Madden NFL 11: The How and Why's of Hit Sticking

[mike291md]

Quote: Originally Posted by RUFFNREADY

I gues we all have to wait for madden 12.

You're probably right lol but it sure does get tiring having to say this to ourselves every year.

Someone in another thread brought up an interesting idea that the game could become subscription based, much like MMOs are. Rather than stopping work on Madden 11 at a certain time so they can focus on 12, do it like an MMO and work on just Madden. Do away with having Madden 1, 2, 12, etc...give small roster and gaming updates every week and have a huge game expansion come out every year. Just food for thought.

[guaps]

I'll try and make this short

First of all, I found your post to be a great read. I just want to further elaborate on some of the issues you mention.

While EA sports has got the acceleration 'right' for quarterback vs. defensive linemen, as you write, they haven't got acceleration right.

Acceleration is how fast you reach top speed, which the game is not able to simulate. I mentioned this first when EA released the locomotion blog. Think of acceleration as a car race.

Car A is able to accelerate from 0-60 mph in 5 seconds, but has a top speed of 60 mph. Car B accelerates from 0-60 mph in 8 seconds, but has a top speed of 120 mph.

If the cars start at the same time, Car A will accelerate away from Car B for the first 8 seconds, period. After 8 seconds Car B will start to close the gap and eventually take the lead, if the track is long enough.

Now try looking at the locomotion blog, or put Wes Welker next to Randy Moss in practice mode and run streaks and you will see that Madden 11 unfortunately doesn't get it right.

Secondly, you mention Newton's Second Law of Motion (Force = Mass x Acceleration), but if Madden doesn't get acceleration right, and does not have player mass (at least with the current physics engine), then there is no possibility of getting hit power right.

My theory behind the Hit Power rating is, that linebackers and defensive backs usually are in motion (mass x acceleration) when tackling, thus appearing to have more hit power. But defensive linemen would need less speed to obtain the same force due to their size and weight, and because they usually aren't at high speeds when tackling, they get a low Hit Power rating.

If EA Sports were to fix acceleration and incorporate mass into the game, tackling would be function of Newton's Third Law of Motion, Force versus Force, which is the essence of football.

In the above motion refers to the momentum of a player.

[spankdatazz22]

As others have noted in various threads - it's WAY past time for Tiburon to take a balanced approach to developing the game. We should be far beyond the days of 1-on-1 player interaction/tackling but much of Madden (and NCAA) is still like that. You really can't come in and "finish" a runner that's been staggered because the animation system won't allow that interaction to occur. The system of interaction in place limits the defense too much, where a lot of times it seems you have to rely on the luck of the draw to bring an offensive player down. It's just silly this is still an issue in Tiburon's football games at this point. The risk/reward aspect of the hit stick would present a good dynamic is the animation system were up to snuff. But the author does a decent job of showing just how out of whack Tiburon's ratings system is. Doesn't make sense.

[guaps]

Quote: Originally Posted by spankdatazz22

As others have noted in various threads - it's WAY past time for Tiburon to take a balanced approach to developing the game. We should be far beyond the days of 1-on-1 player interaction/tackling but much of Madden (and NCAA) is still like that. You really can't come in and "finish" a runner that's been staggered because the animation system won't allow that interaction to occur. The system of interaction in place limits the defense too much, where a lot of times it seems you have to rely on the luck of the draw to bring an offensive player down. It's just silly this is still an issue in Tiburon's football games at this point. The risk/reward aspect of the hit stick would present a good dynamic is the animation system were up to snuff. But the author does a decent job of showing just how out of whack Tiburon's ratings system is. Doesn't make sense.

EA Vancouver successfully removed the 1-on-1 animation in NBA Elite 11, and I'm hoping Madden is next in line for that update.

From the NBA Elite blog:
"The number one reason we wanted to move towards Real Physics was to eliminate the two player animations that were commonplace in NBA LIVE.

One of my biggest frustrations in playing last year’s game was how often you lost control over your player due to these two player animations.

...

Integrating physics into NBA ELITE 11 has had a huge impact on the gameplay experience. The animation system is much more dynamic and responsive to both the physics system and the user’s input, defense has been made both fun and effective by giving control to the player"

[GreenReign86]

Quote:

Because second-unit linebackers and backup safeties make up a large portion of the special teams units in Madden NFL 11, it is important to have big hitters on your special teams units who can cause turnovers and provide that one crucial extra position.

I go out and sign players for just this very reason, in my online franchises. And sometimes I may trade for them as well. For instance, I traded for Des Bishop, and Roy Williams. Basically everyone on my special teams has a hit power of 80 or higher.

[spankdatazz22]

Quote: Originally Posted by guaps

EA Vancouver successfully removed the 1-on-1 animation in NBA Elite 11, and I'm hoping Madden is next in line for that update.

The "real-time physics" aspect of Elite and NHL11 seem limited in their own right though. I haven't seen it all, but everything I've seen has been two-players interacting. I haven't seen any video that has had 3+players interacting simultaneously free form in real-time. While real-time physics are ultimately desired, I don't think it's a necessity at this point. It's just that Tiburon's approach to motion-capture seems so inadequate that it's actually worse than what football games from other developers were already doing last gen

[shadthedad]

Great read! In fact it's one of the best reads I have read on this site. The funny thing is that one of my buddies was talking to Jerome Bettis and asked him hits the hardest in the league....Ray Lewis? Jerome looked at him like a moron and said no, all defensive lineman. In Maddens defense, when a defensive lineman wraps you up behind the line of scrimmage, you rarely shed the tackle.

[bmj2k7]

what about brandon meriweather from the patriots, he hits way harder that patrick chung, most the big hits from the patriots secondary came from meriweather, chung doesnt even hit that hard and im a fan of him since he pleyed for oergon, how does meriwether not have an 90+ when hes the only db ive seen stop brandon jacobs cold when they both ran at each other in the super bowl of all games and jacobs has a awesome trucking so why no awesome hit power for him, when most lb's cant stop him head on but he did yethe dosent even have the higest hit power on his own team, and even darius butler hits harder than chung, chung cant even hit that hard compared to these guys so why does he have higher that then when he wasnt even that good as a rookie last year?