The mysterious art of defending

[iaxy]

The game is a joy to play when in possession of the ball. Passing and especially shooting feel (and look amazing), dribbling less so - but generally it is a rewarding experience if you focus.

Where the game drops the ball is on the defending side (against the CPU).

People have already commented on the CPU's over reliance on low crosses and floated balls to the wingers. That is something which Konami may be able to tone down via a patch, but where I really struggle is defending one on ones.

Even when I am in a good position, cutting a passing lane, pressuring with my midfielder, etc. I can't seem to make a successful tackle or force the CPU to make a mistake to save my life.

What's really frustrating is that no matter how much pressure I put on the ball carrier, no matter how well I track back and cut passing lanes, I can only win the ball back if the CPU makes a mistake, i.e. "chooses" to make a bad pass. And this is not a result of my good positioning. In other words, I feel powerless to influence the CPU's success in attack by trying to play football and force them to make a mistake. Tracking back or standing motionless in one position reap the same result.

The only tactic which seem to help a bit is Gengerpress, but with that you rely on your AI- controlled players to make a tackle. It's not actually you as a user who play good defence.

At least with FIFA, if I pressurise the ball carrier from the right angle at the right time, I have a good chance of stripping the CPU off the ball.

So how do you play successful defence in PES 19?
By the way I play on PS4, Top Player.

[lareka]

Quote: Originally Posted by iaxy

The game is a joy to play when in possession of the ball. Passing and especially shooting feel (and look amazing), dribbling less so - but generally it is a rewarding experience if you focus. Where the game drops the ball is on the defending side (against the CPU). People have already commented on the CPU's over reliance on low crosses and floated balls to the wingers. That is something which Konami may be able to tone down via a patch, but where I really struggle is defending one on ones. Even when I am in a good position, cutting a passing lane, pressuring with my midfielder, etc. I can't seem to make a successful tackle or force the CPU to make a mistake to save my life. What's really frustrating is that no matter how much pressure I put on the ball carrier, no matter how well I track back and cut passing lanes, I can only win the ball back if the CPU makes a mistake, i.e. "chooses" to make a bad pass. And this is not a result of my good positioning. In other words, I feel powerless to influence the CPU's success in attack by trying to play football and force them to make a mistake. Tracking back or standing motionless in one position reap the same result. The only tactic which seem to help a bit is Gengerpress, but with that you rely on your AI- controlled players to make a tackle. It's not actually you as a user who play good defence. At least with FIFA, if I pressurise the ball carrier from the right angle at the right time, I have a good chance of stripping the CPU off the ball. So how do you play successful defence in PES 19? By the way I play on PS4, Top Player.

All of them are SPOT-ON. All of them.

I think they will fix the defense, it's not right this way. You stay in front of the attacker yet attacker moves, shoots without getting bothered by it. Tackle - X- doesn't work, so gegenpress and fouling to prevent danger is best options right now. Also it's so frustrating that CPU plays like Spain 2010. Passing the ball, refusing to shoot even inside the penalty box to get 100 % guaranteed close-range shot. They will fix that one too with a patch i think.

Possession and offense is fun, defending is a frustration right now as you pointed out.

[Honome]

The defense changed this year and it´s like PES 2013 again, which was the best defense system of all, IMO.

The X button held doesn't try to steal the ball anymore, it work as the contain button on Fifa, so player on defense will hold position facing the ball carrier. To try to steal the ball you have to press X + R1 (running button). The AI pressure is still with SQUARE and the stand tackle can still be done with double tap X.

Many complains about the AI abusing the low crosses but i think most of it is because of the fact that the AI is exploring people bad defense, you can't pressure all the time in the sideline near the box or else you will be caught out of position or outnumbered so the AI can make an easy 1-2 pass and in that situation it will always low cross inside the box because it have the higher chance to score.

When an AI player in on the sideline try to let the CPU teammate control the player that is marking the AI attacker while your controlled player tries to cover the AI passing options. Just double team the AI when you are in more numbers than the AI, never pressure 2 on 2 or else the AI will make an easy 1-2 pass.

[ImmortalMindz]

Defending in PES 2019 is really underpowered. Or rather, tackling is.

I've now played 100+ matches and I've been paying attention to the tackle and interception numbers after my matches - I almost always have double the interceptions to my tackle numbers and that's backwards. Average numbers in a top level match in the real world usually have tackles about 50% higher than interceptions.

So I think you can defend well enough in PES but something isn't right - it's too difficult to close space on the CPU, which is not only why tackles are so low but it's also why so many CPU teams can pass the ball so well in the final third, because of the space. And because the passing game is over-emphasized in PES, that's why interceptions tend to be high.

I can still defend effectively, especially because the CPU attacking AI is so poor, but something is certainly out of whack when it comes to defending.

[iaxy]

Quote: Originally Posted by ImmortalMindz

Defending in PES 2019 is really underpowered. Or rather, tackling is. I've now played 100+ matches and I've been paying attention to the tackle and interception numbers after my matches - I almost always have double the interceptions to my tackle numbers and that's backwards. Average numbers in a top level match in the real world usually have tackles about 50% higher than interceptions. So I think you can defend well enough in PES but something isn't right - it's too difficult to close space on the CPU, which is not only why tackles are so low but it's also why so many CPU teams can pass the ball so well in the final third, because of the space. And because the passing game is over-emphasized in PES, that's why interceptions tend to be high. I can still defend effectively, especially because the CPU attacking AI is so poor, but something is certainly out of whack when it comes to defending.

I agree that there is too much space in PES. More precisely, the pitch seems to be too large (especially in length), which exposes those huge empty spaces in the middle of the pitch when on the break. This has marred the game for some time now.

But this does not necessarily influence the defending. What I was talking about is the inability to force the CPU into making a mistake. Closing down does nothing, Pressuring the ball carrier does nothing. Containing passing lanes does nothing. The CPU will always find a perfect pass, even when its ball carrier is facing the wrong way. This is unless the code decides that the CPU should make an errant pass (to make it more "realistic"). But it's a false economy because these errors are not as a result of you playing good defence. They are random code decisions to balance the game and more often that not occur when I am not even applying pressure.

Defending in FIFA is not perfect by any stretch but at least you can home in on a ball carrier from an angle and then using the AI-controlled second defendeer you can create a "sandwich" and that strips the ball off if you time it correctly. In PES you cannot do that. It feels like you have to wait and hope that the CPU will decide to make a mistake. It's just not fun.

[ImmortalMindz]

Quote: Originally Posted by iaxy

I agree that there is too much space in PES. More precisely, the pitch seems to be too large (especially in length), which exposes those huge empty spaces in the middle of the pitch when on the break. This has marred the game for some time now. But this does not necessarily influence the defending. What I was talking about is the inability to force the CPU into making a mistake. Closing down does nothing, Pressuring the ball carrier does nothing. Containing passing lanes does nothing. The CPU will always find a perfect pass, even when its ball carrier is facing the wrong way. This is unless the code decides that the CPU should make an errant pass (to make it more "realistic"). But it's a false economy because these errors are not as a result of you playing good defence. They are random code decisions to balance the game and more often that not occur when I am not even applying pressure. Defending in FIFA is not perfect by any stretch but at least you can home in on a ball carrier from an angle and then using the AI-controlled second defendeer you can create a "sandwich" and that strips the ball off if you time it correctly. In PES you cannot do that. It feels like you have to wait and hope that the CPU will decide to make a mistake. It's just not fun.

I hear ya. I think we're talking about the same problem. But I do think the space is related to what you're saying. Every time the CPU receives a pass from a teammate, they have too much time on the ball because our teammate markers are giving them too much space. So there's no pressure, and by the time you sprint to apply pressure, it's too late.

My thought is this is why you can't influence defending - because you can't get to them soon enough because of the space afforded by the marking settings. This is why I'm winning matches and not conceding often but I'll end the match with 5 tackles or less but often with 15 interceptions.

If the marking was tighter, you'd be able to apply pressure and influence play. At least that's my theory, but I completely agree that as things stand, defending is more frustrating than fun, especially on the higher difficulty settings.

[iaxy]

I may be onto something...

I often wondered why my players would run in a "locked" trajectory, i.e. a rigid straight line when chasing a ball (or an opponent). I decided to dig a little and came across a video on youtube, which goes in depth about defending.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6-nKDDzOnw&t=28s

Most of the stuff is common sense and good practice, but one thing which the guy mentions repeatedly is "super cancel".

I was aware of the concept and command (pressing RT and R1 simultaneously) but I only ever used this when I didn't want my player to accidentally touch a ball near the touch line, making it go out of bounds.

This video (and other video by the same guy) opened my eyes into using super cancel all the time when wanting to fine tune the movement of your players. Indeed I can now see how using super cancel lets your players run in any direction you want them to - not just in a locked, straight line determined by the AI. This opens up so many possibilities - not just on defence but also when attacking - you are able to get better angles from which to approach or hit the ball.

I tried last night and it is indeed game changing. Such a little detail, which I had never had the interest (or knowledge) to look into, but such a huge impact on your control.

Combined with gangerpress I now feel much more control over my players and I was able to get in much better positions, finally taking some control back (excuse the Brexit pun). This resulted in many more interceptions and good angles for tackles.
Of course it is not perfect, but this may have saved the game for me and I encourage everyone to try it.

Remember super cancel only works when you do not have possession of the ball.

[Matt10]

I would say this year is the first time in a while that I can defend the same I do on FIFA. I use Legacy defending on FIFA, and this year it feels the same on PES. I control either one of my CMF, and gradually remain in passing lanes. No sprinting around, just teammate pressuring when necessary, however not holding the pressure button for any significant amount of time - unless I see the AI backed into the corner.

Doing this allows my CMF to get back into the box, or at the top, and cut off the occasional low cross or CPU trying to cut through.

When I struggle, and lose matches, it's mainly because my gameplan went to crap or my own self discipline defensively wasn't on point. I know if I'm sprinting around with super cancel or straight lines, I'm in trouble. I'm definitely in trouble if I have to control my CBs too often.