FOF2004 Demo: Thoughts

RPI-Fan · 11-08-2003, 09:27 PM

-One "issue" with locking players is that I think it would be useful to be able to lock starters' playing time also. It appears that when you put a lesser player in as the starter, the playing time will automatically be lowered when you "recommend". While the locking player addition is fabulous, it isn't perhaps quite as efficient as it could be.

I don't mean to be complaining only - I like many, many more things than I don't like (the playing time locking is the only thing I've seen so far, actually). I just waited until the demo came out to throw out suggestions so I'd be basing them off of something concrete.

wbonnell · 11-08-2003, 09:28 PM

i'll move this here:

Looks like if you don't install it to the default path, it won't find the help file. Just a teeny, tiny bug.

Deattribution · 11-08-2003, 09:50 PM

Never saw it mentioned before, so thought it was worth mentioning now... but not only can we change the salary cap inflation as mentioned, can also change the injury ratio in the Global Options... even eliminate them all together.

MrBug708 · 11-08-2003, 09:57 PM

RPI, number of first roudners on team was in FOF4, not a new feature

I really REALLY wish we could do the draft

sabotai · 11-08-2003, 10:00 PM

I like when you search for a player (from the recommend button on the roster type screens), you can search for them and list them in order by a specific attribute.

Need a CB that has good zone defense? Order it by the best at that one attribute.

wbonnell · 11-08-2003, 10:05 PM

just pointing out oddities as I find them:

the sorting of the simulation window is non-deterministic. Every time I click on the email button, it (seems to) randomly sort:

Arizona
Seattle
San Francisco
St. Louis

->

Arizona
St. Louis
San Francisco
Seattle

->

Arizona
San Francisco
St. Louis
Seattle

->

Arizona
San Francisco
Seattle
St. Louis

FrogMan · 11-08-2003, 10:06 PM

sab, this little feature will certainly help me when I'm looking for something very specific, like a good kick or punt returner...

FM

FrogMan · 11-08-2003, 10:07 PM

wbonnell, it does that in FOF4 too, before the beginning of the regular season

Primal · 11-08-2003, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MrBug708
RPI, number of first roudners on team was in FOF4, not a new feature

What screen is this on?

Subby · 11-08-2003, 10:15 PM

Remind me again how the starter's playing time settings work in the depth charts...

FrogMan · 11-08-2003, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Primal
What screen is this on?

On the draft order screen.

FM

RPI-Fan · 11-08-2003, 10:18 PM

Higher = more playing time for the starter.

Also, another thing I noticed when tinkering with game plans (not sure if this is this way for technical reasons or just sort of an oversight...): When you change the personel information, and save that information, opening it within that same career opens the altered personel information. Opening it in another career indeed has the altered game plan settings (run percentages, etc.), but does NOT have the changed personel information. Seemed pretty interest, especially since the personel information is generic (Split End 1, Flanker 2, etc.)

Subby · 11-08-2003, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by RPI-Fan
I don't mean to be complaining only - I like many, many more things than I don't like (the playing time locking is the only thing I've seen so far, actually). I just waited until the demo came out to throw out suggestions so I'd be basing them off of something concrete.

Kyle - that is a fair point. Locking should effect the player and the time...

Just as an aside - why set your starters to anything less than 9?

korme · 11-08-2003, 10:24 PM

Many teams don't play their starters 100% of the game, and even for quarterback it makes sense. If your QB gets hit hard and is suffering a minor injury, depending on a few thing and say he is at 9 PT, he will stay in. However if he is say at 3, he might come out for the backup.

Also, many runningbacks share the load, this is probably the most noticable position that PT effects.

Primal · 11-08-2003, 10:24 PM

Wierd little bug (maybe).

After I click on "Formation Use - Extreme Passing" then click ok. I can no longer open any of the "Depth Chart & Game Plan" Windows. I also lose the ablility to sim games.

Is this just me or is anyone else getting this?

Daimyo · 11-08-2003, 10:25 PM

Fatigue... especially on the DL. In real life an example of a coach who uses far less than 9 would be Dungy.

RPI-Fan · 11-08-2003, 10:26 PM

Yep - I have it too.

cthomer5000 · 11-08-2003, 10:29 PM

perhaps a suggestion for patch/future version:

splitting the talent variables up. Have 1 drop-down for current/future and one for the actual skills. would make it easier to switch back and forth, and would make the individual skills easier to find in the list.

cthomer5000 · 11-08-2003, 10:33 PM

Was the ability to change the injury rate a listed feature? that should really shut up the whiners.

Coop · 11-08-2003, 10:40 PM

I don't like the idea of opening backfield then closing it to open offensive line,etc. It becomes tedious. I wish Jim would put in a previous and next button.

mckerney · 11-08-2003, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Coop
I don't like the idea of opening backfield then closing it to open offensive line,etc. It becomes tedious. I wish Jim would put in a previous and next button.

It was made this way becasue there was a tabs system in TCY very similar to what you're describing that lead to many a crash.

Tasan · 11-08-2003, 10:57 PM

Did anyone else notice that when negotiating a contract, the player's minimum salary automaticly is the lowest non-zero numer it will set to? Kinda handy. This wasn't in FOF4 was it? I didn't spend much time in it, so maybe I just missed this.

RPI-Fan · 11-08-2003, 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tasan
Did anyone else notice that when negotiating a contract, the player's minimum salary automaticly is the lowest non-zero numer it will set to? Kinda handy. This wasn't in FOF4 was it? I didn't spend much time in it, so maybe I just missed this.

I don't quite understand what you're saying; could you explain a bit more?

RPI-Fan · 11-08-2003, 11:08 PM

Got it now - that is indeed a nice little feature.

Tasan · 11-08-2003, 11:15 PM

Yeah I'm REAL tired right now, so I couldn't really get out what I wanted to say. Maybe this:

We negotiating contracts, zero out a salary for a year. Then bump it up once. Usually, in old FOF, you'd get increments of 10,000 starting right off. Now, it automatically jumps to the minimum salary for the player first, then jumps by 10,000 every increment after that. No more having to guess what the minimum salaries are anymore!

sianews · 11-08-2003, 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by RPI-Fan
-One "issue" with locking players is that I think it would be useful to be able to lock starters' playing time also.

Totally agree. If their playing time isn't locked as well then it defeats the purpose of locking a player in as starter.

For example, I locked by 3rd string RB is as starter, and my #1 guy in the 3rd slot. Scout finished out the depth chart giving my RB a "1" for playing time. Result: The player in the third slot gets 16 carries.

Maple Leafs · 11-08-2003, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tasan
We negotiating contracts, zero out a salary for a year. Then bump it up once. Usually, in old FOF, you'd get increments of 10,000 starting right off. Now, it automatically jumps to the minimum salary for the player first, then jumps by 10,000 every increment after that. No more having to guess what the minimum salaries are anymore!

That will be a great addition.

The game locks for me on Extreme Passing too, by the way. Actually, if you look in the bottom corner you'll see that you're "retired".

Tasan · 11-08-2003, 11:44 PM

Yeah, its actually locking me on any one of those that I click on, then click okay to. A tweak or two here and there seems to be needed.

mckerney · 11-08-2003, 11:49 PM

Any idea what 'Cap Out Offer' does?

RPI-Fan · 11-08-2003, 11:55 PM

Makes your offer more cap-friendly for the curent year, or even following year also, but is severely backloaded, witht the player getting more money in th elong-run.

QuikSand · 11-09-2003, 07:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mckerney
Any idea what 'Cap Out Offer' does?

For a player who is already on a contract with more than one year remaining, it restructures his deal. It takes his current salary down to the minimum for his years of experience, and applies the amount of that reduction as a new signing bonus, which is then (of course) spread out among the remaining years for cap purposes. Future years' base salaries remain unchanged. This becomes much more cap-friendly for the current season, increases the guaranteed money to the player, and pushes the cap hit out into future years.

This type of simple restructuring is becoming pretty common in the NFL.

cthomer5000 · 11-09-2003, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by wbonnell
just pointing out oddities as I find them:

the sorting of the simulation window is non-deterministic. Every time I click on the email button, it (seems to) randomly sort:

This was the case in FOF4 too. As far as I can tell it really only happens until your teams have records, then it sorts by that. Still, I would say it should be considered a bug.

QuikSand · 11-09-2003, 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by cthomer5000
This was the case in FOF4 too. As far as I can tell it really only happens until your teams have records, then it sorts by that. Still, I would say it should be considered a bug.

A bug? So, it's a substantive "error" that the game doesn't sort by, say, alpha order when there's no basis for a sort?

Jon · 11-09-2003, 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Primal
Wierd little bug (maybe).

After I click on "Formation Use - Extreme Passing" then click ok. I can no longer open any of the "Depth Chart & Game Plan" Windows. I also lose the ablility to sim games.

Is this just me or is anyone else getting this?

The same thing just happend to me.

Adamski47 · 11-09-2003, 08:32 AM

I just had a team get a holding call on the opening kickoff and I accepted the penalty. I was given the choice to decline, or place the ball at the 1 yard line.

The CPU returned the ball to the 20 yard line. Shouldn't this be the 10?

Bee · 11-09-2003, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Adamski47
I just had a team get a holding call on the opening kickoff and I accepted the penalty. I was given the choice to decline, or place the ball at the 1 yard line.

The CPU returned the ball to the 20 yard line. Shouldn't this be the 10?

The penalty is from the point of the hold, not the point they returned it to.

Edit: I assume the hold happened at the 2 yard line for the spot to be at the 1 yard line (half the distance). That's a little suspect though for a hold to happen at that point unless the returner was bringing it out from deep in the endzone (or he might have muffed it).

wbonnell · 11-09-2003, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by QuikSand
A bug? So, it's a substantive "error" that the game doesn't sort by, say, alpha order when there's no basis for a sort?

I wouldn't say it's a substantive defect, but it's still a defect. The sort order should always be determinisitic.

cthomer5000 · 11-09-2003, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by QuikSand
A bug? So, it's a substantive "error" that the game doesn't sort by, say, alpha order when there's no basis for a sort?

Then shouldn't it be a static list?

Adamski47 · 11-09-2003, 09:15 AM

Yeah, a holding call around the 2 yard line is a bit odd. I know for a fact that the returner "returned the ball 23 yards to the 20" so he wasn't too deep. Perhaps we could have Jim add a line of code that says "Opps! He muffed it!..."

ThomasG · 11-09-2003, 09:28 AM

Just a quick question regarding players.

Will it be possible to start the game with completely fictional players?

If not, can we somehow get to play with real player names (other than typing in all names ourselves)?

Eaglesfan27 · 11-09-2003, 09:33 AM

It is VERY likely that someone will release a roster file with real names around the time the game comes out.

cody8200 · 11-09-2003, 09:43 AM

Eagles, how can I save player name changes? When I change them does it save them to a file ? Thanks.

Eaglesfan27 · 11-09-2003, 09:58 AM

I'm not sure that you can save them with the demo as I haven't tried the demo yet. I'm hooked with my TCY career again (busy enjoying the game and creating draft files for FOF2004) and I know I will buy the full game when it comes out. However, I'm positive that someone will release a roster file which will have all of the real names very soon after the full game is out (likely the same day.)

3ric · 11-09-2003, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ThomasG
Just a quick question regarding players.

Will it be possible to start the game with completely fictional players?

If not, can we somehow get to play with real player names (other than typing in all names ourselves)?

A fictional universe will be created if you start a new game with an OPU "alternate player file", which can be created in Excel (or a text editor, if you know how to re-create the csv format).

TroyF · 11-09-2003, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by 3ric
A fictional universe will be created if you start a new game with an OPU "alternate player file", which can be created in Excel (or a text editor, if you know how to re-create the csv format).

You can also sim through 15 or 20 seasons, save the player file and start with that if memory serves.

TroyF

Noop · 11-09-2003, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Coop
I don't like the idea of opening backfield then closing it to open offensive line,etc. It becomes tedious. I wish Jim would put in a previous and next button.

Welcome my brother. You are Coop and I am Noop we're family!!!

noop

Primal · 11-09-2003, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Noop
Welcome my brother. You are Coop and I am Noop we're family!!!

Can I be Poop?

mckerney · 11-09-2003, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by wbonnell
I wouldn't say it's a substantive defect, but it's still a defect. The sort order should always be determinisitic.

Isn't this normal in FOF? The same thing was done in TCY.

Noop · 11-09-2003, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Primal
Can I be Poop?

Sure!! maybe Proop sounds better...

noop

Qwikshot · 11-09-2003, 01:51 PM

Posted this in the demo sticky, and I'll post here, cannot get the demo to download, was the bandwidth at the site affected?!?

11-08-2003, 10:06 PM	#7
FrogMan Hattrick Moderator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Pintendre, Qc, Canada	sab, this little feature will certainly help me when I'm looking for something very specific, like a good kick or punt returner... FM __________________ A Black Belt is a White Belt who refused to give up... follow my story: The real life story of a running frog...

11-08-2003, 10:07 PM	#8
FrogMan Hattrick Moderator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Pintendre, Qc, Canada	wbonnell, it does that in FOF4 too, before the beginning of the regular season __________________ A Black Belt is a White Belt who refused to give up... follow my story: The real life story of a running frog...

11-08-2003, 10:15 PM	#10
Subby lolzcat Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: sans pants	Remind me again how the starter's playing time settings work in the depth charts... __________________ Superman was flying around and saw Wonder Woman getting a tan in the nude on her balcony. Superman said I going to hit that real fast. So he flys down toward Wonder Woman to hit it and their is a loud scream. The Invincible Man scream what just hit me in the ass!!!!! I do shit, I take pictures, I write about it: chrisshue.com

11-08-2003, 10:18 PM	#12
RPI-Fan Pro Starter Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Troy, NY	Higher = more playing time for the starter. Also, another thing I noticed when tinkering with game plans (not sure if this is this way for technical reasons or just sort of an oversight...): When you change the personel information, and save that information, opening it within that same career opens the altered personel information. Opening it in another career indeed has the altered game plan settings (run percentages, etc.), but does NOT have the changed personel information. Seemed pretty interest, especially since the personel information is generic (Split End 1, Flanker 2, etc.) __________________ Quis custodiets ipsos custodes?

11-08-2003, 10:26 PM	#17
RPI-Fan Pro Starter Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Troy, NY	Yep - I have it too. __________________ Quis custodiets ipsos custodes?

11-08-2003, 09:28 PM	#2
wbonnell College Prospect Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Round Rock TX	i'll move this here: Looks like if you don't install it to the default path, it won't find the help file. Just a teeny, tiny bug.

11-08-2003, 09:50 PM	#3
Deattribution College Benchwarmer Join Date: Oct 2003	Never saw it mentioned before, so thought it was worth mentioning now... but not only can we change the salary cap inflation as mentioned, can also change the injury ratio in the Global Options... even eliminate them all together.

11-08-2003, 09:57 PM	#4
MrBug708 Head Coach Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Whittier	RPI, number of first roudners on team was in FOF4, not a new feature I really REALLY wish we could do the draft

11-08-2003, 10:00 PM	#5
sabotai General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: The Satellite of Love	I like when you search for a player (from the recommend button on the roster type screens), you can search for them and list them in order by a specific attribute. Need a CB that has good zone defense? Order it by the best at that one attribute.

11-08-2003, 10:05 PM	#6
wbonnell College Prospect Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Round Rock TX	just pointing out oddities as I find them: the sorting of the simulation window is non-deterministic. Every time I click on the email button, it (seems to) randomly sort: Arizona Seattle San Francisco St. Louis -> Arizona St. Louis San Francisco Seattle -> Arizona San Francisco St. Louis Seattle -> Arizona San Francisco Seattle St. Louis

11-08-2003, 10:24 PM	#14
korme Go Reds Join Date: May 2001 Location: Bloodbuzz Ohio	Many teams don't play their starters 100% of the game, and even for quarterback it makes sense. If your QB gets hit hard and is suffering a minor injury, depending on a few thing and say he is at 9 PT, he will stay in. However if he is say at 3, he might come out for the backup. Also, many runningbacks share the load, this is probably the most noticable position that PT effects.

11-08-2003, 10:24 PM	#15
Primal High School JV Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Huntington Beach, CA	Wierd little bug (maybe). After I click on "Formation Use - Extreme Passing" then click ok. I can no longer open any of the "Depth Chart & Game Plan" Windows. I also lose the ablility to sim games. Is this just me or is anyone else getting this?

11-08-2003, 10:25 PM	#16
Daimyo College Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Berkeley	Fatigue... especially on the DL. In real life an example of a coach who uses far less than 9 would be Dungy.

11-08-2003, 10:40 PM	#20
Coop High School JV Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: NJ	I don't like the idea of opening backfield then closing it to open offensive line,etc. It becomes tedious. I wish Jim would put in a previous and next button. __________________ eNFL-Carolina Panthers Xbox Live- Coop421

11-08-2003, 10:57 PM	#22
Tasan College Starter Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Houston, or there about	Did anyone else notice that when negotiating a contract, the player's minimum salary automaticly is the lowest non-zero numer it will set to? Kinda handy. This wasn't in FOF4 was it? I didn't spend much time in it, so maybe I just missed this. __________________ 2011 Golden Scribes winner for best Interactive Dynasty

11-08-2003, 11:08 PM	#24
RPI-Fan Pro Starter Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Troy, NY	Got it now - that is indeed a nice little feature. __________________ Quis custodiets ipsos custodes?

11-08-2003, 11:15 PM	#25
Tasan College Starter Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Houston, or there about	Yeah I'm REAL tired right now, so I couldn't really get out what I wanted to say. Maybe this: We negotiating contracts, zero out a salary for a year. Then bump it up once. Usually, in old FOF, you'd get increments of 10,000 starting right off. Now, it automatically jumps to the minimum salary for the player first, then jumps by 10,000 every increment after that. No more having to guess what the minimum salaries are anymore! __________________ 2011 Golden Scribes winner for best Interactive Dynasty

11-08-2003, 11:44 PM	#28
Tasan College Starter Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Houston, or there about	Yeah, its actually locking me on any one of those that I click on, then click okay to. A tweak or two here and there seems to be needed. __________________ 2011 Golden Scribes winner for best Interactive Dynasty Last edited by Tasan : 11-08-2003 at 11:45 PM.

11-08-2003, 11:49 PM	#29
mckerney Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000	Any idea what 'Cap Out Offer' does?

11-08-2003, 11:55 PM	#30
RPI-Fan Pro Starter Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Troy, NY	Makes your offer more cap-friendly for the curent year, or even following year also, but is severely backloaded, witht the player getting more money in th elong-run. __________________ Quis custodiets ipsos custodes?

11-09-2003, 08:32 AM	#35
Adamski47 High School JV Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Chicago, IL	I just had a team get a holding call on the opening kickoff and I accepted the penalty. I was given the choice to decline, or place the ball at the 1 yard line. The CPU returned the ball to the 20 yard line. Shouldn't this be the 10?

11-09-2003, 09:15 AM	#39
Adamski47 High School JV Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Chicago, IL	Yeah, a holding call around the 2 yard line is a bit odd. I know for a fact that the returner "returned the ball 23 yards to the 20" so he wasn't too deep. Perhaps we could have Jim add a line of code that says "Opps! He muffed it!..."

11-09-2003, 09:28 AM	#40
ThomasG n00b Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Berlin, Germany	Just a quick question regarding players. Will it be possible to start the game with completely fictional players? If not, can we somehow get to play with real player names (other than typing in all names ourselves)?

11-09-2003, 09:33 AM	#41
Eaglesfan27 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: New Jersey	It is VERY likely that someone will release a roster file with real names around the time the game comes out. __________________ Retired GM of the eNFL 2007 Super Bowl Champion Philadelphia Eagles (19-0 record.) GM of the WOOF 2006 Doggie Bowl Champion Atlantic City Gamblers. GM of the IHOF 2019 and 2022 IHOF Bowl Champion Asheville Axemen.

11-09-2003, 09:43 AM	#42
cody8200 High School Varsity Join Date: Nov 2000	Eagles, how can I save player name changes? When I change them does it save them to a file ? Thanks.

11-09-2003, 09:58 AM	#43
Eaglesfan27 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: New Jersey	I'm not sure that you can save them with the demo as I haven't tried the demo yet. I'm hooked with my TCY career again (busy enjoying the game and creating draft files for FOF2004) and I know I will buy the full game when it comes out. However, I'm positive that someone will release a roster file which will have all of the real names very soon after the full game is out (likely the same day.) __________________ Retired GM of the eNFL 2007 Super Bowl Champion Philadelphia Eagles (19-0 record.) GM of the WOOF 2006 Doggie Bowl Champion Atlantic City Gamblers. GM of the IHOF 2019 and 2022 IHOF Bowl Champion Asheville Axemen.

11-09-2003, 01:51 PM	#50
Qwikshot Pro Starter Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: ...down the gravity well	Posted this in the demo sticky, and I'll post here, cannot get the demo to download, was the bandwidth at the site affected?!? __________________ "General Woundwort's body was never found. It could be that he still lives his fierce life somewhere else, but from that day on, mother rabbits would tell their kittens that if they did not do as they were told, the General would get them. Such was Woundwort's monument, and perhaps it would not have displeased him." Watership Down, Richard Adams

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