Werewolf Small game XII- The game thread. GAME OVER VILLAGERS WIN!

[Lathum]

You should have listened to your friends’ advice “Never travel to Europe on the cheap” they said. Because, for one thing, you ended up in Eastern Europe and for another you ended up in one of the worst (and in this case cursed) hotels.

So here you are in Romania of all places stuck in a run down hotel in some tiny village in the Carpathian Mountains. You have no idea where the next village is but it doesn’t matter anyway because all of the thunderstorms have flooded out the only bridge leading to the village, in addition to cutting the power. You are huddled in the hotel lobby with all of your fellow travelers trying to keep the candles lit which turns out to be difficult with all the drafts.

Finally the hotel manager Lathum enters and addresses you “I’m afraid I have some bad news. It looks like we’re going to be stuck here for the entire week without any power. The roads are washed out and there’s no way to leave.” You all groan as you calculate what the delay will do to your travel itineraries. “It gets worse” continues Lathum. “You see, this hotel is…. well, it’s cursed”

“You see, centuries ago a powerful werewolf was killed in this very building by a brave hunter. With his dying words he placed a curse on the building and ever since then, every ten years on the anniversary of his death, a pair werewolves come down from their den in the mountains, assume human form, and eat everybody in the hotel.”

“I don’t know why I accepted your reservations since I knew this would happen, I guess I’m getting old and forgetful. The good news is if you are killed I won’t charge you for the room.”

“That should be all the bad news… Oh, nope, wait there’s more. The wolves are already here you see. Even now two of you sitting in this room are wolves, which two I don’t know. They assume a very convincing human form during the day and if you see them at night, well, then you don’t see anything else ever again.”

“Now listen carefully, there are many more people here than there were ten years ago so I don’t think the wolves will kill you all at once, likely they’ll take one per night until they are equal in number then they’ll finish you off. Your best bet is probably to turn on each other and kill one of yourselves every day hoping to get a wolf. That seems like the sensible thing to do.”

“I take my leave of you now. Best of luck with the wolves and all, come back and see us next year if you’re alive.”

[Lathum]

Here are the full rules for people to peruse. There are a lot of variants with special roles and additional rules but this is the basic version for us to try.


RULES

Werewolf is a game of accusation, deduction, lying, reverse psychology and bandwagoning. Moreover, it's a lot of fun.

The rules are pretty simple: The players represent a village and each member of the village has a role which is kept secret. Most players are ordinary villagers but two or more are werewolves and one is a seer, there are some other roles which are explained later. The goal of the villagers is to eliminate all of the werewolves. The goal of the werewolves is to achieve 1:1 parity with the villagers at which time they can openly rise up and overwhelm the villagers thus winning the game.

Gameplay
The game consists of two different phases: Night and Day. The game begins with a Night phase.

Night
In a night phase the moderator will ask the werewolves to choose a villager to “eat” and also ask the seer to choose one player to “view”. The werewolves should decide amongst themselves using the board's PM(private message) function who their victim will be and inform the moderator of their choice. The seer should decide who his target will be and inform the moderator of his choice.

The werewolves' victim is dead and is removed from the game, but the rest of the village won't find out until daytime who the victim is and what their secret role was.

The seer's target has his role (villager or werewolf) revealed to the seer only.

Day
During the daytime the villagers all wake up and find that one of their own has been killed by the werewolves. At this point at least one player is a werewolf and so someone is gonna get lynched.

During this phase all players, including werewolves who have assumed villager form, must discuss their suspicions. Eventually it will reach a point where villagers start to cast votes for who they feel is a werewolf and must be lynched. Votes are cast by placing bold text in a post like this VOTE PLAYER A. At the end of the day (which is defined as 8:00 pm board time) the player who received the most votes is lynched and is removed from the game. That player’s role will be revealed to the village.

When the lynching is done all the villagers go back to their homes to sleep and the next night begins.

Winning
In case it's not clear: The villagers win if they kill all of the werewolves. The werewolves win if they kill enough villagers so that their numbers are equal. At this point the werewolves can openly rise up and slaughter the rest of the villagers.

Special Roles

Roles will be assigned randomly; the Moderator will inform you of your role via PM when we start the game. The following is a description of the roles in the game.

Seer – There is one Seer in the game and he is on the villagers team. Each night the Seer may choose one other player to “view” by sending a PM to the moderator with that player’s name. The moderator will tell the Seer whether his chosen target is a werewolf or a human.

Werewolf – There are two werewolves in the game. The werewolves know who each other are and may send PM’s between themselves to discuss strategy. At night the wolves PM the moderator the name of the player they’d like to eat. In the morning that player’s death will be announced along with his special role

Hunter – There is one Hunter in the game and he is on the villagers team. If at the end of the game the Hunter is alone with one wolf then he will kill that wolf and what would normally have been a wolf win will be a village win.

Sorcerer – There is one sorcerer in the game and he is on the wolves team. The Sorcerer is an evil human and wants the wolves to win. If the wolves do win then the Sorcerer wins also, but if the villagers win then the Sorcerer loses. However, the Sorcerer does not know who the wolves are and the wolves do not know the Sorcerer. Crucially, the Sorcerer will appear as a simple human if viewed by the Seer

Villagers – There are four to six regular villagers in the game. The villagers have no special abilities other than their own deductive ability. They will have to vote wisely to win the game.

Miscellaneous
1) Only the wolves may PM’s between themselves. All other players may not send PM’s (unless to the Moderator as called for by your role or to ask a question)

2) If there is a tie in the lynch vote then the player with the longest held continuous vote against him will be lynched.

If you have any questions please ask.

[Lathum]

Roles going out in a few minutes

[Lathum]

1. Daddytorgo
2. KWhit
3. MollyMurphy- killed night 1- sorcerer
4. Peregrine-killed night 3- seer
5. NTNDeacon
6.Barkeep- lynched day 1- villegar
7.SNDVLS- killed night 2- villegar
8.AlanT
9. St Cronin- lynched day 2- hunter
10. HoopsGuy- killed night 4- villegar
11. Path- lynched day 3- villegar

[Lathum]

roles sent

[Lathum]

You spend some time poking around the hotel, which has all the comforts of home, if your home is a decrepit 16th century building that's falling apart and has no electricity, not to mention having a bunch of suspicious looking weirdos inhabiting it. There is a hot tub, but since the power is out it's just a pool of tepid water. However, hoopsguy is poking around looking for the sauna the first night you're there when he hears a terrible scream, and (like anyone would) goes to investigate alone. He finds the terribly mauled body of the innkeeper Lathum, who has apparently booked his last "Romantik Honimoon Advanture" (from some of the brochures you've seen around.) The old man's last words are a gasped "Avenge my death...by randomly lynching someone. It's the Romanian way!" Then he dies.

Feel free to talk among yourselves, but the rest of you are going to stay in your rooms at night from now on. Apparently someone read in a AAA guide that cursed werewolf-infested hotels are not safe at night. You have until Sunday at 10:30 pm to cast your votes on who will be lynched, and you can change your votes as many times as you want until then.

[st.cronin]

This is a solid group of players. I'm scared... and not a wolf.

[DaddyTorgo]

oooh look. I got a PM and for some reason I didn't get a popup for it. Bad bad board!

[ntndeacon]

I am not a wolf either.

[DaddyTorgo]

VOTE LATHUM

ohhhh....um wait. He's already dead. Guess he can't be one of the wolves we are looking for

[DaddyTorgo]

just a simple traveler here. Hoping we can get out of this alive and quickly so I can go off to see the castle of Vlad Tepes.

[Peregrine]

Just a quick post, I'm a regular villager. Let's get these wolves and get out of here!

[Alan T]

I'm here and just trying to survive. Help me!

[hoopsguy]

Top of the morning, all. I'm shocked that Lathum was not a wolf in this game.

[KWhit]

Hello all. Villager checking in.

[Barkeep49]

Cronin why are you scared if you're not a wolf? I know I'm not a wolf and I'm not scared. I don't want scared players.

Vote st.cronin

[st.cronin]

Cronin why are you scared if you're not a wolf? I know I'm not a wolf and I'm not scared. I don't want scared players.

Vote st.cronin

I see. The only players in this game who shouldn't be scared are the wolves. One way or another, we'll find out about you.

vote Barkeep

[hoopsguy]

Day 1 rocks.

[Barkeep49]

Day 1 rocks.
What a strange world view you have.

[path12]

Villager checking in.

[KWhit]

Cronin why are you scared if you're not a wolf? I know I'm not a wolf and I'm not scared. I don't want scared players.

Vote st.cronin


Very quick on the trigger finger.

[Peregrine]

Let's all calm down, we're going to have to be very careful to nail the right people in this game, since it's so small. Of course Day 1 just sucks in this regard. Let's wait till everyone's at least introduced themselves to break out the death threats.

[Barkeep49]

Very quick on the trigger finger.

Let's all calm down, we're going to have to be very careful to nail the right people in this game, since it's so small. Of course Day 1 just sucks in this regard. Let's wait till everyone's at least introduced themselves to break out the death threats.

I don't see how waiting for everyone is going to make this any more or less of a crapshoot. Not to mention I'm sitting at work and am happy to have some discussion going on.

[MollyMurphy]

Checking in and I'm a villager. Never been to Eastern Europe....not liking it so much.

[Alan T]

Actually just double checking my PM, I'm evidentally not a villager...

My PM told me that i was a villegar instead. Not sure what a villegar is, but I hope the wolves don't find them as tasty to eat.

[DaddyTorgo]

just want to throw it out there early that work looks like there's a lot going on in this coming week (got an RFI from Goldman Sachs for a client), so I likely won't be AS active as I was say...last game.

[SnDvls]

villager checking in

[SnDvls]

I'll be out most of today

and then going to the suns/spurs game tomorrow so
I'm putting in a place holder random day 1 vote

Vote DaddyTorgo

[hoopsguy]

Actually just double checking my PM, I'm evidentally not a villager...

My PM told me that i was a villegar instead. Not sure what a villegar is, but I hope the wolves don't find them as tasty to eat.

Counting on a moderator's savvy spelling seems an odd way to build trust :)

[Alan T]

Counting on a moderator's savvy spelling seems an odd way to build trust :)

It was more a way at picking fun of Lathum than anything else. I have to assume due to the spelling in my PM, that each pm was typed out individually.

I'm just having fun before I'm eaten.

[Lathum]

all of you can kiss my ass

[Barkeep49]

all of you can kiss my sas

I've never kissed one of those before...

[st.cronin]

Actually just double checking my PM, I'm evidentally not a villager...

My PM told me that i was a villegar instead. Not sure what a villegar is, but I hope the wolves don't find them as tasty to eat.

As a villager, I hate villegars. :mad:

[Barkeep49]

META Game note: I am actually surprised to see Alan quoting from his role PM.

[Alan T]

META Game note: I am actually surprised to see Alan quoting from his role PM.

Well 5 other people said they were a villager before I did. Just pretend i made that up to buy trust and Im really a wolf if you want.

Sorry for trying to have fun in a way I didn't feel was being unsporty!

[DaddyTorgo]

wow. Thanks sndvls...i'm honored

[Barkeep49]

You should return the favor DT just to show how honored you are.

[DaddyTorgo]

nah. I'd prefer not to throw my vote away to that extent. smells too...wolfish. I'd rather wait and see what's going on. I'm not afraid to put a 2nd or 3rd vote on someone on D1....someone has to.

[MollyMurphy]

Actually just double checking my PM, I'm evidentally not a villager...

My PM told me that i was a villegar instead. Not sure what a villegar is, but I hope the wolves don't find them as tasty to eat.

Let's face it...Lathum typically spells villager...villegar. I believe that the PM could say this or you could just be poking fun, but I also believe you could just as easily be trying to throw us off your trail.

VOTE ALAN T

[Lathum]

I just want to point out I actualy got lynched once for misspelling a word

[st.cronin]

I also would like to point out that Anxiety once spelled the word "the" three different ways in one post.

[KWhit]

VOTE MOLLYMURPHY

[Barkeep49]

VOTE MOLLYMURPHY
Look it's another one of the famous KWhy did he do that votes :)

[ntndeacon]

Vote Hoops
The only reason I have for this is that day 1 definately does not rock.

[Peregrine]

I'll just throw in a Day 1 random "lowest poster" vote

vote path12

[DaddyTorgo]

VOTE KWHIT

is he trying to get a run going on MM?

usual disclaimers...shaky D1 vote...subject to change...blah blah

[Barkeep49]

Vote count:

KWhit – DaddyTorgo(46)
St.cronin – Barkeep49(16)
Barkeep – st.cronin(17)
DaddyTorgo – SnDvls(28)
Alan T – MollyMurphy(39)
MollyMurphy – Kwhit(42)
Hoops – ntndeacon(44)
Path – Peregrine(45)

Not Voted: Alan, hoopsguy, path

I think it would be helpful for one of our three remaining people to cast a vote on an existing player so we can get some sort of debate going.

[hoopsguy]

Done, Barkeep. It's headed your way for random reasons on the Cronin vote coupled with asking Daddy Torgo to return votes on SnDvls.

VOTE BARKEEP49

[Barkeep49]

Well I didn't cast the first second vote since I didn't want one coming back to me but since it already has, I think Molly's suspicion of Alan's posts seems like the worst reason so I'll go ahead and

Unvote st.cronin
Vote Molly Murphy

[Barkeep49]

Vote count:

KWhit – DaddyTorgo(46)
Barkeep – st.cronin(17), hoopsguy(48)
DaddyTorgo – SnDvls(28)
Alan T – MollyMurphy(39)
MollyMurphy – Kwhit(42), barkeep49(49)
Hoops – ntndeacon(44)
Path – Peregrine(45)

Not Voted: Alan, hoopsguy, path

[Barkeep49]

Note that hoops should not be listed as not voted in the list above and that I cast the a vote in the 49th post, a fact I found cool.

[hoopsguy]

I'll try to give you space to do so for all future games, BK :)

Going to be out for awhile this afternoon, should be around prior to deadline if there is discussion of candidates.

[Barkeep49]

I'll try to give you space to do so for all future games, BK :)

Going to be out for awhile this afternoon, should be around prior to deadline if there is discussion of candidates.
Man I'm feeling the hate :P

[path12]

Best reason I saw was Molly's vote on Alan so I'll pile on there.

VOTE MOLLY MURPHY

[ntndeacon]

How many wolves do y'all think we have. 2? 3? If it is as I think, 2, then we can afford to be wrong on three days before it gets critical. If it is 3 of them, then we then we need to get one today or tomorrow.

[Alan T]

So its 3 votes molly, 2 votes barkeep, 1 everyone else and only me left to vote?

I can either condemn molly to death for her flawed analysis about me, or I can tie it up with Barkeep having the longest standing vote against him (St.cronin's vote) thus condemning him to lynch... Or I can vote somewhere else completely unrelated and leave that choice up to someone else.

I think I'll wait a bit and let them both sweat it out some. (oh and give any opportunities why I shouldn't vote one or the other)

[MollyMurphy]

How many wolves do y'all think we have. 2? 3? If it is as I think, 2, then we can afford to be wrong on three days before it gets critical. If it is 3 of them, then we then we need to get one today or tomorrow.

According to the set up by the innkeeper Lathum, "a pair werewolves come down from their den in the mountains"....that leads me to believe there are only 2.

[ntndeacon]

that is what iget for not reading it thouroughly.

[MollyMurphy]

Well I didn't cast the first second vote since I didn't want one coming back to me but since it already has, I think Molly's suspicion of Alan's posts seems like the worst reason so I'll go ahead and

Unvote st.cronin
Vote Molly Murphy

Hey, it's day one...at least I gave a reason. There have been votes without a reason at all.

[hoopsguy]

And back from a two year old birthday party this afternoon - doesn't appear that there has been much werewolf action while I was out.

I'm hoping the weekend Day 1 isn't messing with people's schedules too much here. It has been awfully quiet, even by Day 1 standards, given the group playing in this one.

[Alan T]

I was hoping for someone to help me decide which way to go with my vote, was hoping barkeep or molly to help with that since their necks are on the line, but the indifference from them both tell me neither have important roles if they are good, so it doesnt matter either way.

[hoopsguy]

The good news - you look like a genius if you cast the final vote for a wolf with the power to free/hang.

The bad news - an inordinate amount of blame when you are wrong, particularly as a vocal player.

If you want someone to bounce ideas off of, I'm going to be in and out before the deadline. I'm not married to my vote (it is Day 1) but haven't seen any compelling reason to change it yet.

[MollyMurphy]

I can assure you that I am NOT a wolf... so goes day one voting. I have learned in my first few games not to vote without a reason. I find a reason, and now I am in trouble for the reason I chose. What is even crazier to me is that there are votes that were made with absolutely no reason at all and they are fine...no suspicion at all.

[DaddyTorgo]

stick with it mol.

[Alan T]

The good news - you look like a genius if you cast the final vote for a wolf with the power to free/hang.

The bad news - an inordinate amount of blame when you are wrong, particularly as a vocal player.

If you want someone to bounce ideas off of, I'm going to be in and out before the deadline. I'm not married to my vote (it is Day 1) but haven't seen any compelling reason to change it yet.

I am guessing I am stuck with villager vs villager to choose from here. The person I want to vote for is kwhit, but doing so is the same as voting molly at this point.

[hoopsguy]

Why Kwhit? If there is a strong argument I'm not married to my Barkeep vote.

[MollyMurphy]

I am guessing I am stuck with villager vs villager to choose from here. The person I want to vote for is kwhit, but doing so is the same as voting molly at this point.

Kwhit is one of the 2 who placed random votes, no reason, and has not done much else. Sndvls did as well.

[DaddyTorgo]

kwit threw down the first vote on MM without any explanation and then ran. Guess that's the explanation for that

[Alan T]

Well, my thought is I know Im a good guy, the wolves know Im a good guy, I think MM's reason to vote me was so poor that even a wolf wouldn't front that, but a wolf would use her vote as a reason to jump on her. The way Kwhit did it was the old "she's obviously trying to jump on Alan for no reason so I'll vote her" vote.

Out of the three, I feel more likely he is the wolf

[hoopsguy]

I guess you can point to the "no explanation" vote as questionable, but I'm not sure how fair it is to call something "hit and run" over the weekend.

So, why KWhit over SnDvls to pick another name here? Just trying to flesh out thoughts on this, as Alan seems pretty confident that the two people in the lead are villager vs villager, despite the fact that there is no role that could be certain of this information outside of a wolf. I'm fine with playing gut instinct, but I want to understand the thought process before I back it.

[hoopsguy]

Alternate explanation - KWhit responded to your "villegar" post, saw the same thing in his role PM, and put his vote out there to protect you from someone who seemed to be jumping on you.

I have no idea what KWhit's thought process was - it would be convenient if he was here to talk about this himself. But if you were a wolf, how would you respond to potential for your post to start creating a circle of trust? Would you try to remove the center (Alan) or would you try to align with him? From what you are posting, it seems like you think the latter.

[ntndeacon]

My vote can be changed as well. your reasoning is more sound than anything Ican come up with.

[MollyMurphy]

Well, my thought is I know Im a good guy, the wolves know Im a good guy, I think MM's reason to vote me was so poor that even a wolf wouldn't front that, but a wolf would use her vote as a reason to jump on her. The way Kwhit did it was the old "she's obviously trying to jump on Alan for no reason so I'll vote her" vote.

Out of the three, I feel more likely he is the wolf

Let's face it, everyone's reason on day one sucks... We have a vote made for someone being scared, one for the lowest # of posts on day 1, etc. None of them are good...

[MollyMurphy]

Given that I am in a tough position right now and it started w/ Barkeep changing his vote.

UNVOTE ALAN T

VOTE BARKEEP

[Lathum]

Current Vote count with 30 minutes until deadline.

Barkeep 3 ( St.Cronin 17,Hoopsguy 48, MollyMurphy 74 )
DaddyTorgo 1 ( Sndvls 28 )
MollyMurphy 3 ( Kwhit 42, Barkeep 49, Path 54 )
Hoopsguy 1 ( NTNdeacon 44 )
Path12 1 ( Peregrine 45 )
Kwhit 1 ( Daddytorgo 46 )

Not Voted AlanT

[Peregrine]

I hate Day 1 voting, you basically just have to take a wild stab at it and see if you get it right. We're looking at a tied vote right now, yes? I hate to be a late vote tiebreaker because you never live that down, heh.

[hoopsguy]

Well, the person who is the late vote tiebreaker often lives to see the next day and makes themself a target for the seer scan. So I don't think it is all bad.

[KWhit]

Alternate explanation - KWhit responded to your "villegar" post, saw the same thing in his role PM, and put his vote out there to protect you from someone who seemed to be jumping on you.

Yep.

I didn't want to actually come out and state it because I HATE IT when we form COTs from what our PMs say, but that's it. He misspelled "villegar" in my PM too. So when Molly voted for you, I figured she didn't get the same PM you did, and therefore has a high possibility of being a wolf.

[MollyMurphy]

Lathum always spells villager wrong...I am sure everyone agrees....

[hoopsguy]

Hmm, I'm surprised that there was no movement at the end here. Would either support the villegar (er, villager) vs villager scenario or just imply that people aren't around tonight. But plenty of people have popped in over the last couple of hours and not made a move to cast a vote for one of the two main participants: Alan T, Peregrine, NTN, and DaddyT. SnDvls is the only one without a vote on either BK/MM that I haven't seen here this evening.

[Lathum]

deadline

[hoopsguy]

Lathum always spells villager wrong...I am sure everyone agrees....

There are 18 werewolf threads with the word "villegar" included. I'm not going to search every one to see if Lathum is the person spelling it this way, but one stuck out for me:

http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/showthread.php?t=56597&highlight=villegar

This was a 1 post thread from Lathum :)

Oh, and this one - the original that this game is based upon, from June 2005.

http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/showthread.php?t=40003&page=3&highlight=villegar Post #147.

So I would agree that we have to concede the villegar point, Molly :cool:

[DaddyTorgo]

I figured it was villegar vs. villegar and honestly didn't think that one was a better choice than the vote I already had out there.

[Lathum]

At the end of the day, everyone gathers and their votes are cast.

Barkeep 3 ( St.Cronin 17,Hoopsguy 48, MollyMurphy 74 )
DaddyTorgo 1 ( Sndvls 28 )
MollyMurphy 3 ( Kwhit 42, Barkeep 49, Path 54 )
Hoopsguy 1 ( NTNdeacon 44 )
Path12 1 ( Peregrine 45 )
Kwhit 1 ( Daddytorgo 46 )

Not Voted AlanT

3 people agree that Barkeep must go, so he is introduced to the sturdy roof beams and plentiful coils of rope on the hotel porch, proclaiming his innocence all the way. Unfortunately, he doesn't change forms as he is hung, so apparently he was an innocent villager after all, just as he said.

Night Turn 2

Lathum - killed Night 1 (innkeeper)
1. Daddytorgo
2. KWhit
3. MollyMurphy
4. Peregrine
5. NTNDeacon
6.Barkeep- villegar- lynched day 1
7.SNDVLS
8.AlanT
9. St Cronin
10. HoopsGuy
11. Path

Wolves, PM me your kill for the night.
Seer, PM me who you want to view.

[hoopsguy]

If the seer is soliciting advice, I would ask him to take a look at Molly so we can determine if there is any real meaning in the votes from today.

[Barkeep49]

Oh well.

[DaddyTorgo]

sorry barkeep

[SnDvls]

wow. Thanks sndvls...i'm honored

you are welcome....just got home from after the Suns post game pitty party and a visit over at my dad's.

looks like we struck out on a wolf today...hopefully tomorrow will bring better results.

[Peregrine]

Lathum, just for confirmation, are we doing full role reveal in the game? The way you phrased it in the post seemed sort of iffy.

[Lathum]

Lathum, just for confirmation, are we doing full role reveal in the game? The way you phrased it in the post seemed sort of iffy.

how is that?

[Peregrine]

I guess it was the way you said "apparently he was an innocent villager after all." I just wanted to make sure we'd find out if a dead person had some special role.

[Lathum]

I guess it was the way you said "apparently he was an innocent villager after all." I just wanted to make sure we'd find out if a dead person had some special role.

well I was quoting you after all...:)

[Lathum]

The sounds of screams, rending and tearing are heard in the night, but no one dares leave the room until daylight. When everyone shuffles out into the dim morning light, one person is missing: MollyMurphy. her mangled remains are given a quick burial behind the hotel, and there is now one less villager among you.

[Peregrine]

Ugh, so now we're down to 9. Let's see, both the primary subjects from yesterday are day, so we'll need to start all over.

Alan T, why didn't you vote yesterday? In a small game, it kind of stands out.

Anyone else we want information from today? So far, the wolves are playing us for chumps, with two good guys dead.

[Peregrine]

err that should read, the primary subjects from yesterday are dead, obviously

[Alan T]

Ugh, so now we're down to 9. Let's see, both the primary subjects from yesterday are day, so we'll need to start all over.

Alan T, why didn't you vote yesterday? In a small game, it kind of stands out.

Anyone else we want information from today? So far, the wolves are playing us for chumps, with two good guys dead.

My comments about it are above just a few posts up.

I didn't want to vote either of them, I tried to convince people to select a different choice with me, but no one did.

Since both were villagers like I guessed, which would you have rather me have lynched? Any other vote at the time would have been a throw away anyways, so who cares? I was obviously in the thread, active and participating. And I stated who my preference for a vote would had been (Kwhit). So if you must tie me down to a selection, just use that.

[hoopsguy]

Hmm, curious choice for the kill. Clearly Molly would have been discussed today as a wolf option.

[Peregrine]

My comments about it are above just a few posts up.

I didn't want to vote either of them, I tried to convince people to select a different choice with me, but no one did.

Since both were villagers like I guessed, which would you have rather me have lynched? Any other vote at the time would have been a throw away anyways, so who cares? I was obviously in the thread, active and participating. And I stated who my preference for a vote would had been (Kwhit). So if you must tie me down to a selection, just use that.

I can certainly understand that, no one wanted to throw their vote and break a deadlock of people they didn't have a strong feeling for. We're going to have to poke around and see what we can find, evidence wise. Not too much in the way of voting patterns now that Molly is also dead.

[Alan T]

This is the first game in a long time that I've gotten a pretty bad wolf vibe from Hoops. I had thought the medication I was taken had cured me of that.

[DaddyTorgo]

i'm here. like i said, ton of work to be done this week at work, so don't like for me to be overly active.

can we please start letting MM live past D1/N1. I'm starting to get really sad for her...cut her a damm break.

Prolly won't check in again till around lunchtime though i will have the thread open. Needta get some of this work under my belt.

[hoopsguy]

This is the first game in a long time that I've gotten a pretty bad wolf vibe from Hoops. I had thought the medication I was taken had cured me of that.

Check the dosages on the medication. Just your average tourist here.

I'm willing to play out one more day under the assumption that we're on the same team but I would like some thoughts on why you seemed pretty sure that Barkeep and Molly were both on the same team. Obviously you were right, but that seemed like a little bit of a leap to make yesterday. Especially when those were the two people that were challenging you, either directly or indirectly on your PM observation.

[hoopsguy]

Also, I just checked Page 1 ... lets not shed too many tears for Molly this game as the wolves just took out the sorcerer for us.

[Alan T]

Check the dosages on the medication. Just your average tourist here.

I'm willing to play out one more day under the assumption that we're on the same team but I would like some thoughts on why you seemed pretty sure that Barkeep and Molly were both on the same team. Obviously you were right, but that seemed like a little bit of a leap to make yesterday. Especially when those were the two people that were challenging you, either directly or indirectly on your PM observation.

I pretty much already addressed the Molly issue, I just don't think it would be a smart play for her to make if she was a wolf in that situation. She normally wouldn't be scanned day 1, she probably could hide UtR a day or two, so why draw attention to yourself in the way she did by throwing that arguement against me out there like that and either get yourself lynched, or end up being an early seer scan target? It doesn't make sense on level 1 thinking to me or level 2 thinking. The only way I could reasonably think it would be a wolf play would be on a third level of thinking that I don't see happening in a small game where you would be gambling on who the seer is and if they would bite that or not. I just didn't buy it.

Barkeep I didn't really comment on much, but his only real comment towards me was the Meta game comment, and he probably was right. There is a reason you don't quote PMs in the game, and its to make the games not be unfair. I didn't intend to do so to form any circle of trust, or to try to setup the wolves for it, I honestly found it funny, and wanted to pick fun at Lathum for it. After Barkeep's comment, he probably was right and thats why I said what I did. Just assume that I remembered the endless amount of times people had made fun of Lathum for it and had saved it for another one of his games one day to try to use it to buy trust. I didn't and still don't want people to trust me or not trust me due to me claiming he said that in my PM. Thats all it was a claim just like anyone else who had said they were a villager claims. Believe it at the same length you believe anyone else. I didn't really see any real reason for the votes on Barkeep either.

I commented, actually threatened being the lynch vote on either of them. I laid it out there with enough time for them or anyone else to make a move to try to "protect" both of them. I then tossed out another candidate bait to see if I could get anyone to move off of them with me. No one cared to do anything, and it just told me that no one out there really cared which lived or died, and most likely it was just villager vs villager. In the end, since neither stated they were seer or bodyguard, there wasn't any huge reason for me to go out on a limb to save one or the other, so I just let things play out as they did.

I still find Kwhit's vote the "oddest" that day and to some extent, I had the feeling of you (Hoopsguy) "protecting" him, by first tossing out an excuse for hiim to be able to jump on for his vote later when he did return, as well as throwing out a completely unrelated and irrelevant name (Sndvls) when I brought his up. I also didn't like how you threw out a suggestion for the seer to scan and then that suggestion end up dead. It somewhat felt like you wanted a "wasted" scan on someone rather than a more likely scan on an "established veteran" such as you might likely draw on night 1. Chances are Molly wouldn't have been the target for day 2, as she voted to save herself and that condemned Barkeep. People don't usually react strongly to selfpreservation votes.

Anyways, I'm probably 100% wrong, but out of day 1, the two wolves I felt were Kwhit and Hoopsguy. Like I said though, maybe my medication needs new dosages.

[DaddyTorgo]

Also, I just checked Page 1 ... lets not shed too many tears for Molly this game as the wolves just took out the sorcerer for us.

haha. well done wolves. thanks a lot!

[hoopsguy]

Alan, there was no attempt to protect KWhit. Discussion was dormant, I was trying to have a conversation with you about potentially moving votes over to KWhit as an alternative. In terms of providing an excuse for him, so be it if the alternative was moving votes without discussion. He had not been around all day up to that point and only appeared 15-20 minutes before the deadline.

In terms of intent with the villegar comments, I don't think we can put the genie back in the bottle. It is out there, people have reacted to it one way or another. Frankly, I'm surprised you were not the night kill last night given that there is not a bodyguard role in the game.

[KWhit]

I still find Kwhit's vote the "oddest" that day and to some extent,
...
Anyways, I'm probably 100% wrong, but out of day 1, the two wolves I felt were Kwhit and Hoopsguy. Like I said though, maybe my medication needs new dosages.

Why in the world would you find my vote choice odd? It was perfectly logical and my theory proved to be correct - she was not a "villegar" after all. She was the sorcerer.

[KWhit]

haha. well done wolves. thanks a lot!

That kill actually makes good sense. They saw that she did not receive the villegar PM. They knew she wasn't a wolf. So they had a pretty good chance of killing the seer.

[SnDvls]

Odd choice indeed for the wolves knowing that she would probally get some suspicision today...sucks for them really :D

now on to today to nab a wolf.

[path12]

I find the Molly kill really strange, especially considering there are pretty much just vets playing other than her. I would have looked for inexperienced wolves but that's not going to help. Hmmm.

[hoopsguy]

11 players starting
5 specials (2 wolves, hunter, seer, sorcerer)
6 villagers

Ratio is now at 4/5 (role/villager). The interesting part about this game for me is how it plays out for the seer. They don't have a bodyguard to protect them, so if they are in a position of having to reveal they are dead meat the following night.

[st.cronin]

Its not all that strange that Molly would be killed, considering that the seer was more or less asked to scan her, and there was almost no chance the bodyguard would protect her.

[Peregrine]

Its not all that strange that Molly would be killed, considering that the seer was more or less asked to scan her, and there was almost no chance the bodyguard would protect her.

Good point, especially since there is no bodyguard!

[st.cronin]

Good point, especially since there is no bodyguard!

hmmmmmmm, ok never mind

[hoopsguy]

Its not all that strange that Molly would be killed, considering that the seer was more or less asked to scan her, and there was almost no chance the bodyguard would protect her.

I guess, but they also would like to flush out the seer in a game with no bodyguard. Which could be potentially getting the seer to intervene with the vote to save someone who was under suspicion. In a small game there isn't much room for early misses, so it might be worth it for a seer to come out and save someone to give a better shot at a good lynch today.

Note - this is not an attempt to get the seer to carry out this action at some later point in the game :p

But there is a zero percent chance of that happening if the seer in fact scanned Molly last night. The wolves knew there would be no bodyguard, so they could take their shot at whoever they wanted. So why take out someone who was going to be a topic of discussion today?

The "hoping to get the seer" explanation makes a lot more sense to me than this line of thought.

[st.cronin]

I guess, but they also would like to flush out the seer in a game with no bodyguard. Which could be potentially getting the seer to intervene with the vote to save someone who was under suspicion. In a small game there isn't much room for early misses, so it might be worth it for a seer to come out and save someone to give a better shot at a good lynch today.

Note - this is not an attempt to get the seer to carry out this action at some later point in the game :p

But there is a zero percent chance of that happening if the seer in fact scanned Molly last night. The wolves knew there would be no bodyguard, so they could take their shot at whoever they wanted. So why take out someone who was going to be a topic of discussion today?

The "hoping to get the seer" explanation makes a lot more sense to me than this line of thought.


Why would they think she was the seer, though? I saw nothing in her posts that would remotely make me think that.

[hoopsguy]

I can buy the idea that they saw Molly as not buying into the "villegar" debate and going after the person who began the discussion on the topic. But that is about the only thing I saw from Molly that would me to believe there was anything different going on with her. In fact, this was the person I was most likely to shift away from Barkeep to vote for because of this logic. Obviously my wolf radar was not too keen yesterday.

[st.cronin]

Ok, well I'm going to

VOTE KWHIT

Since he voted for Molly yesterday. I realize that would be non-standard wolf play, but I've got nothing else to go on.

[KWhit]

Ok, well I'm going to

VOTE KWHIT

Since he voted for Molly yesterday. I realize that would be non-standard wolf play, but I've got nothing else to go on.


What? I completely do not understand this. If anything, I should be one of the most trusted, since I jumped on Molly because she obviously did not get the "villegar" PM. I have 100% trust in Alan right now because I know he got the same PM as me. I acted on that knowledge by voting for the one person who it was obvious did not get that villegar PM. And I was correct in doing so.

[KWhit]

Why would they think she was the seer, though? I saw nothing in her posts that would remotely make me think that.

Read my earlier posts on the subject.

They knew she did not get the villegar PM, so she had to have some kind of role.

They knew she was not a wolf.

That meant she had to be either the seer, hunter or sorcerer. Very good odds. The chance to kill the seer before she outed either of them was too good to pass up, so they ate her.

[DaddyTorgo]

Read my earlier posts on the subject.

They knew she did not get the villegar PM, so she had to have some kind of role.

They knew she was not a wolf.

That meant she had to be either the seer, hunter or sorcerer. Very good odds. The chance to kill the seer before she outed either of them was too good to pass up, so they ate her.

devil's advocate...or you are a wolf trying to get us to make a run on her in order so that we take her out for you and thus improve your odds.

not sure i actually believe that, but i just like to make sure that all sides of the story are out there for people to see and consider.

[path12]

Read my earlier posts on the subject.

They knew she did not get the villegar PM, so she had to have some kind of role.

They knew she was not a wolf.

That meant she had to be either the seer, hunter or sorcerer. Very good odds. The chance to kill the seer before she outed either of them was too good to pass up, so they ate her.

OK, that theory makes a lot of sense to me. I guess it wasn't such a strange target after all.

As for the seer, IMO it's well worth the sacrifice once they find half of our wolf problem. Plus with the sorceror gone now the false reveal shouldn't be an issue.

[Lathum]

For christs sake can you please all put the PM issue to sleep. I don't even know where it came from.

Molly's PM

you are the sorcerer. You want the wolves to win and achieve a victory if they do. You do not know who the wolves are and they don't know you.

You come up as a villegar on any seer scans and count as a villegar for winning conditions.

you all know I can't spell for shit so lets try and keep the reasons for voting in game

[DaddyTorgo]

For christs sake can you please all put the PM issue to sleep. I don't even know where it came from.

Molly's PM



you all know I can't spell for shit so lets try and keep the reasons for voting in game


hear hear. enough of this. let's play the damm game and put it to rest.

[Peregrine]

Yeah thanks for posting that, it was starting to seem pretty ridiculous to tie an entire game to a GM's misspellings, whether this was correct or not. So, targets today. I don't see many good ones really but we have to vote for someone.

Any ideas? Should we just try to pressure someone?

[Alan T]

Yeah thanks for posting that, it was starting to seem pretty ridiculous to tie an entire game to a GM's misspellings, whether this was correct or not. So, targets today. I don't see many good ones really but we have to vote for someone.

Any ideas? Should we just try to pressure someone?

I'm still leaning towards voting Hoops

[path12]

hear hear. enough of this. let's play the damm game and put it to rest.

You spelled damn wrong. ;)

VOTE DADDY TORGO

[DaddyTorgo]

You spelled damn wrong. ;)

VOTE DADDY TORGO


haha. jerk.

:mad:

i presume you'll unvote before the deadline?

i think there is at least the potential to be made for cases against hoops, kwit, and maybe cronin again (if we're going back to his 'i'm scared' comment with any seriousness, which personally i don't know if i would).

[Peregrine]

I reread the thread, and I have to say if anyone is suspicious, Kwhit is. There's not any strong evidence, just a feeling. He seems to be pretty in tune with what "the wolves" are thinking. In the interest of building some pressure. We'll see what happens!

vote Kwhit

[hoopsguy]

I'm still leaning towards voting Hoops

Then you will be voting for a villager, which I guess you can debate is better/worse than not casting a vote yesterday. And if you get enough people to follow you then I'll see my long streak of never being lynched as a villager come to an end, which would make me sad.

I'm going to work with the assumption that a seer is not going to come out and magically deliver us this vote. So, time to get cracking on figuring out where to go with this vote.

[hoopsguy]

haha. jerk.

:mad:

i presume you'll unvote before the deadline?

i think there is at least the potential to be made for cases against hoops, kwit, and maybe cronin again (if we're going back to his 'i'm scared' comment with any seriousness, which personally i don't know if i would).

Can you lay out the cases against each of us? I'm genuinely interested in what kind of cases are being made against anyone at this point. Half of the remaining people in the game have cast votes for either a villager or the sorceror (who the wolves did not know), and the other half didn't actively participate in the "showdown" yesterday. So if the criteria for suspecting someone isn't around voting patterns, then what is it?

[Alan T]

Then you will be voting for a villager, which I guess you can debate is better/worse than not casting a vote yesterday. And if you get enough people to follow you then I'll see my long streak of never being lynched as a villager come to an end, which would make me sad.

I'm going to work with the assumption that a seer is not going to come out and magically deliver us this vote. So, time to get cracking on figuring out where to go with this vote.


No one's ever accused me of being always right, or a genius or anything.. Usually just stubborn and annoyingly persistant once I have my mind made up on something :)

[DaddyTorgo]

hoops...i didn't say it was my case against you. it seemed more like it was alan's case to lay out and make.

as for me...since path misspelled my name (he put a damn space in it)

VOTE PATH12

pretty sure that will change, but for now it's amusing me.

[st.cronin]

So the following players didn't vote for either Molly or BK on day 1:

SnDvls
ntndeacon
Peregrine
DaddyTorgo
AlanT

Alan, DT, and Peregrine were around close to deadline. I don't know about the other two.

I'm not particularly suspicious of anybody right now.

[hoopsguy]

DT, or anyone who wants to do so, I'm putting the challenge out there to make a real case against someone today based on what we've got so far. I think that is pretty challenging to do at this point given the events that we have had so far.

Each of the people who have special roles at this time have all kinds of incentive to play close to the vest right now, so everyone is going to be a villager until they are on the line. Then maybe we will see someone claim to be something else.

DT - I'm just trying to figure out why you would present an argument about three candidates and then shrink away when I challenge you on it. If you don't feel good about the case on me, or can't at least regurgitate something someone else has already said, then why throw my name out there as a candidate? And even if you don't feel good about the case against me, then do either of your other two candidates (KWhit and Cronin) feel like better options? I'm guessing no, since you then moved on to vote for Path. Where is a "scratching head" icon when you need one?

[hoopsguy]

So the following players didn't vote for either Molly or BK on day 1:

SnDvls
ntndeacon
Peregrine
DaddyTorgo
AlanT

Alan, DT, and Peregrine were around close to deadline. I don't know about the other two.

I'm not particularly suspicious of anybody right now.

NTN was as well. There was no sign of SnDvls.

[ntndeacon]

My first thought is that the Molly kill was an effort to frame hoops. He did nnounce to the world for the seer to view her. The wolves could have used that as a way to kill 2 birds with one stone so to speak. Make the seeing worthless for tonight, (which may or may not have happened) and it does draw a target on hoops back.

[st.cronin]

DT, or anyone who wants to do so, I'm putting the challenge out there to make a real case against someone today based on what we've got so far. I think that is pretty challenging to do at this point given the events that we have had so far.

I agree entirely with this. The case against KWhit is thinner than water, but I don't see anything else at all out there.

[ntndeacon]

NTN was as well. There was no sign of SnDvls.

Yup I was there. and was paying some attention. I probably would have moved if Alan had gone to KWhit. (Assuming I had not gotten involved with my backgammon iwas playing too.)

[st.cronin]

My first thought is that the Molly kill was an effort to frame hoops. He did nnounce to the world for the seer to view her. The wolves could have used that as a way to kill 2 birds with one stone so to speak. Make the seeing worthless for tonight, (which may or may not have happened) and it does draw a target on hoops back.

How does it put a target on hoops? I don't see that at all.

[ntndeacon]

well Hoops called for the person that was killed to be scanned, wasting the scanning of the seer.

[path12]

haha. jerk.

:mad:

i presume you'll unvote before the deadline?


I don't know if I will, since I don't see the case against KWhit -- after all, he was the first vote on the sorceror, so even if he was bad he didn't hurt us a lot. I'd rather see a scan on him before going that way.

So then it comes down to hunches. And I got a hunch about you.

[ntndeacon]

and so since no one has a lot to go on, that might convince them that hoops is a way to go. I am not saying it was a clever ploy by the wolves, but it does hold together somewhat, that that could have been a reason.

[Alan T]

Yup I was there. and was paying some attention. I probably would have moved if Alan had gone to KWhit. (Assuming I had not gotten involved with my backgammon iwas playing too.)

Was pointless for me to put a vote on him when no one else even mentioned they would go with me on him then. I sat and watched to see if anything else developed, but the only thing that occured was Molly moving her vote to protect herself. After that i still was left with either:

1) Throwing away my vote, which is what I ended up doing
2) Voting for molly and killing her
3) Voting for barkeep and killing him.

If you were willing to switch to kwhit at the time, I sure wasn't aware of it. The only person I had any conversation about it that I remembered was Hoops who seemed very much more willing to see Barkeep dead than Kwhit dead.

[ntndeacon]

well Iam off to administer another final wont be back on til after 5 CST I will do my voting at that point.

[Alan T]

and so since no one has a lot to go on, that might convince them that hoops is a way to go. I am not saying it was a clever ploy by the wolves, but it does hold together somewhat, that that could have been a reason.

My issues with this are:

1) Hoops usually is an early Seer scan target
2) Hoops tried to convince the seer to scan elsewhere instead of a likely vet (such as himself)
3) If the Wolves were very afraid of hoops and wanted him dead, they would have just night killed him. No bodyguard = they could kill off anyone they wanted including hoops if they were most afraid of him.

[ntndeacon]

Well, my thought is I know Im a good guy, the wolves know Im a good guy, I think MM's reason to vote me was so poor that even a wolf wouldn't front that, but a wolf would use her vote as a reason to jump on her. The way Kwhit did it was the old "she's obviously trying to jump on Alan for no reason so I'll vote her" vote.

Out of the three, I feel more likely he is the wolf

My vote can be changed as well. your reasoning is more sound than anything Ican come up with.

Just wanted to make you aware that I did suggest changing my vote. I admit Idid not name Kwhit, but since it was only a couple of posts after your comments I thought it was inferred. If not iwill make it plainer in the future

[ntndeacon]

now ireally am off talk you y'all later

[st.cronin]

It wouldn't surprise me at all if the wolves were KWhit and either ntndeacon or Alan T. I think as a villager you have to use your vote, rather than worry about how it makes you look after the fact. Both of them seem to have been worried about how it would look.

[DaddyTorgo]

hoops...i've stated that i'm busy at work. i was essentially summarizing, a "where are we at now" type of post. stating the three people whom others had mentioned as being candidates. frankly i havn't had any time to think about it today.

and my vote for path was a joke. as i assume his was for me...he voted for me cuz i misspelled a word, so i voted for him because he misspelled my SN.

[DaddyTorgo]

dola

and i'd like to point out that i was already on kwit last night alan. i'd certainly consider that a way that made some sense to go today.

[Alan T]

It wouldn't surprise me at all if the wolves were KWhit and either ntndeacon or Alan T. I think as a villager you have to use your vote, rather than worry about how it makes you look after the fact. Both of them seem to have been worried about how it would look.

Where did I say I cared how it looked? If I cared how it looked, wouldn't I have just thrown my vote away on kwhit and left it at that? Its a day 1 vote. Show me where I said that i cared how anyone else perceived my vote at all :)

[hoopsguy]

My issues with this are:

1) Hoops usually is an early Seer scan target
2) Hoops tried to convince the seer to scan elsewhere instead of a likely vet (such as himself)
3) If the Wolves were very afraid of hoops and wanted him dead, they would have just night killed him. No bodyguard = they could kill off anyone they wanted including hoops if they were most afraid of him.

1) Yep, only one person out there knows who was actually scanned last night
2) If the person didn't want to scan Molly, then they should have scanned me for suggesting it. Also, #2 would have potentially been more compelling (to me, anyway) if it had been offered up before the person I suggested showed up dead this morning
3) There was no good reason for them to kill me over other players in this game when I had a significant role in lynching villager Barkeep

Suffice it to say that I don't think the wolves were particularly afraid of me or putting together strategies with the express purpose of making my life more difficult.

[Alan T]

Just wanted to make you aware that I did suggest changing my vote. I admit Idid not name Kwhit, but since it was only a couple of posts after your comments I thought it was inferred. If not iwill make it plainer in the future

You posted that after Hoops had posted defending kwhit. So I had assumed you were referring to that in your post.

[Alan T]

dola

and i'd like to point out that i was already on kwit last night alan. i'd certainly consider that a way that made some sense to go today.

I'm not that hot to vote kwhit today, I was more thinking about doing so last night rather than voting Barkeep or MM. I'm not quite sure yet where I will vote, heck maybe I'll not vote again today! :D


Right now we don't have alot to go on, so its all just speculation and gut feelings, and right now my gut hurts from eating chocolate cake after lunch

[hoopsguy]

You posted that after Hoops had posted defending kwhit. So I had assumed you were referring to that in your post.

If you continue to insist that I "defended" KWhit then we are going to continue to disagree on this point. I wanted to understand why KWhit was the target of your suspicions at the time. I had interpreted his actions differently than you had and put those thoughts out there with the intention of continuing a discussion. You disappeared without casting a vote and today are going after me as being somehow linked with him.

[hoopsguy]

I'm going to work with the assumption that one of our two wolves would have voted for a leading candidate yesterday. I think it is easier to blend in there than on an isolated candidate, all things being equal.

Barkeep 3 ( St.Cronin 17,Hoopsguy 48, MollyMurphy 74 )
DaddyTorgo 1 ( Sndvls 28 )
MollyMurphy 3 ( Kwhit 42, Barkeep 49, Path 54 )
Hoopsguy 1 ( NTNdeacon 44 )
Path12 1 ( Peregrine 45 )
Kwhit 1 ( Daddytorgo 46 )

Not Voted AlanT

You can take out Barkeep and Molly, who voted for each other. I can take my own name out, which leaves me with three people to consider for today. Does this give me better odds than a random guess?

Random - nine left, take self out, eight left, 2/8 = 25%
Theory - one out of three voters = 33%

What would be even better is if I have some legitimate reason to suspect someone on the list of three names: Cronin, KWhit, Path. I'm not sure that I'm there yet, but will do some post hunting when I get home this evening (about to disappear for a few hours) focusing on these three unless someone has a better theory/odds.

[DaddyTorgo]

I'm not that hot to vote kwhit today, I was more thinking about doing so last night rather than voting Barkeep or MM. I'm not quite sure yet where I will vote, heck maybe I'll not vote again today! :D


Right now we don't have alot to go on, so its all just speculation and gut feelings, and right now my gut hurts from eating chocolate cake after lunch


mmmm cake! chocolate cake!!!


p.s. how's the baby?

[Alan T]

If you continue to insist that I "defended" KWhit then we are going to continue to disagree on this point. I wanted to understand why KWhit was the target of your suspicions at the time. I had interpreted his actions differently than you had and put those thoughts out there with the intention of continuing a discussion. You disappeared without casting a vote and today are going after me as being somehow linked with him.

The reason I "phrase" it as defending Kwhit is because you gave multiple "defenses" for him after I stated my reasons for wanting to vote him.

Well, my thought is I know Im a good guy, the wolves know Im a good guy, I think MM's reason to vote me was so poor that even a wolf wouldn't front that, but a wolf would use her vote as a reason to jump on her. The way Kwhit did it was the old "she's obviously trying to jump on Alan for no reason so I'll vote her" vote.

Out of the three, I feel more likely he is the wolf

Was my reason here sound? Who knows. its day 1 vote, what do I know about people?

I guess you can point to the "no explanation" vote as questionable, but I'm not sure how fair it is to call something "hit and run" over the weekend.

So, why KWhit over SnDvls to pick another name here? Just trying to flesh out thoughts on this, as Alan seems pretty confident that the two people in the lead are villager vs villager, despite the fact that there is no role that could be certain of this information outside of a wolf. I'm fine with playing gut instinct, but I want to understand the thought process before I back it.

Your first defense was the alternate target defense of Sndvls whom you named without even giving a reason here. I don't understand the reasoning for throwing his name out without the "evidence" you wanted me to provide for kwhit.


Alternate explanation - KWhit responded to your "villegar" post, saw the same thing in his role PM, and put his vote out there to protect you from someone who seemed to be jumping on you.

I have no idea what KWhit's thought process was - it would be convenient if he was here to talk about this himself. But if you were a wolf, how would you respond to potential for your post to start creating a circle of trust? Would you try to remove the center (Alan) or would you try to align with him? From what you are posting, it seems like you think the latter.

The next defense was the one that he then popped in with saying "Yep thats the reason"

Like I said before, your actions got my wolf-radar tingling. You seemed alot more willing to give Kwhit the benefit of the doubt than you were for Barkeep, whom you placed a vote on simply because of Barkeep tossing out a rather silly reason to vote Cronin (for a day 1 vote that no one had anything but silly reasons to vote) as well as his having fun with DT stating he should return the favor on a vote on Sndvls (whom you later seemed to egg me into voting for in the same humerous manner)

So then Barkeep changed his vote for basically the same reason that Kwhit voted and you showed him the complete opposite reaction as you did for kwhit.



It just felt pretty inconsistant for your norm Hoops in how you handled similar situations through multiple people. Like I said, it just got me tingling, but you just felt all over the place on people and I am not sure why.

[Alan T]

mmmm cake! chocolate cake!!!


p.s. how's the baby?


Doing well!

[DaddyTorgo]

Doing well!


more pixplzkthnx? in the baby thread!! hope the lady is doing better too.


interesting points you bring up about hoops.

UNVOTE PATH

I didn't think he was actually serious, I thought he was just joking around.

[DaddyTorgo]

dola

although that'd be a nice excuse to hide your vote if you are a wolf path

[hoopsguy]

The reason I "phrase" it as defending Kwhit is because you gave multiple "defenses" for him after I stated my reasons for wanting to vote him.



Was my reason here sound? Who knows. its day 1 vote, what do I know about people?



Your first defense was the alternate target defense of Sndvls whom you named without even giving a reason here. I don't understand the reasoning for throwing his name out without the "evidence" you wanted me to provide for kwhit.




The next defense was the one that he then popped in with saying "Yep thats the reason"

Like I said before, your actions got my wolf-radar tingling. You seemed alot more willing to give Kwhit the benefit of the doubt than you were for Barkeep, whom you placed a vote on simply because of Barkeep tossing out a rather silly reason to vote Cronin (for a day 1 vote that no one had anything but silly reasons to vote) as well as his having fun with DT stating he should return the favor on a vote on Sndvls (whom you later seemed to egg me into voting for in the same humerous manner)

So then Barkeep changed his vote for basically the same reason that Kwhit voted and you showed him the complete opposite reaction as you did for kwhit.



It just felt pretty inconsistant for your norm Hoops in how you handled similar situations through multiple people. Like I said, it just got me tingling, but you just felt all over the place on people and I am not sure why.

SnDvls was brought up because he was another person who put a vote out without any reason (placeholder vote). I just chose him as another person who was equally low key about their initial vote, albeit on a different person than KWhit selected.

If I was guilty of anything with KWhit, it was projecting my own initial trust of you onto his actions because they were consistent with my own - looking for people who seemed to be either directly or indirectly undermining your PM info. I have no idea which side he is playing on, but I wanted to better understand how you looked at the playing field and ended up with him as he was fairly low on my list of people I would have voted for at the time.

If I'm considering following you on a vote change, I think it is fair to ask you to explain your thought process and have a conversation about it. But it never got to that point because you did not cast a vote and didn't continue what was intended to be a conversation rather than just me posting on the topic.

We don't have as much time to finally get on the same page this game like we did the last time we found ourselves butting heads - the Resident Evil game. If I didn't already trust you as a villager because of the PM I would trust you more because your wolf MO with me has never been stubborn (like your earlier post suggested) but more of an info facilitator. So I'll make the assumption that we are on the same side again here for at least one more day. If you don't believe we're on the same side then you should vote for me and I'll do what I can to keep the group from following down a bad path.

[path12]

I'm going to work with the assumption that one of our two wolves would have voted for a leading candidate yesterday. I think it is easier to blend in there than on an isolated candidate, all things being equal.


I don't think your theory is valid with a 3-3 sort of vote. Day 1 as a wolf I'd look to put a single somewhere else. I'm surprised you feel differently.

BTW, to Alan's post above about your 'defense' of KWhit. I don't see it at all in the first post he quoted, but I do understand his suspicion of the other one. You, ntndeacon and DT are probably my top three suspects right now. DT's a hunch as I stated before, ntn is playing the 'throw names out there' game and I just explained my current feeling about you....

[path12]

dola

although that'd be a nice excuse to hide your vote if you are a wolf path

It sure would. Alas, I'm just a villager though.

[SnDvls]

NTN was as well. There was no sign of SnDvls.

correct I wasn't on or here as my post after my DT vote post indicates

[KWhit]

I agree entirely with this. The case against KWhit is thinner than water, but I don't see anything else at all out there.

I am genuinely baffled by the people that are voting for me. My actions indicate a high probability of actually being a villager - however you want to spell it!

Oh well. It sucks that this is all surrounding the PM crap that Alan posted.

I tried to not make an issue of it which is why I voted Molly without giving a reason. Trying to do that seems to have backfired, and now I'm on the block.

My logic was perfect as far as MM was concerned (and I was proven to be correct). I cannot understand how that makes me suspicious.

[hoopsguy]

I don't think your theory is valid with a 3-3 sort of vote. Day 1 as a wolf I'd look to put a single somewhere else. I'm surprised you feel differently.

BTW, to Alan's post above about your 'defense' of KWhit. I don't see it at all in the first post he quoted, but I do understand his suspicion of the other one. You, ntndeacon and DT are probably my top three suspects right now. DT's a hunch as I stated before, ntn is playing the 'throw names out there' game and I just explained my current feeling about you....

3-3 out of 11 votes, when both of the leading votegetters are not wolves? I feel pretty strongly about the idea that a wolf would be on one of the two candidates. I'm surprised you feel differently.

[hoopsguy]

I would go as far as to say I think there is a better chance that both wolves are in that list than no wolves are on that list, based upon what I perceive to be standard wolf voting patterns.

[DaddyTorgo]

well you're wrong about me hoops. might want to get your wolf-dar checked.

[DaddyTorgo]

well you're wrong about me path. might want to get your wolf-dar checked.

[SnDvls]

I'm tending to follow Alan's line of thinking a lot more than yours here hoops. Also you blantly missed my point/post about not being on over the weekend.
With that said I still don't have any other reason to vote you. I'd stick with my day one vote, but it was random with out reason or merit and would put a 2nd vote on someone who probally doesn't deserve it so I'll hold out until more info comes up.

[DaddyTorgo]

triple-dola

clearly the later of the 2 posts is what i meant to actually say. dunno how hoops' name got in there. guess i'm tired

[hoopsguy]

Was trying to figure out where you were coming from on that one, DT. Since I had questioned your logic in Post #134 I didn't think I had made one mention of you as a wolf.

In terms of gut play at the moment, I've got you a little more likely wolf than the average villager, but I don't think it is a good percentage play relative to the voting patterns strategy that I'm reviewing.

Not going to vote for today - Alan T
Leaning towards trust - none
Middle - Peregrine, SnDvls, NTN
Leaning towards distrust - Daddy T
Conflicted - KWhit
Distrust - Path, Cronin

KWhit - maybe I am guilty of inadvertantly enabling him last night, but his actions struck with my knee-jerk reaction when I saw Molly's post last night.

[hoopsguy]

I'm tending to follow Alan's line of thinking a lot more than yours here hoops. Also you blantly missed my point/post about not being on over the weekend.
With that said I still don't have any other reason to vote you. I'd stick with my day one vote, but it was random with out reason or merit and would put a 2nd vote on someone who probally doesn't deserve it so I'll hold out until more info comes up.

I didn't miss it, but you dropped a placeholder and weren't back. So how is that supposed to register as a better constructed vote than KWhit's vote? That was my point last night, although I clearly didn't do a good job of spelling it out. In your post above you clearly acknowledge that it was random and without merit.

If you guys insist on creating some kind of linkage between me and KWhit, so be it. I have no idea what team he is on, but I'm pretty much done arguing the point. I've explained my state of mind as thoroughly as I know how.

[path12]

3-3 out of 11 votes, when both of the leading votegetters are not wolves? I feel pretty strongly about the idea that a wolf would be on one of the two candidates. I'm surprised you feel differently.

It looks as if we have a difference of opinion then. Let's try this:

UNVOTE DADDYTORGO
VOTE HOOPSGUY

If you want to vote me go ahead, I've got no role and am happy to be sacrificed. We can learn something from putting you on the block too though.

[MollyMurphy]

can we please start letting MM live past D1/N1. I'm starting to get really sad for her...cut her a damm break.

Sorry I won't be able to finish the game with you guys...good luck.

Thanks for the concern DT, but I have never been voted off Day 1 or Night 1. In fact, I won my first game and lasted quite a while in my second. Shear luck (not skill) on both accounts, but MM has a lot of fight in her. I'll get the hang of this game eventually. It was a fun day...thanks.

[DaddyTorgo]

Sorry I won't be able to finish the game with you guys...good luck.

Thanks for the concern DT, but I have never been voted off Day 1 or Night 1. In fact, I won my first game and lasted quite a while in my second. Shear luck (not skill) on both accounts, but MM has a lot of fight in her. I'll get the hang of this game eventually. It was a fun day...thanks.

Lathum did say you were quite umm...feisty? :D

[SnDvls]

I didn't miss it, but you dropped a placeholder and weren't back. So how is that supposed to register as a better constructed vote than KWhit's vote? That was my point last night, although I clearly didn't do a good job of spelling it out. In your post above you clearly acknowledge that it was random and without merit.

If you guys insist on creating some kind of linkage between me and KWhit, so be it. I have no idea what team he is on, but I'm pretty much done arguing the point. I've explained my state of mind as thoroughly as I know how.

I clearly said random reread it again.

[DaddyTorgo]

that's okay hoops...you seem to always have me slightly more wolfish and towards distrust when i'm a villager and it's yet to really come back to bite me, so i'm slightly reassured by that.

[DaddyTorgo]

good luck to who MM? The wolves who you wanted to win with? Or us innocent travelers?

[SnDvls]

dola -
not trying to make a linke either Hoops, just wanted to put a point of clarification on the argument as it related to me.

[st.cronin]

I would go as far as to say I think there is a better chance that both wolves are in that list than no wolves are on that list, based upon what I perceive to be standard wolf voting patterns.

I don't know that there is a standard wolf voting pattern on day 1, any more than there is a standard villager voting pattern on day 1.

[st.cronin]

Only 3 votes so far:

2 - KWhit - stcronin (117), Peregrine (128)
1 - hoopsguy - path12 (175)

[st.cronin]

If KWhit turns up a wolf, I think hoopsguy is likely cleared based on his posts yesterday. I see the opposite of linkage. Hoops doesn't defend a fellow wolf that way, at least not in my experience. Maybe in a small game like this he would, but I doubt it.

[DaddyTorgo]

well i'm around from now till lynch. I likely won't vote till after dinner.

[SnDvls]

gonna vote now to force some people to commit

vote hoopsguy

I'll try to be back on before lynch.

[Alan T]

Where did I say I cared how it looked? If I cared how it looked, wouldn't I have just thrown my vote away on kwhit and left it at that? Its a day 1 vote. Show me where I said that i cared how anyone else perceived my vote at all :)

Cronin, you like proving me wrong. I'm still waiting for a reply to this :)

[hoopsguy]

It looks as if we have a difference of opinion then. Let's try this:

UNVOTE DADDYTORGO
VOTE HOOPSGUY

If you want to vote me go ahead, I've got no role and am happy to be sacrificed. We can learn something from putting you on the block too though.

Just wondering if you see the irony of your vote here, as you say we have a difference of opinion and yet you are voting for someone who voted for one of the two dead people - the majority that I said contains wolves.

I'm in a 2-2 vote at this point, but I would prefer not to have to vote defensively. If the vote is not a "save myself" vote it is going to be headed towards either Path or Cronin today.

[hoopsguy]

So the votes for me are to:
1. Disagree with my point, but vote in accordance with my point (Path12)
2. Force a tie (SnDvls)

O-kay. I get that yesterday's top vote getters being dead is making today tough but I feel like I'm getting votes on account of arguing about Alan's (wrong) theory rather than sitting back and hoping it goes away.

[Peregrine]

Well I'm heading to bed, I won't be back before the lynch, so let's see if we can get an actual wolf this time? I'm feeling fairly good about my Kwhit vote, and a bit uncertain about the hoopsguy vote.

[hoopsguy]

OK, I know the safe play is to vote for KWhit and try to stay alive for another day. Maybe I'll fall back to that in a couple of hours if people insist on pushing my candidacy. The next safe plan is to vote for Path, who already has put his vote on me. But I'm suspicious that Cronin is playing the "knowing bad guy" role with his comments on me and KWhit. I've seen him do this in one other game when I was a good guy under suspicion (Big City) and I've talked myself into believing he is repeating an old trick. So even though this could end up burying me with another vote later I'll go with the guy I think is most likely to be a wolf.

VOTE ST.CRONIN

[hoopsguy]

2 - KWhit - stcronin (117), Peregrine (128)
2 - hoopsguy - path12 (175), SnDvls (186)
1 - St.Cronin - hoopsguy (191)

[ntndeacon]

You posted that after Hoops had posted defending kwhit. So I had assumed you were referring to that in your post.

you are right that my comment did come after hoops discussion of Kwhit. But he did not give any indication of a candidate to change to or away from in my mind. I am not sure how serious you were about the changing to Kwhit idea. even if you read into that post that iwould follow hoops, your post is not that far removed that it could have given you at least a hint that iwould join you in your vote. However all it got was swept over.

[hoopsguy]

I also want to make sure I'm understanding just how people think I might play as a wolf:

1.) Cast a defense of another player for no apparent reason (KWhit)
2.) Call for the seer to scan MM, then kill MM that night
3.) Argue with over half the players in the game on Day 2

I know it has been awhile since I had a wolf role on Day 1, but I like to think I would handle my business just a little bit better than this. My usual MO as a wolf is less confrontational, less gut-based, and more analytical while pointing in the wrong direction. I don't think I've done any of those things here - I think my play just screams villager, but obviously I'm the only one with complete information (except a possible seer) on this point.

[st.cronin]

Cronin, you like proving me wrong. I'm still waiting for a reply to this :)

Its how I'm interpreting this sentiment:

I am guessing I am stuck with villager vs villager to choose from here. The person I want to vote for is kwhit, but doing so is the same as voting molly at this point.

My feeling is, a villager votes for who he wants to vote for. I don't feel particularly strongly about this, it just seemed like a curious route to take.

[st.cronin]

I also want to make sure I'm understanding just how people think I might play as a wolf:

1.) Cast a defense of another player for no apparent reason (KWhit)
2.) Call for the seer to scan MM, then kill MM that night
3.) Argue with over half the players in the game on Day 2

I know it has been awhile since I had a wolf role on Day 1, but I like to think I would handle my business just a little bit better than this. My usual MO as a wolf is less confrontational, less gut-based, and more analytical while pointing in the wrong direction. I don't think I've done any of those things here - I think my play just screams villager, but obviously I'm the only one with complete information (except a possible seer) on this point.

I don't have any particular feeling on your wolfiness, I just don't see a linkage. The best linkage I see is between Alan T and KWhit - Alan T said yesterday he wanted to vote for KWhit, but existential concerns prevented it. Today he has apparently changed his mind, for reasons which are opaque to me..

[Alan T]

you are right that my comment did come after hoops discussion of Kwhit. But he did not give any indication of a candidate to change to or away from in my mind. I am not sure how serious you were about the changing to Kwhit idea. even if you read into that post that iwould follow hoops, your post is not that far removed that it could have given you at least a hint that iwould join you in your vote. However all it got was swept over.

I guess I should go back and check timestamps then. Perhaps its just a case of the groups of posts I read together. I made my comments and you hadnt posted by the time I left for a bit. when I came back later, in my head I read it with Hoops's comments. I'll have to see if you actually did post it close to my conversation, and I just messed it up due to when I read it.

Its how I'm interpreting this sentiment:



My feeling is, a villager votes for who he wants to vote for. I don't feel particularly strongly about this, it just seemed like a curious route to take.

So you are using one sentence that doesnt even mention me caring what everyone else thinks and completely ignore the many many posts I made explaining why at the time I didnt want to vote either them, nor after the fact why I didnt want to vote either of them?

This is really strange for you considering you have always said no lynch is better than lynching a villager on day 1. Or maybe its just a convienant arguement for you to try to make right now :) Either way, you have taken one sentence and chosen to leave out the explanation given with it and instead put your own reasoning. :)

[Alan T]

I don't have any particular feeling on your wolfiness, I just don't see a linkage. The best linkage I see is between Alan T and KWhit - Alan T said yesterday he wanted to vote for KWhit, but existential concerns prevented it. Today he has apparently changed his mind, for reasons which are opaque to me..

If you want me to be a bit less opaque, its because coming in this morning I was feeling kwhit + hoops = the two wolves. Now I feel its you + hoops. So lost my desire to vote for kwhit

[st.cronin]

I guess I should go back and check timestamps then. Perhaps its just a case of the groups of posts I read together. I made my comments and you hadnt posted by the time I left for a bit. when I came back later, in my head I read it with Hoops's comments. I'll have to see if you actually did post it close to my conversation, and I just messed it up due to when I read it.



So you are using one sentence that doesnt even mention me caring what everyone else thinks and completely ignore the many many posts I made explaining why at the time I didnt want to vote either them, nor after the fact why I didnt want to vote either of them?

This is really strange for you considering you have always said no lynch is better than lynching a villager on day 1. Or maybe its just a convienant arguement for you to try to make right now :) Either way, you have taken one sentence and chosen to leave out the explanation given with it and instead put your own reasoning. :)

Were you arguing for a no-lynch? If so, I missed it. My analysis is primarily based on the fact that you didn't vote, not what you said.

[st.cronin]

If you want me to be a bit less opaque, its because coming in this morning I was feeling kwhit + hoops = the two wolves. Now I feel its you + hoops. So lost my desire to vote for kwhit

Based on what? It would be nice if people in this game started actually giving reasons. Looking at you and hoops right now.

[ntndeacon]

It wouldn't surprise me at all if the wolves were KWhit and either ntndeacon or Alan T. I think as a villager you have to use your vote, rather than worry about how it makes you look after the fact. Both of them seem to have been worried about how it would look.

I don't see how what Idid in my day one voting leads you to the assumption that iwas worried how it looks. More often than not, I eskew voting for the favorites on day 1 as I assume we have a villager on villager thing.

[Alan T]

Based on what? It would be nice if people in this game started actually giving reasons. Looking at you and hoops right now.

Why give you reasons? You chose to not look at my reasons yesterday. You going to start today? :)

[st.cronin]

Why give you reasons? You chose to not look at my reasons yesterday. You going to start today? :)

It depends on the reasons you give. If they merit consideration, I will consider them.

[Alan T]

It depends on the reasons you give. If they merit consideration, I will consider them.


I am a little puzzled to what evidence I could possibly give you to make you convinced that you and Hoops are our two wolves. I'll have to think about this for a bit and get back to you on that!


All seriousness, all I have is hunches. Im just as likely to lead everyone down the wrong road as I am to get lucky and be correct. I have found alot of how Hoops played yesterday and to some extent today inconsistant with what I feel he normally does. I am baffled about Cronin's play and selectively choosing arguements today. Then I see them trying to distance from each other for damage control.

Maybe I'm just paranoid.


Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean you aren't out to get me though.

[hoopsguy]

I'm glad that Peregrine went to bed for the evening. At least there was one person who made it through the day without idle speculation about me as a wolf.

Seriously, a lot of you are being sold a bill of goods on me as a wolf. And I don't understand why.

Alan, what caused the change of heart on KWhit today? And why do you still have me on the hot list for "defending" him when you are now casting yourself in the same light today?

[hoopsguy]

OOG: Alan, it is nice that you have shed your PMS persona from the last couple of games, but you are weirding me out with the constant smileys :)

[st.cronin]

I am a little puzzled to what evidence I could possibly give you to make you convinced that you and Hoops are our two wolves. I'll have to think about this for a bit and get back to you on that!


All seriousness, all I have is hunches. Im just as likely to lead everyone down the wrong road as I am to get lucky and be correct. I have found alot of how Hoops played yesterday and to some extent today inconsistant with what I feel he normally does. I am baffled about Cronin's play and selectively choosing arguements today. Then I see them trying to distance from each other for damage control.

Maybe I'm just paranoid.


Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean you aren't out to get me though.

If you can point to one game where you were not baffled by my play, I'd be pretty surprised. In this game I voted on day 1 for Barkeep, because he voted for me for an innocuous comment. Today I've voted for KWhit, YOUR candidate from yesterday. I'm not sure what baffles you, there, any more than anything else that anybody has said or done.

Hoopsguy seems fine to me, I've seen nothing to get alarmed about. I disagree with some of his points, but he doesn't strike me as particularly sinister.

I would rather not get lynched, but I will not be around at deadline. Not that I would have anything to reveal, or a case to make.

[Alan T]

I'm glad that Peregrine went to bed for the evening. At least there was one person who made it through the day without idle speculation about me as a wolf.

Seriously, a lot of you are being sold a bill of goods on me as a wolf. And I don't understand why.

Alan, what caused the change of heart on KWhit today? And why do you still have me on the hot list for "defending" him when you are now casting yourself in the same light today?

I am not giving reasons for why I think he is innocent like you did yesterday. I'm not trying to mount his defense. I am clearly saying i have no clue if he is good or bad. And Im not selling any bill of goods to anyone. Check my last post where I very clearly state its idle speculation. Everyone should decide their vote on their own. I havent even voted yet. Im still not sure where I am going with my vote.

Maybe I'll go vote for ntndeacon instead.

[Alan T]

OOG: Alan, it is nice that you have shed your PMS persona from the last couple of games, but you are weirding me out with the constant smileys :)

Im a happy guy! I smile because I am happy! :)

Also tonight is like my favorite tv night of the week. House -> Heroes on tv. Only Tuesday comes close with House -> Law and Order

[hoopsguy]

What has not been good TV so far tonight:

Pistons 37, Bulls 18. Ugh.

[ntndeacon]

What has not been good TV so far tonight:

Pistons 37, Bulls 18. Ugh.

how could that be good tv any night. NBA ugh!

[Alan T]

Lathum is tonight's deadline 10:30 again like last night?

[ntndeacon]

All right. This is more a vote for hoops' innocene than any other reason. I think he is more likely a villager than Kwhit. So...
Vote KWhit

[hoopsguy]

how could that be good tv any night. NBA ugh!

Time to argue with another person at the hotel ... you have seen my name, right? Although college is my preference, it is like choosing between hot blondes and redheads.

[ntndeacon]

Oh college basketball rocks. It is just the pro game I dont like

[hoopsguy]

OK, I'm probably out until deadline. Hope to come back to a good lynch, wherever people decide to take it. Lots of votes still outstanding.

[DaddyTorgo]

and i'm around

[DaddyTorgo]

what the hell is going on!

[DaddyTorgo]

hi kwit...what are your thoughts? i'm trying to decide furiously here...and I know you+me+alan are outstanding. And that's a sizeable block. So i'm curious to discuss with you guys

[KWhit]

I really have no idea why people are voting for me.

Vote St.cronin.

His logic about coming after me makes no sense.

[Alan T]

3 kwhit, 2 hoops, 2 st.cronin right now? Or am I wrong?

[DaddyTorgo]

VOTE ST. CRONIN

Alan? The ball is in your court yet again.

[DaddyTorgo]

hmmm...alan was just here and then left without voting.

[Alan T]

hmmm...alan was just here and then left without voting.

Just because Im not constantly hitting F5 means I left. I asked a question and no one answered, so Im looking back and counting it up

[Alan T]

So its 3 - Kwhit , 3 St.cronin, 2 Hoopsguy with Kwhit having the longest standing vote thus tie breaker kills him right now. So Kwhit, since you are here, if I wanted to kill hoops would you switch your vote to him?

[Alan T]

Lets see how this plays out. Since Kwhit is still here, I'll toss it back in his court.

Vote Hoopsguy

So if i counted right its 3 hoops, 3 st.cronin and 3 kwhit.

[DaddyTorgo]

okie doke alan. I wasn't trying to rip on you or anything or suggest anything. Just wondering where you went off to.

[hoopsguy]

And back - thought I was going to miss deadline by a half hour instead of being back a half hour early.

DaddyTorgo, why do you know that you + Alan + KWhit equals a good block? I'm baffled by this - there seems to be an awful lot of knowledge being passed around on Day 2 with just one seer in the game. And I don't think you could have a double trust as the seer. So - what gives?

KWhit and Alan - do you guys have any reason to trust DaddyT back? If I wasn't going after the Day 1 voting pattern theory I think he would have gotten my vote today.

[DaddyTorgo]

I don't KNOW that they equal a good block. I meant a "good-sized" block.

and you'll note that my vote didn't end up on you hoops.

[hoopsguy]

Alan, you are not controlling the vote with a vote on me. KWhit switches off of Cronin, I follow suit, KWhit still has the longest held vote. So he can't save himself unless other people are moving votes.

I'm not looking to kill KWhit tonight - I've got my vote where I think it will net a wolf. But if you want me dead you are going to have to convince someone besides KWhit to switch.

I wouldn't spell this out if I was a wolf - I would just switch my vote at the last second. Seriously, stop being dumb about this and re-evaluate your assumptions; they are flawed.

[DaddyTorgo]

although I thank you and path for the respect you show my potential wolfishness hoops

[Alan T]

Alan, you are not controlling the vote with a vote on me. KWhit switches off of Cronin, I follow suit, KWhit still has the longest held vote. So he can't save himself unless other people are moving votes.

I'm not looking to kill KWhit tonight - I've got my vote where I think it will net a wolf. But if you want me dead you are going to have to convince someone besides KWhit to switch.

I wouldn't spell this out if I was a wolf - I would just switch my vote at the last second. Seriously, stop being dumb about this and re-evaluate your assumptions; they are flawed.

Doesnt matter anyways, kwhit left without doing anything.

[hoopsguy]

I don't KNOW that they equal a good block. I meant a "good-sized" block.

and you'll note that my vote didn't end up on you hoops.

Nope, it did not. But you keep making comments that I don't understand. I called one out earlier and I'm doing the same here.

But why would you have expected to have a voting block with Alan and KWhit - did I miss something contextually in your post while I was downstairs watching TV? Guys in the room at the time who had not voted? I don't want it to be suggested I'm making up outs for you here :rolleyes: just trying to figure out your play.

[KWhit]

I'm back now.

[DaddyTorgo]

yes. You did miss something. alan+kwit and I had not voted, and I noticed kwit was in the room. Just trying to get some discussion, as with 3 votes (whether they were good or bad) we could have locked something down or swayed something

[KWhit]

But why would you have expected to have a voting block with Alan and KWhit

I'm assuming it's a PM thing. But I have no inside knowledge one way or the other on his play.

[KWhit]

yes. You did miss something. alan+kwit and I had not voted, and I noticed kwit was in the room. Just trying to get some discussion, as with 3 votes (whether they were good or bad) we could have locked something down or swayed something

Or maybe I was wrong.

:)

[DaddyTorgo]

lol. sorry...guess i'm falling into not spelling things out enough. I'll try to be more clear.

[KWhit]

Alan, you are not controlling the vote with a vote on me. KWhit switches off of Cronin, I follow suit, KWhit still has the longest held vote. So he can't save himself unless other people are moving votes.

I'm not looking to kill KWhit tonight - I've got my vote where I think it will net a wolf. But if you want me dead you are going to have to convince someone besides KWhit to switch.

I wouldn't spell this out if I was a wolf - I would just switch my vote at the last second. Seriously, stop being dumb about this and re-evaluate your assumptions; they are flawed.


That's right. Unless someone moves their vote to st.cronin, I die tonight. Any takers?

[KWhit]

DT, you around?

[DaddyTorgo]

yes i'm here.

[KWhit]

Alan,

Any chance of you moving your vote to st.cronin?

[KWhit]

Alan needs to switch to st.cronin or DT (and me) needs to switch to hoopsguy or I'm getting lynched tonight.

[KWhit]

And I don't really want to get lynched.

[hoopsguy]

3 - KWhit - stcronin (117), Peregrine (128), NTN (213)
3 - hoopsguy - path12 (175), SnDvls (186), Alan T (226)
3 - St.Cronin - hoopsguy (191), KWhit (220), DaddyT (222)

Deadline coming. Based on the people who are around last night Alan is the person who could potentially save KWhit. I know I technically could as well but I'm not going to vote for a "think he is villager" against myself who I 100% know to be villager.
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[Alan T]

And I don't really want to get lynched.


DT seemed to suggest you and he made a good voting block. Maybe he still believes that enough to change his vote with you. Unless he was just full of hot air :)

[KWhit]

I don't have any real reason to think hoops is a wolf, but I have no real trust in him either.

Are you open to moving your vote to hoops, DT?

[DaddyTorgo]

over you kwit? I just don't know. I don't have any particular massive wolfish-vibe off either of the two of you.

[DaddyTorgo]

alan, stop misinterperting what I said...i was just saying that kwit+you+me were a large voting block, not that any of us were communicating or anything.

[KWhit]

Ugh. Looks like I might be toast.