NBA Elite 11 News Post

NBA Elite 11 Video: OS Exclusive All-New Hands-On Control: OJ Mayo

10:01 PM - September 13, 2010 by Steve_OS

Quote:


	"Here is the most recent 'Behind The Scenes' clip from NBA ELITE 11. This clip of OJ Mayo driving the lane is a great example of the all-new Hands-On Control. It combines a shot fake to get the defender to bite, one-to-one behind the back dribble move to get into the key, a pro-hop to create space and a layup to finish. This is user v. user gameplay and as you can see the sticks give you more control than you get playing with the button controls. By playing with the sticks, switching to buttons, then back to Hands-On Control, you will really be able to feel the difference for yourself. You'll be able to experience this and a whole lot more in the demo coming soon to both PSN and XBL."

Game: NBA Elite 11Reader Score: 2/10 - Vote Now
Platform: PS3 / Xbox 360Votes for game: 5 - View All

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Member Comments

# 141 dirtypuppet @ 09/14/10 07:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rEAnimator


	No, it's not a perfect solution. But in my opinion it's better than favoring visuals over the proper gameplay balance. Everyone will have a different take on this depending on what you want to get out of the game.

But the problem is not just visual. Being able to jump so high for shot block attempts is also increasing the likeliness of it occurring. From the videos seen so far, it is happening far too frequently (on jump shots).

So I somewhat understand your logic behind the choice but I don't think the balance has yielded the best result.

........ and it looks horrible.

Although I understand your decision, from the videos it doesn't seem like it's the right balance for gameplay/ aesthetics/ reality.

I'll see if some hands on time with the demo changes my opinion (when are we getting that btw?)

# 142 rEAnimator @ 09/14/10 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirtypuppet


	But the problem is not just visual. Being able to jump so high for shot block attempts is also increasing the likeliness of it occurring. From the videos seen so far, it is happening far too frequently (on jump shots). So I somewhat understand your logic behind the choice but I don't think the balance has yielded the best result. ........ and it looks horrible. Although I understand your decision, from the videos it doesn't seem like it's the right balance for gameplay/ aesthetics/ reality. I'll see if some hands on time with the demo changes my opinion (when are we getting that btw?)

Yes, increasing the likelihood of it happening was the intention.

We'll see if that was a good idea once the demo is released and a large number of people try it out.

As for the demo...the demo will be released while I'm traveling through Asia. Which is unfortunate for me because I wanted to be available to participate in the discussions right away.

But you don't know when I'm back so yes, that was intentionally vague

It's not my news to announce. Hopefully you'll find out soon.

# 143 dredre @ 09/14/10 09:25 AM

smh Hopefully everything is a bit toned down 4 demo, I still wanna check tht out

# 144 NoTiCe_O @ 09/14/10 11:28 AM

I liked the video, the fact that tht was all user skill and stick movements that pulled that off. Someone playing the game for the first time would not be able to pull of a mooth sequence like that.

Alot of people are complaining about seeing behind the backs in every video, but you have to understand that it is the user pulling off the move. Maybe its just a fun move to pull off.

Overall i liked that and i cant wait to play it online and see what the competition brings, not to mention EASBA, the best player in the league will be the best because of his stick skills not because of the ratings. I like that ..

# 145 loadleft @ 09/14/10 12:04 PM

rEAnimator, excuse me for joining the conversation late. I think the first problem is that your litmus test is a little flawed. It's true that 9/10 times the shot would be blocked but you seem to not have asked "WHY?"

Using your litmus test as the standard:
If both players were the exact same height and had the exact same reach, jump height, etc. and also the shooters release was such that the ball was released at his full reach the only way that the defender could block the shot is if he could reach or interupt the shooters shot before he released it since the ball would be going up and out of the defenders reach from the time it left the shooter's hand. This means that the why is basically it would take longer to shoot than it would for the defender to reach out and block the shot. Real life has set the precedent and it's that the shooter's animation should be longer/slower than the blockers animation. If that causes a problem with close outs the simple answer is the defender is moving too fast relative to the amount of time it takes to shoot, since real life has set a precedence for that too.

IRL it is impossible to block a shot unless the defender has an advantage, period. That could be his height, reach, vertical, proximity to the basket relative to the shooter, being that the ball must travel towards a properly positioned defender to reach the basket. there's also the fact that that all shooters don't release the ball with there arms fully extended 90 degrees from the floor. It is my opinion too that if you were going to fudge in an area you should have chosen the speed of the ball traveling through the air and allow the defender a quicker but realistic animation for leaping into the air and cause the jump shooters a slightly slower one. Add to that the reach of the defender with arms extended vs. a shooter going through his motion, and if you were to use signature jump heights on shooters I'd bet you'd gotten realistic results too, as a lot of the shooters don't jump really high when shooting and they'd been easier to block than the ones that jump higher or have higher release points. I assume you get the point.

Hope you consider this constructive.

# 146 mlp111 @ 09/14/10 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rEAnimator


	Can't argue with this at all. That's all we can ask of anyone.

man i have to be honest and say THANK YOU MAN, you commented on almost every post here........ MUCH RESPECT FOR THAT, MUCH RESPECT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

# 147 Tomba @ 09/14/10 12:23 PM

Can't wait to play this now

# 148 HoosierDaddy @ 09/14/10 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rEAnimator


	I had a long PM message with Da_Czar where I explained our reasoning on the high verticals for blocking. I have to run in a second (in korea at the korean games conference about to give my presentation) but I'll give it a quick go here. Yes the verticals are unrealistic. But we did that intentionally to make another aspect of the game more realistic. Basically, we took real life scenarios and tested them out in the game to make sure the game was responding like real life. So take two equally tall players, put the defender right up on the ball carrier and and tell the defender "I'm going to shoot the ball in 3 seconds" and then do it. In real life, the defender should block that shot 9/10 times. In our game at the time, with realistic verticals, you could never, and I mean never, block that shot. The reasons are reaction delay, the time it took the animation to play out with the proper gather, and the general controller latency. So we tuned the game until we got a real life result for that scenario. We then proceeded to do the same thing with a ton of other real life scenarios. What you're left with is a game that "controls" like real life, gives realistic results, but sacrifices realism in other areas, like verticals and jump gathers. People may not agree with our choices, but you have to admit that it is a perfectly valid approach to building a sim game. And it offers something gamers haven't had before in a basketball game. Usually that kind of thing would be appreciated by the hard core. I'm hoping once the demo gets out people will start to understand better. hope this made sense...so jet lagged

First just let me say I'm about as hardcore as you can get when it comes to sports games. I just want a realistic balance. However...

More needs to be taken into account besides the timing of a shot. The reach of the player, the position the player is in, how fast and high the release of the shooter is, etc...Verticals, globally, need turned down. That's on offense, as well as defense. All players are jumping too high. Results of a blocked shot should be a combination of factors, not just timing. If you have to sacrifice the amount of blocked shots, but have realistic verticals/animations - I'd be all for that. It's all about balance.

http://www.82games.com/comm16.htm

Quote:


	If you exclude tip shots, which are very rarely blocked, the overall percentage of shots that have been re-directed in the NBA this season is 6.6%, or in other words about one out of every fifteen shots. Jumper 3.8% Close Up 14.2% Dunks 2.7% Totals 6.6%

Why can't stats like these be implemented with Synergy to reflect real-life statistics? I understand it's user-controlled, but it's also realistic to have around 5 BPG on average per team and have it somewhat life like. If you can reflect the stats to show more blocks in the paint and less on jumpshots, as well as incorporate all of the factors into blocking shots we've mentioned, it could help with your verticals issues, as well.

# 149 da ThRONe @ 09/14/10 01:05 PM

The more I watch the less I'm impressed with the RTP's and really dont understand how its special. I understand you cant judge how it feels by watching clips ,but certain basic physics principles are being ignored just by watching clips of this game.

# 150 da ThRONe @ 09/14/10 01:14 PM

Jumping in basketball is too important of an action to purposely get it wrong for any reason. I'm sorry nobody in the decision making process feels this way. Like mentioned I would much rather have blocks be rare(especially on jumpshots because they do rarely get blocked) then have every player jumping out of the gym just to have some. This is a mistake in my opinion one that could kill this game for me.

# 151 phant030 @ 09/14/10 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by da ThRONe


	Jumping in basketball is too important of an action to purposely get it wrong for any reason. I'm sorry nobody in the decision making process feels this way. Like mentioned I would much rather have blocks be rare(especially on jumpshots because they do rarely got blocked) then have every player jumping out of the gym just to have some. This is a mistake in my opinion one that could kill this game for me.

I feel you. The concern with jump shots is contesting, making sure you get a hand up...not w/ blocking it. smh

# 152 Playmakers @ 09/14/10 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 23


	Wow man that vertical is just wrong, and to think they dont even bend their knees much to get that kind of air I appreciate the video man, but whats up with regressing to these clips again? I see the same old behind the back dribble move to get to the bucket.. kinda reminds me of how everyone would do the skipping after every made bucket in Live 10

I'm lowering that crap down....

I can't play with guys jumping out the gym like kangeroos all over the floor.

All verticals are coming down to 50 and below once again this year. I can't believe they keep doing this every year.

# 153 Jamesmaster @ 09/14/10 02:29 PM

The animations look a lot better than in any other Elite video, but the clip is way too short to get a good impression.

# 154 sportyguyfl31 @ 09/14/10 02:36 PM

Hey rEAnimator...first let me say that you have been as stand up as one can ask for.

I like this clip, howeer, can you address the collision detection when it comes to the hop step?

It seems as if the hop step and gather disrespects the defender's postion.

One of my favorite things about Live 10 was I felt like the defender's position was honored, and you couldnt just slide off of a guy to get to the basket.

Care to shed some light on that?

Good job. Im looking forward to the demo and the game.

# 155 ccoaxum @ 09/14/10 02:52 PM

just to let everybody knw they did put on the game the ability to adjust verticals

# 156 NINJAK2 @ 09/14/10 03:16 PM

I liked that vid. The control looked very fluid..

# 157 Pared @ 09/14/10 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NINJAK2


	I liked that vid. The control looked very fluid..

It IS very fluid. The complaints don't hold too much water, IMO.

People want to complain about other things but in the scope of JUST THIS VIDEO, what you're shown is pretty solid. However, the comments about traveling/walk/etc. are valid.

The biggest plus is that is COMPLETELY user controlled.

# 158 Playmakers @ 09/14/10 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ccoaxum


	just to let everybody knw they did put on the game the ability to adjust verticals

That's always been in the game....LOL!

I think people are just upset it's something we have to always fix ourselves when EA could just take care of it.

It's not like we haven't shown them before that verticals need to be reduced. For crying out loud their own people tested this last year and then decided to release a patch or DNA update with the reduced verticals.

Guys blocking shots out on the perimeter all game and dudes taking off from crazy places and dunking. That has always been because of the dreaded vertical's being unrealistic.

# 159 Tha_Kid @ 09/14/10 04:08 PM

The thing is, they actually went in the opposite direction and increased the verticals. If the verticals are a purely visual thing (in the sense that different things aren't happening due to the vertical) and the gameplay results are suitably realistic I might be able to deal. I'll probably drop them regardless (assuming I like the demo enough to use credits toward Elite)

# 160 ILLSmak @ 09/14/10 04:24 PM

Wow, man NBA Elite is up and down for me. Right now, this looks really cool. I wonder if there's a way to have that meter on the screen (the shot meter.) The one thing I hated about Live 10 (even Live 09 had 3 point shoot out so you could find people's releases...) is that I never could get everyone's release. I'd like to know when I am releasing it perfectly.

I can hit FTs online w/ Shaq on superstar... so I mean if I just knew when and how to release it, I could be hitting some amazing shots.

-Smak

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