Werewolf Small game XII- The game thread. GAME OVER VILLAGERS WIN!

[hoopsguy]

Alan, you said earlier you think KWhit is good and that Cronin and I are wolves. Yet now you potentially have the ability to control this vote and you are trying to push it off on DT to lynch me.

This after blowing off the vote last night - I seriously do not understand what the heck you are doing if you are a villager.

[KWhit]

That sucks that you guys are about to kill a perfectly good villegar.

:)

[KWhit]

Alan, you said earlier you think KWhit is good and that Cronin and I are wolves. Yet now you potentially have the ability to control this vote and you are trying to push it off on DT to lynch me.

This after blowing off the vote last night - I seriously do not understand what the heck you are doing if you are a villager.


I'm agree.

:(

[hoopsguy]

You are doing a terrific job as a sorcerer stand-in, Alan. Creating more dissent than the real one did.

[KWhit]

Still time for a switch, Alan.

:)

[KWhit]

But time's wastin'!

[KWhit]

Looks at watch....

[KWhit]

Um... Guys?

[KWhit]

Hello?

[hoopsguy]

UNVOTE ST.CRONIN
VOTE KWHIT

[KWhit]

Rosebud.......

[hoopsguy]

KWhit, sorry it went this way - I waited as long as I could.

[Alan T]

Unvote Hoops
Vote St.cronin

[hoopsguy]

UNVOTE KWHIT
VOTE ST.CRONIN

[Alan T]

blah hoops

[DaddyTorgo]

late switch by hoops

[KWhit]

That worked out REALLY WELL....

Sheesh.

[Alan T]

ok you changed it back

[Lathum]

deadline

[DaddyTorgo]

dammit. Can't get a vote in time

[KWhit]

Do votes at 10:30 count?

[DaddyTorgo]

ok...wtf was with that? what was going on?

[Lathum]

gonna take a minute because of the late switching

[Lathum]

Do votes at 10:30 count?

yes

[hoopsguy]

That was me doing what I was trying to do from earlier - put the vote on the person I wanted to vote for instead of voting self-preservation.

The only person I 100% know is me, and I'm not helping the team getting voted off. So I've argued hard to try and benefit myself and the team. Hope that it shows a better result than the Day 1 vote.

[DaddyTorgo]

what was the attempt of the late switching there? i'm confused

[KWhit]

yes


WooHoo!

[KWhit]

That was me doing what I was trying to do from earlier - put the vote on the person I wanted to vote for instead of voting self-preservation.

The only person I 100% know is me, and I'm not helping the team getting voted off. So I've argued hard to try and benefit myself and the team. Hope that it shows a better result than the Day 1 vote.

Yeah. your late switch made sense. Almost screwed me, but it made sense.

:)

[KWhit]

That was interesting. I think we learned some things about some people there at the end.

[hoopsguy]

what was the attempt of the late switching there? i'm confused

If KWhit switches out of self-preservation then I would have been dead. So I was covering myself when it appeared that Alan was not moving his vote to Cronin.

Some moderators count the XX:30 votes, others do not. So I waited until XX:29 to protect myself after giving Alan (or anyone else who came around) the opportunity to protect KWhit earlier.

When I saw Alan's XX:30 vote, I immediately switched back to where my initial vote went.

[DaddyTorgo]

If KWhit switches out of self-preservation then I would have been dead. So I was covering myself when it appeared that Alan was not moving his vote to Cronin.

Some moderators count the XX:30 votes, others do not. So I waited until XX:29 to protect myself after giving Alan (or anyone else who came around) the opportunity to protect KWhit earlier.

When I saw Alan's XX:30 vote, I immediately switched back to where my initial vote went.


aaaah okay. gotcha

[Alan T]

Hoops was my #1 target, I wanted DT and Kwhit to switch to him. They didn't, so I chose my #2 choice. I prefered to have voted hoops there though.

[Lathum]

Among all the confusion in the end you all decide St. Cronin must die. You string him up, sure he is a wolf, you slam a steak through his heart as he goes limp. A quick search of his luggage reveal a tennessee vols hat, and envelope adressed to ardententhusiest and a gun with silver bullets. St.Cronin was the hunter!!!


Kwhit 3( St.Cronin 117, Peregrine 128, NTNDeacon 213,
Hoopsguy 2 (Path 175, sndvls 186,
St. Cronin 4 ( , Kwhit 220, Daddytorgo 222, AlanT 263, hoopsguy 264

night 2 has begun. deadline 10:00 AM EST

[DaddyTorgo]

Hoops was my #1 target, I wanted DT and Kwhit to switch to him. They didn't, so I chose my #2 choice. I prefered to have voted hoops there though.


weren't hoops+cronin your two suspected wolves though? or am I misremembering?

[DaddyTorgo]

dammit

[KWhit]

Well, crap.

[hoopsguy]

Hot. Let's try this again - I would like the seer to scan Path this evening if they are taking suggestions. I'm fine with being scanned, but it won't net us a wolf.

There was not a whole lot of help being offered to either of the candidates late in this race. Not much reason for a wolf to move between at least two of the candidates here, maybe all three. But I didn't get a sense that KWhit had forces working on his behalf either as I watched this vote transpire.

[path12]

Hot. Let's try this again - I would like the seer to scan Path this evening if they are taking suggestions. I'm fine with being scanned, but it won't net us a wolf.

There was not a whole lot of help being offered to either of the candidates late in this race. Not much reason for a wolf to move between at least two of the candidates here, maybe all three. But I didn't get a sense that KWhit had forces working on his behalf either as I watched this vote transpire.

Fine, scan me. I'm clear. You're getting my vote again tomorrow if you don't kill me tonight.

[path12]

Actually, don't bother scanning me. We all know what happened to the last person hoops suggested scanning. I'm a goner. But that was a wolf switch at the end.

[st.cronin]

I sure hope I did the right thing by not revealing. :mad:

[DaddyTorgo]

I sure hope I did the right thing by not revealing. :mad:

hopefully we can still pull a win out C.

[Peregrine]

Ugh, one more gone, the Hunter. This really sucks for the good guys. We need to be really careful with tomorrow's vote (depending on who's left alive, of course) and see if we can reach some kind of consensus on a good candidate or we're going to lose.

[hoopsguy]

I sure hope I did the right thing by not revealing. :mad:

In a game with no bodyguard about the only thing you could hope for is that the reveal gives a better shot at a wolf that day - they can pick you off at night without fear or leave you for another day while chasing the seer to put doubt on you. Tough spot to be in, no doubt.

[hoopsguy]

It appears that the wolves have once again devoured Lathum :confused:

[DaddyTorgo]

my day is all over the place...I will likely be in an out but will try to keep up on my phone. thank god its just a small game!

[ntndeacon]

Great! Just what we need! There goes our advantage at the end of the game. Odds are good however that we have only a villager killed tonight.

[SnDvls]

no night kill alright !!!! :D ;)

[path12]

I sure hope I did the right thing by not revealing. :mad:

I'm of the belief that the hunter should never reveal. It does no good.

[Lathum]

overslept, results coming

[Lathum]

The night passes quickly, with most of you exhausted from the fight against St.Cronin. When you wake up, one of you isn't there at the breakfast table for the delicious oatmeal and cold tea. SNDVLS has been killed during the night. He is yet another villager lost to the rampaging werewolfs.

[Alan T]

Well didnt get to lynch who I wanted to yesterday because of the tiebreaker.. so I'll try to work around that today.

Vote DaddyTorgo

Of course maybe I'll change my mind later and make this redundant anyways.

[DaddyTorgo]

so i'm who you wanted to lynch yesterday alan??

[path12]

VOTE HOOPSGUY

As promised.

[DaddyTorgo]

Alan's play this game has been very unusual. Normally I steer clear of voting for him because I think he adds a lot even when he's wrong, but this game he's just been...weird.

[hoopsguy]

Alan, why DaddyT to start the voting today? You had mentioned me as your primary target yesterday post-vote ...

From where I sit, you have changed your targets each day.
Day 1: KWhit
Day 2: Me and Cronin
Day 3: coming out voting DaddyT

I'm doing a lousy job of voting for wolves as well, so I'm not trying to call you out for voting poorly. But I am trying to figure out why the changes in direction?

If you are the seer and have viewed me and KWhit each of the last two nights - which is one explanation that would make sense to me, and is a big part of the reason I shied away from KWhit yesterday - then coming out and saying so would be a big help. Then we would have a group of three people cleared today and two people cleared tomorrow (assuming they went after you tonight).

Benefits:
- Three people cleared, two wolves among seven remaining players today
- Two cleared, 1-2 wolves among five players tomorrow

If I'm reading the tea leaves correctly then I strongly feel that this is the time to come out. If you aren't the seer, shoot this down and I put KWhit back on the table of people to evaluate today. Or if you are the seer and don't have two live people to clear, then lie and tell me that you aren't the seer and call me a wolf for trying to "out" the seer. But at this stage of the game if the seer can build us a 3-man CoT with 7 remaining we can start taking control of the game again.

[hoopsguy]

VOTE HOOPSGUY

As promised.

Tell you what, why don't you build the case against me instead of "I promised to vote for you". We've got more material to review at this point than we did yesterday, so you should be able to come up with something that sounds decent by now, right?

[Alan T]

so i'm who you wanted to lynch yesterday alan??

Nah, the person I wanted to lynch yesterday was Hoops. I couldn't lynch him because of the tiebreaker rule (oldest vote cronin had on kwhit) preventing me any way of getting Hoops lynched without you and Kwhit switching.

I sat here thinking through various scenerios while we waited for Lathum to post the results. I told myself:

If Path died - Stick with Hoops vote
If anyone else died - go with you.

I think I've talked myself into believing that kwhit was good. No one at all came to save him yesterday until I did at the end. If he was a wolf, I have a hard time believing that someone wouldn't have found some reason or way to save him when it was in a 3 way tie at the end there. That was one of my reasons for putting it into a 3 way tie, it gave many different ways out if Kwhit was a wolf.. No one took any of them.. I don't think he is a wolf.

I don't know how I feel about Hoops, I still think he's been playing different than I would expect. I don't know why that is, and sitll feel he could be a wolf. The thing though is, if he is a wolf, people know how stubborn I get, when I make up my mind on something I stick through it right or wrong, it is my fatal flaw. I assume most people trust that I am good right now, and the wolves know that... so why am I not dead yet? maybe they dont assume I am the seer, so trying to find who that is elsewhere.. or maybe they just are leaving me alive to continue my crusade against hoops. Path seemed pretty strong minded as well to go after hoops again today too, so if I didnt die, why not target path last night either? Two really strong minded votes for hoops still around tell me Hoops has a good shot at dying today. Maybe that is what the wolves want...

If it comes down to a hoops vs someone else vote, I dont think i would mind switching to him instead of others, but I figured I would see how voting for DT today played out.

DT came up with a whole bunch of comments that he didn't stick by later on. DT had the chance to change the vote however he wanted yesterday, but he stuck with it seemingly not wanting to stir the water.. Maybe I should learn something from Cronin in WW afterall, and his comment about a wolf being afraid to stir the water might apply here.

[Alan T]

Alan, why DaddyT to start the voting today? You had mentioned me as your primary target yesterday post-vote ...

From where I sit, you have changed your targets each day.
Day 1: KWhit
Day 2: Me and Cronin
Day 3: coming out voting DaddyT

I'm doing a lousy job of voting for wolves as well, so I'm not trying to call you out for voting poorly. But I am trying to figure out why the changes in direction?

If you are the seer and have viewed me and KWhit each of the last two nights - which is one explanation that would make sense to me, and is a big part of the reason I shied away from KWhit yesterday - then coming out and saying so would be a big help. Then we would have a group of three people cleared today and two people cleared tomorrow (assuming they went after you tonight).

Benefits:
- Three people cleared, two wolves among seven remaining players today
- Two cleared, 1-2 wolves among five players tomorrow

If I'm reading the tea leaves correctly then I strongly feel that this is the time to come out. If you aren't the seer, shoot this down and I put KWhit back on the table of people to evaluate today. Or if you are the seer and don't have two live people to clear, then lie and tell me that you aren't the seer and call me a wolf for trying to "out" the seer. But at this stage of the game if the seer can build us a 3-man CoT with 7 remaining we can start taking control of the game again.

I'm not the seer, and Im not just saying that to fall into your code slang above. I still think you might be bad, but I wanted to see how pushing DT would go today. Like my post above stated, I did change a bit how I felt about Kwhit and gave my reasons why. I feel better about you being a wolf still because you did have protection. I know you purposely had your vote back on Cronin to give yourself buffer room in case of late switches. You never had any real heat as you could protect your self at any time, and only short of Both Kwhit and DaddyTorgo switching votes did you have any chance of falling in for the lynch. You seemed really comfortable with that cushion yesterday so I feel completely different about Kwhit than you. No one came to save kwhit yesterday and anyone could have in many ways that wouldn't have looked suspicious at all.

I dont know if you are a wolf, I dont know if DaddyTorgo is a wolf, but I want to see how this plays out a bit today.

[DaddyTorgo]

i didn't stir the waters because as i told kwit i didn't feel strongly either way between him and hoops. i didn't have any insight. and something about him struck me as off earlier in the game, hence my earlier votes for him. so i wasn't about to go back on those.

i've stuck by my comments. and i still stick by all of them. some of them i've just tried to clarify because i havn't explained them perhaps as clearly as i could. lord knows as a wolf i'm not afraid to stir the waters, when i'm a wolf. i tend to be more passive as a villager actually, as i think a lot of people would bear out.

if anything, your still being alive and your bouncing from target to target raises more questions about you then my sticking with my vote on kwit (even if he is good, which i'm not the seer so i have no knowledge of).

i admit i was very confused around 10:30 last night too, with what the purpose of all the switching was. had someone said "DT...switch here and it will accomplish this" i would have considered it, but my head was spinning as it was.

[Alan T]

i didn't stir the waters because as i told kwit i didn't feel strongly either way between him and hoops. i didn't have any insight. and something about him struck me as off earlier in the game, hence my earlier votes for him. so i wasn't about to go back on those.

i've stuck by my comments. and i still stick by all of them. some of them i've just tried to clarify because i havn't explained them perhaps as clearly as i could. lord knows as a wolf i'm not afraid to stir the waters, when i'm a wolf. i tend to be more passive as a villager actually, as i think a lot of people would bear out.

if anything, your still being alive and your bouncing from target to target raises more questions about you then my sticking with my vote on kwit (even if he is good, which i'm not the seer so i have no knowledge of).

i admit i was very confused around 10:30 last night too, with what the purpose of all the switching was. had someone said "DT...switch here and it will accomplish this" i would have considered it, but my head was spinning as it was.


I don't buy the last part at all. I made it pretty clear what the scenerio was. 3 way tie with hoops, Cronin and kwhit all tied. I made it clear that Hoops was my #1 choice and Cronin #2 choice. kwhit asked me to switch to cronin to save him (and hoops) and I said no I would prefer him and you switch to hoops instead. Kwhit asked you about it some and time ticked away and you suddenly went quiet. I even said I tossed it back in your court to do something with. You hid basically.

Finally at 10:30 since nothing else happened, I switch to my second choice since you refused to help me lynch my first choice.

[Alan T]

One small correction on my last post. I said last night I tossed it back in Kwhit's court not DT's. Either way, it was pretty obvious what the scenerio was DT. If your head was spinning from this? then well I don't know what to tell you. It appeared more to me that you were happy with how the vote was locked up and you didnt have any desire to move it.

DT, you around?

yes i'm here.

Alan,

Any chance of you moving your vote to st.cronin?

Alan needs to switch to st.cronin or DT (and me) needs to switch to hoopsguy or I'm getting lynched tonight.

DT seemed to suggest you and he made a good voting block. Maybe he still believes that enough to change his vote with you. Unless he was just full of hot air :)

I don't have any real reason to think hoops is a wolf, but I have no real trust in him either.

Are you open to moving your vote to hoops, DT?

over you kwit? I just don't know. I don't have any particular massive wolfish-vibe off either of the two of you.

alan, stop misinterperting what I said...i was just saying that kwit+you+me were a large voting block, not that any of us were communicating or anything.

[hoopsguy]

My thoughts on the seer remain the same, whether it is Alan or someone else. I think our strongest opportunity to win the game is if the seer can reveal themselves and two people today. So for whoever that person is, please consider this line of thought.

I'm pretty close to certain that Path isn't the seer. If we disagreed on a point enough for him to vote for me, and I then suggested that the seer scan himself, I would expect him to target me last night. That clearly hasn't happened as he came out firing on me again today. So right now I'm thinking that he represents our best bet for today - I'm as certain as I can be (which is less than 100%) that I would not be lynching the seer.

Alan, it is interesting that you didn't think I was under pressure yesterday. From where I sat, it felt like I was. But I tried to put it aside and act consistently in the best interests of the group, based on the info I had at the time.

VOTE PATH12

[Peregrine]

Okay, here we go.

I'm the Seer.

I'm clear, obviously.

Night 1 I scanned Hooopsguy, he's clear.

Night 2 I scanned Kwhit, he's clear.

So the two wolves are hiding in the list of

Path12
DaddyTorgo
Alan T
ntndeacon

Obviously I'll die tonight, but I think our odds are decent. Path12 was the only one of the four of them to vote for one of the winning candidates in Day 1.

[Alan T]

My thoughts on the seer remain the same, whether it is Alan or someone else. I think our strongest opportunity to win the game is if the seer can reveal themselves and two people today. So for whoever that person is, please consider this line of thought.

I'm pretty close to certain that Path isn't the seer. If we disagreed on a point enough for him to vote for me, and I then suggested that the seer scan himself, I would expect him to target me last night. That clearly hasn't happened as he came out firing on me again today. So right now I'm thinking that he represents our best bet for today - I'm as certain as I can be (which is less than 100%) that I would not be lynching the seer.

Alan, it is interesting that you didn't think I was under pressure yesterday. From where I sat, it felt like I was. But I tried to put it aside and act consistently in the best interests of the group, based on the info I had at the time.

VOTE PATH12


When I say you wern't under pressure yesterday, what I refer to is that I don't believe at any time were you in immediate danger of being lynched. The closest you ever got was tied up with you still having the ability to move your vote to protect yourself. Kwhit always either was tied with you or led you in votes AND had the lynch tiebreaker working against him. I didn't see at any point a place where anyone stood up and took a stand to protect you. The closest to that was when DT wanted to vote Cronin over you which didn't necessarily save you, but it did protect you.

[Alan T]

Okay, here we go.

I'm the Seer.

I'm clear, obviously.

Night 1 I scanned Hooopsguy, he's clear.

Night 2 I scanned Kwhit, he's clear.

So the two wolves are hiding in the list of

Path12
DaddyTorgo
Alan T
ntndeacon

Obviously I'll die tonight, but I think our odds are decent. Path12 was the only one of the four of them to vote for one of the winning candidates in Day 1.

So in other words what you are telling me is that the past two days I've done a pretty horrible job of picking my targets. If I am continuing to form that probably means DT isnt the wolf either and its Path + ntndeacon as the last two wolves. :)

[Peregrine]

I should add that I have some amount of (maybe misguided) trust in Alan T. With the villegar PM thing, and his lack of a last-minute vote switch to save himself yesterday, he seems innocent to me.

[Peregrine]

Oh yes, also now that I've revealed, I can reveal my small bit of cleverness. I'm sure it didn't tip anyone off, but in case of having to fight off a false reveal, I included the word see somewhere in almost all of my posts in the game. Just in case.

[Alan T]

I should add that I have some amount of (maybe misguided) trust in Alan T. With the villegar PM thing, and his lack of a last-minute vote switch to save himself yesterday, he seems innocent to me.


I really don't want to use the whole villegar thing as some crutch to lean on for my proof. I feel dirty about that whole thing. It was an honest mistake and I meant it more as a joke for Lathum than anything else. Please don't judge my innocence or guilt based on that. Like Lathum posted, even Molly's PM had it mispelled in it. Also I wasn't on the line for the vote yesterday and did switch my vote last minute, so not sure what your latter part of your post meant about me... :confused:

I have obviously not been right about my arguements or discussion, but I have at least been consistant for my reasons for them thus far. I'm not sure if I want to move my vote from DT elsewhere or not just yet, but think I'll keep it on him for at least a while since it can win tiebreakers if the need comes up.

[Peregrine]

Hmm, so you did Alan T. Well, much less trust now then.

[DaddyTorgo]

i was happy with the way the vote was locked up because i didn't have a preference between the two of them (hoops+kwhit).

that being said

VOTE ALAN T


he's been playing this game strange-strange-strange from where i sit, and now it appears he's on the short list if we are to believe peregrine.

i feel better about lynching him (strange strange) than i do me (villager) obviously.

[Alan T]

i was happy with the way the vote was locked up because i didn't have a preference between the two of them (hoops+kwhit).

that being said

VOTE ALAN T


he's been playing this game strange-strange-strange from where i sit, and now it appears he's on the short list if we are to believe peregrine.

i feel better about lynching him (strange strange) than i do me (villager) obviously.

Sure, I've given detailed reasons for all of my actions, while you have given reasons that your head was spinning, or you don't know or such for many of yours. But I'm the one playing strange :)

[hoopsguy]

Peregrine, I had you as the second-most likely person to be the seer because you avoided discussions on me yesterday. So I let myself hope that you had scanned me on Night 1. I put out a post noting that "I'm glad Peregrine went to bed so he can't switch up to vote for me" and hoped that wouldn't set the wolves in your direction.

[hoopsguy]

I feel pretty good about where my vote sits now if no one disputes Peregrine's reveal. Path would be more than willing to orchestrate in the manner that events went down over the last 24 hours. He had a vote on one of the two leading vote getters on Day 1.

I think I would have Alan lower on the list than NTN and DT. Not sure what order I have those two ranked - depends on how much sneakiness I'm giving DT credit for with his actions. I guess I would lean towards NTN, but could be convinced to go another direction. If it is DT then that would imply the vote/unvote game that Path and DT played yesterday in the early part of the day was staged.

[Peregrine]

Personally I'm on board with Path also, at this point anyway.

vote path12

[DaddyTorgo]

Sure, I've given detailed reasons for all of my actions, while you have given reasons that your head was spinning, or you don't know or such for many of yours. But I'm the one playing strange :)

nah. i just don't...type as much as you about every little detail.

[KWhit]

I was feeling pretty suspicious of DT last night. Thinking he was prodding me and Alan into commiting to a voting decision before he would put down his own vote. He seemed very non-committal in general on everything. It's like he wanted to see which way we were going to go before making a stand.

However, I don't think that's really wolfinsh behaviour in this particular instance because everyone who was on the block are villagers (all 3 of us). So he easily could have just dropped a vote, had a little discussion and not drawn attention to himself like he did.

I don't trust DT by any means, but I feel less suspicious of him than I did.

So instead:

Vote Path12

[KWhit]

Fine, scan me. I'm clear. You're getting my vote again tomorrow if you don't kill me tonight.

Actually, don't bother scanning me. We all know what happened to the last person hoops suggested scanning. I'm a goner. But that was a wolf switch at the end.

This raised red flags when I first read it. These posts were back to back about 2 minutes apart.

When I'm a villager, I love to be scanned.

[DaddyTorgo]

I was feeling pretty suspicious of DT last night. Thinking he was prodding me and Alan into commiting to a voting decision before he would put down his own vote. He seemed very non-committal in general on everything. It's like he wanted to see which way we were going to go before making a stand.

However, I don't think that's really wolfinsh behaviour in this particular instance because everyone who was on the block are villagers (all 3 of us). So he easily could have just dropped a vote, had a little discussion and not drawn attention to himself like he did.

I don't trust DT by any means, but I feel less suspicious of him than I did.

So instead:

Vote Path12

*cries* why won't people trust me?

don't mind me...i'm an emotional mess right now anyways.

[SnDvls]

The night passes quickly, with most of you exhausted from the fight against St.Cronin. When you wake up, one of you isn't there at the breakfast table for the delicious oatmeal and cold tea. SNDVLS has been killed during the night. He is yet another villager lost to the rampaging werewolfs.

BASTARDS!!!

[path12]

*shrug*

It'd be a ballsy play if Peregrine was a wolf, but that would be a move for tomorrow, not today. So I'll trust him for now.

I've got no defense to make. I am as vanilla as they come and thought I saw a tell from hoops so came out firing, but after an uncontested (so far) seer reveal I could obviously be wrong.

I'll go back to my original thinking:

UNVOTE HOOPS
VOTE DADDYTORGO

Lynch me today and a night kill of Peregrine and it's 3-2 tomorrow morning. Better be sure about me.

[hoopsguy]

What was the tell you thought you saw? I don't believe I have any :)

[path12]

What was the tell you thought you saw? I don't believe I have any :)

I'll keep it on file for now, it obviously needs some adjustment. ;)

[hoopsguy]

Can't fault a man for asking.

Path, rank the other candidates who haven't been cleared and give your reasons why. I'm willing to listen to reasons we should head towards DT (your current vote) or other candidates. If you do end up a wronged villager here I would like to understand what your thought process was over the first three days in light of today's reveal.

[path12]

OK, I'll be out for a bit but will when I get back.

[Alan T]

Right now the vote is:

(2) Daddytorgo - Alan (301), Path (330)
(3) Path12 - Hoopsguy (312), Peregrine (324), Kwhit (326)
(1) Alan - DaddyTorgo (320)


Trying to work out scenerios in my head.

DT will be able to place his vote on path to save himself, so right now the vote is basically 4-2 with only ntn left to vote a meaningless vote as things stand.

I wonder if one of Kwhit, Hoops or peregrine move their vote to DT, if it will help us learn more for tommorrow. Then it would be 3 DT, 2 Path but DT being able to move his vote to Path makes it 3-3 with Ntn then having to be the deciding vote.

Scenerios:

1) NTN + DT are wolves, NTN then would have to decide between killing Path as an innocent villager and helping us know who the last wolves are, or killing his team mate.

a) if Path dies as an innocent villager, it makes it 4-2, with night kill 3-2 but us knowing the last two wolves and having the numbers the rest of the way.
b) if DT dies as a wolf, it makes it 5-1 with night kill 4-1 but us then having to decide between Path and Ntn for the last wolf. Worst case would be 3-1 with wrong choice, then 2-1 after night kill and us still having numbers to finish it.

2) Path + Ntn are wolves together - Scenerios line up the same was as #1 just swap Path and DT in the speculations.

3) Path + DT are both wolves together

a) Either one of them die as a wolf, it gives us the same scenerio as 1B above.

I guess thinking things through, it doesnt really tell us much no matter what Ntn decides to do today or if we force his hand, we still end up with a question mark tommorrow. So guess moving the votes around right now isnt a huge deal after all.

[hoopsguy]

Alan, I'm not counting any vote from NTN as meaningless until he reports in and confirms he is not the seer. If he does challenge Peregrine then we have a much more different excercise for the remainder of our day.

I'm also willing to listen to Path. I've outlined my reasons for voting for him, but there was a risk mitigation component that he was not the seer that clinched voting for him versus another player (don't think I have named this person yet).

[ntndeacon]

right now I would think any vote from the 4 of us has to be looked on as misleading and meaningless.

[ntndeacon]

and I cannot refute what Perigrine has said. I am not the seer. I am bolstered in his truthfulness by his choice of seen. It fits with whom I would have viewed.

[hoopsguy]

Very good. No seer challenges makes today a lot easier. Peregrine, thanks for coming forward with that information. It is basically a death warrant for this evening, so hopefully we make good use of info you provided with our choice today.

I don't think a vote from the four players has to be looked on as meaningless/BS. Two of those four are villagers and should play their best villager game to help us out the rest of the way. If they turtle up and leave it for the three in the CoT to make all the decisions then they aren't helping win the game. And I can't believe it would be all that much fun to play along the rest of the way in that mode.

[Alan T]

The 4 uncleared voting patterns from the first two days:

Day1:

Ntn - Hoopsguy
Path - Peregrine
Daddytorgo - Kwhit
Alan - No vote

Day 2:

Ntn - Kwhit
Path - Hoopsguy
Daddytorgo - St.cronin
Alan - St.cronin

Obviously every single vote for a villager from everyone.

[ntndeacon]

Very good. No seer challenges makes today a lot easier. Peregrine, thanks for coming forward with that information. It is basically a death warrant for this evening, so hopefully we make good use of info you provided with our choice today.

I don't think a vote from the four players has to be looked on as meaningless/BS. Two of those four are villagers and should play their best villager game to help us out the rest of the way. If they turtle up and leave it for the three in the CoT to make all the decisions then they aren't helping win the game. And I can't believe it would be all that much fun to play along the rest of the way in that mode.

Ok. not meaningless. But all of our votes should be looked at under a microscope. Even moreso than normal.

[path12]

The 4 uncleared voting patterns from the first two days:

Day1:

Ntn - Hoopsguy
Path - Peregrine
Daddytorgo - Kwhit
Alan - No vote

Day 2:

Ntn - Kwhit
Path - Hoopsguy
Daddytorgo - St.cronin
Alan - St.cronin

Obviously every single vote for a villager from everyone.

I didn't vote for Peregrine day 1, I voted for Molly.

[path12]

So I just went back through the thread to look at the comments from Alan, DT and ntn. I have the luxury of knowing that I am vanilla, so I won't bother to comment on me.

The way I was looking at it was trying to figure out the one who wasn't a wolf which would leave me with the two who are.

The worst factor with Alan is the missed vote, IMO. If he was a wolf, that's a crappy position to be in, either way you are the deciding vote on a villager, or if you try to hide somewhere else it's way too obvious at that point -- so instead, go with the night kill of Molly and then play the "see, I told you they were both good so I didn't vote" route.

The mitigating factor is the argument with Hoops. Alan is always vocal, but that's an unneccessary thing to get into if you're a wolf. The 'villager' thing would have been a clever play. Lathum has misspelled that as long as I've played WW with him, so it would have been a percentage play to call it out -- and Alan and DT were the only ones who in their check in message did not say if they were a wolf or not. And I know Alan likes to not out and out lie whenever possible.

Bottom line, he could be a wolf. But I'm leaning that he's not.

Now DT is another story altogether. I'm almost positive he's a wolf. Go back and look through his posts and you see two things pop out. 1) He hasn't offered any analysis. Whether right or wrong, DT usually has some kind of theory. Not this game....as a matter of fact he's gone all over the place, repeating one idea and then doing the opposite. 2) There are multiple references to wolves. They strike me more as knowing than innocent. I will be very surprised if he is not bad this game.

ntn. I've got nothin'. He's a clever and careful player either way and leaves very little to analyze.

So my conclusion is this. DaddyTorgo is one wolf. I believe ntn is probably the other, but Alan is possible. I'd rank them in that order.

[hoopsguy]

Swamped at work this afternoon, so I haven't been able to do much more than take a peek - hasn't been too much to digest, though.

My thoughts on Path's list.
- Alan: certainly possible his "wolf PM" could have mentioned "eating villagers". But there are enough little touches in his play for me that suggest off-base villager in the first couple of days
- NTN: was really curious what Path might have to say here because I don't have much to work with on him either. I'm of the opinion that either he or DaddyT is a wolf; same position I was in last small game (we lost, neither was a wolf)
- DaddyT: general feel is that he wants to take more shots as a villager than as a wolf. Plays a little too nicely with others as a wolf, and I've seen some of that this game.
- Path: easiest of the group for me to put an agenda on with his play, but hardest for me to be impartial about since the agenda seemed to be taking me out.

[hoopsguy]

no edit rule - swap "eating villagers" to "eating villegars" for the note on Alan. I can't type the word backwards without thinking hard about it :)

Villager, derived from the word "Village" ... I'm hoping Lathum is sick enough of seeing this crap posted that we fix his little mental hang-up.

[DaddyTorgo]

I'm out having dinner...I will worry about what's been going on since 3pm when I got home.

[ntndeacon]

I don't mind which ever way to go as I see possibilities with each of the three being wolves. So since I do need to put a vote out there...
Vote path

[path12]

I'm out until after deadline, but I'm not one to plead anyway, especially when I'm good. We'll see what happens.

[hoopsguy]

Spooky quiet here.

[Lathum]

Spooky quiet here.

I just said to Molly " wow, no one has posted in 2 hours"

[Alan T]

I'm not sure what else to say right now. I don't really have anything to talkk about since I dont really learn much from the vote here right now. Ntn's vote didnt really affect things too much, DT can throw away his vote since he is not under pressure and Path pretty much doesnt have anything he can do.. so nothing really to call out the last wolf to save one of their own.

[st.cronin]

If I was here I'd be posting.

[Alan T]

If I was here I'd be posting.

probably reminding me how dumb I am at times :)

[st.cronin]

probably reminding me how dumb I am at times :)

By the way, I was a villegar in this game.

[Alan T]

By the way, I was a villegar in this game.

I noticed :(

Well I am 50/50 for the past two games. Next game is the bumper round.

[ntndeacon]

well we have deadline

[Lathum]

deadline

[DaddyTorgo]

I just assumed I was a goner and so I didn't come back into the thread.

relieved to see i'm not.

[Lathum]

The mob gathers again, screaming for blood, this time the remaining few of you turn towards Path and grab him. Someone pulls a piece of the banister and thrusts it through Paths heart. He takes one last breath and gasps " villager, it's villager" and goes limp. Path was an innocent victim.


(2) Daddytorgo - Alan (301), Path (330)
(4) Path12 - Hoopsguy (312), Peregrine (324), Kwhit (326) NTNdeacon (347)
(1) Alan - DaddyTorgo (320)

[hoopsguy]

Another banner day.

KWhit, we really suck if we miss on our 66% chance at a wolf tomorrow.

[Alan T]

Well I know who the wolves are now :)

[hoopsguy]

Path, going back to Day 1 votes - you were right :(

[Peregrine]

Well see you guys later, hope you can take the wolves down without me.

[DaddyTorgo]

Well I know who the wolves are now :)

you've known all along. Easy when you are one, hmm?

[path12]

Told ya. Good luck all.

[hoopsguy]

Well I know who the wolves are now :)

Yep, if we buy that your PM didn't read "You are a wolf and you would like to eat all the villegars" then it should be pretty straight-forward :)

[ntndeacon]

Well I know who the wolves are now :)

with only 3 uncleared. Obviously all three of us know who the wolves are.

[Lathum]

You all wake up and gather in the lobby, all but one of you. Peregrine is found in his bed. Throat ripped to shreads.

[hoopsguy]

Shocking.

Today should be an interesting day. I would reallly like to see the non-cleared candidates open up on why they are the non-wolf out of the group. I've got my thoughts on how this shakes out, but I'm going to hold off for the moment on casting a vote.

[Alan T]

Shocking.

Today should be an interesting day. I would reallly like to see the non-cleared candidates open up on why they are the non-wolf out of the group. I've got my thoughts on how this shakes out, but I'm going to hold off for the moment on casting a vote.

I thought alot about how i was going to play today. Obviously our winning or losing depends on my convincing Kwhit and Hoopsguy (The two people I pressed the hardest this game) that I'm actually on their team. My voting record has been atrocious this game, I was wanting to vote Kwhit day 1, Hoops day 2 (ended up voting Cronin who was an even worse choice as the Hunter). The only good reads that I have had this entire game was yesterday morning (Monday evening after lynch) where I finally realized DaddyTorgo was a wolf, and earlier in the game when I read Ntn's play and got a really weird vibe from it and even made a comment that perhaps I would just vote him instead. Unfortunatly at that time I had an even more odd vibe from Hoops' play and kept focused on it.

So my voting records have been horrible, and I really haven't done anything I can point to and say "See? Would a wolf do this?" I think its been so long since I've actually been a wolf that its hard for me at times to even think about what I would do as a wolf in a certain situation to use it as an example of why I'm not a wolf here.

The only thing i can really say is that I've been wrong alot this game, however every step of the way without exception I have given in detail why I was doing what I was doing. When I was wrong about Kwhit on day 1, I explained why I felt he was possibly bad based on his play and I expressed with reasons why I felt Kwhit was a very smart player and his play was what I would picture a smart wolf doing. I honestly believed Kwhit was the wolf through most of day 2 as well. I sat and waited and waited and waited for a fellow wolf to come save him. I purposely set up the vote to make it very easy for a wolf to save him with some plausible reason that wouldn't out themselves. Yet no one ever did. No one lifted a finger to save Kwhit, which in a small game with only 2 wolves was unconceivable for me. I felt at that point that Kwhit was not the wolf.

I still felt Hoops was the wolf at that point after the Cronin lynch, but that night I thought about it more (I often tend to play scenerios through my head during the night while laying in bed which is why I usually put night actions in during the morning in games that I have night actions). I thought to myself that I really was suprised that I was still alive. Yes the searching out the seer probably did make sense, but I also figured at some point they would take me out as well. Luckily for me I guess they never did find the seer, so never had a kill to spare to kill me off. I started thinking though, if Path was left alive, if I was left alive, why would Hoops as a wolf leave the two most vocal people against him alive? It would be very easy to kill me off and then have many different reasons why I was chosen.. yet we both were still alive. Thats one reason I wasn't so sure Path was the wolf and never voted for him yesterday as well. It felt like the room was purposely set to get Hoops lynched yesterday.

I thought about who would be the wolves in that scenerio.. I felt Kwhit still was good, and I looked back at the previous day's vote. How DaddyTorgo behaved inconsistantly, how he basically stirred the pot, but then when given the chance to be the hero, he completely disappeared without reason or rhyme. And I felt it important to jump out right away to vote him to make sure I held the tiebreaker on him if it came up again. Obviously the way things played out yesterday it never was an issue, but I had him figured out by that point. Ntn is a bit sneakier. He's laid low the entire game and hasn't really done anything bad or good that stands out. You can't nail down a fish so to speak, and he's stayed completely out of the spotlight. I wish I could point to something specifically that he did that would hilight why he's a wolf, but honestly speaking other than yesterday, the first two days he probably voted better for the village than I did.

I know how I plan on playing today vote wise, but I am at a disadvantage, I won't have anyone that comes to save me if I get in trouble. So I'm going to have to just hope Kwhit and Hoops believe me over the other two I suppose. I wish I had some magical thing to point to and say "See that proves I'm not a wolf", but I don't. I could suggest to lynch DT today and see that I was right yesterday, but that doesn't prove anything, and if Ntn and i were the wolves, it would just end the game for you as well. I think in the end this is going to end up just like Animal farm for you Hoops. you will be left with 3 people and 2 of them are bad, and you are going to have to make the decision on which to go for. You remember how i played that game when you had to choose 2 of the 3, I will play today differently. I'm leaving it in your and Kwhit's hands to decide.

[hoopsguy]

Alan, I remember Animal Farm pretty well. Which is why I want to see what ground people stake out early and then assess whether or not I believe the positions they are taking.

[hoopsguy]

KWhit, it is obvious that we are going to need to agree on a candidate and expect the third villager to follow us. So when you are around for discussion I think that is the direction we should head.

Up until now we have both extended a fair amount of credit to Alan - are we planning to continue in this direction today? If so, then which of the other two are the more likely wolf in your mind?

[DaddyTorgo]

Why I'm not a wolf:

All I can offer in defense of my offering little analysis is (like i posted in this thread and the hatfield one before the game started) is that my plate looked fairly full this week so I might not be as deeply analytical as I was say...in Peregrine's game where I was busting out percentages and driving things.

I wouldn't say that my voting record has been spotless, but the one thing it has been has been consistent.

I voted Kwhit early on Day 1 (turns out not a good choice) but I stuck with that vote all day long. Random D1 vote.

Day 2 I voted st. cronin, along with Alan btw. Again, neither of us were on a wolf as it turns out, but there was a lot of discussion going around. That was the day where it came down to hoops vs. cronin i believe, and I had a stronger feeling that cronin was a wolf based on his earlier comments, particularly before the game started.

Day 3 I voted Alan. His play has seemed "off" to me the whole game. He hasn't been his usual self I don't think, and couple that with his no-vote on D1 and his pushing things back onto me at the deadline the other night when I had repeatedly stated earlier that i felt that kwit and hoops were equally valid targets in my mind and i didn't see a reason to be the one to make the change (again, a wrong decision in hindsight given Peregrine's reveal).

I know I'm not the last wolf among the uncleared. I echo what hoops said about ntn...he's been his usual quiet self, hard to get a read on really.

My usual MO as a villager is to sling things around, see what generates interest among my fellow villagers, and go with it. In games where for whatever reason I am "off" I tend to sit back a little more, trying to build consensus.

I don't think I've been exceptionally "sling things around and not follow through." I think that's a malicious brush to paint me with in this game. On the contrary, the one thing I have slung out there is that Alan's play has seemed off to me all game. And I followed that up on D3 by voting for him, and keeping my vote there even as things went in an entirely different direction. Call it "me finding my WW-stones" or whatever, or finally getting up to speed with this game (one advantage of larger games, you can ease into it a little more versus a game like this where you have to be on your game from the first second).

I'm not going to get all frustrated and aggrivated again like I did last game when it came down to CR and ntn and me, because that didn't do any good except make CR feel bad or whatever. I just know that I'm not a wolf, and Alan's play has seemed "off" to me from the first day. He's not typically one to miss votes, particularly in a small game*. My votes, misguided as they might have been (along with everyone else's who isn't cleared I'd like to point out), have been consistent with what I felt the biggest threat was. You can't say the same about Alan, who no-voted on D1, voted St. Cronin with me on D2, but then seemingly inexplicably jumped over to vote for me 1st thing on D3, on the excuse that I didn't move my vote the night before, despite my not knowing if either of the two of them were bad with any certainty, and stating to kwit earlier that i felt it was more or less a tossup. Alan was around to late-switch right before the deadline though, conviently without leaving me any time to followup and switch as well, and then turn around and blame me for it.

*Alan, if there was a RL-reason for missing the votes I of course apologize and retract my use of this as evidence against you, regardless of whether you are a wolf or not, but as best I can remember you havn't indicated that there was.

VOTE ALAN T

getting it out there early

[hoopsguy]

I was hoping KWhit would be around this morning, because I've got more time for a back-and-forth discussion now than I will this afternoon. I thought today had the potential to be a really fun free-for-all day where everyone puts their cards out there and we debate like crazy for a couple of hours, but it certainly isn't headed in that direction yet.

[KWhit]

I'm here now.

I felt really strange about ST's actions that night that the vote was between me and Hoops and cronin. Knowing that all three of us are villagers makes his actions less suspicious.

[KWhit]

I'm here now.

I felt really strange about ST's actions that night that the vote was between me and Hoops and cronin. Knowing that all three of us are villagers makes his actions less suspicious.

ST from above should be DT - DaddyTorgo.

[DaddyTorgo]

i'm around, although i should get lunch, i should be around this afternoon too

[KWhit]

Hey ntn. What's going on?

[KWhit]

Ntn, care to state your case? Cause you're smelling pretty wolfish to me right now.

[Alan T]

I was hoping KWhit would be around this morning, because I've got more time for a back-and-forth discussion now than I will this afternoon. I thought today had the potential to be a really fun free-for-all day where everyone puts their cards out there and we debate like crazy for a couple of hours, but it certainly isn't headed in that direction yet.


Not really sure what else I can say that I haven't already said. I could go through and respond to DT's accusations against me about things like "missing" the day 1 vote, when in actuality I was an active participant in those discussions and made my choice pretty publically known. I could refute his comments about me playing "weird" this game , even though I don't generally have a model that I use when I try to play every game so I make sure to always play the same. I guess I was more worried about trying to figure out who was good or bad the first few days than I was about what others would perceive of me.

I don't really know what type of back and forth discussion you are looking for at least involving me Hoops. I feel I have pretty much laid out my feelings every step along the way about why I felt what I did and what made me draw those conclusions, even when accusing you I felt I pointed specifically at what made me feel the way I did the entire way. I guess if you have questions you would like to ask me or things you aren't sure of why I felt the way I did, or why I did what i did, I would be happy to answer them.

[hoopsguy]

And it looks like the crew is all here now.

KWhit - why does the fact that all three Day 2 candidates were villagers make you feel better about DaddyTorgo? A villager has no way of knowing the roles of the three people there, so do you think that he would be more/less likely to take a shot as a villager or wolf?

[ntndeacon]

Well, I am not a wolf either.
First the voting doesn't say much one way or the other. I voted for the cleared hoops on day one and the cleared KWhit on day two, and path who was also a villager on day three.

So let's look at the other posts I have done. On the night I was here before the deadline I was ready to change my vote to whereever it was needed. And I did not give much analysis of event, but I hardly ever do.
In terms of what y'all believe, I think it should be evident to you cleared few that Alan and I are on different teams. Basically this is seen from them misunderstanding over whether I would follow him onto Kwhit on night 2. So having concluded that we are on different teams, then that clarifies the action for today at least. In terms of out talking, Alan is better at that than I am it is one of the reasons I tend to be short worded. But I think he would agree that DT is a wolf.

[ntndeacon]

Vote DT

[hoopsguy]

2nd question, KWhit - do you see any of the following combinations that you don't think could be playing together this game?

Alan/DT
Alan/NTN
DT/NTN

If so, lets discuss who and why.

[ntndeacon]

I can discuss this more later but I have a test to proctor first. So I will be back about 3 central

[hoopsguy]

Well, I am not a wolf either.
First the voting doesn't say much one way or the other. I voted for the cleared hoops on day one and the cleared KWhit on day two, and path who was also a villager on day three.

So let's look at the other posts I have done. On the night I was here before the deadline I was ready to change my vote to whereever it was needed. And I did not give much analysis of event, but I hardly ever do.
In terms of what y'all believe, I think it should be evident to you cleared few that Alan and I are on different teams. Basically this is seen from them misunderstanding over whether I would follow him onto Kwhit on night 2. So having concluded that we are on different teams, then that clarifies the action for today at least. In terms of out talking, Alan is better at that than I am it is one of the reasons I tend to be short worded. But I think he would agree that DT is a wolf.

In terms you and Alan being on different teams, I think you could argue the same thing about Alan and DT being on different teams based on their interactions with each other at the end of Day 2. Your reference to KWhit was at the end of Day 1.

The only way both of those make sense is if you and DT are on the same team, and I'm sure that is not the point you are trying to make - right?

[hoopsguy]

Well, I am not a wolf either.

...

I think it should be evident to you cleared few that Alan and I are on different teams.
...

So having concluded that we are on different teams, then that clarifies the action for today at least. In terms of out talking, Alan is better at that than I am it is one of the reasons I tend to be short worded. But I think he would agree that DT is a wolf.

If you and Alan are on different teams, then it would seem strange for you guys to agree on your choice today.

[DaddyTorgo]

dammit NTN. I'm not a wolf. But I guess I ought to expect this based on how you screwed me last game too hmm? Might as well bend over and take it again from you, although the circumstances are different...us on different sides this time.

[DaddyTorgo]

if i was a wolf i'd assume one of them was trying to hide on me. but since i'm not i guess the conclusion is that they're both wolves and they're playing 2nd level and both trying to hide on me to push me on you guys. if they both agree on a choice of targets doesn't that strike you guys as weird?

[KWhit]

And it looks like the crew is all here now.

KWhit - why does the fact that all three Day 2 candidates were villagers make you feel better about DaddyTorgo? A villager has no way of knowing the roles of the three people there, so do you think that he would be more/less likely to take a shot as a villager or wolf?

Hmmm.... It made sense to me earlier, but now that I'm thinking about it, I'm not so sure. Let's look at the possibilities:

DT had two choices when the vote was getting late:

1-Throw a vote out there on one of us and effectively lead the charge (or at least be one of the key decising votes).
2-Hold back and see what Alan or I do first.

He chose #2.

My original thinking (before Peregrine's reveal) was that this was suspicious because he didn't want to be seen leading the charge against someone who would come up as a villager.

Post reveal when we found out all three of us were villagers it didn't stick out as much to me and I started to believe that it was just indecisiveness. But the same theory holds, I suppose, that if DT was a wolf and knew that all 3 were villagers, why not hold back and just let the rest of us decide to kill one of our own.

But I feel that he brought too much attention to himself with the way he went about it. Saying "hey guys! We have a block now. What do you want to do?" It would seem to be a smarter wolf play to just make a semi-decent case against one of the three of us and make a vote.

Having said all that, I didn't like the way he just totally disappered at the end there. So maybe me statements about "feeling better" about him now are overstated. I feel a tiny tiny tiny bit better about him, but he and ntn still worry me.

[Alan T]

If you and Alan are on different teams, then it would seem strange for you guys to agree on your choice today.


I don't plan on agreeing with ntn on a vote choice, I don't plan on doing it with DT either. I also have no desire to interact with them in conversation. I know their allegiance and they know mine. I don't understand the reason why he needs to appeal to me at all. If he is good and I am bad, why do I need to work with him at all? Thats the reason I chose not to even respond to DT's accusations at me earlier either. There is nothing to convince him of, he knows what side I am on, just as I know what side he is on.

I'll try to work with you and Kwhit in answering any questions you have, but the decision is left up to you two to win or lose unfortunatly.

[hoopsguy]

KWhit, does the last post indicate that Alan is still the most trusted out of the three for you?

[KWhit]

I don't plan on agreeing with ntn on a vote choice, I don't plan on doing it with DT either. I also have no desire to interact with them in conversation. I know their allegiance and they know mine. I don't understand the reason why he needs to appeal to me at all. If he is good and I am bad, why do I need to work with him at all? Thats the reason I chose not to even respond to DT's accusations at me earlier either. There is nothing to convince him of, he knows what side I am on, just as I know what side he is on.

I'll try to work with you and Kwhit in answering any questions you have, but the decision is left up to you two to win or lose unfortunatly.

Yeah. That's the interesting thing about this game right now. Alan, DT, and ntn know all the roles of all the players at this point. Hoops and I are the only players still in the dark.

Very interesting.

[hoopsguy]

I'll try to work with you and Kwhit in answering any questions you have, but the decision is left up to you two to win or lose unfortunatly.

Yep, I get that. And I would expect that we'll have the remaining villager follow us on our vote in order to ensure we are not hijacked on voting by a wolf.

[KWhit]

KWhit, does the last post indicate that Alan is still the most trusted out of the three for you?

I suppose so. But barely.

I don't like the fact that he missed the vote on day 1, but it seems like he would know that would be viewed as suspicious so a wolf likely wouldn't have done it.

[Alan T]

Yep, I get that. And I would expect that we'll have the remaining villager follow us on our vote in order to ensure we are not hijacked on voting by a wolf.


which is exactly the reason why I haven't voted yet.

[hoopsguy]

I suppose so. But barely.

I don't like the fact that he missed the vote on day 1, but it seems like he would know that would be viewed as suspicious so a wolf likely wouldn't have done it.

Agreed. There was no real value-add on failing to cast a Day 1 vote. Doing so early, with hopes that it would help later in the game, would be a couple levels deeper thinking than I think any of us tend to do in Werewolf, no matter how smart we like to act about it sometimes. It is enough to move him to the "least likely to vote" list for today and probably for the duration. The kicker there is that I'm not 100% sold on DT/NTN as our dynamic duo. Which of these people would have ordered the Molly Night 1 kill and why?

[KWhit]

Agreed. There was no real value-add on failing to cast a Day 1 vote. Doing so early, with hopes that it would help later in the game, would be a couple levels deeper thinking than I think any of us tend to do in Werewolf, no matter how smart we like to act about it sometimes. It is enough to move him to the "least likely to vote" list for today and probably for the duration. The kicker there is that I'm not 100% sold on DT/NTN as our dynamic duo. Which of these people would have ordered the Molly Night 1 kill and why?

As to why, my best guess is it had to do with the whole villegar mess. At the time, her reaction to vote AlanT suggested that MM did not have a PM that said villegar in it (not true, but we didn't know that at the time). Therefore, MM could only be the seer, hunter, or sorcerer, since they knew she wasn't a wolf. That had a great chance to kill the seer so they took it.

[KWhit]

Something else I checked on:

NTN has not said a word all game (one way or the other) about DT until today.

DT has not said a word all game (one way or the other) about NTN until today.

And today they are voting for each other.

I don't know if it means anything or not, but it's possible that they have been trying to avoid posting about each other. Not a big deal, but perhaps an interesting sign that they could be in league together.

It just seems strange that it can be this late in the game and they haven't made a single post that mentions the other.

[Alan T]

Something else I checked on:

NTN has not said a word all game (one way or the other) about DT until today.

DT has not said a word all game (one way or the other) about NTN until today.

And today they are voting for each other.

I don't know if it means anything or not, but it's possible that they have been trying to avoid posting about each other. Not a big deal, but perhaps an interesting sign that they could be in league together.

It just seems strange that it can be this late in the game and they haven't made a single post that mentions the other.

Just so you don't make the right assumption for the wrong reason... :)

DT voted for me earlier, not ntn. I will present however (moreso for Hoops since he played that game), in that game when I was a wolf, I pushed the vote early on, trying to start up momentum in that game, however in order to try to "trick" hoops I voted for my wolf teammate, which then had him vote the other (innocent) villager and the wolves won the game.

Earlier I mentioned that I was going to play today different, that was more for Hoops' benefit since he remembered the other scenerio. Like mentioned earlier, I don't care which of the two you all vote for, there is no reason for me to push the vote either way. Voting for either of them is perfectly fine with me and I will join your vote on whichever you choose to lock it in and help you out. (No matter which you choose). This is what I meant, Ntn is playing today like I played in Animal farm.

[KWhit]

Just so you don't make the right assumption for the wrong reason... :)

DT voted for me earlier, not ntn.

Ah yes. I stand corrected.

[hoopsguy]

Let's give this a shot - I think this is consistent with where KWhit is headed. I also consider Alan/DT as the least likely of three remaining potential wolf teams.

VOTE NTNDEACON

[KWhit]

I'd like to hear more from ntndeacon, but as of right now he's my top candidate also.

VOTE NTNDEACON

[Alan T]

As I promised

Vote Ntndeacon

[DaddyTorgo]

i put my vote on alan early guys in case of any shenanigans such as he brought about yesterday, but voting for ntn seems solid, as he's basically come out blasting at me as a wolf. so if you two don't want to vote alan then there's little reason for me to keep my vote there versus moving it to ntn in order to prevent ntn+alan locking it up with last-second switching.

[Alan T]

i put my vote on alan early guys in case of any shenanigans such as he brought about yesterday, but voting for ntn seems solid, as he's basically come out blasting at me as a wolf. so if you two don't want to vote alan then there's little reason for me to keep my vote there versus moving it to ntn in order to prevent ntn+alan locking it up with last-second switching.

Because if Ntn and I were wolves together, an outstanding plan would be to last minute move the vote off of him onto me where your vote currently is right? :)


I know, I said I wasn't going to interact with DT today, but just had to shoot bb gun holes through this statement :)

[DaddyTorgo]

Because if Ntn and I were wolves together, an outstanding plan would be to last minute move the vote off of him onto me where your vote currently is right? :)


I know, I said I wasn't going to interact with DT today, but just had to shoot bb gun holes through this statement :)


no. it'd be for you to move your vote with him so that the two of you could force a tiebreaker. although then i guess the tiebreaker would be longest held vote so it'd go back to him.

so okay...obviously there can't be any shenanigans there. so i didn't think that one entirely through before posting...so what?

[DaddyTorgo]

in that case i might as well keep my vote on alan, since ntn and him are the last two wolves. me changing my vote isn't going to give anyone anymore insight into things.

and i fully expect to be out-argued tomorrow by alan, because that's what he does.

[hoopsguy]

How do we want this one to play out in terms of nightfall for today and tomorrow?

Today - we lynch a wolf or game is over
Night (instant?) - I would expect the wolf can send their order now
Tomorrow (whenever we run it) - make a call, see how it works out

[KWhit]

How do we want this one to play out in terms of nightfall for today and tomorrow?

Today - we lynch a wolf or game is over
Night (instant?) - I would expect the wolf can send their order now
Tomorrow (whenever we run it) - make a call, see how it works out

I'm comfortable with that.

[Lathum]

I will be out until about 10:00 PM EST

[Alan T]

DT, I'm going to help you out here because I like you and enjoy playing games here.

You're having a problem anticipating all possible moves from a villager point of view. Right now you know that I am good, but you are trying to play it off to hoops and kwhit that I am bad. You need to move your vote to Ntndeacon as well to do so.

Right now your vote being on me is supposed to indicate that you don't care which of us dies because you are supposedly good. But what it is missing is that if you were really good as you are suggesting, then ntn and I would be teamed up. Thus leaving your vote where it is right now (on me) leaves the door open for me if I was a supposed wolf to move my vote to you and lynch you and end the game.

You know thats not going to happen, I know thats not going to happen, but right now with ntn apparently a goner, your only chance is going to be to try to convince hoops and kwhit that you are good. To do so, means you need to fully think of it as a villager, which would mean right now you are only worried about one thing, and one thing only , trying to stay alive for the end of the day. Putting your vote to ntn achieves that goal and would require multiple people to move their votes to endanger you once again. So as someone trying to pretend to be a villager, you probably want to move your vote to ntn to at least demonstrate the fear you have in today ending the game.

[DaddyTorgo]

DT, I'm going to help you out here because I like you and enjoy playing games here.

You're having a problem anticipating all possible moves from a villager point of view. Right now you know that I am good, but you are trying to play it off to hoops and kwhit that I am bad. You need to move your vote to Ntndeacon as well to do so.

Right now your vote being on me is supposed to indicate that you don't care which of us dies because you are supposedly good. But what it is missing is that if you were really good as you are suggesting, then ntn and I would be teamed up. Thus leaving your vote where it is right now (on me) leaves the door open for me if I was a supposed wolf to move my vote to you and lynch you and end the game.

You know thats not going to happen, I know thats not going to happen, but right now with ntn apparently a goner, your only chance is going to be to try to convince hoops and kwhit that you are good. To do so, means you need to fully think of it as a villager, which would mean right now you are only worried about one thing, and one thing only , trying to stay alive for the end of the day. Putting your vote to ntn achieves that goal and would require multiple people to move their votes to endanger you once again. So as someone trying to pretend to be a villager, you probably want to move your vote to ntn to at least demonstrate the fear you have in today ending the game.

But what you are missing Alan is twofold:

1)that if that were to happen I would be around before lynch in order to move my vote from you to NTN to ensure that he got lynched.
2) That if you moved your vote in such a way, the tiebreaker would still come out with NTN being lynched as oldest held vote.

[DaddyTorgo]

oh...and dola

you have things backwards. i know you howl at the blue corn moon you wolfy man.

[Alan T]

But what you are missing Alan is twofold:

1)that if that were to happen I would be around before lynch in order to move my vote from you to NTN to ensure that he got lynched.
2) That if you moved your vote in such a way, the tiebreaker would still come out with NTN being lynched as oldest held vote.


Ntn's vote on you came before Hoops's vote for ntn. So tiebreaker right now would be you getting lynched in that scenerio.

[DaddyTorgo]

Ntn's vote on you came before Hoops's vote for ntn. So tiebreaker right now would be you getting lynched in that scenerio.

oh. i hadn't looked back to see that. regardless...i will be around at deadline to ensure that nothing wolfy goes down, so I'd be able to counteract any vote against me by you two.

[ntndeacon]

If you and Alan are on different teams, then it would seem strange for you guys to agree on your choice today.

You really see that as strange? I rather expected it. How many times have we seen wolves attacking other wolves even in as late a stage as this.

[Alan T]

Yesterday:

Alan was around to late-switch right before the deadline though, conviently without leaving me any time to followup and switch as well, and then turn around and blame me for it.


Today:

oh. i hadn't looked back to see that. regardless...i will be around at deadline to ensure that nothing wolfy goes down, so I'd be able to counteract any vote against me by you two.

[DaddyTorgo]

Yesterday:




Today:


your point mon frer? (spelling)

[Alan T]

your point mon frer? (spelling)


You state that I was so devious to last second switch yesterday in a way that I left you absolutely no time to do anything to stop it or combat me. Yet today you state that you aren't worried that I (being the evil wolf that I am) will pull a last second switch to you and end up lynching you (the last uncleared villager) to win the game for us evil wolfs because you will be able to stop me today when you wern't able to yesterday in a similar scenerio.

[DaddyTorgo]

You state that I was so devious to last second switch yesterday in a way that I left you absolutely no time to do anything to stop it or combat me. Yet today you state that you aren't worried that I (being the evil wolf that I am) will pull a last second switch to you and end up lynching you (the last uncleared villager) to win the game for us evil wolfs because you will be able to stop me today when you wern't able to yesterday in a similar scenerio.


well yesterday i wasn't on the block, and since i know i'm good.

and FYI...it wouldn't even have to be last-second, because the numbers would be there. i could do it anytime between now and deadline :p

(and sorry, i'm getting a lil bitchy...RL-drama)

[st.cronin]

If I were around I'd still be posting.

[hoopsguy]

Can we please bring Cronin back?

[st.cronin]

Can we please bring Cronin back?

I like this idea.

[Alan T]

me too!

[DaddyTorgo]

I don't know what's up with the silence. But I'd guess it doesn't bode well for me. And that bodes bad for us travelers hoops+kwit.

[KWhit]

Why does that bode bad for you?

[DaddyTorgo]

oh. Bodes bad for ntn I mean. LOL

pay attention DT! I was still thinking back to earlier today and my ahem...discussions with alan.

[KWhit]

oh. Bodes bad for ntn I mean. LOL

pay attention DT! I was still thinking back to earlier today and my ahem...discussions with alan.

Well that makes sense, wolf.

[DaddyTorgo]

Well that makes sense, wolf.

I am no such wolf

[ntndeacon]

sorry I haven't been posting more. I have been involved with the making, proctoring and grading of exams. I am gonig to be very happy when next Wednesday is over.

[Lathum]

deadline

[Lathum]

Well this night most of you are agreed about NTN being the lynching victim. As you surround him, you realize he's not going to go easily, because he's a werewolf! After a struggle though, you manage to subdue him and finish him off with a silver letter opener. Whew, that's one wolf down.

1 AlanT- Daddytorgo 373
1 Daddytorgo- NTNDeacon 383
3 NTNDeacon- hoopsguy 402, Kwhit 403, alanT 404

[hoopsguy]

Will be interesting to see who is picked tonight.

[Alan T]

Once again, if I was the last wolf, I could have won the game tonight and didn't.

[Lathum]

You all wake for breakfast th next day, all 3 of you that is. It seems hoopsguy will not be joining you. He has been ripped to shreads in his bed.

[KWhit]

So it's up to me.

[DaddyTorgo]

VOTE ALAN T

he's the last wolf. his odd play all game pretty much speaks for itself.

i'm not going to go back and pull out 1000 posts and turn this into a huge thing.

you have to decide for yourself kwhit.

[DaddyTorgo]

the last time i put a ton of energy into a last-day scenario it didn't work out and it frustrated me. and i'm not going that route again.

the case's against both of us have been made. i don't see any need to rehash what I've said about Alan yesterday, and even earlier in the game when his play raised my eyesbrows. and it's 100% clear in my mind now that he is the last wolf, as you have been cleared and there's no conversion mechanism in play here, and I know that I'm a villager, despite what he'll say and the 80,000 word posts he will use to try to argue against him being a wolf.

clearly my vote isn't moving off Alan, and his won't be moving off of me. I ask only that you don't let either of us sway your true convictions.

[KWhit]

DT, it seems like you made a blunder by saying that our votes for ntndeacon were bad news for you. That suggests that you and ntn are team mates, which I suspected anyway.

Would you please try to explain the following posts:

I don't know what's up with the silence. But I'd guess it doesn't bode well for me. And that bodes bad for us travelers hoops+kwit.


oh. Bodes bad for ntn I mean. LOL

pay attention DT! I was still thinking back to earlier today and my ahem...discussions with alan.

[DaddyTorgo]

DT, it seems like you made a blunder by saying that our votes for ntndeacon were bad news for you. That suggests that you and ntn are team mates, which I suspected anyway.

Would you please try to explain the following posts:


certainly. i was thinking back to earlier and my "conversations" with alan and i had assumed due to the way that the prior day ended and all that the votes would be on me. i didn't realize at that point that all the votes were on NTN...I have been quite distracted by work and I've only been sleeping like...4 hours a night lately.

It wasn't a blunder of ntn+me being on the same team, it was a blunder of me thinking that the votes were on me (IIRC I hadn't checked the vote-totals when i made that post).

[DaddyTorgo]

same team with NTN? After the way he bailed on me at the end of the last small-game and cost us the win against CR? Yeah right. If Lathum had drawn our straws together I would have asked for a replacement. I'm more than a lil pissed at him right now. He's dead to me.

[KWhit]

certainly. i was thinking back to earlier and my "conversations" with alan and i had assumed due to the way that the prior day ended and all that the votes would be on me. i didn't realize at that point that all the votes were on NTN...I have been quite distracted by work and I've only been sleeping like...4 hours a night lately.

It wasn't a blunder of ntn+me being on the same team, it was a blunder of me thinking that the votes were on me (IIRC I hadn't checked the vote-totals when i made that post).


My bullshit detector is going off.

Here are a couple of posts from you earlier in the day yesterday. You clearly knew where the votes were.

i put my vote on alan early guys in case of any shenanigans such as he brought about yesterday, but voting for ntn seems solid, as he's basically come out blasting at me as a wolf. so if you two don't want to vote alan then there's little reason for me to keep my vote there versus moving it to ntn in order to prevent ntn+alan locking it up with last-second switching.


But what you are missing Alan is twofold:

1)that if that were to happen I would be around before lynch in order to move my vote from you to NTN to ensure that he got lynched.
2) That if you moved your vote in such a way, the tiebreaker would still come out with NTN being lynched as oldest held vote.


Care to explain further?

[DaddyTorgo]

My bullshit detector is going off.

Here are a couple of posts from you earlier in the day yesterday. You clearly knew where the votes were.







Care to explain further?

like i said...i was tired. if you want to lynch me based on that and lose, go ahead. it'll just make me be sure that every game i play as a villager from now on i'll try to get killed early so i don't end up in this aggrivating endgame scenarios.

so i meant to say "bad for ntn" and said "bad for me" instead cuz i got 4 hours of sleep (also like i said in my explanation) because I was exhausted and busy at work and frustrated with other crap. big deal. besides...ntn dying would have nothing to do with being bad for me either way. and particuarly because i'm not on his team.

maybe i'd forgotten over the course of the day where the votes were at at that point. you have no idea how long and just generally "blah" my day was yesterday. maybe i assumed alan would have been working to move you two off of his wolf-buddy onto me.

i honestly don't know why i said that. but it's hardly "bullshit detector" worthy, especially given alan's strange play all game.

[KWhit]

i honestly don't know why i said that. but it's hardly "bullshit detector" worthy, especially given alan's strange play all game.

If Alan was the other wolf, he could have ended the game last night with a 10:30 vote switch. He did not.

This is a no brainer to me.

Vote DaddyTorgo

[DaddyTorgo]

so what you're saying then is i should have ate alan last night because he was irritating me and it would have been amusing at least to me?

UNVOTE ALAN T

VOTE DADDYTORGO

VOTE NIGHTFALL

gg all

[KWhit]

Heh.

Nightfall.

[Alan T]

Vote Daddytorgo

vote nightfall

Sure I'll go along with that.

[Lathum]

Well the voting today was pretty quiet, it seems that most of you had someone in mind.

Daddytorgo 3

You all soberly decide to string DT up, this time being ready for any shenanigans. When your victim starts transforming into a werewolf you are ready, hitting him over the head and finishing the job. You've killed the second werewolf!

Game Over - Villagers Win!

[KWhit]

Yes!

Nice game, guys.

[Alan T]

Just want to take a second to apologize to everyone for the whole villegar thing. I never intended to form a CoT or develop trust from it. I just was having fun with Lathum. After realizing that it was going to become bigger than I intended, I tried to distance myself from it, I apologized in private to Lathum and tried to not bring it up again the rest of the game (even if my life depended on it.) I think though my saying it made things tougher on ntn and DT and MM, and apologize to them too. I think alot of kwhit and Hoops and doubt it had any impact on their play at the end, but I'm sure at least at some point it impacted play in an unfair way.

I think I played fairly well the last few days. I started suspecting ntn, I figured DT out and I think I made some pretty decent arguements the last two days. I still had fun though, and hope everyone else did too.

[st.cronin]

I wonder if there is any value in a gm NOT sending out pms except to people with special roles? So then after sending those out, he posts in game "pms sent - if you did not get one, you are a villegar, however you spell that."

[hoopsguy]

Agreed on the villegar stuff - it is a shame it came up because it was a bit of a Pandora's Box over the next couple of days. I think early on it benefitted the wolves because it created (I think, anyway) a lot of the Day 1/2 furor around KWhit and I. This gave the wolves some space to hide.

I know they were hunting the seer, but it might have been best to take out Alan earlier in the game and remove potential for him to be trusted later in the game. Or at least mount a very subversive FUD campaign against him.

I hate being the last villager killed in games. I think that happens to me almost as often as I'm converted. Right on the brink of a winning game and BOOM! - no win for you.

The small games really do play differently for me than the big games. For better or worse, I think I get a certain amount of latitude early in big games but in the small games I seem to experience the opposite. Probably has a lot to do with playing styles.

Alan, your point at the end of yesterday on the vote switching was just game/set/match in terms of an argument with DT on roles. Very rare to see that happen in a werewolf game and I wanted to acknowledge that. Although I'm sure he didn't appreciate your "DT, you aren't exercising optimum strategy" posts as they came off as a little condescending (again, my read, YMMV), even if you truly meant them in an instructive buddy kind of way.

[hoopsguy]

And another note - there is no player in all of werewolf that I am more consistently wrong about than Cronin. Sorry for my role in Day 2 - it was a total no-win situation for you, given your role.

[st.cronin]

And another note - there is no player in all of werewolf that I am more consistently wrong about than Cronin.

You and Alan both. I very rarely mind the heat, or an early exit. It gives me a chance to follow the game with a little distance, which I enjoy.

I couldn't figure out what I was supposed to do with my role in this game. I couldn't reveal before the seer, because it was obviously better for me to get lynched than the seer.

[Alan T]

Agreed on the villegar stuff - it is a shame it came up because it was a bit of a Pandora's Box over the next couple of days. I think early on it benefitted the wolves because it created (I think, anyway) a lot of the Day 1/2 furor around KWhit and I. This gave the wolves some space to hide.

I know they were hunting the seer, but it might have been best to take out Alan earlier in the game and remove potential for him to be trusted later in the game. Or at least mount a very subversive FUD campaign against him.

I hate being the last villager killed in games. I think that happens to me almost as often as I'm converted. Right on the brink of a winning game and BOOM! - no win for you.

The small games really do play differently for me than the big games. For better or worse, I think I get a certain amount of latitude early in big games but in the small games I seem to experience the opposite. Probably has a lot to do with playing styles.

Alan, your point at the end of yesterday on the vote switching was just game/set/match in terms of an argument with DT on roles. Very rare to see that happen in a werewolf game and I wanted to acknowledge that. Although I'm sure he didn't appreciate your "DT, you aren't exercising optimum strategy" posts as they came off as a little condescending (again, my read, YMMV), even if you truly meant them in an instructive buddy kind of way.

Wasn't meant as condescending at all, hope it wasn't taken that way. It was mostly meant in a gamey way to put the proverbial nail in the coffin so to speak. I enjoy playing with DT as i do with most everyone, and have no desire to make him hate me :)

[hoopsguy]

Alan, FWIW I hate when we are both villagers :)

[DaddyTorgo]

Wasn't meant as condescending at all, hope it wasn't taken that way. It was mostly meant in a gamey way to put the proverbial nail in the coffin so to speak. I enjoy playing with DT as i do with most everyone, and have no desire to make him hate me :)

eh...it did piss me off a little...seemed to come off a bit that way. honestly though, if I wasn't so tired and having so much RL-drama going on, it wouldn't have bothered me 1/100th as much. Fact, now that the game's over, I'm pretty much over it. Or I will be after I meet my buddy for beers in an hour.

[path12]

I'd just like to say that I was on both DT and ntn early. Thank you. ;)

[hoopsguy]

I'd just like to say that I was on both DT and ntn early. Thank you. ;)

I seem to remember the "Kill the Villager Hoops" middle part a little more vividly :eek:

[SnDvls]

I'd just like to say that I was on both DT and ntn early. Thank you. ;)

I need to do more "random" say one votes to pick my wolves :D

BTW I do think the "villegar" think did screw the wolves in this game as it caused me to reread my PM and see it was almost verbatim of what Alan got and kept me from even thinking of him as a suspect. People can say it didn't effect them, but I do believe it did/does in the small games especially.

Well run game Lathum thanks for GMing it.

[path12]

I seem to remember the "Kill the Villager Hoops" middle part a little more vividly :eek:


Well, there was that too. But in the immortal words of Meat Loaf, two outta three ain't bad.

[Peregrine]

Good game, everyone! Glad the good guys pulled it out!

[Barkeep49]

I think the solution, ftr, is to give the wolves a copy of the pms sent out for the roles, or at least for the villagers, so if some sort of COT is tried the wolves can be all over it.

[KWhit]

I think the solution, ftr, is to give the wolves a copy of the pms sent out for the roles, or at least for the villagers, so if some sort of COT is tried the wolves can be all over it.

BUt if that was done, to make sure the villagers know about it beforehand. A wrong COT due to PMs is just as bad as a right COT due to PMs.

[Barkeep49]

BUt if that was done, to make sure the villagers know about it beforehand. A wrong COT due to PMs is just as bad as a right COT due to PMs.
Yes, sorry that was assumed on my part. I plan on putting that in the rules.

[ntndeacon]

The funny thing is we had talked about going in a totally different idea. Peregrine was talked about both nights. I did not understand the voting for DT the night after SnDvls was killed instead of path. I thought path getting killed would even reek harder of someone framing hoops, than killing someone different.