WW Small Game IX- The Cold War !! game over CIA win

[Lathum]

Now taking signups for the next werewolf game. The theme is russian spies and the cold war. This is a typical werewolf game with some items thrown in for flavor, easy for beginers.

Since the game will coincide with spring break and the NCAA tournament I can take more people then the average small game, there is room for between 15-18 people. Anxiety isn't gonna begin his next game for a bit so this may be the only game in town.

There could be so historical innacuricies in this game, please don't bust my balls about it. Roles will go out sometime between sunday and monday depending on how quick we fill up. Day one will end Monday at 9:00 PM unless a change is needed.

Please feel free to PM me with any questions you may have.

[Lathum]

This is my first shot at a slightly more complex game so be patient with me.

1. AlanT
2. Barkeep-lynched day 5- cia agent
3. NTNDeacon- lynched day one- cia agent
4. Chief Rum- lynched day 4- mercenary
5. Path12- lynched day 3- KGB spy
6. Daddytorgo- killed night 1- technical officer
7. ImTheCrew-killed night 4- CIA agent
8. St Cronin
9. Molson
10. beargrowlz- killed night 5- cia agent
11. bulletsponge- lynched day 2- night watchman
12. Ardent- lynched day 6- cia agent
13. Molly Murphy
14. Narcizo- killed night 2- cia agent
15. Saldana

[Lathum]

It’s 1986 and the cold war is reaching its apex. Mikhail Gorbachev has just come into power. New weapons and technology are appearing everyday and tension is high as citizens fear world war three could be upon us.

The US government possesses secrets that the Soviet government would kill and has killed to possess. Most recently an elite special ops team was intercepted on a recon mission along the border of Finland. All member of the team were tortured and killed.

Top level CIA members were shaken by this since the mission was classified top secret. The only people that had knowledge of this mission were the members of the specials op’s unit that the team was comprised of. You are all members of this team but it is obvious there are spies among you!!

You have already lost valuable members of your team but it is a matter of national security that you find out who the traitors are!

Rules-
Each day players vote for one person to be removed from the unit, the player with the most votes is branded a traitor and executed.

Voting deadline is 9:00 PM EST.

All night actions are due by 9:00 AM EST.

Quoting of PM's is forbidden

Roles will be revealed upon players death.

rules are subject to change in case I overlooked something.



Roles-

Traitors- You is undercover agents intent on destroying the US government. The members of the unit you have infiltrated suspect your presence. Your mission is to now assassinate all members of the unit, steal all the information you can and return to your homeland a hero. You must select who carries out night actions.

Mercenary- You has no loyalties. You are here on a US government contract which will soon expire. You are a skilled fighter. Part of your contract is you have to appear to be an ordinary member of the unit. Whoever finds you first with the right price will gain your next contract.

The Negotiator- You handles any mercenary contracts. Once per night you may seek out a player to see if they are the mercenary and offer them a contract.

Night watchman- Each night you select a player whose door you stand guard outside of. That night no one will enter that room and no one will leave.

Technical officer- You are skilled at surveillance. Each night you may select a player to inspect and see if they have been in contact with the KGB.

The Captain- Once per game you can change the outcome of a lynch vote and order someone else to be lynched.


ITEMS- There are items available in the game. Players will randomly start with items or find them at random. Players with night actions may choose to bypass their night action with for a chance to receive an item. Players may choose to pass these items if they like. All items are single use unless otherwise specified. There may be more then one of a particular item.

Sensor- Set this up on your door at night to alert you of intruders. If the sensor goes off you give yourself a fighting chance to survive.

Phone bug- Plant this in someone’s phone to listen in on their messages. If you posses this item you can choose a player and listen to any PM they send in during the night phase.

Skeleton Key- use this to enter a players room. This may be used to enter during the day to search their belongings ( and possibly steal them) or at night to see if they are in bed where they should be.

Inferred Sensor- This allows you to peek into the hallway at night and identify one person at random who is in the hallway.

Body Amour- This will give you a chance to survive an attack. No need to activate this item, you will always have it on until it is needed.

THERE MAY BE OTHER ITEMS INTRODUCED DURING THE GAME

[Lorena]

vote lathum

oops, i guess i can't vote for the gm... rats!!

in

[ntndeacon]

dagnabit!..I was planning to sit out but this sounds too fun.

sigh

in

[Chief Rum]

lol...I was thinking of a break, too. But I love spy stuff. In.

[SnDvls]

sounds like a fun game...I would have loved to play, but I'll be in Florida @ Disneyworld with the family from the 14th to the 21st.

I'll enjoy catching up and reading it when I get back though

[path12]

Heh. I was thinking of sitting one out too. I should know better.

Inn.

[DaddyTorgo]

aaargh.

in

[Blade6119]

Damn, im like sndvls...i really want to, but ill be on spring break. Do me proud DC

[ImTheCrew]

in

[LoneStarGirl]

i would play, but i have family coming into town monday-friday.

sorry lathum

[st.cronin]

In

[Bek]

indeed it does sound fun and would be a good game to start back up on, but as many others it seems i will be on spring break.

[molson]

It's been a long time, so...

In

[Lorena]

Damn, im like sndvls...i really want to, but ill be on spring break. Do me proud DC

Heh, alrightee... no pressure right? ;) I'll try my best.

BTW, nice to have ya back molson!

[beargrowlz]

I think I'd like to try this one.

In.

[Lathum]

I think I'd like to try this one.

In.

sweet!!

welcome

[bulletsponge]

Just bring it! im in!

[Poli]

I'm in, unless anyone already in objects. I will gracefully bow out in that case.

[Narcizo]

I'd like to play but if anyone has a problem with the time difference and think it will unbalance the game too much in favour of the villagers if I'm a wolf (I won't be able to use my vote to save a fellow wolf) then I'll understand and sit it out.

[Lathum]

I'd like to play but if anyone has a problem with the time difference and think it will unbalance the game too much in favour of the villagers if I'm a wolf (I won't be able to use my vote to save a fellow wolf) then I'll understand and sit it out.

I wouldn't worry about that, it's a pretty rare occurance. If you want in I would love to have you.

[DaddyTorgo]

don't let narcizo play. He's too good. LOL

[hoopsguy]

Narcizo, glad to see you getting into the mix again and hope it becomes at least a semi-regular basis.

[saldana]

things have settled down a bit at work for me,so i will play this one

in

[Narcizo]

don't let narcizo play. He's too good. LOL

Not when Blade isn't playing so I can't leech all his ideas and present them as my own.

[Lorena]

Where's my PM dammit?!


















;)

[DaddyTorgo]

and mine! LOL

[Narcizo]

I'm going to need a role or I'm going to have to make a day one vote without knowing anything. Which will make a huge difference to my day one voting "strategy".

*Rolls trusty 15-sided dice*

Vote #5

[Alan T]

I'm going to need a role or I'm going to have to make a day one vote without knowing anything. Which will make a huge difference to my day one voting "strategy".

*Rolls trusty 15-sided dice*

Vote #5

You could be like DaddyTorgo and check in as a villager before receiving your role!

[molson]

It's a twist! No one gets their roles until the game is over.

[Barkeep49]

It's a twist! No one gets their roles until the game is over.
That's actually not a bad premise for a game.

[Poli]

Just what I was thinking.

Vote Barkeep. :)

[ntndeacon]

or that roles change each day

[Lathum]

[QUOTE=Lathum;1414727]

. Roles will go out sometime between sunday and monday depending on how quick we fill up. QUOTE]

:mad:

[molson]

[QUOTE=Lathum;1414727]

. Roles will go out sometime between sunday and monday depending on how quick we fill up. QUOTE]

:mad:

I'll let it slide as long as there's no historical inacuracies in the game.

[Lathum]

LOL.

[Alan T]

I'll let it slide as long as there's no historical inacuracies in the game.

This really made me laugh this morning.

[Lathum]

Random.org is currently doing it's thing

[Alan T]

Random.org is currently doing it's thing

I hope random.org likes you alot more than it likes me

[ImTheCrew]

how do you guys get random.org to randomize things, all i can find is information on it.

[path12]

There's a random number generator link on there that can give you sequences and such.

[Lathum]

roles are sent.

you will get a seperate PM if you are receiving an item

[Lathum]

items are sent. If you choose to pass an item send me a PM with who you want to pass it to.

[ntndeacon]

kill all of the commie traitors!

[molson]

Red-blooded American checking in.

Just to let everyone know, I'm in the mountain time zone, so 90% of my activity will take place within an hour or two before and after the 9PM deadline. So I'll probably be mostly quiet until then.

[Lorena]

Got my PM

vote saldana

Eh.... your 5 minutes are up.

[st.cronin]

Red-blooded American checking in.

Just to let everyone know, I'm in the mountain time zone, so 90% of my activity will take place within an hour or two before and after the 9PM deadline. So I'll probably be mostly quiet until then.

Moutain Time Zone representin'!

[Poli]

Got my earpiece and sunglasses. I'm ready to serve and protect.

[Lorena]

Central Time Zone bitches!!

[DaddyTorgo]

checking in. Got my PM. No idea what it says yet (that way I can't be biased one way or another).

[DaddyTorgo]

let's smoke out them commie traitors and then go home and eat apple pie and download some good ole-fashioned american-porn on our high-speed cable modems with our top of the line Cray's, hmm? who's with me!

[path12]

let's smoke out them commie traitors and then go home and eat apple pie and download some good ole-fashioned american-porn on our high-speed cable modems with our top of the line Cray's, hmm? who's with me!

In the 50's? Dude, that sounds like commie equipment there.

VOTE DADDY TORGO

Us true Americans will be watching Uncle Miltie on our 10 inch Philcos.

[path12]

Oops, just looked at the rules. 1986 eh. Still no intarwebs ya red. ;)

[MollyMurphy]

I will be travelling for work over the next 3 days. I am heading out now for the airport and won't land until 10:30 EST, so I won't be able to get back on before the deadline.

Vote NTNDeacon

[DaddyTorgo]

awwww. that's what I get for not reading the date of the setting well enough.


ah well. No interwebs for us to play on. We can still eat Apple Pie and watch Family Ties while the reds are experiencing the uncertainty of the gorby years (as an aside I almost went to a lecture of his in boston a few years ago but I had to work and couldn't get out of it.)

maybe we can work up some ASCI porn, hmm?

[ntndeacon]

Vote Chief Vod...I mean Rum

We all know what he really drinks. slipping off to drink that Smirnoff crap.

[bulletsponge]

checking in, got my role.

Vote Chubby



is chubby playing?

[Poli]

Vote Barkeep
I'm at work, let's see if I can get this to work. I'm voting this way, because I know BK wants to vote me. :) Just kidding, you're the man, BK.

[Lathum]

ok. so thats 2 votes for people who aren't even playing

[ntndeacon]

ohhh we have to vote for people actually playing? i wanted to change my vote to Lathum. :D

[Poli]

Rats, you lucked out, BK. :)

[DaddyTorgo]

but...but...i like everyone in this game. There's no one I really want to put a random D1 vote on.

As is usually the case with me and D1's, I will wait a little and see if I can gleam anything from others checking in. I might have picked up something from one person earlier. Possibly. But maybe I'm over-analyzing.

[DaddyTorgo]

what happens if we kill the GM?

[Poli]

Vote st. cronin
How is that? :)

[molson]

what happens if we kill the GM?

Total....Anarchy

[molson]

[QUOTE=DaddyTorgo;1416588]but...but...i like everyone in this game. There's no one I really want to put a random D1 vote on.

[QUOTE]

The only fake, baseless suspicion I can come up with so far is for St. Cronin, who was the mod in the one previous werewolf game I played. We lost, and it must have been his fault.

[Narcizo]

There's not going to be anything for me here today. If I live till tomorrow you will have an extensive 20-post analysis of the minuatia of day one.

As is "traditional" with my nightfall votes (ie I did it last time) I'm going to lay a second vote on someone on the first day to stir things up and cause trouble while I'm gone. Otherwise I won't have anything to analyze. So I have four or five guys and they're all experienced players - oh dear. Following my reasoning in the Big City I shall follow the lead of the other person who can't modify their vote and

Vote NTNDeacon

Which sucks a lot as he bought it early in the Big City. But what can you do?

[Narcizo]

what happens if we kill the GM?

What if there's no commies to kill? McCarthyism in action.

Having set myself up for a lynch, on a serious note what do people think are going to be the proportions in this game? 3 or 4 wolves. Normally I'd say 3 but the amount of trendy gadgets that seem to be knocking about (of which I have none, of course) seems to weigh the game in favour of the villagers. There is this mercenary bloke which, I guess, is a slight advantage to the wolfies. What do our esteemed experienced hands think about this? How many bad guys are we looking for?

[Alan T]

Vote Dodgerchick

Seems pretty eager to vote out Saldana who hasn't had a chance to even play for a while on day 1!

I don't have any items or role that can tell me anything about anyone, so mainly a day 1 vote based on trying to remove poor Saldana

[Alan T]

Oops, just looked at the rules. 1986 eh. Still no intarwebs ya red. ;)


Totally unrelated to the game, but I definitly was on compuserve's network in 1986 and arpanet existed then too! :)

[DaddyTorgo]

narcizo

I like what you're doing with placing a 2nd vote to stir up discussion and get something to analyze. It's not enough to move you into the "good" category or anything at this point, but it's a point in your favor I suppose, and it's nice to see someone with an actual D1 strategy.

[Narcizo]

I'm suspecting that it was a flourishing hotbed of porn though.

[Narcizo]

Um that should be a quote of Alan T and "wasn't" D'oh!

[ntndeacon]

Already the forces of Communism are up to their tricks. two votes on me already? This must cease and desist! you have to like good lawyer shows.... Like L.A. Law

[DaddyTorgo]

Totally unrelated to the game, but I definitly was on compuserve's network in 1986 and arpanet existed then too! :)


mmmmm...ARPAnet. Compuserve...LOL...we had a compuserve account way back in the day. That was the first time I got in trouble for using the internet for em...questionable means.

OT of the game also: how's things Alan? Baby ok? Lady getting better??

[Narcizo]

Totally unrelated to the game, but I definitly was on compuserve's network in 1986 and arpanet existed then too! :)

I'm suspecting that it wasn't a flourishing hotbed of porn though.

There that's better. Carry on. :)

[path12]

Totally unrelated to the game, but I definitly was on compuserve's network in 1986 and arpanet existed then too! :)


I was busy totally diggin' my new Amiga! Mean 18 FTW, baby! :)

[DaddyTorgo]

I think i've told this story before on the board, but my earliest memories of getting online involve lots of sneaking down to the study after my parents went to sleep and wrapping the modem in a sweatshirt so you couldn't hear the dialing noise from it, to dial in to AOL using either free trials, or occasionally a sub-account of my best-friend (who had parents who were more permissive). Aaaah those were the days.

[molson]

Since one person has two votes already, I'll give someone else a second vote. It could give us crap to analyze later on. I always think the more information that's available, the better chance at getting to the truth.

Vote St. Cronin

[Poli]

In 1986? Hmm, I was in 5th grade. Grand Bay, Alabama. The only thing I was on was the bus.

[Lorena]

Vote Dodgerchick

Seems pretty eager to vote out Saldana who hasn't had a chance to even play for a while on day 1!

I don't have any items or role that can tell me anything about anyone, so mainly a day 1 vote based on trying to remove poor Saldana

Uhhh... okay. I'll let it slide.... I GUESS. But you seem to be attaching yourself to saldana from the getgo. I'm pretty sure this will not be the only vote against me so wayta "hide" your vote.

[molson]

I got kicked off an AOL chat room in 1993 for being inappropriate.

[beargrowlz]

Checking in and got my role.

[Alan T]

mmmmm...ARPAnet. Compuserve...LOL...we had a compuserve account way back in the day. That was the first time I got in trouble for using the internet for em...questionable means.

OT of the game also: how's things Alan? Baby ok? Lady getting better??

She's still sedated, critical condition in the ICU. She has been having positive signs with the amount of fluids she's been removing the past few days and her breathing is a hair better. The Doctor today wants to try to see if she is stable enough to go get a cat scan today. They have been worried about other things such as blood clots, abcesses and a sinus infection among other things that they have been unable to check for because of her instability.

I'm actually heading that way with them in about 15 min, so no idea when I'll be back.

[Alan T]

Uhhh... okay. I'll let it slide.... I GUESS. But you seem to be attaching yourself to saldana from the getgo. I'm pretty sure this will not be the only vote against me so wayta "hide" your vote.


Can't really call it hiding a vote when I come out voting for someone new on day 1 when there isn't more than 1 person with more than 1 vote and giving a detailed reason why.

Basically only bad players want experienced players voted out on day 1! And Saldana is one of the better players to have on your side if he's a good guy. So without any evidence of someone being bad, I definitly wouldn't be voting for him on day 1!

Now days 2+ is a different story. Plus the poor guy doesn't deserve yet another day 1 death.

[Narcizo]

So Alan (or anyone else with experience playing here for that matter) who would you say are better wolves than they are villagers?

[st.cronin]

I was lynched day 1 last game, fools. That did not go well for the village.

[path12]

So far I've got:

Ntndeacon 2 -- MollyMurphy(55), Narcizo(68)
St.Cronin 2 -- Ardent(65), Molson(80)
Saldana 1 -- Dodgerchick(47)
DaddyTorgo 1 -- path12(53)
Chief Rum 1 -- Ntndeacon(57)
Dodgerchick 1 -- AlanT(70)

Not voted: Chief Rum, ITC, St.Cronin, Beargrowlz, Bullet, Saldana, DaddyTorgo

[path12]

So Alan (or anyone else with experience playing here for that matter) who would you say are better wolves than they are villagers?

Hard question to answer, most people who are good wolves tend to be pretty good villagers also. I'd say the top wolf players in here are Alan, Chief, Ardent and ntn. I guess I've got a decent record as one also.

[st.cronin]

So Alan (or anyone else with experience playing here for that matter) who would you say are better wolves than they are villagers?

Here's my opinion, others may disagree:

1. AlanT better wolf than villager
2. Dodgerchick not sure
3. NTNDeacon much better as a wolf
4. Chief Rum better as a villager
5. Path12 not sure
6. Daddytorgo better as a wolf
7. ImTheCrew not sure
8. St Cronin
9. Molson not sure
10. beargrowlz not sure
11. bulletsponge not sure
12. Ardent not sure - likely better as a wolf
13. Molly Murphy not sure
14. Narcizo not sure
15. Saldana better as a wolf

[st.cronin]

vote ntndeacon

[path12]

So Alan (or anyone else with experience playing here for that matter) who would you say are better wolves than they are villagers?

You know, the more I think about this the more wolfish it seems.......it's like you're trying to position yourself outside the realm of the wolves by asking the question.

UNVOTE DADDYTORGO
VOTE NARCIZO

It's enough of a flag for me for a day 1.

[Lorena]

Can't really call it hiding a vote when I come out voting for someone new on day 1 when there isn't more than 1 person with more than 1 vote and giving a detailed reason why.

Basically only bad players want experienced players voted out on day 1! And Saldana is one of the better players to have on your side if he's a good guy. So without any evidence of someone being bad, I definitly wouldn't be voting for him on day 1!

Oh my god alan, this really fucking pissed me off. Thanks for making this game my last; I knew I was a bad player but damn, you don't have to rub in it.

unvote saldana
vote dogerchick

It's so weird, there are people I despise when I play this game but love 'em outside of werewolf.

I'm done with this game I knew I shouldn't have come back.

[Lathum]

I think alan met bad as in wolfish

[beargrowlz]

I think alan met bad as in wolfish

Can't speak for Alan but I too read it as "bad guy" players - as in wolves.

[st.cronin]

You know, the more I think about this the more wolfish it seems.......it's like you're trying to position yourself outside the realm of the wolves by asking the question.

UNVOTE DADDYTORGO
VOTE NARCIZO

It's enough of a flag for me for a day 1.

I don't think there's any way Narcizo is "bad." His play is bold, but doesn't seem remotely wolfish to me.

[Blade6119]

Here's my opinion, others may disagree:

1. AlanT better wolf than villager
2. Dodgerchick not sure
3. NTNDeacon much better as a wolf
4. Chief Rum better as a villager
5. Path12 not sure
6. Daddytorgo better as a wolf
7. ImTheCrew not sure
8. St Cronin
9. Molson not sure
10. beargrowlz not sure
11. bulletsponge not sure
12. Ardent not sure - likely better as a wolf
13. Molly Murphy not sure
14. Narcizo not sure
15. Saldana better as a wolf

ooooooooo, do me do me! :p

[st.cronin]

ooooooooo, do me do me! :p

Blade6119 about once a game, he has a brilliant insight

[bulletsponge]

Vote Saldana

[molson]

There's only one bad player here that I'm aware of. (It's me)

[ImTheCrew]

There's only one bad player here that I'm aware of. (It's me)


An All Blooded American Checking In, no molson you are not alone trust me.
Im the worse ive seen:)

[st.cronin]

Vote Saldana

Didn't want to let this vote go unnoticed.

[st.cronin]

ImTheCrew, editing posts is not allowed in werewolf.

[ImTheCrew]

i know cronin i hit the button accidently sorry

[ImTheCrew]

using Random.org for day 1 vote

VOTE NTN

[saldana]

wow...i havent even checked in yet (jack armstrong, all american boy checking in, btw) and i have gotten 2 votes and started a fight.

my first thought would have been to vote for narcizo, since he was the first person to cast a second vote, but bulletsponge's little vote and run thing pretty much locks me in place to

vote bulletsponge

[LoneStarGirl]

I know I am sitting this one out but.... Dont you say this about once a game? You over react a lot. You might be too high strung for Werewolf. You should play more while intoxicated so you can be more relaxed... I think that is how NTN got to be such a good wolf. He plays drunk. :D

Oh my god alan, this really fucking pissed me off. Thanks for making this game my last; I knew I was a bad player but damn, you don't have to rub in it.

unvote saldana
vote dogerchick

It's so weird, there are people I despise when I play this game but love 'em outside of werewolf.

I'm done with this game I knew I shouldn't have come back.

[path12]

I like playing with DC. I think she's a better player than she thinks she is.

[saldana]

and fwiw dodgerchick, assuming you come back and read this, i would be willing to wager anything you want that alan meant 'bad' as in 'wolf', not 'bad' as in 'not a good ww player'

its an argument we often have on day ones, that there are certain people that you dont vote for because their upside can be so much. I for one will never vote for blade, barkeep, hoops, or lathum on day one, and there is a long list of others that i would only if there were a really good case against them. i am apparently on alan's list, which is all he was saying

[st.cronin]

This is what I have:

Ntndeacon 4 -- MollyMurphy (55), Narcizo (68), st.cronin (92), ITC (106)
St.Cronin 2 -- Ardent (65), Molson (80)
Dodgerchick 1 -- Dodgerchick (94)
Narcizo 1 -- path12 (93)
Chief Rum 1 -- Ntndeacon (57)
Dodgerchick 1 -- AlanT (70)
Saldana 1 -- bulletsponge (100)
bulletsponge 1 -- saldana (107)

no votes: Chief Rum, Beargrowlz, DaddyTorgo

I also agree that Alan was accusing DC of being a wolf, not a poor player. I think DC is a fine player.

[beargrowlz]

This is what I have:

Ntndeacon 4 -- MollyMurphy (55), Narcizo (68), st.cronin (92), ITC (106)
St.Cronin 2 -- Ardent (65), Molson (80)
Dodgerchick 1 -- Dodgerchick (94)
Narcizo 1 -- path12 (93)
Chief Rum 1 -- Ntndeacon (57)
Dodgerchick 1 -- AlanT (70)
Saldana 1 -- bulletsponge (100)
bulletsponge 1 -- saldana (107)


What are the numbers in parenthesis?

[st.cronin]

I'm not happy about voting for ntn, but being second I can't really afford to vote for anybody else. Bulletsponge and ITC's votes jump out at me as highly questionable. Those two have really pinged my radar.

[st.cronin]

What are the numbers in parenthesis?

That's the post # where the player cast the vote.

[beargrowlz]

Ahh, thanks.

[ImTheCrew]

I'm not happy about voting for ntn, but being second I can't really afford to vote for anybody else. Bulletsponge and ITC's votes jump out at me as highly questionable. Those two have really pinged my radar.
lol no matter who i vote for it is supisucious so i used random.org this time and it still is, wow!:)

[path12]

You've got DC listed twice with one vote.

[path12]

lol no matter who i vote for it is supisucious so i used random.org this time and it still is, wow!:)

Ain't werewolf great? ;)

[path12]

Have a meeting and then commute, out until after deadline. God Bless America!

[molson]

its an argument we often have on day ones, that there are certain people that you dont vote for because their upside can be so much. I for one will never vote for blade, barkeep, hoops, or lathum on day one, and there is a long list of others that i would only if there were a really good case against them. i am apparently on alan's list, which is all he was saying

This makes perfect sense, but the one thing that annoyed me in my previous WW game was how much player reputation and what happened in prior games came into the discussions. I guess that kind of wrinkle can be interesting once you've been around the block, but it would be a purer kind of game if everyone had an annonymous, maybe using an alisas. It'd be interesting to try once (though I'm sure some people would still stand out).

[Alan T]

Oh my god alan, this really fucking pissed me off. Thanks for making this game my last; I knew I was a bad player but damn, you don't have to rub in it.

unvote saldana
vote dogerchick

It's so weird, there are people I despise when I play this game but love 'em outside of werewolf.

I'm done with this game I knew I shouldn't have come back.

DC, Sorry if I wasn't very clear, I was in a rush in typing earlier. I definitly did mean bad as in evil, not bad as in poor. I try to never personally insult people in these games, and by no means meant to here. I apologize if you felt that way as I do enjoy playing with you.

I simply meant your move meant bad (wolfish). sorry if it hurt your feelings, that was not my intent.

[saldana]

This makes perfect sense, but the one thing that annoyed me in my previous WW game was how much player reputation and what happened in prior games came into the discussions. I guess that kind of wrinkle can be interesting once you've been around the block, but it would be a purer kind of game if everyone had an annonymous, maybe using an alisas. It'd be interesting to try once (though I'm sure some people would still stand out).


we have had that discussion before, and it is pretty much unavoidable when you have played in as many games as some people have. there is a converse though...there are some people that will always vote for me...dubb and i have screwed each other so many times that we vote for each other pretty much exclusively on day one


the anonymous game would be a very fun game that i may pursue further, unless you claim rights to it.

[st.cronin]

lol no matter who i vote for it is supisucious so i used random.org this time and it still is, wow!:)

There are some circumstances where a random vote is ok. When there are two players with multiple votes, that's not one of them. Especially when your vote lands on one of those players.

I don't know what to think about ntn, though, its kind of an unusual bandwagon.

[beargrowlz]

Hrrm, probably over-analyzing this, but in assuming the KGB agents can talk to each other via PM, I think it would make sense for them to combine their efforts and remove a true CIA agent through vioting, making their work easier at night.

So assuming that, I'm leery of MollyMurphy, Narcizo, ITC and St. Cronin, all for going after NTN. However, NTN did make the jingoistic, over the top commie hunting statement to start the game off - which would be rather KGBish IMHO.

I buy St. Cronin's argument for why he's voting for NTN, he's in second and if he doesn't get someone else arrested he's going to the gallows. MollyMurphy listed no reason, which piques my curiosity. ITC's use of random.org, while I suppose is possible, doesn't seem very likely to me. Still, it's possible.

As for Narcizo, it's possible that he was just casting a second vote to stir discussion, but it is just as likely that he was doing so in concert with other KGBers in order to eliminate a true CIA agent in NTN.

So again, like I said, I am probably over-analyzing this, but to me it comes down to whether I think there are agents acting in concert with each other, or whether NTN was trying to appear extra-patriotic in an attempt to remove suspicion from himself.

I've kind of eliminated St. Cronin from earning my vote because I buy his reason for voting for NTN.

Anyone know for sure if KGB agents can Pm each other prior to votes? The WW standard rules say they can but this game doesn't seem to indicate one way or the other.

[st.cronin]

Anyone know for sure if KGB agents can Pm each other prior to votes? The WW standard rules say they can but this game doesn't seem to indicate one way or the other.

There have been a few games where they couldn't, or had limited ability, but its the exception rather than the rule.

Anything to add, Lathum?

[Lathum]

The KGB agents have full PM privledges

[beargrowlz]

Well, following my train of thought to its logical conclusion, given that the KGB agents can PM each other and orchestrate a first day vote to remove a true CIA agent, I feel compelled to vote for either MollyMurphy, ITC, Marcizo or St. Cronin -- despite the fact that NTN is seemingly a good choice for removal due to his over the top "lets kill all the commies" statement to start the game.

Interestingly enough though, none of the people who voted for him listed that as a reason.

Well, I have to vote for someone and I'd prefer to make a vote based on reason rather than a guess.

I'll rule out St.Cronin because I bought his reason for voting for NTN. Voting for ITC, MollyMurphy or Narcizo at this point will accomplish nothing, as no one else has voted for them.

That basically leaves NTN.

At this point I think all four of them are as equally likely to be KGB based on the information in their posts (or lack thereof).

Given that there is only one of them that a vote by me can actually remove, and because I think his post at the start of the game was a ploy, I'll be voting NTNdeacon.

I'm not real comfortable with that decision, but given how everyone else has voted and the real possibility NTN is KGB, that's the only rational choice I have atm.




Vote ntndeacon

[Alan T]

So.. I've had a long day.. but let me make sure I get this right.. Molly, ITC, Narcizo and St.Cronin are all suspicious for voting NTN..

So your vote will be Ntn.

I think there is a space/time flux with your reasoning and your vote. Either your reasons for voting Ntn make sense and likewise others voting him would make sense to you.. or your voting for one of them for voting him makes sense. :)

[st.cronin]

So.. I've had a long day.. but let me make sure I get this right.. Molly, ITC, Narcizo and St.Cronin are all suspicious for voting NTN..

So your vote will be Ntn.

FWIW, it actually made sense to me. :)

[molson]

The only truly reasoned voted on day one are cast by spies, right? The closer the vote, the better.

[beargrowlz]

So.. I've had a long day.. but let me make sure I get this right.. Molly, ITC, Narcizo and St.Cronin are all suspicious for voting NTN..

So your vote will be Ntn.

I think there is a space/time flux with your reasoning and your vote. Either your reasons for voting Ntn make sense and likewise others voting him would make sense to you.. or your voting for one of them for voting him makes sense. :)

Yeah. They're not mutually exclusive though.

I think there are good reasons to vote for NTN - his post earlier with the kill all the commies thing.

But I also think it'd be good strategy for all the KGB agents to gang up and take out a CIA operative on the first night, and they have the PM ability to do so - so anyone (myself included now) who voted for NTN would be suspect.

Given my reasoning, that would make 6 people suspect if I voted for NTN (Cronin, Molly, ITC, NTN, Narcizo and me). I;m certainly not going to vote to execute myself, and I buy cronin's reasoning for voting for NTN.

That leaves four. As three of them have no votes and 1 of them has 4 votes, and my vote would lead to his execution if I vote for him and my vote would be wasted by voting for the other three, that was the deciding factor.

Of course, i could be completely wrong. ;)

[beargrowlz]

The only truly reasoned voted on day one are cast by spies, right? The closer the vote, the better.

Well, I'm new, and as I said, I may be overanalyzing it. But I assumed most people were reading each other's posts trying to cull some reason to vote one way or the other from them.

It may very well be most first day votes are random. I'd hate to think so, but I certainly don't have the experiential knowldge of the game to argue with it.



Cheers.

[molson]

But I also think it'd be good strategy for all the KGB agents to gang up and take out a CIA operative on the first night, and they have the PM ability to do so - so anyone (myself included now) who voted for NTN would be suspect.



It would be a good strategy for spies to orchestrate a landslide vote on day 1 from which we learn nothing (or at least stand by and allow one to develop). Why would you want to help with that?

Giving someone a first vote isn't necessarily useless - people can and do change their votes quickly as we get to the deadline.

[st.cronin]

bg, fwiw, there have been plenty of times where there was all sorts of chaos at the deadline, and what looked like a pointless vote (which you're afraid of making by voting for somebody like ITC or MB) suddenly became crucial. Going against my self interest here, but I would encourage you to vote for who you think is bad, rather than worry about "wasting" your vote.

[Poli]

Cronin, fwiw, the only reason I went with you (after barkeep) is I haven't got my hat yet. :)

[Alan T]

Yeah. They're not mutually exclusive though.

I think there are good reasons to vote for NTN - his post earlier with the kill all the commies thing.

But I also think it'd be good strategy for all the KGB agents to gang up and take out a CIA operative on the first night, and they have the PM ability to do so - so anyone (myself included now) who voted for NTN would be suspect.

Given my reasoning, that would make 6 people suspect if I voted for NTN (Cronin, Molly, ITC, NTN, Narcizo and me). I;m certainly not going to vote to execute myself, and I buy cronin's reasoning for voting for NTN.

That leaves four. As three of them have no votes and 1 of them has 4 votes, and my vote would lead to his execution if I vote for him and my vote would be wasted by voting for the other three, that was the deciding factor.

Of course, i could be completely wrong. ;)


Well whatever its worth.. I usually find that more often than not I'm wrong on the first day.. Also the odds are in a random pick more likely you will get a good guy than a bad guy due to sheer numbers of good guys. So in a situation where alot of people pile on one person in what supposedly are random votes or votes based on very little insight due to not much information being out there are 4/5 of the time a poor vote.

Now lets say everyone gangs up on 2 different people. You still are less likely to hit a bad guy than good.. but now your odds are a bit better to hit a bad guy in one of the two people. Perhaps not the one you voted out, but maybe one of them. It could be useful down the road knowing who saved who is just out of sheer luck one of them turn out bad.

Or option #3 that usually is a good option is to just vote Lathum on day 1. Unfortunatly that does not apply here.

[Lathum]

Or option #3 that usually is a good option is to just vote Lathum on day 1. Unfortunatly that does not apply here.

:mad:

[Lathum]

Ntndeacon 5 -- MollyMurphy (55), Narcizo (68), st.cronin (92), ITC (106) Beargrowlz (127)
St.Cronin 2 -- Ardent (65), Molson (80)
Dodgerchick 2 -- Dodgerchick (94), AlanT (70)
Narcizo 1 -- path12 (93)
Chief Rum 1 -- Ntndeacon (57)
Saldana 1 -- bulletsponge (100)
bulletsponge 1 -- saldana (107)

no votes: Chief Rum, DaddyTorgo

can someone double check and confirm these totals.

[Poli]

Woah, DC voted for herself?

[beargrowlz]

bg, fwiw, there have been plenty of times where there was all sorts of chaos at the deadline, and what looked like a pointless vote (which you're afraid of making by voting for somebody like ITC or MB) suddenly became crucial. Going against my self interest here, but I would encourage you to vote for who you think is bad, rather than worry about "wasting" your vote.

Well, that makes sense.

If i do that, and disregard whether my vote will "count" or not, that cuts it down to Molly, ITC or Narcizo or St. cronin.

Cronin encouraging me to change my vote which could cause me to vote for him further amplifies my feeling that he's not KGB - either that or it's a very calculated and brilliant ploy to make me believe that he's clean. ;) In any case, I buy his explanation. So that rules him out.

I'm not very comfortable with Narcizo's explanation nor ITC's, but I'm extremely uncomfortable with Molly's - which was non-existent.

She doesn't have any votes, but that's how I'll go then.

unvote ntndeacon
vote mollymurphy

[ImTheCrew]

Coming out and pointing the finger at me so ill change my vote

UNVOTE NTN
VOTE ST CRONIN

[st.cronin]

Woah, DC voted for herself?

She had an ardent enthusiast moment.

[st.cronin]

Wow, just like that we're tied again, 3 each for me and ntn.

When will I learn to keep my mouth shut? :mad:

[Lathum]

Ntndeacon 3 -- MollyMurphy (55), Narcizo (68), st.cronin (92),
St.Cronin 3 -- Ardent (65), Molson (80),ITC (141)
MollyMurphy 1--Beargrowlz (140)
Dodgerchick 2 -- Dodgerchick (94), AlanT (70)
Narcizo 1 -- path12 (93)
Chief Rum 1 -- Ntndeacon (57)
Saldana 1 -- bulletsponge (100)
bulletsponge 1 -- saldana (107)

no votes: Chief Rum, DaddyTorgo
can someone double check and confirm these totals.

[Poli]

Sigh. :(

[st.cronin]

That's what I have, Lathum.

[Lathum]

10 minutes

[molson]

So what's the standard tiebreaking procedure?

[beargrowlz]

What happens in a tie?

[st.cronin]

Who knows, it used to oldest continuosly held vote, but that hasn't been the rule in some time.

[Lathum]

thats not made public

[Poli]

If it is, I'm sorry cronin.

[Alan T]

I don't like ties.. I dont like all the movement to tie things up.

unvote dodgerchick
vote ntndeacon

[Lathum]

deadline

[Alan T]

I think I would rather vote for Imthecrew right now if anyone wants to move to him with me before 9

[Alan T]

oh its 9 now.. my clock says 8.. ahh well

[beargrowlz]

Thanks Alan. I felt bad about what was going to happen to Cronin considering he gave me the advice.

[molson]

I don't like ties.. I dont like all the movement to tie things up.

unvote dodgerchick
vote ntndeacon

So why don't you like ties exactly?

[Alan T]

Thanks Alan. I felt bad about what was going to happen to Cronin considering he gave me the advice.

Yeah.. well last time I did this I ended up lynching the seer with my vote. So I dont have a good day 1 track record. I decided to vote for ntn for two reasons. I didnt like the late movement to save ntn from a landslide, and st.cronin I felt had been more involved in day 1. That isnt enough to keep me from voting someone on day 2, but its generally how I vote.

I really don't like ITC's play on day 1, and will give some leeway to you since you are new. I think people need to pick a point for a vote and stick to it unless some better arguement comes out.

[Alan T]

So why don't you like ties exactly?

Goes back to the old arguement whether or not the villagers should lynch someone every day. Some people disagree with it, but I do agree with it. That said, without knowing if ties = no lynch or tie = some other method of lynching, I didnt want to see a day 1 without any result for us to look at for voting records or what not.

So basically I put a big bullseye on my back for tommorrow because the odds say 80% chance I just lynched a good guy.

[beargrowlz]

Yeah.. well last time I did this I ended up lynching the seer with my vote.


Ouch.

[molson]

Goes back to the old arguement whether or not the villagers should lynch someone every day. Some people disagree with it, but I do agree with it. That said, without knowing if ties = no lynch or tie = some other method of lynching, I didnt want to see a day 1 without any result for us to look at for voting records or what not.



Ahhh - I didn't realize "no lynch" was an option.

[ImTheCrew]

so let me get this straight if i vote NTN 90% of people think its suspicous for not voting for him first, so i change it to someone that was in the 90% to get the rest off me and now that bites me too, WIN WIN EH?:)

[Lathum]

Ntndeacon 4 -- MollyMurphy (55), Narcizo (68), st.cronin (92), alanT (153)
St.Cronin 3 -- Ardent (65), Molson (80),ITC (141)
MollyMurphy 1--Beargrowlz (140)
Dodgerchick 1 -- Dodgerchick (94),
Narcizo 1 -- path12 (93)
Chief Rum 1 -- Ntndeacon (57)
Saldana 1 -- bulletsponge (100)
bulletsponge 1 -- saldana (107)

no votes: Chief Rum, DaddyTorgo


The unit gathers together and talks about all the discussion and late movement. It is clear there are several opininon about who could be the traitors in your unit. In the end NTNDeacon became the choice by the slimest of margins. He stoicely strode to the front of the room and said " I have always been willing to die for my country"

The commanding officer walks behind NTNDeacon and puts a single bullet in his head. A search of his quarters show no sigh of disloyalty to the USA, he was a CIA agent.

The commanding officer then tells the remaining members of the unit experemental technology will be arriving from Washington. It is called a silencer, it is a one time use item that allows the user to silence one person of their choice rendering their vote obsolete. Since we are testing this item for the government they want quick results so the item must be used tomorrow. The commanding officer will randomly pick one person to receive this item.

Night 1 has begun all actions due by 9:00 AM EST

[Alan T]

so let me get this straight if i vote NTN 90% of people think its suspicous for not voting for him first, so i change it to someone that was in the 90% to get the rest off me and now that bites me too, WIN WIN EH?:)

Eh, sometimes its not who you vote but how you vote it. Either way, like I said I'm sure people will have a reason to vote me tommorrow now.

[beargrowlz]

Good call Cronin.

[beargrowlz]

dola.

I mean in getting me to switch my vote. LOL.

[DaddyTorgo]

aaaargh! totally forgot till I was turning on my computer!!

i'd like to point out in my own defense that this is only the 2nd time I've ever missed a vote in WW (and the first time I was a villager too).

just got caught up in taking care of the niece and reading this book on nazikinder (children of high-ranking nazi's) and how they've dealt psychologically.

[DaddyTorgo]

fwiw...i feel fine about you at this point alan. and I believe I have something to go on tomorrow (assuming that person survives the night). I want to double-check something before I say anything though.

[Lathum]

I may have not been clear on the silencer item. This item basicly allows the user to counterfit another users vote. The counterfitted vote will not be known untill the final results.

[saldana]

alan, fwiw, i would have made the same move as you did concerning breaking the tie...i would have picked ntn before cronin, so you arent in my crosshairs.

i would really like to hear why bullet popped a vote off at me and then never said another word...that is definitely going earn my vote tomorrow, barring anything noteworthy during the night

[saldana]

dola, i have to go to a client meeting tomorrow, and wont be around for pretty much the entire day...i will be on in time for the vote though.

[path12]

I don't have a huge problem with a day 1 tiebreaker vote either, especially with the late run away from ntn. But I'm not one who puts a ton of stock into day 1's in general -- the wolves are usually spread out anyways early.

[path12]

Dola, unless one of them is gonna get voted out that is.

[path12]

Did Chief say he wasn't going to be around for a vote today?

[ntndeacon]

boo hiss to all. especially the commie traitor among you...whoever you are! I shall haunt you til you are dead!


woooooooooooooOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooooooooooooOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooo (waves ghostly American Flag)

[DaddyTorgo]

lol @ ntn

chief has a bad work schedule on mondays typically path

[molson]

So what's the deal with DodgerChick?

[Lathum]

So what's the deal with DodgerChick?

she usualy calms down. If she decides to bow out I have a replacement lined up.

[Alan T]

I believe she changed work hours so probably hasn't even been back to the board since earlier. Just so no one thinks Im doing anything funny, I dropped her a PM earlier to apologize if she thought I was insulting her. I obviously didn't talk anything WW at all, just let her know to check back in the thread and see what I had intended to say. So Im hoping she'll still be playing.

[bulletsponge]

alan, fwiw, i would have made the same move as you did concerning breaking the tie...i would have picked ntn before cronin, so you arent in my crosshairs.

i would really like to hear why bullet popped a vote off at me and then never said another word...that is definitely going earn my vote tomorrow, barring anything noteworthy during the night

i dont have to explain my actions to you! only a cold hearted ruthless commie would have premade excuses for thier actions, im and American so i dont think before i act!

[Poli]

I think alan met bad as in wolfish
It's been bugging me that I didn't see what was going on earlier. I sure hope you come back. :(

[molson]

I'm glancing over the roles again, does anyone understand the Mercenary/Negotiator dynamic? (Question for anyone, not just Lathum, in case anyone has a comment on strategy)

What's the mercenary's motivation - do they win if the CIA wins? Why does anyone want to "find" them and "gain the next contract"? Why to negotiators care?

[Alan T]

I'm glancing over the roles again, does anyone understand the Mercenary/Negotiator dynamic? (Question for anyone, not just Lathum, in case anyone has a comment on strategy)

What's the mercenary's motivation - do they win if the CIA wins? Why does anyone want to "find" them and "gain the next contract"? Why to negotiators care?

My initial instinct is the mercenary is either straight neutral or is an evil sympathizer type role. Right now in my head by the way its worded, I'm leaning to thinking that it starts out as a special neutral role that will convert to whichever side contacts him first. I am guessing the Negotiator is bad, and maybe the seer for the good guys? Then whichever one finds him first gets to convert him over to their team.

[Narcizo]

My initial instinct is the mercenary is either straight neutral or is an evil sympathizer type role. Right now in my head by the way its worded, I'm leaning to thinking that it starts out as a special neutral role that will convert to whichever side contacts him first. I am guessing the Negotiator is bad, and maybe the seer for the good guys? Then whichever one finds him first gets to convert him over to their team.

That's pretty much my thinking as well. To me it seems that the merc is pure neutral. Were I the mercenary I'd avoid the spotlight for most of the start period of the game and then try dropping hints when it's clear which side has the advantage. Although I've been thinking in terms of the negotiator being good and the baddies having some sort of seer-like device.

I feel very bad about NTN being voted out on the first day again. Still, at least we didn't lynch a seer, which is something of a novelty for a small game first day vote recently. Unless St Cronin is a wolf I don't think we can read too much into the voting patterns though. I'll look again but there doesn't seem to be have been much vote switching.

I think this was a pretty interesting first day, there seemed to be a fair bit going on, more than you'd expect on a first day. Therefore, I declare my policy of stirring up trouble a resounding success. :D

Prepare for a DOLA-fest as I reread the thread. In a bit.

[Narcizo]

narcizo

I like what you're doing with placing a 2nd vote to stir up discussion and get something to analyze. It's not enough to move you into the "good" category or anything at this point, but it's a point in your favor I suppose, and it's nice to see someone with an actual D1 strategy.

This and the fact that DT took 6 minutes between checking in and making a comment after reading his PM (It took me all of 3 seconds to read and digest my role) makes me slightly suspicious of DT. (I know that there are a thousand reasons why it would take some time between posts). Were I of a paranoid bent I'd be worried that I'm being set up for a night kill. Luckily there's no room for anything like paranoia in the cold-war era CIA. :cool:

[Narcizo]

As for Narcizo, it's possible that he was just casting a second vote to stir discussion, but it is just as likely that he was doing so in concert with other KGBers in order to eliminate a true CIA agent in NTN.


"Just as likely", you say?

As others have pointed out I think it's highly unlikely that the wolves would group their votes so obviously on a day one vote. You can argue back and forth about whether casting a second vote on someone is suspicious or not but in the end someone has to do it, otherwise you get a stalemate that only benefits the wolfs.

[Narcizo]

I really don't like ITC's play on day 1, and will give some leeway to you since you are new. I think people need to pick a point for a vote and stick to it unless some better arguement comes out.

This is the way I feel as well. ITC just can't catch a break with his voting patterns lately but while it looks suspicious I think we can cut him a bit of slack at the moment. I'd be very interested in hearing more from bulletsponge about his vote though.

Thinking about it I'm a bit antsy about beargrowlz switching his vote as well. To the suspicious eye it might look like he was trying to make sure that his vote doesn't get associated with a lynch of a villager, later down the line. Despite what St Cronin said voting for MM looks a lot like a throwaway vote to me. He could, at least, have added his vote to path's against me to get a potential third lynch candidate up and running, if he's buying his own "KGB-block voting" theory. Although I'm quite happy that he didn't, obviously. :)

[Chief Rum]

lol @ ntn

chief has a bad work schedule on mondays typically path

Ding ding ding. :)

Ugh, I knew this was starting today, but it just worked out where I couldn't participate at all. I left for work at 10 a.m. I got my PM at 10:05 a.m. How's that for timing?

Since I have been away all day, I decided to come up with a good theory. Find Sean Young's lover, and you will find Yuri. Get going boys! De-pixilate that Polaroid!

Speaking of which, if I got to be Sean Young's lover (circa 1986), I wouldn't mind being Yuri, lol.

"Unfortunately", I am more like American Dad.

It was an interesting day today, methinks. I also think we should put a moratorium on ntndeacon votes on Day One for a while. I mean, honestly, the guy has been "randomly" killed on Day One several games in a row, poor guy.

The sample size on today's vote means nothing without some more day's voting, but it's my guess that today was more revealing than we know. Bold second votes, more than a couple vote and run/no reason votes, a couple non-votes, an odd bandwagon, a late effort to tie, and a CIA killing move right at the deadline. That has to be the most interesting Day One vote I have ever not participated in.

[Narcizo]

That has to be the most interesting Day One vote I have ever not participated in.

:D

[Lorena]

Alright, I've had some time to cool off. First of all, I need to publicly apologize to Alan for what I said; this game brings out some really bad emotions that I don't like to see. How much of a bitch am I to say those things with what he's going through? I'm really upset at myself for not keeping my cool. Alan, I truly am sorry :( :(

I haven't read through the whole thread but LSG you're right, I go through these almost every game and I can't continue doing it. There are players that I have a hard time playing with because they're such a hard read and that makes me not like them in-game; outside of the game I love'em to death. I still feel betrayed by how well Lathum played Spleen and I and I get upset in the game, but damn, Lathum and I talk on a regular basis outside of WW. He's one of my favorite FOFCers.

Anyway, I guess what I'm trying to say is that this will be my last game not because I think I suck, but because I know posts like the one I made will eventually piss someone off so much that they won't wanna have anything to do with me. You guys are my online family and I don't want something I say in the heat of passion to screw up a good thing.

Sorry, back to the game.

[Lathum]

You all assemble in the morning at the mess hall for breakfast. After a while you realize one of you is missing, DaddyTorgo is no where to be found. You make your way to his room where you uncover a gruesome scene. It appears someone ambushed him and killed him before he even had a chance to defend himself.

A search of his quarters reveal several satalite dishes and listening devices. Daddytorgo was the technical officer!

Day 2 has begun. Deadline due 9:00 PM EST.

[molson]

Damn it

[Alan T]

Well that was sub-par

[Narcizo]

This and the fact that DT took 6 minutes between checking in and making a comment after reading his PM (It took me all of 3 seconds to read and digest my role) makes me slightly suspicious of DT. (I know that there are a thousand reasons why it would take some time between posts). Were I of a paranoid bent I'd be worried that I'm being set up for a night kill. Luckily there's no room for anything like paranoia in the cold-war era CIA. :cool:

For God's sake. So we manage to avoid lynching the seer on day one and he gets night killed instead. Fantastic.

This doesn't look very good for me. I hope I didn't tip off the bad guys to something they wouldn't have noticed otherwise. If you buy that I did then one of the bad guys would have to be someone who was around early in the morning. To be honest I don't think that happened, I think it's more a case of the wolves picking off an experienced player first.

[Alan T]

I don't know, I tried to look back through DT's posts to find something that singled him out as an important role. I personally don't know that I saw the "6 min" thing as a huge deal. I mean I went hours before posting after reading my PM.

I also don't know that I think DT was killed as an experienced player either as there are plenty of experienced players in the game, so I don't see why he would be singled out there either. I'll tell you what was unique though about his death.. He was one of the few people who didn't put a vote in on Day 1. Although he had a reason for it, usually something as small as that can give people a reason to want to lynch you. So the bad guys killed someone that could have possibly been a lynch target by some today rather than kill someone who had voting history, was part of the conversation or had established any level of trust.

I think that probably says more about the kill than anything. I also wonder if it tells us more about the mercenary role by showing some insight to the type of people they are night killing, trying to not night kill the wrong person.

[Alan T]

Alright, I've had some time to cool off. First of all, I need to publicly apologize to Alan for what I said; this game brings out some really bad emotions that I don't like to see. How much of a bitch am I to say those things with what he's going through? I'm really upset at myself for not keeping my cool. Alan, I truly am sorry :( :(

I haven't read through the whole thread but LSG you're right, I go through these almost every game and I can't continue doing it. There are players that I have a hard time playing with because they're such a hard read and that makes me not like them in-game; outside of the game I love'em to death. I still feel betrayed by how well Lathum played Spleen and I and I get upset in the game, but damn, Lathum and I talk on a regular basis outside of WW. He's one of my favorite FOFCers.

Anyway, I guess what I'm trying to say is that this will be my last game not because I think I suck, but because I know posts like the one I made will eventually piss someone off so much that they won't wanna have anything to do with me. You guys are my online family and I don't want something I say in the heat of passion to screw up a good thing.

Sorry, back to the game.

No hard feelings from me DC. I just didn't want you to think that I was insulting you or such. No reason to apologize to me any at all, nothing you said bothered me or hurt my feelings at all. I just didn't want to see you disappear due to what was just a misunderstanding.

(ps. I might still vote for you again though!)

[Narcizo]

I wonder if the bad guys have a skeleton key. If they did then they might have searched DT's room (for whatever reason, because he's an experienced player, because of some tell, whatever) during the day, discovered that he's the technical officer and killed him. If they do have a skeleton key then we're in a lot of trouble.

[Alan T]

I wonder if the bad guys have a skeleton key. If they did then they might have searched DT's room (for whatever reason, because he's an experienced player, because of some tell, whatever) during the day, discovered that he's the technical officer and killed him. If they do have a skeleton key then we're in a lot of trouble.

I doubt that the key would be repeat use anyways. I'm guessing the items are a one time use or they would be too overpowered. (ie: skeleton key = additional new seer type role, body armor = additional self-bodyguard type role, or any of the other sensors giving seer type roles).

[Narcizo]

Yeah, I missed that. It says that all items are single use.

[ImTheCrew]

fwiw...i feel fine about you at this point alan. and I believe I have something to go on tomorrow (assuming that person survives the night). I want to double-check something before I say anything though.

wished he had surived, obvious that he was the seer.

[Narcizo]

I thought that was just a case of DT messing with the bad/good guys at the time and forgot about it. If someone were to tell me that it was significant and that DT was good then I'd say it was an attempt to draw the wolfs' attention from someone else. Seems a bit too obvious for a seer to come out and say that. To be honest I'm surprised that a wolf would target someone based on that as it seems too obvious. Were I a wolf I'd be worried that I was being set up.

[molson]

wished he had surived, obvious that he was the seer.

Ya, I haven't read through everything on the first day again yet, but damn, it's pretty obvious from that why he got whacked.

[molson]

I thought that was just a case of DT messing with the bad/good guys at the time and forgot about it. If someone were to tell me that it was significant and that DT was good then I'd say it was an attempt to draw the wolfs' attention from someone else. Seems a bit too obvious for a seer to come out and say that. To be honest I'm surprised that a wolf would target someone based on that as it seems too obvious. Were I a wolf I'd be worried that I was being set up.

Well, there's no real down side for the wolf there - worst case, they eliminate an experienced player. Worth a shot if you have little esle to go on.

[MollyMurphy]

I am getting caught up from my travels yesterday. I did not get to my hotel until 12:30 last night, so I could not check in earlier. Looks like an active Day 1.

Wow, losing the seer after day one hurts.

DC, glad to see you back in the game!!!!

[Poli]

I do have some news, not necessarily good or bad. I see no reason why I shouldn't share it.

I tapped cronin's phone last night, hoping to hear something useful after the day actions. I got nothing. Zilch. Either the dude has a secure cell phone or he didn't have a night action.

[ImTheCrew]

AE are you even playing?

[Alan T]

AE are you even playing?

Heh, he has more posts than you and voted for cronin yesterday :)

[path12]

We're on quite a roll with losing seers early lately. :(

[ImTheCrew]

ahh sorry AE, i missed the name "Ardent" in both the vote counts and the player list.

[st.cronin]

There are two players I sort of trust right now:

Alan T - a wolf would not have broken tha tie, I don't think.

Chief Rum - if he were a wolf, there is almost no way that DT would have been night killed, since they BOTH missed a vote.

I'm not sure who I'm going to vote for. I'd like to hear more from bulletsponge and ITC.

[st.cronin]

fwiw...i feel fine about you at this point alan. and I believe I have something to go on tomorrow (assuming that person survives the night). I want to double-check something before I say anything though.

Anybody have any clue what this means?

[DaddyTorgo]

GODDAMMIT. Good luck all. I knew I should have made my suspiscions clear before I went to bed.

[molson]

Anybody have any clue what this means?

Nope.

I mean, he thought someone's day one activity was suspicious. The fact that he was killed doesn't necessarily mean he was right on those suspicions. Certainly, the spies would expect us to review who DT might have been referring to (maybe as a misdirection).

The spies might want us to look at and over-analyze anyone who participated on day 1 in a remotely suspicious manner.

[DaddyTorgo]

dola

my first time being killed somehow on D1 and i'm the damm seer. Wtf!!!
good luck good-guys!

[st.cronin]

Nope.

I mean, he thought someone's day one activity was suspicious. The fact that he was killed doesn't necessarily mean he was right on those suspicions. Certainly, the spies would expect us to review who DT might have been referring to (maybe as a misdirection).

The spies might want us to look at and over-analyze anyone who participated on day 1 in a remotely suspicious manner.

I agree, if anything, it means he was WRONG on those suspicions (assuming the spies even knew what he meant).

[st.cronin]

Thinking about this some more, hitting somebody not involved in the vote could be an attempt to cast suspicion on either myself or Alan.

[ImTheCrew]

There are two players I sort of trust right now:

Alan T - a wolf would not have broken tha tie, I don't think.

Chief Rum - if he were a wolf, there is almost no way that DT would have been night killed, since they BOTH missed a vote.

I'm not sure who I'm going to vote for. I'd like to hear more from bulletsponge and ITC.


oh come on, i change my vote for a CIA agent and im still in hot water

[path12]

Thinking about this some more, hitting somebody not involved in the vote could be an attempt to cast suspicion on either myself or Alan.

Why? I don't follow.

[MollyMurphy]

I'm new to some of the acronyms....what does "fwiw" mean?

[beargrowlz]

Chief Rum - if he were a wolf, there is almost no way that DT would have been night killed, since they BOTH missed a vote.



I don't understand this.

[path12]

oh come on, i change my vote for a CIA agent and im still in hot water

ITC, what did you think about how the voting day 1 went down? Any suspicions? BTW, I don't think you're necessarily in as hot water as you think you are (personally I think your vote was a result of inexperience rather than evil), but I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts.

[path12]

I'm new to some of the acronyms....what does "fwiw" mean?

For What It's Worth.

[molson]

I'm new to some of the acronyms....what does "fwiw" mean?

For what it's worth (though I spend about a minute trying to think of something funnier that involved the word werewolf twice)

[Alan T]

Thinking about this some more, hitting somebody not involved in the vote could be an attempt to cast suspicion on either myself or Alan.

If that was the case, I still think there were better targets.. If we assume you and Ntndeacon were both villagers (which I am willing to assume for this arguement), then it was villager vs villager, and thus the wolves didnt care who was lynched. Also leaving all of the people who voted for either out there would create a group of people that might get targeted.

So say you want to move away from those groups of people, you would be left with:

MollyMurphy 1--Beargrowlz (140)
Dodgerchick 1 -- Dodgerchick (94),
Narcizo 1 -- path12 (93)
Chief Rum 1 -- Ntndeacon (57)
Saldana 1 -- bulletsponge (100)
bulletsponge 1 -- saldana (107)

No votes: Chief Rum, DaddyTorgo

Lets assume they wanted someone more experienced, so don't go for Beargrowlz. Dodgerchick's status was uncertain so they don't go for her. Ntndeacon is dead.. That would mean if I was a wolf with that strategy, I would have killed either Path or Saldana.

I probably wouldn't kill DT or Chief Rum as people who don't vote often pick up heat the next day even if they had good excuses.

[st.cronin]

Why? I don't follow.

Well, because by not going near yesterday's vote, it may seem to make it important. I was pretty surprised that a guy that didn't vote on day 1 got killed - usually those players are easy to get lynched.

[st.cronin]

I don't understand this.

Because not voting is usually seen as suspicious.

[ImTheCrew]

ITC, what did you think about how the voting day 1 went down? Any suspicions? BTW, I don't think you're necessarily in as hot water as you think you are (personally I think your vote was a result of inexperience rather than evil), but I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts.


Day 1 Voting in my short experience has never showed any signs of anything to me because how could it? im pretty sure there are only "Night" Actions, but i might be wrong. i dont know why people take so much stock into D1's no one has any way of knowing anything inless someone leaks what their role is, which i have yet to notice.

On the other note, i just dont see how i change my vote to you(possible wolf) and alan changes his vote to a now known CIA agent and he's the "Good Guy"?

Im new so maybe i just dont get it :confused:

[st.cronin]

If that was the case, I still think there were better targets.. If we assume you and Ntndeacon were both villagers (which I am willing to assume for this arguement), then it was villager vs villager, and thus the wolves didnt care who was lynched. Also leaving all of the people who voted for either out there would create a group of people that might get targeted.

So say you want to move away from those groups of people, you would be left with:

MollyMurphy 1--Beargrowlz (140)
Dodgerchick 1 -- Dodgerchick (94),
Narcizo 1 -- path12 (93)
Chief Rum 1 -- Ntndeacon (57)
Saldana 1 -- bulletsponge (100)
bulletsponge 1 -- saldana (107)

No votes: Chief Rum, DaddyTorgo

Lets assume they wanted someone more experienced, so don't go for Beargrowlz. Dodgerchick's status was uncertain so they don't go for her. Ntndeacon is dead.. That would mean if I was a wolf with that strategy, I would have killed either Path or Saldana.

I probably wouldn't kill DT or Chief Rum as people who don't vote often pick up heat the next day even if they had good excuses.



I largely agree with that, I was just analyzing DT and CR differently. I wonder if this could mean that the wolves were all involved in ntn vs. me? Maybe by avoiding any of the throwaways, they're trying to leave as many targets out there as possible?

[Alan T]

Day 1 Voting in my short experience has never showed any signs of anything to me because how could it? im pretty sure there are only "Night" Actions, but i might be wrong. i dont know why people take so much stock into D1's no one has any way of knowing anything inless someone leaks what their role is, which i have yet to notice.

On the other note, i just dont see how i change my vote to you(possible wolf) and alan changes his vote to a now known CIA agent and he's the "Good Guy"?

Im new so maybe i just dont get it :confused:

Well my explanation for this is my fate depends alot more on St.Cronin's innocence. If St.Cronin is a wolf, I look like I saved a wolf there. If he is innocent, then my move is irrelevant. The problem I had with your vote ITC was it was done in such a manner to appear to hide it. On day 1, the wolves don't care as much about who gets lynched as they just want to bury their vote so its harder to find down the road. Chances are you wont have a wolf on day 1 be lynched, chances are you won't even have 1 wolf in 2.

[ImTheCrew]

Well my explanation for this is my fate depends alot more on St.Cronin's innocence. If St.Cronin is a wolf, I look like I saved a wolf there. If he is innocent, then my move is irrelevant. The problem I had with your vote ITC was it was done in such a manner to appear to hide it. On day 1, the wolves don't care as much about who gets lynched as they just want to bury their vote so its harder to find down the road. Chances are you wont have a wolf on day 1 be lynched, chances are you won't even have 1 wolf in 2.

Hide? what do you mean by that because to me it was a move to put me out there for one thing it was one of the last votes ( which always seems to give me trouble) and it tied things up.Therefore it was very obvious.

[Alan T]

I largely agree with that, I was just analyzing DT and CR differently. I wonder if this could mean that the wolves were all involved in ntn vs. me? Maybe by avoiding any of the throwaways, they're trying to leave as many targets out there as possible?

Thats what I've been trying to decide. I've been trying to figure out how I feel about Path, Saldana and Bulletsponge today. And then decide if I would rather focus on them or focus on the group in the ntn vs Cronin matchup.

Right now I think remembering back to how bullet played before that I don't think I'm really going to find much more digging into him right now. Something about Saldana makes me want to hold off on pushing at him right now. Path is the only one of the three I have questionmarks about if I want to vote him.

In the other group of people:

Ntndeacon 4 -- MollyMurphy (55), Narcizo (68), st.cronin (92), alanT (153)
St.Cronin 3 -- Ardent (65), Molson (80),ITC (141)

I'm once again willing to give you (cronin) a pass for the day, Still trying to figure out Molson's playstyle so not sure I have a good feel on him. Molly has been fairly under the radar and I have never played with her.. I'm not really ready to look at Ardent too much just yet today.. so that leaves me Narcizo and ITC.

So in my mind I've been looking primarily at path, narcizo and ITC, and think if I press too much on ITC today, it will get me no where. So that leaves me path and narcizo

[ImTheCrew]

dola- be back in about 2 hours

[beargrowlz]

You can argue back and forth about whether casting a second vote on someone is suspicious or not but in the end someone has to do it, otherwise you get a stalemate that only benefits the wolfs.

How does a stalemate/tie benefit the bad guys on day 1?<!-- / message -->

[Alan T]

Hide? what do you mean by that because to me it was a move to put me out there for one thing it was one of the last votes ( which always seems to give me trouble) and it tied things up.Therefore it was very obvious.

I'm not sure how much of this is you trying to talk your way out of it, and how much is just not fully understanding my viewpoint on things. I find it very common for one wolf to not be involved in a day 1 vote and 1 wolf to be. I guess what I am saying is the way you jumped on ntn in the middle of the vote felt like trying to help a run away train. Then when Beargrowlz moved his vote leaving you as the deciding vote you moved it too creating the tie.

Do I find that odd, yes.. is it enough for me to vote you today.. probably not.

[Alan T]

<!-- / message -->How does a stalemate/tie benefit the bad guys on day 1?

If you end up with no lynch due to a tie, it leaves you basically treating day 2 like day 1 all over again. Where everyone is voting for people without knowing if either of the people from day 1 were guilty or innocent. So even if you are wrong about your lynch vote on day 1, as long as its a close race there is a chance it will leave you with voting patterns to use later in the game. A tie with no lynch leaves you much less.

This of course is a fun arguement that some disagree with and people will argue back and forth till they are blue in the face. I don't like ties, and thus made sure we didn't have one.

[MollyMurphy]

For What It's Worth.

Thank you Path!

[MollyMurphy]

For what it's worth (though I spend about a minute trying to think of something funnier that involved the word werewolf twice)

Thank you to you too Molson.....I kept trying to think of something w/ WW in it too, but for real...par for the course in my case. :confused:

[beargrowlz]

Molly,

Why'd you vote for ntndeacon yesterday?

[beargrowlz]

Heh, I'm a threadkiller<tm> ;)

[st.cronin]

wished he had surived, obvious that he was the seer.

vote ImTheCrew

Well, I'll go out on a limb. I don't think it was at at all obvious that DT was the seer.

[MollyMurphy]

Molly,

Why'd you vote for ntndeacon yesterday?

I had to leave for the airport yesterday by 2:45 and knew I would not be back until very late last night, so I had to vote before that. At that point, there was not much going on yet and there were no indicators on which way to go. This is my second game and NTN was in the first game with me. I recognized the name and I don't know a ton about how everyone plays yet, so I went with him.

[beargrowlz]

I'm still torn between Molly, Narc and ITC, same as yesterday.

[beargrowlz]

Sorry Molly, posted my last post before seeing your latest. Thanks for the answer.

[path12]

Lets assume they wanted someone more experienced, so don't go for Beargrowlz. Dodgerchick's status was uncertain so they don't go for her. Ntndeacon is dead.. That would mean if I was a wolf with that strategy, I would have killed either Path or Saldana.

But by that logic, you and Cronin are just as likely targets also. Many of us said right after the vote that we weren't likely to hold the late switch to avoid the tie against you, so you would have been just as likely a target as me or Sal. Maybe not Cronin since he got votes yesterday and might have been expected to get more today....

I'm personally still suspicious of Narcizo. But I have been pretty busy this morning and haven't had much of a chance yet to really go through his posts from early this morning.

[bulletsponge]

Daddy died huh, tough break :)

ohh wait didnt want to post the smiley :(

sorry im not posting much, inbetween work and FM im trying to squeeze in WW

[Alan T]

But by that logic, you and Cronin are just as likely targets also. Many of us said right after the vote that we weren't likely to hold the late switch to avoid the tie against you, so you would have been just as likely a target as me or Sal. Maybe not Cronin since he got votes yesterday and might have been expected to get more today....

I'm personally still suspicious of Narcizo. But I have been pretty busy this morning and haven't had much of a chance yet to really go through his posts from early this morning.

By all means include me in the group to be suspicious about. If I didnt know me then I would consider myself too. You have to understand though that I have some insider information.. I know I'm good. So when I'm talking about my suspects, it would be a bit odd to include myself on the list :)

St.cronin I don't think would have been a night target for the reason you just said. Combine that with what Ardent said about him then we have to assume either:

A) Ardent and Cronin are both bad (or at least Ardent is lying to us about cronin's activity last night)

or

B) Cronin while might not be definitly good, didn't send in a PM last night to order the kill of DT or to search for the mercenary or such.

So I just feel its less likely that Cronin is bad than most of the others right now at least, either way though without Ardent's comments on him, I still wouldn't imagine Cronin have beeing a night target last night.

[st.cronin]

Path, if you assume I'm good I think you have to assume Alan is good as well.

[Alan T]

Path, if you assume I'm good I think you have to assume Alan is good as well.

Not trying to get myself lynched or anything, but why would you make that assumption? If yesterday was villager vs villager, a wolf doesnt care who dies. So me saving you or me saving Ntndeacon, it really doesn't matter to a wolf. I would argue that a wolf is less likely to stick his neck out on day 1 like that, but we've seen wolfs do that before too. (I think I even did it before once long ago).

I'm a good guy, but I don't think I've done much one way or another that can seal the deal for people though I guess.

[beargrowlz]

Daddy died huh, tough break :)

ohh wait didnt want to post the smiley :(

sorry im not posting much, inbetween work and FM im trying to squeeze in WW

I think you're taunting us! 15 yards, unsportsmanlike conduct.