Truzz Ability - goodbye

[Find_the_Door]

Should've never been in the game to begin with and after Lamar's "performance" tonight it should be completely removed. Not one, not two, but three pivotal game changing fumbles in one game with the spotlight on him.

Sorry but "never" fumble while in the zone is ridiculous and incredibly unbalanced as well as super unrealistic as evidenced by his play tonight.

[CM Hooe]

Meh. I'm sure you could pick apart any ability in the game if you really wanted to.

Does Jamal Adams never miss a de-cleater tackle when he attempts one? He never will in Madden (Enforcer). Is Nick Chubb guaranteed to break the first tackle attempted against him in a given play? He will in Madden once you activate Freight Train. Does Kenny Clark single-handedly destroy every single Inside Zone run play executed against the Packers in real life? Of course not, but he does in Madden with the Inside Stuff ability.

The thing about video games is they are abstractions. We have to accept that the game designers are actively going to break from reality in order to create a toy which creatively engages the user's brain fitting the various pieces together in the effort to produce a successful outcome.

If our rules for game design are stuck within the strict confines of "sim" - they are not, they never have been, and they never will be; not for Madden or any sports game - then we should get rid of all the abilities. In doing so, however, we immediately and objectively make Madden a worse video game because we reduce the possibility space of in-game outcomes and we eliminate strategic options.

Abilities objectively make Madden a better football video game by making Madden conceptually a more interesting video game.

[ForUntoOblivionSoar∞]

Why even use the superpowers? This should have never extended beyond some people have additional arm angles they can throw from, some people are a little more agile than normal, some truck better. I hate that these things go so far beyond realistic football abilities.

And that’s why I always turn them off.

[ForUntoOblivionSoar∞]

Quote: Originally Posted by CM Hooe

Meh. I'm sure you could pick apart any ability in the game if you really wanted to. Does Jamal Adams never miss a de-cleater tackle when he attempts one? He never will in Madden (Enforcer). Is Nick Chubb guaranteed to break the first tackle attempted against him in a given play? He will in Madden once you activate Freight Train. Does Kenny Clark single-handedly destroy every single Inside Zone run play executed against the Packers in real life? Of course not, but he does in Madden with the Inside Stuff ability. The thing about video games is they are abstractions. We have to accept that the game designers are actively going to break from reality in order to create a toy which creatively engages the user's brain fitting the various pieces together in the effort to produce a successful outcome. If our rules for game design are stuck within the strict confines of "sim" - they are not, they never have been, and they never will be; not for Madden or any sports game - then we should get rid of all the abilities. In doing so, however, we immediately and objectively make Madden a worse video game because we reduce the possibility space of in-game outcomes and we eliminate strategic options. Abilities objectively make Madden a better football video game by making Madden conceptually a more interesting video game.

Objectively NOT true. Reducing outcomes is why rules exist. Too many possibilities is just as problematic as too few. Moreover, these superpowers introduce metas which counterintuitively can further reduce possibilities to levels lower than removing them.

Being forced to play real football is not a downgrade anyway. It’s an upgrade.

[CM Hooe]

Quote: Originally Posted by ForUntoOblivionSoar∞

Objectively NOT true. Reducing outcomes is why rules exist. Too many possibilities is just as problematic as too few. Moreover, these superpowers introduce metas which counterintuitively can further reduce possibilities to levels lower than removing them.

This is exactly what most (if not all) of the abilities do.

The abilities create rules which guarantee outcomes of certain player-player interactions. The abilities were created because Madden players were frustrated by their high-rated players not dominating games because they were at the mercy of random dice rolls allowing them to lose to much lesser players. Guaranteed wins by ability players in turn allows the user to make more intelligent play calls when faced by them.

Inside Stuff is the easiest one to understand; if a defender with Inside Stuff is on the field and the offense calls Inside Zone, that defender is basically guaranteed to shed single-team blocks as long as he has a pass rush point to spend. There is no ratings dice roll, the player with the ability just wins, and the run likely gets stuffed.

Guaranteeing the outcome of certain player-player interactions allows the user to easily gather information and make intelligent video game gameplay decisions in response. Sticking with Inside Stuff - if my opponent has an Inside Stuff defender on the field, I probably shouldn't call Inside Zone. It will likely fail unless I am incredibly careful about how I set up my blocks so that the Inside Stuff defender draws a double-team, and even then it will still likely fail because the player with the ability makes it so. I have to expand my play call sheet and explore other tactical options to move the football. I have to engage with a different part of the game in order to succeed. The ability immediately forces me into a more interesting behavior. To use a chess metaphor, the Inside Stuff defender is the knight on G3 protecting the pawn on C5; if I attack that pawn, I will lose whatever piece I attack with, so either I better set something else up before I try that or I should look elsewhere.

Without the Inside Stuff ability, even a 99 Block Shedding player can fail to shed a block. Arguably this is "sim"; certainly Vince Wilfork was successfully single-team blocked on a run play at least once in his career, and we want things that happen in real life to happen. This reintroduces the original complaint - dominant players can lose to mediocre players. But the moment you say "okay, well just retune block shedding so that 99 BSH always defeats a one-on-one block if the blocker has 70 RBK or whatever", well then you've just recreated Inside Stuff but removed the easy-to-understand user-facing label.

So yes, the abilities are pretty easily a video game design win. Madden is a video game first, and football simulator second. Making the video game an interesting and engaging football-themed set of reliable tools and scenarios for the person holding the controller is more important than making the football real.

Quote:

Being forced to play real football is not a downgrade anyway. It’s an upgrade.

I mean, none of us holding video game controllers are playing real football. Let's abandon that pretense right now, lol.

[ForUntoOblivionSoar∞]

Quote: Originally Posted by CM Hooe

This is exactly what most (if not all) of the abilities do. The abilities create rules which guarantee outcomes of certain player-player interactions. The abilities were created because Madden players were frustrated by their high-rated players not dominating games because they were at the mercy of random dice rolls allowing them to lose to much lesser players. Guaranteed wins by ability players in turn allows the user to make more intelligent play calls when faced by them. Inside Stuff is the easiest one to understand; if a defender with Inside Stuff is on the field and the offense calls Inside Zone, that defender is basically guaranteed to shed single-team blocks as long as he has a pass rush point to spend. There is no ratings dice roll, the player with the ability just wins, and the run likely gets stuffed. Guaranteeing the outcome of certain player-player interactions allows the user to easily gather information and make intelligent video game gameplay decisions in response. Sticking with Inside Stuff - if my opponent has an Inside Stuff defender on the field, I probably shouldn't call Inside Zone. It will likely fail unless I am incredibly careful about how I set up my blocks so that the Inside Stuff defender draws a double-team, and even then it will still likely fail because the player with the ability makes it so. I have to expand my play call sheet and explore other tactical options to move the football. I have to engage with a different part of the game in order to succeed. The ability immediately forces me into a more interesting behavior. To use a chess metaphor, the Inside Stuff defender is the knight on G3 protecting the pawn on C5; if I attack that pawn, I will lose whatever piece I attack with, so either I better set something else up before I try that or I should look elsewhere. Without the Inside Stuff ability, even a 99 Block Shedding player can fail to shed a block. Arguably this is "sim"; certainly Vince Wilfork was successfully single-team blocked on a run play at least once in his career, and we want things that happen in real life to happen. This reintroduces the original complaint - dominant players can lose to mediocre players. But the moment you say "okay, well just retune block shedding so that 99 BSH always defeats a one-on-one block if the blocker has 70 RBK or whatever", well then you've just recreated Inside Stuff but removed the easy-to-understand user-facing label. So yes, the abilities are pretty easily a video game design win. Madden is a video game first, and football simulator second. Making the video game an interesting and engaging football-themed set of reliable tools and scenarios for the person holding the controller is more important than making the football real. I mean, none of us holding video game controllers are playing real football. Let's abandon that pretense right now, lol.

100% disagree. And I’m objectively right in saying your claims of objective truth on this matter are mistaken, as they are by no means necessarily true, let alone the only possible conclusion.


As an aside, having special abilities in and of themselves isn’t necessarily the problem. It’s that a great deal of them are fully divorced from reality. Madden is THE NFL simulator. Tecmo Bowl is there for “video game first” people. This decision was completely wrong. Fortunately they left the ability for players to turn them off — by far the most important special ability given to any player.

They did the same thing with HFA. They just had to have nearly 32 unique, team history or anecdotal Home Field Advantages. There was no need for this. They could have simple tried to mirror reality with this. Fortunately some kind of do. But some are just ludicrous.


What they chose may be better than nothing, but it was FAR from the best possible direction.




Oh, and regarding the “pretense,” each and every year the on the field, generic gameplay gets closer and closer to real football, and credit them for doing it. Guys like Oldenburg, thank goodness they are there, instead of more guys like you (no personal offense intended), because these guys are the reason we have things like more realistic movement at the expense of video game whiners complaining that they can’t guard three routes with a MLB anymore.

[oneamongthefence]

Quote: Originally Posted by Find_the_Door

Should've never been in the game to begin with and after Lamar's "performance" tonight it should be completely removed. Not one, not two, but three pivotal game changing fumbles in one game with the spotlight on him. Sorry but "never" fumble while in the zone is ridiculous and incredibly unbalanced as well as super unrealistic as evidenced by his play tonight.

Tbf he was never in the zone so truzz never activated.

Sent from my LM-G820 using Tapatalk

[patsfan1993]

Quote: Originally Posted by oneamongthefence

Tbf he was never in the zone so truzz never activated. Sent from my LM-G820 using Tapatalk

Now that right there is some funny ****.