Contract Hold Outs

**ASB37** · 08-10-2010, 07:11 PM

Re: Contract Hold Outs

Originally posted by dsallupinyaarea

Total double standard/contradiction in the same sentence. Why aren't the owners obligated to honor a contract they signed if a player under performs?

You make it sound like if the owners cut a player, they are taking away any money the player made before that point.

It's not like if a player is signed for a 5 year contract and gets cut after 3 seasons, he isn't being paid for seasons 1-3.

**GreenReign86** · 08-10-2010, 07:14 PM

Re: Contract Hold Outs

The only player that I have condoned holding out this year is Chris Johnson. As we all know the shelf life for a HB is pretty short. So when the best HB in the NFL is only making a little over $500K this year, I find that to be laughable. In Revis' case, I think he could have handled it differently, but still there are currantly 7 players in the Jets secondary that are due to make more $$$ then Revis this season, that too I find laughable. As well, I think he would be pretty dumb not to play this year, as doing so will cost him money, I mean $1.5M is better then nothing, right?

**dsallupinyaarea** · 08-10-2010, 07:36 PM

Re: Contract Hold Outs

So what I gather is the general consensus is:

Over-perform = suck it up
Under-perform = better find a new job.

**p_rushing** · 08-10-2010, 08:07 PM

Re: Contract Hold Outs

The contract means nothing. Players and Owners are paying/getting the signing bonus. The yearly value is nothing and is only there so the player can say I signed for XX and stroke his ego some more. Players don't want a high yearly value because they know they won't get any garunteed money and as soon as they lose their skills, they will be cut.

The players seem to forget that they got the signing bonus and look at the yearly amount and the owner say I just paid you XX amount a few years ago.

**Dewie12** · 08-10-2010, 08:26 PM

Re: Contract Hold Outs

Players should hold out more often. The NFL doesn't guarantee much money. That means players mostly play year to year.

Frankly the players in the NFL get a real raw deal.

I hope the players take it to the owners. Strike for two years!

**GreenReign86** · 08-10-2010, 08:32 PM

Re: Contract Hold Outs

Originally posted by Dewie12

Players should hold out more often. The NFL doesn't guarantee much money. That means players mostly play year to year.

Frankly the players in the NFL get a real raw deal.

I hope the players take it to the owners. Strike for two years!

First of all BLASPHEMY!!!! Second of all, I am under the mind set that most players "Hold out" as an excuse to miss most of training camp, and if they actually get payed more because of it, then hey, why the hell not, I would hold out too. I wish I could have held out from some of my HS football late summer conditioning practices.

**Cebby** · 08-10-2010, 08:43 PM

Re: Contract Hold Outs

Originally posted by p_rushing

The contract means nothing. Players and Owners are paying/getting the signing bonus. The yearly value is nothing and is only there so the player can say I signed for XX and stroke his ego some more. Players don't want a high yearly value because they know they won't get any garunteed money and as soon as they lose their skills, they will be cut.

The players seem to forget that they got the signing bonus and look at the yearly amount and the owner say I just paid you XX amount a few years ago.

That's the point I was going to bring up.

The NFL isn't like the NBA where players get paid a relatively constant salary over the course of their contract.

In the NFL contracts are done where the signing bonus is 20-50% of the contract and the yearly portions are based off the team's salaries so that players don't get their highest paid years the same year.

Just because a player is only getting paid $X this season and Player Y is getting paid $Y this season doesn't mean that Player X is underpaid.

For example, Albert Haynesworth can effectively be cut from the Redskins his fifth or sixth year, but he'll have made most of his contract money by then. That doesn't mean he'll be underpaid after four year.

**metallicatz** · 08-10-2010, 08:47 PM

Re: Contract Hold Outs

Originally posted by ASB37

Because that's not how the employee/employer relationships works?

If I do a crappy job at work, should I be let go and paid for the rest of the year? While it does happen in the business world with buyouts and what not, I guess I just find something fundamentally wrong with someone paying me to do something, and me not doing it.

Exactly my thoughts.

**NYJets** · 08-10-2010, 09:13 PM

Re: Contract Hold Outs

Originally posted by ASB37

I mean are the owners obligated to give some player a raise every time he has a breakthrough season? What happens if Revis has an absolutely INSANE year this year? Should he hold out and ask for $40 million a year?

That's why you have to take these things on a case by case basis. Can't say every player who holds out is wrong, and you can't say you always support the player.

BTW, it's pretty much impossible for Revis to play any better this year than last year. He shut down everyone and gave up 1 touchdown that was his fault.

**legendkiller5** · 08-10-2010, 09:33 PM

Re: Contract Hold Outs

Originally posted by dsallupinyaarea

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ontGrowAutofit/> <w:SplitPgBreakAndParaMark/> <w:EnableOpenTypeKerning/> <w

ontFlipMirrorIndents/> <w:OverrideTableStyleHps/> </w:Compatibility> <m:mathPr> <m:mathFont m:val="Cambria Math"/> <m:brkBin m:val="before"/> <m:brkBinSub m:val="--"/> <m:smallFrac m:val="off"/> <m:dispDef/> <m:lMargin m:val="0"/> <m:rMargin m:val="0"/> <m:defJc m:val="centerGroup"/> <m:wrapIndent m:val="1440"/> <m:intLim m:val="subSup"/> <m:naryLim m:val="undOvr"/> </m:mathPr></w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--><style>  </style> So basically we are conditioned to respect this double standard and live with it? That's really disappointing. No one cares that the Raiders released Jamarcus Russell with 3 years left on his contract, but we get all up in arms that Revis is holding out with 3 years left. Same scenario, the sides are just different. Jamarcus woefully under-performed his contract so he got cut (right move). So why Revis can’t get paid now that he's greatly out-performed his contract? So far all I’ve gotten is it’s the way the world works, deal with it.<o></o>

In the case of JR, it was not a decision made after one year. He was given quite a few opportunities before he was shown the door, and if I remember correctly, he could've stayed on the team if he took less money. I see what you're getting at, but JR isn't a good example.

**Dewie12** · 08-11-2010, 03:21 PM

Re: Contract Hold Outs

Originally posted by ASB37

Because that's not how the employee/employer relationships works?

If I do a crappy job at work, should I be let go and paid for the rest of the year? While it does happen in the business world with buyouts and what not, I guess I just find something fundamentally wrong with someone paying me to do something, and me not doing it.

I am sure at your job the average age of retirement is 30 as well? The average length of employment less than 3 years? The longest employment ever at 20 years?

Nowhere close to the same thing.

Coaches contracts are the worst. How often does the owner/team hold up there end of the bargain? Even if a coach finishes in the playoffs they will still get fired.

**wwharton** · 08-11-2010, 04:07 PM

Re: Contract Hold Outs

Originally posted by dsallupinyaarea

So basically we are conditioned to respect this double standard and live with it? That's really disappointing. No one cares that the Raiders released Jamarcus Russell with 3 years left on his contract, but we get all up in arms that Revis is holding out with 3 years left. Same scenario, the sides are just different. Jamarcus woefully under-performed his contract so he got cut (right move). So why Revis can’t get paid now that he's greatly out-performed his contract? So far all I’ve gotten is it’s the way the world works, deal with it.<o></o>

For some reason you are conditioned to look at it as a double standard. I don't know how old you are or your experience in the working world, but my guess is you're in for a miserable life if you don't start your own business if you can't get past looking at this situation that way.

In short, if you want a job you sign a contract to work for someone. It's not a partnership, Revis is an employee. Once you sign that contract, if you don't do your job up to standards you will get fired. If you do a better job than expected, you get nothing until your contract is up. If you're lucky you can renegotiate that contract before it's up but it's not likely that you can take a vacation to make them think about whether or not they can survive without you there. NFL players have that luxury bc of the nature of what we're talking about but that doesn't make it any different in terms of the relationship between employer and employee.

Originally posted by ASB37

I mean pretty much, the owners are paying you to preform a service. If you don't preform said service then you will be cut. Now if you feel like you are preforming above your pay grade, that's too bad. You signed a contract, and you should honor it until your contract is up at which point you can cash in.

I mean are the owners obligated to give some player a raise every time he has a breakthrough season? What happens if Revis has an absolutely INSANE year this year? Should he hold out and ask for $40 million a year?

Exactly. Being even more specific, the Jets have A LOT of great players on that defense and many with more experience than Revis. He wasn't the only one that performed really well last year... putting that type of talent together will lift the value of a lot of players. If you're any of those other guys then why wouldn't you do the same thing Revis did if the team is expected to cave whenever someone has a season above the market value for what they're being paid?

Originally posted by GreenReign86

The only player that I have condoned holding out this year is Chris Johnson. As we all know the shelf life for a HB is pretty short. So when the best HB in the NFL is only making a little over $500K this year, I find that to be laughable. In Revis' case, I think he could have handled it differently, but still there are currantly 7 players in the Jets secondary that are due to make more $$$ then Revis this season, that too I find laughable. As well, I think he would be pretty dumb not to play this year, as doing so will cost him money, I mean $1.5M is better then nothing, right?

I put CJ in the same boat as Revis for the most part, but as you said, considering the position (HB) and the amount he was making, it was in the team's best interest to throw him a bone. And I also have no problem with the complaining... CJ didn't miss anything mandatory if I remember correctly. Who knows if he would have or not, but it's this time of year when I think they need to just deal and start talking about getting traded or planning to go somewhere else when they can if it doesn't get worked out. I don't agree with holding out.

**dsallupinyaarea** · 08-11-2010, 09:38 PM

Re: Contract Hold Outs

Originally posted by wwharton

For some reason you are conditioned to look at it as a double standard. I don't know how old you are or your experience in the working world, but my guess is you're in for a miserable life if you don't start your own business if you can't get past looking at this situation that way.

In short, if you want a job you sign a contract to work for someone. It's not a partnership, Revis is an employee. Once you sign that contract, if you don't do your job up to standards you will get fired. If you do a better job than expected, you get nothing until your contract is up. If you're lucky you can renegotiate that contract before it's up but it's not likely that you can take a vacation to make them think about whether or not they can survive without you there. NFL players have that luxury bc of the nature of what we're talking about but that doesn't make it any different in terms of the relationship between employer and employee.

Exactly. Being even more specific, the Jets have A LOT of great players on that defense and many with more experience than Revis. He wasn't the only one that performed really well last year... putting that type of talent together will lift the value of a lot of players. If you're any of those other guys then why wouldn't you do the same thing Revis did if the team is expected to cave whenever someone has a season above the market value for what they're being paid?

I put CJ in the same boat as Revis for the most part, but as you said, considering the position (HB) and the amount he was making, it was in the team's best interest to throw him a bone. And I also have no problem with the complaining... CJ didn't miss anything mandatory if I remember correctly. Who knows if he would have or not, but it's this time of year when I think they need to just deal and start talking about getting traded or planning to go somewhere else when they can if it doesn't get worked out. I don't agree with holding out.

Explain to me how that statement right there is not a double standard.

**wwharton** · 08-12-2010, 12:27 AM

Re: Contract Hold Outs

Originally posted by dsallupinyaarea

Explain to me how that statement right there is not a double standard.

Because you are an employee.

Look, if you want to make the rules then you own your own business. That's the main draw to going through the hassle of running your own business. If you don't have your own business then you answer to the person that pays you. I guess you're right (or whoever said it), that's basically saying "that's just the way it is" but that is indeed the way it is... at least in this country. Entering a negotiation for a job, your leverage is how well you can do the job your future boss needs done. His leverage is that he can pay you enough to want to do that job for him (or her). When you sign a contract, you're both agreeing to the terms that make both of you happy, considering your leverage at that time. In short, the agreement is he will pay you an amount of money to do a job to an expected level.

If you don't do that job, it's a breach of the contract... you can be fired (cut in football sense). If you do that job better than expected, you generally don't get more money during your contract. I guess you could say they didn't ask you to do as much as you did so they don't need to pay you.

Don't get me wrong, Revis deserves the money (I don't know about how much he's asking for) but that doesn't mean they should give it to him. Just like if he had an average year coming up and he deserves less money, that he should give it back. It should be what the contract says.

Contract Hold Outs

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