Double Reversal (episode 2)

[Streets]

What’s up everyone! Slymm and Streets here with episode 2 of the critically acclaimed “Double Reversal”. As always, any questions you guys want us to mull over concerning the current product in the WWE, throw it out there and maybe we’ll answer it next week. Hope you guys enjoy.

Vicki Guerrero: Good at her job or just annoying?

"I'm good at my job!!!"

Slymm’s Chance:
Let’s face it; I know how everyone on this forum feels about Vicki. I happen to disagree with the popular opinion and actually believe that she is one of the best heels that we have in pro-wrestling today. Vicki became a WWE regular in 2006 at that time she made her first heel turn. Go ahead and YouTube some of her first appearances. She had absolutely no charisma, and could barely recite her lines. Fast forward to 2010-2011 and Vicki is one of the most over heels in all of the WWE. Vicki has even reached a point where the WWE used her to carry a season of NXT in its most prominent storyline. Need to get Dolph Ziggler over as a heel? Pair him with Vicki!

I know people say the crowd just legitimately hates her. Can someone tell me why they would? Most say it’s because she’s annoying. That’s her job. Some would say she only got the job because of her family name. Who hasn’t these days in professional wrestling? When the NWO were on top and getting beers thrown at them they were being top-flight heels. Did anyone try to discredit the job that they did? It’s time that we pay Vicki the same respect.

Street’s Corner:
“Excuse me?!” I said “EXCUSE ME!” Two words. Two words that easily draw the most heat in the WWE (second place award goes to “and I quote”). One would have to be deaf, dumb and blind not to see that Vickie Guerrero is the most hated person in the business. So, how could she not be talented as a heel? It’s simple. She’s just really, really annoying and doesn’t really do anything. Compare Vickie to a Michael Cole. First of all, Michael Cole plays the smarmy, “I’m better than you, smarter than you, and I know it” character (that we all love to hate) so perfectly. Then, he pulls out all the heel tactics like trolling for the Miz, dissing Lawler’s mom, pulling out LeBron comments in Cleveland, calling people fools, interrupting a Diva’s match and standing on the table to talk about how it sucks, throwing water in a dude’s face then running, hiding behind his hired muscle, and yes, being really, really annoying.

In the WWE any heat is good heat, and Vickie is naturally hated. This is a great thing because if people didn’t care, she’d be out of a job. People do care and she’s good for business. But, talented? Nah. Her heat doesn’t really translate to the people she’s managing. Aside from smarks and the internet, no one really cares about Dolph Ziggler. Finally, I’ll end on this note... John Cena is booed by half the crowd every night. Is he just a “really good heel?”. No. People over 15 just find him to be incredibly annoying. There are no “heel tactics” that Cena pulls out to evoke that reaction. He’s not super talented when it comes to drawing heat. In fact, he’s trying to draw cheers. As far as Vickie goes, she’s whiney, shrill, ugly, and in a position of power in the WWE. Michael Cole… Vince McMahon… she is not.

Who is most in need of a heel turn?

Slymm’s Chance:
This may surprise some people but I’m going with the Shaman of Sexy, John Morrison. I am probably one of the hugest fans of John Morrison’s ECW title run you will find anywhere. I think that if you look at some of the stuff that he had during his title run and his dirt sheet days, then you’ll know what I’m talking about. He was just a hundred times more natural and had so much more fun with that gimmick back then. Bring back the red carpet entrance with the paparazzi and make him into a L.A. celebrity who believes that he’s better than all the rest of the “fat slobs” sitting at home and in the crowds. It’s heel 101 people. He’s got the look, the talent, and you can tell that he really enjoyed playing the bad guy back then.


"Be Jealous"

Street’s Corner:
John Felix Anthony Cena. That’s right. First, let me handle my detractors before I make my point. Yes, he is the Hogan for this era, and yes he makes the WWE tons of money as their top face. Yes, he brings in the younger demographic. I get all of that, and losing that cash cow is a legitimate risk that the WWE would be taking (though I believe his merch will sell even as a heel). But even the biggest stars in wrestling, Hogan, Rock, Austin, Undertaker, etc. had major heel turns that shook wrestling to its core. Cena could do the same. No… Cena should do the same. He is not above all those other guys.

Unlike a guy like Morrison who has a face moveset, and is cheered universally (I love heels and even I cheer him), the fans want to boo Cena. Right now, there is a real power differential between the top faces and heels on both shows. The faces are icons, established, over… their legacies ensconced in WWE history. Go ahead and run down the list… John Cena, Triple H, The Undertaker, Rey Mysterio, Big Show, Edge, Randy Orton. These guys are booked dominantly and hardly ever lose. On the other side of the coin we have newer people who snake their way to victories when they win, are young, not established, and have no credibility compared to the faces. We have guys like The Miz, Sheamus, Swagger, Barrett, Ziggler, Del Rio. The most established heel is Punk. The biggest, most threatening heel (Orton) was poached by the faces, and they have been reeling for a long time. Turning Cena not only shakes things up, increases fan interest, creates new feuds, and gives the oh-so-corny Cena character some new life; it gives the faces (young and old) a dominant heel to chase. Back in the day, heels were booked strong and were chased by faces. We had long title reigns as the face kept trying to overcome the odds. Well, Cena is the ultimate odd. Free Cena!

Which “young gun” is most ready for the big time?

Slymm’s Chance:
I can’t even believe that I’m saying it but I’m gonna go with Cody Rhodes. Ever since splitting from Legacy and joining Smackdown Rhodes has turned the dashing gimmick, which I think started just as a gag into something legit. I remember hearing people talk about his mic skills before he got to the main stage and never saw it.

Right now I’d say his feud with Rey Mysterio is the hottest feud going on Smackdown. Hopefully the kid goes over at Wrestlemania and can finish Rey off at whatever PPV took over for Backlash. Then, he can move on to something else. He has the look and definitely has the swagger to be the next Miz in the future.

Street’s Corner:
I’m going off the grid for this one. Woo Woo Woo. You know it! Zack Ryder, while definitely not ready for the main event, is a guy who the company could really benefit from giving a serious push. With the Jersey Shore craze going on right now, Zack Ryder fits right in! The WWE is missing the opportunity to capitalize on this character as he plays the douche you love to hate to a perfect T. If they put some legitimate wins behind him and toned down the cartoonish aspects of his character, Zach Ryder could be a real star in the mid card and could probably be effective there as a face or a heel. He’s talented in the ring, on the mic, and has a good gimmick.

The main event on both shows is pretty stacked, and it’s getting back logged as mid carders are being rushed into the main event on both sides. Zach is the one guy who could move up into a crumbling mid-card and really add some life to it. This man is far too talented to be used in the same manner as Khali, Masters, and Horswoggle. He needs to be pushed beyond “backstage skit wrestler” and is my pick of the week.


With their iconic matchup coming up at Wrestlemania… who needs to retire more, Triple H or the Undertaker?


"One of us has got to go-ahhhh!"

Slymm’s Chance:
I will freely admit that I cannot stand the Undertaker. Never have, and never will. I believe that he should retire. I want him to retire. The Undertaker is classified, in my opinion, as a sideshow. This is how things go for the wrestler known as the Undertaker. He wrestles at Wrestlemania, keeps his streak alive, feuds with someone and disappears during the summer only to appear around Rumble time in order to start the next feud for the streak. Someone please at least name me one wrestler that Taker has put over in the last two years? His feuds are too predictable and boring. At least with HHH there is a possibility of getting younger talent over. Taker basically skates by on reputation. His schtick is still stuck in the 90’s and the freshest thing that they did was the American Badass changeup. HHH at least has a character and some unpredictability.

Street’s Corner:
I won’t argue with anyone who says either one of these two should retire. Still, I’m going with the unpopular opinion and am going to say Triple H, even though Undertaker is my least favorite wrestler, and I actually like Triple H more. Reason being… Triple H is right. He has done it all. There’s nothing left for him to do, and no one left for him to feud with. The Undertaker on the other hand has “the streak”. The streak can still be used as a viable third option for a main event at Wresltemania and increase buyrates. While both guys’ bodies are shot, Taker has also proven he can still “go” when he needs to.

It should be noted that when Triple H wrestles, he wrestles full time. He monopolizes the main event scene and takes large portions of TV time... Pretty. Much. All. Year. Undertaker on the other hand is the lesser of two evils as his returns are seasonal. He’s in and he’s out, surprisingly not shaking up the natural order of things too much. He came in, had a nice feud with Kane putting him over, made Nexus look like a force, and is now coming back to offer a third main event at Mania. Finally, Trips retiring has the added bonus of putting him backstage where we can finally have a wrestler helping with the creative process. He can work with the younger generation in many capacities including in the ring, on the mic, and with character and storyline development. He’s already proven he has a good eye and has made stars of people like Orton, Batista, and Sheamus. Triple H would definitely be addition by subtraction.

[55]

Quote: Originally Posted by Streets

Aside from smarks and the internet, no one really cares about Dolph Ziggler.

Spoiler

---

I digress...

Vickie Guerrero (yes, that is Vickie with an E) is very good her job and I agree with both of you guys to an extent. People hate her, but they are supposed to hate her. Much like any other heel, the whole point of her presence is to piss off the crowd and get under their skin. Then, pretty much any time someone gets the best of her they, in return, get a huge pop. That is how professional wrestling works.

As far as turning Morrison heel is concerned, I really don't like the idea, at least right now. Once WM is over he can perhaps get himself back into the picture since that's when the draft is and everything and everyone basically gets a fresh start. He's a great wrestler and is an excellent worker as well. He also has the fans solidly behind him (see, you CAN get over without being good on the mic) so I like him the way he is.

Cena, on the other hand, needs a turn in the worst way. I actually *gasp* completely agree with Streets about that *gasp* and don't really feel the need to add too much to what he said.

As for my choice, besides Cena (who absolutely needs it the most) I would say Edge. I have just always preferred his work as a heel. Every time he has had a run as a face it was cut short due to him becoming stale. Bring him back as the true "Rated R Superstar" and we've got ourselves a winner.

Slymm hit one out of the park regarding Cody Rhodes though. He has it all. The look, the in-ring ability, the charisma, the youth (only 25 years old!) the lineage, etc. etc. If he goes over Rey at WM (which he should since Sin Cara will be a more than adequate replacement for Rey once he leaves) then the sky is the limit for this young man.

Zack (yes, that is Zack with a K) Ryder on the other hand, no thank you. They blew their chance with him when ECW folded. They had him retire the last ECW Original in Tommy Dreamer and did nothing with him after that. Totally blown opportunity.

Triple H vs. Undertaker? Who needs to retire more? I would say both. For one, I never was a big fan of Triple H and he is right, there is nothing more for him to accomplish, at least from an in-ring standpoint. Get him running the show from backstage ASAP and things will be better. As far as Taker is concerned, have him defeat Triple H this year to go 19-0 at WM which will make next year all the more special in his quest for the big 20-0. Then have him lose next year to put someone MEGA OVER.

[goh]

Vicki Guerrero: Good at her job or just annoying?

Both.

Who is most in need of a heel turn?

I agree with Cena.

Which “young gun” is most ready for the big time?

Depends on what is meant by young gun. I'd say JoMo. If Miz beats Cena it's perfect. He's been around a while though. Otherwise I'd say Drew. I'm pretty suprised he hasn't made it yet.

With their iconic matchup coming up at Wrestlemania… who needs to retire more, Triple H or the Undertaker?

'Taker doesn't get to retire until next WM when he loses the streak to Barrett,Drew,Miz,JoMo,Dolph,Bryan...whoever.

[55]

Quote: Originally Posted by goh

'Taker doesn't get to retire until next WM when he loses the streak to Barrett,Drew,Miz,JoMo,Dolph,Bryan...whoever.

Smark!

[Slymm]

55,

While I appreciate the feedback that you are giving us I think that it is obvious that you are taking shots at Streets that are not warranted. Maybe I'm just seeing things but I think that there is obviously some sort of hate going on here. Please continue to add to the discussion but the shots need to stop now.

[55]

I have no idea what that even means. How do you "take shots" at a complete stranger anyway? Hate? Seriously? I don't hate anybody, especially someone whom I will never, under any circumstances, meet in person anyway. I'm just a guy posting on the same forum as yourself. Nothing more, nothing less.

All I did was disagree with his opinion on a few things, (while completely agreeing on some other things) correct the spelling of two people's names (people that were key parts of the article, mind you) and call him out on generalizing an entire section of the fanbase. What's the problem?

If I had posted an article and/or editorial such as this, I would expect the same types of criticisms (along with praise) if I had said/did the same kind of things.

I did not violate the TOS in any part of my reply, including the picture I posted. If that is violating the TOS then so is calling an entire section of the fanbase (which obviously includes myself and several others here) "smarks" as it were.

Having said all of that, I really do enjoy reading and replying to these things just to see some fresh perspectives about some stuff from other posters out there. If you'd ever like me to contribute something, just let me know.

[55]

Quote: Originally Posted by Streets

55, I just took you off my ignore list to check this out, and man, you have been taking little jabs at me for awhile now, lol! Just in the recent threads, it seems like you have been following me, which is strange since you have been on my ignore list for at least awhile so I'm pretty sure I haven't even responded to you on this forum in a really long time. Obviously, I must have deeply hurt your feelings at some point in the past, and for that I truly apologize. Anyways, I never knew that "smark" or "internet wrestling crowd" were insults. I thought it was guys who kind of know (or try to know) the inner-workings of wrestling. Sort of the OS majority. Trust me that the popular opinion on here (like we all love the Miz and Punk) is not the popular opinion in the general population of wrestling fans. That's all I meant by that. I really wasn't trying to call you out, because as I said, you've been on my ignore list for a minute. Again, just wanted to say that I apologize for hurting your feelings, and I hope you enjoy out future columns! (You're right about the spelling though... no excuse for that!)

1- I post in the wrestling forum as much as anyone else, so I would say that the claim that I have been "following you for awhile now" is all in your head. The forums you frequent the most are this one and the pro basketball forum and those are both places I go often, so it's no coincidence if you have seen my name pop up frequently.

2- You never once "hurt my feelings" about anything. If my memory serves correct, I believe it was you who had your "feelings hurt" and put me on ignore over something as simple as this:

http://www.operationsports.com/forum...post2042022874

Yep, that was it.

3- Couldn't this have been handled via PM anyway?

4- Is there really a need to tell me I'm on your ignore list three times in one post?

5- There is no need to apologize for anything, as you never really did anything to me in the first place.

6- I will enjoy the future articles you guys post, I have no doubt.

7- Damn right about the spelling!

-

EDIT - You just sent me a PM and I am going to read it now...

[rangerrick012]

RE: Vicki Guerrero - I was watching MNR this week w/ my friends who used to be fans but aren't as much anymore, and as soon as Vicki came on w/ the "EXCUSE ME!" they just were like "Who is this woman?" in a annoyed tone. Sometimes it's just that simple - Vicki does a good job of being annoying. She'd the wife no husband wants to have, lol. To that point, my roomie made a joke about "How did Eddie deal with that?" after I told her it was Eddie's widow. To wrap it up, this anecdote tells me enough about Vicki. She's doing a good job of playing her role, and the fact that people want to get rid of her (myself included sometimes) only means she's doing a GREAT job of playing her role.

RE: Cena heel turn. Posted this in Raw thread, but figured I'd post it here as well. Cena heel turn makes no sense at all right now and would have a) no logical rationale behind it - "I'm turning heel because I hate the fans! The same fans I've been kissing up to for 6 years now" and more importantly b) there is NO ONE to take Cena's spot as the top face. As much as I love RKO, he's not nearly enough to be the guy as the top face of the company, and that leaves - Edge? Kofi? A hot-shotted Bryan?

Maybe a Sheamus or Miz turn could help a heel Cena as far as opposition, but would that really work against a heel Cena? Maybe a bit off topic...just want to make the point that the 'Cena should turn HEEL!' crowd really should think logically before constantly making that statement. I'm as much for change as the next guy, but I also realize that Cena is a cash cow right now and face of the company, and it'd likely take a feud w/ a face of similar stature to him (and Orton doesn't fit that bill) for him to turn heel and do it successfully. Just my 2c.