WW Small Game IX- The Cold War !! game over CIA win

[st.cronin]

Not trying to get myself lynched or anything, but why would you make that assumption? If yesterday was villager vs villager, a wolf doesnt care who dies. So me saving you or me saving Ntndeacon, it really doesn't matter to a wolf. I would argue that a wolf is less likely to stick his neck out on day 1 like that, but we've seen wolfs do that before too. (I think I even did it before once long ago).

I'm a good guy, but I don't think I've done much one way or another that can seal the deal for people though I guess.

Yeah, I do see your point, but I also think that a wolf wouldn't want anything to do with breaking that tie. We've turned out to be a fairly level-headed crowd, but we've both seen bandwagons build up for less than that. A wolf I think wouldn't want to risk that.

[path12]

Path, if you assume I'm good I think you have to assume Alan is good as well.

I was actually referring more to the likelyhood of you and Alan being night targets as experienced players rather than speculating on who's good or not.

I agree with Alan that Ardent's comment about you last night either gives you a modicum of trust or means that both of you are bad (which would be a strange play this early, so I lean toward the trust side).

[bulletsponge]

I think you're taunting us! 15 yards, unsportsmanlike conduct.


would a wolf start taunting 2 days into the game?

[Narcizo]

I agree, if anything, it means he was WRONG on those suspicions (assuming the spies even knew what he meant).

That's just illogical. He was probably killed because the wolves thought (correctly as it turned out, unbelievable as it may seem) that he revealed he was a seer. I don't see how what he might have been referring to or not is going to influence their judgement. They believed DT wasn't bluffing and were right and targeted the seer. What DT might be referring to is neither here nor there.

[beargrowlz]

would a wolf start taunting 2 days into the game?

The perfect cover! ;)

Actually though, I was thinking more likely that you were the mercenary and that a wolf negotiator found you last night and hired you to take suspicion off them.

I don't get the hit and run vote on Saldana either.

That being said, I'm going to cast an early vote today and go with my gut. Like he said, having pretty much equal suspicions about he, Molly and ITC, and path having voted for him yesterday, I probably should have voted narc yesterday.

So that's what I'll do today.

vote narcizo

[beargrowlz]

Heh, that's funny. I just noticed your post count doesn't increase when you post here.

[Narcizo]

I think we need to start thinking in terms of getting as much information as possible. Lynching someone like ITC (or me for that matter) is going to reveal nothing more than whether we are good or bad. While it's all well and good if we hit a bad guy we have to accept that, on day 2 apparently without much information, the chances are we're not going to. Without a seer we need to start looking to get more information from lynches. Unfortunate but true.

So how do we get information? By targeting people that already seem to be tied to other people. Clear them and we're partially clearing other people. Find out they're bad and we get a line of inquiry to lead us to other people.

[MollyMurphy]

Sorry Molly, posted my last post before seeing your latest. Thanks for the answer.

No problem. I see where you were coming from. I am in and out today. I am technically in meetings all day but I am sneaking peaks into the thread during breaks and when the meeting gets boring.

[st.cronin]

So how do we get information? By targeting people that already seem to be tied to other people. Clear them and we're partially clearing other people. Find out they're bad and we get a line of inquiry to lead us to other people.

So, you'll be wanting to lynch me I guess.

[Narcizo]

Of course it would be handy if we can also find someone acting suspiciously to target as well as looking for information.

[Narcizo]

So, you'll be wanting to lynch me I guess.

Can you fault the logic?

[st.cronin]

Can you fault the logic?

Not really, it would do the village more good than lynching some random guy who turned out to be good.

[MollyMurphy]

That's just illogical. He was probably killed because the wolves thought (correctly as it turned out, unbelievable as it may seem) that he revealed he was a seer. I don't see how what he might have been referring to or not is going to influence their judgement. They believed DT wasn't bluffing and were right and targeted the seer. What DT might be referring to is neither here nor there.

They either did believe him or they got lucky. The comment from DT doesn't seem like a lot to go on......

[Poli]

vote ImTheCrew
I'm with you Cronin.

[Poli]

The only thing that has me concerned about the phone tap: If cronin is KGB but didn't send in the night action...then he appears as if he's CIA. Additionally, it would make me look bad as well.

[ImTheCrew]

Not really, it would do the village more good than lynching some random guy who turned out to be good.
happens to me every game :)

[Alan T]

The only thing that has me concerned about the phone tap: If cronin is KGB but didn't send in the night action...then he appears as if he's CIA. Additionally, it would make me look bad as well.

I included that in my scenerio I listed before. Even -if- this is true, at least one of the KGB had to have sent in the order. So how many KGB are there in a game this size? 3 considering the other items and roles in play? So he has 1/3 less of a chance of being bad than any other non-cleared person here.

Its why I said he isn't cleared in my mind, but I'm willing to let him slide a little bit based on that alone. On day 2, you don't really have cleared vs uncleared. You instead have percentages of possible wolf or not. Right now St.cronin is more likely to be good than everyone else.. but it doesn't mean he is cleared by any means.

[Alan T]

Dola , on the other hand it also means its likely if he is good and dies he isn't an important role. But that is taking risk management into consideration

[Chief Rum]

There are a lot of pet theories out there, but one play from yesterday still looks very suspicious to me. Beargrowlz is already barking up the right tree on it, too--bulletsponge.

Look, I understand the draw of FM and how work gets in the way of things, but bulletsponge is too experienced to drop a vote-and-run on Day One without explanation. I am surprised he hasn't drawn more interest. Until more information comes out, he is at the top of my list because of the no explanation Day One vote and because he seems to be trying to be UTR.

[MollyMurphy]

There are a lot of pet theories out there, but one play from yesterday still looks very suspicious to me. Beargrowlz is already barking up the right tree on it, too--bulletsponge.

Look, I understand the draw of FM and how work gets in the way of things, but bulletsponge is too experienced to drop a vote-and-run on Day One without explanation. I am surprised he hasn't drawn more interest. Until more information comes out, he is at the top of my list because of the no explanation Day One vote and because he seems to be trying to be UTR.

I was not aware that he was an experienced player (still learning who has been playing for a while). I agree that it is very suspicious given that he has experience in this game. He has also not defended this choice.

[st.cronin]

Somebody took a guess that he was the mercenary. If that's the case, it might be worth it to wait a night on that, see if anything happens.

On the other hand, he's my #2 choice for a lynch today.

[Chief Rum]

Somebody took a guess that he was the mercenary. If that's the case, it might be worth it to wait a night on that, see if anything happens.

On the other hand, he's my #2 choice for a lynch today.

I hear what you're saying, but I'm more inclined to see the mercenary as someone who is a potential wolf. If bulletsponge is the mercenary, it's more of a risk to leave him around. So either he is exhibiting wolfish behavior, or he is perhaps the mercenary, neither of which are inclined to help the good guys.

My time is short as I am about to get ready for work. But I'm going to drop a placeholder vote on bulletsponge in case I don't get back.

VOTE BULLETSPONGE

[path12]

IIRC, bullet tends to drop hit and run votes more often than not. Doesn't make it any less suspicious though. I could be persuaded to head that direction pending further developments.

[MollyMurphy]

I hear what you're saying, but I'm more inclined to see the mercenary as someone who is a potential wolf. If bulletsponge is the mercenary, it's more of a risk to leave him around. So either he is exhibiting wolfish behavior, or he is perhaps the mercenary, neither of which are inclined to help the good guys.

My time is short as I am about to get ready for work. But I'm going to drop a placeholder vote on bulletsponge in case I don't get back.

VOTE BULLETSPONGE

I am inclined to agree with you CR. He is #1 on my list and I have a dinner meeting tonight, so I will not be around later tonight. Before I cast a vote, I would like to hear from Bulletsponge.

[Narcizo]

They either did believe him or they got lucky. The comment from DT doesn't seem like a lot to go on......

My comment was more along the lines that I couldn't believe DT would drop a hint for no reason before night actions are due.

Anyway, getting back to the st cronin business, voting for him is useful because it will reveal a couple of things.
1) If he's good then the chances are very high that AE is good. Presuming all this goes through there's every reason for the night watchman to guard AE's door. If St C is good, a wolf AE would be taking a huge risk saying that he didn't detect a night action by St C for very litte gain. Should St C turn out to be a wolf then it doesn't damn AE but it means we would want to look at him a lot more closely.
2) If st cronin turns up bad then, right enough, it makes alan look bad. It doesn't prove anything (I would have done the same thing in his position - although bearing in mind NTN was lynched on day one in my last game I'd have probably gone the other way). It also gives us more information about ITC, who now looks pretty good for switching his vote. If St Cronin's good then the information is not all that useful but at least we know that we don't have to be suspicious of Alan T based on the vote and that ITC has a bit more explaining to do.

I don't really expect people to vote for him solely based on this. Unfortunately I don't know if I have enough time to get my stuff together to say why I'm getting wolfish vibes from st cronin. But the whole charade about how DT's death is some sort of wolfish plan engineered to make Alan or him look suspicious just doesn't ring true to me.

[molson]

I am inclined to agree with you CR. He is #1 on my list and I have a dinner meeting tonight, so I will not be around later tonight. Before I cast a vote, I would like to hear from Bulletsponge.

I'd like to hear from him to, but I think it's more likely if his neck's on the line.

VOTE BULLETSPONGE

[molson]

Just to be clear on my vote, I don't mean it as punishment for not posting much. I know he's a good player, and good players who are largely absent, checking in very rarely (so at least we know they're participating) kind of creeps me out. We need to try to engage people like that now, rather than days from now. Subject to change between now and the deadline.

[st.cronin]

My comment was more along the lines that I couldn't believe DT would drop a hint for no reason before night actions are due.

Anyway, getting back to the st cronin business, voting for him is useful because it will reveal a couple of things.
1) If he's good then the chances are very high that AE is good. Presuming all this goes through there's every reason for the night watchman to guard AE's door. If St C is good, a wolf AE would be taking a huge risk saying that he didn't detect a night action by St C for very litte gain. Should St C turn out to be a wolf then it doesn't damn AE but it means we would want to look at him a lot more closely.
2) If st cronin turns up bad then, right enough, it makes alan look bad. It doesn't prove anything (I would have done the same thing in his position - although bearing in mind NTN was lynched on day one in my last game I'd have probably gone the other way). It also gives us more information about ITC, who now looks pretty good for switching his vote. If St Cronin's good then the information is not all that useful but at least we know that we don't have to be suspicious of Alan T based on the vote and that ITC has a bit more explaining to do.

I don't really expect people to vote for him solely based on this. Unfortunately I don't know if I have enough time to get my stuff together to say why I'm getting wolfish vibes from st cronin. But the whole charade about how DT's death is some sort of wolfish plan engineered to make Alan or him look suspicious just doesn't ring true to me.

It was just a theory. This seems to happen to me every game - nobody's saying anything, I suggest a possibility, and people say "I disagree with you, therefore you are a wolf!"

If you think I'm a wolf, then by all means vote for me. I think lynching me will mostly clear both ardent and Alan, which would make it worthwhile.

[bulletsponge]

So, you'll be wanting to lynch me I guess.

i dont. despite you bieng suspicous of me yesterday i have a good feeling your a red blooded american


Vote Molson

ive never played with you, so i dont trust you (not that i trust the vets that have pulled the wool over my eyes many times)

[Narcizo]

I don't have the luxury of pressuring bullet into providing an explanation. I don't think ITC is bad just because of shifted vote on day one. If we're all going to go with our hunches, which seems to be the order of the day, then I'd rather try and get some information doing so.

Vote St Cronin and that would be a nightfall vote.

At least put some sort of pressure on him and see what happens. If you make my vote a throwaway we're going to learn nothing today.

If people want to vote for me you're not going to hurt the team too much with a lynch. But when I come up good where are you going to be tomorrow?

Goodnight.

[molson]

i dont. despite you bieng suspicous of me yesterday i have a good feeling your a red blooded american


Vote Molson

ive never played with you, so i dont trust you (not that i trust the vets that have pulled the wool over my eyes many times)

Actually, you played with me once, and you were a wolf, and you did a great job of staying under the radar.

[MollyMurphy]

i dont. despite you bieng suspicous of me yesterday i have a good feeling your a red blooded american


Vote Molson

ive never played with you, so i dont trust you (not that i trust the vets that have pulled the wool over my eyes many times)


We still have not heard anything from you on your actions. I don't want to be a pile up on you, but I feel like you are not responding to the concerns that are out there about your actions.

[path12]

Votes thru #282:

ITC 2 -- Cronin(241), Ardent(264)
Bullet 2 -- Chief Rum(272), Molson(276)
Narcizo 1 -- Beargrowlz(255)
Molson 1 -- Bullet(279)
Cronin 1 -- Narcizo(280)

[ImTheCrew]

Ill be back right before deadline to catch up and to Check/Maybe change my vote

but for now

VOTE MOLSON

[path12]

I think we need to start thinking in terms of getting as much information as possible. Lynching someone like ITC (or me for that matter) is going to reveal nothing more than whether we are good or bad. While it's all well and good if we hit a bad guy we have to accept that, on day 2 apparently without much information, the chances are we're not going to. Without a seer we need to start looking to get more information from lynches. Unfortunate but true.

So how do we get information? By targeting people that already seem to be tied to other people. Clear them and we're partially clearing other people. Find out they're bad and we get a line of inquiry to lead us to other people.

The only thing I have a problem with here is the fact that wolves very very rarely are going to tie themselves together day 1. I would be surprised if any of the wolves (whether two or three) were on the same person yesterday.

So I don't see who's tied to whom, unless we take the case of Ardent tapping Cronin's phone, or Alan switching to ntn, which I think we all agree is not a move that is necessarily causing any suspicion at this point.

Without a seer now I think it was early for Ardent to come out, but he's really now our best source of information if he's not playing us......but there hasn't been a counter and until there is a credible one I think we have to err on the side of caution and place him in the unvoteable category. I think to follow that line of thinking we also at least have better options then Cronin, even though it is certainly possible he could be bad and just didn't PM last night for some reason.

[molson]

Actually, you played with me once, and you were a wolf, and you did a great job of staying under the radar.

And obviously, that doesn't make you a wolf here, but I think you're dangerous enough that we can't let you hover on the periphery until the end of the game, with nothing about you to analyze.

[bulletsponge]

Actually, you played with me once, and you were a wolf, and you did a great job of staying under the radar.

really? hmm

must have been the werewolf "werewolf" game. hehe that was funny eating everyone and have them all at each others throat. btw i posted a lot in that game


We still have not heard anything from you on your actions. I don't want to be a pile up on you, but I feel like you are not responding to the concerns that are out there about your actions.

ok ill say this once, when i voted for Saladana yesterday it was a completly random vote, i didnt read many posts before i voted, im lazy. if my votes ever make no sense its probably because i didnt read many posts :p

all my votes on the first days are random

[bulletsponge]

And obviously, that doesn't make you a wolf here, but I think you're dangerous enough that we can't let you hover on the periphery until the end of the game, with nothing about you to analyze.

i posted a lot in that game, i wasnt "under the radar" it wasnt my fault i didnt put a big bullseye on my back.

[molson]

really? hmm

must have been the werewolf "werewolf" game. hehe that was funny eating everyone and have them all at each others throat. btw i posted a lot in that game



Ya, that was it, "House of Frankenstein".

(And I was the one bitching earlier about bring up player reputations/past games)

[bulletsponge]

Ya, that was it, "House of Frankenstein".

(And I was the one bitching earlier about bring up player reputations/past games)


ok sorry, we shall never speak of that game again.

btw maybe i should now say this, im a American who despises all things Commie :)

[molson]

ok sorry, we shall never speak of that game again.



I was mocking myself for bringing that up, if that wasn't clear.

Anyway, I'm just looking for info at this point. My vote induced your vote against me, which induced another vote against me, which may make me dead soon, but if not, I'll at least have some kind of meaningful voting history to work with.

It's in no way set in stone.

[Alan T]

IIRC, bullet tends to drop hit and run votes more often than not. Doesn't make it any less suspicious though. I could be persuaded to head that direction pending further developments.

This is what I meant earlier. I think pressing bullet ends up just being a waste of time. He tends to vote rashly and provide little information in regards to it. Just his play style. I'd likely vote for him if I can't find any better choice to go with.

It was just a theory. This seems to happen to me every game - nobody's saying anything, I suggest a possibility, and people say "I disagree with you, therefore you are a wolf!"

If you think I'm a wolf, then by all means vote for me. I think lynching me will mostly clear both ardent and Alan, which would make it worthwhile.

Yeah, but I'm nothing important that I need someone lynched to prove my innocence. I just think that keeping in mind my actions today is important but there are likely better leads to follow. I find it very unlikely that 3 wolves all came out on day 1-2 to protect their own in a game this size. There likely isn't many more than 3 to start with. I think the worst case here is St.cronin is a wolf who luckily didn't submit the order and has found a comfortable place with two villagers vouching for him. Even with that its not worth it to me to pursue that today.

Ill be back right before deadline to catch up and to Check/Maybe change my vote

but for now

VOTE MOLSON

Once again, ITC votes to tie things up, this time though with his own neck on the line and a vote for bulletsponge helping keep him from dying.


The only thing I have a problem with here is the fact that wolves very very rarely are going to tie themselves together day 1. I would be surprised if any of the wolves (whether two or three) were on the same person yesterday.

So I don't see who's tied to whom, unless we take the case of Ardent tapping Cronin's phone, or Alan switching to ntn, which I think we all agree is not a move that is necessarily causing any suspicion at this point.

Without a seer now I think it was early for Ardent to come out, but he's really now our best source of information if he's not playing us......but there hasn't been a counter and until there is a credible one I think we have to err on the side of caution and place him in the unvoteable category. I think to follow that line of thinking we also at least have better options then Cronin, even though it is certainly possible he could be bad and just didn't PM last night for some reason.

I don't follow here Path. Ardent had a one time use item. Why would him coming out now be bad? If anything its the perfect time just in case he dies later. Him dying with information seems rather pointless when he isn't protecting a role. I think either you're doing something fishy here or just didn't quite follow the rules and ardent's story closely. My gut tells me you're a better player than that and since you already were on my list of people I was watching, it only made me more suspicious of you.



I think if I had to vote right now, it would be Path, but that seems rather wasted with the current vote totals. Guess for now I'll wait and see how it goes.

[st.cronin]

Alan, I don't see where ardent's item was one time use. Are you sure about that?

[Alan T]

Eh, just that we've already discussed today that items are single use it seems. The bolds are my doing.


ITEMS- There are items available in the game. Players will randomly start with items or find them at random. Players with night actions may choose to bypass their night action with for a chance to receive an item. Players may choose to pass these items if they like. All items are single use unless otherwise specified. There may be more then one of a particular item.



Yeah, I missed that. It says that all items are single use.

I guess I have to guess that if his item was more than a single use he wouldn't have just come out and say gee I have this item come kill me.

[st.cronin]

Thanks, Alan. Missed that as well.

[Lathum]

If an item is multiple use it will be posted for public knowledge

[Lorena]

This is not a good week for me so I have asked Lathum to replace me, sorry all. I'll place my vote and will probably be my last post in this thread unless Lathum can't find someone then I'll just finish the game but my heart is not in it anymore.

I'm a little torn between Narcizo and bulletsponge. Narcizo placed his vote on ntndeacon for the sake of "conversation", bulletsponge placed a second vote on saldana before I unvoted for him. I do think there is something to the second or third vote being placed on someone and it almost seems hypocritical that I'm placing my vote on someone who already has votes but it's really just a hunch at this point. I could have easily voted for someone that doesn't have any votes but I seriously think one of these is a wolf:

vote narcizo

[Lorena]

Votes thru #282:

ITC 2 -- Cronin(241), Ardent(264)
Bullet 2 -- Chief Rum(272), Molson(276)
Narcizo 2 -- Beargrowlz(255), DODGERCHICK (297)
Molson 2 -- Bullet(279), imthecrew (284)
Cronin 1 -- Narcizo(280)

that's 4 people with 2 votes, i'd like to see who will come rescue one of these 4 players.

[Lorena]

whoops, that should read "votes thru 297"

[st.cronin]

still to vote: Alan, Molly, path

[Alan T]

Taking Path's quote above, this is what I see the current votes as:

ITC 2 -- Cronin(241), Ardent(264)
Bullet 2 -- Chief Rum(272), Molson(276)
Narcizo 1 -- Beargrowlz(255)
Molson 2 -- Bullet(279), ImTheCrew
Cronin 1 -- Narcizo(280)

With these left to vote:

AlanT
Dodgerchick
Path12
bulletsponge
Molly Murphy
Saldana


I'm going to vote Path I think for now, just to get a vote in (just in case something happens and I can't get back on in the next 2 hours). Also to see what happens with this vote. I dont like ties, so if I had to choose between ITC, Molson or Bulletsponge I guess for now I'll move my vote to Bulletsponge later if Path will end up being a throwaway vote.



Vote Path

[Alan T]

Well I started typing my post up like 10 min ago and stopped because of doctors that I was talking to. Anyways DC obviously voted since then.. so thats 4 people tied at 2 votes now. I still think I'd vote for Bulletsponge to break the tie if need be out of the 4

[Alan T]

double dola

and obviously Bullet voted so he shouldnt be included on the list of people who havent voted.

Its just Saldana, Path and Molly right now I think

[st.cronin]

Alan, do you think there's anything to bullet being the merc?

[Alan T]

Alan, do you think there's anything to bullet being the merc?

I don't really know if I draw that conclusion based on his play. I think Bullet is playing like he normally does. Usually posts alot more smiley faces and short posts than a longer Chief Rum type post. Its just his play style. I don't know that I saw much different here, just I would vote for him based on that over other options just because I have a hard time figuring a wolf out of someone who doesn't post much content.

If he is the merc, then fine with me if we vote him out. Would rather vote out the merc than a good guy any day.

[Alan T]

Just so there isnt any later confusion with my most recent post list being wrong.. here is the current votes:

TC 2 -- Cronin(241), Ardent(264)
Bullet 2 -- Chief Rum(272), Molson(276)
Narcizo 2 -- Beargrowlz(255), Dodgerchick
Molson 2 -- Bullet(279), ImTheCrew
Cronin 1 -- Narcizo(280)
Path 1 -- Alan T

With these left to vote:

Path12
Molly Murphy
Saldana

[MollyMurphy]

ok ill say this once, when i voted for Saladana yesterday it was a completly random vote, i didnt read many posts before i voted, im lazy. if my votes ever make no sense its probably because i didnt read many posts :p

all my votes on the first days are random

I respect the day one random vote, but my gut still says to go with you. There is a lot of speculation out there around you and my gut all along today has been to go with you since you have been very vague with you posts and I have no history in games with you.

I am leaving my meetings today to go to a dinner meeting so may not be back before the end of voting. I hope my gut is right that you are a wolf and if it is not, then I hope you are still around tomorrow.

Vote bulletsponge

[path12]

I don't follow here Path. Ardent had a one time use item. Why would him coming out now be bad? If anything its the perfect time just in case he dies later. Him dying with information seems rather pointless when he isn't protecting a role. I think either you're doing something fishy here or just didn't quite follow the rules and ardent's story closely. My gut tells me you're a better player than that and since you already were on my list of people I was watching, it only made me more suspicious of you.

That's just a mistake on my part, I got mixed up with one of the interrogator roles. I'm kind of scattered this week. But I can certainly understand if it raised an eyebrow with you.

So basically, um, nevermind. :o

[st.cronin]

So bullet is on the block. I'll move my vote to break a tie if need be. Curious to hear some analysis from saldana.

[path12]

I'm out for awhile. Will be back to vote before deadline. Would obviously vote to protect myself.

[saldana]

hi all, i am back and all caught up. sucks that the techie bought it last night...i guess i can buy the random/not really paying attention thing from bullet for now, and since i dont like the way he seems to know more than he should, i will

vote imthecrew

[st.cronin]

And we're tied again.

[Alan T]

once again, I dont like ties.

unvote path
vote bulletsponge

[st.cronin]

updated

Bullet 4 -- Chief Rum(272), Molson(276), MollyMurphy, Alan T
ITC 3 -- Cronin(241), Ardent(264), saldana
Narcizo 2 -- Beargrowlz(255), Dodgerchick
Molson 2 -- Bullet(279), ImTheCrew
Cronin 1 -- Narcizo(280)

[path12]

I don't want to risk the spies being able to mess with the vote by going Narc, so I will

VOTE BULLET

Have to run again, back later tonight.

[path12]

Dola, by mess with the vote I mean tie it up.

[bulletsponge]

ohh i see the knives are out! Be warned Americans, hang me and you will be hanging a powerful ally!

[Alan T]

ohh i see the knives are out! Be warned Americans, hang me and you will be hanging a powerful ally!

So by this statement you are admitting to be the merc? Want to tell us much about your role? Maybe you can convince us otherwise. I doubt it, but its your only shot

[molson]

Pretty quiet near the deadline.

I'm more or less stumped by the game so far.

[Lathum]

Bullet 5-- Chief Rum(272), Molson(276), MollyMurphy, Alan T, Path
ITC 3 -- Cronin(241), Ardent(264), saldana
Narcizo 2 -- Beargrowlz(255), Dodgerchick
Molson 2 -- Bullet(279), ImTheCrew
Cronin 1 -- Narcizo(280)


7 minutes until deadline

[st.cronin]

Pretty quiet near the deadline.

I'm more or less stumped by the game so far.

I'm not quite so stumped. I'm more or less certain that bullet = merc, and ITC = kgb. I could be wrong, but I doubt it.

[Lathum]

deadline

[Lathum]

You all gather together hoping for better results today. There is a lot of discussion and in the end it is determined bulletsponge has been acting strange lately and he emerges as the top suspect. He assures you he is on your side but the masses have spoken. The commanding officer steps up and with a single shot ends bulletsponges life.

A search of his quarters show an abundance of weapons as well and several bottles of no doze. Bulletsponge was the night watchman!!

Night 2 has begun deadline 9:00 AM


Bullet 5-- Chief Rum(272), Molson(276), MollyMurphy, Alan T, Path
ITC 3 -- Cronin(241), Ardent(264), saldana
Narcizo 2 -- Beargrowlz(255), Dodgerchick
Molson 2 -- Bullet(279), ImTheCrew
Cronin 1 -- Narcizo(280)

[st.cronin]

Are you kidding.

[Alan T]

Well.. I'm on a roll. =\

I thought Saldana was the night watchmen personally though. So much for me being anywhere close to right.

[Alan T]

And for the record, next time someone is a bodyguard and its pretty clear for hours they are going to be lynched.. Please say something.

[st.cronin]

And for the record, next time someone is a bodyguard and its pretty clear for hours they are going to be lynched.. Please say something.

Yes, please.

[DaddyTorgo]

wow

[path12]

Seer, bodyguard.

*sigh*. Ever feel like you suck at this game?

[molson]

Everyone sure cleared the hell out of here.

We need some luck now, but it ain't over.

[bulletsponge]

And for the record, next time someone is a bodyguard and its pretty clear for hours they are going to be lynched.. Please say something.

Voice from the beyond
*why the hell would i do that, you hanged me, im screwing someone over with me!*

[Lorena]

so much for me not posting in here again.

wow that sucks and yes path i always feel like i suck at this game.

[Lorena]

i have a strong suspicion that mollymurphy might be a baddie. It's the timing of her vote against bullet that has me suspect her.

alright, i gotta get ready for work.

[Lathum]

Now filling in for Dodgerchick I give you barkeep49!!

[st.cronin]

Assuming I make it through the night, and barring further revelation, I'm planning to vote ITC again tomorrow.

[st.cronin]

hey, welcome to the game BK ... drive carefully

[Poli]

That's weird timing for BK to enter. Hmmph.

[MollyMurphy]

And for the record, next time someone is a bodyguard and its pretty clear for hours they are going to be lynched.. Please say something.

I 100% agree. When I was suspicious and asking questions, I wish you had brought this up.

[Alan T]

For the record in case I die tonight, I plan on probably voting Saldana tommorrow. From things he said it made me feel he had a role of some kind. He introduced himself as Jack Armstrong, and I know that I did not receive a name with my role. So that told me either named roles or special roles were named or he was a bad guy trying to blend in.

So since the seer and bodyguard are both dead, it no longer is a concern for me to press this. Its why I tried to kind of protect him the first two days assuming he was the bodyguard. Its still possible that he is the duke.. but the great thing is if he is, and we vote for him, then at the end he can just turn the vote to have me lynched anyways :)

Anyways.. we've run out of important good roles so now Im more suspicious of him.

[Narcizo]

Voice from the beyond
*why the hell would i do that, you hanged me, im screwing someone over with me!*

Um... so that people don't lynch you. Alternatively you could try to make a slight effort not to look very suspicious when you have a major role so you don't screw over your own team and make it easy for the bad guys.

[Narcizo]

I tapped cronin's phone last night, hoping to hear something useful after the day actions. I got nothing. Zilch. Either the dude has a secure cell phone or he didn't have a night action.

Out of interest why did you choose to tap Cronin's phone? Seems like you think there were more suspicious people out there. I presume you would tap the phone of the person you find most suspicious.

[Narcizo]

Day 1 Voting in my short experience has never showed any signs of anything to me because how could it? im pretty sure there are only "Night" Actions, but i might be wrong. i dont know why people take so much stock into D1's no one has any way of knowing anything inless someone leaks what their role is, which i have yet to notice.


We caught Daddy Torgo in the Big City game partly because of his day one voting activities. There, that's my one experience of a WW game so that makes it an 100% record. Unless we're just going to blithely go along voting based on hunches or feelings until we're all dead I think we might want to start trying to find some sort of meaning somewhere. Without a seer or bodyguard we don't have an awful lot to go on. To be honest, unless the bad guys screw up, I think we're toast but we can at least try to make them work for their win.

[Chief Rum]

You gotta be kidding me. :mad:

I don't want to pile on here, but I have to say it; honestly, folks, if you're a key role for good, don't sit there and die without saying what the heck you are! That's just not having your head in the game if you are the BG and you buy it this early.

[Narcizo]

I've been trying to track down why I get a wolfy vibe from St Cronin. I think it comes down to the fact that he seems very interested in declaring that he doesn't think such and such a person is acting wolfishly. He did it with me on day one and with with Alan T and Chief Rum on day two. No-one else has really expressed anything like the same degree of confidence (the nearest is Alan saying that he thinks AE scans means it's less likely the Cronin is a wolf). Why would Cronin risk publically linking himself with people who might turn out to be wolves, unless he knows that they're not?

I admit it's not much to go on. Sorry.

[saldana]

i think we need to focus on the five people that voted for bullet....especially ones that came in to make it a tie or decision....normally, i wouldnt worry so much about vote movement on a day 2, but seeing that all anyone would need was an infra red sensor to check the hallway during night one and they could have found out what bullet was doing, it wouldnt have been impossible for the enemy to have him made that fast.

and alan, i just used the jack armstrong all american boy as a turn of phrase to indicate my allegiences...i dont think you should read into that any more than its surface, but we can talk about it later if you'd like. my role pm doesnt have a name, unless regular is my first name and agent is my last.

[Chief Rum]

i think we need to focus on the five people that voted for bullet....especially ones that came in to make it a tie or decision....normally, i wouldnt worry so much about vote movement on a day 2, but seeing that all anyone would need was an infra red sensor to check the hallway during night one and they could have found out what bullet was doing, it wouldnt have been impossible for the enemy to have him made that fast.

and alan, i just used the jack armstrong all american boy as a turn of phrase to indicate my allegiences...i dont think you should read into that any more than its surface, but we can talk about it later if you'd like. my role pm doesnt have a name, unless regular is my first name and agent is my last.

I know where you're coming from, and as the first who put a vote on bullet, let me say I would do the same in your shoes. That said, I don't know that I would leap to the conclusion there was a wolf run here to lynch bullet. I think bullet made some odd decisions/played inactive, and on Day Two, it doesn't take much to get people on to someone, because there is precious little information out there. Now, we might take a look at those who voted both our seer and bodyguard out. I know one who stands out is Alan, although I would stress that I don't feel he is a wolf, at least not from what I have seen so far. He just seems to be a guy who has placed his votes with the wrong people at the wrong time, and Alan is too smart and experienced to be that obvious were he a wolf.

I am certainly hoping night actions will dig up some information.

[Narcizo]

The seer was night killed Chief. But I agree I don't know how much we can read into the Bullet lynch thanks to his policy of apparently going out of his way to attract votes. It does bear looking at the 5 guys who voted for him. It seems likely that one is a wolf but I don't think there's any way to discern which one.

[Chief Rum]

The seer was night killed Chief. But I agree I don't know how much we can read into the Bullet lynch thanks to his policy of apparently going out of his way to attract votes. It does bear looking at the 5 guys who voted for him. It seems likely that one is a wolf but I don't think there's any way to discern which one.

lol, you're right. I'm a dolt.

Oh, and I do think there is at least one wolf in the bullet vote. But I am guessing there was at least one wolf on either side of the tie vote on Day One (the one Alan broke, I mean). Wolves tend to split their votes, and I am sure they did both days.

[Narcizo]

Day One
Ntndeacon 4 -- MollyMurphy (55), Narcizo (68), st.cronin (92), ITC (106), Beargrowlz (127), Beargrowlz unvote (140), ITC unvote (141), alan T (153)
St.Cronin 3 -- Ardent (65), Molson (80), ITC (141)
MollyMurphy 1-- Beargrowlz (140)
Dodgerchick 1 -- Alan T (70), Dodgerchick (94), Alan T unvote (153)
Narcizo 1 -- path12 (93)
Chief Rum 1 -- Ntndeacon (57)
Saldana 1 -- Dodgerchick (47), Dodgerchick unvote (94), bulletsponge (100)
bulletsponge 1 -- saldana (107)
Daddy Torgo - path (53) path unvote (93)

Day Two
Bulletsponge 5 - Chief Rum (272), molson (276), MollyMurphy (307), Alan T (313), path (314)
ImTheCrew 3 - st.cronin (241), ardent enthusiast (264), saldana (311),
Narcizo 2 - beargrowlz (255), dodgerchick (297)
molson 2 - bulletsponge (279), ITC (284)
St.cronin 1 - Narcizo (280)
Path - Alan T (301), Alan T unvote (313)

The more I look at it the more I have a hard time reading anything wolfish in ITC's first day vote switch. I think BGs switch is far more suspicious. That's about it.

For meta-game reasons I feel pretty comfortable about Dodgerchick/Barkeep.

Lunch time.

[Alan T]

I am still a little peeved at Bullet for how he went down. I said clearly several times a few hours before the lynch vote that I had planned on voting for Bullet if it remained tied up. Instead of trying to make any case whatsoever, he comes out with a line that makes him sound completely not on our side and I quoted it and even told him such and said he needed to come clean.

This was with well over an hour to go. Instead he says nothing else and appears to not even care about our side evidentally. His comment afterwards even proved that he didn't care. Basically saying if we're going to vote for him, then he'll just spite us and not even give us a chance to consider his side.

Its completely rediculous all together. I don't feel bad for keeping my vote there as I gave him a chance and he chose not to do anything with it. What I do feel bad about is us not having a bodyguard because of that decision

[Alan T]

i think we need to focus on the five people that voted for bullet....especially ones that came in to make it a tie or decision....normally, i wouldnt worry so much about vote movement on a day 2, but seeing that all anyone would need was an infra red sensor to check the hallway during night one and they could have found out what bullet was doing, it wouldnt have been impossible for the enemy to have him made that fast.

and alan, i just used the jack armstrong all american boy as a turn of phrase to indicate my allegiences...i dont think you should read into that any more than its surface, but we can talk about it later if you'd like. my role pm doesnt have a name, unless regular is my first name and agent is my last.

Eh I don't like playing PM word games so I'm not really going to go down the path of noting that you still aren't saying what mine said. I'll assume that all PMs went out differently to avoid that type of thing from happening. I do still find the Jack Armstrong thing to be one of those type of moves that a smart wolf like yourself would try to do as a calculated risk to buy some trust from people in a place where you can't win any.

It might not be much, but I think I'm leaning towards that vote to start today. I maybe can be convinced to move elsewhere, but right now I'm not sure what to make of voting records because I blame Bullet as much or more than those who voted for him.

[Alan T]

I've been trying to track down why I get a wolfy vibe from St Cronin. I think it comes down to the fact that he seems very interested in declaring that he doesn't think such and such a person is acting wolfishly. He did it with me on day one and with with Alan T and Chief Rum on day two. No-one else has really expressed anything like the same degree of confidence (the nearest is Alan saying that he thinks AE scans means it's less likely the Cronin is a wolf). Why would Cronin risk publically linking himself with people who might turn out to be wolves, unless he knows that they're not?

I admit it's not much to go on. Sorry.

I don't see how you can fault my math on this one.

For a wolf Night Kill, one wolf must send a PM request in.
If Ardent was tapping Cronin's phone, he would know if cronin sent in a night pm
Ardent says Cronin did not send in the night pm.
This means either:

A) Ardent is lying for some wolfish reason

or

B) Cronin was not the person who sent in the Night pm.

I said that means if there are 3 wolf roles, that Cronin can't be one of the three, he could only be the other 2 wolves who didn't send in the night PM. That statistically makes it less likely that Cronin is a wolf because of that.

I said Cronin might still be a wolf, but on day 2, Ardent's comment was enough to let Cronin slide while we looked at better targets. I gave my list of who I thought were better targets (including you on that list) of you and Path mainly. Today my list is still the same, but with Saldana on as well due to him not having a role as I initially feared on the good side and wanting to give him a pass because of it.

[Poli]

Out of interest why did you choose to tap Cronin's phone? Seems like you think there were more suspicious people out there. I presume you would tap the phone of the person you find most suspicious.
Cronin had a few votes on him, mine included, on day one. I was hoping this would spark some sort of night action from him, if he had one.

Besides, instead of trying to get "suspicious" people, I'd rather look for people I want to clear first for my trusted list.

[Poli]

I am still a little peeved at Bullet for how he went down. I said clearly several times a few hours before the lynch vote that I had planned on voting for Bullet if it remained tied up. Instead of trying to make any case whatsoever, he comes out with a line that makes him sound completely not on our side and I quoted it and even told him such and said he needed to come clean.

This was with well over an hour to go. Instead he says nothing else and appears to not even care about our side evidentally. His comment afterwards even proved that he didn't care. Basically saying if we're going to vote for him, then he'll just spite us and not even give us a chance to consider his side.

Its completely rediculous all together. I don't feel bad for keeping my vote there as I gave him a chance and he chose not to do anything with it. What I do feel bad about is us not having a bodyguard because of that decision
It may influence my vote in future games, I know that,

[Narcizo]

It may influence my vote in future games, I know that,

Seconded.

[Narcizo]

Cronin had a few votes on him, mine included, on day one. I was hoping this would spark some sort of night action from him, if he had one.

Besides, instead of trying to get "suspicious" people, I'd rather look for people I want to clear first for my trusted list.

I believe your vote on him was nothing to do with the game. I don't see how getting a bunch of votes is going to make him more likely to make a night action.

Using something as powerful as a phone tap in order to clear someone when the chances are that a good guy won't have a night action just strikes me as a complete waste.

[Narcizo]

I said Cronin might still be a wolf, but on day 2, Ardent's comment was enough to let Cronin slide while we looked at better targets. I gave my list of who I thought were better targets (including you on that list) of you and Path mainly. Today my list is still the same, but with Saldana on as well due to him not having a role as I initially feared on the good side and wanting to give him a pass because of it.

I'm not aware that I've been arguing with your maths, it does make it less probable that st cronin is a wolf.

However to my mind, look at it from a cost-gain standpoint. If t cronin turns out to be bad then we get a whole lot more than just one dead wolf. We get a line on you, we get a line on AE and it looks highly unlikely that ITC is a wolf.

If we vote ITC or me and we turn out to be a wolf what more do we gain? Nothing more than another bunch of vague indications which we already have a bucketload of.

[Alan T]

I believe your vote on him was nothing to do with the game. I don't see how getting a bunch of votes is going to make him more likely to make a night action.

Using something as powerful as a phone tap in order to clear someone when the chances are that a good guy won't have a night action just strikes me as a complete waste.

I don't understand why you are pressing him on this. I think it perfectly makes sense. Many times in games I have had a role that let me learn more about someone. I almost always end up using it on my top suspect to either give me proof to stay on them or to change directions. It seems Ardent was most interested in learning if he should distrust Cronin or not. Was it all due to this game reasons? probably not. Its probably a case of Ardent and Cronin having a relationship that he would have more fun in this game if he could go for the ride with Cronin so to speak. So to him the person he was most interested in trying to clear or damn was his buddy cronin.

Would I have chosen Cronin there? Probably not. I probably would have chosen Saldana for the reasons I previously said. Do I think Ardent's reveal clears Cronin? No I've already stated what I feel about the reveal. I just don't get why you are trying to hammer this point home though today. It feels to me you are trying to discredit Ardent in another attempt to have a run on Cronin. I'm not sure if this feels wolfish to me or just feels misplaced is all right now. I fully understand your wanting to create traction earlier in the day so your vote can have more meaning. I just don't know if Ardent is that line to follow is all.

[Alan T]

I'm not aware that I've been arguing with your maths, it does make it less probable that st cronin is a wolf.

However to my mind, look at it from a cost-gain standpoint. If t cronin turns out to be bad then we get a whole lot more than just one dead wolf. We get a line on you, we get a line on AE and it looks highly unlikely that ITC is a wolf.

If we vote ITC or me and we turn out to be a wolf what more do we gain? Nothing more than another bunch of vague indications which we already have a bucketload of.

You see I don't agree with that. I am tending to think Ardent is ok regardless of Cronin's guilt or not. I just don't get a wolf vibe from Ardent at all. If Cronin is bad and you want to lynch me because of it, I don't really care. I just find a few other people including you who feel much more wolfish to me than Cronin is all.

I fully understanding trying to lynch people to get the most information out of what happened, especially when the seer is gone. However I just don't usually feel a day 1 vote is the place that is best done from. More often than not a day 1 vote is a run off between villager vs villager and wasting 3-4 days trying to chase your tail from it ends up just wasting 3-4 days.

[Narcizo]

A google of Jack Armstrong tells me that he's a baseball player who played for the Cincinnati Reds. :D Someone's got a sense of humour.

The obvious conclusion is that we have a mercenary trying to find an employee. Perhaps too obvious.

[Alan T]

A google of Jack Armstrong tells me that he's a baseball player who played for the Cincinnati Reds. :D Someone's got a sense of humour.

The obvious conclusion is that we have a mercenary trying to find an employee. Perhaps too obvious.


Well like I said before the name Armstrong, it felt to me like it was a hint of being the bodyguard. Thats why I didn't press him on it and said I would let it slide. Now with both the seer and bodyguard dead.. I don't feel bad at all pressing him on this. Worst case scenerio he is the duke and ends up using his duke powers to save himself anyways. I just don't see a cia agent coming out revealing a name like that for no reason.

[Narcizo]

I don't understand why you are pressing him on this. I think it perfectly makes sense.

We've got next to nothing solid to go on. If someone is going to use one of what now looks like a very limited stock of powers I think we deserve some sort of explanation. If AE is telling the truth then I think it was a waste of a power.

[molson]

It may influence my vote in future games, I know that,

Basically, he's a guy you can't trust even when you know he's a human/CIA agent.

[Alan T]

We've got next to nothing solid to go on. If someone is going to use one of what now looks like a very limited stock of powers I think we deserve some sort of explanation. If AE is telling the truth then I think it was a waste of a power.


Well I fully disagree with this and have given my reasons. As far as next to nothing to go on, you've already commented on what I felt was something to go on today. I feel you are pushing a bit too hard for a CIA agent right now with a certain agenda.

[Narcizo]

Well maybe it's because I'm inexperienced. But I don't think anyone will argue that my style so far has been to press things to try and get information. I'm curious what my agenda would be. With the game in its current state surely all the wolves have to do is sink into/stay in the background and chances are they're going to win.

[Narcizo]

And I have to press things now before the night actions are revealed because I have very little time afterwards.

[Alan T]

Well maybe it's because I'm inexperienced. But I don't think anyone will argue that my style so far has been to press things to try and get information. I'm curious what my agenda would be. With the game in its current state surely all the wolves have to do is sink into/stay in the background and chances are they're going to win.

I think you have been putting forth pretty well thought out comments, and inexperience was never in my mind. I think your thoughts for why you would like to lynch cronin to find out more about day 1 are logical, I just think a day 1 vote rarely tells us much more than the odds just aren't with us. Only when we get lucky.. well do we get lucky.

Where I feel an agenda comes in is when you start going down the path of not necessarily attacking, but at least trying to discredit anyone who gave any support of Cronin. Its a very painful fact that sometimes Good guys put trust in bad guys. Whether or not cronin is a bad guy will be seen at some point, but that doesn't automatically mean anyone else there is bad too. In fact unless they are very daring, I don't usually see wolves backing each other at the beginning of the game. They wouldn't know they would nail the Seer that night, and they must assume Cronin or someone in the group would have been scanned that night. One seer scan could reveal all of them by doing that.

So I still stand by my original statement. i feel Ardent is likely good, I don't know about Cronin, but have other targets that are much more wolfish to me that I will be going for.

[Alan T]

And I have to press things now before the night actions are revealed because I have very little time afterwards.

Yeah I understand that fully. Don't get me wrong. I enjoy people being more involved in a discussion, and I know your reservations coming in was that you feared with your time zone it would make it more difficult or perhaps less enjoyable. So I'm trying to work with you in the discussion here, I just think I disagree with the conclusions that are coming out of them and it is causing me to have reservations about your loyalty.

[st.cronin]

We're past deadline, right? WAKE UP LATHUM

[st.cronin]

Narcizo, what are your thoughts on ITC? Saldana?

[Narcizo]

I think Saldana could be the mercenary although I don't know how likely he is to be that obvious. I think it's odd that he should decide to give himself a name like that considering how suspicious it normally is to rerveal that your PM was different from anyone else's but I find it unlikely that Lathum would give him a name and not everyone else.

I think ITC made a bit of a hash of the first day vote but from my limited experience of him that seems to be in keeping with his usual play. (no offense ITC ;) ). Apart from that I don't see him as being more suspicious than anyone else.

If I had to vote between the two of them I'd probably choose Saldana.

[st.cronin]

Alan, do you think its possible that Narc is the merc?

[Alan T]

Alan, do you think its possible that Narc is the merc?

I don't honestly have any clue. Without anything other than my hypothesis to go on about what the merc actually is and how he fits in, plus who the negotiator is and what side he is on.. I really don't know that I can say fully how the merc would play.

My gut instinct is that the merc would play similarly to how a wolf played in the sense of trying to fit in like a normal villager. The only difference is the merc likely would have less of an agenda to push than a wolf would. If I had to rely on my gut instinct here, I would say its more likely that Narcizo is a wolf than the mercenary. But thats just my guess.

[Alan T]

I see Molly is here. Molly throw something at Lathum to wake him!

[st.cronin]

Alan, how do you feel about ITC?

[Alan T]

Alan, how do you feel about ITC?

I'm unchanged from my thoughts yesterday on him.

[Lathum]

our dog had me up unti 5:00 AM because of thunderstorms. Results coming.

[Lathum]

You all gather again in the mess hall for breakfast and realize another one of you is missing. Narciczo has failed to turn up for breakfast, givin his appetite thatis unlike him! You rush to his room to discover him in bed with his face blown off. You wrap his body in a sheet and prepare to bury him out back.

Narcizo was an ordinary CIA agent.

Day 3 has begun, deadline 9:00 PM EST

[Lathum]

again, sorry about the delay. Our dog is an 85 pound golden retriever that turns into a lap dog and the worlds biggest pussy during thunderstorms.

[Poli]

Yo, I had a visitor. Let me look at what the roles were and I'll give you what I think happened.

Mind you, I'm having a problem with my computer (noted in GD, if you can help, please do), so I may not be the most helpful person today.

[st.cronin]

hmmmm

[Poli]

Someone else just entered my trust circle, but I'm not sure I'm at liberty to say...seeing as the negotiator is the only one able to do what I think happened.

[MollyMurphy]

I see Molly is here. Molly throw something at Lathum to wake him!

Sorry guys, I am in Arkansas, so I can't do anything...I am in meetings and just have the page open, so I am not always looking at the page...he is up now though...got a phone call from him.

[Narcizo]

Good luck to you. You're going to need it.

[st.cronin]

I believe Barkeep hasn't made a single post in this thread.

[ImTheCrew]

Narzico Was on to AE
so for now ill vote

VOTE AE

[Poli]

heh

[st.cronin]

Are you kidding

vote Im The Crew

[path12]

Using something as powerful as a phone tap in order to clear someone when the chances are that a good guy won't have a night action just strikes me as a complete waste.

Well, when would you use it then? He found Cronin suspicious enough for a first day vote, he was one of the top two vote getters -- I have no problem with using that to see one way or the other in that case.

[Barkeep49]

I like simple solutions. Who was Narcizo most suspicious of? Cronin. So it seems like I'll cast my vote that way.

Vote Cronin

[ImTheCrew]

UNVOTE AE
VOTE CRONIN

got the two mixed up

[path12]

I don't know that I agree with Alan on the Jack Armstrong reference -- I think that was just flavor as Jack Armstrong was the All-American Boy back in old radio days. I had assumed that's what Saldana meant, but I guess it could signal something, but it doesn't sound like a mercenary sort of thing for sure.

[st.cronin]

unvote ITC
vote Saldana

I'm not going to object too much to people voting for me, since as I told Narc, when I come up good ae and Alan should more or less be cleared as well. I'm not going to vote for myself, but I'll take one for the team.

[Poli]

Good thing I have popcorn.

[Alan T]

Vote barkeep

I voted for Dodgerchick earlier and think Barkeep just now popping in and first thing he says is the "frame up" vote on cronin just feels off to me.

[Poli]

Vote Barkeep.

Me too.

[st.cronin]

I think DC/BK is likely good, but I'll move my vote to survive. It is notable that the two players I trust the most are voting for BK.

I'm most suspicious of ITC and saldana right now.

[Poli]

By my vote, you can tell barkeep wasn't the one who came rapping at my chamber door.

[Alan T]

By my vote, you can tell barkeep wasn't the one who came rapping at my chamber door.

Ardent, I'm not sure if I want a discussion yet on who that player was, but I'm more interested in a discussion on what do we think the negotiator does and do we think its on our team. I have had a bit of a problem trying to figure out how the mercenary and the negotiator play into the whole scheme of thing.

At best I think the mercenary is neutral, possibly convertable to good but more likely I think its someone we have to treat as not in our own interest. Now the negotiator I am a little more fuzzy on. They deal with the mercenary, and it does not give any hint to what their role might lean to. It also says the negotiator can offer the merc a contract...

A contract to do what exactly?

I guess I am hesitant to just put blind trust in the negotiator without knowing if they are even on our side. I don't understand how the role functions and they are tied to someone I don't believe is on our side. You seem to feel they are good though. Can you elaborate why?

[molson]

Vote barkeep

I voted for Dodgerchick earlier and think Barkeep just now popping in and first thing he says is the "frame up" vote on cronin just feels off to me.

It felt off to me, but it's hard to reconcile DC seemingly "giving up" on day 1 with a spy role.

Unless her week was so busy she didn't feel like she could do a good job with such a role and it freaked her out a little, which seems possible.

[st.cronin]

My understanding of the negotiator is that he's like a second seer, only he can ONLY find the merc - and when he does, the merc becomes a villager. I guess the kgb have their own negotiator, and if they find the merc first, the merc becomes a wolf.

That's how I understand it, Alan.

[MollyMurphy]

I just reread the roles...I think the mercenary is up for grabs....they do not care who they work for as long as it is at the right price. The negotiator is there to present the contracts to the mercenary.

[MollyMurphy]

My understanding of the negotiator is that he's like a second seer, only he can ONLY find the merc - and when he does, the merc becomes a villager. I guess the kgb have their own negotiator, and if they find the merc first, the merc becomes a wolf.

That's how I understand it, Alan.

That sounds right.

[path12]

At best I think the mercenary is neutral, possibly convertable to good but more likely I think its someone we have to treat as not in our own interest. Now the negotiator I am a little more fuzzy on. They deal with the mercenary, and it does not give any hint to what their role might lean to. It also says the negotiator can offer the merc a contract...

A contract to do what exactly?

I guess I am hesitant to just put blind trust in the negotiator without knowing if they are even on our side. I don't understand how the role functions and they are tied to someone I don't believe is on our side. You seem to feel they are good though. Can you elaborate why?

The way I read it (and I could be way off) was that the negotiator was on our side and I would assume that one of the spies has the ability to try and search for their side -- it makes the most sense to me that way that there would be a race to find the mercenary and either keep good or try and convert.

[path12]

oops, typed too slow. Was caught on a call halfway through....

[Alan T]

It felt off to me, but it's hard to reconcile DC seemingly "giving up" on day 1 with a spy role.

Unless her week was so busy she didn't feel like she could do a good job with such a role and it freaked her out a little, which seems possible.

From what I know of DC, she seems like a kind, caring person. I think she really got upset at how the whole thing with me happened and perhaps regardless of what I said to try to let her know I was ok and didn't think any worse of her I think she still felt bad. I wouldn't be suprised if she is the type of person who cared more about people than about a game even with a decent role.

So I think in my mind I'm keeping everything to do with DC and that interaction out of my thoughts about Barkeep for now. Like I said, Barkeep's play seemed really off to me and at least for now I like that vote. Maybe I will change my mind as that was a sudden ping on my radar and I still have others I am concerned about.. but it really set off my "spidey senses"

[st.cronin]

Alan, the only issue I have is that Barkeep is too canny a player to make a hit and run vote like that if he were a wolf. Assuming I get lynched (which if he's bad it seems like that's the play), when I turn up good, Barkeep will come under intense scrutiny. I think he's likely good. I don't want to get lynched, so I'll vote for him if I have to. I think the wolves are elsewhere, though.

[molson]

From what I know of DC, she seems like a kind, caring person. I think she really got upset at how the whole thing with me happened and perhaps regardless of what I said to try to let her know I was ok and didn't think any worse of her I think she still felt bad. I wouldn't be suprised if she is the type of person who cared more about people than about a game even with a decent role.



I see that, but by the same line of thinking, it's hard to see her voting for herself (when she already had a vote against her, if I'm not mistaken), if she had a spy role, and throw the other spies under the bus like that. I know she was upset, but if she had a spy role - wouldn't she just quit or waste the day 1 vote, instead of trying to get herself whacked?

[Alan T]

I see that, but by the same line of thinking, it's hard to see her voting for herself (when she already had a vote against her, if I'm not mistaken), if she had a spy role, and throw the other spies under the bus like that. I know she was upset, but if she had a spy role - wouldn't she just quit or waste the day 1 vote, instead of trying to get herself whacked?

She wasn't the lead vote getter or close to it at the time if I remember right. I think there were a few people with more votes even after her vote for herself.

[molson]

She wasn't the lead vote getter or close to it at the time if I remember right. I think there were a few people with more votes even after her vote for herself.

It was her 2nd vote (you cast the first one), and no one else had more than 2at that point, so she put herself in a tie for the lead.

Of course, she might not have even been aware of that when she made the post.

[Alan T]

It was her 2nd vote (you cast the first one), and no one else had more than 2at that point, so she put herself in a tie for the lead.

Of course, she might not have even been aware of that when she made the post.


Ok for arguement sake, who do you think is the most likely to be wolf, and why?

[Chief Rum]

I don't buy the DC/BK reasoning just yet, and I'm not willing to sacrifice st cronin for the good of the team. But I need to make a vote, as this is one of my "two-job" days.

IMTheCrew's vote on AE really threw me, but his change since then makes more sense of that. I'm still suspicious of him.

I decided to go with Molly. She and Alan were the only ones with a vote on both ntndeacon and bullet at the end of the day, and Alan's move was much more publicized (not a move I consider wolfish). So for now, I go with her.

VOTE MOLLYMURPHY

[molson]

Ok for arguement sake, who do you think is the most likely to be wolf, and why?

Off the top of my head at the moment, saldana, and I'm suspicious of ITC. I don't want to articulate the reasons at the moment because I'm not at that point yet (and I'm doing the checking in from work thing), but basically the reasons are the same as others that share those suspicions. Nothing more concrete, sadly.

[bulletsponge]

You gotta be kidding me. :mad:

I don't want to pile on here, but I have to say it; honestly, folks, if you're a key role for good, don't sit there and die without saying what the heck you are! That's just not having your head in the game if you are the BG and you buy it this early.

ok for the record i forgot to check back into the game. that night my brothers came over and we played some Mariocart racing and were having a blast. by the time it was over i rememberd to check back in and i was already dead. although even them i probably still wouldnt have revealed my role in keeping with the way i play.

btw i did tell everyone that any American would regret hanging me :p

[beargrowlz]

Ok, so why would the KGB target Narc?

1) From what I have picked up in this game, it seems to be general concensus that wolves target experienced villagers over inexperienced villagers, feeling the experience in the game is more of a threat than the unknown.

2) Narc has admitted he was inexperienced, and no one has contradicted him that he wasn't. Having never played before, I will thus assume that Narc falls in the inexperienced category.

Given that, why would the KGB target him, given that there were very experienced players who were participating in the discussion, such as Alan and Cronin, that would have made better targets?

3) Narc was onto someone who was KGB and they felt threatened by him. Narc was somewhat suspicious of me, moreso of Ardent, and even moreso of Cronin. If one of us were KGB, and Narc continued to press his line of thinking, that would make him a prime target.

or

4) The other prime, experienced, and participating targets for the KGB, Alan and Cronin, are KGB - both of them or individually - and they wouldn't take out their own. It's difficult for me to see Cronin as KGB given his first day actions of practically talking me into voting for him and almost getting himself shot. We also have AE's post stating that Cronin didn't make a night action Night 1 - not entirely exculpatory, but certainly adds some circumstantial evidence to the idea that Cronin is not KGB - or that Ardent is lying.

Why would Ardent lie if Cronin were CIA though? So if Ardent is lying, Cronin is most likely KGB and played me Day 1 - though it almost ended up getting him killed.

Alan on the other hand has drawn no posted suspicion from anyone, and that hardly seems to be reason to suspect him.

Ok, so as I see it, the possible players who benefit from a Narc kill if they are KGB are me, Cronin, Alan, Ardent.

Did I miss anyone that Narc was suspicious of? And are there other highly experienced players that have been participating that would make more likely targets than Narc unless they were KGB?

None of this however, touches upon the notion that a number of KGB are probably flying under the radar and just quiet.

But I can't get away from the idea that Narc was killed either a) because he was dangerously close to outing a spy or b) to protect someone else.

Either that or it was just a senseless, random CIA player the KGB chose to kill.

Not at all certain who to vote for atm.






4)

[Poli]

Ardent, I'm not sure if I want a discussion yet on who that player was, but I'm more interested in a discussion on what do we think the negotiator does and do we think its on our team. I have had a bit of a problem trying to figure out how the mercenary and the negotiator play into the whole scheme of thing.

At best I think the mercenary is neutral, possibly convertable to good but more likely I think its someone we have to treat as not in our own interest. Now the negotiator I am a little more fuzzy on. They deal with the mercenary, and it does not give any hint to what their role might lean to. It also says the negotiator can offer the merc a contract...

A contract to do what exactly?

I guess I am hesitant to just put blind trust in the negotiator without knowing if they are even on our side. I don't understand how the role functions and they are tied to someone I don't believe is on our side. You seem to feel they are good though. Can you elaborate why?

Mind you, I'm at work, so pardon any formatting. I think we're the only side with a negotiator, and I think if the KGB go for a night kill and find the merc, they get a conversion. That's why I'm fairly certain the person who came a rapping at my chamber door was looking for that merc.

[Alan T]

I had kind of hoped I would have been attacked last night honestly. I had found yesterday at the start of the day a sensor. I could have passed it or kept it or used it. I decided at the end of the day to use the sensor to warn me if anyone came after me.

Regardless of my moves, its like I can't make people consider I might be a wolf this game. And I hate it when people "buddy up" with me so to speak, it always makes me super suspicious. So my thought was perhaps since I couldn't buy any suspicion from anyone I would end up a target and used it last night.

Unfortunatly no one targeted me, I didnt get attacked and now can't use it anymore.

Usually when people leave me around in games its because I generate alot of traffic for them to hide in and I'm usually wrong on all of my guesses until after day 4 at the earliest anyways, yet I manage to convince people to follow me easily on votes the first two or three days when I'm just guessing like everyone else.

If I had to guess there are two experienced, well known Wolfs left just based on the people left. Then perhaps 1 newer player.

[Poli]

Alan, the only issue I have is that Barkeep is too canny a player to make a hit and run vote like that if he were a wolf. Assuming I get lynched (which if he's bad it seems like that's the play), when I turn up good, Barkeep will come under intense scrutiny. I think he's likely good. I don't want to get lynched, so I'll vote for him if I have to. I think the wolves are elsewhere, though.

+1

[Alan T]

+1


If you agree with this statement then why did you vote Barkeep also? :confused:

[Poli]

Because he usually doesn't like the Qwik Vote plan. That's really were I was going with the +1.

[st.cronin]

Regardless of my moves, its like I can't make people consider I might be a wolf this game.

I wish I had that problem. :(

[beargrowlz]

Regardless of my moves, its like I can't make people consider I might be a wolf this game.

Why would you want to though?

[Lathum]

The commanding officer calls you all in to a meeting to inform you a new experimental device will be received sometime today. The device is a lie detector. I will select one of you at random to receive and test this device. The device allows you to review one post from a particular user and determine if they are telling the truth.

The goverment is awaiting test results so this item must be used within 12 hours of receiving it.

[Alan T]

Why would you want to though?

You learn that after a while after being night killed repeatedly on night 1 or night 2 that sometimes its not the most useful thing to be someone that most people don't consider to be a wolf. I'm not wanting people to think I'm a wolf obviously, but I just have a hard time swallowing that everyone thinks -none- of my moves are even a little suspicious.

[beargrowlz]

Sweet. That seems like prescient timing.

So let's see if we can get some folks on record for whomever gets the lie detector to take a shot at.

First, I am not a KGB agent. I am also not the merc. I am a plain CIA agent.

Alan, Cronin, Ardent, you are the other three Narc was suspicious of or are the most experienced players not targeted. Are you guys a KGB agent or the merc?

Hopefully this will narrow it down some.

[path12]

Regardless of my moves, its like I can't make people consider I might be a wolf this game. And I hate it when people "buddy up" with me so to speak, it always makes me super suspicious. So my thought was perhaps since I couldn't buy any suspicion from anyone I would end up a target and used it last night.

If it makes you feel any better, I think you might be a wolf. But really, I think any of you could be a wolf right now. I guess if I had to make a list it would be:

Trust: Nobody
Slight lean good: Ardent, Cronin
Neutral to slight distrust: Everyone else.

[Alan T]

Sweet. That seems like prescient timing.

So let's see if we can get some folks on record for whomever gets the lie detector to take a shot at.

First, I am not a KGB agent. I am also not the merc. I am a plain CIA agent.

Alan, Cronin, Ardent, you are the other three Narc was suspicious of or are the most experienced players not targeted. Are you guys a KGB agent or the merc?

Hopefully this will narrow it down some.

no of course not.. and I honestly think that saying things specifically for a Soothsayer or lie detector role goes against the spirit of the game/role.

I've said plenty of times though that I am a cia agent, and even this morning said it in the context of conversation, so I have no problems with any of those being scanned.

[Poli]

The commanding officer calls you all in to a meeting to inform you a new experimental device will be received sometime today. The device is a lie detector. I will select one of you at random to receive and test this device. The device allows you to review one post from a particular user and determine if they are telling the truth.

The goverment is awaiting test results so this item must be used within 12 hours of receiving it.

Hmmm.

[Alan T]

Just went back to look at what I said, I didn't say exactly what I thought I said this morning.

Well either way I'm a cia agent

I still don't think its in the spirit of the role though.

[st.cronin]

I am just a regular CIA agent.

Caution: Normally a lie detector type ability only works for certain statements. So whoever ends up with the device may not be able to use it on that sort of statement.

I can't think of anything better to use it on, though. Maybe Alan's statement that he had a sensor?

[Poli]

Sweet. That seems like prescient timing.

So let's see if we can get some folks on record for whomever gets the lie detector to take a shot at.

First, I am not a KGB agent. I am also not the merc. I am a plain CIA agent.

Alan, Cronin, Ardent, you are the other three Narc was suspicious of or are the most experienced players not targeted. Are you guys a KGB agent or the merc?

Hopefully this will narrow it down some.

Too easy. I got visited last night. If I were the merc, I'd be CIA now. If I were KGB, I assume I likely would have killed him, or he would have killed me. I dunno. I'm a CIA agent...though given our CO's propensity for shooting people in the head, I think I'm transferring to the FBI. :) Just kidding. Again, if I were a merc, I clearly would have been converted, either way, last night.

[beargrowlz]

and I honestly think that saying things specifically for a Soothsayer or lie detector role goes against the spirit of the game/role.

Well, you've certainly got more experience at the game than I. but I beg to differ on this. When presented with a scratch off lottery ticket, you scratch it off and hope you've won the lottery. You don't leave it unscratched until after the deadline for claiming the prize.

thus, when presented with a lie detector, I find it not only to be within the spirit of the game to use it, but also darn useful.

But coming from a noob such as me, YMMV.

[beargrowlz]

I dunno. I'm a CIA agent...though given our CO's propensity for shooting people in the head, I think I'm transferring to the FBI. :) Just kidding.

LOL

[Poli]

I am just a regular CIA agent.

Caution: Normally a lie detector type ability only works for certain statements. So whoever ends up with the device may not be able to use it on that sort of statement.

I can't think of anything better to use it on, though. Maybe Alan's statement that he had a sensor?

Or that I tapped your phone OR that I had a visitor. There seems to be a small discussion that I could be lieing. Try me.

[st.cronin]

Or that I tapped your phone OR that I had a visitor. There seems to be a small discussion that I could be lieing. Try me.

It would be hilarious if YOU ended up with the lie detector.

[Poli]

It would be hilarious if YOU ended up with the lie detector.

If I do, I'll be mad.

[beargrowlz]

I would like to note that simply saying you're a CIA agent probably wouldn't be detected as a lie if you're KGB or the merc, as you are posing as a CIA agent.

I think - and am only guessing here, that basically stating I am not KGb or I am not the merc could be detected as lies.

But everyone in the game is a CIA agent.

YMMV.

[Alan T]

I am just a regular CIA agent.

Caution: Normally a lie detector type ability only works for certain statements. So whoever ends up with the device may not be able to use it on that sort of statement.

I can't think of anything better to use it on, though. Maybe Alan's statement that he had a sensor?


I don't care if its used on my statement, but it doesnt make sense using on a statement about an item that doesn't prove if you are good or bad. Even if I was bad I would have a chance of getting a sensor. If you're interested in me, I trust that you could find many better things to consider.

Perhaps an idea would be for each of us to look back at the thread over the past few days and see what statements people have made that we should nominate for scanning.

Ideally a statement that only has one true/false in it. Not something that could have partial truth and partial falsness (scanning multiple comments) if that makes sense.

[Lathum]

I should have mentioned the lie detector only works on statements that were made prior to it being received.

[st.cronin]

I got kicked off an AOL chat room in 1993 for being inappropriate.

I nominate this statement. j/k

[st.cronin]

I should have mentioned the lie detector only works on statements that were made prior to it being received.

Well, pfffffffffft.

[beargrowlz]

I should have mentioned the lie detector only works on statements that were made prior to it being received.

Boo hiss. ;)

Still leaves plenty to choose from though, for whomever gets it.

Better than where we were.

[beargrowlz]

Dola.

Can someone think of any other possible reason why Narc was killed last night aside from those reasons I listed?

[Alan T]

Dola.

Can someone think of any other possible reason why Narc was killed last night aside from those reasons I listed?

Sure, even though this was his second game, he's been following WW games for quite a while. He put together well thought out arguements (even if I didn't agree with all of them), and most importantly he was good.

[st.cronin]

Dola.

Can someone think of any other possible reason why Narc was killed last night aside from those reasons I listed?

To get Barkeep to vote for me? :)

[beargrowlz]

To get Barkeep to vote for me? :)

For some reason Cronin, you haven't had any trouble attracting votes. ;)

(I'm still not really certain why)

Alan, does this stop being true after Day 1?

Basically only bad players want experienced players voted out on day 1!

Are bad guys likely to leave experienced good guys alone after the first day and go after relative newbies unless that newbie is onto something?

If so, why does the dynamic change after day 1?

[beargrowlz]

Are bad guys likely to leave experienced good guys alone after the first day and go after relative newbies unless that newbie is onto something?


What I meant to ask was, are bad guys really likely to leave experienced good players alone after day 1 and go after relative newbies?

Or does it generally require the newb to be onto someone or something?

And if the dynamic does change, why do you think it does?

[Alan T]

No, I only meant that in day 1 because its the only day you have zero information to go on. So its all random. I find players who want to vote out other people that could be a valuable addition to our team for no reason are the most wolfish on day 1.

After day 1, things change and you have more information to work with.

[beargrowlz]

Welp, no early vote from me today.

I'll wait and see if the info from the lie detector gets made public before I vote.

My inclination is to vote for someone Narc was suspicious of (which ironically enough, includes me).

That being said, at some point we probably do need to discuss the players flying under the radar so to speak and not posting much.

[path12]

Lathum, is it possible for a spy to get the lie detector?

[Lathum]

Lathum, is it possible for a spy to get the lie detector?

yes. it was done with random.org

[MollyMurphy]

Sorry, I have been in meetings all day and I am leaving in about 15 min. for the airport. I will be out until after the vote but I am at home after this...travelling is done and I can be more involved. I will have to place my vote soon.

Currently, I do have some suspicion on Alan due to his voting swing to NTN on day one..on day 2 we all pressed very hard for bullet to give us a reason not to vote, and he did not step up so not necessarily holding this against him. Narc had some suspicion on him too.

I also have some suspicion on cronin since he was on Narc's radar.

Saldana is questionable given that he came out with a "code name"...seems like odd behavior

AE...I would have had suspicion, but then someone came to your door and you shared it...may be naive of me, but I am not as concerned about you now...

[MollyMurphy]

As I have read through the thread more, the only suspicious thing Saldana has done is the "name", so I don't give this much basis to call him KGB...

In fact, b/c Alan pushed that so hard, it is one more strike against Alan in my mind b/c he pushed on something so little.

[Alan T]

Well I was hoping for some more feedback about the lie detector. Our CO gave me the lie detector to try to figure things out. So my initial instict was to either:

1) Do it on something Cronin said

2) Do it on something one of my suspects said.

Obviously #1 would either clear or damn Cronin, and #2 would help me piece things together.

The issue if I use #1 is that I'm tied to Cronin some due to the day 1 vote, so me scanning him and finding him clean won't clear him in many minds (or it shouldn't).

So I'm probably stuck with #2, which is why I asked for people to toss out ideas, but unfortunatly not many of you chose to. I thought about looking at Saldana but decided not to. I think my strongest leaning was to scan something Path said.

Sooooo I read the entire thread not once, but twice looking for a single time Path said he was american or cia or anything.. and Path has so carefully covered his words that I could not find a single time where he admits to being on our side. This doesn't help me any in clearing him obviously and actually makes me feel much worse about him to the point I likely will switch my vote back to him.

I'm going through Path's comments for a third time to see if I can find anything i can use, but any suggestions before I submit something?

[MollyMurphy]

As I have read through the thread more, the only suspicious thing Saldana has done is the "name", so I don't give this much basis to call him KGB...

In fact, b/c Alan pushed that so hard, it is one more strike against Alan in my mind b/c he pushed on something so little.

I am heading out for the airport...I am torn between Cronin and Alan....but I have more points that I have gathered on Alan.

Vote Alan T

[st.cronin]

Alan, I looked through the thread as well, and didn't find anything other than ardent's statements. I hate to say it, but I think the device is not much use at this point.

[Alan T]

Alan, I looked through the thread as well, and didn't find anything other than ardent's statements. I hate to say it, but I think the device is not much use at this point.


I have to use it within 12 hours, and there are various comments from some people which I am fine using it for. Right now I'm really wanting to look at Path, and seeing Molly jump on me suddenly kind of is very very interesting I think.

[st.cronin]

I don't know what to make of Molly, either, Alan. There's a group of 4 players that haven't really done much but vote.

Chief Rum
Molly Murphy
path12
saldana

I'm very leery of saldana, because of the Jack Armstrong thing. My best guess is that there is at least one wolf in that group. I also think its possible you're a wolf. My hesitation in voting for you is that whenever it seems like you're acting funny, and whenever you're suspicious of me, it always ends up that we're both villagers.

Can you use your lie detector on saldana's Jack Armstrong statement? That's probably what I would do if I were you.

[st.cronin]

wow...i havent even checked in yet (jack armstrong, all american boy checking in, btw) and i have gotten 2 votes and started a fight.

my first thought would have been to vote for narcizo, since he was the first person to cast a second vote, but bulletsponge's little vote and run thing pretty much locks me in place to

vote bulletsponge

Here it is, post # 107

[path12]

Sooooo I read the entire thread not once, but twice looking for a single time Path said he was american or cia or anything.. and Path has so carefully covered his words that I could not find a single time where he admits to being on our side. This doesn't help me any in clearing him obviously and actually makes me feel much worse about him to the point I likely will switch my vote back to him.

I'm going through Path's comments for a third time to see if I can find anything i can use, but any suggestions before I submit something?

Well, all I can say is that in my posts to date I haven't been talking with the expectation of needing a truthiness statement to be checked. As you well know I tend to be pretty flexible and non-committal early until I start to get a sense of what's going on or see an obvious mistake then I start pressing.

I'd like to stress though that it's a matter of my playing style rather than "carefully covering my words". If anything I'm usually far more careless in my wordings then I should be. I could tell you now for sure that I'm good, but it doesn't help at this point, and I think most of us have trended away from the obligatory "villager here" statement at check in.

That said, if you want to vote me feel free. I've got no special role.

[Alan T]

Here it is, post # 107


In talking to Lathum about the item, Saldana's post probably wouldn't be a good one to scan. Saldana already has admitted that statement was false (that isn't his name), so the lie detector would just confirm that Saldana was lying there in that sentence. We wouldn't learn anything new.

I found something from Path that i can use I believe and will likely submit that.

[st.cronin]

Cool, standing by.

[Alan T]

Cool, standing by.

I sent it in, waiting to hear back and will post more when I know more.

[st.cronin]

Just a heads up, I'm heading out in about 30 minutes and will likely not be back at all tonight.

[Alan T]

Unvote Barkeep
Vote Path

I submitted this:

If it makes you feel any better, I think you might be a wolf.

With the idea that if he was a wolf, this would be false, he would know I wasnt a wolf. If he was a good guy, then Lathum couldn't possibly know his thoughts and it likely would be true.

Well when I submitted the test, it came back false, Path was lying. So he doesn't think I am a wolf, which leads me to believe he must be one.

This is where my vote will stay until he dies or I die. You can choose to believe me or not..

[st.cronin]

good enough for me

unvote saldana
vote path12

[path12]

Unvote Barkeep
Vote Path

I submitted this:



With the idea that if he was a wolf, this would be false, he would know I wasnt a wolf. If he was a good guy, then Lathum couldn't possibly know his thoughts and it likely would be true.

Well when I submitted the test, it came back false, Path was lying. So he doesn't think I am a wolf, which leads me to believe he must be one.

This is where my vote will stay until he dies or I die. You can choose to believe me or not..

So you have a statement that is a "might be" statement and expect me to believe that I lied about it? Especially when I've gotten no notice about you showing up at my door at all?

I guess we know that a spy got the lie detector. You know perfectly well that a truth telling statement has to be a yes or no answer, not a maybe.

VOTE ALAN T

[beargrowlz]

With the idea that if he was a wolf, this would be false, he would know I wasnt a wolf. If he was a good guy, then Lathum couldn't possibly know his thoughts and it likely would be true.

Well when I submitted the test, it came back false, Path was lying. So he doesn't think I am a wolf, which leads me to believe he must be one.

This is where my vote will stay until he dies or I die. You can choose to believe me or not..

And if Path is ordinary CIA, by your own logic this means you (Alan) are KGB, which means whomever is left tommorrow can vote to have Alan shot if he is lying, and if he is telling the truth, we've eliminated a KGB agent in Path.

I hate to sacrifice Path if he is innocent, but Alan's post clearly means either he or Path is KGB, so either way Path's death turns up a KGB spy.

Cold I know, but good enough for me at this point. We'll find out tonight for sure.

Vote Path.

[st.cronin]

So you have a statement that is a "might be" statement and expect me to believe that I lied about it? Especially when I've gotten no notice about you showing up at my door at all?

I guess we know that a spy got the lie detector. You know perfectly well that a truth telling statement has to be a yes or no answer, not a maybe.

VOTE ALAN T


I don't buy it. A KGB agent would just sit on the lie detector, or use it for his own purposes and not say anything.

[path12]

And if Path is ordinary CIA, by your own logic this means you (Alan) are KGB, which means whomever is left tommorrow can vote to have Alan shot if he is lying, and if he is telling the truth, we've eliminated a KGB agent in Path.

I hate to sacrifice Path if he is innocent, but Alan's post clearly means either he or Path is KGB, so either way Path's death turns up a KGB spy.

Cold I know, but good enough for me at this point. We'll find out tonight for sure.

Vote Path.

The problem is that I haven't had a PM telling me I had a visitor. And the fact that you can't do a lie detector on a question that isn't a yes or no answer. The only conclusion I come to is that Alan (who has mentioned me the last day or so) has found his chance to frame and get rid of one of the more experienced players here.

Like I said earlier, I've got no special role, but by losing me today and someone else tonight we're putting ourselves in a position where we will have little to no margin of error left by dint of numbers.

[Alan T]

So you have a statement that is a "might be" statement and expect me to believe that I lied about it? Especially when I've gotten no notice about you showing up at my door at all?

I guess we know that a spy got the lie detector. You know perfectly well that a truth telling statement has to be a yes or no answer, not a maybe.

VOTE ALAN T

See I know you are lying since my PM said I did show up at your door.

Glad you are making this easy for me :)

[path12]

See I know you are lying since my PM said I did show up at your door.

Glad you are making this easy for me :)

The PM you say you got. I didn't get one.

I'll tell you what. I've got body armor that I believe would protect me against a lynch. I will give that to someone on my trust list to show my intentions.

Ardent, you should be getting something from me soon.

[Alan T]

The problem is that I haven't had a PM telling me I had a visitor. And the fact that you can't do a lie detector on a question that isn't a yes or no answer. The only conclusion I come to is that Alan (who has mentioned me the last day or so) has found his chance to frame and get rid of one of the more experienced players here.

Like I said earlier, I've got no special role, but by losing me today and someone else tonight we're putting ourselves in a position where we will have little to no margin of error left by dint of numbers.

Hey if you turn up good then by all means lynch me. Im sure villagers will take a 1 for 1 that doesnt involve the seer any day.

[beargrowlz]

The problem is that I haven't had a PM telling me I had a visitor. And the fact that you can't do a lie detector on a question that isn't a yes or no answer. The only conclusion I come to is that Alan (who has mentioned me the last day or so) has found his chance to frame and get rid of one of the more experienced players here.

Like I said earlier, I've got no special role, but by losing me today and someone else tonight we're putting ourselves in a position where we will have little to no margin of error left by dint of numbers.

Well, I concede that Alan may very well be KGB. But it is also true that if you are KGB, you know the other KGB players (wolves), and thus if you write "I think Alan might be a wolf" and you know he is definitely not KGB, that statement is false, even though it says "maybe". If you know he is definitely not KGB, you cannot think he is possibly KGB.

Given that Alan has thrown down the gauntlet here, it seems clear either you or he is KGB.

I see no other play at this point.

[path12]

I don't buy it. A KGB agent would just sit on the lie detector, or use it for his own purposes and not say anything.

I'm saying he is using it for his own purposes. He's not actually using it but saying he did in order to frame me.

[path12]

Given that Alan has thrown down the gauntlet here, it seems clear either you or he is KGB.

I see no other play at this point.

Fair enough. But after killing me and tonight's kill (assuming 3 wolves as we seemed to have agreed on earlier) it will be 5-3-1 merc. Kill Alan tomorrow, you're at 5-2-1, after night kill 4-2-1. If the merc is turned you're toast after that. So it really does make a difference in which order you make the vote. You vote Alan today, you realize he's bad and we're at 5-2-1 after tonight and you know I'm clear, which is a huge difference.

[st.cronin]

I'm saying he is using it for his own purposes. He's not actually using it but saying he did in order to frame me.

Right, but why would he do that at all? If, as you say, you are good, then the finger will point right back at him tomorrow. He was under SOME heat today, but not enough to do something like this.

I think Alan is now fully trusted by me, and if you somehow come up as good, that's great. But this sequence makes no sense unless he's telling the truth.

[path12]

Dola, we're at 6-2-1 after tonight in that last sentence.

[st.cronin]

dola, that last paragraph came out all weird

[path12]

Right, but why would he do that at all? If, as you say, you are good, then the finger will point right back at him tomorrow. He was under SOME heat today, but not enough to do something like this.

I think Alan is now fully trusted by me, and if you somehow come up as good, that's great. But this sequence makes no sense unless he's telling the truth.

Because they're getting close to sweeping is my guess. Maybe they've already converted the mercenary, we really don't know. If that's the case even with a trade they put themselves in the position of being able to lock it up pretty much by tomorrow. That could be worth it.

[st.cronin]

Right, but why would he do that at all? If, as you say, you are good, then the finger will point right back at him tomorrow. He was under SOME heat today, but not enough to do something like this.

I think Alan is now fully trusted by me, and if you somehow come up as good, then we've been fucked by the gm. But this sequence makes no sense unless he's telling the truth.

That's more like what I meant. :D

[Alan T]

Like I said, people can believe me or not. I dont have any special role: I am simply a "Cia agent"

I feel confident I have a wolf, and thats good enough for me. If he ends up not as a wolf, then by all means kill me whenever, however it doesnt matter.

[beargrowlz]

So it really does make a difference in which order you make the vote.

I agree, it's best to take out the KGB agent and not take out the innocent party if at all possible.

But all we've got to go on is a statement by you that you think Alan might be KGB. Alan says the lie detector told him it was a false statement. Aside from any special WW rules I may be unaware of, your statement could be proven false logically if you knew Alan was not KGB.

All I've got to keep me from voting for you is that you say a maybe statement can't be proven false -- but in this case, logically it could be proven false.

Now if there's a special WW rule that's applicable here over a logical conclusion, please let me know.

But that's all I've got to hang my hat on atm.

[Alan T]

I agree, it's best to take out the KGB agent and not take out the innocent party if at all possible.

But all we've got to go on is a statement by you that you think Alan might be KGB. Alan says the lie detector told him it was a false statement. Aside from any special WW rules I may be unaware of, your statement could be proven false logically if you knew Alan was not KGB.

All I've got to keep me from voting for you is that you say a maybe statement can't be proven false -- but in this case, logically it could be proven false.

Now if there's a special WW rule that's applicable here over a logical conclusion, please let me know.

But that's all I've got to hang my hat on atm.

Its not even about the maybes anymore. Path says I didnt visit him, my PM says I did. So obviously one of us is lying. I say its him, he says its me.. you all get to decide which it is.

I obviously would have taken a different statement of his if he hadn't so carefully covered his words the entire game. I spent a very long time trying to find something I could even use. Path is an excellent player, an excellent wolf and I just got lucky here.

If you don't believe me then kill me instead. Either way its 1 to 1, and I'm giving you path's head on a stick.

[path12]

I agree, it's best to take out the KGB agent and not take out the innocent party if at all possible.

But all we've got to go on is a statement by you that you think Alan might be KGB.

Well, I can only make my case -- he's framed me pretty well, and though I know the truth I can't prove that to you except possibly through sacrificing my armor in order to gain some trust.

But let me make one thing clear. I am not suggesting that Alan MIGHT be KGB. I am asserting that Alan IS KGB.

Of course, you'll know that for yourself soon enough.

[Alan T]

Well, I can only make my case -- he's framed me pretty well, and though I know the truth I can't prove that to you except possibly through sacrificing my armor in order to gain some trust.

But let me make one thing clear. I am not suggesting that Alan MIGHT be KGB. I am asserting that Alan IS KGB.

Of course, you'll know that for yourself soon enough.


Since I've gotten two items this game, I believe Lathum is not lying to us (not that I know why the Moderator would lie), so I do believe everything is given out randomly. So you being a wolf getting body armor randomly doesn't suprise me at all.

Its a nice try, but you are obviously bad.

[beargrowlz]

Well I will say this.

It certainly got very exciting around here while I was responding to a call irl.

One way or the other we'll find out tonight who is lying.

[path12]

Its a nice try, but you are obviously bad.

LOL. You're using "obviously" in the "I know this is bullshit" sense, right? ;)

[Alan T]

LOL. You're using "obviously" in the "I know this is bullshit" sense, right? ;)


Well I'm using obviously in the sense that it makes pretty certain sense.

I submit your statement for a lie
Lathum says it comes back false
In the PM it says I go to you and have you re-say the line for the lie detector which you do.
Once it alarms false, I leave immediately.

You say I didn't see you.

There are just a few too many contradictory statements in there for me to think there is some other possibility. I am pretty certain you have to be bad.

[Alan T]

And just rereading the PM to make sure I don't miss anything.. You ovbiously have a quarters that is simply a room. As it referred to both your "room" and your "quarters" in the PM.

[path12]

Well, it's your word against mine and unfortunately for me you got the first accusation in which always helps.

But to address your concerns above:

1) I know I'm not KGB
2) I got no PM saying you came to my room, much less had me repeat that statement, which makes me think you're making it up.
3) Ergo, I know you must be KGB and wanted to frame me today for some reason. All I can do is pass my armor, which protects against night kills and lynches I believe to a trusted player in order to try and clear my name.

That makes perfect sense to me also, and leaves no possibility where you are not bad either. So I'm also certain that you have to be bad.

But like I said, it's a helluva frame and play and I give you kudos for that. It does always help to point the finger first. You guys must either have the merc pinpointed or turned and be close to winning.

[Alan T]

Well, it's your word against mine and unfortunately for me you got the first accusation in which always helps.

But to address your concerns above:

1) I know I'm not KGB
2) I got no PM saying you came to my room, much less had me repeat that statement, which makes me think you're making it up.
3) Ergo, I know you must be KGB and wanted to frame me today for some reason. All I can do is pass my armor, which protects against night kills and lynches I believe to a trusted player in order to try and clear my name.

That makes perfect sense to me also, and leaves no possibility where you are not bad either. So I'm also certain that you have to be bad.

But like I said, it's a helluva frame and play and I give you kudos for that. It does always help to point the finger first. You guys must either have the merc pinpointed or turned and be close to winning.

I don't know about all of that, but it does help when I'm telling the truth for me to know that you aren't. The big thing for me though is I am very curious to see who tries to save you. Do you have enough numbers that your team mates can sacrifice you and be ok, or will they try to save you and risk exposing themselves when the truth is out there?

I'm already looking hard at Molly murphy who voted for me when I stated you were my target before I even said much else. If she isn't a wolf, then you must be loving that she came to your aid like that. Otherwise I'm still trying to piece together who your other wolves are. I hope this vote will help show that.

[Barkeep49]

I'm sorry if I wasn't clear for my reasoning. However, there is now clearly a better target out there. While Alan has struck me as fishy from the start, I think he'd do a better job of wasting the lie detector if he were KGB so I'll go ahead and

Vote path

[Barkeep49]

To clarify:

Unvote cronin
Vote path

[molson]

I should have mentioned the lie detector only works on statements that were made prior to it being received.

What crappy technology.

[Alan T]

What crappy technology.

Its 1986, what do you want? ;)

[Poli]

Alan, I looked through the thread as well, and didn't find anything other than ardent's statements. I hate to say it, but I think the device is not much use at this point.
I didn't look. I was at work, and didn't have time to comb them. Besides, I felt my statements were worthwhile.

[Lathum]

current vote count


St. Cronin 1 ITC (391)
Barkeep 1 AE (396)
MollyMurphy 1 chiefrum (412)
AlaNT- 2 mollyMurphy (455), path12 (467)
Path12 4 AlaNT (465) St. Cronin (466), beargrowlz ( 468), barkeep ( 494)

Not voted

Molson, Saldana

[Poli]

Unvote Barkeep
Vote Path

I submitted this:



With the idea that if he was a wolf, this would be false, he would know I wasnt a wolf. If he was a good guy, then Lathum couldn't possibly know his thoughts and it likely would be true.

Well when I submitted the test, it came back false, Path was lying. So he doesn't think I am a wolf, which leads me to believe he must be one.

This is where my vote will stay until he dies or I die. You can choose to believe me or not..

Wow. Wish I had this power in the superhero game. Vote forthcoming.

[Poli]

Unvote barkeep.

Vote Path