good time to hire spokepersons...

[FrogMan]

Sponsor spirit will reset with this week's weekly update.

Last season, that reset, combined with my relegation to level V meant a drop in contribution from my sponsors to the tune of a minus 8500 U$. This drop happened in the weekly update right before the first round of the cup, i.e. the weekly update that should happen tomorrow. I had 4 spokepersons on my staff at that moment. And yes, I have a spreadsheet to back all that up :)

I remember that after seeing my sponsor money drop from one week to the other, I went on the conferences and some people recommended to jump your number of spokepersons to 10 just before the first update of the new season, keep it at 10 for about 6 weeks and start firing one or so a week after that. Their reasoning was that you gain more money at the beginning and boosting your number of spokepersons to 10 would help fight the sponsor spirit drop from the reset.

Take it for what it's worth, but I have just hired 7 spokeperson, to bring my total from 3 to 10. I'll see after a week or two to see if it's still worth it...

FM

[MacroGuru]

Hey FrogMan,

I know I might be opening a can of worms, but what all do you have spreadsheets for?

Since this is my first "new" season. I would be interested in what others keep track of, and maybe doing it for myself as well.

[bbor]

He is the spreadsheet master...i heard his wife complain the other day that he has their sex life on spread sheet:D

[Easy Mac]

It must be a bunch of zeros.

[vex]

Yeah, I bumped up to 6 last night from 2.

[daedalus]

You ever heard of Ginsu Knives? It shops, it slices, it dices? Ya, Frogger does Ginsu Spreadsheets.

Oh, and good information. Mucho danke for sharing, Frogger. :)

[daedalus]

Okies, I know what vex meant for his post but it still amuses to no end to see the consecutive posts:He is the spreadsheet master...i heard his wife complain the other day that he has their sex life on spread sheet:DIt must be a bunch of zeros.Yeah, I bumped up to 6 last night from 2.

[Alf]

I use this spreadsheet mainly for money purposes. HAM does the player & matches stuff. (Although I do compute each opponent NSI). I also use it for training (bumps) & MOTS/PIC.

[Alf]

dola. I also think it is time to bump spokies to 10 (I personnaly did that too)

[MacroGuru]

Thanks Alf!

[FrogMan]

Dennis, I'm writing my reply and will also include my spreadsheet in there in a few minutes...

FM

[FrogMan]

Originally posted by indoorsoccersim
Hey FrogMan,

I know I might be opening a can of worms, but what all do you have spreadsheets for?

Since this is my first "new" season. I would be interested in what others keep track of, and maybe doing it for myself as well.

Dennis, no can of worms, you just gave everybody (myself included) a good chance to laugh at my expense :)

Since Alf has already included his spreadsheet, I've decided to zip mine and attach it here too. Basically, I keep track of my team's finances, training, trainees buying/selling/profit, my game ratings/stars totals over time (on a team level). I also have a Roster sheet where I can see all of my player's current ratings (parsed from the a simple copy/paste from your "players" page on HT) and where I compute some sort of position value for all players. My computation are derived from the ABC of Tactics site. For all players development (skills changes and value changes over time) I use HAM.

Here's a quick rundown of the different useful tabs in the spreadsheet:

"db" is where all ability vocabulary is kept and also all coefficients use in computing player's position rating
"INSTRUCTIONS" includes what little documentation I have put together so far. It's not finished and some sheets might not be in there...
"sheet1" is just some results from me playing with MyBestTeam
"SALARIES" is where I store the player salaries. Has to be updated whenever I buy a player or at the beginning of the season.
"TRANSFER" is where I go to instantly evaluate talent from the transfer market compared to my other players on my team. See instructions.
"parser" is where you copy/paste you players list, as text, straight from Hattrick
"TEAM" is where you should see all your players and their position ratings. There's a bunch of hidden columns if you wanna have fun :)
"SPONSORS" is my sheet for analysis of how many spokepersons I should have on staff. My logic is always that my spokepersons I pay should be able to pay themsleves back before the end of the following season. For example, if I have 10 on staff, then between update #1 and update #2, they have to increase my sponsor income by at least 1071 U$ (which is 15000 divided by the number of updates remaining which is 14)
"FINANCES" is where I keep track of my week to week money movement... Columns written in grey are projections of what to expect in the future. This is where I can see how I took the hit in sponsors money before the first cup game last season.
"GAMES" is where I keep track of my games, sort of summary-style. Includes possession information, crowd, revenu, home crowd analysis for cup and league games played at home, ratings and stars for both my team and my opponent.
"RATINGSCALC" is the same kind of thing I use to compute every team's rating for the weekly rankings. Copy/paste your rankings in there,. straight from your game report...
"TRAINING" is for how many weeks a player has been trained. If you unhide the hidden rows, you'll see the players with "X" and "o" under certain weeks. A "X" is when the player played as inner midfield and a "o" is when a player played winger. It should take into account the quality of the coach, the age of the player and teh percentage of training. I'm not certain if the number of assistants formula is accurate or not...
"ARENA" is my arena upgrading scenario calculator. I also keep track of my number of supporters over time on that sheet, with a projection of how many I should have at the end of this season...
The last three sheets (two CHARTS and a "data") are my visual aids to see how my team ratings and stars totals are moving over time...

Anyway, zipped, it's 240k, but once unzipped, this tiny little spreadsheet comes to just under 1 Mb :) Yeah, I'm a geek :p

Have fun!

FM

[MacroGuru]

WOW!!!

Thank you!

[Poli]

You suck :). I can't download this out here. You need to mail this little thing to me!

[FrogMan]

Originally posted by ardent enthusiast
You suck :). I can't download this out here. You need to mail this little thing to me!

Done. Check your mail Ardent.

FM

[Poli]

I'll let you know if and when I get it. I don't have it yet, and I know you sent it a while ago. Tried like five times to get it here, but I got as far as 50k, and then dropped it. Dang it! :)

Did you get mine?

[FrogMan]

Originally posted by ardent enthusiast
Did you get mine?

Yeah, I got it. I'll look at it at some point today or tonight. I'm about to go offline, but I'll get back to you by email...

FM

[FrogMan]

quick update on the results of hiring a full staff of 10 spokepersons for that first update of the season.

First, sponsors mood was briefly reset to calm, but that lasted only until the economic update happened. When the economic updates were done, the sponsors mood was already at satisfied. I liked that.

Second, we lost only 300 U$ as the result of the mood reset. However, that may also be because we are now in IV instead of in V, and sponsor money might be better in IV than in V...

What kind of sponsor money decrease (or even increase) has everybody experienced in their most recent economic update?

I'm trying to see if my decision to hire 7 more spokepersons was justified. Please post your number of spokepersons last week, the money you got then, and your number of spokepersons this week and the money you got this week...

Thanks in advance.

FM

[FrogMan]

dola,

my answer to the question would be:

Last week - 3 spokepersons, 43950 U$
This week - 10 spokepersons, 43650 U$

FM

[Desnudo]

Last Week - 5 spokes - HOL - $38,250
This Week - 5 spokes - Sats - $31,950

Edit: D V both times

[McSweeny]

Last Week - 4 spokes - HOL -$41,100

This Week - 10 spokes - sats - $35,400

DV both times

[AccardoOutfit29]

Last Week - 3 spokepersons, $42,300
This Week - 10 spokepersons, $38,250

DV both times.

[NAIWF]

Last week - 4SP @ HOL for $ 41,100
This week - 10 SP @ satisfied (?) for $35,400

Looks like McSweeney and I had the same update.

[Alf]

Last week - 2SP @ delirious for 48750 (D IV)
This week - 10SP @ calm for 47400 (D III)

Waiting for next week update to see the benefits

[Alf]

bump - after the first economic update

Week 1 of season 20 - 10SP @ delirious for 57900 !!!! up 10500 from last week. Definitely a great news

[Nyarlahotep]

Not really great news Alf. The extra SPs cost you 12k and you made an extra 10.5k (and they didn't even make all of the 10.5k).

[Alf]

Nyar : I know, but the sponsor money will surely again go up next week, and starting week 6-7 I will fire one spokie per week down to 3-4. The sponsor money will still be high and cover the salaries. That's my theory !

[FrogMan]

Originally posted by Alf
Nyar : I know, but the sponsor money will surely again go up next week, and starting week 6-7 I will fire one spokie per week down to 3-4. The sponsor money will still be high and cover the salaries. That's my theory !

Nyar, I'm with Alfie on this one. The way I see it, your spokepersons have to pay for themselves, but not necessarily right this week. As long as the increase stays there, they have X weeks to pay themselves back, where X is the number of weekly updates left between now and the end of this season, when the mood will be reset and the cycle starts over again...

Here's a table I have designed, based off Alf's table and other people's comments...

on the weekly SEASON 20
update right
before the league number of spokespersons
game of week… upd.left date 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10increase
aging Sunday 15 03-07-19 can't do anything since this is the first update of season -600
1 14 03-07-26 0.21 0.43 0.64 0.86 1.07 1.29 1.50 1.71 1.93 2.14
2 13 03-08-02 0.23 0.46 0.69 0.92 1.15 1.38 1.62 1.85 2.08 2.31
3 12 03-08-09 0.25 0.50 0.75 1.00 1.25 1.50 1.75 2.00 2.25 2.50
4 11 03-08-16 0.27 0.55 0.82 1.09 1.36 1.64 1.91 2.18 2.45 2.73
5 10 03-08-23 0.30 0.60 0.90 1.20 1.50 1.80 2.10 2.40 2.70 3.00
6 9 03-08-30 0.33 0.67 1.00 1.33 1.67 2.00 2.33 2.67 3.00 3.33
7 8 03-09-06 0.38 0.75 1.13 1.50 1.88 2.25 2.63 3.00 3.38 3.75
8 7 03-09-13 0.43 0.86 1.29 1.71 2.14 2.57 3.00 3.43 3.86 4.29
9 6 03-09-20 0.50 1.00 1.50 2.00 2.50 3.00 3.50 4.00 4.50 5.00
10 5 03-09-27 0.60 1.20 1.80 2.40 3.00 3.60 4.20 4.80 5.40 6.00
11 4 03-10-04 0.75 1.50 2.25 3.00 3.75 4.50 5.25 6.00 6.75 7.50
12 3 03-10-11 1.00 2.00 3.00 4.00 5.00 6.00 7.00 8.00 9.00 10.00
13 2 03-10-18 1.50 3.00 4.50 6.00 7.50 9.00 10.50 12.00 13.50 15.00
14 1 03-10-25 3.00 6.00 9.00 12.00 15.00 18.00 21.00 24.00 27.00 30.00
qual Sunday 0 03-11-01 can't do anything since this is the last update of the season


The first column represents the number of the week in which the update occurs, presented in term of which league game will be played the day after the update occurs. For example, this week is the update of week 1, since the week 1 game will be played tomorrow.

This table is all in C$ so divide by two to have the figures in U$. The figures in the different columns represent by how much your sponsor money (in thousands of C$) should increase for the spokepersons to pay for themselves before the end of the season. So the table represent the increase needed, given a certain week (thus a certain number of updates to pay back) and a certain number of spokepersons on staff.

See on the week 1 line, under the 10 spokies columns, it says you should increase by at least 2140 C$ (or 1070 U$) for it to be worth it to have 10 spokies. This value is derived from 30000 C$ (cost of 10 spokepersons) divided by the number of updates remaining (14 in the case of week 1). This means that if an increase of 2140 is maintained over the next 14 weeks, I will have gained back 2140*14 = 29960 C$... This reasoning may be flawed, but it was simple enough to implement to be worth it try.

As for Alf, lets say he keeps on increasing , even only 2000 this week, his 10500 is still there and should stay there at least until the beginning of next season... This is the way to being breakeven over a two week period...

FM

[Nyarlahotep]

I have no doubt that over the course of the season they will more than pay for themselves. I was just pointing out that losing money isn't great news. In fact, one site (I forget which) has a table that shows you when you should start to fire Sps to maximize your profit over the course of a season.

[FrogMan]

Originally posted by Nyarlahotep
I have no doubt that over the course of the season they will more than pay for themselves. I was just pointing out that losing money isn't great news. In fact, one site (I forget which) has a table that shows you when you should start to fire Sps to maximize your profit over the course of a season.

The table I got here is basically my version of the table presented at Hattrick Gameday. It should tell you when to fire spokepersons. Say if you there is 5 updates left and you still have your 10 spokepersons, they should bring in an increase of at least 6000 C$ (3000 U$) to be worth it. If not, then you should fire one (or more)...

FM

[FrogMan]

Originally posted by Alf
bump - after the first economic update

Week 1 of season 20 - 10SP @ delirious for 57900 !!!! up 10500 from last week. Definitely a great news

I never commented directly to that update, although I got into a long presentation of my studies :)

Alf, I think this is great news! If I get that kind of update tonight, I'll be ecstatic to say the least. I'll keep you posted about how mine went...

FM

[Alf]

The table I used in my XL file game from Hattrick Gameday but seems outdated now. Frogman's approach makes more sense !

[FrogMan]

Here's how my update looked this week.


Week 0: 43 650
Week 1: 50 700 increase: 7 050


This is my very best increase ever. Before that, my sponsor money had never increased by more than 3300 in a weekly update. It's a little less han Alf, but that would have to be expected since he's in III and I'm still in IV.

This also means that since I expect this 7050 to stay, the 10 spokepersons I had on staff, even though they made me lose money this week, will have increased my revenu stream of 98 700 over the next 14 weeks of this season, while costing me 15 000 this week...

I will keep updating this thread as the season goes along.

FM

[daedalus]

Figure I'd chime in, even if a bit late, since I'm finally daring enough to peek at my Economy page.

My sponsor money went from 57 000 last week to 66 900 this week along with their attitude going to delirious. I'd definitely say the extra 5-7 (I don't remember if I had 3 or 5 before) is worth it for my team. Even if I start to slowly 'downsize' my spokesperson department by 1 each week until they're back down to 5, I think I'd still come out ahead.

By the way . . . thanks for the reminder, Frogger. I would've forgotten, even though I'd fully intended to do this. Heh.

[FrogMan]

Here's how my update looked this week...


Week 0: 43 650
Week 1: 50 700 increase: 7 050
Week 2: 55 650 increase: 4 950


Following the same demonstration I made last week, this means that, assuming this 4950 increase stays on for the last 13 updates to happen this season, my 10 spokepersons on staff this week have brought an extra 64 350, while costing me 15 000. They all will keep their job one more week :)

For thos of you comparing with the table presented previously, remember that the figures in the table are in canadian dollars. What I presented in this post is in US dollars.

FM

[Alf]

10 spokies. 2 loss (in cup & league) and still increases in money.


Week 0: 47 400
Week 1: 57 900 increase: 10 500
Week 2: 64 950 increase: 7 050


Like FrogMan. The 10 spokies still stay. Money is Euro which is equiv to $US

[Alf]

10 spokies.

Week 0: 47 400
Week 1: 57 900 increase: 10 500
Week 2: 64 950 increase: 7 050
Week 3: 68 850 increase: 3 900

Week 3 : sponsors are high on life

[FrogMan]

With the economic update finally done, here's how my sponsors money looks. Still 10 spokpersons on staff, sponsors are high on life.


Week 0: 43 650
Week 1: 50 700 increase: 7 050
Week 2: 55 650 increase: 4 950
Week 3: 58 350 increase: 2 700


Same analysis can be done. Assuming that 2700 increase remains for the rest of the season, my 10 spokepersons have increased my season revenues of 32400 which is better than the 15000 they cost me this week. We're getting closer and closer to the point where I'll have to fire one of them, but for now they all keep their job for one more week :)

FM

[thealmighty]

Thanks for the continuing update, cuz I would never remember to check on firing one on my own. You're a champ, FrogMan.

[Nyarlahotep]

I'm interested in seeing how this goes. I hired my extras up to 10 when the season started, but haven't really tracked the increases. I seem to remember losing some sponsor money when I fired some last year, so seeing that they aren't even paying their own wages after week 3 for FM's team is a little disheartening.

[FrogMan]

see this as my and Alf's special spokie experiment :) Other than the beginning of the season, I have never seen a loss in sponsor money, not even when I dropped my number of spokepersons from 4 to 2 between the 3rd and 4th economic update, although it did drop the increase from 2700C$ to 900C$...

Remember that my theory is all based on the fact that an increase in a given week is there to stay until the beginning of next season... Will se how it goes...

FM

[Nyarlahotep]

I'm about 99% sure that when I fired spokesmen last year while trying to avoid bankruptcy that my sponsor revenue actually dropped after I did.

[FrogMan]

Originally posted by Nyarlahotep
I'm about 99% sure that when I fired spokesmen last year while trying to avoid bankruptcy that my sponsor revenue actually dropped after I did.

Maybe I will see a drop this season, but I track these thing in a spreadsheet (what else :) ) and I didn't get a drop. We'll see as the season goes on. Maybe I'll see a drop when I'll fire one, and then I'll say: "Damn, the flower salesman was right ;)" I just want to try and keep this going for at least this season. One thing is pretty clear in my head, I don't want to fire more than one, maybe two, per week...

FM

[Nyarlahotep]

I'm just going to follow your lead this season and actually track how mine do next season.

[Alf]

10 spokies. They stay, close to the limit though

Week 0: 47 400
Week 1: 57 900 increase: 10 500
Week 2: 64 950 increase: 7 050
Week 3: 68 850 increase: 3 900
Week 4: 72 150 increase: 3 300

Week 4 : sponsors are high on life

[daedalus]

Originally posted by Alf
10 spokies. They stay, close to the limit thoughSorry, but what are you looking for as far as when to start downsizing?

[FrogMan]

Originally posted by daedalus
Sorry, but what are you looking for as far as when to start downsizing?

Look at the table presented above (except it is in Canadian dollars :) ). Alf and I are following the same theory that your spokepersons need to pay for themselves before the end of the season.

For example, following the table, for the week 4 update, if you have 10 spokepersons, they should bring in an increase of at least 2730 C$ (or 1365 U$) or else you should fire some of them. I think Alf got mixed up with the table because he's not really all that close to the limit.

My calculation for his team, to explain the theory, is all based on the fact that I think this increase will stick until the end of the season. So, 3300 increase with 11 weeks left means his spokepersons brought in an extra 36300 while costing 15000. So they are all still worth it. The 1365 figure from the table is 15000/11 by the way...

I'll post my figures later on tonight.

FM
edit: typos

[daedalus]

Originally posted by FrogMan
Look at the table presented above (except it is in Canadian dollars :) ). Alf and I are following the same theory that your spokepersons need to pay for themselves before the end of the season.I . . . did. Table hard. Brain too small. :redface:

For example, following the table, for the week 4 update, if you have 10 spokepersons, they should bring in an increase of at least 2730 C$ (or 1365 U$) or else you should fire some of them. I think Alf got mixed up with the table because he's not really all that close to the limit.Oh. I think I sort of follow now. The table, at least. The theory is still WAY over my head.

[FrogMan]

Originally posted by daedalus
I . . . did. Table hard. Brain too small. :redface:

...

Oh. I think I sort of follow now. The table, at least. The theory is still WAY over my head.

He, he... See this excel thing can be useful sometimes. I'll repost and explain the table a little better, this time with figures in U$.

Here's the table again:

on the weekly
update right
before the league number of spokespersons
game of week… updates le date 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
aging Sunday 15 03-07-19 can't do anything since this is the first update of season
1 14 03-07-26 107 214 321 429 536 643 750 857 964 1071
2 13 03-08-02 115 231 346 462 577 692 808 923 1038 1154
3 12 03-08-09 125 250 375 500 625 750 875 1000 1125 1250
4 11 03-08-16 136 273 409 545 682 818 955 1091 1227 1364
5 10 03-08-23 150 300 450 600 750 900 1050 1200 1350 1500
6 9 03-08-30 167 333 500 667 833 1000 1167 1333 1500 1667
7 8 03-09-06 188 375 563 750 938 1125 1313 1500 1688 1875
8 7 03-09-13 214 429 643 857 1071 1286 1500 1714 1929 2143
9 6 03-09-20 250 500 750 1000 1250 1500 1750 2000 2250 2500
10 5 03-09-27 300 600 900 1200 1500 1800 2100 2400 2700 3000
11 4 03-10-04 375 750 1125 1500 1875 2250 2625 3000 3375 3750
12 3 03-10-11 500 1000 1500 2000 2500 3000 3500 4000 4500 5000
13 2 03-10-18 750 1500 2250 3000 3750 4500 5250 6000 6750 7500
14 1 03-10-25 1500 3000 4500 6000 7500 9000 10500 12000 13500 15000
qual Sunday 0 03-11-01 can't do anything since this is the last update of the season

The first column represents the week of the update you wanna check. The title says "on the weekly update right before the league game of week…". The first update is teh one where we usually see our sponsor money take a dip and I called it "aging Sunday". After that, you see week numbers. The second column is the number of updates left in the season and the third column is the date of the update. The next ten columns represent by how much your sponsor money should increase, depending on how many spokepersons you have on staff. For example, take Alf's update for week 4, knowing he has 10 spokepersons on staff, you go to the line for week 4 and column 10, and you find 1364. This means that his sponsor money has to increase by at least 1364 U$ for his 10 spokepersons to be worth they salary. He got an increase of 3300, so he's fine. Had he got an increase of less than 1364, following the table and my theory, he should have fired one or more spokepersons.

It's only a theory, but it's the rule I gave myself to see when it would be necessary to fire spokepersons...

FM

[FrogMan]

Okey, week 4 update is done. 10 spokepersons on staff, sponsors are dancing in the streets, WOOHOO!!!

Here's how it's shaping up.

Week 0: 43 650
Week 1: 50 700 increase: 7 050
Week 2: 55 650 increase: 4 950
Week 3: 58 350 increase: 2 700
Week 4: 60 300 increase: 1 950


I'm getting really close to that "fire 'em" threshold. Will probably not make it next week if I keep all of them on staff, but I'll keep all 10 for one more week (as we hear applause and shouts in the staff office of the Pittbulls :) ).

The limit is 1500 next week (week 5 with 10 spokepersons).

FM

[Alf]

Frogman, so we know that we are going to fire these poor guys sometime. Do you know when to fire them/him

- Saturday after the update knowing he would cost you the following week
- the next Friday so he can work 6 days extra for free ?).

[Nyarlahotep]

They don't work for free. If they aren't there when the update goes through, they don't get applied. Kind of like training.

[FrogMan]

Alf, I agree with Nyarlahotep on this. I think the game engine simply checks when it does the weekly update, to see how many of them you have on staff, so it wouldn't really matter if you fire them right after the update, or on Friday...

FM

[Alf]

10 spokies.

Week 0: 47 400
Week 1: 57 900 increase: 10 500
Week 2: 64 950 increase: 7 050
Week 3: 68 850 increase: 3 900
Week 4: 72 150 increase: 3 300
Week 5: 73 500 increase: 1 350

Week 5 : sponsors are dancing in the streets

Well, that's it, I am going to need to fire one of these guys... Sorry man. Since I am also close to the next limit, I might even fire 2.

[cheetum]

something that everyone seems to be neglecting is the fact that spokesmen also help you gain supporters (or lower supporter losses). every single supporter you gain can mean over $2000 extra dollars a season for the rest of your teams life. Unless you include the potential revenue loss from lower supporter gains (or higher supporter losses) then your calculations are not as accurate as you may imagine.

Lets say you play this game for 10 more seasons. Lets say your team is no better then average, each supporter is still worth at LEAST $2000 a season for your team. lets say you are on a win streak and gaining 10 supporters a pop (20 a week) with 10 spokesmen. you drop to 7 spokesmen and suddenly you are gaining 9. this is 2 supporters a week, or $4000 dollars a season. in the next 10 seasons you just lost your team $40,000. unless you rehire those spokesmen you will lose that potential $40,000 every single week.

now how does THAT change your calculations?

[FrogMan]

Cheetum, no it won't change my calculations. I know my calculations are not very accurate but I have no way of knowing how many supporters one more spokeperson can bring (or save from losing). Last season I had between 2 and 4 spokepersons at different times in the season as I was experimenting and I never saw any difference in supporters increase.

Also, I don't want to go into complex calculations of how much money I can make (or lose) over the next 3, 5, or even 10 seasons, because my team is fairly young and right now, I'm simply happy to break even over a two week period (one home and one away game). Because of that, the cost of one spokeperson in the present season is important to me, simply to keep on earning money right now and not looking at the money I could be earning. I know that at some point, someday, I'll be able to afford 10 physios, 10 spokepersons, even 10 doctors if need be, but right now, I tried to get some sort of simple formula to see when I would have "one too many" spokepersons...

Thanks for your comment though. Everybody should understand that my little theory should be take with a grain of salt, as with pretty much everything there is about Hattrick :)

FM

[FrogMan]

Well, we finally went below the threshold for the given week... Here's how it looks so far:


Week 0: 43 650
Week 1: 50 700 increase: 7 050
Week 2: 55 650 increase: 4 950
Week 3: 58 350 increase: 2 700
Week 4: 60 300 increase: 1 950
Week 5: 61 650 increase: 1 350


For everybody to be worth keeping, I should have earned 1500. The bad news is we will have to fire at least one (booo, hisss!!! from the spokies on staff), but the good news is we will fire only one (long sigh of relief from the staff)...

Maybe we should fire two this week, but I'm kind of worried of the effect on my sponsor money if I fire more than one, so I'll go with one, see how it goes, and maybe fire one per week for a few weeks...

FM

[cheetum]

My team is pretty young too, Ive only had 3 full seasons. Young teams are the ones who gain the most supporters and this is when spokesmen make the biggest difference since supporter growth slows down as the supporter club gets bigger. I know what you mean about money being tight but I regret not having more spokesmen in my first couple seasons. I could have a lot more supporters by now if I had.

thanks for posting this though your findings are still intersting. I think they would be most beneficial to teams who have been around for many seasons and no longer gain many supporters

[FrogMan]

you are right about young teams getting the most from their supporters/sponsors, and that is quite a paradox as this is when we have a more difficult time paying spokepersons.

I received my team with 4 games left in season 18 and last season, as I said, I had between 2 and 4 spokepersons at different times during the season. This is the first season where I really go all out and hire a whole 10 spokepersons from the beginning of the season, so I'm learning as I go... We'll see where it takes me.

Also nice to see is that Alf is in III, so it gives us an idea of a different level than me in IV...

FM

[daedalus]

Another interesting variable (more numbers for the Excel file!) you might consider keeping tabs of is the number of supporters that signs up. I'm getting a higher number of signups than I was last year and, sadly, I'm winning at a *slightly* lower clip (*cough*6th*cough*place*cough*).

[Alf]

daedalus, of couse this number is also kept (but it more or less also relates to win-loss)

[FrogMan]

Originally posted by daedalus
Another interesting variable (more numbers for the Excel file!) you might consider keeping tabs of is the number of supporters that signs up. I'm getting a higher number of signups than I was last year and, sadly, I'm winning at a *slightly* lower clip (*cough*6th*cough*place*cough*).

daedalus, you underestimate me... :) You should know I'm already keeping track of how many supporters sign in on a weekly basis... :)

look at this...

date (Friday) week supporter diff
03-02-21 ???
03-02-28 560
03-03-07 586 26
03-03-14 604 18
03-03-21 615 11 average game
03-03-28 559 -56 increase off
03-04-04 576 17 17.0 off
03-04-11 19.01 605 29 23.0 19.01 576 home
03-04-18 19.02 626 21 22.3 19.02 605 away
03-04-25 19.03 654 28 23.8 19.03 626 away
03-05-02 19.04 680 26 24.2 19.04 654 home
03-05-09 19.05 706 26 24.5 19.05 680 away
03-05-16 19.06 732 26 24.7 19.06 706 home
03-05-23 19.07 758 26 24.9 19.07 732 away
03-05-30 19.08 784 26 25.0 19.08 758 home
03-06-06 19.09 810 26 25.1 19.09 784 away
03-06-13 19.10 830 20 24.6 19.10 810 home
03-06-20 19.11 856 26 24.8 19.11 830 away
03-06-27 19.12 880 24 24.7 19.12 856 home
03-07-04 19.13 904 24 24.6 19.13 880 home
03-07-11 19.14 928 24 24.6 19.14 904 away
03-07-18 19.15 1047 119 off 928
03-07-25 19.16 1056 9 9.0 off 1047
03-08-01 20.01 1084 28 18.5 20.01 1056 home
03-08-08 20.02 1095 11 16.0 20.02 1084 away
03-08-15 20.03 1115 20 17.0 20.03 1095 home
03-08-22 20.04 1135 20 17.6 20.04 1115 home
03-08-29 20.05 1159 24 18.7 20.05 1135 away
from here, it's only forecasts...
03-09-05 20.06 1174 20.06 1159 home
03-09-12 20.07 1189 20.07 1174 away
03-09-19 20.08 1204 20.08 1189 home
03-09-26 20.09 1219 20.09 1204 away
03-10-03 20.10 1234 20.10 1219 home
03-10-10 20.11 1249 20.11 1234 away
03-10-17 20.12 1264 20.12 1249 away
03-10-24 20.13 1279 20.13 1264 home
03-10-31 20.14 1294 20.14 1279 away
03-11-07 20.15 1309 off 1294
03-11-14 20.16 off 1309


Complete with projections until the end of the current season :D

FM

[daedalus]

I would not dare underestimate you and your geekness! :D

I just meant that having the number of supporters added may be another number to consider along with just the amount of money in this study.

At the end of last season, my supporters addition was dwindling down into the 3-5 range even with my team doing fairly well so I thought I was getting fairly close to the mythical "soft limit". I'm back closer to the 9-11 range now with the 10 talking heads, even though we aren't doing quite as well. It's also the first time my team has been in the "dancing in the street" stage for Sponsors.

[FrogMan]

Oh yeah, my geekness knows no limit :D

You are right about the number of new supporters signing in, and cheetum brought that point too. Maybe I should add a column with the number of spokepersons, next to the weekly fan club growth...

For me, it's the other way around, but last year, I had a pretty small fan base and I was winning all the time and with big scores. But my sponsors never attained "dancing in the streets", which they did this season.

For the record, I have fired one spokie this week. We'll see hwo it goes...

FM

[sterlingice]

Somewhat off topic, but I didn't need a new thread to mention that I will probably need some new spokespersons after this week. Either that or suicide counselors for when I get drubbed 234523-1. :p

SI

[Alf]

Week 0: 47 400
Week 1: 57 900 increase: 10 500
Week 2: 64 950 increase: 7 050
Week 3: 68 850 increase: 3 900
Week 4: 72 150 increase: 3 300
Week 5: 73 500 increase: 1 350 (fired 1)
Week 6: 74 550 increase: 1 050 (will fire 3)

Week 6 : sponsors are dancing in the streets

Looking at frogman table, (I am at 9 spokies this week), I will need to fire 3 guys to go down to 6 spokespersons.

[FrogMan]

Forgot to update this yesterday...


Week 0: 43 650
Week 1: 50 700 increase: 7 050 staff: 10
Week 2: 55 650 increase: 4 950 staff: 10
Week 3: 58 350 increase: 2 700 staff: 10
Week 4: 60 300 increase: 1 950 staff: 10
Week 5: 61 650 increase: 1 350 staff: 10
Week 5: 62 550 increase: 900 staff: 9


Sponsors are stil dancing in the streets, which is nice, however, we are not reaching objectives. I should have received 1500 for the 9 spokepersons to pay for themselves. To reach an acceptable level, we should fire 3 this week, but I'm weary of firing too many at a time, so I will fire 1 for a few weeks, until it stabilizes. Also, I like getting the same number of new supporters for every update that I was getting last year when I was winning all the time in a bot league, even though I'v ony got 3 wins, 2 losses, and 1 draw...

FM

[Alf]

Week 0: 47 400
Week 1: 57 900 increase: 10 500
Week 2: 64 950 increase: 7 050
Week 3: 68 850 increase: 3 900
Week 4: 72 150 increase: 3 300
Week 5: 73 500 increase: 1 350 (fired 1)
Week 6: 74 550 increase: 1 050 (fired 3)
Week 7: 73 800 increase: - 750

Week 7 : sponsors are high on life

Well, FrogMan and I went different ways. I fired 3 (cost me 4500 last week but will save me 9*4500 over the course of this season => saving me 8*4500. Money decreased 750 => Money will decrease 750*9 until the start of next.

Net gain : 8*4500-9*750 = 29 250 $/€

Hovever, I don't know what to do now. Ideally, I would like to have a minimum of 2-3 spokies for supporters. I will wait both supporters update to decide.

Last week I had 2*13 new supporters (after a 1-0 league win).

[FrogMan]

Week 0: 43 650
Week 1: 50 700 increase: 7 050 staff: 10
Week 2: 55 650 increase: 4 950 staff: 10
Week 3: 58 350 increase: 2 700 staff: 10
Week 4: 60 300 increase: 1 950 staff: 10
Week 5: 61 650 increase: 1 350 staff: 10
Week 6: 62 550 increase: 900 staff: 9
Week 7: 63 150 increase: 600 staff: 8


Still another decrease, but at least we didn't lose anything we had gained in the first six weeks of the season. As Alf pointed out, we went different ways, which is interesting, since it will give us two different studies...

Not losing any sponsors money increase was one of the reason why I didn't want to fire 3 (or more) spokepersons at once. the other, that I thought about during the course of the first feew weeks, especially after reading cheetum's input in this thread, is the fact that my study started with a basis that is kind of false, that is the fact that spokepersons should pay for themselves in the number of updates left until next season. In fact, the increase in money they bring in is there practically forever, so if I can afford to pay them, and right now, I'm at least breakeven on a two weeks period with only 15 times my supporters in crowd (which is very low) with the staff I have on hand, I should keep proabbly as many of them as I can.

We've kind of established that the first 4 weeks are where it's most important to have a full staff of spokies, what you do after that would pretty much be up to you. Alf dropped 3 in a week, I decided to go one a week for a few weeks, somebody else could have decided to stay at 100 the whole season, it's pretty much up to you...

Good thing to note though, the sponsors remained dancing in the streets, which is nice. We will fire another spokeperson this week to bring the staff to 7...

I'll keep updating this here, as the season goes along, hoping you find anyting useful in my blabbering :)

FM

[Alf]

2003-09-08 Economy adjustments
As announced in the HT 6.5 document, we are dedicated to keeping the economy in Hattrick under control. This means acting before things go wrong. Currently our various indicators are clearly indicating that the deflationary tendencies are far higher than the risk for too much inflation. Hence we have decided to raise the sponsor income parameters, taking effect from next week. Also, from next season, spectator income per sold ticket will be increased by 25%.


I might rehire my 4 spokies up to 10 now...

[FrogMan]

I will probably won't rehire the two I have already fired, but I will definitely hold off on firing the one I was gonna fire this week.

Hear this, staff people, we'll stay at 8 this week (as we hear a huge applause in the staff people department) :)

FM

[NYFAN]

frogman, for some reason I can't get your parser to work. Do you have any clue what I may be doing wrong? Thanks.

[FrogMan]

Originally posted by NYFAN
frogman, for some reason I can't get your parser to work. Do you have any clue what I may be doing wrong? Thanks.

PM me your email adress and I'll send you a different version than the one posted in the first page of this thread. There was a few little things not quite right (mainly because of the U$ vs C$ thing) with the first one.

FM

[NYFAN]

sent

[Alf]

Week 0: 47 400
Week 1: 57 900 increase: 10 500
Week 2: 64 950 increase: 7 050
Week 3: 68 850 increase: 3 900
Week 4: 72 150 increase: 3 300
Week 5: 73 500 increase: 1 350 (fired 1)
Week 6: 74 550 increase: 1 050 (fired 3)
Week 7: 73 800 increase: - 750
Week 8: 81 345 increase: 7 545 (still at 6 with new economics rules)

[FrogMan]

thanks for letting me know. I think I'll rehire my two right now :D

FM

[FrogMan]

well, well, well, looks like our little study is down the drain, but I won't say no to some extra money, oh now my friend. Look at this:


Week 0: 43 650
Week 1: 50 700 increase: 7 050 staff: 10
Week 2: 55 650 increase: 4 950 staff: 10
Week 3: 58 350 increase: 2 700 staff: 10
Week 4: 60 300 increase: 1 950 staff: 10
Week 5: 61 650 increase: 1 350 staff: 10
Week 6: 62 550 increase: 900 staff: 9
Week 7: 63 150 increase: 600 staff: 8
Week 8: 71 115 increase: 7 965 staff: 10


Yep, we rehired back the two spokepersons we had fired these last two weeks. We'll see what kind of increase we get next week and we'll readjust after that. How the sponsor money moves in future weeks still remains to be seen. Having 10 spokies on staff can't be bad, and now that we can afford them, why not have them, if only to bring 1 or 2 more supporters in our fan club at every update (2 to 4 more per week)...

FM

[FrogMan]

dola, this is also the first week I see a bigger increase than Alf and I always thought it was normal that he sees a bigger increase, since he is in div III and I am in IV... My 10 spokepersons versus his 6 is probably what made the difference between our two updates...

FM

[FrogMan]

double dola, the sponsors are still dancing in the streets... :D

FM

[Alf]

dola, I am going to rehire the 4 guys now !

[cheetum]

sponsor income increased 12K for me this week, glad i kept my 10 spokesmen :)

[Alf]

Week 0: 47 400
Week 1: 57 900 increase: 10 500
Week 2: 64 950 increase: 7 050
Week 3: 68 850 increase: 3 900
Week 4: 72 150 increase: 3 300
Week 5: 73 500 increase: 1 350 (fired 1)
Week 6: 74 550 increase: 1 050 (fired 3)
Week 7: 73 800 increase: - 750
Week 8: 81 345 increase: 7 545 (still at 6 with new economics rules)
Week 9: 89 950 increase: 8 605 10 spokies (I rehired 4)

Week 9 : sponsors are dancing in the streets

At that rate, I think, that the guys can stay on the staff even during the offseason.

[FrogMan]

Originally posted by Alf
Week 9 : sponsors are dancing in the streets

At that rate, I think, that the guys can stay on the staff even during the offseason.

I was thinking the exact same thing this morning. I'll keep on updating my study here, but I don't see when I should fire any of them (and we hear a huge roar from teh staff room ;) )...

I'll update my figures a little later on today.

FM

[Alf]

dola, and despite 2 league games loss, I recruited 11 new fans today (up to 1344)

[FrogMan]

Week 0: 43 650
Week 1: 50 700 increase: 7 050 staff: 10
Week 2: 55 650 increase: 4 950 staff: 10
Week 3: 58 350 increase: 2 700 staff: 10
Week 4: 60 300 increase: 1 950 staff: 10
Week 5: 61 650 increase: 1 350 staff: 10
Week 6: 62 550 increase: 900 staff: 9
Week 7: 63 150 increase: 600 staff: 8
Week 8: 71 115 increase: 7 965 staff: 10
Week 9: 77 000 increase: 5 885 staff: 10


Sponsors are dancing in the streets.

Considering the table said I only needed an increase of 2500 in week 9 with 10 spokepersons and I got close to 6k, all the spokepersons will stay on staff for at least on more week. My guess would be that it'll go under the threshold around week 12, at which time I think I'll absord the hit and probably keep the 10, if simply to get a bit more supporters at every update.

FM

[Alf]

Week 0: 47 400
Week 1: 57 900 increase: 10 500
Week 2: 64 950 increase: 7 050
Week 3: 68 850 increase: 3 900
Week 4: 72 150 increase: 3 300
Week 5: 73 500 increase: 1 350 (fired 1)
Week 6: 74 550 increase: 1 050 (fired 3)
Week 7: 73 800 increase: - 750
Week 8: 81 345 increase: 7 545 (still at 6 with new economics rules)
Week 9: 89 950 increase: 8 605 10 spokies (I rehired 4)
Week 10: 92 400 increase: 2 450 10 spokies

Week 10 : sponsors are dancing in the streets

A couple more grands and I won't even lose money during my league Away games weeks ;)

[Alf]

dola. I am nearing the Sponsors Cap for DIII apparently, and I will fire 1 at a time starting this week (according to FrogMan's table)

[daedalus]

I guess I'm finally reaching some kind of limitation in sponsorship money increase, this last increase is only 1 050. Is this when you guys would be starting to cut down? [I'm keeping mine since I'd like to keep the signups high and I'm going to need their help with keeping my sponsort happy in the next few weeks.]

[Alf]

daed : At this point of the season, if you want your spokies to make money, sponsor increase should be 2500 (Frogman's table is at the bottom of page 2 in US$)

[FrogMan]

Just realized I had not updated my numbers here... Here we go:


Week 0: 43 650
Week 1: 50 700 increase: 7 050 staff: 10
Week 2: 55 650 increase: 4 950 staff: 10
Week 3: 58 350 increase: 2 700 staff: 10
Week 4: 60 300 increase: 1 950 staff: 10
Week 5: 61 650 increase: 1 350 staff: 10
Week 6: 62 550 increase: 900 staff: 9
Week 7: 63 150 increase: 600 staff: 8
Week 8: 71 115 increase: 7 965 staff: 10
Week 9: 77 000 increase: 5 885 staff: 10
Week 10: 78 575 increase: 1 575 staff: 10


Sponsors are still dancing in the streets but the increase has come back down from the two magical weeks we saw right the implementation of the new rules. For week 10, the table says the sponsors money should increase by 3000 with 10 spokepersons on staff (Alf, I think you read the line for the week 9 update) so we are obviously under the line. I will fire one spokeperson this week and maybe the following two weeks, to get to a level of 7 spokepersons only to hire them back right before the beginning of next season...

FM

[FrogMan]

Originally posted by daedalus
I guess I'm finally reaching some kind of limitation in sponsorship money increase, this last increase is only 1 050. Is this when you guys would be starting to cut down? [I'm keeping mine since I'd like to keep the signups high and I'm going to need their help with keeping my sponsort happy in the next few weeks.]

daed, as Alf answered (except the 3000 instead of 2500 part ;) ) yes that would be the time if you only took into account the amount of increase in your sponsor money and not other frivolous things like the numebr of new supporters that sign up per update :)

FM

[Alf]

I will only fire 1 at a time this time

[tucker rocky]

I had 7 spokes, then hired 3, supporters were delirious, now supporters are dancing in the streets. A jump of 2 levels, WOW!

[Alf]

Week 0: 47 400
Week 1: 57 900 increase: 10 500
Week 2: 64 950 increase: 7 050
Week 3: 68 850 increase: 3 900
Week 4: 72 150 increase: 3 300
Week 5: 73 500 increase: 1 350 (fired 1)
Week 6: 74 550 increase: 1 050 (fired 3)
Week 7: 73 800 increase: - 750
Week 8: 81 345 increase: 7 545 (still at 6 with new economics rules)
Week 9: 89 950 increase: 8 605 10 spokies (I rehired 4)
Week 10: 92 400 increase: 2 450 10 spokies
Week 11: 93 800 increase: 1 400 9 spokies
Week 12: 93 800 increase: 0 8 spokies


So sponsor money is leveling. I stopped firing spokespersons, though I think I should (money wise, that seems logical, but I can't resolve myself to do that)

[Alf]

Week 0: 47 400
Week 1: 57 900 increase: 10 500
Week 2: 64 950 increase: 7 050
Week 3: 68 850 increase: 3 900
Week 4: 72 150 increase: 3 300
Week 5: 73 500 increase: 1 350 (fired 1)
Week 6: 74 550 increase: 1 050 (fired 3)
Week 7: 73 800 increase: - 750
Week 8: 81 345 increase: 7 545 (still at 6 with new economics rules)
Week 9: 89 950 increase: 8 605 10 spokies (I rehired 4)
Week 10: 92 400 increase: 2 450 10 spokies
Week 11: 93 800 increase: 1 400 9 spokies
Week 12: 93 800 increase: 0 8 spokies
Week 13: 93 625 increase: - 175 8 spokies


I know I should be firing them (that makes sense economically), but I can't resign myself to doing it.

[Airhog]

If you were to fire your spokespersons, would you see a big drop in your sponsorship money?

[FrogMan]

I'll update my data tonight, but to answer your question Airhog, yes I saw a drop. I'm now at 7 spokepersons (cut from from 8 last week) and saw a drop of $700 this week...

FM

[FrogMan]

Okay, here's what the picture is for my team, a div IV team, compared to Alf's who is a div III team...


Week 0: 43 650
Week 1: 50 700 increase: 7 050 staff: 10
Week 2: 55 650 increase: 4 950 staff: 10
Week 3: 58 350 increase: 2 700 staff: 10
Week 4: 60 300 increase: 1 950 staff: 10
Week 5: 61 650 increase: 1 350 staff: 10
Week 6: 62 550 increase: 900 staff: 9
Week 7: 63 150 increase: 600 staff: 8
Week 8: 71 115 increase: 7 965 staff: 10
Week 9: 77 000 increase: 5 885 staff: 10
Week 10: 78 575 increase: 1 575 staff: 10
Week 11: 79 275 increase: 700 staff: 9
Week 12: 79 275 increase: 0 staff: 8
Week 13: 78 575 increase: -700 staff: 7


Just this past week did the sponsors' mood drop from dancing in the streets to high on life. I plan on finishing the year with 7 spokepersons and pump it up to 10 before the first update of the new season.

To finish answering Airhog's question, if you fire them all at once, I would expect a heck of a hit, but since I've gone with firing only one a week, it wasn't that bad...

FM

[Alf]

Week 0: 47 400
Week 1: 57 900 increase: 10 500
Week 2: 64 950 increase: 7 050
Week 3: 68 850 increase: 3 900
Week 4: 72 150 increase: 3 300
Week 5: 73 500 increase: 1 350 (fired 1)
Week 6: 74 550 increase: 1 050 (fired 3)
Week 7: 73 800 increase: - 750
Week 8: 81 345 increase: 7 545 (still at 6 with new economics rules)
Week 9: 89 950 increase: 8 605 10 spokies (I rehired 4)
Week 10: 92 400 increase: 2 450 10 spokies
Week 11: 93 800 increase: 1 400 9 spokies
Week 12: 93 800 increase: 0 8 spokies
Week 13: 93 625 increase: - 175 8 spokies
Week 14: 95 025 increase: 1 400 8 spokies

So I didn't fire any and this was a good move as sponsor money increased. The fact that I won last week is the other reason. Since I also won this Saturday, I expect the money to increase again next week too !

[Alf]

Season 20

Week 0: 47 400
Week 1: 57 900 increase: 10 500
Week 2: 64 950 increase: 7 050
Week 3: 68 850 increase: 3 900
Week 4: 72 150 increase: 3 300
Week 5: 73 500 increase: 1 350 (fired 1)
Week 6: 74 550 increase: 1 050 (fired 3)
Week 7: 73 800 increase: - 750
Week 8: 81 345 increase: 7 545 (still at 6 with new economics rules)
Week 9: 89 950 increase: 8 605 10 spokies (I rehired 4)
Week 10: 92 400 increase: 2 450 10 spokies
Week 11: 93 800 increase: 1 400 9 spokies
Week 12: 93 800 increase: 0 8 spokies
Week 13: 93 625 increase: - 175 8 spokies
Week 14: 95 025 increase: 1 400 8 spokies
Week 15: 96 425 increase: 1 000 8 spokies
Week 16: 67 980 increase: - 28 845 10 spokies (equiv to Week 0)

OK, so I lost 30% of my sponsor money. Hopefully this will go up quick.

I also lost 1 supporter instead of gaining 13 per update...

[Havok]

i lost 3 supporters.... that sucks

[Alf]

Season 20

Week 0: 47 400
Week 1: 57 900 increase: 10 500
Week 2: 64 950 increase: 7 050
Week 3: 68 850 increase: 3 900
Week 4: 72 150 increase: 3 300
Week 5: 73 500 increase: 1 350 (fired 1)
Week 6: 74 550 increase: 1 050 (fired 3)
Week 7: 73 800 increase: - 750
Week 8: 81 345 increase: 7 545 (still at 6 with new economics rules)
Week 9: 89 950 increase: 8 605 10 spokies (I rehired 4)
Week 10: 92 400 increase: 2 450 10 spokies
Week 11: 93 800 increase: 1 400 9 spokies
Week 12: 93 800 increase: 0 8 spokies
Week 13: 93 625 increase: - 175 8 spokies
Week 14: 95 025 increase: 1 400 8 spokies
Week 15: 96 425 increase: 1 000 8 spokies
Week 16: 67 980 increase: - 28 845 10 spokies (equiv to Week 0)

Season 21

Week 1: 80 190 increase: 12 210 10 spokies

Hopefully, we will be back to $95K soon