OT: Something bothering me regarding Texas Tech/Navy [Archive]

HornedFrog Purple

12-31-2003, 03:01 AM

and I am not sure why...

At the end of the TT/Navy game, Tech scored and the majority of the offense decided to do this for a celebration. In case you didn't see it:

They got in a circle after the touchdown and dropped the football in the middle of the circle. Then they acted like the football was a grenade and fell down and mimiced an explosion all falling down "dead" when it hit the turf.

Am I offbase here or is this "celebration" completely inappropriate against a military academy. Not only that it was on national TV and I am still thinking about it even hours after it happened.

I am ex-military myself so that may have something to do with it, so I thought I would ask what others thought.

thealmighty

12-31-2003, 03:05 AM

In the times we live in, that is just sick, imho.

Especially against a team whose members will soon be overseas putting their lives on the line.

Ragone

12-31-2003, 03:05 AM

man.. if i had been a navy player.. i would have went last boy scout on their collective ass'es :)

Hurst2112

12-31-2003, 03:08 AM

I am not ex military so I say that it wasn't that big of a deal. It wasn't a grenade, and nobody died. It's just a game.

I didn't know the navy used grenades.

Course, I tend to laugh at very rude things. A lot of things are funny.

Die Hand die Verletzt

12-31-2003, 03:35 AM

Originally posted by Hurst2112
I am not ex military so I say that it wasn't that big of a deal. It wasn't a grenade, and nobody died. It's just a game.

I didn't know the navy used grenades.

Course, I tend to laugh at very rude things. A lot of things are funny.

My father set up radio communications in Vietnam. He was Navy. He carried grenades and a rifle.

I've seen the grenade dance before. Its not very funny. Not very clever. I don't know if it should be considered overly offensive. I guess it depends on how you look at it.

I don't think the guys were implying that they hoped people would get killed by grenades, or anything.

Suicane75

12-31-2003, 06:42 AM

I'm sure they weren't implying that they were hopeing people would get hurt but it showed so little class it's unreal.
Andre Ware (I think that's who it was) was going nuts as was the one of the other announcers. All I could think about was how lucky they were that it WAS Navy because those kids are mentaly strong enough and have enough discipline to come over and go after the TT players, I mean really, they throw a meaningless TD late in the game and do the grenade dance? Idiots.

Leonidas

12-31-2003, 07:06 AM

The word classless comes to mind.

I bet they were just dissappointed they weren't playing Air Force. They probably had another dance ready where one guy spreads his arms out like a plane and the guy who scored pretends to shoot him down with a Stinger Missile.

Suicane75

12-31-2003, 07:11 AM

One more thing, I bet that If the Navy players went nuts and actually went after some TT players that this would be a very big story this morning and those idiots who participated in the dance would be under alot of fire, but because Navy just walked away and let it slide it gets no play.

cthomer5000

12-31-2003, 07:31 AM

Probably more moronic than intentionally rude. I'm fine with that celebration in general, but I think it's completely inappropriate against a military academy.

Samdari

12-31-2003, 07:45 AM

When soldiers are dying daily to improvised grenades, this is inappropriate against anyone.

JonInMiddleGA

12-31-2003, 08:30 AM

HFP - I suspect it bothered you because it was both inappropriate and classless.

Same reason it set off the announcers.
Same reason it set me off watching here at home.

Pumpy Tudors

12-31-2003, 08:41 AM

Okay, who knew that Pumpy was on his way with the following comment?

Class is overrated.

I can understand that some people might not like what the Texas Tech players did. I can understand that some people DO like what they did. The only thing about these situations that bothers me is that some people like to consider that such things are blatantly, across-the-board, unarguably offensive and inappropriate, and there are very few actions on a football field that fit that description.

I'd bet that the Texas Tech players did not congregate at any point and say "let's do a grenade thing because we're playing the military." I'm sure they would've done the same thing if they were playing Miami. From my unscientific observation, I've noticed that many people are offended when they read more into an action than the action itself. People look for meanings and agendas that aren't necessarily there.

Look, I'm not saying that you have to defend these kids or even excuse them. Feel free to sit at home and shake your head. Feel free to tell others that you find it offensive. I don't want people's opinions suppressed. I just see fewer and fewer people giving others the benefit of the doubt because they're always looking for the hot button.

I'm glad the media is staying out of this one, especially after the whole Kellen Winslow "I'm a soldier" thing got (in my opinion) blown out of proportion.

Fritz

12-31-2003, 08:41 AM

it is not inappropriate because of a fake grenade or fake death.

it is inappropriate because it was planned.

Pumpy Tudors

12-31-2003, 08:46 AM

I'm hoping (probably in vain) that a new breed of announcers will step in sometime in the next 10-15 years and shrug off or applaud planned and "classless" celebrations. First, I tend to love the celebrations. Second, I want to see the reactions of all the people who complain about them right now. Maybe they'll change the channel and watch cricket instead. :)

WSUCougar

12-31-2003, 08:47 AM

Okay, how about this, Pumpy: the Tech players should have said "let's not do a grenade thing because we're playing the military."

Their coach was embarassed by it in the post-game interview, and went out of his way to praise the class and hard-playing character of the Navy players. (Coach also seemed a little dim - anyone else notice that?).

scooper

12-31-2003, 08:51 AM

Originally posted by Pumpy Tudors
I'm hoping (probably in vain) that a new breed of announcers will step in sometime in the next 10-15 years and shrug off or applaud planned and "classless" celebrations. First, I tend to love the celebrations. Second, I want to see the reactions of all the people who complain about them right now. Maybe they'll change the channel and watch cricket instead. :)

They do exist. Watch professional "wrestling."

JonInMiddleGA

12-31-2003, 08:55 AM

Originally posted by Pumpy Tudors
First, I tend to love the celebrations.

Speaks volumes.

Pumpy Tudors

12-31-2003, 08:59 AM

Originally posted by WSUCougar
Okay, how about this, Pumpy: the Tech players should have said "let's not do a grenade thing because we're playing the military."

Good point.

Still, I submit that the only reason they DIDN'T think that way was because they did not recognize a correlation between that particular action and the military. Do some people wish they did? Of course. I accept that. To expect them to recognize that correlation is to suggest that all those guys should follow the same thought processes as the people who didn't like their actions.

See, this is where all these discussions get hairy for me. As I said before, I have no problem with people being upset or offended by others. It happens. A lot of times, though, when some people complain about things, it comes off like they're trying to tell people how others should think. I don't think it's my place to argue that people shouldn't be offended. As I said, I just don't see as many people giving the benefit of the doubt about any situation, including this one.

Pumpy Tudors

12-31-2003, 08:59 AM

Originally posted by JonInMiddleGA
Speaks volumes.

Indeed. It says I'm different from you. Anything else you may infer from that could be mere speculation.

Pumpy Tudors

12-31-2003, 09:01 AM

Originally posted by scooper
They do exist. Watch professional "wrestling."

I'm not much into soap operas, but I guess I could give it a try.

Fritz

12-31-2003, 09:13 AM

Originally posted by WSUCougar
Okay, how about this, Pumpy: the Tech players should have said "let's not do a grenade thing because we're playing the military."

can someone elaborate on this for me? I just don't get it.

Pumpy Tudors

12-31-2003, 09:14 AM

I wonder if I can get my forum title changed to "Classless Malcontent."

rkmsuf

12-31-2003, 09:16 AM

So the Chad Johnson machine gun celebration is probably out too then...

Ksyrup

12-31-2003, 09:19 AM

Originally posted by rkmsuf
So the Chad Johnson machine gun celebration is probably out too then...

But only if playing the New York Mafiosos.

Pumpy Tudors

12-31-2003, 09:22 AM

I saw Wesley Walls do a celebration when he played for the Panthers. It looked like he was bird hunting. I suppose that wouldn't fly if he was playing against Tennessee.

Ha ha. "Wouldn't fly." I don't crack me up.

Edit: There's a lot of hunting in Tennessee, though it may or may not be bird hunting. I have officially become a parody of myself.

rkmsuf

12-31-2003, 09:24 AM

I'm partial to The Worm. Hopefully no one is offended by that other than hard core Electric Boogaloo fans...

Leonidas

12-31-2003, 09:28 AM

This all goes along with those morons out there that like to equate football to war. I'm sure that's the genesis for all this and not some deliberate slam on the Naval Academy. Still it shows a lack of good judgement.

I am not offended by it, just dissappointed there are those out there who trivialize war in such a way by comparing it with sports. Sorry, but it ain't in the same ballpark.

DeToxRox

12-31-2003, 09:29 AM

Tech's coach said afterwards that he was disgusted with that celebration and that his team would hear about it.

From the sounds of it, spring workouts are going to be a bitch.

Ksyrup

12-31-2003, 09:35 AM

What about NcNabb's weekly TD celebrations in honor of Michael Jackson? That should offend someone.

rkmsuf

12-31-2003, 09:36 AM

Originally posted by Ksyrup
What about NcNabb's weekly TD celebrations in honor of Michael Jackson? That should offend someone.

I've yet to see one...what does do? Seems like it would be hard to mimic "jammin in the bed"...

Leonidas

12-31-2003, 09:37 AM

Originally posted by Ksyrup
What about NcNabb's weekly TD celebrations in honor of Michael Jackson? That should offend someone.

Now just because McNabb pulls a blanket out from under the goal post and asks a kid from the crowd to come out and join him the endzone is no reason to be offended.

Ksyrup

12-31-2003, 09:38 AM

Last week, he did the Thriller zombie move. I don't know what it was the week before that, but I read someone questioning why he would continue to do it, so I assume it was either the same thing or the moonwalk or something "trademarked" by Jackson. Maybe the "hollow nose."

ISiddiqui

12-31-2003, 09:38 AM

I submit that the only reason they DIDN'T think that way was because they did not recognize a correlation between that particular action and the military.

Totally agree. I bet they didn't put the celebration with the military together and would have done it if it was anyone. I have no problems with the celebration.

rkmsuf

12-31-2003, 09:41 AM

Originally posted by Ksyrup
Last week, he did the Thriller zombie move. I don't know what it was the week before that, but I read someone questioning why he would continue to do it, so I assume it was either the same thing or the moonwalk or something "trademarked" by Jackson. Maybe the "hollow nose."

Perhaps he likes men, likes to be manhandled...

Pumpy Tudors

12-31-2003, 09:44 AM

Funny how I've gotten myself into a discussion about class while I'm wearing an Arsenal shirt. Goodness.

WSUCougar

12-31-2003, 09:45 AM

Originally posted by Fritz
can someone elaborate on this for me? I just don't get it.
More than happy to.

I was responding to Pumpy Tudor's assertion that the Tech players had not intentionally targeted their celebration at the Navy players (as military). My point is that such an assertion (IMO) misplaces the burden of "inappropriateness" on those who witnessed the action rather than on its perpetrators. My feeling is that the Tech players should have been more aware of what such an action might entail, rather than simply plunging ahead with what is an inane little routine for the sake of a little TV time. To me, it's indicative of the me-first attitude that has overtaken the sports world.

Clear enough?

ice4277

12-31-2003, 10:19 AM

Originally posted by Pumpy Tudors
Funny how I've gotten myself into a discussion about class while I'm wearing an Arsenal shirt. Goodness.

Well if that is the case, your defense of the issue should just be that you didn't see it happen in the first place :D

cuervo72

12-31-2003, 10:26 AM

Originally posted by Ksyrup
Last week, he did the Thriller zombie move.

I actually thought it was pretty damned funny. McNabb doing a bad Thriller dance.

I missed most of the Navy/TT game, but did hear some of it on the way home on the radio, I believe the Navy broadcast. I was just wondering who the color guy was...most definitely did NOT have a radio voice, that's for darned sure. Sounded like he knew his stuff, but the delivery was awful.

Draft Dodger

12-31-2003, 10:38 AM

I've said this before: I say, bring back the end zone celebrations - bring back the Fun Bunch. Bring back the Icky Shuffle and the California Quake.

but my rule - celebration can only take place in the end zone (no running to midfield), and can only involve the 11 players on the field when the score happened. Dance away.

(but anything involving death - grenades, throat cutting, guns - should not be allowed, regardless of the opponent).

rkmsuf

12-31-2003, 10:40 AM

How about the Red Foxx heart attack? Would that offend cardiac patients?

JonInMiddleGA

12-31-2003, 10:54 AM

I bet they didn't put the celebration with the military together and would have done it if it was anyone.

Then they're fucking morons who have no business in a college classroom.

judicial clerk

12-31-2003, 11:05 AM

This celebration was done in the commercials for Any Given Sunday.

Has anybody done a celebration ala Fred Sanford heart attack?

I like the one where the dud starts the chainsaw and cuts down the goal post. Damn, I am a doofus.

MikeVick7

12-31-2003, 01:03 PM

Let's not forget that Tech also tried a flee-flicker with about four minutes left in the game while up 14 as well. So Leach may have been disgusted with their antics...but he's the guy running the team and he's the same guy that allowed his offensive coordinator to call that play.

Die Hand die Verletzt

12-31-2003, 01:24 PM

Originally posted by MikeVick7
Let's not forget that Tech also tried a flee-flicker with about four minutes left in the game while up 14 as well. So Leach may have been disgusted with their antics...but he's the guy running the team and he's the same guy that allowed his offensive coordinator to call that play.

I can understand running that play. This is the last game his team will have for some time, so I can understand trying to score and go out on an even better not.

Well, now that I think about it, a flea flicker does seem a little much. But a 14 point lead can be washed away in 4 minutes. Its happened before.

Poli

12-31-2003, 01:32 PM

It's plain dumb. I suppose we're lucky the team didn't bring out cell phones and call their families.

I suppose we're lucky they didn't put on a Private Jessica Lynch re-enactment.

At least it wasn't a ship sinking or aircraft crashing.

Still, when will it ever end?

Doubtful it ever will.

HornedFrog Purple

12-31-2003, 03:13 PM

it is not inappropriate because of a fake grenade or fake death.

it is inappropriate because it was planned.

I think that is the focus of my problem with it. Sure, if it was spontaneous it would be one thing. I just find it sad in a way that someone (maybe a senior) didn't step up and say "hey maybe this isn't such a good idea considering the circumstances."

So the Chad Johnson machine gun celebration is probably out too then...

Well let's play a what if. What if one of the players on the other teams best friend, relative etc was gunned down before the game and you as the other team knew about it. What would you think about it?

Now these are different scenarios in actuality but the theme is in my opinion the same. The point I am trying to make is you should take the circumstances into account.

rkmsuf

12-31-2003, 03:16 PM

Originally posted by HornedFrog Purple
I think that is the focus of my problem with it. Sure, if it was spontaneous it would be one thing. I just find it sad in a way that someone (maybe a senior) didn't step up and say "hey maybe this isn't such a good idea considering the circumstances."

Well let's play a what if. What if one of the players on the other teams best friend, relative etc was gunned down before the game and you as the other team knew about it. What would you think about it?

Now these are different scenarios in actuality but the theme is in my opinion the same. The point I am trying to make is you should take the circumstances into account.

So they knew someday one of the Navy boys is bound to be blown up by a grenade?

People think way too much about this stuff...

Don't ever buy a military student Call of Duty...they may get offended cuz soldiers die in it...insensitive game companies...

WSUCougar

12-31-2003, 03:22 PM

Yeah! Good one! :rolleyes:

HornedFrog Purple

12-31-2003, 03:26 PM

No, your line is just a little further than mine, and that is fine which is why I brought the whole thing up in the first place.

I would bet that they did know that some Midshipmen did lose their lives in the Middle East theatre. I am not thinking way too much about it, I see it for what I believe it is...tasteless and inappropriate.

rkmsuf

12-31-2003, 03:32 PM

Originally posted by HornedFrog Purple
No, your line is just a little further than mine, and that is fine which is why I brought the whole thing up in the first place.

I would bet that they did know that some Midshipmen did lose their lives in the Middle East theatre. I am not thinking way too much about it, I see it for what I believe it is...tasteless and inappropriate.

That's fair...I just took it as kids and something kids would do and not put a whole lot of thought into it...

WSUCougar

12-31-2003, 03:39 PM

So to use your own methodology, "kids just being kids" should be allowed to do anything they want without repercussion?

rkmsuf

12-31-2003, 03:42 PM

No but it is certainly easier to understand in that context.

I do think that seeing the celebration,which by the way has been done before and isn't restricted in use to military opponents, and then drawing the line to the fact that Tech players did this to spite someone associated with a fallen Navy officer is a bit much...