02:47 PM - August 12, 2016 by seasprite
Cookieboy17 has posted a new Madden NFL 17 video featuring the New England Patriots vs. Arizona Cardinals.
Madden NFL 17 News Post
02:47 PM - August 12, 2016 by seaspriteMember Comments
Really seems like these gameplay videos are doing more harm than good at this point.
Clint just responded to this subject
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Most of the videos left me feeling very excited to play, always will be some negatives.
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# 25
howboutdat @ 08/13/16 09:11 AM
So let me get this striaght, just because his Accel is 80, that alone gives him ability to sprint that fast for over 3 seconds. i mean as fast as a wr. Shouldnt his speed also , somehow play into that.
Like shouldn't a player with 88 speed , 80 accel be able to run faster than a 64 speed 80 accel anyone? Seems to me if a players speed rating is low, even with a higher accel, he should still be slow. Accel i thought just got you up to your top speed faster the higher it is....So this 64 speed guy could get to his top speed of "64" faster than someone with 65 accel.... What am im missing here?
Like shouldn't a player with 88 speed , 80 accel be able to run faster than a 64 speed 80 accel anyone? Seems to me if a players speed rating is low, even with a higher accel, he should still be slow. Accel i thought just got you up to your top speed faster the higher it is....So this 64 speed guy could get to his top speed of "64" faster than someone with 65 accel.... What am im missing here?
# 26
SolidSquid @ 08/13/16 09:56 AM
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It should be a goal of all sports game to first and foremost represent their sport in the most authentic of manners.
# 27
aholbert32 @ 08/13/16 10:05 AM
:50 is the main reason I rarely if ever watch preview videos anymore.
I know I'm gonna buy the game.
I know I'm not going to play the game the way the video guys do.
I know I'm likely to play on a higher difficulty level or with sliders which will make the game play different.
I know I'm gonna tweak or use a roster that tweaks the ratings to make them more realistic.
I dont play online much or against people who would do stuff like that so it doesnt bother me.
That doesnt mean they shouldnt fix things like this
These videos are for people who arent sure they are going to buy the game or who need a Madden fix before next week.
I know I'm gonna buy the game.
I know I'm not going to play the game the way the video guys do.
I know I'm likely to play on a higher difficulty level or with sliders which will make the game play different.
I know I'm gonna tweak or use a roster that tweaks the ratings to make them more realistic.
I dont play online much or against people who would do stuff like that so it doesnt bother me.
That doesnt mean they shouldnt fix things like this
These videos are for people who arent sure they are going to buy the game or who need a Madden fix before next week.
I'm content with their explanation. I understand it's a video game and not everything can be turned perfectly. I am put off by the "well then run the ball at this user" comment. There are yearly exploits in this game. This might be one of them. It could potentially be super easy to engage with the OL, see it's a pass, and then sprint back (i.e. this exact play). After a couple days none of us are fooled by PA plays because the camera tips them off.
# 29
playajay98 @ 08/13/16 10:19 AM
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Is it me or does the zone defense look toned down? It looks super weak in some areas. I see two players covering the same area, DBs covering empty space and players not properly passing off routes and staying in their zone. The flats with crossing routes look just as deadly as in 16.
I'm really not happy about the state of the of the game right now. It looks like they sped up the game play as well. I really don't even see to much of the gap play and the force/cutback defenders. It was much easier to identify in older madden videos. Now it is starting to look like the same old Madden where all you need to do is run the same play over and over.
I'm really not happy about the state of the of the game right now. It looks like they sped up the game play as well. I really don't even see to much of the gap play and the force/cutback defenders. It was much easier to identify in older madden videos. Now it is starting to look like the same old Madden where all you need to do is run the same play over and over.
Alan Branch!! aka "The Ultimate Defensive Weapon!!" Hahaha
All jokes aside.. The game is improving.
All jokes aside.. The game is improving.
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Winner winner chicken dinner
Speed threshold will fix that✔️✔️
And some global edits
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Lol. Well, it was user controlled. He did move slower than a LB, I'd say, but don't get me wrong, I don't want to see that, either. I don't think the CPU, by itself, would move the DT quite that well (although, maybe they can, lol).
Edit: sorry, realized some others already discussed this. I just hopped in the discussion a little late. U can disregard. [emoji41]
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A player who runs 40 yards in 5 seconds (roughly Alan Branch) is running an average velocity of 16.4 miles per hour. Meanwhile a player who runs 40 yards in 4.4 seconds (many "faster" NFL wide receivers, but not the fastest) is running an average velocity of 18.6 miles per hour. At 16.4 mph, Branch can cover twenty yards (roughly the distance he ran on this play to cover the pass) in 2.5 seconds. The 18.6 mph WR covers twenty yards in 2.2 seconds. A difference of 0.3 seconds. For perspective, the average human takes between 0.3 and 0.4 seconds to blink his eye lids.
Further, the nearby receivers on this play are not running vertical patterns down the field, they are running across the field in post and crossing patterns. As such, using trigonometry we know that their apparent downfield straight-line velocity (i.e. the distance they run along the edge of the triangle rather than the hypotenuse) is decreased. If the 4.4 receiver makes even as much as a 30 degree cut (roughly the angle Fitzgerald takes on his route, he makes his cut after about five yards), he reduces his downfield velocity to 16.1 miles per hour; he's still running 18.6 miles per hour, but he's no longer running perpendicular to the goal line, so the vertical component of his velocity vector is reduced. Branch, who is still running perpendicular to the goal line, has a downfield straight-line speed which is actually faster than the 4.4 wide receiver at this point, because he's not running at an angle. As such, he catches up.
As speed is currently modeled in Madden, using math we find that it's perfectly reasonable for Alan Branch to keep up in this specific scenario. Again, where I take issue with this is that in real life a defensive lineman struggles to maintain his maximum velocity for even 25 yards, whereas in Madden, any player can maintain his maximum speed for at least 40 yards (and that's with STA at zero).
# 35
SolidSquid @ 08/13/16 11:50 PM
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Let's call a spade a spade, this is one area (player movement/locomotion) where madden actively seeks to not be sim. They need user controlled players to be able to do superhuman things regardless of ratings for the sake of "fun". It's fine though bc not everyone plays that way.
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# 37
SolidSquid @ 08/14/16 01:42 PM
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Feel free to present a counter-point backed up with your own math, rather than just saying "you're wrong because I say you are". The latter isn't reasonable or productive discourse.
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As someone who tested player running speeds extensively to help calibrate data conversions to SPD and ACC for FBGratings, I'm confident in offering this opinion decisively.
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Moreover, I'm using average velocity in my math and not momentary velocity, which really doesn't really matter in this case because it doesn't affect the total time it takes either player to achieve the required distance.
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The ball is snapped. Branch engages the guard, disengages immediately, then starts sprinting backwards. He's not "dropping into coverage" with a DB backpedal and hip swivel, he literally plants his foot and sprints towards the opposite end zone as fast as he can. As mentioned above, the relevant receiver, Fitzgerald, gets bumped coming out of his stance off the line, slowing him down momentarily, before he immediately turns his route towards the field side of the play. How much he turns is hard to tell given the perspective of the camera, so I've estimated he turns 30 degrees east away from perpendicular to the goal line. The quarterback then holds the ball for another two full seconds before throwing the ball, which is enough time for Branch to run 20 yards from the line of scrimmage to the destination of the throw as demonstrated by the math I provided. As it stands, Fitzgerald still got further down the field than Branch did (so my angle estimate is probably wrong), but the throw is so low that Branch really doesn't have to do anything but get in the way to defend the pass.
Please tell me what is wrong with my description.
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Further, the gap between drag race cars is pronounced at small time differences because those cars are moving at hundreds of miles per hour. Football players don't move nearly that fast. A defensive lineman running north at an average velocity of 16.4 mph for two seconds covers 16.04 yards due north, and a receiver running north at 18.6 mph for two seconds covers 18.18 yards due north. However, the receiver isn't running true north; he's running at 18.6 mph at a 30 degrees east from north for two seconds (so an actual north-bound speed of 16.1 mph, via Pythagorean theorem). In two seconds at 16.1 mph he covers 15.74 yards due north. He also covers 9.3 yards due east, because he's still actually moving 18.6 mph, but at an angle. Since Fitzgerald runs towards Branch and never crosses his face or behind him, the east distance component doesn't matter. We can easily see, then, that Branch at his maximum speed moving directly north is moving north faster than Fitzgerald is while Fitz runs his route which is angled away from true north. Branch beats Fitzgerald to the spot by nine inches.
Math.
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Seriously y'all, the intent of my post was to correctly identify where Madden could stand to improve something, that being their simplified model of player acceleration, top speed, and fatigue. At the same time, however, my point is also that what's happening in this play isn't outright ridiculous, other than the user's decision to drop Branch into deep coverage and his opponent's response to throw a pass directly at him and into triple coverage.
[quote=CM Hooe;2048335638]I certainly did just use math to make a point.
I'm not a racing fan, but I have indeed watched a drag race or two on ESPN2. Maybe you can tell me differently, but the few I have watched, the cars never turn.
Further, the gap between drag race cars is pronounced at small time differences because those cars are moving at hundreds of miles per hour. Football players don't move nearly that fast. A defensive lineman running north at an average velocity of 16.4 mph for two seconds covers 16.04 yards due north, and a receiver running north at 18.6 mph for two seconds covers 18.18 yards due north. However, the receiver isn't running true north; he's running at 18.6 mph at a 30 degrees east from north for two seconds (so an actual north-bound speed of 16.1 mph, via Pythagorean theorem). In two seconds at 16.1 mph he covers 15.74 yards due north. He also covers 9.3 yards due east, because he's still actually moving 18.6 mph, but at an angle. Since Fitzgerald runs towards Branch and never crosses his face or behind him, the east distance component doesn't matter. We can easily see, then, that Branch at his maximum speed moving directly north is moving north faster than Fitzgerald is while Fitz runs his route which is angled away from true north. Branch beats Fitzgerald to the spot by nine inches.
Math.
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You are speaking as though Madden is tightly coupled with the "math" you are applying to it. I see CBs with 87 speed "pressed" up on WR's with 95 speed, and the WR cant run past the CB simply because the CB is playing a cover 3 deep zone(because in Madden world because you are in a blue Deep zone that negates the fact you are slower, so we will allow you to back peddle just as fast as the WR is sprinting) Where is your math then ?
Math is thrown out the window in this game and is replaced with warping, sliding, and whatever else they must do to speed / slow the game down to make whatever feature they are trying to implement work.
Lets not talk about it like yall like to do every year pre-launch. Yall are the "game changers" Show us these vids of your math in action. Show me the vids of this new "gap assignments" working. Show some vids of these new match up zones working as advertised.
Every year yall post all this stuff about how great the game is gonna be then we all find out later that it ain't quite what yall hyped it up to be and the devs end up having to reintroduce the stuff next year as blah blah 2.0, updated and improved, or slap a new name on a 3 year old feature
I'm not a racing fan, but I have indeed watched a drag race or two on ESPN2. Maybe you can tell me differently, but the few I have watched, the cars never turn.
Further, the gap between drag race cars is pronounced at small time differences because those cars are moving at hundreds of miles per hour. Football players don't move nearly that fast. A defensive lineman running north at an average velocity of 16.4 mph for two seconds covers 16.04 yards due north, and a receiver running north at 18.6 mph for two seconds covers 18.18 yards due north. However, the receiver isn't running true north; he's running at 18.6 mph at a 30 degrees east from north for two seconds (so an actual north-bound speed of 16.1 mph, via Pythagorean theorem). In two seconds at 16.1 mph he covers 15.74 yards due north. He also covers 9.3 yards due east, because he's still actually moving 18.6 mph, but at an angle. Since Fitzgerald runs towards Branch and never crosses his face or behind him, the east distance component doesn't matter. We can easily see, then, that Branch at his maximum speed moving directly north is moving north faster than Fitzgerald is while Fitz runs his route which is angled away from true north. Branch beats Fitzgerald to the spot by nine inches.
Math.
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You are speaking as though Madden is tightly coupled with the "math" you are applying to it. I see CBs with 87 speed "pressed" up on WR's with 95 speed, and the WR cant run past the CB simply because the CB is playing a cover 3 deep zone(because in Madden world because you are in a blue Deep zone that negates the fact you are slower, so we will allow you to back peddle just as fast as the WR is sprinting) Where is your math then ?
Math is thrown out the window in this game and is replaced with warping, sliding, and whatever else they must do to speed / slow the game down to make whatever feature they are trying to implement work.
Lets not talk about it like yall like to do every year pre-launch. Yall are the "game changers" Show us these vids of your math in action. Show me the vids of this new "gap assignments" working. Show some vids of these new match up zones working as advertised.
Every year yall post all this stuff about how great the game is gonna be then we all find out later that it ain't quite what yall hyped it up to be and the devs end up having to reintroduce the stuff next year as blah blah 2.0, updated and improved, or slap a new name on a 3 year old feature
# 40
SolidSquid @ 08/14/16 05:08 PM
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