Madden NFL 11 News Post

Madden NFL 11 Blog: GameFlow and The Strategy Pad

05:36 PM - July 30, 2010 by Phil_Frazier

Check out the latest Madden NFL 11 blog, discussing gameflow and the strategy pad.

Quote:


	"Ian Cummings here, taking some quick time out to talk to the community after the demo has been out for a few days. First off, one great bit of info has been the positive response around GameFlow. Based on our telemetry, 95% of games played have had GameFlow as the default style of playcalling. We do realize it is the default option, which can obviously help inflate those numbers, so more telling is that of every single play called in the demo, 80% of the offensive plays and 86% of defensive plays were chosen via GameFlow vs. the conventional way. This is very positive stuff for us, as we obviously weren't quite sure how the general public would react to such a drastic change to the way the game was played. Secondly, I wanted to talk about the primary hot-button issue in the community with the release of our demo, the Strategy Pad. As we expected, this feature has caused quite a stir lately, so we wanted to provide some context as to why we tried to unify our pre-play controls to one location. We realize that the Madden veterans have been using the old pre-play system for years, to the point where it had become second nature. Any longtime Madden gamer could probably change the route of 2 receivers, pinch slide protection, and keep a back into block within a second. Despite the comfort with the way things were, it often caused major confusion for someone new to the Madden franchise or really any gamer who isn't familiar with the controls. I've heard a few comments on Twitter to the effect of "if it ain't broke, why fix it?" Well, when we started looking at data, it was in fact broke. Based on the playtests we ran and more importantly telemetry we gathered from the online connected consoles, we saw some pretty major areas that needed improvement."

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Member Comments

# 61 rooney8 @ 07/31/10 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil_Frazier_EA


	Saw this comment and have seen similar comments before. More than 80% of Madden gamers have a console that's connected to Xbox Live based on our numbers. Our telemetry comes from any game that is played on an internet connected console. Not just from 'online games'. We get lots of useful data. Phil

Thanks for the response Phil. My problem with this is I am an offline gamer and always will be. I connected to online last year for patches, roster updates, 2-3 online games and one game in an online franchise. I was not connected for the hundred or so games of offline franchise I played as there's obviously no need. Every online game is recorded but a tiny % of offline games are but it seems EA ignores this and thinks almost nobody plays offline because it's not recorded.

# 62 TheWatcher @ 07/31/10 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian Cummings


	Due to the overwhelming feedback however, we will be providing the old-style button commands as an option that can be enabled.

At Community Day, I attempted to call an audible and couldn't. I didn't know what the Strategy Pad was for or how it worked. So I asked Ian, "How do you call audibles this year?". He then explained the Strategy Pad to me. I said "Okay, but we should have an option to call up the audible selections like before."

Good that they're doing that now, but... this is a great illustration of how I keep saying you need to have more options, you need to allow users to have more choice with features, but then they put features in and not leave options and it results in a firestorm of complaints. If you have options, you eliminate the possibility of people complaining about being forced to use a feature that they may not be comfortable with.

On a similar note, this reminds me of the whole speed thing with Madden 10 online. At last year's Community Day I said "I wouldn't ship this on slow. This won't go over well". They shipped it on slow, and people complained and complained a lot. After all the complaining, finally they're doing it on Normal. I'm not sure how an option could've been handled for it, perhaps a grouping for players wanting to play at different speeds, maybe a custom game option... I don't know. But I was pretty sure there was going to be a lot of complaining about the default.

# 63 roadman @ 07/31/10 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rooney8


	Thanks for the response Phil. My problem with this is I am an offline gamer and always will be. I connected to online last year for patches, roster updates, 2-3 online games and one game in an online franchise. I was not connected for the hundred or so games of offline franchise I played as there's obviously no need. Every online game is recorded but a tiny % of offline games are but it seems EA ignores this and thinks almost nobody plays offline because it's not recorded.

I'm not sure I'm following this.

From what I read from Phil's statement is take me for instance. I never played one online game last year. Every time my 360 fired up, it connects to the net.

I play all my games on either Play Now or in Offline Franchise. Phil is saying that they have data from my Play Now and Offline Franchise games.

If you turn off the net after firing up your console, you are in the minority. EA can't help that because that is your decision.

# 64 raiders81tim @ 07/31/10 09:52 AM

My only question, is if it's possible to make it an option, why not do that from the start? These guys don't think things all the way through.

# 65 Rocky @ 07/31/10 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roadman


	I wasn't speaking to you specifically, but you made it sound personal. I'm pretty sure if you go through my post, I was for options and finding a solution to this outpouring distaste for the SP. I was trying to point out to another poster that I quoted who stated it was a silly stupid idea in the first place. I was trying to point out that stats don't lie and they had to make a business decision off those stats. Just like they had to make a business decision to put the old way back in. Just thought that one poster was ungrateful, not pointing to anyone else. The final result is it's a win-win for everyone. And no, I didn't think it was irrational on your part because you explained yourself. You have more than 4 adjustments to make on the line, I don't. I play merely offline and have no issues with the SP. There are different kinds of players for Madden, so, I understand that. My only issue is when someone put up a video of Madden 10 and showed everyone how they could set up a nano in 10, but now couldn't in 11. That really put a bad taste in my mouth. Soxfan- The testing of the new method (SP) is all hindsight, though. At the time, EA had to make a business decision based on the old method stats. And like you said, as it stands now, it's a moot point. A win-win for everyone.

After reading the explanation, I somewhat disagree with this. I wonder what the percentage of missed/flubbed control are in every sports game, heck, every game on the market. I would bet a great deal of money that the numbers are similar.

No many how many times I play GTA, I press the wrong button to shoot, drive, etc. And as I play more, I get better at the controls. It's the same for Madden or any video game.

It seems information overload is killing Madden.

# 66 Only1LT @ 07/31/10 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roadman


	I'm not sure I'm following this. From what I read from Phil's statement is take me for instance. I never played one online game last year. Every time my 360 fired up, it connects to the net. I play all my games on either Play Now or in Offline Franchise. Phil is saying that they have data from my Play Now and Offline Franchise games. If you turn off the net after firing up your console, you are in the minority. EA can't help that because that is your decision.

I think his point is that there are probably people, how great a number is anyone's guess, that either never connected their systems to the internet in the first place that EA would never know about.

Also, that there are probably people that lug there system over to where the computer is, or who only drag a cable across the living room, to connect to the internet on their console, to get a roster update, and then promptly move the cable or system back to where it was. These types of people could conceivably be playing hundreds of Franchise games that EA would not know about, because they are not connected to the net, when they are actually playing them.

Now, no one knows how large a number of people those two groups consists of, but it is logical to think that those two groups do exist to some extent. It is also logical to assume that a great many people that never connect their systems to the internet, are the most likely to be playing Franchise in the first place, so it is a little dicey to really judge how worthwhile a mode Franchise is, if you are going by online numbers alone.

I never play Franchise because to me, playing the CPU is boring as hell, but that doesn't mean that I can't see that there is a real possibility that the data that EA is collecting, and even the method by which they collect that data, could be flawed. They wouldn't be the first company to misunderstand its audience.

# 67 Only1LT @ 07/31/10 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by K_GUN


	so on a side note... when using the new strategy pad I still don't know how to: 1. double a WR 2. assign a blitz to a defender 3. take a route and turn it into a smart route ( a route that takes me beyond a 1st down marker) any help would be great? thanks

Not sure about numbers 1 and 2, because I haven't tried them, but number 3 is the same as before. After selecting the WR that you are hot routing, hit R3 (PS3). I assume it is the same on 360, but since I don't own one, I can't be sure.

# 68 Only1LT @ 07/31/10 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2krunk4u


	I feel you. I wanted to see what they had to say about the reasoning as well. You cannot argue statistics. I've been stuck in playmaker before, but square+L2 always cancels an audible. I know this, but I can see how somebody not used to the game would not know this. It all goes back to hardcore vs. casual Madden gamers. In this case, EA is doing the right thing by giving the option to use either one. I would love to know what the online default would be, or if the option will be locked into our personal settings.

Lol. You can ALWAYS argue statistics. I'm not saying that they did or didn't have a reason for Strat Pad. I don't really care that much. I would adjust either way, but to say you can't argue statistics is just a completely false statement, no matter what you are talking about.

# 69 roadman @ 07/31/10 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Only1LT


	I think his point is that there are probably people, how great a number is anyone's guess, that either never connected their systems to the internet in the first place that EA would never know about. Also, that there are probably people that lug there system over to where the computer is, or who only drag a cable across the living room, to connect to the internet on their console, to get a roster update, and then promptly move the cable or system back to where it was. These types of people could conceivably be playing hundreds of Franchise games that EA would not know about, because they are not connected to the net, when they are actually playing them. Now, no one knows how large a number of people those two groups consists of, but it is logical to think that those two groups do exist to some extent. It is also logical to assume that a great many people that never connect their systems to the internet, are the most likely to be playing Franchise in the first place, so it is a little dicey to really judge how worthwhile a mode Franchise is, if you are going by online numbers alone. I never play Franchise because to me, playing the CPU is boring as hell, but that doesn't mean that I can't see that there is a real possibility that the data that EA is collecting, and even the method by which they collect that data, could be flawed. They wouldn't be the first company to misunderstand its audience.

Well, Phil did mention that 80% of the people that turn on the 360 are connected to xbox live.

I guess that would mean the other 20% are not connected to xbox live when they turn on the the 360.

80%, to me, sounds like a good number to quantify stats.

# 70 rooney8 @ 07/31/10 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Only1LT


	I never play Franchise because to me, playing the CPU is boring as hell, but that doesn't mean that I can't see that there is a real possibility that the data that EA is collecting, and even the method by which they collect that data, could be flawed. They wouldn't be the first company to misunderstand its audience.

Yeah LT you got my point. I don't think EA fail to realise that the majority of there gamers are mostly offline but they want to focus on online so tell us that we are.

Quote:

Originally Posted by roadman


	Well, Phil did mention that 80% of the people that turn on the 360 are connected to xbox live. I guess that would mean the other 20% are not connected to xbox live when they turn on the the 360. 80%, to me, sounds like a good number to quantify stats.

I am sure that 80% is how many conected 1+ times. Didn't half a million play once online and never again. I doubt they just shelved the game so they likely were playing offline franchise after that. I very much doubt most offline gamers connect to the net to play offline. My problem isn't understanding the process but that just because only a small amount of offline games are recorded certainly doesn't mean only a small amount of people play offline. Of the 42m xbox 360's sold 23m are live members with around half those being gold. There's your minority.
And when polls like the one below are made people say well (the small minority) offline gamers are the ones who go online to talk about gaming where as (the majority) online gamers don't.WTF? That makes less than no sense. I've brought this way off topic and it's heading for online vs offline so lets leave it. There's a patch to fix this so great.

View Poll Results: Are you more of an offline or online gamer?
Offline	807	71.54%
Online	143	12.68%
About 50/50	178	15.78%

# 71 Only1LT @ 07/31/10 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roadman


	Well, Phil did mention that 80% of the people that turn on the 360 are connected to xbox live. I guess that would mean the other 20% are not connected to xbox live when they turn on the the 360. 80%, to me, sounds like a good number to quantify stats.

You are making two mistakes here.

1- You can't know the context with which these stats are being taken. Ok. 80% of people that turn on their 360 are connected to Live. When??? Everyone gets a free trial of Live if I'm not mistaken. Are they saying that every single day that 80% of people that turn on their 360 are connected to Live, or that 80% of everyone that has at one point turned on their 360 in their lives has connected to Live? I don't know the answer, and without knowing, I can't make a determination of whether the stat is meaningful or meaningless. There are 41.7 million 360's in the wild. If like rooney says, only 23 million of them have accounts, that means almost half of them don't go online and that would seem to invalidate EA's stance that 80% are online. Now you could argue that the amount of people that own Madden would be split evenly among the have and have nots of internet, but that would just be guess work. It is possible that most of the Madden customers fall under the half that do not have Live. Madden has been around for over 20yrs. Many Madden customers have been around forever. LONG before Internet gaming. It is quite possible that the majority of Madden purchasers enjoy the game the old fashioned way that they have been doing for years. Namely playing offline, without a cable connected to their system against friends, family, and the CPU. Is this a fact? I have no way of knowing and neither does EA unless if they do surveys aside from online data. That still would not be the end all and be all either. The US has a census bureau. They send it out every so often. If I don't send it back, does that mean that I don't exist or that they don't know I exist? I guess they will just have to guess and fudge the stats to suit what ever plan they want to implement won't they?

2- The biggest mistake you are making is believing every stat that EA tells you. This isn't an anti-EA rant. This is just fact. Companies skew stats in their favor. ESPECIALLY when they want to justify a decision that is not well received by it's customer base. Look no further than Apple's spin on their "stats" on how every smart phone has attenuation problems to justify why they did not coat the antennae with a non conductive material like every other cell phone maker does. How did that go over? In case you didn't know how it went over, they ended up giving everyone cases to cover the antennae that their data suggested didn't need to be covered in the first place lol.

The bottom line is that stats are always flawed. They are usually the lesser of two evils when compared with just doing something blind, but stats must never, ever be looked at as the end all and be all reason to justify anything. Unless you can poll the entire World and can guarantee that everyone answers what ever question you are polling HONESTLY, stats will always ever be one factor with which to basis a decision, but certainly NEVER the only factor.

# 72 Only1LT @ 07/31/10 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by St. Chaos


	It seems as if it has been forgotten that you don't actually have to have a gold account to "sign in" to xbox live. Xbox silver accounts also "sign in." If you turn on your xbox and have access to the xbox live marketplace, then you are theoretically online, and your xbox is able to be polled by whomever wishes to access it. All it takes is being connected to the internet. You don't actually have to play the online multiplayer portion of a game. XBox Gold or Silver Account + Internet Access (Ethernet or WiFi) = "online." Assuming you havn't disabled auto sign in, of course even then your xbox could possibly be capable of being accessed because internet access is still enabled.

I was just about to reply to you with this point, but you edited it in before I had the chance.

# 73 jamaster14 @ 07/31/10 12:03 PM

Thank you EA for giving us gamers an OPTION to choose which set of controls we want to use. It takes alot of humility to go ahead and agree to patch this before the game even drops, and i commend you guys for that...

going forward i hope that this is valuable for the devs and the community. i hope madden 11 is based around giving the users the option of how they want to play the game:

multiple controller configurations
multiple camera angles
the ability to turn any and everything off
sliders galore
game rooms and lobbies for all styles, along with custom game rooms online

glad the old system is back... maybe a second patch with PS2 controls? those were really the best and we could do stuff like shade WR's or bump 1 guy and play off the other

# 74 SteelerSpartan @ 07/31/10 12:04 PM

Im probaby just going to wait to get Madden until the patch comes out with the new controls......hopefully they are exactly the same to a t....no glitches or anything

It'll probably come with other added improvements.....so Ill probably have a pretty good 1st impression of the game.....It helps that NCAA is a really decent game this year to me

Hope Madden has the Tuning Technology in there too......

# 75 roadman @ 07/31/10 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Only1LT


	I was just about to reply to you with this point, but you edited it in before I had the chance.

Well, that is where I was going with it. St. Choas said it better than I did.

EA is the only one that knows about their stats better than we do. Do they skew their stats for their benefit? Possible, without knowing.

There are some stats that don't lie, though, and are hard to debate. Stats like Prince Fielders OBP vs lefties, righties, etc....... imo.

# 76 jamaster14 @ 07/31/10 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Outkizast


	Personally I think it takes less time to memorize how to get out of an audible you "accidentally" got into than it does to memorize this new way to make audibles with the strategy pad.

Agreed. also, wouldnt an easy fix be to just put a "cancel" button/option in the menu after hitting A/X to get into the audible system? having say, select be "cancel" would fix the issue pretty sufficiently.

As far as strategy pad, i think new users will definetly still get "stuck" in it, since the casual gamer will pick up a ps3 controller... hit the dpad thinking they are going to be moving a player, and the strat pad menu will come up.

i think hitting the dpad and expecting movement is more likely then accidently hitting A/X

# 77 2krunk4u @ 07/31/10 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Only1LT


	Lol. You can ALWAYS argue statistics. I'm not saying that they did or didn't have a reason for Strat Pad. I don't really care that much. I would adjust either way, but to say you can't argue statistics is just a completely false statement, no matter what you are talking about.

as far as getting stuck in an audible????

you cannot argue that.

as far as how many people use the gameflow thing???

you can argue that.

# 78 Only1LT @ 07/31/10 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roadman


	Well, that is where I was going with it. St. Choas said it better than I did. EA is the only one that knows about their stats better than we do. Do they skew their stats for their benefit? Possible, without knowing. There are some stats that don't lie, though, and are hard to debate. Stats like Prince Fielders OBP vs lefties, righties, etc....... imo.

Lol. The stats don't lie. He is what he is against righties and lefties, but what does that mean. Does that mean that he will never get a big hit against a Lefty? Do you pinch hit for every time he has to face one?

I'm a Mets fan, but I also like the Yankees. Both teams have had a couple of managers recently that were TOO stat oriented. Bobby V is very good manager, but he will never be great to me because he acts more like a computer than a human being. He would sit Babe Ruth in game 7 of a World Series if he had bad stats against the opposing pitcher lol. Buck Showalter was the same. So was Willie Randolph to a certain extent. You have to have a feel for the game. Stats can help you make decisions, but you can't rely on them solely. There are many factors to consider for most things. Baseball included. If Fielder is on a 20 game tear, and is tearing the cover off the ball, I might be less inclined to care about his stats vs a lefty if one happens to be pitching, wouldn't you?

Using stats as ONE tool to help you make decisions may or may not be a good idea. Depends on the situation. But I can say with absolute certainty, that using stats EXCLUSIVELY to make a decision, can get your *** fired lol. Just ask Booby V, Buck, and Willie.

# 79 roadman @ 07/31/10 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Only1LT


	Lol. The stats don't lie. He is what he is against righties and lefties, but what does that mean. Does that mean that he will never get a big hit against a Lefty? Do you pinch hit for every time he has to face one? I'm a Mets fan, but I also like the Yankees. Both teams have had a couple of managers recently that were TOO stat oriented. Bobby V is very good manager, but he will never be great to me because he acts more like a computer than a human being. He would sit Babe Ruth in game 7 of a World Series if he had bad stats against the opposing pitcher lol. Buck Showalter was the same. So was Willie Randolph to a certain extent. You have to have a feel for the game. Stats can help you make decisions, but you can't rely on them solely. There are many factors to consider for most things. Baseball included. If Fielder is on a 20 game tear, and is tearing the cover off the ball, I might be less inclined to care about his stats vs a lefty if one happens to be pitching, wouldn't you? Using stats as ONE tool to help you make decisions may or may not be a good idea. Depends on the situation. But I can say with absolute certainty, that using stats EXCLUSIVELY to make a decision, can get your *** fired lol. Just ask Booby V, Buck, and Willie.

Then don't ask Tony LaRussa. He is the guru of stats and has only managed two teams.

The thing with stats it helps you play with the percentages and then you can make the decision.

Just saying.

oops- LaRussa has managed 3 teams, but the longevity is still there.

# 80 jamaster14 @ 07/31/10 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roadman


	Well, Phil did mention that 80% of the people that turn on the 360 are connected to xbox live. I guess that would mean the other 20% are not connected to xbox live when they turn on the the 360. 80%, to me, sounds like a good number to quantify stats.

yeah, you cant argue with the stats. 80% is certainly a large sample. and there metrics indicated people struggling with the controls on some level. if you are going to have a beef with EA on this one, it should be with how they respond to the problem and their solutions... not WHY they responded. clearly, it was wise to respond. i just think their solution was poor, and their track record kind of reflects that.

problem: people stuck in audible menu after hitting A/X
solution: completely revamp the system

why not K.I.S.S. and just add a "cancel" button to the audible menu so u could easily back out. and if the large menu overlay is a problem have a button to hide it like NCAA. most of all, if you do revamp, you always need to keep the old system. at least for a year, then you can use metrics to see how many people prefer the new way. and adjust going forward as needed

reminds me of decisions such like incorporating random blitz angles where guys dont go where the arrow is pointing to combat nanos instead of fixinf the underlying issue

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