Werewolf XLIV: The Fightin’ Fundies vs. Them Gays - GAME OVER

[Blade6119]

Tacked on the Church Door is the following sign:

The following people have been labelled as Subversive and Liberal and Unmutual:




ntndeacon

Ok...was this what you meant chief? That your the one putting names on the list? Im not sure im ready to kill ntn until i hear from ITC and chief

[hoopsguy]

Agreed - I'm willing to sit on this for a little while. We have all weekend to hear from people.

[Chief Rum]

Ok...was this what you meant chief? That your the one putting names on the list? Im not sure im ready to kill ntn until i hear from ITC and chief

The dots are there to connect. And I'll prove it. I am the one putting the names on the door. And I have hit on three liberal leaning individuals in three nights.

As the head of the Sunday school, I can speak to the children of our village to discover where their parents keep their secrets. And then at night I steal away to their houses to look for them. In doing so, I discovered a check stub made out to the ACLU in DaddyTorgo's house. I also got distinct liberal vibes from the houses of Lathum and ntndeacon.

And on Night Two, I visited Blade and found nothing but a note saying "Not here. Not anymore. Nice try though." ([i]Anxiety, I hope it's okay to quote that particular note).

Thanks to my schedule and Axiety's quick night phases, I actually dropped the ball on Nights 0 and 1, submitting no actions. But since no one died on either side until Day Two, I don't feel too bad about that.

The Blade (N2) finding confirms for me that he is who he says he is, although it doesn't prove his allegiance (I do believe he is a God-fearing Christian).

Tyrith and ImTheCrew's findings confirmed for me both his story and theirs. When Lathum turned up gay both for me and in death, that further confirmed Tyrith (although that is now confirmed by his death as well). Since at the time I thought I was the seer, you can see why I questioned Tyrith's reveal. It turns out we have a lot of information gatherers, it seems. This is why I questioned his reveal and supported Lathum. At the time, I thought Tyrith was lying and I hadn't tested Lathum (N4) yet.

By putting Lathum on the list with a night action, I saved us having to put him back on if he wasn't lying about his duke ability.

DaddyTorgo (N3), I got the impression he had leanings but wasn't one of them gays. But I couldn't be sure--it was the first time I had any information of use from my scans. I wish I could have saved him, but it was the wrong time to reveal as a seer (another reason I didn't buy Tyrith at the time).

More on DT in a sec...

ntndeacon (N5) was a gut feeling. The wolves made mistakes going after KWhit, path12 and bullet, IMO. They all qualify as veterans who were decidely quieter than usual. As such, they would have been targets for my scans. But they were all night killed, so when I scanned the list for candidates, it occurred to me that all of the vocal players and vets had advocates for being good and reasons to believe they were good. Only Ironhead and ntndeacon qualified as truly "quiet". I thought it very odd ntndeacon was so quiet, so he became my target. It looks like we may have found our third gay.

Now for the proof. In post 630, Daddy Torgo revealed (before he died) that he had written a check to the ACLU, showing his liberal leaning. Earlier in the day, he had sought for a hint that soemone knew this detail. Unfortunately, he missed it. My post, #490:

So is Tyrith saying he is the seer? He never actually said it in so many words, so I want to be sure.

DT, it is rather convenient for you to come up with this explanation. If you're one of them gays, obviously, this could be a sign you have been outed. If what you say is true, it could still mean you could be converted. I'm not sure your reveal (regardless of its timing) makes a difference ultimately on whether we should stone you or not. I don't have aclue right now, though, which way I am leaning with you.

Review my post, particularly the bolded words in the section, which is a message directly to DT. There is no typo in this post at all, no grammatical error. Except one. ACLUe. I had hoped DT would get it. But he missed it.

And as hoopsguy said earlier about me, "Elementary Watson".

(sorry it was D6 instead of N4 like you predicted, hoops).

VOTE STONE NTNDEACON

[hoopsguy]

Chief, looking back on the PMs were there any significant differences between what you saw on DaddyTorgo and Lathum? You talked quite a bit about what you learned on DT but not as much on Lathum ...

[Blade6119]

Ill be honest with you chief, since your being honest with me...if it werent for my block of night actions, you would not like what you found about me. Just so im totally forthcoming.

[Chief Rum]

Chief, looking back on the PMs were there any significant differences between what you saw on DaddyTorgo and Lathum? You talked quite a bit about what you learned on DT but not as much on Lathum ...

That was odd actually. I got lots of details about DT and Blade (although no usable details on Blade), but with Lathum and ntndeacon the message was much the same. Along the lines of "you don't find anything in particular, except the distinct impression of liberalness."

It's the fact that ntndeacon had the same sort of message I got from Lathum, a known wolf, that tells me he might be one and the same. I would be less sure if the message differed a bit more, or gave more indidual details.

[Chief Rum]

Ill be honest with you chief, since your being honest with me...if it werent for my block of night actions, you would not like what you found about me. Just so im totally forthcoming.

Is it action-related or just information about you? If it's just a part of your character, but you're good and not able to do actiosn that hurt us, then I am fine with that.

If it is a part of your role and can hurt us, though, obviously, I would want to know more. What exactly is the harm in coming out with it anyway? Even if it was something we would kill you for, it would take at least three days. I find it hard to believe we wouldn't stone ntndeacon today (although information could come out to change that, I suppose), so we couldn't liberalize you. You are unscannable at night so I can't put you on the list. So we would liekly stone ntndeacon, liberalize you, and then stone you. This game isn't going to last that long. So what's the point in hiding this information about your role?

[hoopsguy]

I would like to hear what NTN has to say in his defense, but right now Chief is putting together a pretty nice case.

[Blade6119]

Is it action-related or just information about you? If it's just a part of your character, but you're good and not able to do actiosn that hurt us, then I am fine with that.

If it is a part of your role and can hurt us, though, obviously, I would want to know more. What exactly is the harm in coming out with it anyway? Even if it was something we would kill you for, it would take at least three days. I find it hard to believe we wouldn't stone ntndeacon today (although information could come out to change that, I suppose), so we couldn't liberalize you. You are unscannable at night so I can't put you on the list. So we would liekly stone ntndeacon, liberalize you, and then stone you. This game isn't going to last that long. So what's the point in hiding this information about your role?

Because if i share what those leanings are(not the same ALCU story, but think DT) then im afraid i will be put on the liberal list. And if it does not end with ntn, or whoever is after, me being on the list could buy evil more time.

[hoopsguy]

Blade, are you worried that the process of posting the "issue" would get you on liberal list? Just how saucy is it?

While I'm intrigued with what this might be, I think there have been enough people coming out with information around you (not about you, since no one seems to interact with you at night) to make me want to finish with the Chief/NTN line of thought first.

[Blade6119]

i voted a certain way in the 04 election...nothing more then that, i just dont want to say flatly i voted for X as it would add me to the liberal list.

[hoopsguy]

* gasp *

[hoopsguy]

Wow, this is slow even by weekend standards.

[st.cronin]

I don't really have anything to add. :p

[Blade6119]

waiting on ntn and ITC to talk...nothing really to do until those 2 share

[hoopsguy]

I agree with you on that, Blade. Just was hoping for something to work with before heading out for the evening to watch the basketball games.

[Blade6119]

Im heading out for much of the day now, and maybe the night...so it could get even slower

[ImTheCrew]

i went to ironheads house last night and he was asleep all night

[Blade6119]

ITC, answer me...why did you re-scan tyrith?

[Chief Rum]

i went to ironheads house last night and he was asleep all night

I thought you might have gone to investigate me. Oh well...would have liked a voucher, although hopefully I have made a strong enough case.

Incidentally, ntndeacon was out when I visited last night, but I had to leave quickly because he was set to return soon.

[ImTheCrew]

ITC, answer me...why did you re-scan tyrith? is not really a "scan" i just wanted to make sure that he just didnt do a night action the first time so i did it 2nd time

[Ironhead]

I think Chief makes a very strong argument for ntn. This late in the game I am not willing to cast a stone at him without at least hearing his side of things first. ntn really needs to start talking soon because regardless of what anyone else does it will only take Chief’s vote to kill him.

[ntndeacon]

I am sorry I just got back in town. We had our fantasy baseball draft today.

[ntndeacon]

To answer the allegations laid against me. Yes there is an incident in my past that would lend me to being put up on the liberal list. I am sorry to have to tell you that I ...was involved in an anti Vietnam protest. When I was a young girl of 17, I rebelled some from my upbringing and went to a rally. There are actually pictures of the event showing me being UnAmerican at it. I re-established my lost values soon after..thanks to my boyfriend of the time who guided me back to the faith.

[ntndeacon]

by the way. Sorry I massacred your name Ironhead

[ntndeacon]

I firmly expect to be stoned by the way. Even if Chief does remove his vote as I think he should. For the Gays will know it is another day that they won't be put on the list if I die.

[Chief Rum]

To answer the allegations laid against me. Yes there is an incident in my past that would lend me to being put up on the liberal list. I am sorry to have to tell you that I ...was involved in an anti Vietnam protest. When I was a young girl of 17, I rebelled some from my upbringing and went to a rally. There are actually pictures of the event showing me being UnAmerican at it. I re-established my lost values soon after..thanks to my boyfriend of the time who guided me back to the faith.

Too bad I didn't get any specifics with you like I did with DT. Nothing I can confirm there. At this point, I'm afraid I don't see a reason to remove my vote.

It's funny because you have had some bad luck in recent WW games recently, getting killed off really early. I commented on it in Lathum's game, after we sent you out early there.

So I leave you alone, and near the end of the game, who's there being a quiet, unassuming veteran? Wny it's ntndeacon! :)

Hopefully I am right, and you are gay.

[Chief Rum]

I firmly expect to be stoned by the way. Even if Chief does remove his vote as I think he should. For the Gays will know it is another day that they won't be put on the list if I die.

Is there anything about your role or things you can prove or show that you're not one of Them Gays? I'm not saying I will remove my vote, but I'll listen.

[ntndeacon]

I thought you might have gone to investigate me. Oh well...would have liked a voucher, although hopefully I have made a strong enough case.

Incidentally, ntndeacon was out when I visited last night, but I had to leave quickly because he was set to return soon.

Ok something is very strange here. I wasn't out last night.

[hoopsguy]

Guess that answers the question I was about to post.

[hoopsguy]

NTN, have you been out ANY night?

[ntndeacon]

Too bad I didn't get any specifics with you like I did with DT. Nothing I can confirm there. At this point, I'm afraid I don't see a reason to remove my vote.

It's funny because you have had some bad luck in recent WW games recently, getting killed off really early. I commented on it in Lathum's game, after we sent you out early there.

So I leave you alone, and near the end of the game, who's there being a quiet, unassuming veteran? Wny it's ntndeacon! :)

Hopefully I am right, and you are gay.

It is a false hope. I hope you have a strategy on someone to check once it os found that I am a faithful member of the Almost Heaven Baptist Church.

Now onto my quietness. I am ALWAYS quiet. if you look at any of the games Iplay I will be near the bottom of posts almost always. (especially when you view them in game). I would be interested in whom you would target next.

[ntndeacon]

Hoops to answer your question more clearly....
I have not been out on any night. furthurmore, I do not have children so how they would lead you towards my secret is beyond me. I do not deny I have the leaning. ALso I am not claiming ChiefRum is not being forthright with us.

[ntndeacon]

I have no proof of my faithfulness. The only proof that you will see is after you stone me like Stephen.

[Chief Rum]

Hoops to answer your question more clearly....
I have not been out on any night. furthurmore, I do not have children so how they would lead you towards my secret is beyond me. I do not deny I have the leaning. ALso I am not claiming ChiefRum is not being forthright with us.

I'm not sure if these inconsistencies aren't due to just the way the game is set up. My role by definition is based on questioning the children where you keep your secrets. I thought it was a parents thing, but maybe it's just all the kids know, so if they're in my class, I can find out. And the PM was clear that you weren't home (which is different from Lathum, he was actually home, and I had to be quiet) when I explored your place. But maybe you were just out getting groceries. For all I know, you not being home wasn't intended to mean anything. But that's beyond what I have been told about the nature of my role.

[Chief Rum]

I have no proof of my faithfulness. The only proof that you will see is after you stone me like Stephen.

Well, who would you suggest going after? If not you, who is your top suspect?

I don't want to say myself just yet, because that could be the deciding point on whether they come after me in the next night phase or ImTheCrew.

[Chief Rum]

Now onto my quietness. I am ALWAYS quiet. if you look at any of the games Iplay I will be near the bottom of posts almost always. (especially when you view them in game). I would be interested in whom you would target next.

I do know that, but even aren't usually this quiet. I have sproadic posting patterns, too, in these games, based on my availability, so you and I often have similar levels of participation (except recently I have been living longer, for whatever reason).

[Chief Rum]

That should be even you aren't usually this quiet.

[ntndeacon]

I'm not sure if these inconsistencies aren't due to just the way the game is set up. My role by definition is based on questioning the children where you keep your secrets. I thought it was a parents thing, but maybe it's just all the kids know, so if they're in my class, I can find out. And the PM was clear that you weren't home (which is different from Lathum, he was actually home, and I had to be quiet) when I explored your place. But maybe you were just out getting groceries. For all I know, you not being home wasn't intended to mean anything. But that's beyond what I have been told about the nature of my role.

I was actually wondering about that Chief. Whether you had been in the house when anyone was in. do you know where in the house you searched?

[ntndeacon]

Well, who would you suggest going after? If not you, who is your top suspect?

I don't want to say myself just yet, because that could be the deciding point on whether they come after me in the next night phase or ImTheCrew.

Well Assuming that all Tyrith said was true. there are 4 people that it is offically unclear on whether they are one of the faithful or one of THEM.
you , me, Ironhead, and Blade. If you are good, like you say. I think there is only one place for you to look.

Ironhead

The reason is this. You can't find Blade it seems. so Ironhead is the next place to look.

[Chief Rum]

I was actually wondering about that Chief. Whether you had been in the house when anyone was in. do you know where in the house you searched?

It didn't really give me specifics about what I searched in your place. It just said I didn't find anything right away, but I got a definite liberal vibe. It also said I had to leave before finding anything further because you could be home soon. Obviously, that's how I drew the conclusion you were out.

Lathum was in when I searched his place. I had to be quiet and sneak around like a burglar. The link between him and you is that I got that same liberal vibe with him. And we know what he was.

[Chief Rum]

Well Assuming that all Tyrith said was true. there are 4 people that it is offically unclear on whether they are one of the faithful or one of THEM.
you , me, Ironhead, and Blade. If you are good, like you say. I think there is only one place for you to look.

Ironhead

The reason is this. You can't find Blade it seems. so Ironhead is the next place to look.

But Ironhead now has a voucher in ImTheCrew. He visited him last night. So unless we buy that ImTheCrew is bad as well and lying, then Ironhead wasn't out and about last night.

[ntndeacon]

But Ironhead now has a voucher in ImTheCrew. He visited him last night. So unless we buy that ImTheCrew is bad as well and lying, then Ironhead wasn't out and about last night.

Then that leaves 2 then doesn't it. However what I was suggesting was someone for you to search as you have on every night we have seen. And since you can't search Blade, and searching yourself is like asking the fox to guard the henhouse (even if you can do that) It leaves only one candidate for you to check.

[ntndeacon]

It didn't really give me specifics about what I searched in your place. It just said I didn't find anything right away, but I got a definite liberal vibe. It also said I had to leave before finding anything further because you could be home soon. Obviously, that's how I drew the conclusion you were out.

Lathum was in when I searched his place. I had to be quiet and sneak around like a burglar. The link between him and you is that I got that same liberal vibe with him. And we know what he was.

The book that was in my house is in the attic. it shows the Anti VeitNam ralley I attended. That is why iasked.

[Blade6119]

Then that leaves 2 then doesn't it. However what I was suggesting was someone for you to search as you have on every night we have seen. And since you can't search Blade, and searching yourself is like asking the fox to guard the henhouse (even if you can do that) It leaves only one candidate for you to check.

You know, i think my story has checked out. Ive had 3 seperate seers get the exact same result...i have been telling you my role in pieces all game. I think ive earned some measure of trust(though i could be wrong).

[Blade6119]

I will say this...we seem to be in pretty good shape if NTN is evil. What worries me, is that we have/had supposedly 3 seers. And at that, 2 of those 3 have badly mismanaged their scannings(in my opinion, maybe not yours...be it ITC rescanning tyrith to chief flat out missing the first few night actions).

Im just asking myself, do we really have that much firepower on our side? 3 seers, a role that cant be touched at night, and whatever other roles are out there? There were only 14 players, so 3 seers seems heavy. Though i havent seen a BG, so maybe...just thinking out loud here. Hoops, ironhead...have a role that can help us too?

[hoopsguy]

Blade, my ability has potential to be helpful, but it hasn't been realized all game because certain conditions have yet to be met. Which has been a little bit frustrating, but whatever.

Also, I would like to have a little bit better idea of what ImTheCrew is doing. Based on his accounts, we know he is visiting people at their house. Tyrith has vouched that he is good. But what is he doing at their houses, outside of seeing if they are home? Because right now he is the one vouching for Ironhead, and we are getting late enough in the game that I want to put 100% faith in that vouch but don't feel like I can without some more info.

Also I'll be attending mass (ooc/ at a wine tasting event) for a good portion of the day so I won't be around until late afternoon to cast a vote. If I had to vote now, I would probably go along with the NTN vote because we can do it. Not every lynch is going to be a slam dunk like Lathum was earlier - we took a shot earlier on LSG and it worked out. Clearly the liberal thing isn't only associated with gays, but if DaddyTorgo and Blade (leap of faith, since no one can truly vouch for it but what is value add in him revealing this?) were liberals but not gays then how many more of those are likely to be out there?

[ntndeacon]

I will say this...we seem to be in pretty good shape if NTN is evil. What worries me, is that we have/had supposedly 3 seers. And at that, 2 of those 3 have badly mismanaged their scannings(in my opinion, maybe not yours...be it ITC rescanning tyrith to chief flat out missing the first few night actions).

Im just asking myself, do we really have that much firepower on our side? 3 seers, a role that cant be touched at night, and whatever other roles are out there? There were only 14 players, so 3 seers seems heavy. Though i havent seen a BG, so maybe...just thinking out loud here. Hoops, ironhead...have a role that can help us too?

I would be concerned about a false reveal as you arre suggesting except that the seers seem to be interconnected. we know Tyrith was good. and if we believe him we know ITC is good. Which brings us to ChiefRum, the other seer. his power seems to be to put those with liberal tendencies on the list. we have seen him do it with Them gays and those with weaker tendencies. I think that after I am eliminated from the game and the night victim is chosen, that ChiefRum may still be alive. He did put Lathum on the list. But it we were pretty well convinced that he was gay at the time. So Lathum appearing on the list seemed a godsend to shortcircuit the duke ability Lathum Claimed. The only problem with that is I don't know a single time the duke has only had his powers at night. Perhaps Lathum was put up there with his consent to keep that story alive. It also had the effect of securing ChiefRum on the side of good. How many times have we seen a bad guy turn on another bad guy to be percieved as good.

[Ironhead]

Blade - I don't think I have a role that would help us out in the current situation. I can tell you that I am the Trustee of the church and my responsibility is to oversee the legal and ethical happenings of the church. It is not an information gathering role, but more a position of esteem and influence.

[ntndeacon]

I will stete flatly what I have been insinuating. I am the church's pianist.

[ntndeacon]

by stete i obviously meant state.

[Blade6119]

Ntn, what does your role grant you?

[ntndeacon]

My role grants me absolutely nothing. I have no job. my role even though it was named is that of an average villager in games.

[Ironhead]

(OOC - I am about to leave to look at houses. I should be back around 8:30 in order to catch up on the thread)

[ImTheCrew]

VOTE STONE NTN

i have to go and i wont be back before 9

[Blade6119]

My role grants me absolutely nothing. I have no job. my role even though it was named is that of an average villager in games.

VOTE STONE NTNDEACON

It seems to me, though i may be wrong, that we all have roles. I could be quite wrong here...but i do, chief does, hoops and iron just claimed ones, ITC has one...

So that would make you the only one without a role...it may be the case, but its a little hard to beleive.

[ntndeacon]

I did not claim I had no role, Blade. I just claim that my role gave me no special power. As I said earlier I am the church pianist. it allows me to do absolutely nothing, but i DO have a role. What I do not have is a werewolf related job. I am not a seer. I am not a duke. I am not a bodyguard. In werewolf parlance I am nothing but a poor villager. thouroughly on the side of good.

[hoopsguy]

I would still like to see ImTheCrew explain his role mechanics a little bit better, but I think we are down to ChiefRum or ntndeacon lying at this point. Rum saved us a day by putting Lathum on the block at night, so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt while hoping we have another day to work with if we are wrong here.

VOTE STONE NTNDEACON

[ntndeacon]

If ChiefRum is lying it is in the details I think. I do believe he has the power he claims to have. but Blade's comment about the 3 seer like positions is intriguing. certainly if he is gay, then the role he has shown is a powerful tool for THEM.

[ntndeacon]

I can tell you right now. (Assuming if ChiefRum is alive tomorrow) I can see him easily accusing Blade as that 3rd gay.

[Ironhead]

At this point I don't see any reason to go against what everyone else in the community has decided.

VOTE STONE NTNDEACON

[ntndeacon]

just so I can make a last gesture as unimportant as it may be:

Vote to liberal list Chief Rum

[Blade6119]

Thats past the deadline ntn

[Abe Sargent]

9: Then there arose certain of the synagogue, which is called the synagogue of the Libertines, and Cyrenians, and Alexandrians, and of them of Cilicia and of Asia, disputing with Ntndeacon.
10: And they were not able to resist the wisdom and the spirit by which he spake.
11: Then they suborned men, which said, We have heard him speak blasphemous words against Moses, and against God.
12: And they stirred up the people, and the elders, and the scribes, and came upon him, and caught him, and brought him to the council,
13: And set up false witnesses, which said, This man ceaseth not to speak blasphemous words against this holy place, and the law:
14: For we have heard him say, that this Jesus of Nazareth shall destroy this place, and shall change the customs which Moses delivered us.
15: And all that sat in the council, looking stedfastly on him, saw his face as it had been the face of an angel.

…

57: Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one accord,
58: And cast him out of the city, and stoned him: and the witnesses laid down their clothes at a young man's feet, whose name was Saul.
59: And they stoned Ntndeacon, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.
60: And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep

1: And Saul was consenting unto his death. And at that time there was a great persecution against the church which was at Jerusalem; and they were all scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judaea and Samaria, except the apostles.
2: And devout men carried Ntndeacon to his burial, and made great lamentation over him.



Day Six has ended. Night Six has begun and will end at 2 am EST Monday

[ntndeacon]

wow what a death. I just had to say that. Good luck good guys.

[Blade6119]

Chief chief chief....what do to with chief

[Chief Rum]

Shoot. Looks like ntndeacon was just like DT, liberal tendencies but on the side of good. I thought he was far and away our best candidate, so we're in a bad spot here.

I would welcome any further discussion on who we should look at now.

[Chief Rum]

Chief chief chief....what do to with chief

I understand your doubts given this result, but I can only assure you I am as good as they come. I am at a loss here, as well, and disappointed ntndeacon wasn't a wolf.

You do whatever you feel you have to do, but I am on the side of good, and killing me will only bring evil closer to victory.

[Blade6119]

The way i see it now, its either ironhead or chief...the only two who have not been cleared by our seer(tyrith). He cleared both ITC and hoops, and now 3 people have confirmed my story(if you choose not to believe it, so be it).

[hoopsguy]

And ITC has cleared Ironhead - which is why I still think we need to understand what is going on with his role. I'm just not all that hopeful of getting good information as he has had all weekend to provide some kind of clarification and we have yet to see it.

[Blade6119]

ITC didnt clear ironhead...he said ironhead wasnt out and about that night. There is a difference...which night was that?

[Blade6119]

dola...hoops really wont like this, but he could be evil despite the scan. He was scanned and cleared night 0. Night 1 we had a no-kill. Hoops would be a top choice for conversion in any game...just saying.

[ImTheCrew]

blade have you been cleared?

[ImTheCrew]

ITC didnt clear ironhead...he said ironhead wasnt out and about that night. There is a difference...which night was that?
last night(friday?)

[Chief Rum]

I am wondering about two people. The last wolf (I believe there is only one), and our bodyguard. The BG is a pretty major role, and I don't know that we have gotten a hint out of anyone about being that role.

As for clearing, no one denies Blade's odd role, but there has been nop vouching as to what side he is on. Just like me. No one has vouched for my side, but I have provided ample evidence that I am the role I say I am.

Right now, I am actually relatvely clear on ITC and Ironhead. Tyrith was proven good and confirmed ITC was good. ITC has said Ironhead wasn't out, and I don't believe there is more than one wolf left.

So the wolf is someone else, IMO.

[Blade6119]

blade have you been cleared?

Nope...tyrith, chief, and yourself have all checked me out, and all reached the same conclusion(couldnt find me). So my claims have checked out, 3 fold...the question you have to ask yourself is are my claims becuase im good or just a evil role the seer cant touch

[hoopsguy]

dola...hoops really wont like this, but he could be evil despite the scan. He was scanned and cleared night 0. Night 1 we had a no-kill. Hoops would be a top choice for conversion in any game...just saying.

It is a fair observation and I've wondered about a conversion as well. But the other people that Tyrith cleared earlier in the game are dead so it isn't something I've spent too much time thinking about.

Well, except you. But I'll wait on that issue until tomorrow.

If you want to evaluate if I'm playing as a converted gay, ask yourself if I would have come out voting for stoning LoneStarGirl before the rules were set on stoning vs liberal list. Yes, Lathum did exactly that after I had a vote down (don't know if Anxiety had clarified rules by that point or not, but can look it up if you want) but that should be even more reason to believe that I wouldn't do it. I would have zero interest in being affiliated with a fellow wolf by voting records at that stage in the game.

But if there was ever a time where I don't mind this being brought up, I think tonight is it. I would like to live to see tomorrow and with the seer out of the way I think there is a pretty good chance he comes for me if I'm treated as a 100% "known good".

[Blade6119]

last night(friday?)

And lathum died before that...so either their are two wolves or someone else is the wolf....wouldnt that imply that, since there was a night kill that night

[Blade6119]

Chief...i think you should check out hoops tonight. I think that much is clear to me...he may not be the top suspect, but he is the logical choice from your standpoint. ITC cleared ironhead, and you believe him there...you have already checked me, and your not going to get different results if you do it again. That leaves yourself or hoops, which is obvious.

Do you see it diferently?

[hoopsguy]

Chief, you won't find any liberal leanings if you check me out. Which means that we'll need to put a person on the list ourselves tomorrow during the day. We should have time to do this if there is just one gay left in our town. But if there are two of them remaining then we are going to be in a world of hurt because I don't think we'll have three days to stone them.

[Blade6119]

Well well, someone doesnt want to be checked out. Interesting hoops, very interesting.

If there are 2 gays left, we lose tonight(which i dont think anxiety would make us sit through if it were the case). So we have 1 gay left likely...its not ITC, he was cleared by tyrith. Its not ironhead, as iron was asleep when we had a kill(post lathum and LSGs deaths).

That leaves you, me, and chief. From chief standpoint it makes sense to scan you, as he knows what he will find with me(me not home) and himself(i sure hope). No one knows what he will find with you...

[Chief Rum]

The fact you both are focusing on me tells me I gope the BG is watching over me tonight.

[Chief Rum]

hope, that is.

[Blade6119]

Unless ironhead is the BG, we have no bg alive....

[hoopsguy]

Well well, someone doesnt want to be checked out. Interesting hoops, very interesting.

If there are 2 gays left, we lose tonight(which i dont think anxiety would make us sit through if it were the case). So we have 1 gay left likely...its not ITC, he was cleared by tyrith. Its not ironhead, as iron was asleep when we had a kill(post lathum and LSGs deaths).

That leaves you, me, and chief. From chief standpoint it makes sense to scan you, as he knows what he will find with me(me not home) and himself(i sure hope). No one knows what he will find with you...

I'm fine being checked out if we have one gay left. I don't know that for sure, so I'm a little less fine with it. But that isn't my call to make. I can tell you that I won't be on a liberal list tomorrow morning unless I have an unknown liberal leaning - and I don't think that has been the case for anyone so far this game.

But I don't know why you have moved the discussion completely away from ImTheCrew and Ironhead. If I thought there were two gays left (I don't) then I would think you are playing defense for them here.

[Blade6119]

I'm fine being checked out if we have one gay left. I don't know that for sure, so I'm a little less fine with it. But that isn't my call to make. I can tell you that I won't be on a liberal list tomorrow morning unless I have an unknown liberal leaning - and I don't think that has been the case for anyone so far this game.

But I don't know why you have moved the discussion completely away from ImTheCrew and Ironhead. If I thought there were two gays left (I don't) then I would think you are playing defense for them here.

Because Tyrith cleared ITC on like night 4...we have had a night kill every night starting night 2. So i dont think he could have been converted. He clears ironhead, in conjuction with the one wolf theory. I dont see how i can attack ITC, and from my arguments earlier i was his biggest critic, and feel like im doing whats best for the village.

So either you or chief is evil in my mind, and tomorrow i shall act accordingly. I see ways both of you could be evil, and i see a great way to help find out tonight a little more clearly where you lie. If you are on the list tomorrow, after you said you have no liberal leanings, i will know you are lying. If not, ill work through other scenarios.

[Abe Sargent]

During the evening you all hear a sharp shout and steel out of your houses. There is the body of ImTheCrew, bloodied and obviously dead. Above him leering at you with a dire grin is Ironhead. You quickly realize that it was his shout you heard, as ITC has been dead for a few minutes now.

“Your protection has been killed. What will happen with you, now?” he asks.

Written in the blood of the deceased on the ground before you is the following:

Romans 12: 17-20

Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men. If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men. Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord. Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head.


Ironhead addresses the remaining three people.

“You failed to follow this scripture. You punished and prosecuted those different than you. Now I act as the vengeance of the Lord.”

As he finishes his statement, hoopsguy steps in front of you and crosses the park, standing behind Ironhead. He turns and stares at you.

“With just two of you left, we can easily overcome you. Prepare to join your erstwhile friends.



Prepare to join God.”

With that, hoopsguy and Ironhead charge at you. Ironhead has ITC’s bloodied rake while hoopsguy uses just his fists. Within moments, you are dead, and they reign.



Them Gays have achieved their victory conditions.

[Abe Sargent]

Some of my favorite pms during this game (look for the innuendo)



ImtheCrew BG stcronin. You find a place in stcronin;s backyard and pretend that you are merely tending his leaves, raking them back and forth instead of into piles to elongate your time spent. You come over to the two round buildings in the backyard used as tool sheds. From there, you have a nice observation post to see all of the bushes and shrubbery. Unfortunately, during the night, nothing comes out and nobody seems to be around.

[Abe Sargent]

Another of my favs:


Gay Conversion hoopsguy. You decide to wait until the cover of darkness. Tonight you see that hoops’s guitar lays in its case. He is down by the creek, making a dam for fun, watching the waters destroy it, and then building it back up again.

You help him out, and for fifteen minutes, you are building the dam, using sand and dirt and rocks to build it up, and then laughing as the water goes over it and breaks it down.

You laugh and splash each other gently with the water. You use the opportunity to slip closer to him. He says that it was a lot of fun building the dams. You point out to him that’s the beauty of life, to try out new things. He nods.

You stroke his hair gently, and then say, “I’d like to fuck you.”

He looks at you, astonished at first. “I don’t do that sort of thing.” He stammers out.

“That’s what makes it so good. You don’t”

You lean over and kiss him.

Two hours later the two of you leave the small creek with grins on your faces. You introduce hoops to the other member of Them Gays.

[Blade6119]

Well, i was right about hoops...i wasnt going to get ironhead though. Good game everyone...i thought the game mechanics were a little off(just my personal opinion, knowing they could in fact convert). Maybe it would have been different if we had a few things go different(like chief not missing scans, ITC not rescanning tyrith, etc). Good game evil

[Abe Sargent]

Find Ally Blade. You leave an evening party, pausing to touch yourself briefly as you see two men in this town gently kiss each other on the cheek goodnight. Does everyone in this town have secret homoerotic tendencies? Sometimes you wonder.

You follow Blade as he heads back to his house. You pause as he moves into a well lit area, hanging back in the shadow. All of the sudden, he’s gone. He was walking through the shadow of a tree, and disappeared!

You run forward to where he was, and you can’t sense anything! You are certain that he never saw you, he must have simply eluded your presence automatically. You doubt you’d ever be able to find him at night.

[Abe Sargent]

Well, i was right about hoops...i wasnt going to get ironhead though. Good game everyone...i thought the game mechanics were a little off(just my personal opinion, knowing they could in fact convert). Maybe it would have been different if we had a few things go different(like chief not missing scans, ITC not rescanning tyrith, etc). Good game evil

I thought there'd be more peops on the List by messing up and what not - you folks had good self-control!

[st.cronin]

*sob*

[Abe Sargent]

The official Them Gays primer:


Them Gays, Rules:

You are all members of Them Gays. Some of you are even gay yourselves! You are all trying to pretend as if you are straight, conservative, normal members of Almost Heaven, West Virginia. Therefore, you are to do everything you can to abide by the rules of the town, including not appearing as liberal in any way.

During night, the head member of Them Gays will be required to turn in a night action for the entire group. If the head member is killed, the new one will be chosen at random from among the group.

You have been followed at your secret meetings by someone else, but you have no idea who that person or people is/are.

You may pm each other at will.

You win if Them Gays is equal to the number of remaining Fightin’ Fundies remaining. Allies are still Fundies and count as them for purposes of winning.

Your night abilities:

Gay Conversion: Once during the game you can attempt a night conversion where you try to seduce a member of the town into joining your side. To do this action, there must be an actor among you to be chosen. If your target is female, then your actor must be female. If male, then your actor must be male. There is a chance this will fail in rare circumstances, but you are pretty proud of your secret hotness, and do not expect the normal people of Almost Heaven to be able to resist you. You may not take this action until at least Night Two. (Sample pm action: SkyDog will Gay Convert Subby. Sincerely, MrSkippy.)

Find Allies: An actor among Them Gays must be chosen. That person will then talk to a target of your choice and use code words to feel them out. If they are secretly an ally of your group, you will find out. Depending on the ally, what benefit this will be to you will change, and you won’t always know what it is. Only a few people can be true allies.








You'll note that Them Gays do NOT have the ability to night kill. Why is that?

[Abe Sargent]

Brother Richard Baker, Trustee – You are secretly a member of Them Gays, but they do not know it. At night, you follow Them Gays and observe them from afar. You have become so twisted over time by the Fightin’ Fundies and their propaganda that you have decided to send them to their maker.

Each night, you may take a “Vengeance Killing” action and choose a target. If you try to kill a member of Them Gays, you will be revealed to their faction and they will know who you are and what your powers are. You will not kill that person, however.



This was Ironhead's role. Only he had night kill powers. Kill him, and then after Night three, Them Gays would have gotten a minor killing power to revenge him, but nothing serious.


Congrats to Ironhead for winning his first game!

[Blade6119]

Wait...then how did ITC see ironhead sleep through the night if he was the one killing?

[hoopsguy]

The game ended up being a little more suspenseful down the stretch than I expected. If we had taken out Chief instead of Path a couple of days back I think it would have been a rout. I was converted on Night 2, not on Night 1, and kept my ability to pull someone off the liberal list at night. Which is what Lathum was counting on with his Duke bluff. But that didn't work when Chief put him on the list at night.

I thought Ironhead played a really, really good game behind the scenes although he wasn't that active here. But he did a terrific job of seeing what the right move was, and why, in our IM conversations.

I'm off to bed early tonight, but will be around to answer questions either early tomorrow morning or late tomorrow night. Glad that the game is not going tomorrow because I really am out of the loop for the whole day.

[hoopsguy]

Wait...then how did ITC see ironhead sleep through the night if he was the one killing?

Something that I wondered about as well - we had no clue what the heck was going on with ITC.

[Blade6119]

Something that I wondered about as well - we had no clue what the heck was going on with ITC.

And did iron try to kill one of the gays on night one? How else did you get to talk with him?

[hoopsguy]

Another of my favs:


Gay Conversion hoopsguy. You decide to wait until the cover of darkness. Tonight you see that hoops’s guitar lays in its case. He is down by the creek, making a dam for fun, watching the waters destroy it, and then building it back up again.

You help him out, and for fifteen minutes, you are building the dam, using sand and dirt and rocks to build it up, and then laughing as the water goes over it and breaks it down.

You laugh and splash each other gently with the water. You use the opportunity to slip closer to him. He says that it was a lot of fun building the dams. You point out to him that’s the beauty of life, to try out new things. He nods.

You stroke his hair gently, and then say, “I’d like to fuck you.”

He looks at you, astonished at first. “I don’t do that sort of thing.” He stammers out.

“That’s what makes it so good. You don’t”

You lean over and kiss him.

Two hours later the two of you leave the small creek with grins on your faces. You introduce hoops to the other member of Them Gays.

Not one of my favorites, especially after having voted for Gays for the first two days and then learning that my co-conspirators were all on the LSG vote. I was not pleased with the easy linkage that was out there, so I made sure to antagonize Lathum in the thread to try and create some separation between us while hoping that there was some anecdotal clearing of Ironhead through the LSG vote.

I hate being converted, as a general rule. And especially when I'm having some success finding bad guys.

[hoopsguy]

And did iron try to kill one of the gays on night one? How else did you get to talk with him?

He went to kill LSG on Night 1, so he joined Club Gay that evening and came into the PM conversation. They converted me the next night.

So the Gays had a really, really strong run of events the first two nights. I thought we were going to be almost untouchable with me able to take people off the list every night and asked Anxiety if his rule set was broken at one point.

[Ironhead]

Thanks everyone, it was a blast playing. There was no kill on Night 1 because I targeted LoneStarGirl and she ended up being one of Them Gays, so I joined up with them that night.

Blade - I came to the conclusion the night before I killed Tyrith that ITC was bluffing his ability in some fashion. The last day or so was getting pretty suspenseful because I wasn't sure if there was still a bodyguard out there. I figured if anyone was the bodyguard it must have been ITC and I figured he wouldn't think to guard himself so he became the target for tonight.

[st.cronin]

I don't think it would have mattered but I was disappointed that nobody prosecuted DT's strategy of getting every player on the liberal list. It seemed to me obviously the right strategy early on.

[Blade6119]

I think the rules are a bit off in my opinion...but i still dont know why ITC saw ironhead sleeping, which he wasnt. That was a major blow to our side...and i think the whole 1 lynch vote overides the other votes was also messed up.

At the same time, 2 of our 3 seers, in my opinion, mismanaged their roles fairly badly(chief missing scans, ITC rescanning tyrith and apparently not knowing ironhead was out killing, not sleeping). And if we had a BG, i didnt hear from him.

So i think it was part poor play by good(me included) and part a tad unfair rules.

I will say this to ironhead, for future games. Your vote on NTN, when you said you were just going to follow the groups wishes or whatever it was, screamed wolf before and especially after the lynch. The ITC clearing, which we now know was totally wrong, offset it, but you may want to try to avoid such comments in the future.

I think lathum buying the free day against our wishes won it, as tomorrow would have been hoops' death and then after that we would have likely turned on ironhead. So we were heading down the right path, just a day late to make a difference.

[Blade6119]

And not to be critical of anxiety, im sorry if i was there. Thank you for running an entertaining game and i appreciate it dearly. Thanks buddy!

[DaddyTorgo]

dammit. Bummed to see that we couldn't pull it out guys.

[Ironhead]

I agree my last vote was a little obvious. Even if no one else voted with me I was still going to stone ntn and take the chances with the night kill. I felt either we needed to win it tonight or things would get really messy and we would probably lose. I will keep the tip in mind though. :)

[Chief Rum]

Interesting game, Anxiety. Although we lost, I enjoyed playing a lot.

As for mismanaging scans, well, there was nothing I could do about Night 0. PM roles went out and the Night 0 was over before I got home from work. So there was nothing for me to mismanage there. Just bad luck.

Night One I should have seen that Anxiety would continue to do quick night phases, though. If I had, I would have sent in a conditional order on Day One, so we had a scan that night. I unfortunately assumed it would be a standard 6 a.m./6 p.m. (PDT) turnaround and that I could get my night action in when I came home from work late at night. Anxiety was running his night phases, though at 11 p.m. my time, at least an hour and a half before I could get home. I sent in conditionals every day after that.

I think we were hurt a bit by Blade's outward play. The combo of his role and his usual mystery in his play led us as seers to concentrate on him too much, and he should have been a little more forward about his role from the getgo,. IMO. Really, his role did us no godo at all, and he should have seen it only would lead us to confusaion. If he had sacrificed hismelf early, we might have had a better chance. Or at least played a quieter game (although given past history, I am sure we would have found that very suspicious).

[Blade6119]

Im still wondering how ITC saw ironhead sleeping through the night when ironhead was really out butchering people.

I also wouldnt mind seeing a full list of roles

[Abe Sargent]

And not to be critical of anxiety, im sorry if i was there. Thank you for running an entertaining game and i appreciate it dearly. Thanks buddy!

A good GM is open to criticism. And a good GM is willing to admit mistakes.


I am not a good GM yet, but I hope to be.

I felt my small game was better than this one, this was better than my Magic one, and my LOTR one was a hit outta the park. Don't know if I'll ever equal that one.

[Tyrith]

Personally, I think it was a highly interesting theme, and well run from a story side. The concept of having only an ally killer is interesting, but seems like it could have introduced a lot of variance into the game. As it stands, though, we had to face 4 bad guys against 10 good guys total and we never really had a chance, especially seeing that one was a convert and was thus missed in a scan. Overall I really like a lot of the ideas, but the numbers we just...weird. Would liked to have seen it as the 20 man game you originally intended it as, Abe.

[Abe Sargent]

Wait...then how did ITC see ironhead sleep through the night if he was the one killing?

This is what my pm said to ITC on teh night in question:


"BG Ironhead. You find Ironhead’s house near the center of town. You sit down on a porch inside the shadow on another house with a good outlook over his house. You wait all night but see nothing at all. "


No, you see him in his house or anything like that, no you see him lying in bed, etc, but merely you watch his house and see nothing.


Now, on the night that Tyrith scans ITC AND ITC is guarding Tyrith, they find each other:


Protect Tyrith. You follow Tyrith to his house. You again take your place on the hillock and observe. No one can approach the house without passing under your vision.

Later that night, Tyrith himself leaves the house, sees you, and sits down to talk. About ten minutes pass while you chat, and he heads back to bed. Nothing else happens all night long


Investigate I’mtheCrew. You head back to your house as evening closes. You say your prayers, and then head out, intent to finding ITC.

You exit your house and allow your eyes to adjust the light. You turn to see what phase the moon is in when you see someone sitting on a hill that overlooks your house. Curious, you head up there and see ITC sitting there, calm.

You sit down with him and talk for around ten minutes. Unlike previous night, you have no need to break into his place or observe him from afar. His open demeanor is obvious. He is a member of the Fightin’ Fundies.



One important thing about ITC's role was that he would stop anybody who tried, for any reason, to appraoch his target. It never said that he would observe targets as a pseudo-witness role or stop them from interacting with other:


Brother Roger Shepherd, Groundskeeper: You are the groundskeeper of the church. Because you are the strongest member of the congregation, you have taken it upon yourself to act as a Guardian of the Right at night time. During each Night Action, you may submit a name to me for you to protect. If anyone, for any reason, tries to approach that person, whether for good or ill, you will stop them. You will know who that person is, and they will know you, but you will not know their purpose. You are married to Elizabeth Shepherd and father of Elijah Shepherd.



Now, in retrospect, I could have been more explicit I beleive.

[Abe Sargent]

One of hte roles I cut out was a person who had a Jewish name and was a secret Jew. If anyone called the person a Jew or asked about it, that person would have been placed on a newly discovered Jew List and had to be voted to stone before you could vote to stone any liberals.

[hoopsguy]

I'm not sure the Ironhead sleeping thing impacted the game outcome. He would have voted to stone NTN and that would have achieved the same result. It then would have come down to ITC guarding the right person knowing who evil was, as opposed to not knowing who he was playing against.

[Lathum]

Thanks for runninh the game Anxiety. I had fun stalling everyone and basicly being a wolf out in the open.

The only critisizem I have is CR's role with the ability to put someone on the liberal list overnight. There really weren't alot of people on the liberal list so if you were the one person on it you were guarenteed dead. I thought that basicly gave CR killing power.

I'm bummed we never got the chance to Duke me. It would have bought me another day and created alot of interesting discussion. I would have been curious is I would have been able to turn things on Tyrith.

[Tyrith]

Oh, yeah, and a duke getting converted keeping the duke power is really pretty broken, IMO.

[ImTheCrew]

sorry guys i assumed my role would tell me if the person i protected left the house and like hoops said regardless inless i guarded the right person it was over anyways ( and i dont think i cant protect myself)

[ImTheCrew]

Thansk for the game anxiety it was fun

[Blade6119]

EDIT: moot point

[path12]

Thanks for running the game Abe, I enjoyed it even though I was sorry for not being around more in the evenings for discussion. And congrats to evil for a well-played game.

So why was I night killed? I figured I was going to be getting some daytime scrutiny soon and was surprised to be a night victim......

[ntndeacon]

I enjoyed the game a lot Anxiety.

[hoopsguy]

Path, on topic of night kill here are my thoughts (Ironhead may have others). We basically wanted to avoid people who were likely to have a bodyguard near them. We knew at that point we couldn't get Blade. At that point I believe the options were you, Chief, NTN, and ImTheCrew. We felt like there was a reasonable chance that Crew would be guarded since the seer had mentioned him as cleared. So it was basically picking where the bodyguard would not be. Plus you tend to be a tough out late in games, so I know I endorsed you as the choice at that point.

[Ironhead]

That about sums it up. As the game got closer to the end the night kills became more about getting a sure kill and less about removing someone who might draw suspicion. We probably would have taken a different strategy if 1) a day lynch didn't require 2 days and 2) hoopsguy had not been cleared by the seer.