should honor it. It seems like a bit of a double standard.

**metallicatz** · 08-10-2010, 05:41 PM

Re: Contract Hold Outs

I don't have a problem with players holding if they are paid way below their production AND have been doing it on a consistent basis for a few seasons or so. Where I run into problems with it is when a player has 1 great year and thinks his paycheck should be tops in the league. I also have no respect for players that hold out for a contract, get it, and then hold out again a year or two later for another one.

As for the argument about player shelf life, It's not the NFL teams' responsibility to set these players up for life. Players of yesteryear had to figure out a career for themselves after football. If this current crop of players don't like the way the system is set up...they can try their hand at alternative means of employment. Most end up broke anyway a few short years out of the league. It's not the NFL's responsibility to compensate for the stupidity factor in many of these players as far as fiscal responsibility. Playing in the NFL is a priveledge, not an entitlement. Enjoy the paycheck while you can get it, but plan for life after football.

**dsallupinyaarea** · 08-10-2010, 05:54 PM

Re: Contract Hold Outs

Originally posted by metallicatz

I don't have a problem with players holding if they are paid way below their production AND have been doing it on a consistent basis for a few seasons or so. Where I run into problems with it is when a player has 1 great year and thinks his paycheck should be tops in the league. I also have no respect for players that hold out for a contract, get it, and then hold out again a year or two later for another one.

As for the argument about player shelf life, It's not the NFL teams' responsibility to set these players up for life. Players of yesteryear had to figure out a career for themselves after football. If this current crop of players don't like the way the system is set up...they can try their hand at alternative means of employment. Most end up broke anyway a few short years out of the league. It's not the NFL's responsibility to compensate for the stupidity factor in many of these players as far as fiscal responsibility. Playing in the NFL is a priveledge, not an entitlement. Enjoy the paycheck while you can get it, but plan for life after football.

I understand all of that. The question still stands though. Isn't is a double standard that teams can cut a player for under-performing and no one cares, but we criticize players who hold out because they over-performed their contract?

**ProfessaPackMan** · 08-10-2010, 06:00 PM

Re: Contract Hold Outs

I don't have a problem with players holding if they are paid way below their production AND have been doing it on a consistent basis for a few seasons or so. Where I run into problems with it is when a player has 1 great year and thinks his paycheck should be tops in the league. I also have no respect for players that hold out for a contract, get it, and then hold out again a year or two later for another one.

My sentiments exactly.

**Yeah...THAT Guy** · 08-10-2010, 06:01 PM

Re: Contract Hold Outs

I don't know because if a team cuts the player, they can still play with someone else. If Revis holds out, there just is no Revis on that team. A player that's released can get money elsewhere. A team that has their star hold out can't really replace them.

**wwharton** · 08-10-2010, 06:20 PM

Re: Contract Hold Outs

Originally posted by Yeah...THAT Guy

I don't know because if a team cuts the player, they can still play with someone else. If Revis holds out, there just is no Revis on that team. A player that's released can get money elsewhere. A team that has their star hold out can't really replace them.

Very good point. I think people want to compare this to the business world, or the normal world. Well in business you can get fired but you can't demand a raise when you do well on a project with the threat of not doing any more work if you don't get it. You can, but chances are you'll end up fired anyway. There's a hierarchy that no one wants to respect. The players are not on the same level as the owner, they work for him/her. So there is a difference between an owner or coach cutting a player whenever they want and a player demanding more money whenever they want. The difference between the NFL and the business world is that players have more leverage than the average Joe but that doesn't make it less of a **** move (imo). You bring in the shelf life and chance of injury which also make sense, but it's rare that a hold out isn't making enough money to live comfortably on if that were to happen.

This year is a little different bc of the unsettled future of the league and different rules that screwed over players like Vincent Jackson, but guys like Revis and Chris Johnson are trying to cash in a lottery ticket IMO. And I don't like the trend of having a big year and trying to cash in on it before maybe your true colors shine through (if it's not that then honor it or put a string of years on the level you're trying to get paid together and then talk to me).

**metallicatz** · 08-10-2010, 06:24 PM

Re: Contract Hold Outs

Originally posted by dsallupinyaarea

I understand all of that. The question still stands though. Isn't is a double standard that teams can cut a player for under-performing and no one cares, but we criticize players who hold out because they over-performed their contract?

Yes, it is. That's why I believe a better solution is a contract system based on escalators (realistic ones). You hit those escalators and you get paid accordingly. If not, then you don't. If I were an employer I wouldn't want to be bound to paying a guy a ridiculous wage if he weren't performing to the level of that wage, or bound to keeping him if he wasn't maintaining starter-calibur production. Pro Football is a cut-throat business dedicated to winning. As a player you have to know that if you aren't keeping yourself in consideration by your team as a central part of the plan for winning then you're out of there. That's the game. They know it going in. It can be cruel many times, I know, but that's the business.

**dsallupinyaarea** · 08-10-2010, 06:28 PM

Re: Contract Hold Outs

Originally posted by wwharton

Very good point. I think people want to compare this to the business world, or the normal world. Well in business you can get fired but you can't demand a raise when you do well on a project with the threat of not doing any more work if you don't get it. You can, but chances are you'll end up fired anyway. There's a hierarchy that no one wants to respect. The players are not on the same level as the owner, they work for him/her. So there is a difference between an owner or coach cutting a player whenever they want and a player demanding more money whenever they want. The difference between the NFL and the business world is that players have more leverage than the average Joe but that doesn't make it less of a **** move (imo). You bring in the shelf life and chance of injury which also make sense, but it's rare that a hold out isn't making enough money to live comfortably on if that were to happen.

This year is a little different bc of the unsettled future of the league and different rules that screwed over players like Vincent Jackson, but guys like Revis and Chris Johnson are trying to cash in a lottery ticket IMO. And I don't like the trend of having a big year and trying to cash in on it before maybe your true colors shine through (if it's not that then honor it or put a string of years on the level you're trying to get paid together and then talk to me).

oNotPromoteQF/> <w:LidThemeOther>EN-US</w:LidThemeOther> <w:LidThemeAsian>X-NONE</w:LidThemeAsian> <w:LidThemeComplexScript>X-NONE</w:LidThemeComplexScript> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <w

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**cubsball899** · 08-10-2010, 06:39 PM

Re: Contract Hold Outs

Originally posted by dsallupinyaarea

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ontFlipMirrorIndents/> <w:OverrideTableStyleHps/> </w:Compatibility> <m:mathPr> <m:mathFont m:val="Cambria Math"/> <m:brkBin m:val="before"/> <m:brkBinSub m:val="--"/> <m:smallFrac m:val="off"/> <m:dispDef/> <m:lMargin m:val="0"/> <m:rMargin m:val="0"/> <m:defJc m:val="centerGroup"/> <m:wrapIndent m:val="1440"/> <m:intLim m:val="subSup"/> <m:naryLim m:val="undOvr"/> </m:mathPr></w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--><style>  </style> So basically we are conditioned to respect this double standard and live with it? That's really disappointing. thought you were talking about marijuana vs. alcohol for a second No one cares that the Raiders released Jamarcus Russell with 3 years left on his contract, but we get all up in arms that Revis is holding out with 3 years left. Same scenario, the sides are just different. Jamarcus woefully under-performed his contract so he got cut (right move). So why Revis can’t get paid now that he's greatly out-performed his contract? So far all I’ve gotten is it’s the way the world works, deal with it.<o></o>

don't teams suffer cap penalties for cutting players before their contract is expired? or does that just happen when i do it in madden? lol. i haven't looked this up so don't take my word as fact but i think thats what happens. and as THAT guy said before if Revis were to get cut there will be 31 other teams about to put cash in his pocket. whereas if he holds out the jets completely lose his services during the holdout

**dsallupinyaarea** · 08-10-2010, 06:42 PM

Re: Contract Hold Outs

Originally posted by cubsball899

don't teams suffer cap penalties for cutting players before their contract is expired? or does that just happen when i do it in madden? lol. i haven't looked this up so don't take my word as fact but i think thats what happens. and as THAT guy said before if Revis were to get cut there will be 31 other teams about to put cash in his pocket. whereas if he holds out the jets completely lose his services during the holdout

This year is uncapped so the penalties are meaningless, if they even exist.

**ASB37** · 08-10-2010, 06:57 PM

Re: Contract Hold Outs

Originally posted by dsallupinyaarea

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ontFlipMirrorIndents/> <w:OverrideTableStyleHps/> </w:Compatibility> <m:mathPr> <m:mathFont m:val="Cambria Math"/> <m:brkBin m:val="before"/> <m:brkBinSub m:val="--"/> <m:smallFrac m:val="off"/> <m:dispDef/> <m:lMargin m:val="0"/> <m:rMargin m:val="0"/> <m:defJc m:val="centerGroup"/> <m:wrapIndent m:val="1440"/> <m:intLim m:val="subSup"/> <m:naryLim m:val="undOvr"/> </m:mathPr></w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--><style>  </style> So basically we are conditioned to respect this double standard and live with it? That's really disappointing. No one cares that the Raiders released Jamarcus Russell with 3 years left on his contract, but we get all up in arms that Revis is holding out with 3 years left. Same scenario, the sides are just different. Jamarcus woefully under-performed his contract so he got cut (right move). So why Revis can’t get paid now that he's greatly out-performed his contract? So far all I’ve gotten is it’s the way the world works, deal with it.<o></o>

I mean pretty much, the owners are paying you to preform a service. If you don't preform said service then you will be cut. Now if you feel like you are preforming above your pay grade, that's too bad. You signed a contract, and you should honor it until your contract is up at which point you can cash in.

I mean are the owners obligated to give some player a raise every time he has a breakthrough season? What happens if Revis has an absolutely INSANE year this year? Should he hold out and ask for $40 million a year?

**dsallupinyaarea** · 08-10-2010, 07:04 PM

Re: Contract Hold Outs

Originally posted by ASB37

I mean pretty much, the owners are paying you to preform a service. If you don't preform said service then you will be cut. Now if you feel like you are preforming above your pay grade, that's too bad. You signed a contract, and you should honor it until your contract is up at which point you can cash in.

I mean are the owners obligated to give some player a raise every time he has a breakthrough season? What happens if Revis has an absolutely INSANE year this year? Should he hold out and ask for $40 million a year?

Total double standard/contradiction in the same sentence. Why aren't the owners obligated to honor a contract they signed if a player under performs?

**ASB37** · 08-10-2010, 07:07 PM

Re: Contract Hold Outs

Originally posted by dsallupinyaarea

I get that. Question is, why aren't the owner's obligated to honor the contract they sign if a player under-performs?

Because that's not how the employee/employer relationships works?

If I do a crappy job at work, should I be let go and paid for the rest of the year? While it does happen in the business world with buyouts and what not, I guess I just find something fundamentally wrong with someone paying me to do something, and me not doing it.

Contract Hold Outs

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