What is the "Middle Class"?

[gstelmack]

Another political thread! Woohoo! Although I actually think it's possible not to get into a left vs right discussion, I doubt we'll manage that...

My local paper has a story posted at http://www.wral.com/money/3652667/detail.html that talks about the increasing tax burden on middle-class families. The problem I have here is the same I had back during the last election: how exactly do they define "Middle Class"? In this particular case, they mention a peak income of around $75K. Is this for a married couple, or per individual? How many members of the family? Does it change upward the larger the family is?

See, my problem with all these tax discussions and poor vs. rich vs. middle class is that I don't often see a clear definition or distinction. I personally feel my situation puts me in the upper middle class, but by no means am I rich. My family can buy some nice things, owns a nice house, etc, but we still watch our pennies and certainly aren't anywhere close to doing things / buying things that normally get associated with "rich".

However, every time a number gets thrown out in these tax discussions, I seem to be categorized as "rich" and so deserve to get punished by paying more taxes and that I don't pay my fair share. I think the upper-bound placed on middle class is a bit low, and that middle class ends up being a pretty narrow band.

So anyone know if there are formal definitions for these? Stats that show what percentage of households fall into which brackets? Etc?

Any other comments?

[QuikSand]

If you let the people decide, then something like 85% of families call themselves "middle class." Families of four are roughly equally likely to put themselves in this classification if they have $40,000 of income as if they have $140,000 in income. It's fascinating, really.

I don't think there are any real boundaries... it's not a term like the "poverty line" which has an actual definition (however flawed), to my knowledge. Usually, "middle class" means whatever the speaker and audience ant it to mean... and on the campaign trail, of course, this gets to be a very slipperly slope.

[Easy Mac]

I think www.census.gov does distinguish somewhere in their myriad of documents.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Mostly "what Quik said". This isn't a term that, AFAIK, has a solid concrete definition.

If you wanted to develop your own working idea about "middle class", you might start with the 2000 U.S. Census data & check the median income figures. (which will pretty quickly show you that "middle income" in some states is different than "middle income" in other states)

[VPI97]

lindsay lohan's nip slip is nice!???

[Easy Mac]

here is some data from the gov'ment (you can do the number crunching):




All Races White A.O.I.C. White alone 1/
Mean Mean Mean
Number Income Number Income Number Income

Income of Household
Total ................... 111,278 57,852 92,740 60,086 91,645 60,166
Under $2,500............... 2,300 133 1,544 90 1,507 119
$2,500 to $4,999........... 1,233 3,768 826 3,765 812 3,767
$5,000 to $7,499........... 3,056 6,394 2,175 6,364 2,141 6,362
$7,500 to $9,999........... 3,501 8,698 2,696 8,712 2,646 8,708
$10,000 to $12,499......... 4,143 11,241 3,295 11,246 3,252 11,247
$12,500 to $14,999......... 3,693 13,669 3,002 13,684 2,961 13,683
$15,000 to $17,499......... 3,913 16,094 3,118 16,128 3,087 16,128
$17,500 to $19,999......... 3,314 18,668 2,665 18,674 2,637 18,676
$20,000 to $22,499......... 4,113 21,042 3,353 21,063 3,305 21,062
$22,500 to $24,999......... 3,306 23,719 2,737 23,724 2,695 23,722
$25,000 to $27,499......... 3,877 26,033 3,115 26,033 3,071 26,031
$27,500 to $29,999......... 3,066 28,677 2,547 28,683 2,521 28,682
$30,000 to $32,499......... 3,946 31,018 3,208 31,033 3,170 31,031
$32,500 to $34,999......... 2,783 33,681 2,267 33,693 2,227 33,693
$35,000 to $37,499......... 3,474 36,040 2,840 36,062 2,795 36,061
$37,500 to $39,999......... 2,592 38,617 2,114 38,607 2,090 38,608
$40,000 to $42,499......... 3,452 41,012 2,951 41,027 2,911 41,029
$42,500 to $44,999......... 2,261 43,668 1,943 43,664 1,914 43,664
$45,000 to $47,499......... 2,849 46,028 2,350 46,053 2,322 46,053
$47,500 to $49,999......... 2,181 48,636 1,886 48,649 1,866 48,646
$50,000 to $52,499......... 3,063 51,008 2,639 51,015 2,594 51,015
$52,500 to $54,999......... 1,956 53,654 1,671 53,666 1,654 53,665
$55,000 to $57,499......... 2,415 56,092 2,048 56,113 2,025 56,116
$57,500 to $59,999......... 1,792 58,662 1,558 58,669 1,544 58,671
$60,000 to $62,499......... 2,472 61,020 2,112 61,029 2,097 61,029
$62,500 to $64,999......... 1,761 63,658 1,563 63,662 1,558 63,661
$65,000 to $67,499......... 1,980 66,044 1,725 66,048 1,706 66,053
$67,500 to $69,999......... 1,420 68,639 1,220 68,636 1,204 68,634
$70,000 to $72,499......... 2,000 71,037 1,740 71,037 1,717 71,037
$72,500 to $74,999......... 1,456 73,645 1,243 73,633 1,234 73,632
$75,000 to $77,499......... 1,979 75,993 1,741 75,996 1,727 75,997
$77,500 to $79,999......... 1,260 78,649 1,108 78,653 1,100 78,653
$80,000 to $82,499......... 1,649 80,972 1,431 80,959 1,420 80,962
$82,500 to $84,999......... 1,188 83,702 1,031 83,699 1,025 83,699
$85,000 to $87,499......... 1,297 86,073 1,125 86,101 1,116 86,100
$87,500 to $89,999......... 905 88,639 820 88,652 811 88,654
$90,000 to $92,499......... 1,274 91,027 1,134 91,024 1,125 91,026
$92,500 to $94,999......... 867 93,637 761 93,645 758 93,641
$95,000 to $97,499......... 1,020 96,131 899 96,143 894 96,142
$97,500 to $99,999......... 791 98,681 699 98,676 691 98,680
$100,000 to $149,999....... 10,073 118,688 8,844 118,751 8,763 118,767
$150,000 to $199,999....... 2,977 169,377 2,645 169,537 2,622 169,511
$200,000 to $249,999....... 1,154 219,531 1,019 219,355 1,010 219,358
$250,000 and above......... 1,472 438,005 1,330 438,298 1,319 435,982
Table HINC-06. Income Distribution to $250,000 or More for Households: 2002</pre>

[QuikSand]

If you wanted to develop your own working idea about "middle class", you might start with the 2000 U.S. Census data & check the median income figures. (which will pretty quickly show you that "middle income" in some states is different than "middle income" in other states)

Off the top of my head, maybe I'd say that you start with the median income (perhaps adjusted by region) and include everyone between half than amount and twice that amount. (Thinking evolving...)

Around here, median p/c income is about $30,000 or so. That would make "middle class" for a family of four anywhere between $60,000 and $240,000. Hmmm... seems like a pretty broad swath, there. Maybe only up to 1.5X the median, then? $60K to 180K for a family of four?

edit - after seeing Mac's chart...

If the nation average p/c income is about $24,000 (that seems about right) that would make the "family of four" figure come out (using the 0.5-1.5X spread from above) to a range of $48,000 - $144,000... which sounds pretty reasonable to me.

[Ksyrup]

But how can I be middle class, if I benefitted from the most recent tax cuts?

[Easy Mac]

I was talking with my girlfriend the other day, and she was shocked that her family wasn't in the middle class (or my rough estimate of 40k to 125k)

I told her her dad made 100k (she said at least) and her mom makes even more, so she isn't in the middle class. I then explained to her that not everyone makes that much. I told her my mom makes 50k and my dad makes 35k, and they're in the middle of the middle class. She didn't even know the poverty level was as low as it was (she thought around 25k per person).

She just had a hard time believing that and that her 200+k family income isn't middle class. Her reasoning was that all her high school friends parents made more than that, so she didn't have as much money as them.

Needless to say I was just baffled that she didn't realize the disparity.

[Franklinnoble]

I was talking with my girlfriend the other day, and she was shocked that her family wasn't in the middle class (or my rough estimate of 40k to 125k)

I told her her dad made 100k (she said at least) and her mom makes even more, so she isn't in the middle class. I then explained to her that not everyone makes that much. I told her my mom makes 50k and my dad makes 35k, and they're in the middle of the middle class. She didn't even know the poverty level was as low as it was (she thought around 25k per person).

She just had a hard time believing that and that her 200+k family income isn't middle class. Her reasoning was that all her high school friends parents made more than that, so she didn't have as much money as them.

Needless to say I was just baffled that she didn't realize the disparity.
Kudos for bedding a rich girl...

[Easy Mac]

Kudos for bedding a rich girl...
Lets just say my choice of school wasn't purely academic.

[CraigSca]

I'm always a big fan of tax cuts for "working families". Another slippery slope...the wealthy don't work for a living?

[SunDancer]

I'm always a big fan of tax cuts for "working families". Another slippery slope...the wealthy don't work for a living?

What do the Wealthy do then to bring home money?

[Solecismic]

I would define the middle class as the group that usually feels the impact when taxes are increased.

Per-family income is probably the best way to divide things. That's tracked separately in the census. That would range from about $99,000 in our country's richest urban area, Bethesda, MD (or San Jose, CA, $70,000, if you want to limit this to more major urban areas) to $17,500 in our country's poorest urban area, Benton Harbor, MI (or Miami, FL, $23,500).

The impact of these numbers is somewhat less in that home prices (and home size, in most cases) increases with income. I would think a "fairer" solution would take this into account, which is why I support mortgage interest deductions - and would also support a smaller deduction for anything paid into primary residences (thus helping those who rent and live in more expensive areas).

[bbor]

I was talking with my girlfriend the other day, and she was shocked that her family wasn't in the middle class (or my rough estimate of 40k to 125k)

I told her her dad made 100k (she said at least) and her mom makes even more, so she isn't in the middle class. I then explained to her that not everyone makes that much. I told her my mom makes 50k and my dad makes 35k, and they're in the middle of the middle class. She didn't even know the poverty level was as low as it was (she thought around 25k per person).

She just had a hard time believing that and that her 200+k family income isn't middle class. Her reasoning was that all her high school friends parents made more than that, so she didn't have as much money as them.

Needless to say I was just baffled that she didn't realize the disparity.

Pix pls.k.thx

[Draft Dodger]

what is middle class? me.

[Maple Leafs]

It's pretty simple, really.

Anyone who makes less than me is a lazy welfare bum.

Anyone who makes more than me is a corporate whore who should never get a tax cut.

[sterlingice]

I would define the middle class as the group that usually feels the impact when taxes are increased.
I like this definition, too. But, like all the others, it has shortcomings. Let's take a $500 tax hike. If you take that away from someone making $10K per year, they lose almost a month's worth of money for all living expenses, someone at $25K a rent payment, someone at $100K part of a mortgage payment, and above that probably a small chunk of a luxury item (extra cars, mortgage on a large house, investments, etc).

It's why I tend to lean fiscally liberal when it comes to taxes. If you take $500 from my parents (who fall into that $100K+ per year category), they will miss it to be sure. But if you take that $500 from someone making $25K per year or even $100 from 5 people making $10K per year, they are going to feel it a lot more.

SI

[Crapshoot]

I like this definition, too. But, like all the others, it has shortcomings. Let's take a $500 tax hike. If you take that away from someone making $10K per year, they lose almost a month's worth of money for all living expenses, someone at $25K a rent payment, someone at $100K part of a mortgage payment, and above that probably a small chunk of a luxury item (extra cars, mortgage on a large house, investments, etc).

It's why I tend to lean fiscally liberal when it comes to taxes. If you take $500 from my parents (who fall into that $100K+ per year category), they will miss it to be sure. But if you take that $500 from someone making $25K per year or even $100 from 5 people making $10K per year, they are going to feel it a lot more.

SI

except the flaw being that if 500 is taken from the middle class- the rich are usually paying a lot more than that.

[Maple Leafs]

Let's take a $500 tax hike. But is there really any such thing as a $500 tax hike?