FOF2K4: Sharin' A Little 4-1-1 For The Preseason

Ben E Lou · 08-09-2006, 05:18 AM

This is pretty logical, but I'd never thought of it before late last preseason.

ASSUMPTION: Playing-time based player development appears to be based on number of plays on the field, not number of games.

Based on the assumption above, the logic flows as follows:

1. To maximize player development, one would want to maximize number of plays on the field. Obviously, setting depth charts and playing times is one way to do this. However, it hit me during last preseason that another way to increase number of plays on the field is to, well, increase the number of plays.

2. The best way to increase the number of plays is to stop the clock a maximum number of times.

3. To stop the clock a maximum number of times, turnovers and incompletions should be maximized.

4. To maximize the number of turnovers and incompletions, throw as deep as possible on every single play.

I've tested this in SP. The number of plays increases by around 10-15% when one team throws deep on every single down. Over the course of four preseason games (and five test runs), my test team consistently averaged more points of growth in current value than when I did five test runs with default game plans.

What's more noticeable is that the effect is increased in multiplayer, in all likelihood due to less switching to run-heavy late in wins. I was just looking at the boxscore of Tucker's last preseason game of 2011. 157 total plays were run in that one, because we played pass-oriented Chesapeake.

http://www.fof-ihof.com/games/boxscore.php?gameid=2373

By comparison, over the course of the 2011 regular season, Tucker averaged 125.4 plays per game. The high? That ugly game against Chesapeake where both of our passing games stunk but we still threw a lot. We combined for 140 plays in that one.

http://www.fof-ihof.com/games/boxscore.php?gameid=2579

As I said, when ONE team does this, the total plays increase by 10-15%. That number was based on AI teams running their stock gameplans. As you can see by the box score when both of us threw a bunch in the preseason, the number of plays increased by more like 25%. Note that Quik ran a decent bit in that one. Taking this to its logical conclusion, testing two allpass multiplayer teams versus one another we get the following:

Code:

   Box Score: Maassluis at Tucker
   Tucker, GA.
   
   Exhibition Week 2, 2004
   
   Attendance: 66,200 (75,300).
   
   
   Weather: 81 degrees, fair.
   
   1Q: 13:18 MAA - Bob Manns 23 pass from Adrian Aschenbrenner.
   1Q: 13:18 MAA - Lester LaChapelle extra point.
   1Q: 05:49 MAA - Lester LaChapelle 48 field goal.
   1Q: 00:33 MAA - Lester LaChapelle 45 field goal.
   2Q: 03:46 MAA - Bob Manns 9 pass from Norbert Ferraro.
   2Q: 03:46 MAA - Lester LaChapelle extra point.
   2Q: 00:20 MAA - Marvin Fears 60 punt return.
   2Q: 00:20 MAA - Lester LaChapelle extra point.
   3Q: 11:52 MAA - Bob Manns 1 pass from Norbert Ferraro.
   3Q: 11:52 MAA - Lester LaChapelle extra point.
   4Q: 10:35 MAA - Lester LaChapelle 25 field goal.
   4Q: 03:53 TUC - Andy Schalk 24 field goal.
   
   Game MVP: MAA 44 Buddy Choisser
   
   Maassluis    13    14    7    3    -    37
   Tucker    0    0    0    3    -    3
   
   Team Statistics        MAA        TUC
   
   First Downs        14        14
   
   Total Rushes        7        11
   Rushing Yards        16        27
   Yards Per Carry        2.2        2.4
   Pass Attempts        75        80
   Completions        12        7
   Passing Yards        267        178
   Yards Per Attempt        3.5        2.2
   Sacked        8        5
   Yards Lost        57        40
   Interceptions        4        6
   Fumbles/Lost        1/0        1/0
   
   Total Plays        90        96
   Total Yards        226        165
   Yards Per Play        2.5        1.7
   
   3rd Down Plays        6/25        5/26
   Avg. YTG on 3rd        10.4        10.7
   4th Down Plays        0/0        0/1
   
   Penalties        14        6
   Penalty Yards        106        101
   
   Avg. Drive Start        OWN 36        OWN 27
   Time Of Possession        30:26        29:34
   
   Maassluis Individual Statistics
   
   Rushing        Att    Yards    Avg    Long    TD
   26 Wannamaker        3    3    1.0    2    0
   15 Klingbiel        2    7    3.5    4    0
   13 Aschenbrenner        1    4    4.0    4    0
   27 Surry        1    2    2.0    2    0
   
   Passing        Att    Comp    Yards    Yd/Att    Long    TD    Int    Sckd
   13 Aschenbrenner        34    6    178    5.2    59    1    0    3
   15 Klingbiel        24    1    14    0.5    14    0    2    3
   10 Ferraro        17    5    75    4.4    46    2    2    2
   
   Receiving        Catch    Yards    Avg    YAC    Long    TD
   82 Peterson        6    151    25.1    19    59    0
   88 Manns        4    47    11.7    0    23    3
   26 Wannamaker        2    69    34.5    1    55    0
   
   Punt Returns        Att    Yards    Avg    TD
   85 Fears        6    65    10.8    1
   38 Sulfsted        2    -2    -1.0    0
   
   Kick Returns        Att    Yards    Avg    TD
   
   Punting        Punts    Yards    Avg    Long    In20
   1 Donaldson        13    555    42.6    58    3
   
   Kicking        FG    FGA    Long    PAT    Att
   9 LaChapelle        3    4    48    4    4
   
   Defense        Tackle    Assist    Sack    Int    IntYds    IntTD
   38 Sulfsted        4    0    0.0    0    0    0
   45 Corwin        3    2    0.0    2    49    0
   44 Choisser        3    1    0.0    2    20    0
   42 Callis        3    1    0.0    1    45    0
   26 Wannamaker        3    0    0.0    0    0    0
   78 Stevison        2    0    1.0    0    0    0
   43 Barkley        2    0    0.0    1    0    0
   88 Manns        2    0    0.0    0    0    0
   72 Brady        1    1    1.0    0    0    0
   74 Bulluck        1    1    1.0    0    0    0
   21 Bradley        1    0    1.0    0    0    0
   73 Kolberg        1    0    0.5    0    0    0
   55 Devine        1    0    0.0    0    0    0
   99 Jammer        1    0    0.0    0    0    0
   47 Hansen        1    0    0.0    0    0    0
   86 Hanson        1    0    0.0    0    0    0
   82 Peterson        1    0    0.0    0    0    0
   70 Shula        1    0    0.0    0    0    0
   27 Surry        1    0    0.0    0    0    0
   49 Starks        1    0    0.0    0    0    0
   92 Douglas        1    0    0.0    0    0    0
   54 Wayne        1    0    0.0    0    0    0
   97 McGregor        0    1    0.5    0    0    0
   95 Callahan        0    1    0.0    0    0    0
   
   Miscellaneous        Fumb    FForc    Recov    MiscTD    KeyRBlk    SckAlwd
   28 Peterson        0    0    0    0    0    1
   64 Byers        0    0    0    0    0    3
   50 Ramsey        0    0    0    0    0    1
   70 Shula        0    1    0    0    0    1
   63 Owens        0    0    0    0    0    1
   55 Devine        0    0    0    0    0    1
   85 Fears        1    0    0    0    0    0
   90 Machado        0    0    1    0    0    0
   
   Tucker Individual Statistics
   
   Rushing        Att    Yards    Avg    Long    TD
   4 Southrey        4    17    4.2    8    0
   47 Rodgers        2    -2    -1.0    -1    0
   32 Brentley        2    -2    -1.0    -1    0
   17 Hurtado        1    3    3.0    3    0
   35 Stanberry        1    4    4.0    4    0
   21 Tribble        1    7    7.0    7    0
   
   Passing        Att    Comp    Yards    Yd/Att    Long    TD    Int    Sckd
   4 Southrey        46    4    102    2.2    60    0    3    2
   17 Hurtado        21    1    15    0.7    15    0    2    3
   6 Carman        13    2    61    4.6    47    0    1    0
   
   Receiving        Catch    Yards    Avg    YAC    Long    TD
   83 McGregor        3    120    40.0    6    60    0
   81 Milts        2    29    14.5    1    15    0
   82 Cochrane        1    15    15.0    0    15    0
   89 Robinson        1    14    14.0    0    14    0
   
   Punt Returns        Att    Yards    Avg    TD
   85 Zimmerman        3    28    9.3    0
   82 Cochrane        2    0    0.0    0
   
   Kick Returns        Att    Yards    Avg    TD
   41 Withrow        2    33    16.5    0
   82 Cochrane        1    19    19.0    0
   86 Davidson        1    16    16.0    0
   
   Punting        Punts    Yards    Avg    Long    In20
   8 Rodriguez        17    724    42.5    52    1
   
   Kicking        FG    FGA    Long    PAT    Att
   14 Schalk        1    1    24    0    0
   
   Defense        Tackle    Assist    Sack    Int    IntYds    IntTD
   45 Lyon        4    2    0.0    1    0    0
   79 Regalado        3    0    2.0    0    0    0
   41 Withrow        3    2    0.0    2    0    0
   22 Raag        3    0    0.0    0    0    0
   96 Bailey        2    0    2.0    0    0    0
   73 Traylor        2    0    2.0    0    0    0
   91 Davis        2    0    0.5    0    0    0
   17 Hurtado        2    0    0.0    0    0    0
   60 Francis        2    0    0.0    0    0    0
   42 Krause        2    0    0.0    0    0    0
   33 Kus        2    0    0.0    0    0    0
   97 Lasica        1    0    1.0    0    0    0
   38 Melnik        1    1    0.0    0    0    0
   27 Drake        1    0    0.0    1    0    0
   83 McGregor        1    0    0.0    0    0    0
   29 Miller        1    0    0.0    0    0    0
   89 Robinson        1    0    0.0    0    0    0
   65 Dawson        1    0    0.0    0    0    0
   67 Endsley        1    0    0.0    0    0    0
   6 Carman        1    0    0.0    0    0    0
   81 Milts        1    0    0.0    0    0    0
   72 Kemp        0    1    0.5    0    0    0
   95 Escamilla        0    1    0.0    0    0    0
   90 Hampton        0    1    0.0    0    0    0
   
   Miscellaneous        Fumb    FForc    Recov    MiscTD    KeyRBlk    SckAlwd
   65 Dawson        0    0    0    0    0    1
   52 Cooper        0    0    0    0    0    1
   60 Francis        0    0    0    0    0    3
   29 Miller        0    1    0    0    0    0
   82 Cochrane        1    0    0    0    0    0
   79 Regalado        0    0    1    0    0    0
   
   Maassluis Drive Chart
       Quar    Began    Poss    From        Plays    Yards    Result
       1    15:00    1:42    OWN 20        3    80    Touchdown
       1    12:10    1:24    OWN 41        6    15    Punt
       1    8:48    2:59    OWN 39        9    30    Field Goal
       1    4:08    0:33    OWN 22        3    0    Punt
       1    2:28    1:55    OWN 19        5    53    Field Goal
       2    11:54    1:19    OPP 43        6    7    Punt
       2    10:01    0:39    OWN 45        3    0    Punt
       2    8:45    1:34    OWN 20        3    -13    Punt
       2    5:12    0:45    OWN 20        3    0    Punt
       2    3:53    0:07    OPP 9        1    9    Touchdown
       2    2:33    1:37    OWN 33        4    14    Interception
       3    14:48    0:36    OWN 42        3    0    Punt
       3    13:08    1:16    OWN 48        4    52    Touchdown
       3    10:14    1:08    OWN 18        6    15    Punt
       3    7:14    1:00    OPP 48        2    0    Interception
       3    5:36    0:36    OPP 38        3    -5    Punt
       3    2:36    0:34    OWN 34        3    0    Interception
       3    0:20    0:28    OWN 27        3    0    Interception
       4    13:46    1:12    OWN 20        3    49    Missed FG
       4    11:03    0:28    OPP 8        3    0    Field Goal
       4    9:17    1:08    OWN 25        3    -16    Punt
       4    8:00    1:22    OWN 20        3    -10    Punt
       4    5:43    0:38    OWN 20        3    0    Punt
       4    3:53    2:09    OWN 20        6    18    Punt
       4    0:18    0:18    OWN 25        1    -6    Game
   
   Tucker Drive Chart
       Quar    Began    Poss    From        Plays    Yards    Result
       1    13:18    1:08    OWN 14        3    0    Punt
       1    10:46    1:58    OWN 20        4    15    Interception
       1    5:49    1:41    OWN 30        3    7    Punt
       1    3:35    1:07    OWN 36        3    4    Punt
       1    0:33    3:39    OWN 7        10    36    Downs
       2    10:35    0:34    OWN 3        3    0    Punt
       2    9:22    0:37    OWN 37        3    0    Punt
       2    7:11    1:59    OPP 46        8    4    Punt
       2    4:27    0:34    OWN 40        3    0    Interception
       2    3:46    1:13    OWN 14        3    0    Punt
       2    0:56    0:36    OWN 9        3    0    Punt
       2    0:20    0:20    OWN 10        1    60    Half
       3    15:00    0:12    OWN 20        1    0    Interception
       3    14:12    1:04    OWN 20        3    0    Punt
       3    11:52    1:38    OWN 18        3    8    Punt
       3    9:06    1:52    OWN 27        4    -2    Punt
       3    6:14    0:38    OWN 4        3    0    Punt
       3    5:00    2:24    OWN 20        8    19    Punt
       3    2:02    1:42    OPP 48        3    -23    Punt
       4    14:52    1:06    OPP 41        3    3    Punt
       4    12:34    1:31    OWN 38        3    -2    Interception
       4    10:35    1:18    OWN 28        3    0    Punt
       4    8:09    0:09    OWN 48        1    0    Interception
       4    6:38    0:55    50        3    10    Interception
       4    5:05    1:12    OWN 41        6    52    Field Goal
       4    1:44    1:26    OWN 14        6    14    Punt
   
   Maassluis Red Zone Profile
           Visits    TDs    FGs
           2    1    1
   
   Tucker Red Zone Profile
           Visits    TDs    FGs
           1    0    1
   
   Maassluis Rushing Breakdown
   
   Direction        Rush    Yards    Ave
   Left        1    2    2.0
   Middle        6    14    2.3
   Right        0    0    0.0
   None        0    0    0.0
   
   Run Blocking        KeyBlks    BlkOpps    RunPlays
   64 Byers        0    2    4
   55 Devine        0    1    7
   63 Owens        0    1    6
   26 Wannamaker        0    0    7
   82 Peterson        0    0    7
   88 Manns        0    0    7
   70 Shula        0    0    6
   61 Mundy        0    0    6
   87 Erickson        0    0    4
   28 Peterson        0    0    4
   50 Ramsey        0    0    3
   71 Whitted        0    0    2
   66 Herttna        0    0    1
   
   Maassluis Passing Breakdown
   
   Distance        Pass    Comp    Yards    Ave
   Screen        0    0    0    0.0
   Short (0-8 Yds)        3    2    6    2.0
   Medium (9-18 Yds)        23    6    78    3.3
   Long (19+ Yds)        49    4    183    3.7
   
   Passing        Attempt    Comp    BdThrw    Dropd    Defnsd    Blockd    Hurried    Intrcpt
   13 Aschenbrenner        34    6    3    8    8    1    7    0
   15 Klingbiel        24    1    3    2    9    1    5    2
   10 Ferraro        17    5    5    2    0    1    2    2
   
   Receiving        Target    Caught    Dropd    Yards    PassPlay
   82 Peterson        31    6    5    151    82
   88 Manns        23    4    4    47    82
   85 Fears        12    0    2    0    37
   26 Wannamaker        9    2    1    69    80
   
   Pass Block        SckAlwd        PassPlay
   70 Shula        1        82
   26 Wannamaker        0        80
   55 Devine        1        78
   28 Peterson        1        67
   63 Owens        1        62
   50 Ramsey        1        56
   61 Mundy        0        56
   64 Byers        3        50
   71 Whitted        0        30
   66 Herttna        0        1
   
   Pass Rush        Sacks    PsBlks    Hurries    PassPlay
   78 Stevison        1.0    1    1    39
   72 Brady        1.0    0    3    73
   21 Bradley        1.0    0    2    43
   74 Bulluck        1.0    0    0    47
   73 Kolberg        0.5    1    2    65
   97 McGregor        0.5    0    4    46
   38 Sulfsted        0.0    0    1    68
   44 Choisser        0.0    0    0    67
   43 Barkley        0.0    0    0    62
   42 Callis        0.0    0    0    62
   95 Callahan        0.0    0    1    50
   45 Corwin        0.0    0    0    58
   46 Wilson        0.0    0    0    49
   90 Machado        0.0    0    0    47
   49 Starks        0.0    0    0    46
   98 Langlois        0.0    0    0    32
   91 Halvorson        0.0    0    0    21
   92 Douglas        0.0    0    0    20
   54 Wayne        0.0    0    0    18
   99 Jammer        0.0    0    0    16
   59 Reilly        0.0    0    0    6
   
   Pass Defense        Caught    Defnsd    Intrcpt    PassPlay
   38 Sulfsted        3    1    0    68
   42 Callis        1    4    1    62
   43 Barkley        1    2    1    62
   45 Corwin        1    1    2    58
   49 Starks        1    1    0    46
   44 Choisser        0    9    2    67
   46 Wilson        0    3    0    49
   21 Bradley        0    2    0    43
   72 Brady        0    1    0    73
   91 Halvorson        0    1    0    21
   73 Kolberg        0    0    0    65
   95 Callahan        0    0    0    50
   90 Machado        0    0    0    47
   74 Bulluck        0    0    0    47
   97 McGregor        0    0    0    46
   78 Stevison        0    0    0    39
   98 Langlois        0    0    0    32
   92 Douglas        0    0    0    20
   54 Wayne        0    0    0    18
   99 Jammer        0    0    0    16
   59 Reilly        0    0    0    6
   
   Defense        Tackles    Assists    RunPlay    PassPlay
   38 Sulfsted        4    0    11    68
   45 Corwin        3    2    7    58
   44 Choisser        3    1    9    67
   42 Callis        3    1    8    62
   43 Barkley        2    0    6    62
   78 Stevison        2    0    3    39
   72 Brady        1    1    7    73
   74 Bulluck        1    1    7    47
   73 Kolberg        1    0    8    65
   49 Starks        1    0    7    46
   21 Bradley        1    0    6    43
   92 Douglas        1    0    4    20
   99 Jammer        1    0    3    16
   54 Wayne        1    0    1    18
   95 Callahan        0    1    7    50
   97 McGregor        0    1    8    46
   46 Wilson        0    0    7    49
   90 Machado        0    0    8    47
   98 Langlois        0    0    2    32
   91 Halvorson        0    0    2    21
   59 Reilly        0    0    0    6
   
   Tucker Rushing Breakdown
   
   Direction        Rush    Yards    Ave
   Left        1    -1    -1.0
   Middle        8    17    2.1
   Right        2    11    5.5
   None        0    0    0.0
   
   Run Blocking        KeyBlks    BlkOpps    RunPlays
   81 Milts        0    1    11
   35 Stanberry        0    1    9
   52 Cooper        0    1    9
   76 Vosicky        0    1    8
   42 Krause        0    1    4
   68 Ozols        0    1    4
   83 McGregor        0    0    11
   75 Bridges        0    0    10
   60 Francis        0    0    9
   89 Robinson        0    0    9
   65 Dawson        0    0    7
   67 Endsley        0    0    6
   54 Lofton        0    0    2
   
   Tucker Passing Breakdown
   
   Distance        Pass    Comp    Yards    Ave
   Screen        0    0    0    0.0
   Short (0-8 Yds)        1    0    0    0.0
   Medium (9-18 Yds)        21    5    71    3.3
   Long (19+ Yds)        58    2    107    1.8
   
   Passing        Attempt    Comp    BdThrw    Dropd    Defnsd    Blockd    Hurried    Intrcpt
   4 Southrey        46    4    11    3    15    2    7    3
   17 Hurtado        21    1    1    6    6    0    5    2
   6 Carman        13    2    2    2    4    0    2    1
   
   Receiving        Target    Caught    Dropd    Yards    PassPlay
   83 McGregor        32    3    5    120    85
   81 Milts        25    2    3    29    85
   82 Cochrane        10    1    1    15    17
   89 Robinson        9    1    2    14    68
   32 Brentley        2    0    0    0    19
   35 Stanberry        1    0    0    0    76
   21 Tribble        1    0    0    0    34
   
   Pass Block        SckAlwd        PassPlay
   60 Francis        3        78
   75 Bridges        0        78
   35 Stanberry        0        76
   52 Cooper        1        70
   65 Dawson        1        64
   76 Vosicky        0        56
   42 Krause        0        39
   68 Ozols        0        38
   67 Endsley        0        27
   54 Lofton        0        14
   
   Pass Rush        Sacks    PsBlks    Hurries    PassPlay
   79 Regalado        2.0    2    1    70
   73 Traylor        2.0    0    2    39
   96 Bailey        2.0    0    0    39
   97 Lasica        1.0    1    3    39
   72 Kemp        0.5    0    5    72
   91 Davis        0.5    0    1    63
   45 Lyon        0.0    0    1    74
   27 Drake        0.0    0    0    74
   22 Raag        0.0    0    0    60
   41 Withrow        0.0    0    0    59
   59 Bradford        0.0    0    1    48
   38 Melnik        0.0    0    0    54
   33 Kus        0.0    0    0    47
   90 Hampton        0.0    0    0    38
   29 Miller        0.0    0    0    34
   95 Escamilla        0.0    0    0    33
   30 Johannsen        0.0    0    0    25
   53 Delgado        0.0    0    0    21
   51 Fogg        0.0    0    0    11
   92 Ridley        0.0    0    0    10
   94 Sunderland        0.0    0    0    3
   
   Pass Defense        Caught    Defnsd    Intrcpt    PassPlay
   45 Lyon        5    2    1    74
   33 Kus        2    3    0    47
   22 Raag        1    4    0    60
   38 Melnik        1    4    0    54
   41 Withrow        1    1    2    59
   79 Regalado        1    0    0    70
   51 Fogg        1    0    0    11
   27 Drake        0    1    1    74
   30 Johannsen        0    1    0    25
   53 Delgado        0    1    0    21
   72 Kemp        0    0    0    72
   91 Davis        0    0    0    63
   59 Bradford        0    0    0    48
   96 Bailey        0    0    0    39
   73 Traylor        0    0    0    39
   97 Lasica        0    0    0    39
   90 Hampton        0    0    0    38
   29 Miller        0    0    0    34
   95 Escamilla        0    0    0    33
   92 Ridley        0    0    0    10
   94 Sunderland        0    0    0    3
   
   Defense        Tackles    Assists    RunPlay    PassPlay
   45 Lyon        4    2    6    74
   41 Withrow        3    2    6    59
   79 Regalado        3    0    5    70
   22 Raag        3    0    7    60
   91 Davis        2    0    6    63
   33 Kus        2    0    2    47
   73 Traylor        2    0    4    39
   96 Bailey        2    0    3    39
   38 Melnik        1    1    3    54
   27 Drake        1    0    6    74
   97 Lasica        1    0    2    39
   29 Miller        1    0    4    34
   72 Kemp        0    1    7    72
   90 Hampton        0    1    3    38
   95 Escamilla        0    1    3    33
   59 Bradford        0    0    4    48
   30 Johannsen        0    0    2    25
   53 Delgado        0    0    1    21
   51 Fogg        0    0    1    11
   92 Ridley        0    0    1    10
   94 Sunderland        0    0    1    3

So, by passing a ton on both sides, expecting the pass, etc., 186 total plays were run in one game, or nearly 50% more than the number that Tucker ran during the 2011 regular season--a significant boost to preseason player development, roughly the equivalent of adding two extra preseason games, actually.

yabanci · 08-09-2006, 06:22 AM

seems like a desperate way to pick up an extra point or two... /shrug

gottimd · 08-09-2006, 06:35 AM

So what about if you want those extra points of development for a RB?

Ben E Lou · 08-09-2006, 06:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gottimd

So what about if you want those extra points of development for a RB?

You're making the assumption that development is based on carries. I haven't 100% verified it yet through isolated testing, but it appears to be more based on plays for which he's on the field. One thing is certain: more overall team development happens when more plays are run.

Ben E Lou · 08-09-2006, 06:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yabanci

seems like a desperate way to pick up an extra point or two... /shrug

What else is the preseason good for?

Grammaticus · 08-09-2006, 08:36 AM

It still seems like taking advantage of the AI.

Ben E Lou · 08-09-2006, 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grammaticus

It still seems like taking advantage of the AI.

Not in a multiplayer league.

flere-imsaho · 08-09-2006, 08:41 AM

You might as well link up the CFL thread, SkyDog.

Ben E Lou · 08-09-2006, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

You might as well link up the CFL thread, SkyDog.

That has nothing to do with my intentions for posting this.

Subby · 08-09-2006, 08:44 AM

Nice work!

flere-imsaho · 08-09-2006, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkyDog

That has nothing to do with my intentions for posting this.

That's not what I'm suggesting. I think there may be some valid concerns about doing this in a MP league, and some of those concerns have been voiced in the CFL. Perhaps FOFC as a whole may want to discuss/debunk those concerns.

Grammaticus · 08-09-2006, 08:48 AM

:lipsrsealed:

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkyDog

Not in a multiplayer league.

True and it is probably better to let it happen in multi player rather than make some cumbersome rule regarding gameplans.

Ben E Lou · 08-09-2006, 08:48 AM

Flare, but how do you legislate against it? Is 10% running too little? 20%? Force people to use the AI-suggested gameplans in the preseasons???

VPI97 · 08-09-2006, 08:52 AM

Hopefully, this relevation will lead to a revamp of the pre-season in FOF.

flere-imsaho · 08-09-2006, 08:55 AM

As was pointed out in the CFL, we'd rather not legislate against it. What we would prefer is for each GM is to practice some common courtesy and common sense towards their other GMs.

Your preseason gameplans have the unintended consequence of getting parts of your opponents' teams on the field a lot more. Therefore, it's very likely some of those GM's starters will see the field a lot more than they intended, and thus be more susceptible to an injury happening. That's an unintended consequence.

Since the #1 goal of preseason is to not have your most important players get injured, it seems to me that the common courtesy and common sense thing to do would be to give your preseason opponents a heads-up, and, even better, see if the two of you can work out gameplans for that game that will benefit the both of you.

I don't want to legislate against it, but I'm not quite comfortable with you "springing" it on a MP league like this. And I think Raven Hawk has a right to be upset, given that your wildly-skewed preseason gameplan put two of his key offensive linemen at considerably more risk of injury than he had planned.

Subby · 08-09-2006, 08:57 AM

Turn off injuries in pre-season...

VPI97 · 08-09-2006, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Subby

Turn off injuries in pre-season...

Yep...if the primary goal of MP pre-season has turned into a battle to not get starters injured, it makes no sense to keep injuries on for those games. People want to argue the realism factor, but is benching & inactivating starters right and left any more realistic than having no injuries? Neither are realistic, but somehow the former is accepted while the latter is not.

Ben E Lou · 08-09-2006, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VPI97

Hopefully, this relevation will lead to a revamp of the pre-season in FOF.

Well, I certainly didn't post this just to be nice.

Celeval · 08-09-2006, 09:12 AM

CFL thread?

cuervo72 · 08-09-2006, 09:14 AM

Well, I don't think preseason is going to be all that realistic anyway. Injuries or not, there's still no real reason to play anybody who is completely filled out, only guys who you're trying to develop. If he's already 77/77, I'm still sitting Jackie Percy, as there's no real growth potential (apparent, anyway).

Subby · 08-09-2006, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celeval

CFL thread?

I am guessing this one.

Ben E Lou · 08-09-2006, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

I don't want to legislate against it, but I'm not quite comfortable with you "springing" it on a MP league like this.

Maybe I'm the first person in CFL to go all-pass or all-run in a preseason game, but I'm certainly not the first in multiplayer to do it. I don't think it was "sprung" on anyone.

Quote:

And I think Raven Hawk has a right to be upset, given that your wildly-skewed preseason gameplan put two of his key offensive linemen at considerably more risk of injury than he had planned.

With the ability to keep over 2/3 of your starters from playing in the preseason, I'd say it is his own fault if he left TWO key offensive linemen starting and they got hurt.

jbmagic · 08-09-2006, 10:04 AM

Won't more plays with bad stats performance decrease a player development too right?

More plays can also lead to more injuries.

Solecismic · 08-09-2006, 10:09 AM

Difficult problem here. The easy answer is that NFL teams are courteous to each other and to the fans. The league has a vested interest in teams at least pretending to be competitive during the pre-season.

So, if a coach did what Ben did, it's likely the league office would take action to prevent it from happening again.

Young players would develop more if games were extended in this manner, but fans would become irate if games were treated as an extended practice session.

The pre-season is an extended practice session, however. That's the pretense we're asked to go along with when we buy our NFL season tickets. The NFL just won't admit it, while baseball teams openly admit it and don't require their fans to travel to Florida and purchase tickets to those games.

As far as FOF is concerned, one change that's on the list (usual evasive verbiage about which game is next, and when) is that players will need to get in a certain amount of playing time to remove the "rust" each season. The second change is that my research suggests young players aren't quite developing fast enough in FOF. So that will change a little.

I'm not going into the details of how all this works in FOF, but given the injury risks and the peer pressure, I would suspect that MP leagues should act as the NFL would, and adopt an "I don't like what I see, please stop it" policy for this type of behavior. Because it would be fairly difficult, and include extremely little reward for the gamer, to create an economic disincentive and/or a nagging commissioner's role in the game.

jbmagic · 08-09-2006, 10:31 AM

One way is to have the FOF gameplans % for runs and pass have a minimum and maximum % you can set it too.

This way we won't have these extreme gameplans being made.

Subby · 08-09-2006, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbmagic

One way is to have the FOF gameplans % for runs and pass have a minimum and maximum % you can set it too.

This way we won't have these extreme gameplans being made.

I think each league should have a gameplan czar that goes in and inspects the gameplan settings of each and every team before each game. Not only would that make the game more fun for everyone, it would close the gap between the cheaters and those folks whoare JUST TRYING TO KEEP IT REAZZY!!!

QuikSand · 08-09-2006, 10:53 AM

I just can't imagine any MP league thinking about trying to ban this practice having such a proposal pass the common sense "juice worth the squeeze" test. The exhibition games in FOF are demonstrably pointless in most respects -- who on earth would a league invest meaningful resources into setting rules on how "realistically" they are being played?

Nice thread, SkyDog, good idea, and I see no problem with it.

cthomer5000 · 08-09-2006, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QuikSand

I just can't imagine any MP league thinking about trying to ban this practice having such a proposal pass the common sense "juice worth the squeeze" test. The exhibition games in FOF are demonstrably pointless in most respects -- who on earth would a league invest meaningful resources into setting rules on how "realistically" they are being played?

Nice thread, SkyDog, good idea, and I see no problem with it.

Agreed on all counts.

jbmagic · 08-09-2006, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbmagic

One way is to have the FOF gameplans % for runs and pass have a minimum and maximum % you can set it too.

This way we won't have these extreme gameplans being made.

Hopefully Jim will add this on the next version of FOF.

Ben E Lou · 08-09-2006, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solecismic

As far as FOF is concerned, one change that's on the list (usual evasive verbiage about which game is next, and when) is that players will need to get in a certain amount of playing time to remove the "rust" each season.

That's great news! My hope would be that this will vary from player to player in accordance with overall experience, experience on the current team, and other factors, to the point that none of us can ever come up with a formula to find out EXACTLY how much playing time a player of X years experience and Y years on the team needs to remove the "rust."

Ben E Lou · 08-09-2006, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbmagic

Hopefully Jim will add this on the next version of FOF.

Hopefully he'll add Subby's gameplan czar idea as required for all multiplayer leagues, too.

Celeval · 08-09-2006, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbmagic

One way is to have the FOF gameplans % for runs and pass have a minimum and maximum % you can set it too.

This way we won't have these extreme gameplans being made.

This I don't like. There are plenty of situations where extreme gameplans are warranted.

Solecismic · 08-09-2006, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QuikSand

I just can't imagine any MP league thinking about trying to ban this practice having such a proposal pass the common sense "juice worth the squeeze" test. The exhibition games in FOF are demonstrably pointless in most respects -- who on earth would a league invest meaningful resources into setting rules on how "realistically" they are being played?

Nice thread, SkyDog, good idea, and I see no problem with it.

Pre-season games are similarly demonstrably pointless in the NFL, as well. What Ben has done is illustrate a scenario that could just as easily apply to the NFL, but doesn't, exactly because teams adhere to an informal "realism" policy..

It's a very good argument against turning off the injury sliders for the pre-season, as well.

If you read what many NFL people say about the pre-season (and there's a new push to expand the season to 18 games and reduce the pre-season to two games), it becomes clear that this exact sort of discussion has gone on at the NFL level. I think there's a good chance we'll see that change in the next ten years.

I see no need to limit game plan percentages. That doesn't address the issue.

cthomer5000 · 08-09-2006, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbmagic

Hopefully Jim will add this on the next version of FOF.

worst idea ever.

Solecismic · 08-09-2006, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkyDog

That's great news! My hope would be that this will vary from player to player in accordance with overall experience, experience on the current team, and other factors, to the point that none of us can ever come up with a formula to find out EXACTLY how much playing time a player of X years experience and Y years on the team needs to remove the "rust."

I have an interface planned (and this is subject to change), where you have to choose how many donuts to feed each player every week and how much time he's allowed to spend with his family.

It's a bit cumbersome, but after a couple of new versions, I'll be sure to add a new screen allowing you to set those donut feedings globally, based on position.

MIJB#19 · 08-09-2006, 11:37 AM

So, how to counter this to avoid injuries in MP then? Let the team pass and hope every play results in a completion?

Riggins44 · 08-09-2006, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solecismic

I have an interface planned (and this is subject to change), where you have to choose how many donuts to feed each player every week and how much time he's allowed to spend with his family.

It's a bit cumbersome, but after a couple of new versions, I'll be sure to add a new screen allowing you to set those donut feedings globally, based on position.

Ah, the homer simpson feature... I like it.

flere-imsaho · 08-09-2006, 11:39 AM

Jim's post (#24) sums up how I feel about it better than I can (or have). Perhaps the best decision for the MP preseason is to turn off injuries and just sim all 5 weeks at once. Get it done with, at no risk of injuries.

Ben E Lou · 08-09-2006, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

Perhaps the best decision for the MP preseason is to turn off injuries and just sim all 5 weeks at once. Get it done with, at no risk of injuries.

Well done, sir.

Subby · 08-09-2006, 11:43 AM

In FOFL and GEFL we turn off injuries and sim pre-season games 1-3, allow a day in-between for gameplan/roster tweaking, then sim games 4-5. Taking this approach allows us to shave 5-6 days off of the worst part of the off-season...

Celeval · 08-09-2006, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkyDog

Hopefully he'll add Subby's gameplan czar idea as required for all multiplayer leagues, too.

I'm not familiar with this one.

MIJB#19 · 08-09-2006, 11:49 AM

37-3? Boo-yah, SD, we kicked your butt badly!

Subby · 08-09-2006, 11:50 AM

Gameplan Czar checks each every gameplan setting for each and every team before each and every game to ensure they are not cheating.

It geometrically increases the fun quotient.

Celeval · 08-09-2006, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Subby

Gameplan Czar checks each every gameplan setting for each and every team before each and every game to ensure they are not cheating.

It geometrically increases the fun quotient.

Cheating in what fashion? How can you cheat with your gameplan?

Subby · 08-09-2006, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celeval

Cheating in what fashion? How can you cheat with your gameplan?

Ummm...

Celeval · 08-09-2006, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Subby

Ummm...

PM me then. :-P

cthomer5000 · 08-09-2006, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celeval

PM me then. :-P

Your vision OK today?

Celeval · 08-09-2006, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

Your vision OK today?

Depends. If we're talking about "extreme" gameplans, then I don't see how that's cheating, especially since the game itself will smack you down if you're trying to seriously run it. If we're not, then I'm obviously having another blind day. :-D

Ben E Lou · 08-09-2006, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celeval

Depends. If we're talking about "extreme" gameplans, then I don't see how that's cheating, especially since the game itself will smack you down if you're trying to seriously run it. If we're not, then I'm obviously having another blind day. :-D

Kevin:

http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/...3&postcount=26

--Ben

Celeval · 08-09-2006, 12:00 PM

Nevermind, I'm being an idiot. Having missed Subby's czar post before, I thought there was actually an utility out there that did this, similar to the one talked about a while back about policing contract offers.

Nothing new, nothing to see here. Move along.

Re: Ben - yeah.. yeah... yeah...

08-09-2006, 06:35 AM	#3
gottimd Dearly Missed (9/25/77-12/23/08) Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: DC Suburbs	So what about if you want those extra points of development for a RB? __________________ NAFL New Orleans Saints GM/Co-Commish MP Career Record: 114-85 NAFL Super Bowl XI Champs In memory of Gavin Anthony: 7/22/08-7/26/08

08-09-2006, 08:44 AM	#10
Subby lolzcat Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: sans pants	Nice work! __________________ Superman was flying around and saw Wonder Woman getting a tan in the nude on her balcony. Superman said I going to hit that real fast. So he flys down toward Wonder Woman to hit it and their is a loud scream. The Invincible Man scream what just hit me in the ass!!!!! I do shit, I take pictures, I write about it: chrisshue.com

08-09-2006, 08:48 AM	#13
Ben E Lou Morgado's Favorite Forum Fascist Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Greensboro, NC	Flare, but how do you legislate against it? Is 10% running too little? 20%? Force people to use the AI-suggested gameplans in the preseasons??? __________________ The media don't understand the kinds of problems and pressures 54 million come wit'! Last edited by Ben E Lou : 08-09-2006 at 08:48 AM.

08-09-2006, 08:52 AM	#14
VPI97 Hokie, Hokie, Hokie, Hi Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Kennesaw, GA	Hopefully, this relevation will lead to a revamp of the pre-season in FOF. __________________ CT & Jivin - "Surprisingly Entertaining"

08-09-2006, 08:57 AM	#16
Subby lolzcat Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: sans pants	Turn off injuries in pre-season... __________________ Superman was flying around and saw Wonder Woman getting a tan in the nude on her balcony. Superman said I going to hit that real fast. So he flys down toward Wonder Woman to hit it and their is a loud scream. The Invincible Man scream what just hit me in the ass!!!!! I do shit, I take pictures, I write about it: chrisshue.com

08-09-2006, 06:22 AM	#2
yabanci College Benchwarmer Join Date: Jun 2003	seems like a desperate way to pick up an extra point or two... /shrug

08-09-2006, 08:36 AM	#6
Grammaticus Pro Rookie Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Tennessee	It still seems like taking advantage of the AI.

08-09-2006, 08:41 AM	#8
flere-imsaho Coordinator Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Chicagoland	You might as well link up the CFL thread, SkyDog.

08-09-2006, 08:55 AM	#15
flere-imsaho Coordinator Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Chicagoland	As was pointed out in the CFL, we'd rather not legislate against it. What we would prefer is for each GM is to practice some common courtesy and common sense towards their other GMs. Your preseason gameplans have the unintended consequence of getting parts of your opponents' teams on the field a lot more. Therefore, it's very likely some of those GM's starters will see the field a lot more than they intended, and thus be more susceptible to an injury happening. That's an unintended consequence. Since the #1 goal of preseason is to not have your most important players get injured, it seems to me that the common courtesy and common sense thing to do would be to give your preseason opponents a heads-up, and, even better, see if the two of you can work out gameplans for that game that will benefit the both of you. I don't want to legislate against it, but I'm not quite comfortable with you "springing" it on a MP league like this. And I think Raven Hawk has a right to be upset, given that your wildly-skewed preseason gameplan put two of his key offensive linemen at considerably more risk of injury than he had planned.

08-09-2006, 09:12 AM	#19
Celeval Pro Starter Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Cary, NC, USA	CFL thread?

08-09-2006, 09:14 AM	#20
cuervo72 Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Maryland	Well, I don't think preseason is going to be all that realistic anyway. Injuries or not, there's still no real reason to play anybody who is completely filled out, only guys who you're trying to develop. If he's already 77/77, I'm still sitting Jackie Percy, as there's no real growth potential (apparent, anyway). __________________ null

08-09-2006, 10:04 AM	#23
jbmagic Pro Starter Join Date: Apr 2004	Won't more plays with bad stats performance decrease a player development too right? More plays can also lead to more injuries.

08-09-2006, 10:09 AM	#24
Solecismic Solecismic Software Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Canton, OH	Difficult problem here. The easy answer is that NFL teams are courteous to each other and to the fans. The league has a vested interest in teams at least pretending to be competitive during the pre-season. So, if a coach did what Ben did, it's likely the league office would take action to prevent it from happening again. Young players would develop more if games were extended in this manner, but fans would become irate if games were treated as an extended practice session. The pre-season is an extended practice session, however. That's the pretense we're asked to go along with when we buy our NFL season tickets. The NFL just won't admit it, while baseball teams openly admit it and don't require their fans to travel to Florida and purchase tickets to those games. As far as FOF is concerned, one change that's on the list (usual evasive verbiage about which game is next, and when) is that players will need to get in a certain amount of playing time to remove the "rust" each season. The second change is that my research suggests young players aren't quite developing fast enough in FOF. So that will change a little. I'm not going into the details of how all this works in FOF, but given the injury risks and the peer pressure, I would suspect that MP leagues should act as the NFL would, and adopt an "I don't like what I see, please stop it" policy for this type of behavior. Because it would be fairly difficult, and include extremely little reward for the gamer, to create an economic disincentive and/or a nagging commissioner's role in the game.

08-09-2006, 10:31 AM	#25
jbmagic Pro Starter Join Date: Apr 2004	One way is to have the FOF gameplans % for runs and pass have a minimum and maximum % you can set it too. This way we won't have these extreme gameplans being made.

08-09-2006, 10:53 AM	#27
QuikSand lolzcat Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Annapolis, Md	I just can't imagine any MP league thinking about trying to ban this practice having such a proposal pass the common sense "juice worth the squeeze" test. The exhibition games in FOF are demonstrably pointless in most respects -- who on earth would a league invest meaningful resources into setting rules on how "realistically" they are being played? Nice thread, SkyDog, good idea, and I see no problem with it.

08-09-2006, 11:37 AM	#36
MIJB#19 Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Maassluis, Zuid-Holland, Netherlands	So, how to counter this to avoid injuries in MP then? Let the team pass and hope every play results in a completion? __________________ * 2005 Golden Scribe winner for best FOF Dynasty about IHOF's Maassluis Merchantmen * Former GM of GEFL's Houston Oilers and WOOF's Curacao Cocktail

08-09-2006, 11:39 AM	#38
flere-imsaho Coordinator Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Chicagoland	Jim's post (#24) sums up how I feel about it better than I can (or have). Perhaps the best decision for the MP preseason is to turn off injuries and just sim all 5 weeks at once. Get it done with, at no risk of injuries.

08-09-2006, 11:43 AM	#40
Subby lolzcat Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: sans pants	In FOFL and GEFL we turn off injuries and sim pre-season games 1-3, allow a day in-between for gameplan/roster tweaking, then sim games 4-5. Taking this approach allows us to shave 5-6 days off of the worst part of the off-season... __________________ Superman was flying around and saw Wonder Woman getting a tan in the nude on her balcony. Superman said I going to hit that real fast. So he flys down toward Wonder Woman to hit it and their is a loud scream. The Invincible Man scream what just hit me in the ass!!!!! I do shit, I take pictures, I write about it: chrisshue.com

08-09-2006, 11:49 AM	#42
MIJB#19 Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Maassluis, Zuid-Holland, Netherlands	37-3? Boo-yah, SD, we kicked your butt badly! __________________ * 2005 Golden Scribe winner for best FOF Dynasty about IHOF's Maassluis Merchantmen * Former GM of GEFL's Houston Oilers and WOOF's Curacao Cocktail

08-09-2006, 11:50 AM	#43
Subby lolzcat Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: sans pants	Gameplan Czar checks each every gameplan setting for each and every team before each and every game to ensure they are not cheating. It geometrically increases the fun quotient. __________________ Superman was flying around and saw Wonder Woman getting a tan in the nude on her balcony. Superman said I going to hit that real fast. So he flys down toward Wonder Woman to hit it and their is a loud scream. The Invincible Man scream what just hit me in the ass!!!!! I do shit, I take pictures, I write about it: chrisshue.com

08-09-2006, 12:00 PM	#50
Celeval Pro Starter Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Cary, NC, USA	Nevermind, I'm being an idiot. Having missed Subby's czar post before, I thought there was actually an utility out there that did this, similar to the one talked about a while back about policing contract offers. Nothing new, nothing to see here. Move along. Re: Ben - yeah.. yeah... yeah... Last edited by Celeval : 08-09-2006 at 12:01 PM.

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