EA Sports Sim Community Demand Quick Fix - Madden NFL 13 DE Pass Rush

[LBzrule]

Quote: Originally Posted by briz1744

can't link this but people in this thread might be interested in an article that is linked to a tweet sent to both Donny and Looman on the effect on pass rush of the BSH rating Sorry I can't link but check out their twitter timelines by using twitter search, looks like one way to improve edge rush would be re-rate DLs globally

Ehhh this is why a discussion with them is necessary. It sounds to me they understand improved edge rush as quick block shed and get to the QB. I don't think that's what the community wants because then the Offensive Tackles mean nothing. Just based on the videos I think what we want is:

1) DE's exploding out of their stance faster
2) which results in them getting up the field faster
3) Engagement and fighting towards the QB like in the Ravens vs Redskins or LSU vs Bama; Dip the shoulder and drive those damn feet. OT's can win by steering them past the QB and the QB stepping up. No bouncing, just smooth engage and fighting towards the QB, with good tackles keeping the defender at bay and steering him past and bad tackles getting pushed back into the QB and the block eventually shed.
4) The animation is too slow. That's one of the biggest issues IMO. Of course all we have seen it on is Pro so it might play faster on higher settings.


Making global rating changes tend to never be good.

I guess the first thing that needs to be figured out is what is causing the animation I discussed with the DE's and OT's to trigger? Is it Power Move; Block Shed; a combination of both?

[LBzrule]

Quote: Originally Posted by tazdevil20

try finding a pass rusher that fits the mold of a JPP or Osi Umenyiora. Speedy, with low power moves and 90+ finesse moves. Last year in our league we had guys drafting DL with super high power moves, because those guys were much more effective. JPP had 99 agility, acceleration and finess moves for me and was completely useless 90% of the time. That's just plain awful. It negates the personnel you have on the field and basically makes the teams generic in how they play. JPP is a special athlete who is damn near unblockable for most tackles. That should be reflected in the game. Not with sacks on ever play, but with the proper engagement with the tackle. Umenyiora is an edge speed rusher and will use an outside move very often. Many times if he is neutralized, he'll get blocked up field way past the QB. Do DEs even get pushed upfield past the QB (forming the pocket) in this game? I've rarely seen it if it does happen. Would be nice if it was fixed somewhat for this game and definitely made awesome next year.

The highlighted is very important. IT does not happen. I think they can address that. Everything that we are talking about right now is already in the game. It's just a matter of what is causing it in some situations and not others. Again, the Ravens vs Redskins was the only time I saw it in any of the Madden E3 videos and I'm wondering if it was because of Kruger and Upshaw high power move ratings or block shed. Not sure. I'll go back and look through but I don't recall it happening in any of the Giants, Colts, Redskins, Vikings. I'm going to go back and look through all E3 videos just to look for that. Esshhhh, why? For me, if it is just ratings then it'll make getting the game worth it. If we can pinpoint who is doing it and who is not then it might just be ratings related. If that's the case the fix would definitely be easy.

[GiantBlue76]

Quote: Originally Posted by LBzrule

The highlighted is very important. IT does not happen. I think they can address that. Everything that we are talking about right now is already in the game. It's just a matter of what is causing it in some situations and not others. Again, the Ravens vs Redskins was the only time I saw it in any of the Madden E3 videos and I'm wondering if it was because of Kruger and Upshaw high power move ratings or block shed. Not sure. I'll go back and look through but I don't recall it happening in any of the Giants, Colts, Redskins, Vikings. I'm going to go back and look through all E3 videos just to look for that. Esshhhh, why? For me, if it is just ratings then it'll make getting the game worth it. If we can pinpoint who is doing it and who is not then it might just be ratings related. If that's the case the fix would definitely be easy.

That would be good. I still think there is much work to be done to get their line play to look and behave realistically in this space, but that would certainly be a massive improvement. I was playing APF yesterday and I was paying specific attention to this area. I've got JPP as a gold and Tuck as a silver, both being pass rushing studs in the game. When computer controlled, they would dip their shoulders and rush upfield, while engaged with the tackle, they would try various moves to get free. Many times simply being pushed BEHIND the QB, just like in real life. On an inside move I saw JPP do a rip move then a sping in attempting to get there and he was literally pushed out of the play completely while Romo stepped up in the pocket and delivered a pass. This is what I want to see in this game. Make my elite defensive lineman matter in this game and force the QB to step up in the pocket. Allow my elite pass rushers to matter, and allow me to play with the Giants like they are in real life. Relying on that front 4 to get pressure instead of blitzing every single play.

[LBzrule]

Quote: Originally Posted by tazdevil20

That would be good. I still think there is much work to be done to get their line play to look and behave realistically in this space, but that would certainly be a massive improvement. I was playing APF yesterday and I was paying specific attention to this area. I've got JPP as a gold and Tuck as a silver, both being pass rushing studs in the game. When computer http://www.operationsports.com/LBzrule/card/controlled, they would dip their shoulders and rush upfield, while engaged with the tackle, they would try various moves to get free. Many times simply being pushed BEHIND the QB, just like in real life. On an inside move I saw JPP do a rip move then a sping in attempting to get there and he was literally pushed out of the play completely while Romo stepped up in the pocket and delivered a pass. This is what I want to see in this game. Make my elite defensive lineman matter in this game and force the QB to step up in the pocket. Allow my elite pass rushers to matter, and allow me to play with the Giants like they are in real life. Relying on that front 4 to get pressure instead of blitzing every single play.

Ohhh indeed. Make no mistake about it they have a great deal of work to do to address OL vs DL. But like we have discussed, I'm just trying to come up with something with the front four rush this year to make the game "worth it"; to get people to play defense differently and not always have to rely on blitzing, tricking the OL, or always getting a free runner because the tackles decide to block the second level player. I like their modification to slide protection. They can add options to that later, but at least they did something with it. That right there is going to help my offense alot.

One of the first things I do every football game I get is start with the basics. I go through to see what I'm going to need to do. When I get the game this year, the first thing I'm going to look at is the basic pass rush and how the DE's rush the passer. If I have to hot blitz them ect., Then the first thing I would like to do on offense is work on protection. The last upmteen Madden's I have not worked on protection because I did not like the logic of slide protection. With the way it is now, I will work on that. I always start up front and if the game just gives me a little bit I can take it from there until they give me a lot. But if they don't give me a little bit, I'm not going to feel like playing, which is why I ditched Madden 12 back in February, but was already fed up with the game in Nov/December. We'll see. I wonder when they will release some new videos.

[Big FN Deal]

Let me ask you this LBz since you have been directly involved with Madden devs. Considering you believe and I agree, that most of the pieces needed to make pass rush more realistic in Madden, ie better, are already available, is there some EA/Tiburon "fun" standard, as I call it, likely preventing a change like this?

If realism is still beholden to "fun", ie intentionally limiting the realistic challenge or risk/reward when deemed necessary, in Madden, that is essentially a cap on how much "football" improvement that should be expected.

[ch46647]

Quote: Originally Posted by LBzrule

Ohhh indeed. Make no mistake about it they have a great deal of work to do to address OL vs DL. But like we have discussed, I'm just trying to come up with something with the front four rush this year to make the game "worth it"; to get people to play defense differently and not always have to rely on blitzing, tricking the OL, or always getting a free runner because the tackles decide to block the second level player. I like their modification to slide protection. They can add options to that later, but at least they did something with it. That right there is going to help my offense alot. One of the first things I do every football game I get is start with the basics. I go through to see what I'm going to need to do. When I get the game this year, the first thing I'm going to look at is the basic pass rush and how the DE's rush the passer. If I have to hot blitz them ect., Then the first thing I would like to do on offense is work on protection. The last upmteen Madden's I have not worked on protection because I did not like the logic of slide protection. With the way it is now, I will work on that. I always start up front and if the game just gives me a little bit I can take it from there until they give me a lot. But if they don't give me a little bit, I'm not going to feel like playing, which is why I ditched Madden 12 back in February, but was already fed up with the game in Nov/December. We'll see. I wonder when they will release some new videos.

What was the modification to slide protection? What are the benefits?

Thanks!

[LBzrule]

Quote: Originally Posted by Big FN Deal

Let me ask you this LBz since you have been directly involved with Madden devs. Considering you believe and I agree, that most of the pieces needed to make pass rush more realistic in Madden, ie better, are already available, is there some EA/Tiburon "fun" standard, as I call it, likely preventing a change like this? Big let me clarify. I do not believe the pieces to make it more realistic are in the game. What I do believe is they have animation scripts that look pretty good and make the pass rush from the DE's look good if they speed up the animations. The foundation for solid OL vs DL is not under the hood. I need to clarify that because another poster seemed to think that's what I was getting at and I was not. All I'm getting at is since they have a pretty good looking animation script that gets the DE's to push and drive their legs, why not have that happen a lot more. It will make Madden 13's front four pass rush better and people can rely on the talent they have up front and not blitz all the time to get pressure. If realism is still beholden to "fun", ie intentionally limiting the realistic challenge or risk/reward when deemed necessary, in Madden, that is essentially a cap on how much "football" improvement that should be expected.

To me the fact that the animation script even exists is an indication that they want the game to have that type of realistic push by the DE's against the OT's. What I'm not sure of is how much they want it to happen. Given your DE's are not going to perform any moves, I think it is a good compromise for it to happen on five step, seven step, PA plays. On three step drops, the pass should be out quick so I'm not sure it should happen there. Now that WR icons must show up before making a pass I think they have a foundation in place to where this should be occurring.


Going back through some videos now I do see it at times. It occurred at 1:20 in the following video, only thing I don't like is they bounce first. Why not just engage dip shoulder and drive feet? Why do we need the bounce all the time?



It also happens in this next one at 6:40


They just bounce first which slows things down. If they could eliminate the bounce that would help.

[ch46647]

If we could manually make this trigger every time we select the "pass" pre-play option I would be a happy camper.