July console sales numbers......

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Updated numbers for July 07. Note the source is vgchartz.com, so there will be some variance from these numbers compared to what comes out on the NPD numbers......

http://vgchartz.com/news/news.php?id=471

[Bee]

The issue has only been adressed with the Elite units currently on the market. It now has a bigger heat sink. The Core and Premium units currently in stock still have the old defective heat sinks. It's likely that they are now producing Core and Premium units with a better heat sink, but we won't see those for awhile until they sell the current stock, so it's impossible to know until that point. Right now, the Elite unit is the only unit on the shelves that has been fixed. The newer Elite units also have been known to get the RROD error, but it has been at a much lower level than the old versions.

Microsoft's silence doesn't mean the problem isn't known. The heat problems in the console have been known to be the issue for quite some time. MS just refuses to take the PR hit to admit it.


It might be a heat issue, but there are ways other than replacing a heat sink to address heat issues (at least in PCs and I assume the same would be the case for a console). So what I'm saying is that it's not really possible to know if MS did something else to address the heat issue based on the fact they didn't replace the heat sink.

I'm not saying they did address the issue, just that I don't think the fact that the heat sink is the same is really proof they didn't.

[Bee]

Updated numbers for July 07. Note the source is vgchartz.com, so there will be some variance from these numbers compared to what comes out on the NPD numbers......

http://vgchartz.com/news/news.php?id=471

Aren't those the same numbers as the one's you posted on Friday? I'm not seeing any difference anyway.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

It might be a heat issue, but there are ways other than replacing a heat sink to address heat issues (at least in PCs and I assume the same would be the case for a console). So what I'm saying is that it's not really possible to know if MS did something else to address the heat issue based on the fact they didn't replace the heat sink.

I'm not saying they did address the issue, just that I don't think the fact that the heat sink is the same is really proof they didn't.

I'm not sure what else could be done to alleviate the heat problem and make a major difference. But your point is certainly valid. There may be another way to do it outside of those two main problem areas that could resolve the problem.

I think the engineer's point is that the heat issue certainly wasn't helped by a poorly designed heat sink and a slower than needed fan.

[Bee]

I'm not sure what else could be done to alleviate the heat problem and make a major difference. But your point is certainly valid. There may be another way to do it outside of those two main problem areas that could resolve the problem.

I think the engineer's point is that the heat issue certainly wasn't helped by a poorly designed heat sink and a slower than needed fan.

For the record, my biggest problem was their methodology. All they did was test the old one and say "Hey this thing gets hot", then opened up the repaired one and said "Hey this one looks the same as the old one, so it probably gets hot too".

They might be completely right with their conclusions, but they certainly didn't prove anything and honestly, I think it looks suspect that they didn't test the repaired unit and report those numbers at the very minimum.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

For the record, my biggest problem was their methodology. All they did was test the old one and say "Hey this thing gets hot", then opened up the repaired one and said "Hey this one looks the same as the old one, so it probably gets hot too".

They might be completely right with their conclusions, but they certainly didn't prove anything and honestly, I think it looks suspect that they didn't test the repaired unit and report those numbers at the very minimum.

Good point. Totally agree with that.

[albionmoonlight]

For the record, my biggest problem was their methodology. All they did was test the old one and say "Hey this thing gets hot", then opened up the repaired one and said "Hey this one looks the same as the old one, so it probably gets hot too".

They might be completely right with their conclusions, but they certainly didn't prove anything and honestly, I think it looks suspect that they didn't test the repaired unit and report those numbers at the very minimum.

Yeah. That article had a clear enough bias that I am thinking that the lack of testing of the repaired box does not represent a mistaken omission.

[Big Fo]

After all these months I'll finally bite. What is this boards' big interest with monthly sales numbers for console games?

Many people on the board are interested in video games. To most, it does not make economic sense to buy every console that comes out. People want the consoles that they own to sell well because it increases the chances of more good games coming out on the one or two they have purchased. In theory, these good games increase the console sales, which bring more good games, etc.

Sales -> Games -> Sales -> Games

Also, a lot of people just find the numbers interesting in the same way other people like knowing how much certain movies grossed and there's probably other examples.

The fanboy arguments that erupt due to the importance (to some) of sales figures and strange personal attachments to particular companies can also be rather humorous. Spin, damage control, outrageous bias, it's all here and often entertaining to read.

Month after month there is always something different to analyze. July will have the PS3 price drop, August might have an XBox360 price drop and we'll see how Madden does on various platforms, September will have the Halo boost and by then we'll know what kind of legs the PS3 might have at $500, and on and on...

[MJ4H]

I am happy to play the part of Nintendo fan-boy, incidentally.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Pretty nice deal available that Bill Harris posted.......60 GB PS3 for $365 shipped.....

http://ps3mods.blogspot.com/2007/08/60gb-ps3-for-349.html

[SackAttack]

Microsoft Corp. today kicked off the greatest holiday lineup in video game history by announcing it will reduce the estimated retail price (ERP) of Xbox 360™ by $50 (U.S.) beginning Aug. 8. Soon to follow, Electronic Arts Inc. (EA) will release its blockbuster video game title “Madden NFL 08” on Aug. 14. “Madden NFL Football,” one of the most important mass-appeal franchises in video games, was the top-selling game of 2006 and is the top-selling franchise of the past 10 years. Only Xbox 360 offers a console for all interests and budgets.

“The fact that we have been able to keep our launch price longer than any other console while retaining our leadership position demonstrates that consumers believe in the value of Xbox 360,” said Mitch Koch, corporate vice president, Global Retail Sales and Marketing Group, Entertainment and Devices Division at Microsoft. “On the eve of the best holiday games lineup ever and the launch of ‘Madden NFL 08,’ there has never been a better time to jump into Xbox 360.”

Xbox 360 will enhance the value of its entire family of consoles beginning on Aug. 8. At a new ERP of $349.99 (U.S.), Xbox 360 offers an unsurpassed experience right out of the box with a 20GB hard drive, wireless controller, Xbox 360 headset, and more. For those looking for the ultimate value and the freedom to customize their console as they see fit, Xbox 360 Core System now has an ERP of $279.99 (U.S.). Xbox 360 Core System provides everything needed to start gaming while giving consumers the ability to add new features and accessories they want. Dressed in black and equipped with a 120GB hard drive, Xbox 360 Elite will be priced at an ERP of $449.99 (U.S.) for those who want the premium games and entertainment experience. In anticipation of this year’s largest blockbuster game launch, the Xbox 360 Halo® 3 Special Edition Console will hit store shelves in September with an ERP of $399.99 (U.S.). Featuring an authentic Spartan green-and-gold finish, this console will include a matching Xbox 360 Wireless Controller, Xbox 360 20GB hard drive, Xbox 360 Headset, an Xbox 360 Play and Charge Kit, and more.

Starts Wednesday, for anybody who cares.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

July console sales numbers in Japan. Wii numbers remain steady. PS3 has 200% sales surge due to Minna no Golf 5 release........

Wii.........396,752
PS3.........91,987
360.........17,970

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

The price cuts SackAttack mentioned aren't all that good overall. I'm not sure they're enough to boost major interest.

The most interesting part of that sales release was that they're creating a Halo 3 bundle. That should help the 360 sales more than any of the price cuts. With those bundles being packaged recently, I wonder if they are the old console overstock that they're trying to move out the door or if those are newly designed consoles. Who knows if we'll ever know given MS's relative silence on the issue.

[Big Fo]

MS should have gone for the throat with $299 for the basic 20GB 360. That said, I have no idea how much these things cost them to make or when their new, less broken versions are coming out, and how much those affect the cost.

I bet Nintendo beats their "longest passage of time before price drop" record next year.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Looks like this morning's Wii update will render modded Wii's useless. But at least Nintendo was nice enough to tell the user in advance.......

http://www.engadget.com/2007/08/07/wii-update-provides-minor-menu-changes-could-brick-modded-conso/

[wade moore]

I'm sure there will be an outcry from people who modded their console - another case of people blaming someone else for their illegal activity.

[Eaglesfan27]

Bioshock which comes out in 2 weeks on the 360 is getting rave reviews. Several outlets are calling it the best 360 game to date and are giving it perfect scores. Here is a link to one of several of previews/reviews:

http://www.gamer411.com/forum/2076/1/19333/Bioshock_Reviews_start_to_come_in.html

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Bioshock which comes out in 2 weeks on the 360 is getting rave reviews. Several outlets are calling it the best 360 game to date and are giving it perfect scores. Here is a link to one of several of previews/reviews:

http://www.gamer411.com/forum/2076/1/19333/Bioshock_Reviews_start_to_come_in.html

Is that one shipping today or next week?

[spleen1015]

It comes out on 8/21.

[MikeVic]

Is that one shipping today or next week?

The short, two-line post you quoted has that answer...

edit: ;)

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

It comes out on 8/21.

Review lead times are getting ridiculous. You wonder how much they rush to be the very first site to review the game at the cost of not fully exploring all of the features of the game. Lair was a similar situation in that it was reviewed 2 weeks before the release date, only to find that it was delayed.

I'm certainly not implying in any way that the early Bioshock scores aren't accurate. I just don't know why sites can't hold off a bit and explore the game more.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

The short, two-line post you quoted has that answer...

edit: ;)

It's alright. You can call me an idiot. No need to beat around the bush. :)

[wade moore]

Review lead times are getting ridiculous. You wonder how much they rush to be the very first site to review the game at the cost of not fully exploring all of the features of the game. Lair was a similar situation in that it was reviewed 2 weeks before the release date, only to find that it was delayed.

I'm certainly not implying in any way that the early Bioshock scores aren't accurate. I just don't know why sites can't hold off a bit and explore the game more.

I know this was probably at least somewhat rhetorical - but...

Which site are the masses going to go to? The site that has the review 5 days before, or the one that has it 10 days before?

[MikeVic]

I agree with the fact that I hate when review sites seem to rush through a game. I would like if they played it more at a normal pace if they review the game this early. So that the review comes out closer to the release date.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

I agree with the fact that I hate when review sites seem to rush through a game. I would like if they played it more at a normal pace if they review the game this early. So that the review comes out closer to the release date.

I know there are a few sites that release their reviews on the day of release or even later in some cases just to make sure their review is thorough. But that seems to be a small number of sites overall.

[spleen1015]

I think it is the smaller sites releasing reviews early. Gamespot doesn't post their reviews before the game gets released. For many games, their review gets posted well after release.

[SackAttack]

It's tough for smaller sites to do it 'early' a lot of the time. I don't say that it's impossible, but it is difficult.

Sites that get retail builds won't USUALLY get them well in advance, unless they're ready well in advance and just aren't shipping until whenever (as is the case for us and Jeanne d'Arc).

Sites that have debug kits, they'll get their review builds maybe up to a month early, but they're also usually embargoed until a certain date from posting said reviews.

[SackAttack]

The price cuts SackAttack mentioned aren't all that good overall. I'm not sure they're enough to boost major interest.

The most interesting part of that sales release was that they're creating a Halo 3 bundle. That should help the 360 sales more than any of the price cuts. With those bundles being packaged recently, I wonder if they are the old console overstock that they're trying to move out the door or if those are newly designed consoles. Who knows if we'll ever know given MS's relative silence on the issue.

I think the idea is mostly "nobody cares about the Core, and the Elite draws enough interest at $479 that coming down to $449 is lip service more than anything else."

I think any interest in these price cuts from a sales perspective is going to come from the Premium, honestly.

And, no, not terribly exciting. But. Best Buy has the Top Spin Premium bundles in stock; I don't know offhand if they're going to benefit from the price reduction. If they do, for the $399 you would've paid for a Premium last week, you can go home with a Premium, a two-player game, and an extra controller. It's an improvement.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Comment from Bill Harris regarding the GTA IV delay. He believes that the delay was because neither version was ready and that Michael Pachter's assertion that the 360 was held back due to some agreement with Sony when the only exclusive agreement was with MS is rubbish at best.......

http://dubiousquality.blogspot.com/2007/08/grand-theft-auto-iv-delay.html

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Target and Best Buy employees are both giving out pictures that show that the stores will no longer carry the Core version of the Xbox 360......

http://www.joystiq.com/2007/08/07/rumor-target-done-with-xbox-360-core-model/

http://www.joystiq.com/2007/07/30/best-buy-done-with-xbox-360-core-model/

[vex]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20156739/

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Another pretty good sign that MS knows they have a big issue on their hands. Current rumor is that MS is creating a first party cooling unit to deal with the RROD overheating issues on the 360 system.

http://www.myarcadeplanet.com/story-400-Rumor-Microsoft-Making-their-Own-Cooling-Devices.html

[Eaglesfan27]

I don't know if this site can be believed, but it makes sense. Supposedly, the 65nm 360's will be in stores by August or September and the newer Cores and Premiums (which will no longer be called premiums) will come standard with HDMI just like the Elite. The redesign of the Core would seem to argue against the idea that the core SKU is being phased out. The 65nm chips should solve many of the problems that some units are experiencing with overheating. Here is the link:

http://arstechnica.com/journals/thumbs.ars/2007/08/07/360-cores-and-premiums-with-hdmi-an-inside-source-spills-the-beans

[stevew]

Is the Halo3 Xbox the new 65nm design? Or is the elite? I really am holding out for the one that's supposed to run cooler, and not RROD as badly.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

I don't know if this site can be believed, but it makes sense. Supposedly, the 65nm 360's will be in stores by August or September and the newer Cores and Premiums (which will no longer be called premiums) will come standard with HDMI just like the Elite. The redesign of the Core would seem to argue against the idea that the core SKU is being phased out. The 65nm chips should solve many of the problems that some units are experiencing with overheating. Here is the link:

http://arstechnica.com/journals/thumbs.ars/2007/08/07/360-cores-and-premiums-with-hdmi-an-inside-source-spills-the-beans

I'm pretty sure that the Target and Best Buy moves to stop carrying the Core system don't mean that the Core system is being phased out by any means. They likely just aren't selling at all. No one wants a console with no HDD in the system. With the way they did the price cuts, it makes the Core even less of an option. For another $70, you can get a unit with a HDD. The price cut structure will likely cause the Core sales number to sell less than the Premium. Sony had a similar situation with the 20 GB model. Everyone bought the 60 GB model at launch despite the higher price.

[Synovia]

Looks like this morning's Wii update will render modded Wii's useless. But at least Nintendo was nice enough to tell the user in advance.......

http://www.engadget.com/2007/08/07/wii-update-provides-minor-menu-changes-could-brick-modded-conso/



If you read the thing, it looks like all the mod chips still work. Looks like typical corporate disclaimer to me.

[MikeVic]

So... anyone else read Bill Harris' latest blog and find it kind of "too much information"-like when he talks about his 6-year-old son's penis washing?

[Arles]

If you read the thing, it looks like all the mod chips still work. Looks like typical corporate disclaimer to me.
Yep. Looks like this might have been a false alarm. While it's not recommended to "mod" your Wii, this was posted in the same story later yesterday afternoon:

"UPDATE: We've seen numerous reports of the new firmware not bricking modded Wii consoles, and that includes machines using Cyclowiz and WiiKey. If you're courageous enough, give it a go yourself and let us know how it turns out in comments."

[KWhit]

Why do people feel the need to mod their consoles?

[Eaglesfan27]

Why do people feel the need to mod their consoles?

The most common reason is to play import titles. Personally, I've never felt the need to mod my console.

[Eaglesfan27]

Is the Halo3 Xbox the new 65nm design? Or is the elite? I really am holding out for the one that's supposed to run cooler, and not RROD as badly.

If that site can be believed, the Halo3 360 will be the new 65nm design as will the core, premium, and elites in the next month or so.

[SackAttack]

I can confirm that the premium will have HDMI in the next month or so, but I don't know whether the 65nm chipset will be used.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Some article of interest. Play.com is reporting an announcement for a new MSG franchise is upcoming at Leipzig:

http://play.tm/story/12306

Joystiq is reporting that Rock Band bundles will contain wired guitars for the Xbox 360 and wireless guitars for the PS3.

http://www.joystiq.com/2007/08/07/rock-band-bundles-have-wireless-guitar-on-ps3-and-wired-on-xbox/

O.J. Simpson's royalties from the APF 2K8 game will go directly to the Goldman family.

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=27444

[Fidatelo]

So... anyone else read Bill Harris' latest blog and find it kind of "too much information"-like when he talks about his 6-year-old son's penis washing?

Yep, that was way over the line. That kid is going to want to beat his dads ass this fall when the other kids at school start yelling "PENIS ACTIVATED!" as he walks into the classroom.

[Deattribution]

Joystiq is reporting that Rock Band bundles will contain wired guitars for the Xbox 360 and wireless guitars for the PS3.



Looks like you can get a wireless guitar for the 360, it'll just be an additional $20 .

[albionmoonlight]

I can confirm that the premium will have HDMI in the next month or so, but I don't know whether the 65nm chipset will be used.

It would be smart, IMHO, if they linked the 65nm chipset to the HDMI. I think that there are some consumers who are holding back and waiting for the 65nm chipset. It would make it easier on them if there was an easy tell (the HDMI) to determine which models had the new chips and which ones didn't.

Or, I might be way way into this and forgetting the fact that 99% of the people out there have no idea what a RROD is or that heat is supposed to cause it, or that a 65nm chip is supposed to generate less heat.

[dawgfan]

I can confirm that the premium will have HDMI in the next month or so, but I don't know whether the 65nm chipset will be used.
Interesting. To me, the HDMI output was the primary reason to go with the Elite - the extra hard drive space is nice and all, but the HDMI was the deciding factor.

Well, that and it looks cooler in black...;)

[Deattribution]

I think a certain amount of damage is already done with potential customers concerning the RROD - who *really* wants to send off their 360? Nobody. What happens after your 3 year warranty is up? Is your system on it's last legs then? Some people still have working original ataris and NES', a console with the potential for only a 3-4 year shelf life is not all that enticing.

Sure, the new chips may fix the problem - and hopefully they do but there still will be alot of people who are skeptical or who never even understand that the new chips should fix the problem. This'll be even worse if reports start popping up that the system still has issues.

With that said, I'd think it would be more important to push that the new systems have HDMI, they have a new lower price, that Halo 3 is coming out soon and just quietly mention that the systems are running on improved hardware. Otherwise you have about 9 million customers who feel like they paid more for their system, don't have HDMI and potentially their system is just a brick in 3 years. Then also, all your new customers have to wonder if the problem is really fixed (especially say the first time a game freezes and it's software related, not hardware).

[Kodos]

I think most folks (the casual gamers who will come in when the price drops) are blissfully unaware that there is or ever was a problem with the 360.

[SackAttack]

Some article of interest. Play.com is reporting an announcement for a new MSG franchise is upcoming at Leipzig:

http://play.tm/story/12306

Joystiq is reporting that Rock Band bundles will contain wired guitars for the Xbox 360 and wireless guitars for the PS3.

http://www.joystiq.com/2007/08/07/rock-band-bundles-have-wireless-guitar-on-ps3-and-wired-on-xbox/

Hunch: PS3 uses bluetooth, Xbox 360 uses a proprietary wireless format. Microsoft is allowing both Activision and Harmonix to rock the wireless this time around...but I bet that $20 difference is basically a royalty-slash-cut-of-the-take for Microsoft.

All of which assumes that anything they're reporting on price - especially since they acknowledge Harmonix/EA's silence on the matter - comes to fruition.

[Arles]

I think a certain amount of damage is already done with potential customers concerning the RROD - who *really* wants to send off their 360? Nobody. What happens after your 3 year warranty is up? Is your system on it's last legs then? Some people still have working original ataris and NES', a console with the potential for only a 3-4 year shelf life is not all that enticing.
I don't know. Outside of the PS2 and maybe original Nintendo, I don't think I got more than 3-4 years of use out of any other console (PS1, XBox, SNes, Genesis). I'm not thinking that I will still be using my current XBox360 in 2010. Either I will have a new console all together or there will be a reason for me to pay an extra $300 and get the new version of the console.

[Eaglesfan27]

I don't know. Outside of the PS2 and maybe original Nintendo, I don't think I got more than 3-4 years of use out of any other console (PS1, XBox, SNes, Genesis). I'm not thinking that I will still be using my current XBox360 in 2010. Either I will have a new console all together or there will be a reason for me to pay an extra $300 and get the new version of the console.

Yeah, I always thought most people knew (particularly if they bought a launch console) that their console would have a limited life. My launch PS2 died after 2 1/2 years. By that point, I enjoyed the console enough that I bought a new one to replace it which lasted for almost 5 years before it died. I'm sure that whenever my 360 dies (still hasn't given me a single problem in almost 2 years), I'll replace it with one of the newer models and either sell or gift my repaired 360 to someone.

[SackAttack]

Microsoft confirmed that "going forward" the 360 Premium will include an HDMI input (but not, presumably, the cable).

Box'll be stickered, so for folks who need to do an exchange, or who are just picking one up in the first place, if HDMI matters to you, look for the sticker.

[stevew]

The Halo 3 "Game Fuel" flavor of Mountain Dew is pretty good.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

More industry info for today. Looks like EA now has 1/4 of the Ubisoft stock.......

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/811/811468p1.html

Famitsu (Japan) sales numbers are in for the week. Only major change in sales volume was that the PS3 fell back some after the Minna No Golf 5 release. Still selling well above the 10-12K that it had earlier in the year, but it's down from the 38K spike last week.

DSL - 140,000
Wii - 63,000
PSP - 30,000
PS3 - 22,000
PS2 - 15,000
360 - 3,300

1. [Wii] Mario Party 8 - 150,000 (~430,000）
2. [PS2] J League WE - 140,000
3. [PS3] Minna no Golf 5 - 43,000（~220,000）
4. [NDS] Its a Wonderful World - 41,000（~120,000）
5. [Wii] Wii Sports - 27,000 (~1,840,000）
6. [PS2] (5 / 1) Jikkyou Powerful Pro Yakyuu 14
7. [Wii] (12/ 9) Wii Play (Wii, Nintendo)
8. [NDS] (NEW) Face Training DS (DS, Nintendo)
9. [NDS] (10/ 4) Legend of Zelda: Phantom Hourglass (NDS, Nintendo)
10. [NDS] (16/13) New Super Mario Bros. (NDS, Nintendo)

Big rumor being spread around the net is that the "major announcement" that Sony is expected to make in Leipzig involves Rockstar. The rumor is that the GTA franchise will be back to a PS3 exclusive for the next iteration. In addition, Sony may be able to hold onto its claim that they "don't pay for exclusives" by an outright purchase of Rockstar. Unconfirmed rumor at this point that will hopefully be cleared up in 11 days.

If we make the HUGE assumption that this rumor is true for the sake of discussion, what impact would it have on the systems? Obviously, the PS3 would be at a much cheaper price point by 2009. Rockstar has already confirmed they are working on a PS3 exclusive title for '09. Is that the next GTA game or another franchise? Perhaps it could be a sequel to Bully as well.

Also, by 2009, many of the 3 year RROD warranties on the old 360's will run out. There's going to be a lot of people looking to replace the old 360 consoles. Do they pay the repair charge to get their console fixed, do they buy a new 360, or do they switch over to a PS3? My guess is that they buy a new console because I don't think many will see repair as an option unless MS is offering refurbished units without the RROD as a replacement option for an old broken RROD 360. I think that the decisions made by the 5-6 million gamers who will have an old 360 without a warranty at that point could have a big effect on how this console war plays out.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Jaffe's studio confirms first of their three exclusive PS3 games will be out in mid-2008.

http://www.n4g.com/ps3/News-57743.aspx

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Lots of good info for those of you looking to get the new version of the 360......

http://dubiousquality.blogspot.com/2007/08/console-post-of-week-one-day-early.html

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Halo 3 started taking pre-orders today. Over 1 million sold already. MS is expecting 2-3 million preorders. I'm guessing they won't sell out.

[Eaglesfan27]

I've read projections of 4-5 million copies of Halo 3 sold in the first week. That seems incredible. Has any game sold that many copies in the first week?

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

I've read projections of 4-5 million copies of Halo 3 sold in the first week. That seems incredible. Has any game sold that many copies in the first week?

That game is the common #1 reason that many people had the last Xbox and the reason they have the 360 now. An attach rate of over 50-60% on any console for any game is an amazing feat. Definitely a good cash inflow for MS in the coming weeks. They'll see a huge drop-off in sales shortly after the opening 2-3 weeks just because of the ridiculous amount of people that are going to buy the game right around release.

[spleen1015]

I don't know how it started taking pre-orders today. My son has had a pre-order for the Legendary Edition since March or April.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

I don't know how it started taking pre-orders today. My son has had a pre-order for the Legendary Edition since March or April.

Ah, the article was about pre-orders for the Halo 3 console package. My bad.

http://www.engadget.com/2007/08/09/halo-3-xbox-360-pre-orders-go-live/

That makes the fact that they've pre-sold 1 million games a lot easier to understand. :)

[Pumpy Tudors]

It feels weird to me to see the impact that the Halo games have had on Xbox/Xbox 360 sames. It feels weird because I'm one of the few Xbox/Xbox 360 owners who's never even played a Halo game. Well, hey, whatever builds the console sales is fine with me. I'm sure there are other people who don't understand why people would stand in line to pick up preorders of NCAA Football or Madden (both of which I've done). I'm just feigning surprise that Halo 3 is such a huge deal that it's getting people to buy a Halo-themed Xbox 360 console. I love NCAA Football, but I wouldn't preorder a University of Memphis console if I could just walk into the store and buy a plain Xbox 360 console off the shelf right now.

Yes, yes, I know "to each his own" and all that. I'm just being silly.

[Kodos]

I've never been a big Halo fan. I tried the first one, but just couldn't get into it.

[MikeVic]

I don't like console FPS period... I can't use a controller to aim and move properly, and I hate split-screen. I understand it's fun, but if I get a 360 sometime in the future, and do get Halo 3... it would be for the 4-player online co-op mode. :)

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

It feels weird to me to see the impact that the Halo games have had on Xbox/Xbox 360 sames. It feels weird because I'm one of the few Xbox/Xbox 360 owners who's never even played a Halo game. Well, hey, whatever builds the console sales is fine with me. I'm sure there are other people who don't understand why people would stand in line to pick up preorders of NCAA Football or Madden (both of which I've done). I'm just feigning surprise that Halo 3 is such a huge deal that it's getting people to buy a Halo-themed Xbox 360 console. I love NCAA Football, but I wouldn't preorder a University of Memphis console if I could just walk into the store and buy a plain Xbox 360 console off the shelf right now.

Yes, yes, I know "to each his own" and all that. I'm just being silly.

Part of that is just the forum that we're in. This is a big sports forum for obvious reasons. I'm sure that the percentage of 360 owners who will get Halo 3 is lower here than in other forums with younger or non-sports gamers.

I don't like console FPS period... I can't use a controller to aim and move properly, and I hate split-screen. I understand it's fun, but if I get a 360 sometime in the future, and do get Halo 3... it would be for the 4-player online co-op mode.

Unreal Tournament 3 on the PS3 allows mouse/keyboard controls. It'll be interesting to see if that's successful or if it's just a blip on the radar and the FPS's on the consoles stay with the controllers.

[terpkristin]

I've always considered myself to be more of a Sony girl (and Nintendo in the handheld market), but I have a 360 right now and not a PS3.

I got into Halo via Red vs. Blue, and bought my 360 mostly for Halo (I never owned the original XBox). I will at some point in the forseeable future be buying a PS3, once there are a few more games out for it that I'd actually want to play...

/tk

[Kodos]

The keyboard and mouse crowd is always very vocal. Me, I can't imagine playing with those. I like playing FPS in my chair with a controller.

[spleen1015]

I've never understood the Halo draw either. It is just another FPS. If you really like Halo, there should be no reason you don't like Metroid Prime. Halo is half the game Metroid Prime is.

[Kodos]

I've never understood the whole Metroid thing either. :)

[Fidatelo]

I've never understood the Halo draw either. It is just another FPS. If you really like Halo, there should be no reason you don't like Metroid Prime. Halo is half the game Metroid Prime is.

Metroid Prime sucked balls because I had to spend half my time scanning objects and reading text instead of doing things that are fun. I've never understood how that game became so revered, for that simple fact.

[spleen1015]

Metroid Prime sucked balls because I had to spend half my time scanning objects and reading text instead of doing things that are fun. I've never understood how that game became so revered, for that simple fact.

That aspect of the game wasn't that bad. You weren't doing it that much. It was less than 5% of total playing time.

There's never been an FPS with as many character upgrades that Metroid has.

Grapple Beam. Game over.

[stevew]

http://www.fatwallet.com/redirect/bounce.php?afsrc=1&url=http://www.amazon.com/Xbox-Console-20GB-Hard-Drive/dp/B000B43OY4/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/105-6629365-4875631?ie=UTF8&s=videogames&qid=1186681939&sr=8-1

$329 for the 360 at amazon.

[Fidatelo]

That aspect of the game wasn't that bad. You weren't doing it that much. It was less than 5% of total playing time.

There's never been an FPS with as many character upgrades that Metroid has.

Grapple Beam. Game over.

I only played the first level or two, and it felt like I had to use that scan thing almost all the time. It was easily >50% of my time spent in the game. Which is why I never made it past the first couple of levels, it was tedious.

[stevew]

I hated prime, primarily cause the scan sucked so hard. I tried to play it several times, and couldn't get into it.

[Eaglesfan27]

I just saw these sales numbers for NCAA 08 which is one of the better selling titles this year. It makes the projections of 4-5 million sales for Halo 3 in the 1st week even more impressive. I wonder what Madden's sales will look like through the 1st 3 weeks and if the PS3 sales will be as hurt by the 30 FPS as it appears to have been with NCAA:

360
08 = 516,823
07 = 434,091
( + 82,732 )

PS3
08 = 107,173
07 = n/a

CG totals thru the first three weeks
08 = 623,996
07 = 434,091
( +189,905 )


ps2
08 = 258,316
07 = 640,758
( -382,442 )

Xbox
08 = 42,153
07 = 204,348
( -162,195 )

LG totals thru the first three weeks
08 = 300,469
07 = 845,106
( -544,637)

[wade moore]

wow - the drop of 1/2 million sales is huge. I saw something awhile ago about how the overall sales of Madden have been trending down since EA bought the exclusive license, but wow.

[IMetTrentGreen]

I only played the first level or two, and it felt like I had to use that scan thing almost all the time. It was easily >50% of my time spent in the game. Which is why I never made it past the first couple of levels, it was tedious.

ditto

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

wow - the drop of 1/2 million sales is huge. I saw something awhile ago about how the overall sales of Madden have been trending down since EA bought the exclusive license, but wow.

Madden '07 was pretty mediocre as well. I'd expect an overall sales drop on that franchise. There were a lot of people who weren't too happy with their last effort. I know a lot of people on this board said they'd be slow to buy it this year until they got more feedback. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of those people just never get around to buying it at all or they buy it used.

[wade moore]

Madden '07 was pretty mediocre as well. I'd expect an overall sales drop on that franchise. There were a lot of people who weren't too happy with their last effort. I know a lot of people on this board said they'd be slow to buy it this year until they got more feedback. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of those people just never get around to buying it at all or they buy it used.

Yeah, I definitely understand the reasons considering this may be year #2 of me not buying it - but I didn't realize it was getting that significant... You have to wonder if EA is regretting that $1billion or whatever it was to the NFL...

[Kodos]

I didn't ever buy Madden 2007, but I will have 2008 on day one. Sadly, I'm already kindof in "maybe in 2009" mode with some of the news about franchise mode. Sounds like Madden will be improved, but not truly great again this year. I can get around franchise problems by controlling all of the teams. Hopefully it's good on the field, and QBs can put a little touch on the ball easier than in NCAA.

[Eaglesfan27]

I didn't ever buy Madden 2007, but I will have 2008 on day one. Sadly, I'm already kindof in "maybe in 2009" mode with some of the news about franchise mode. Sounds like Madden will be improved, but not truly great again this year. I can get around franchise problems by controlling all of the teams. Hopefully it's good on the field, and QBs can put a little touch on the ball easier than in NCAA.

Where have you seen info on franchise mode? I've been scanning around and haven't seen much at all, yet. One good thing from the early impressions is that it is reportedly easier (just like old Madden games) to throw with touch.

[Kodos]

Oh, just that guy who can't spell. Seemed like he was saying franchise mode is somewhat unimpressive in terms of features.

[terpkristin]

Not really having played Madden or any of the US football games, I can't speak to how true it is, but I think a lot of people are getting sick of spending $60 for more of the same. EA has admitted that over the past couple of years, the game hasn't changed except for roster updates, especially for the newer consoles. I think that's also part of the reason that people are getting annoyed that the servers are coming down. The game doesn't change, they don't want to spend money for new names on the backs of shirts, and now, with the online stuff being taken down for the older games, they are forced to. I see this backfiring quite a bit for EA. I only really play the FIFA games from them, and rarely play online (so far I've been too lazy to set up an XBoxLive account for my 360), but even FIFA is mostly roster updates...

/tk

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

EA has secured the Monopoly franchise. Expect yearly property name updates to come out on all consoles.......

http://www.joystiq.com/2007/08/10/ea-gets-monopoly-on-monopoly/

[Fidatelo]

I think the decrease in sales is because when Madden transitioned from PS2/XBox to XBox360 it DROPPED a tonne of features. Ususally you pay extra money each year for the new stuff (and updated rosters), but buying Madden 07 for the 360 was paying money to go back about 5 years (from a features standpoint). Sure, the graphics looked better, but that wears off really quick.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Europe and North America will both be interesting in the coming weeks. The 360 should get some level of console sales boost with the Halo 3 release and retake the weekly sales lead, which has been in the PS3's favor for the last month or so.

Over the pond, the latest weekly numbers are in and the PS3 continues to expand its sales margin over the Xbox 360 (now 2:1 in favor of the PS3) despite the 360 being much cheaper. With a PS3 price cut likely in the next two weeks at Leipzig, Sony could make major headway in that market during the run-up to the holiday season.

http://vgchartz.com/eweekly.php?date=39299

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Interesting post on a message board concerning the leaked price cuts. Evidentally, MS and Sony are not happy about it. Cheapy D has already hired a lawyer and is refusing to turn over Speedy's info.

CC is going after Speedy by demand of Sony and Microsoft and have subpoena CheapD of Cheapassgamer.com. Best Buy, Target and Wal-mart are also believed to have joined the fight. Ccity is just leading the way.

Im the guy who leaked out the full page ad of the PS3 price cut right after speedy. I sadly have lost my job over it at the request of Sony. I was in a 2 hour interview/talk with Lose Prevention of CCity headquarters and have actually gained alot of interesting info about whats going on behind the scenes in regards to the leakers. Apprently they have been after Speedy for awhile now before even the PS3 leak.

I have already e-mailed CheapyD about all of this earlier.

Sony was so mad by the leak that the guy said "They want someones head on a stick for this" and that Sony was losing a big amount of money over the leak and was forced to drop the price a week early.

Also Sony, microsoft, other companies and retailers will be going after not just the leakers but also sites that post leaked info such as ads or full mention of the sales. This includes sites such as 1up.com, Joystiq.com, Cheapassgamer, Kotoka.com and others. onces not included are sites like IGN, gamespot and offical magazine sites since they do not post the ads or the leaked info, but only a rumored regards in response to talk over the internet. They have also been watching the forums and message boards for such things and will be going after the site owners for allowed leaked items to be posted and also the posters.

Also apprently Sony also threatened to pull all support from Ccity chain if they did not comply with them on their leakers.

Speedy they believe works at a printing plant which of course many already assumed.

One last thing. employees who work at big retailers such as Best Buy, CCity and even printing plants are to sign a confidentiality contract stating not to leak out any information or upcoming sales to the public before the planned release date. Though this contract is sketchy about things because it excludes close friends and family.

I was working at the 3rd top store of Ccity so I had very earily access to sales ads up to 3 weeks in advance because the ads are printed about a month ahead of the actually sales date.

So keep in mind that its not just Circuit City behind all of this, it is many companies and retailers cracking down on this.

Oh and one last thing. Stores do no make anything on video game console sales. On computers they only make about 5% to 15% on sales and at most on tv's, they only make about 25% on sales which is a rare and high number. stores such as Ccity and best buy make their money on accessories, small merch, services and sales.

[Eaglesfan27]

I'm sure the lawyers on the board could chime in, but it seems unlikely to me that a suit against a message board for discussing a rumor would have any chance of succeeding.

[sabotai]

I'm sure the lawyers on the board could chime in, but it seems unlikely to me that a suit against a message board for discussing a rumor would have any chance of succeeding.

Me either, unless there is some kind of breach of contract between Sony/Microsoft and the owner(s) of the message board.

[terpkristin]

Me either, unless there is some kind of breach of contract between Sony/Microsoft and the owner(s) of the message board.

to be clear, CAG, and DVDTalk.com (I believe) have not been sued. They have both been served with a subpoena to give circuit city information on the user who posted the information.

after the CAGCast where CheapyD announced the service, a new user to the forum posted there what Mizzou re-posted here. It's hard to vouch for the accuracy of that statement, though i admit it's believeable. but so far, all that's gone on is that the 2 sites were served, and CheapyD has contacted an attorney.

/tk

[terpkristin]

dola,
Kotaku gives a quick blurb on what's going on: http://kotaku.com/gaming/not-cheap/circuit-city-subpoenas-cheapassgamer-288081.php

The latest CAGcast (http://www.cheapassgamer.com/archives/cagcast-85-you-got-served.php) brings word that electronics retailer Circuit City has served CAG Productions with a subpoena. CAG Productions is responsible for popular video game shopping community CheapAssGamer.com, which has 100,000 registered members. The retail giant wants CAG to turn over all personal information about registered forum member Speedy1961, who has been posting weekly CC ads prior to their release on the site. Speedy has also posted them on DVDtalk.com, and that site appears to have received legal action as well. The subpoena mentions one CheapAssGamer thread in particular, which prior to E3, revealed that the PS3 would get a price drop. That same thread also included pricing for games at Circuit City as well as game prices at Target and Best Buy. From the thread: * GAMERS / MOVIE AFFICIANADOS: Please note $100 Price Break on Playstation 3 Game System which brings the price down to $499.99 // Remember that you can get 5 free Blu-Ray DVDs with purchase of any Blu-Ray Player / Game system by going here: http://www.bluraysavings.com/ This was wedged in between details about the Wii and other details. As mentioned aboved, information about Best Buy and Target was also noted. CAG Productions CEO David Abrams (AKA "CheapyD") has hired a lawyer. "The CAG community's trust and respect is very important to me, so I've hired legal representation to deal with the situation," Abrams tells Kotaku.



/tk

[sterlingice]

Hm... I'm just not sure what to think about the speedy thing on CAG. Going to take a little time to digest and think about it from all angles.

The fact that Sony wants blood, of course, makes them look like villains like people who try to say that the RIAA tactics make their claims invalid. But, again, 2 wrongs don't make a right so evaluting the first as a "wrong" is the most important step.

SI

[sterlingice]

Do people really care how many disks a game comes on?

Is Final Fantasy 7 a worse game because it comes on multiple disks? I don't think so...

(no, it's a worse game because despite all of the gameplay and technological advances as well as being the first game to play like a movie, its plot sucked something fierce ;) )

SI

[sterlingice]

I am happy to play the part of Nintendo fan-boy, incidentally.

I, too, relish in this role. We're the happy, naive people of the video game world :D

SI

[sterlingice]

I don't know. Outside of the PS2 and maybe original Nintendo, I don't think I got more than 3-4 years of use out of any other console (PS1, XBox, SNes, Genesis). I'm not thinking that I will still be using my current XBox360 in 2010. Either I will have a new console all together or there will be a reason for me to pay an extra $300 and get the new version of the console.

Is this in the sense of "did not play after 4 years" or "did not work after 4 years"? If it's the latter, I still have my SNES, N64, and PSX and all work perfectly still. The NES I bought off of ebay is of "iffy" working quality as it flashes a lot and I'm looking for a top loader. I checked my NES at home this past week and it still mostly works- had trouble with a couple of games.

SI

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Is this in the sense of "did not play after 4 years" or "did not work after 4 years"? If it's the latter, I still have my SNES, N64, and PSX and all work perfectly still. The NES I bought off of ebay is of "iffy" working quality as it flashes a lot and I'm looking for a top loader. I checked my NES at home this past week and it still mostly works- had trouble with a couple of games.

SI

I think the old 360's are definitely a case of 'did not work after 4 years'. The new ones should have a better life assuming the changes assist the RROD problem.

On a separate note related to the life of a console, saw this interview of the Square-Enix exec who comments that the 360 and PS3 specs are set too high. I'm getting more vibes that the 360 and PS3 will be with us for quite a bit longer than previous console life cycles. I think there's just a lot of room for growth on these consoles. I think the Wii will slow the life cycle as well because developers aren't in a big hurry to optimize for the 360 and PS3 when they have a money farm with low development costs in the form of the Wii available.

http://square-enix-news.newslib.com/story/5218-3210370/

[Arles]

Is this in the sense of "did not play after 4 years" or "did not work after 4 years"? If it's the latter, I still have my SNES, N64, and PSX and all work perfectly still. The NES I bought off of ebay is of "iffy" working quality as it flashes a lot and I'm looking for a top loader. I checked my NES at home this past week and it still mostly works- had trouble with a couple of games.

SI
I would compare it to older operating systems. I could fire up Windows 98 right now and play all the old apps/games I had 5-6 years ago, but it doesn't make that much sense to do so. So, while it may still work, it doesn't give me any more value than if it broke at the end of 4-5 years. And, like the old OS parallel, if I get a real itch to play Super Punch out, I can just download and play it on the Wii.

[Eaglesfan27]

Rumors are floating around (supposedly backed by images) that a 360 bundle will be released "around the holidays" that includes Forza 2 and Marvel Ultimate Alliance. Both are games that I've enjoyed playing. Here is a link to one of the sources:

http://www.pro-g.co.uk/news/13-08-2007-6222.html

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Looks like Ubisoft is already making a game similar to Little Big Planet.

http://ps3.qj.net/Ubisoft-working-on-something-like-LittleBigPlanet/pg/49/aid/99830

Ubisoft working on something like LittleBigPlanet
Posted Aug 13, 2007 at 10:58AM by Ryan A.

Listed in: News, Games
Tags: Ubisoft, Yves Guillemot Ubisoft CEO Yves Guillemot delivered a keynote speech earlier today at the Edinburgh Interactive Entertainment Festival (EIEF) 2007. During the keynote, Guillemot gave a sort of preview for his company's next video game title as he discussed the importance of user-created content.

According to the CEO, Ubisoft is currently working on a new title that will provide gamers with a powerful and easy to understand tool set. Furthermore, gamers will be able to come up with their own adventures using the said tool set.

Other users will then be able to "preview" the work and comment on it - ultimately making it better. Guillemot further explained, "The goal is really to make sure our consumers become creators. We need to put gamers in the spotlight and recognize their creativity and make sure that our consumers are the stars".

No concrete details were given but those who heard the speech couldn't help but think of the PlayStation 3's LittleBigPlanet.


Also, an interesting new game was announced for the 360/PS3.........a new dodgeball game. Screen shots included.

http://www.worthplaying.com/article.php?sid=45106&mode=thread&order=0

[KWhit]

Also, an interesting new game was announced for the 360/PS3.........a new dodgeball game. Screen shots included.

http://www.worthplaying.com/article.php?sid=45106&mode=thread&order=0


Wow, that looks horrible.

[MikeVic]

Also, an interesting new game was announced for the 360/PS3.........a new dodgeball game. Screen shots included.

http://www.worthplaying.com/article.php?sid=45106&mode=thread&order=0

Huh, where does it say 360/PS3?

[SackAttack]

Huh, where does it say 360/PS3?

I think the slash there doesn't mean both for sure, necessarily, only that it'll definitely be out for one or the other. I mean, I guess it COULD be Wii-exclusive, but that doesn't seem likely.

[SackAttack]

Dola,

Also, the PS3/X360 bit is in the article's title as well. Little weird to do that and then say "yet to be announced" in the article, but there you are.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

More industry news.

First, the NPD numbers release was delayed for a week and will be released on August 23rd.

GTA IV continues to be pushed back. Current place holder on Amazon is now June 30th. Future release dates at month-end like that often indicate that it's only a place-holder date, so I wouldn't be shocked to see it fall even further back into the fall. MS has got to be smarting that they spent $50M for exclusive content for this holiday season, only to see the developers drag their feet and likely have to wait a year for its release. It will be interesting to see if MS tries to recoup some of that money due to the severely delayed release. They've got to really feel like they burned money in this case.

http://www.n4g.com/News-59312.aspx

Looks like the PS3 will likely be getting an equivalent of the 360's GamerTags. Slipped out via UT3 showing...........

http://www.games-digest.com/2007/08/gamercard-spott.html

Good Heavenly Sword developer interview. Over 10 GB of HD sound available on the game, including 3 1/2 hours of original music, 1 1/2 hours of cut scenes, and dialog in 11 different languages. This one's going to sound great in a HD home theater. Also, nice to see that the developers took care of all regions in regards to language on the same disc. It will allow for a worldwide release on the same day with no region-specific language discs, hence no release delays in any regions.

http://www.developmag.com/tutorials/28/Heard-About-Heavenly-Sword

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Dola,

Also, the PS3/X360 bit is in the article's title as well. Little weird to do that and then say "yet to be announced" in the article, but there you are.

Yes, that's where I took it from in this case. Good point.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

ROFL. I'd love to see your list of "good games" coming out every week for the next 3 months for the PS3.

EF27, wanted to keep this discussion out of the NCAA thread. Here's the list over the next few months in regards to titles being released weekly for the PS3......

August 20: GRAW 2
August 27: Warhawk
September 3: Lair
September 10: Heavenly Sword
September 17:
September 24: Skate
October 1: PlayStation Home, Hot Shots Golf, Sony/EA/2K NBA games
October 8: Folklore
October 15:
October 22: Ratchet & Clank
October 29: GH3
November 5: Mercs 2, COD4, UT3, Lego Star Wars
November 12: Army of Two, Assassin’s Creed, Kane & Lynch, Orange Box, SingStar
November 19: Haze, Rock Band, Time Crisis 4, Uncharted: Drake’s Fortune

[Eaglesfan27]

I'll copy my comments from the other thread: That is a huge leap of faith with some of the games on that list. Some weeks, no games are coming out for the PS3, so you couldn't try to hype them into "good games." I'm willing to bet that Lair will be a huge flop in comparsion to the expectations.

Edit: Also, a lot of them appear to be niche titles that will not have widespread appeal, which Madden does have.

[spleen1015]

I'll copy my comments from the other thread: That is a huge leap of faith with quite a few games on that list. Some weeks, no games are coming out for the PS3, so you couldn't try to hype them into "good games." I'm willing to bet that Lair will be a huge flop in comparsion to the expectations.

What?! You don't think a Dragonriding dog fighting sim will hit it big?

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

I'll copy my comments from the other thread: That is a huge leap of faith with some of the games on that list. Some weeks, no games are coming out for the PS3, so you couldn't try to hype them into "good games." I'm willing to bet that Lair will be a huge flop in comparsion to the expectations.

Edit: Also, a lot of them appear to be niche titles that will not have widespread appeal, which Madden does have.

I agree with you about Lair only because the expectations are ridiculously high. It will still sell quite a few units and will be a good game, but there's no way it could reach the hype.

In regards to niche titles, you could say that about most any games. The 360 is a no purchase for me because I simply don't like FPS games. The big games (Halo, Gears, Mass Effect, Bioshock, Lost Planet) are all in that genre. I think that there a large segment of U.S. users that are nearly exclusively sports and FPS gamers and Microsoft plays to that crowd (I don't think most in this forum are in that segment).

Sony has a huge segment of gamers that are into what those gamers would call 'niche' games. While not overly popular here, there are gamers here in the U.S. that enjoy those games and the overseas gamers absolutely eat them up. There's a reason that Sony is selling extremely well elsewhere despite the higher price. People love those games. Until Sony is able to get the games flowing a bit more and drop the price, the adoption rate is going to be a bit slower in the U.S.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

What?! You don't think a Dragonriding dog fighting sim will hit it big?

There's a lot of fantasy/sci-fi geeks that will eat that game up. I realize that many in this forum aren't into that kind of game and you're just goofin' around (actually this is the second time you've used that line in this thread), but there are plenty of consumers worldwide that want that game. However, I think it will see more success overseas than it will stateside.

Most didn't think a game about rolling up stuff in a ball was anything more than a niche game. Now they're multi-millionaires and Microsoft paid big money to make them a 360 exclusive. I personally think the game has reached its innovative limit and it's not a huge loss for Sony, but writing off games because they may seem nutty or niche is a bad idea, especially as it slows innovation and creation of new franchises, which are sorely needed.

[Eaglesfan27]

Mass Effect is not a FPS, it's a RPG. Unless, it's changed, you can pause the combat just like KOTOR 1 and 2.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Mass Effect is not a FPS, it's a RPG. Unless, it's changed, you can pause the combat just like KOTOR 1 and 2.

I was under the impression that it was first-person like Oblivion. If not, I stand corrected.

[Eaglesfan27]

There's a lot of fantasy/sci-fi geeks that will eat that game up. I realize that many in this forum aren't into that kind of game and you're just goofin' around (actually this is the second time you've used that line in this thread), but there are plenty of consumers worldwide that want that game. However, I think it will see more success overseas than it will stateside.

I agree with you that there is a big segment that would eat it up, if it was done well. However, with the release date push back and bad previews, I'm convinced the control scheme is going to turn off a lot of potential customers.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

I agree with you that there is a big segment that would eat it up, if it was done well. However, with the release date push back and bad previews, I'm convinced the control scheme is going to turn off a lot of potential customers.

IF the control scheme is bad, I certainly agree. Also, the reviews that were done were on a previous build, not the final build.

I also have a big problem with writing off a game as not looking good because the game was delayed. As consumers, we all hate delays. However, I don't want developers to be in a position where they feel that they have to release a game unfinished or buggy just to get it out 'on time'. There's a ridiculous amount of pressure by execs (as dawgfan and gstelmack can attest) to get games out the door as quickly as possible, sometimes to the detriment of the final product. I'd rather they hold off and get it right. There's a lot of tweaking that the Lair developers can do in a month's time. If it's not ready, I'd rather they don't put it out and give me a better product.

GTA IV is another game in this category. It went from being release in a couple of months to delaying the release for at least 8 months, if not longer. That game must have been awfully rough around the edges (or outright broken) when they did the tech demo a couple of weeks back for them to delay it that long. Some have already said that they have a lot of concerns about that game and the developers. I say delay it until it's ready and don't judge it until then. I don't want to spend my hard-earned money on a half-baked game.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

I don't really get this logic.......

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=27675

The Epic president is saying that the PS3 version will have more maps on UT3 due to disc size restrictions on the 360. Why can't they just put out a multi-disc release for the 360 that includes those maps? Would that cause too much disc swapping if the user repeatedly played maps on the second disc? Include an option to load the extra maps to the HDD?

[spleen1015]

There's a lot of fantasy/sci-fi geeks that will eat that game up. I realize that many in this forum aren't into that kind of game and you're just goofin' around (actually this is the second time you've used that line in this thread), but there are plenty of consumers worldwide that want that game. However, I think it will see more success overseas than it will stateside.

Most didn't think a game about rolling up stuff in a ball was anything more than a niche game. Now they're multi-millionaires and Microsoft paid big money to make them a 360 exclusive. I personally think the game has reached its innovative limit and it's not a huge loss for Sony, but writing off games because they may seem nutty or niche is a bad idea, especially as it slows innovation and creation of new franchises, which are sorely needed.

I am making fun of it. I think it is a bad idea for a game and I don't see what the draw is.

[Pumpy Tudors]

I don't really get this logic.......

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=27675

The Epic president is saying that the PS3 version will have more maps on UT3 due to disc size restrictions on the 360.
Minor point of clarification: He says that the PS3 version may have more maps.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Rumor about the long-hyped, but rarely shown Afrika for PS3. Looks like its release may be moved up........

15.08.07 - Here are some messages from the rumor column of the Japanese Game Labo, of which none was so far confirmed.

- Of Sony, Africa(PS3) a kind “search/investigation software” should be, which uses pressure and touch-sensitive mat for the input. The developers got the order to bring Africa before Nintendo Wiifit(Wii) on the market.

[SackAttack]

EF27, wanted to keep this discussion out of the NCAA thread. Here's the list over the next few months in regards to titles being released weekly for the PS3......

August 20: GRAW 2
August 27: Warhawk
September 3: Lair
September 10: Heavenly Sword
September 17:
September 24: Skate
October 1: PlayStation Home, Hot Shots Golf, Sony/EA/2K NBA games
October 8: Folklore
October 15:
October 22: Ratchet & Clank
October 29: GH3
November 5: Mercs 2, COD4, UT3, Lego Star Wars
November 12: Army of Two, Assassin’s Creed, Kane & Lynch, Orange Box, SingStar
November 19: Haze, Rock Band, Time Crisis 4, Uncharted: Drake’s Fortune

GRAW 2...about six months late to the game, as Xbox 360 has had it for a while. Good game, absolutely, but hard to see how much impact it's going to have.

Warhawk is online-only, much like Shadowrun. Also, I know Warhawk is going to be available via the PSN Store. I don't know if it will see a retail release.

Lair has the well-publicized shit reviews based on an "old" build. I will reserve judgment until the final game comes out.

Heavenly Sword looks good, but my fear there is "Kratos with boobs." I hope it's deeper than that.

Skate is going to have to compete with a well-established THPS franchise. It could be a great game and still flop in sales. We saw that with NFL 2k vs Madden before 2k went budget-priced.

Home should be awesome. Hot Shots Golf is always fun. I'm not a big NBA guy, but plenty of people are. The interesting thing to watch will be whether or not the NBA titles come out in 1080p (all of them) this year, and whether they do so for the 360 now that there's an HDMI-enabled Premium model out there. I expect sales to be fairly even on the third-party hoops games either way, but it will be interesting to see if the PS3 gets the better end of the basketball visuals after it got shorted relative to 360 on MLB2k7.

Folklore will be my first must-own PS3 game...and I don't even have a PS3. Seriously, that thing is awesome.

Ratchet & Clank will be my second. How scary is it that I don't own a PS3 and yet I'd still consider picking those games up, just to have them?

Guitar Hero 3...I think it will sell well, which obviates the discussion about whether it's any good, but it's basically got three weeks to get established, because once Rock Band comes out, that's an ass-whuppin'.

Mercs 2, COD 4, UT3, Lego Star Wars...which of these is not like the others? All four of them are good games, but two of the first three will be multi-platform, and thus at best can blunt the impact of the 360 getting those games this holiday as well. UT3 will actually be a timed PS3 exclusive, if I recall correctly, and so that one is likely to be a big seller. Lego Star Wars is, uh...making an appearance on about its 15th different game system, and is unlikely to be significantly different from its other iterations, excepting possibly that they might stick both games on one disc. Still. Unless they budget-price that one, it'll be cheaper to just pick up both games for PS2 and play 'em that way.

Army of Two, Assassin's Creed, Kane & Lynch, Orange Box, SingStar. I haven't played Army of Two, so I will withhold comment. Assassin's Creed I expect to have at least some effect at driving PS3 adoption rates, just because there are still people who think it's exclusive to that system. Kane & Lynch will sell very well for both platforms. I haven't played Orange Box, but like Army, it's multi-platform, so we'll see what we see.

SingStar had better be better than the PS2 versions, or Fozzie won't buy it. :D

Haze, Rock Band, Time Crisis 4, Uncharted: Drake's Fortune....Haze looks excellent, I'm completely ignorant on Time Crisis 4. Rock Band is going to be a phenomenon; I have no idea how to read which way the pendulum will swing here, though. There'd be more people to play it online with on Xbox 360, but rumor has it that the 360 bundle, while costing the same, might ship with a corded guitar because of Microsoft's wireless royalty (and if they can't see how that's going to bite them in the balls, oh well).

Uncharted will probably be my third must-own game.

Bottom line, I agree with EF there. Yes, there are some killer titles on that list, but most of it is going to be food for the starving men who own the system already; I see fewer than half a dozen games on that list that I believe have the potential to drive hardware adoption, and one of them - Folklore - while being damned awesome, is also going to be more niche as an RPG. We'll see.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Warhawk is online-only, much like Shadowrun. Also, I know Warhawk is going to be available via the PSN Store. I don't know if it will see a retail release.

.......................

Bottom line, I agree with EF there. Yes, there are some killer titles on that list, but most of it is going to be food for the starving men who own the system already; I see fewer than half a dozen games on that list that I believe have the potential to drive hardware adoption, and one of them - Folklore - while being damned awesome, is also going to be more niche as an RPG. We'll see.

Warhawk will be released in retail and online. Downloadable version is $40, retail version is $60 and it comes with a Bluetooth headset in the box.


I certainly agree that none of these games individually will be system sellers. MSG4 in March will be the first one to drive sales. The post was just to illustrate that there are games coming for the PS3 as EF27 had asked what games were incoming.

I also understand that some of them were timed exclusives for the 360, but a lot of the current PS3 owners don't have a 360, so these games are going to sell because it is new to the majority of the installed base. I picked up Oblivion when it came out on the PS3 and my experience wasn't ruined by any means just because it was previously released on another system. If anything, I got a better version of the game and knew I was getting a solid product when I bought it.

[spleen1015]

Sounds like I need to see what Folklore, Haze and Uncharted are all about.

[SackAttack]

Warhawk will be released in retail and online. Downloadable version is $40, retail version is $60 and it comes with a Bluetooth headset in the box.


I certainly agree that none of these games individually will be system sellers. MSG4 in March will be the first one to drive sales. The post was just to illustrate that there are games coming for the PS3 as EF27 had asked what games were incoming.

I also understand that some of them were timed exclusives for the 360, but a lot of the current PS3 owners don't have a 360, so these games are going to move some units because it is new to the majority of the installed base. I picked up Oblivion when it came out on the PS3 and my experience wasn't ruined by any means just because it was previously released on another system. If anything, I got a better version of the game and knew I was getting a solid product when I bought it.

Some of the "timed 360 exclusives," like Oblivion, were so timed because, well, PS3 wasn't out yet. My guess is, had PS3 been out at the same time as 360 originally, there wouldn't have been a gap between the two. Certainly not a one-year gap.

As for the multiplatform games, I think they're going to have decent sales numbers, but as I say, I attribute that more to the "starving man" effect than anything else. I can't see any games on that list that have been on 360 already where unaffiliated people are going to say "Man, I want to play that, but I'm going to wait for it to come out on PS3..."

Also: when I say "units" in my post above, I'm referring to PS3 hardware, not individual software units.

[Bee]

Guitar Hero 3...I think it will sell well, which obviates the discussion about whether it's any good, but it's basically got three weeks to get established, because once Rock Band comes out, that's an ass-whuppin'.


I read that the guitar that comes with the PS3 GH3 game will not be compatible with the previous ps2 GH games nor with Rock Band. I would think that might hurt sales to some degree.

[SackAttack]

Sounds like I need to see what Folklore, Haze and Uncharted are all about.

Folklore is an RPG where you rip the souls from your enemies once you defeat them. I had a blast playing that at E3.

[SackAttack]

I read that the guitar that comes with the PS3 GH3 game will not be compatible with the previous ps2 GH games nor with Rock Band. I would think that might hurt sales to some degree.

I would be shocked if the PS3 GH3 guitar isn't compatible with the previous PS2 games. Really.

As to whether the PS3 GH3 guitar will work with Rock Band, I don't know. I DO know that the Guitar Hero II axe will work with Rock Band 360, but having used both guitars, I'd rather be jamming on the Rock Band one instead.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Sounds like I need to see what Folklore, Haze and Uncharted are all about.

Folklore is a classic-style RPG. It's already out in Japan and will be to the states in time for the holidays.

Uncharted is Indiana Jones meets Tomb Raider/Prince of Persia gameplay. Action/adventure game that has shown really well at the trade shows.

Haze is a FPS. Currently listed as a PS3 exclusive, though it may come out for the 360 next summer.

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/usermovies/80898.html

[Eaglesfan27]

I certainly agree that none of these games individually will be system sellers. MSG4 in March will be the first one to drive sales. The post was just to illustrate that there are games coming for the PS3 as EF27 had asked what games were incoming.

Actually, I asked what "good games" were coming, since you said a "good" game is coming out "nearly every week for 3 months" for the PS3. I'll stand by my statement that your statement is a HUGE stretch.

[MikeVic]

I heard that the PS3 and 360 were in the closet. And then a baby popped out. And then it smiled at me.

[twothree]

Mercs 2, COD 4, UT3, Lego Star Wars...which of these is not like the others? All four of them are good games, but two of the first three will be multi-platform, and thus at best can blunt the impact of the 360 getting those games this holiday as well. UT3 will actually be a timed PS3 exclusive, if I recall correctly, and so that one is likely to be a big seller. Lego Star Wars is, uh...making an appearance on about its 15th different game system, and is unlikely to be significantly different from its other iterations, excepting possibly that they might stick both games on one disc. Still. Unless they budget-price that one, it'll be cheaper to just pick up both games for PS2 and play 'em that way.

I am glad Mercenaries 2 is also coming out on the PS2, the first one is still fun to play on the PS2 when you feel like blowing stuff up.

I don't plan to get either the XBOX 360 or the PS3 this generation. The Wii plus the DS and my PS2 should last me until the super elite ZBOX 9000+ and the 10TB PS5 hit the shelves. Maybe...

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

FINALLY, Sony is addressing the RAM issues on the PS3. Developers and users have been fussing about this issue for awhile. I believe that the 7th SPU is currently strictly used for XMB and security processing. Sounds like they're going to open it up to be partially used for other processes now in addition to reducing RAM restraints...........

Presently, 64MB of XDR RAM, 32MB of GDDR3 VRAM, and the entire 7th SPU are always reserved for the XMB even during games. Firmware 2.0 will reduce the memory usage to 32MB of XDR and NO GDDR3. XMB will still run on the 7th SPU but the 7th SPU wont be reserved, other things can be run on the SPU besides the XMB.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

I don't plan to get either the XBOX 360 or the PS3 this generation. The Wii plus the DS and my PS2 should last me until the super elite ZBOX 9000+ and the 10TB PS5 hit the shelves. Maybe...

Given that many of the developers think these systems have a lot of room for growth and both systems are taking huge hits on their profitability early on in the console's life, you're likely going to be waiting quite awhile for another generation console. But, you will likely be able to pick one of these systems up for pretty cheap in a year or two if you wait assuming price is a concern.

[twothree]

Given that many of the developers think these systems have a lot of room for growth and both systems are taking huge hits on their profitability early on in the console's life, you're likely going to be waiting quite awhile for another generation console. But, you will likely be able to pick one of these systems up for pretty cheap in a year or two if you wait assuming price is a concern.

Price of the console is not a concern of mine. However, the price of the games is a concern. Currently, the vast majority of my game purchases are on the PS2 at $20 after the game has been out for over a year. For example, God of War II, dropped to $40 recently, but it is not a purchase for me until it hits $20. I do get the occasional game at $50, usually RPGs that won't ever be available, even used for $20, but that is my limit for a new game.

I won't pay $60 for a new game, XBOX360 and PS3. So, with new games on the Wii at most $50, the Wii will be my console for this generation. And, I haven't bought a $50 game for the Wii yet, though I have only bought two games so far. As an example, I am waiting for Paper Mario to fall to $30 or lower before picking up a copy. I know I will want a copy of Metroid Prime 3, but won't pick it up until a major price drop after a year or two has past once it gets released.

I am a Cheap Ass Gamer.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Price of the console is not a concern of mine. However, the price of the games is a concern. Currently, the vast majority of my game purchases are on the PS2 at $20 after the game has been out for over a year. For example, God of War II, dropped to $40 recently, but it is not a purchase for me until it hits $20. I do get the occasional game at $50, usually RPGs that won't ever be available, even used for $20, but that is my limit for a new game.

I won't pay $60 for a new game, XBOX360 and PS3. So, with new games on the Wii at most $50, the Wii will be my console for this generation. And, I haven't bought a $50 game for the Wii yet, though I have only bought two games so far. As an example, I am waiting for Paper Mario to fall to $30 or lower before picking up a copy. I know I will want a copy of Metroid Prime 3, but won't pick it up until a major price drop after a year or two has past once it gets released.

I am a Cheap Ass Gamer.

I've honestly not paid full price for any other game than Resistance in my case. Even on the relatively new PS3, there's still very solid discounted games. NBA2K7 and NHL2K7 are both $30. Several other games are now at the $40-$50 price points. The 360 has a TON of games that are in the $20-30 price range that are not year specific like sports games. The games for both systems usually drop in price quickly. Also, Circuit City has a lot of the new releases on the day of release for $50, which is $10 off the list price.

[twothree]

I've honestly not paid full price for any other game than Resistance in my case. Even on the relatively new PS3, there's still very solid discounted games. NBA2K7 and NHL2K7 are both $30. Several other games are now at the $40-$50 price points. The 360 has a TON of games that are in the $20-30 price range that are not year specific like sports games. The games for both systems usually drop in price quickly. Also, Circuit City has a lot of the new releases on the day of release for $50, which is $10 off the list price.

So far, there has not been a game on the PS3 or XBOX360 (or PSP for that matter) that I have wanted to get at the price that the game was being sold. Every game so far that has had my interest has come out on a console that I already have, and at a lower price. That was why I was glad to see Mercenaries 2 coming out on the PS2. In a year or two I should be able to pick it up for $20.

The closest I have come to buying a PS3 or XBOX360 was when I was considering getting an XBOX360 if Viva Pinata got to $20 after I saw it fall to $30, but then a version (port) was announced for the PC and the DS, so I will probably pick Viva Pinata up if I am still interested in the title (from the bargin bin, of course ;) ) on one of those platforms. One good thing that comes from waiting a year or two for a price drop on a game is that I can see if my interest in playing that game has been maintained.

Waiting a year before buying a game after a price drop also stops me from buying most of the yearly sports games. It is usually only when the new version gets really bad reviews compared to the previous year's version that I end up buying the previous year's version on the cheap. I can't think of the last console sports game I bought. But, I know the first version of Football Manager, made me hunt down and purchase the 03/04 version of Championship Manager. I still haven't purchased any yearly version of Football Manager because they keep getting better each year. I also bought OOTP 6/6.5 when OOTP 2006 came out.

I guess that makes me a patient cheap ass gamer, or just a weird non-impulsive consumer. :)

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

I guess that makes me a patient cheap ass gamer, or just a weird non-impulsive consumer. :)

Nothing wrong with being a Cheap Ass. Hell, I'm a regular CAGcast listener.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Lots of gaming news. Unfortunately, most of it is bad for the companies mentioned.

First, a link to a trailer with Folklore footage for Spleen1015......

http://gamevideos.com/video/id/13971

Next, Take Two now faces pretty severe fraud charges for stock improprieties. This will likely only further fuel the rumor that a deal by Sony to purchase Rockstar could be in the works as Take Two is facing a load of fines and possible breakup of the company.......

http://today.reuters.com/news/articl...AKETWO-SEC.xml

LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - Take-Two Interactive Software Inc. (TTWO.O: Quote, Profile , Research), maker of the "Grand Theft Auto" video game franchise, said on Wednesday it received a Wells notice from the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission indicating that the agency may file charges against the company following an investigation of its past stock options practices.

It was the latest in a string of blows to Take-Two, which earlier this month delayed the release of its most important upcoming title, "Grand Theft Auto IV," and warned it would post a loss for the year. The company is also still reeling from a shareholder coup that ousted its former management earlier this year.

In an SEC filing, Take-Two said the SEC staff informed the company that it plans to seek authority from the Commission to file charges and pursue a civil monetary penalty.

The Wells notice gives Take-Two a final chance to respond to the SEC and convince the agency not to file charges.

In the filing, Take-Two said it expects "to resolve this investigation by means of a settlement rather than a contested litigation of charges ... the 'Wells' call represents a significant step forward towards that resolution."

Take-Two said in April it had received a formal order of investigation from the SEC.

The New York-based company had said a review uncovered a significant number of option grants that were backdated during a period of more than six years to August 2003.

In February, former Take-Two Chief Executive Ryan Brant pleaded guilty to criminal charges over backdating options, becoming the first ex-CEO to do so in recent probes into options irregularities at dozens of U.S. companies.

Take-Two shares closed at $12.60 on Nasdaq.


Three articles about EA, none of which are very flattering to the company. First, EA has been caught doctoring pictures of their upcoming NBA title. Not a terrible shock here as this game has been awful over the past couple of years and they likely haven't done much to improve it.......

http://www.ps3center.net/story-821.html

EA Caught Altering NBA Live PS3 and Xbox 360 Images
by Victor Dangelo on 16/08/2007 Views: 151

EA has been notorious in the past for making their upcoming games look far better than they ever actually could and that appears to be the case again with NBA Live 2008 on the Xbox 360 and PS3.

Wired.com is reporting that EA has been caught tampering with a screenshot for the upcoming NBA Live 2008 release on the Xbox 360 and PS3.

It is no secret that the NBA Live franchise has been a total disaster since moving over to the next-generation as the game sold poorly compared to the NBA 2K franchise for the past two years. NBA Live 2007 performed so poorly that EA did not even bother releasing it on the PS3 when the console launched.

There will likely be absolutely no response from EA Sports on this but it is clear in the screenshot released that a lot of touch-ups were done.

You can see in the picture that EA Sports definitely used some visual add-ins to the screen when you look at the basketball itself as well as the player to the far bottom left corner as he is literally cut in half. You can check out the screenshot below...

Wikipedia has determined that EA staff has been altering the Wiki entry for EA from the corporate headquarters on multiple occasions.......

http://uk.gamespot.com/news/show_blog_entry.php?topic_id=25854397&sid=6176748&tag=latestnews;title;0

And in a move that is ***gasp*** a total shock to the gaming world, EA will be releasing the PS3 version of NHL 08 at 30 frames per second. Developers from other companies have been taking multiple pot-shots at EA, noting that many of the PS3 games run at 60 FPS without any issues, yet a company with a budget as big as EA can't find the means to get it done.

http://www.2khockey.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=17201&st=930

[gstelmack]

I don't really get this logic.......

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=27675

The Epic president is saying that the PS3 version will have more maps on UT3 due to disc size restrictions on the 360. Why can't they just put out a multi-disc release for the 360 that includes those maps? Would that cause too much disc swapping if the user repeatedly played maps on the second disc? Include an option to load the extra maps to the HDD?

http://forums.epicgames.com/showpost.php?p=24968274&postcount=7

[MikeVic]

http://forums.epicgames.com/showpost.php?p=24968274&postcount=7

Yeah, DL content seems like a no-brainer... he doesn't mention the Wii though! Stupid Epic and their stupid games. What do they know! :D

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Yeah, DL content seems like a no-brainer... he doesn't mention the Wii though! Stupid Epic and their stupid games. What do they know! :D

The problem with downloadable content is the HDD size on the 360. The vast majority of the consoles have 20 GB or no HDD space at all. My guess is that they'll phase out that Core system as quickly as possible to push their users towards options that have a HDD and allow that DL content.

[MikeVic]

The problem with downloadable content is the HDD size on the 360. The vast majority of the consoles have 20 GB or no HDD space at all. My guess is that they'll phase out that Core system as quickly as possible to push their users towards options that have a HDD and allow that DL content.

Are there numbers out there that show most 360 users don't have a HDD? I was under the impression everyone bought the Premium... what do they save games on, memory cards??

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Are there numbers out there that show most 360 users don't have a HDD? I was under the impression everyone bought the Premium... what do they save games on, memory cards??

Even the 20 GB HDD is relatively small if you start filling it up with content for a few games. Hence the reason they brought out the Elite. Another good move would be to move to a cheaper price point on the proprietary (sp?) HDD for the 360. If they can get a 80 GB HDD around $100, that would at least allow people to easily upgrade.

Yes, there are memory cards available for the Core users, but they're pretty expensive for what you get.

[MikeVic]

Even the 20 GB HDD is relatively small if you start filling it up with content for a few games. Hence the reason they brought out the Elite. Another good move would be to move to a cheaper price point on the proprietary (sp?) HDD for the 360. If they can get a 80 GB HDD around $100, that would at least allow people to easily upgrade.

Yeesh. How much do the HHDs cost now if 80GB for $100 would be cheaper?

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Yeesh. How much do the HHDs cost now if 80GB for $100 would be cheaper?

I mistyped 80 GB thinking about the new PS3 HDD. The big HDD available for the 360 is a 120 GB version that is used in the Elite machine. It runs in the $170-180 range. That is the one I meant to cite. The problem with the 360 HDD right now is that it's only manufactured by Microsoft. PS3 users can use any 2.5" HDD for their console. With the wealth of competitors, the prices are much cheaper when compared to the Xbox 360 equivalent. MS would help itself quite a bit if it could find a way to reduce the price on their HDD's

[Pumpy Tudors]

I was under the impression that the 120GB HD was put out there so people could download movies and TV shows. I'm pretty sure that the 20GB HD is fine if you're just downloading game content. At least it's been OK for me so far. I still have over 11GB free on my drive.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

I was under the impression that the 120GB HD was put out there so people could download movies and TV shows. I'm pretty sure that the 20GB HD is fine if you're just downloading game content. At least it's been OK for me so far. I still have over 11GB free on my drive.

The original discussion concerned the UT3 maps and mods. If you are UT fan and want to get your hands on a lot of the maps/mods that are going to be available on the PS3 and PC, it's going to take up some space. It won't fill your drive by any means, but it all adds up if you're a gamer that is interested in a lot of different games.

Also, the lack of a HDD on all 360 consoles is hindering the developers somewhat. They have to design for the lowest common denominator.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Just leaked that the PSP 2000 will be released on September 10th and will have a list price of $169.99.

[terpkristin]

Just leaked that the PSP 2000 will be released on September 10th and will have a list price of $169.99.

Just leaked? You've been able to preorder it on Amazon for awhile now.

EIther it in black or 2 different kits. Saw the details at CAG, don't remember them off the top of my head.

Edit to add: I'll be keeping a close eye on this one, as I'm definitely interested. The only reason I haven't pre-ordered yet is that I'd much rather have the silver one (it looks really pretty) but that's only available on Amazon in a kit with Daxter (which I already own) and some Family Guy UMD (which I'm not interested in). Also at amazon you can pre-order the black one and I think a white one with Darth Vader on it and probably some SW game. I guess at this point I'm probably not going to pre-order but if the improvements to the loading time and the button feeling are as good as people are saying, I'll be picking it up (probably trading in my original PSP).


/tk

[dawgfan]

Also, the lack of a HDD on all 360 consoles is hindering the developers somewhat. They have to design for the lowest common denominator.
I dunno - I'd strongly suspect there's a much higher percentage of 360's with hard drives out there than without. If the Core system is a small percentage of the overall 360 install base, then publishers won't feel a huge need to ensure their game will run on the Core. And Microsoft won't really mind either - it provides more incentive for Core buyers to break down and buy a HD (sold at a profit by MS).

[Pumpy Tudors]

Just out of curiosity, does anybody reading this thread personally know anyone who has a Core 360? Anybody?

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Just out of curiosity, does anybody reading this thread personally know anyone who has a Core 360? Anybody?

I know several people that have a 360. Two of them bought the Core version of the system.

[dawgfan]

I'd be curious to hear from anyone in retail what they've seen at their stores as far as 360 Core sales.

The fact that the big chains seem to be dropping the Core also seems like a big signal that the Core is going away, whether it's because they just haven't been selling enough to justify shelf space or if MS is simply discontinuing that SKU - either way, it's yet another signal to me that publishers really don't need to worry too much about designing for the Core specs. They'll have enough of an install base of 360's with hard drives that they can afford to skip the non hard drive customers. Especially considering most publishers are multi-platform and won't want to significantly alter their 360 version from their PS3 version.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Just leaked? You've been able to preorder it on Amazon for awhile now.

EIther it in black or 2 different kits. Saw the details at CAG, don't remember them off the top of my head.

Sorry. Hadn't seen it mentioned anywhere up until now.

[Pumpy Tudors]

I know several people that have a 360. Two of them bought the Core version of the system.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! WELL, THOSE ARE TWO PEOPLE WHO PROBABLY EAT MACARONI AND CHEESE FOR BREAKFAST!!!

(what the hell am I talking about)

[spleen1015]

Just out of curiosity, does anybody reading this thread personally know anyone who has a Core 360? Anybody?

A Core was given away here at work at a 'Town Hall' meeting. The guy who won it stopped and bought a HD on his way home that day.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Pachter really gets fired up about PS3 criticisms in this article. I tend to agree with him that with the big exclusives in the spring, by this time next year, these criticisms won't hold much water, nor will the 360 criticisms assuming the new design fixes the RROD problems...........

http://biz.gamedaily.com/industry/feature/?id=17175

Analysts Debate Impact of 'Poorer' Madden on PS3

Sony's PlayStation 3 may be more powerful than the Xbox 360, but you wouldn't know it from playing Madden 08. UBS analyst Ben Schachter thinks this negative perception is a pretty big deal for Sony's console, while Wedbush Morgan's Michael Pachter believes the issue's been overblown.


Ever since it was revealed that a number of EA Sports' games would run at 30 frames per second (fps) on the PlayStation 3 versus 60 fps on the Xbox 360 the Internet and popular gaming forums have lit up with discussion. Of course, there's no bigger EA Sports title than Madden and the fact that Madden NFL 08 runs at half the speed on Sony's console has rubbed some critics the wrong way.


In fact, USA Today gave the 360 version a 9 out of 10 while the PS3 version was slapped with a 7. "Madden on 360 is fast and fluid, thanks to a sharp jump in frame rate that allows the game to move twice as fast. PS3 owners, unfortunately, are greeted with a Madden that is sluggish in comparison," the paper said in its review. "Action stutters far too often, particularly on injuries, penalties and turnovers. There's also a half-second delay between pressing the hike button and receiving the ball in your hands. Even close-ups between play look dull when lined up against the 360's sleeker cut scenes."


For EA's part, the company attributed the differences to the simple fact that they're still learning about developing for PS3: "In the case of the next-generation consoles, many publishers have been developing titles for the Xbox 360 for over 3 1/2 years while everyone who publishes now for the PlayStation 3 with the exception of Sony has been developing for the PlayStation 3 for only a little over one full year. The differences in the overall knowledge of the hardware is vastly different for both consoles and, as is the case with newer technology, it is very difficult to get it right the first time."


Nevertheless, this kind of negative perception in a big mainstream publication like USA Today could have a bigger negative impact on Sony and the PS3 than we might think and it's another feather in Microsoft's cap, argues UBS analyst Ben Schachter.


"The blogosphere is full of posts highlighting the relatively weaker performance of ERTS's Madden NFL 08 game (released 8/14) on the PS3 vs. the Xbox 360. Such detailed discussions of slow frame rates and performance are not typically considered important by Wall Street. But given Madden's popularity and the volume of this debate, we think this is a more meaningful negative for Sony than investors might realize, as it gives gamers just one more reason not to buy a PS3 this year following the slip of GTA IV. It is a positive for MSFT," stated Schachter.


Wedbush Morgan Securities analyst Michael Pachter disagrees, however.


"Analysts are too quick to criticize," he told GameDaily BIZ. "There are obviously PS3 games that look fantastic (have you played Resistance, Motorstorm, or seen Call of Duty 4?). It's not an issue with the PS3, notwithstanding what EA said. It's an issue with how they built Madden for the PS3. Remember, EA doesn't have much experience on the PS3 (NOBODY does, except Sony). From what I can tell, the frame rates for NCAA Football and Take-Two's All-Pro Football were equally slow, and nobody complained about them. Eventually (as in next year), EA will figure it out, and nobody will care.


"In the meantime, analysts who are quick to criticize will run around like chicken little claiming that the sky is falling, and journalists who are quick to criticize will print their opinions without checking with me first," Pachter quipped.


He added that his analyst colleagues might be better off focusing elsewhere: "The PS3 is a fantastic console, and anyone who has one knows it's awesome. The Xbox 360 is also fantastic, but has no Blu-ray playback, and has been plagued with warranty issues. One would think that stupid analysts would be writing about the 360 warranty issue, and how people will avoid that box until they can be assured that they won't see the 'three red rings of death.' I love my PS3 (and love my 360), and can't wait to watch 300 in 1080p."

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Worldwide weekly sales for week ending August 12th. PS2 finally starting to show weakness as PS3 sales close in. 360 closed the gap between it and the PS3 with a sales bump of about 18K/week in North America due to price drop..........

DS......438500
Wii.......249225
PSP........125133
PS2.........100953
PS3..........94431
Xbox 360........80480

[Philliesfan980]

Is anyone seeing the wii in stock on a regular basis at any major retailer yet? I'm in the greater Philadelphia area, and I'm not having much luck walking in a store and finding them. Does anyone think this will hurt the wii overall? At this point, I'm pretty fustrated and about ready to just say screw it.

[WVUFAN]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! WELL, THOSE ARE TWO PEOPLE WHO PROBABLY EAT MACARONI AND CHEESE FOR BREAKFAST!!!

(what the hell am I talking about)

I eat Mac and Cheese for breakfast ....

I love me some Mac and Cheese in the mornin'!!!

[Eaglesfan27]

EA says due to a higher install base, they are prioritizing development on the 360 over the PS3.

http://www.gamespot.com/news/show_blog_entry.php?topic_id=25857329&sid=6176890&action=convert&om_clk=latestnews&tag=latestnews;title;2

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

EA says due to a higher install base, they are prioritizing development on the 360 over the PS3.

http://www.gamespot.com/news/show_blog_entry.php?topic_id=25857329&sid=6176890&action=convert&om_clk=latestnews&tag=latestnews;title;2

Actually, that's not what it says......

Richtel revisited the topic after hearing back from EA about the issue. A representative with the publisher told the writer that as a release date nears, the company sometimes readjusts the manpower on the projects to complete the Xbox 360 version first.

He's saying that as a release nears for games, they adjust resources towards the larger installed base. So while that might be the case for this year, if figures change, they could easily switch over to other systems as well. Also, this bias hasn't come into play thus far on any of their releases. All PS3 games have got out on time. It also doesn't have much to do with the frame rate issue. A shift of some resources in the last few weeks isn't going to affect a project to that extent. The PS3 version would have come out with 30 FPS either way because they didn't do their homework early on in development.

Your comment seemed to indicate a consistant production bias towards the 360 going forward. That's simply not the case. Had you added 'for this year' to the end of your statement, it would have been accurate. I'm not sure why this is even news to be honest. Seems to be a 'duh' statement by EA, but that doesn't surprise me coming from them.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Is anyone seeing the wii in stock on a regular basis at any major retailer yet? I'm in the greater Philadelphia area, and I'm not having much luck walking in a store and finding them. Does anyone think this will hurt the wii overall? At this point, I'm pretty fustrated and about ready to just say screw it.

The east coast really seems to be getting hosed on supply. Wal-mart, Best Buy, Target, and Circuit City all have Wii's as of yesterday here and were supposed to get more today (Sunday).

[Eaglesfan27]

Actually, this clearly sounds like they are prioritizing the 360:

Richtel revisited the topic (http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/08/16/sony-v-microsoft-with-helmets-the-sequel/) after hearing back from EA about the issue. A representative with the publisher told the writer that as a release date nears, the company sometimes readjusts the manpower on the projects to complete the Xbox 360 version first.


With a larger installed base for Microsoft's console, the rep said it makes financial sense to get that version of a game out first and maximize potential sales. The representative also noted that in the last generation, it made more sense for the publisher to focus on PlayStation 2 versions of games over those on the Xbox because of the platform's massive installed user base.



If focusing on completing a 360 version of a game first isn't prioriitizing, I don't know what you would call it. Also, even if the PS3 outsold the 360 in July, it wasn't by nearly enough of a margin to change the huge lead that the 360 has on the PS3, anytime soon (at that pace it would take well over 10 years - based on the projected numbers for July)

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Actually, this clearly sounds like they are prioritizing the 360:

Richtel revisited the topic (http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/08/16/sony-v-microsoft-with-helmets-the-sequel/) after hearing back from EA about the issue. A representative with the publisher told the writer that as a release date nears, the company sometimes readjusts the manpower on the projects to complete the Xbox 360 version first.


With a larger installed base for Microsoft's console, the rep said it makes financial sense to get that version of a game out first and maximize potential sales. The representative also noted that in the last generation, it made more sense for the publisher to focus on PlayStation 2 versions of games over those on the Xbox because of the platform's massive installed user base.



If focusing on completing a 360 version of a game first isn't prioriitizing, I don't know what you would call it. Also, even if the PS3 outsold the 360 in July, it wasn't by nearly enough of a margin to change the huge lead that the 360 has on the PS3, anytime soon (at that pace it would take well over 10 years - based on the projected numbers for July)

Agreed, you said exactly what I said. The preference depends on the assumption that the 360 will maintain its lead.

Also, it should be noted that EA has turned in one of its worst years ever from a unit sales perspective in several years. Between being dumb enough to admit that the Wii, PS3, PS2, DS, and PSP games were not the priority and putting out games that have many of the same problems as past games in addition to new problem, EA is digging an awfully big hole for themselves. Peter Moore got booted for quality issues from another company. He would seem to be the last one to pick to right the ship we know as EA. But no one ever accused EA of making moves to actually improve their products.

[Eaglesfan27]

I agree that EA has been taking hits, but they are still a big dog in the business and if they are saying this publicly, it is not good for Sony. Also, you know other companies are doing the same, and that perception is going to filter to the gaming public.

[TonyR]

Yet another reason why the 360 will be my next gen console of purchase.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

I agree that EA has been taking hits, but they are still a big dog in the business and if they are saying this publicly, it is not good for Sony. Also, you know other companies are doing the same, and that perception is going to filter to the gaming public.

As many companies that are saying they favor the 360, there are just as many companies coming out saying that they favor the PS3 for their development. I personally believe that a fanboy-type war is currently underway amongst developers. The weakness that EA has shown in recent development has opened up a huge can of worms where developers are now lining themselves up just to say 'EA can't do it because they don't bother'. It's providing a great firefight right now. I think over the long run that it's certainly going to help the other developers. EA has become the evil empire and their many missteps are providing a wide open door for their competitors.

[Eaglesfan27]

Microsoft has announced a price cut on all 360 models for the UK and Europe, starting this Friday:

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6176901.html?action=convert&om_clk=latestnews&tag=latestnews;title;2


The pro edition will drop 30 pounds to 249. The Core will drop 20 pounds to 179, and the Elite will be available at 299 pounds. In Europe, the Pro console will be cut to 349.99 euros, and the Core will be reduced to 279.99 euros.

[stevew]

The east coast really seems to be getting hosed on supply. Wal-mart, Best Buy, Target, and Circuit City all have Wii's as of yesterday here and were supposed to get more today (Sunday).

I've seen a lot more Wii's lately. Wal Mart, for instance, doesn't seem to be holding them anymore for special sales, so they just get put out as part of the evening replentishment.

[Butter]

Can't believe you guys aren't sick of talking about this yet.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Microsoft has announced a price cut on all 360 models for the UK and Europe, starting this Friday:

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6176901.html?action=convert&om_clk=latestnews&tag=latestnews;title;2


The pro edition will drop 30 pounds to 249. The Core will drop 20 pounds to 179, and the Elite will be available at 299 pounds. In Europe, the Pro console will be cut to 349.99 euros, and the Core will be reduced to 279.99 euros.

It was just a matter of who pulled the trigger first. Sony's supposed to announce a price cut at the Leipzig Game Convention most likely on Wednesday for the EU region. It's supposed to be in the 17-20% range.

Also, they're supposed to announce another new bundle with the 80 GB unit that will include Formula 1 Racing and Heavenly Sword. I'm not sure I believe the Heavenly Sword part until I see it. It's received huge scores in early reviews. I'm not sure why they'd put this big of a game in a bundle unless they really expect it to move a lot of consoles by doing that.

Also noticed that Bill Harris finally took the plunge and purchased the 60 GB PS3 for $365 shipped. Also did some head-to-head analysis on noise levels of various consoles. He also mentioned that the new 360's with HDMI do not have the 65 nm chips in them.

http://dubiousquality.blogspot.com/2007/08/console-post-of-week-homebrew.html

[John Galt]

I admit I haven't read this thread or the related threads in the entirety, but I saw this while trying to set up my projector and thought it might be of interest to people in this endless debate. It doesn't have to do the xbox360 or the PS3, but seems to be in important development in the battle between Blu-Ray and HD-DVD.

http://projectorcentral.com/paramount_dreamworks.htm

Paramount Pictures and Dreamworks Animation announced this morning that they will henceforth support the new generation HD DVD format exclusively on a worldwide basis. These are the first two major studios to drop support of the competing Blu-ray format. Until now, most of their HD discs were being released in both HD DVD and Blu-ray, including the Mission: Impossible collection, The Untouchables, Tomb Raider, U2 Rattle and Hum, and others.

This announcement represents a significant shift in momentum in favor of HD DVD, as Paramount and Dreamworks join Universal Studios in declaring exclusive support of HD DVD. The text of the official press release follows ....

[wade moore]

I admit I haven't read this thread or the related threads in the entirety, but I saw this while trying to set up my projector and thought it might be of interest to people in this endless debate. It doesn't have to do the xbox360 or the PS3, but seems to be in important development in the battle between Blu-Ray and HD-DVD.

http://projectorcentral.com/paramount_dreamworks.htm

Paramount Pictures and Dreamworks Animation announced this morning that they will henceforth support the new generation HD DVD format exclusively on a worldwide basis. These are the first two major studios to drop support of the competing Blu-ray format. Until now, most of their HD discs were being released in both HD DVD and Blu-ray, including the Mission: Impossible collection, The Untouchables, Tomb Raider, U2 Rattle and Hum, and others.

This announcement represents a significant shift in momentum in favor of HD DVD, as Paramount and Dreamworks join Universal Studios in declaring exclusive support of HD DVD. The text of the official press release follows ....

Don't tell M-B-B-F!

[MikeVic]

I admit I haven't read this thread or the related threads in the entirety, but I saw this while trying to set up my projector and thought it might be of interest to people in this endless debate. It doesn't have to do the xbox360 or the PS3, but seems to be in important development in the battle between Blu-Ray and HD-DVD.

http://projectorcentral.com/paramount_dreamworks.htm

Paramount Pictures and Dreamworks Animation announced this morning that they will henceforth support the new generation HD DVD format exclusively on a worldwide basis. These are the first two major studios to drop support of the competing Blu-ray format. Until now, most of their HD discs were being released in both HD DVD and Blu-ray, including the Mission: Impossible collection, The Untouchables, Tomb Raider, U2 Rattle and Hum, and others.

This announcement represents a significant shift in momentum in favor of HD DVD, as Paramount and Dreamworks join Universal Studios in declaring exclusive support of HD DVD. The text of the official press release follows ....

Does anyone have a comparison of the two formats? I'm curious as to which is "better technologically." Wasn't the last war (Beta vs VHS) one in which Beta was superior in technology AND smaller, but VHS somehow won?

[Synovia]

I've seen a lot more Wii's lately. Wal Mart, for instance, doesn't seem to be holding them anymore for special sales, so they just get put out as part of the evening replentishment.

Was in both walmart and target near me this weekend. Neither had any Wiis. 360s and PS3s everywhere though.

<br><br>
As to the blueray/hddvd thing, that sucks ass. Blu-ray is a MUCH better format (from a technological standard) but I suppose history repeats itself, as beta was a nicer format than vhs.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

I admit I haven't read this thread or the related threads in the entirety, but I saw this while trying to set up my projector and thought it might be of interest to people in this endless debate. It doesn't have to do the xbox360 or the PS3, but seems to be in important development in the battle between Blu-Ray and HD-DVD.

http://projectorcentral.com/paramount_dreamworks.htm

Paramount Pictures and Dreamworks Animation announced this morning that they will henceforth support the new generation HD DVD format exclusively on a worldwide basis. These are the first two major studios to drop support of the competing Blu-ray format. Until now, most of their HD discs were being released in both HD DVD and Blu-ray, including the Mission: Impossible collection, The Untouchables, Tomb Raider, U2 Rattle and Hum, and others.

This announcement represents a significant shift in momentum in favor of HD DVD, as Paramount and Dreamworks join Universal Studios in declaring exclusive support of HD DVD. The text of the official press release follows ....

There's some interesting oddities in this deal. First, it's rumored that Toshiba ponied up $150M for this deal and that it may be a contract that lasts a given period of time with the opportunity for a re-up in the future. Also, not all of Paramount's titles will be HD-DVD only. It appears that most of the Spielberg movies will still be on Blu-ray as well. I didn't post this sooner because the specifics on this deal are still a bit sketchy at this point. No one is totally sure which titles this affects.

I do know that Paramount is taking major backlash today from a lot of websites and consumer groups. This appears to do little more that prolong the format war, which obviously isn't good from a consumer perspective.

[John Galt]

Does anyone have a comparison of the two formats? I'm curious as to which is "better technologically." Wasn't the last war (Beta vs VHS) one in which Beta was superior in technology AND smaller, but VHS somehow won?

As far as I know, there isn't a clear winner here. One of the problems is that both technologies are still developing. In terms of capacity, the better technology isn't totally clear because each one has different projected capabilities for layering (adding more capacity). Of course, I haven't been following the technology updates in the last 3 months, so maybe there has been some revolution I have missed. While I'm an early adopter for some technologies, I'm definitely sitting this one out until a winner is chosen.

[BrianD]

Does anyone have a comparison of the two formats? I'm curious as to which is "better technologically." Wasn't the last war (Beta vs VHS) one in which Beta was superior in technology AND smaller, but VHS somehow won?

This is going to be a gross over generalization, but doesn't Sony generally come out with a technically superior product that often doesn't catch on with the less tech-savvy public? Seems like their Betamax and Mini-CD products did the same thing. Clearly they have winning products as well, but it seems like they often stretch father than consumers are willing to go.

I'm really surprised the ease/cost of manufacturing HD DVDs didn't give them a larger head start.

[Synovia]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray#Blu-ray_Disc_.2F_HD_DVD_comparison

Theres a short one.

The major issue is that Blu-Ray can hold 25gb per layer, HD-DVD can do 15GB. BUT, HD-DVD can only have 2 layers. Blu-Ray can have up to 16, IIRC.

[gstelmack]

One issue with Blu-Ray is that the early players did not support all the scripting technologies some of the movie houses wanted, while it was a requirement from Day One for HD-DVD. From a user point-of-view, the format of the actual discs is a wash either way, but this is a huge usability / software issue.

[Synovia]

. From a user point-of-view, the format of the actual discs is a wash either way,
Not really, theres a huge difference in a 30gb disk and a 400gb disk, as far as possible resolutions and content goes.

[Arles]

If people are waiting for a clear winner, they will probably be without a high definition media player for another 3-4 years. There's really no onus for the public to "decide" on a clear winner like in the VHS days because of the numerous other options (DVR/Tivo, download only, regular DVD with upconversion). Only when high-grade HDTVs become commonplace will this issue even become relevant (and by that time the download/DVR options may make it moot).

The best thing people can do is decide if HD movie playing is important. If it is, look for a good deal on either brand or look for usability options. For me, blockbuster carrying only Blu-Ray in stores was a big bonus as I am not in favor of plunking down $20-40 for every movie purchase. For others, they may find an HD-DVD player for $200 on special and that's their choice. In the end, though, I am just as happy using my DVR to record an HD movie/show as I am renting/buying Blu_ray (and probably prefer the former because of simiplicity/cost). Plus, I don't notice an enormous difference between the upconverted HDMI normal DVD and the Blu-Ray on most movies.

[John Galt]

Not really, theres a huge difference in a 30gb disk and a 400gb disk, as far as possible resolutions and content goes.

Resolution probably won't matter beyond 1080p because then formats will probably change and it won't be HD-DVD v. Blu-Ray. Content should matter, but may not (a lot of extras suck). But as I mentioned, the Blu-Ray advantage in this regard is still hypothetical since they are only issuing single-layer disks (and no one seems to be sure they will be able to do more layers and have it be backward-compatible).

[gstelmack]

Not really, theres a huge difference in a 30gb disk and a 400gb disk, as far as possible resolutions and content goes.

The only content you are going to put on a 400 GB disc that you won't on a 30 GB disc for the forseeable future is something like a trilogy on a single disc instead of 3 or somesuch nonsense.

Heck, HD-DVD is putting the HD on one side and the regular on the other as-is. They can put 2 movies on one disc if they wanted to.

The actual usefulness of your theoretical 16-layer disc, without even discussing possible production costs and hassles, is extremely debatable.

HD-DVD's other big tech advantage was not requiring retooling of burning facilities. It was able to use DVD burning facilities at minimal cost compared to Blu-Ray.

The end consumer isn't going to notice one whit of difference between the two formats.

[Calis]

I kind of get the feeling that neither format will be the winner. I think by the time one comes close to being the clearcut winner something else better will come along and replace both of them.

I hope this is the case also, not a fan of the dueling format crap.

[gstelmack]

Why isn't there room for two formats as well? Remember that during the VHS/Beta wars, not that many people were buying. Tapes were like $80+ as well. That war had been settled long before we bought our first VCR.

Now, the movies themselves are around $25 each, the players are down around $300, and both can sell more than enough to make supporting the format profitable.

Either that, or they'll both die once someone comes out with a good Internet distribution model that lets me watch the movie outside the first 24 hour window...

[dawgfan]

I've suggested for a while that with the continuing mainstreaming of broadband internet access that downloaded HD movie files stand a decent chance of trumping both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray as the HD movie content access choice.

The real battle if that happens is which of those 2 media becomes the preferred method of read/write storage/backup for all the media you download. Or will it even be necessary? The continuing drop in the price of hard disks may mean that more and more people save their files and backups on hard drives and use temporary internet storage to transfer files to other locations.

The best hope for both Blu-Ray and HD-DVD is for players that can read both formats coming down in price - I really have no interest in having to buy both a Blu-Ray player and an HD-DVD player to access the various exclusive movies.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Looks like I found the smoking gun that I thought might be there in regards to Paramount. It's being reported that the $150M that Toshiba paid Paramount to switch sides is only an 18 month deal. So Paramount can take the money, switch over for 18 months, and then reassess and switch back to dual format assuming Blu-ray continues to sell well.

The other thing that seems to make sense is that Toshiba had to pay this much to make it worth it for Paramount. 70% of Paramount's HD-movie sales were on Blu-ray, so they had to pay this much to make up for the movie short-fall that they're going to have over the next year and a half. Also, the deal didn't include the Spielberg movies. Spielberg reportedly didn't want any part of this deal and wouldn't allow it to go through if his movies were part of the deal. Also, any future Spielberg movies will also be dual format.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

More HD media news......

Multiple websites, including IGN, are now reporting that Universal is seriously concerned about HD-DVD and is considering a move to be a dual format provider. Universal is the one studio that has allowed HD-DVD to stay somewhat competitive. Losing them would be a big media hit.

Also, looks like Paramount just cost themselves a cash cow 'Transformers' sequel because of their decision. Post from Michael Bay on his official website..........

http://www.shootfortheedit.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2299&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

"I want people to see my movies in the best formats possible. For them to deny people who have Blu-ray sucks! They were progressive by having two formats. No Transformers 2 for me!"

[spleen1015]

It's not going to cost them Transformers 2. It is going to cost them Michael Bay from the sounds of it.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

It's not going to cost them Transformers 2. It is going to cost them Michael Bay from the sounds of it.

Yeah, but there's a long boneyard of sequels that were created by a director different than the original that fell flat on their face. I agree with you that they will likely try it, but past efforts in similar situations have produced mixed results as best.

[albionmoonlight]

An inanimate carbon rod could direct Transformers 2 and it would still make $200,000,000. It might not be a good movie, but that has very little to do with whether it will be a cash cow.

Not that Bay won't direct it. Something tells me that, when push comes to shove, his passion for big fat paychecks outweighs his passion for DVD format wars.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

An inanimate carbon rod could direct Transformers 2 and it would still make $200,000,000. It might not be a good movie, but that has very little to do with whether it will be a cash cow.

Not that Bay won't direct it. Something tells me that, when push comes to shove, his passion for big fat paychecks outweighs his passion for DVD format wars.

I need my vision checked. I read the first part of that post as "inmate carbon rod" and wondered why someone would ever put a carbon rod in a prison.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

First game announcements from Leipzig Gaming Convention starting to trickle in.

Lots of people liked the original game. Mafia 2 announced for PS3/360/PC. Some really nice screenshots, though they are likely photoshopped to some extent.......

http://www.2kgames.com/mafia2/

[Bee]

I admit I haven't read this thread or the related threads in the entirety, but I saw this while trying to set up my projector and thought it might be of interest to people in this endless debate. It doesn't have to do the xbox360 or the PS3, but seems to be in important development in the battle between Blu-Ray and HD-DVD.

http://projectorcentral.com/paramount_dreamworks.htm

Paramount Pictures and Dreamworks Animation announced this morning that they will henceforth support the new generation HD DVD format exclusively on a worldwide basis. These are the first two major studios to drop support of the competing Blu-ray format. Until now, most of their HD discs were being released in both HD DVD and Blu-ray, including the Mission: Impossible collection, The Untouchables, Tomb Raider, U2 Rattle and Hum, and others.

This announcement represents a significant shift in momentum in favor of HD DVD, as Paramount and Dreamworks join Universal Studios in declaring exclusive support of HD DVD. The text of the official press release follows ....

When I first read this I thought "Huge blow to Blu-ray", but now that I've thought about it I don't know if it's really going to make much difference. IMO, the reason that blu-ray has been pulling away is because of the PS3. I don't think most people are saying "I want HD movies so I'm going out and buying a HD-DVD player or a blu-ray player"...I think most people are saying "I bought a PS3 and maybe I'll go out and grab a couple of those new HD movies to check them out". If the first were true, this would have a lot of impact IMO, but if it's the latter then it just means the ps3 users will be a little disappointed in the selection. I don't see this leading to a significant change in sales for either format under the current market conditions. Now if the HD-DVD companies can put out a player for around $100 or something then this might have an impact.

[stevew]

I don't know how feasible low cost(100-150 range) HDDVD players would be, but they would definitely sell at that range. Another problem, IMO, is that Toshiba really doesn't make HTIB's. If they did, then they could make HDDVD HTIB's, which would be an attractive option. Sony, Samsung, and panasonic all seem to be on the Blu Ray train at the moment.

Looking back on it, Toshiba really screwed this up, as this war should have been an easy transition from the current format.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Now if the HD-DVD companies can put out a player for around $100 or something then this might have an impact.

At this point, HD-DVD base players will be at $199 for the holidays and BR base players will be at $299. With that said, the largest increase in installed base is going to be with the PS3, not stand-alone players on either side.

Also, while the HD-DVD players are the cheaper alternative, the BR movies across the board are actually running about $5 less than their HD-DVD counterparts. Not sure why there's a price difference, but it is there.

[TroyF]

An inanimate carbon rod could direct Transformers 2 and it would still make $200,000,000. It might not be a good movie, but that has very little to do with whether it will be a cash cow.

Not that Bay won't direct it. Something tells me that, when push comes to shove, his passion for big fat paychecks outweighs his passion for DVD format wars.


Exactly right.

I'm with Dawg. This is going down as the most worthless "war" of all time. The winner of the format will still be a loser. People see no need to change from regular DVD now and by the time they do, the multimedia market will be huge. Meanwhile, each will be spending hundred of millions of dollars on exclusive deals trying to win the format war.

[TroyF]

Pachter really gets fired up about PS3 criticisms in this article. I tend to agree with him that with the big exclusives in the spring, by this time next year, these criticisms won't hold much water, nor will the 360 criticisms assuming the new design fixes the RROD problems...........

http://biz.gamedaily.com/industry/feature/?id=17175

Quick comment on this article: It's idiotic.

I think Pachter is either a closet Sony exec or has drank the Kool - Aid they provided him with.

Let's look at some of this:

From what I can tell, the frame rates for NCAA Football and Take-Two's All-Pro Football were equally slow, and nobody complained about them.

BZZZZZZZZ. Wrong. People did complain about both of them. I hate to insult someone, but it takes a first class moron to be involved in the gaming community at all and not know there was concerns and criticisms of the frame rate of those two games.

The PS3 is a fantastic console, and anyone who has one knows it's awesome.

The console itself? Sure. It's solid. But awesome means having games you want to play. The PS3 fails miserably in this regard. Anyone who owns the system understands this. As Xbox 360 owners get ready for a fall season of Bioshock, Mass Effect and Halo 3, PS3 owners are getting ready for a delayed and overhyped Lair.

This issue may go away next year. He could be right on that. But Sony could also get it's ass handed to them bigtime this holiday season which will make them doing nothing but playing catch up for the next 5 years. If this holiday season goes badly for them, they may never catch up to the Wii or the 360. That's a disaster for them.

One would think that stupid analysts would be writing about the 360 warranty issue, and how people will avoid that box until they can be assured that they won't see the 'three red rings of death.

No, one wouldn't think that because MS addressed the issue head on. People know that if they do get the red ring of death, their systems will be repaired for the next 3 years. They know it'll be done free of charge. MS made this a dead issue for a majority of people when they announced the new warranty procedures. It doesn't take away ALL of the negative press, but it's not like analysts have ignored the issues. They just have nothing to write about anymore. The issue has been handled. All of the consumers know what the deal is and they can make their own decisions now.

and can't wait to watch 300 in 1080p

And I can't wait to watch the Bourne Identity, a better movie than 300 in HD-DVD. :rolleyes: That line was a lie, I don't own an HD-DVD and probably never will. I have the Blu Ray with the PS3 and have purchased Planet Earth for it. I doubt I'll purchase anything more for the foreseeable future. It's just asinine for him to yap about how excited he is to watch the 300 in 1080p as if there aren't good movies exclusive the other way.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Bioshock for the PS3 is quickly becoming the worst-kept secret in the video game industry. Someone dug through the demo code and found multiple PS3 references in the development code. Not sure why the developer left it in there, but they might as well just confirm it's coming. My guess is that MS wants them to hold off to avoid losing any sales to people who own a PS3 or are still trying to decide which console to get.

[Console]
;; Console (XBox360, PS3) specific settings

;; StreamingDynamicFloatingLimit:
;; If this is a positive number, then instead of using the fixed per-level
;; limits, the StreamingDynamic resource will use as much memory as is
;; available as long as the total memory allocated by the game is less than
;; the specified number. In other words, StreamingDynamic will grow and
;; shrink to fit to the available memory instead of being locked to a fixed
;; budget
StreamingDynamicFloatingLimit=500

[TroyF]

Bioshock for the PS3 is quickly becoming the worst-kept secret in the video game industry. Someone dug through the demo code and found multiple PS3 references in the development code. Not sure why the developer left it in there, but they might as well just confirm it's coming. My guess is that MS wants them to hold off to avoid losing any sales to people who own a PS3 or are still trying to decide which console to get.

Didn't realize this was ever really a secret. It's a multi platform game with PC/360 to start and there have never been any claims of being exclusive to one system or the other.

The only thing that's for sure is that there will be a severe time release issue for the PS3. Even if it was announced tomorrow that the game would be on the PS3 next April, I'm not sure how many first person shooter fans would hold off. Maybe a few, but a majority? Doubtful.By the time the game hits for the PS3, most FPS fans will have already played it on either the PC or the 360.

[KWhit]

Bioshock for the PS3 is quickly becoming the worst-kept secret in the video game industry. Someone dug through the demo code and found multiple PS3 references in the development code. Not sure why the developer left it in there, but they might as well just confirm it's coming. My guess is that MS wants them to hold off to avoid losing any sales to people who own a PS3 or are still trying to decide which console to get.

Now all of a sudden you post about Bioshock?

[MikeVic]

Well, Bioshock was a system seller for a friend of mine. And another said they are considering it. My potential system seller is Rock Band.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Now all of a sudden you post about Bioshock?

I posted that it likely would be coming to the PS3 a couple of months ago. I was just following that up with more information. There's a separate thread discussing the demo I believe.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Tons of new news coming out of Leipzig.......

Rock Band will not come out in Europe until 2008.

Borderlands developer announces that the Xbox 360 version will require a hard drive to be able to play it. They state that it may create a rift with Microsoft, but there's no other way to get the game to work without a hard drive.

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3162176

ArmA 2 coming for PS3, 360, PC............

Bohemia Interactive announces ARMA 2 (PS3, 360, PC)......

Today at Games Convention in Leipzig, Bohemia Interactive announced ArmA 2, its latest military simulation game for PC DVD-ROM and next generation consoles (originally known also as Game 2).

ArmA 2 is set in the near future, year 2009, in a fictional post soviet country called Chernarus. Players will be sent as members of a United States Marine Corps Force Recon squad to this country to prevent further civilian casualties and ensure ongoing stability there.

Arma 2 is based on the latest generation technology, offering large –scale game world, authentic and extremely detailed modern units, weapons, vehicles and enviroments, challenging single player and vast array of multiplayer options.

ArmA 2 is expected to be released in 2008. Full game website will be available soon at www.arma2.com.

New Blacksite 51 Trailer.......

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/23835.html

New PS3 video of PES 2008, which should do well against FIFA '08.

http://www.insidegamer.nl/playstation3/proevolutionsoccer2008/nieuws/17057/GC-Eerste-beelden-PES-2008-voor-de-PS3.html

In yet another shocker (not really), FIFA '08 for the PS3 and 360 is running at 60 FPS. This comes as no surprise, considering that their main competitor (PES 2008) runs at 60 FPS. If anything, this only furthers the notion that the EA developers were lazy with Madden/NCAA because there was no competition available.

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3162169

Screenshots from a new game, 'The Club'.........

http://www.insidegamer.nl/playstation3/theclub/screenshots/

Video of Operation Flashpoint 2 for the PS3........

http://www.insidegamer.nl/pc/operationflashpoint2dragonrising/nieuws/17056/GC-Eerste-beelden-Operation-Flashpoint-2-Dragon-Rising.html

Hands on of Uncharted: Drake's Fortune for the PS3.........

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/814/814426p1.html

Video of the co-op mode in Haze for the PS3.............

http://media.ps3.ign.com/media/784/784480/vids_1.html

Video of GT5: Prologue for the PS3........

http://www.jeux-france.com/news21453_gc-video-gran-turismo-5-prologue.html

[MikeVic]

Is PES PS3-exclusive?

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Is PES PS3-exclusive?

No, it is for the 360, PS3 and PC. This was the first video released of the PS3 version.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Some news coming out of the ongoing Sony press conference......

-Play TV confirmed for early 2008. Will allow the PS3 to be a single-tuner digital DVR. Initial release will be in PAL territories. Also will allow shows and movies to be loaded directly to the PSP either directly or downloaded remotely.

-EA rep spoke in Sony presentation and has announced that FIFA '08 is the first one of their titles to be developed on the PS3 and will be ported to the 360. This shouldn't be too much of a surprise as this switch-over by EA has been rumored for quite awhile. It also explains why it's running at 60 FPS. Also, there will be a 2008 Interactive World Cup where FIFA '08 users can train and compete over the coming months and 32 finalists will compete in a virtual World Cup next summer. The competition between FIFA '08 and PES 2008 is going to be a good one. It's also great for consumers.

[SackAttack]

Newly announced Rock Band tracks

* Rolling Stones: “Gimme Shelter”
* Deep Purple: "Highway Star"
* The Clash: “Should I Stay or Should I Go”
* Faith No More: "Epic”
* Smashing Pumpkins: “Cherub Rock”
* Radiohead: “Creep”
* Beastie Boys: “Sabotage”
* Jet: “Are You Gonna Be My Girl”
* OK Go: “Here It Goes Again”
* Nine Inch Nails: “The Hand That Feeds”


Newly announced Guitar Hero III tracks (international)

· Minus Celsius (by Backyard Babies)

· Hier Kommt Alex (by Die Toten Hosen)

· In the Belly of a Shark (by Gallows)

· I’m in the Band (by The Hellacopters)

· Avalancha (by Heroes Del Silencio)

· Take This Life (by In Flames)

· Ruby (by Kaiser Chiefs)

· Closer (by Lacuna Coil)

· Generation Rock (by Revolverheld)

· Mauvais Garcon (by NAAST)

· Radio Song (by Superbus)

I must confess I don't quite know what Activision means by international in the press release; are those the songs that will be common to the various European SKUs, or will the track listing be the same globally, but with international music offerings this time around to nod to the various global territories? The press release seemed to imply those'd be in the domestic version, so...

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

I must confess I don't quite know what Activision means by international in the press release; are those the songs that will be common to the various European SKUs, or will the track listing be the same globally, but with international music offerings this time around to nod to the various global territories? The press release seemed to imply those'd be in the domestic version, so...

They announce that there would be Euro-specific tracks on the European game. I don't know how that relates to what you're mentioning, but the versions will have different tracks. I wouldn't be surprised if those location-specific tracks eventually became downloadable in the other regions.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Quickest turn-around ever. This reminds me of when the MSG4 creators stated that PS3 exclusivity was up in the air, only to reconfirm that it was an exclusive in the Sony press conference the very next day. It would appear that Toshiba showed Mr. Bay the HD version of the 'horse head' scene in 'The Godfather' last night after hearing about his initial comments............

***
Michael Bay HD-DVD post
08/21/2007 07:51 PM
Last night at dinner I was having dinner with three Blu-Ray owners, they
were pissed about no Transformers Blu-Ray and I drank the kool aid hook line
and sinker. So at 1:30 in the morning I posted - nothing good ever comes out
of early am posts mind you - I over reacted. I heard where Paramount is
coming from and the future of HD and players that will be close to the $200
mark which is the magic number. I like what I heard.

As a director, I'm all about people seeing films in the best quality
possible, and I saw and heard firsthand people upset about a corporate
decision.

So today I saw 300 on HD-DVD, it rocks!

So I think I might be back on to do Transformers 2!

Michael Bay
***

[Synovia]

what a bitch. Talk about having NO spine

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Looks like someone got video of the new MGS4 trailer.......

http://kotaku.com/gaming/breaking/metal-gear-solid-games-convention-trailer-292179.php?autoplay=true

[Daimyo]

-Play TV confirmed for early 2008. Will allow the PS3 to be a single-tuner digital DVR. Initial release will be in PAL territories. Also will allow shows and movies to be loaded directly to the PSP either directly or downloaded remotely.

Will it record HD? Assuming the interface doesn't suck (big assumption), that plus Blu-ray would make the PS3 a pretty nice purchase at $400 even if you have very little or no interest in gaming...

[Travis]

Will it record HD? Assuming the interface doesn't suck (big assumption), that plus Blu-ray would make the PS3 a pretty nice purchase at $400 even if you have very little or no interest in gaming...

From Blu-Ray.com

Sony Computer Entertainment has announced PlayTV, a device that, when coupled with a PS3, turns the machine into a full digital video recorder (DVR). The device, which currently doesn't have a price or release date, will feature two high definition TV tuners that will allow users to record and/or watch two separate HD video streams on their PS3s.

The add-on will of course make use of the PSP connectivity by allowing users to record HD or SD shows on their PS3s, and then watch them on their PSPs. And because PlayTV is part of the PlayStation 3 family, it will be fully upgradeable with new features through PlayStation Network.

The best high definition media device just got better.

Edit to note that this article mentions two tuners rather than just one, and all opinions contained in the article are definitely that of the author's ;) I do think this has the potential to be a very nice addon, and assuming that I'm reading this correctly and that you'll be able to download firmware updates through the ps3 for it, another check mark in their favor assuming (big assumption) that it doesn't come out riddled with issues.

[MikeVic]

I wonder how much with PlayTV thing will cost? $200? $100? $50?

[Eaglesfan27]

Bioshock for the PS3 is quickly becoming the worst-kept secret in the video game industry. Someone dug through the demo code and found multiple PS3 references in the development code. Not sure why the developer left it in there, but they might as well just confirm it's coming. My guess is that MS wants them to hold off to avoid losing any sales to people who own a PS3 or are still trying to decide which console to get.


Actually, the developers have already shot this down. The code was developed on the unreal engine and that code has references to the PS3. Maybe this is just them covering their asses, until they are allowed to announce a PS3 version, but this "evidence" has already been shot down. I'm willing to bet that if MS has the developers holding off on announcing a PS3 version until after Christmas that this game will be part of the reason for a nice boost to 360 sales.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Actually, the developers have already shot this down. The code was developed on the unreal engine and that code has references to the PS3. Maybe this is just them covering their asses, until they are allowed to announce a PS3 version, but this "evidence" has already been shot down. I'm willing to bet that if MS has the developers holding off on announcing a PS3 version until after Christmas that this game will be part of the reason for a nice boost to 360 sales.

I don't think there's any question that they're covering their a$$ on this. With that said, it won't come out until next spring at the very earliest. It's a very good game and will help the 360 without a doubt. I spoke to someone who had preview/review copies of both Halo 3 and Bioshock and they said that Halo 3 may sell more games due to name alone, but that he had no doubt that Bioshock was the better game.

[Eaglesfan27]

This hasn't been confirmed, but is a rumor on the features being added to the 360 in the fall. IPTV should be a huge addition:




Compatibility with 3rd party wireless controllers
Compatibility with messenger pad
Xbox Live Vision firmware upgrade, sharper image filtering
Many more Vision Cam settings
New screensaver settings - when away from Xbox 360, screensaver will play for optional time, before screen goes dark
New Xbox Live Arcade blade - where you can download, play and learn about Xbox Live Arcade
Brand new “web based adver-games” flash games which aren’t downloaded, but are playable bite sized games, accessed via new Xbox Live Arcade Blade
New Screensaver option in Themes and Gamer Pics option in Marketplace blade
New functionality with Messenger, works with chatpad
New XNA Game Launcher for those that have the program, new options
New language, time and date settings
New “advertising opportunities” in gameplay
Xvid support
New “favourites” option via Xbox Live Arcade, can rate according to preference
IPTV Functionality - support for TiVo like PVR options. Will be able to record TV direct. Options include source by channel, director, actor and distributor
Filter friends list, will be able to filter friends via games
New clan support - will be able to launch clan games direct from dashboard, can “fold” friends into new clan category in friends list
Better translations in settings and other options for Japanese, German and Spanish languages
New quick option to delete via X Button in memory viewer.
Option for having downloadable In-game content not inform when completed download
Option for having video content not inform when completed download
Faster settings for viewing unfinished video content downloads
New option in Games tab - beta and others, will be launcher for MMO and multiplayer betas
New option in Marketplace Games tab, search by letter, can be inputted via text pad or console
Smarter game settings - you can be messaged via publishers about new in-game content for your games
Picture in picture functionality for DVD Drive and some other updated settings
Improved USB Keyboard settings
Improved voice chat settings in game and from dashboard
Faster response times to Redeem Code settings
Option to play a Redeemed Code game straight after redeeming code
Console will now recognise low Hard Drive space, will inform you immediately if can’t download current item, will automatically download next available that is able.
Increased space size for gamerpics and dashboard themes
Themes can now be animated
Themes may now have sound effects
Better slideshow capabilities, new options added. New sound effects and integration with Hard Drive/ PC music capable.
New estimated timer for downloads, informing how long download will expect to take

[TroyF]

I like that last one. I hope the estimated timer is like it is for Windows.

30 minutes, 4 hours, 10 minutes, 2 hours 30 minutes, DONE.

Woo hoo.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

I like that last one. I hope the estimated timer is like it is for Windows.

30 minutes, 4 hours, 10 minutes, 2 hours 30 minutes, DONE.

Woo hoo.

LOL......nice. It sometimes feels like a warped game watching those estimates bounce all over the place.

[MikeVic]

So you could use a 360 as a PVR for free, while you have to purchase something extra for the PS3 to get the same functionality? Am I reading this correctly?

[Eaglesfan27]

So you could use a 360 as a PVR for free, while you have to purchase something extra for the PS3 to get the same functionality? Am I reading this correctly?

Yes, that is my understanding as well. To be fair, you'll probably want to buy a bigger harddrive for the 360 if you are going to record any significant amount of TV or buy a 360 that comes with the bigger harddrive.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Yes, that is my understanding as well. To be fair, you'll probably want to buy a bigger harddrive for the 360 if you are going to record any significant amount of TV or buy a 360 that comes with the bigger harddrive.

I think I would likely pick up a bigger HDD for my PS3 as well if I decided to use it as a PVR. The HDD's on the PS3 are obviously cheaper than the 360 counterparts, so it all evens out if you have to get a tuner. I wouldn't think the tuner would cost all that much given that the technology is readily available and isn't all that expensive anymore. It's still going to be a MUCH cheaper option than a stand-alone HD PVR.

[MJ4H]

No, it is for the 360, PS3 and PC. This was the first video released of the PS3 version.

PES for Wii in Q1 2008 with Wii specific features, too.

[Eaglesfan27]

Guys on OS pointed this out and sure enough I just checked my box. The Bioshock box says right on the front that the game is only on the PC and 360. It doesn't have a disclaimer that says "right now" or any other sort. Therefore, I seriously doubt Bioshock will ever come to the PS3. It was originally slated for the PS3 (before MS reportedly gave 2k a large sum of money to support development) in 06 which might also explain that bit of code being left in which fueled this rumor.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Guys on OS pointed this out and sure enough I just checked my box. The Bioshock box says right on the front that the game is only on the PC and 360. It doesn't have a disclaimer that says "right now" or any other sort. Therefore, I seriously doubt Bioshock will ever come to the PS3. It was originally slated for the PS3 (before MS reportedly gave 2k a large sum of money to support development) in 06 which might also explain that bit of code being left in which fueled this rumor.

When the developers were asked about it, they gave the 'we just want to concentrate on the current development platforms' answer without any absolute denial. Certainly not confirmation, but definitely not denial either. I'd be floored if this game wasn't out for the PS3 by the holidays next year, if not sooner. Time will tell.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

PES for Wii in Q1 2008 with Wii specific features, too.

The Madden release this year showed just how little interest there is in third party games for the Wii that are available on the PS3/360 as well. No one outside of people that own only the Wii are going to buy that game. But it is nice for the Wii-only owners.

[sterlingice]

The Madden release this year showed just how little interest there is in third party games for the Wii that are available on the PS3/360 as well. No one outside of people that own only the Wii are going to buy that game. But it is nice for the Wii-only owners.

Madden hasn't ever sold well on a Nintendo console. Ever. Go find me a game that's not a sports game that's cross platform and make a valid comparison. There are some out there and they will prove your point much more than that glorified $50 roster update a lot of idiots buy every year.

The bigger problem for the Wii is that some companies will half-ass their port over to the Wii and then, in a moment of self-fulfilling prophecy, mention how it didn't sell. That's what Nintendo really needs to address.

SI

[Big Fo]

2k Sports are also bringing a Top Spin game to Wii, developers are finally starting to get with the program. I'm desperate for a fully-fledged proper tennis game.

Good news also about PES so Wii owners have another choice in addition to the average FIFA games, but personally I think PES is one of those games that needs a lot of buttons. Unless they surprise me with the controls I would hope for Wavebird/classic controller options. Motion controls are superior for sports like tennis, golf, baseball etc. but I'll see it when I believe it for soccer.

If next-gen PES is a slam dunk this year unlike last year's 360 version that'd be the only reason for me to buy a PS3 before 2008. PES is one of my favorite series.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Madden hasn't ever sold well on a Nintendo console. Ever. Go find me a game that's not a sports game that's cross platform and make a valid comparison. There are some out there and they will prove your point much more than that glorified $50 roster update a lot of idiots buy every year.

The bigger problem for the Wii is that some companies will half-ass their port over to the Wii and then, in a moment of self-fulfilling prophecy, mention how it didn't sell. That's what Nintendo really needs to address.

SI

Top Spin and the Brunswick Bowling game are both multi-platform and will sell very well. The vast majority of the major sports aren't made for Wii-style game play and are going to fail miserably. Golf is the other sport that could do well on the Wii if done well.

[TroyF]

Top Spin and the Brunswick Bowling game are both multi-platform and will sell very well. The vast majority of the major sports aren't made for Wii-style game play and are going to fail miserably. Golf is the other sport that could do well on the Wii if done well.

With an install base of over 10 million units that continues to grow daily, there are plenty of sports that could sell on the Wii if done well. Hell, any game could sell well on it if it was done right. The 360/PS3 are going to get the vast majority of the development time from the big companies for sports games. That leaves the door wide open for different companies with fresh ideas to create some games for the Wii.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

With an install base of over 10 million units that continues to grow daily, there are plenty of sports that could sell on the Wii if done well. Hell, any game could sell well on it if it was done right. The 360/PS3 are going to get the vast majority of the development time from the big companies for sports games. That leaves the door wide open for different companies with fresh ideas to create some games for the Wii.

I think that developers need to think 'outside the box' to really find success on the Wii. Right now, most of the games they're getting are ports that were made to use motion control. Until we start seeing more Wii-specific franchises, that's not going to happen.

Brunswick Bowling and Top Spin are going to be excellent tests to see if third party games developed with the Wii in mind can succeed. If they get bad sales figures, it's a pretty good sign that it's going to be primarily a first-party game console, much like the Gamecube.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Oh, dear Lord. Folklore demo to be released on the PS3 this afternoon. I'm ready for work to be over already. *****drooling*****

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

SCEE chief says no price cuts in PAL territories. More bundles will be offered to increase value of console purchase.

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=28006

[Eaglesfan27]

One of the first Heavenly Sword reviews is out. Keeping in mind that IGN generally inflates scores a bit, it got a 7 out of 10. The main strength is that it's a "gorgeous" game, but they have several significant criticisms of the gameplay and the game only took 6-7 hours to beat. Also, they say it became boring in that 6 to 7 hours. It doesn't sound like it will provide the huge boost to the PS3 that Sony was looking for:

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/815/815031p1.html


Added: Here are the closing remarks:

So, all that in mind, is Heavenly Sword a bad game? No, it’s not – although it certainly seems that someone, somewhere, forgot to ensure they were piling those glorious peripheral trimmings on a game worthy of all that Sony gold. Combat is undoubtedly the title’s strength and offers some immensely satisfying thrills when you actually get your hands on your sword. Projectile combat, too, is entertaining in its own right – although nowhere near enough to carry such lengthy sequences as is demanded here. What you’re paying for then with Heavenly Sword is the grandiose spectacle, the overblown production values and the chance to show just what your PS3’s capable of when given the chance. It’s a benchmark in presentation for console gaming and the lavishness of the show might well be enough for you to overcome the game’s significant failings. There’s definitely some kind of fun to be had here – albeit of the one-engaged brain cell variety – but make no mistake: Heavenly Sword takes the age-old mantra of style over substance and drags it kicking and screaming into the next generation.

[twothree]

July console sales numbers for the United States as reported by NPD...

Wii - 425,000
DS - 405,000
PS2 - 222,000
PSP - 214,000
360 - 170,000
PS3 - 159,000
GBA - 87,000

And, it is still good to be Nintendo. The Wii finally beat the DS in terms of units sold in a month, I believe. At least the 360 and PS3 are still doing better than the GBA. Hee-ho.

Now back to playing some Persona 3 on my PS2.

[twothree]

Source of NPD numbers

http://biz.gamedaily.com/industry/feature/?id=17247

[wade moore]

Every now and then I wonder if Sony would have been better as a business if they just waited a year or two to release a next-gen console.. I mean.. the PS2 is STILL outselling the 360 and PS3? That is so many levels of absurd...

[SackAttack]

July console sales numbers for the United States as reported by NPD...

Wii - 425,000
DS - 405,000
PS2 - 222,000
PSP - 214,000
360 - 170,000
PS3 - 159,000
GBA - 87,000

And, it is still good to be Nintendo. The Wii finally beat the DS in terms of units sold in a month, I believe. At least the 360 and PS3 are still doing better than the GBA. Hee-ho.

Now back to playing some Persona 3 on my PS2.

Isn't it traditional to start a new thread for this kind of thing?

[Big Fo]

3 out of the 4 weeks for the NPD period, the PS3 price drop was in effect. Not being able to pass the 360 this month is a disaster for them, especially when August will have the 360 price drop with Halo 3 following the month after that. The PS3 might get the second spot worldwide but I think it will have a hard time passing XBox 360 in North America. It will take Sony years to get down to $299.

[Eaglesfan27]

3 out of the 4 weeks for the NPD period, the PS3 price drop was in effect. Not being able to pass the 360 this month is a disaster for them, especially when August will have the 360 price drop with Halo 3 following the month after that. The PS3 might get the second spot worldwide but I think it will have a hard time passing XBox 360 in North America. It will take Sony years to get down to $299.

Absolutely. Most of the analysts thought the PS3 would pass the 360 this month due to the price drop boost. With the 360 dropping in price in August, becoming more reliable, and having some more great games coming out this has to be a blow to Sony morale (at least if they are smart enough to realize how bad these numbers look for them ever gaining market share.)

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

One of the first Heavenly Sword reviews is out. Keeping in mind that IGN generally inflates scores a bit, it got a 7 out of 10. The main strength is that it's a "gorgeous" game, but they have several significant criticisms of the gameplay and the game only took 6-7 hours to beat. Also, they say it became boring in that 6 to 7 hours. It doesn't sound like it will provide the huge boost to the PS3 that Sony was looking for:

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/815/815031p1.html

Actually, that's not totally correct. The US reviewers generally inflate scores quite a bit. That article is actually a direct copy of the UK IGN review, which is known for being very critical in most of its game reviews. Some of their criticism may be perfectly valid, but the number score should not be compared to US IGN scores, but rather UK IGN scores if you want a valid comparison. A 8.5-9.0 on UK IGN is considered about as good as it gets.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

3 out of the 4 weeks for the NPD period, the PS3 price drop was in effect. Not being able to pass the 360 this month is a disaster for them, especially when August will have the 360 price drop with Halo 3 following the month after that. The PS3 might get the second spot worldwide but I think it will have a hard time passing XBox 360 in North America. It will take Sony years to get down to $299.

But that's a very closed view of the economic system. These companies aren't just making money in North America. It's fine if Microsoft wants to lay claim that they're at least defending their home turf, but they're getting beat by 50-60K units a month in the rest of the world, where the price difference between the PS3 and 360 is even more than it is in the U.S.

Also, Sony shouldn't have any issues getting down to $299 by the holiday season of 2009. The prices on components, especially the Blu-ray components which make up quite a bit of the cost, are dropping like a rock due to increased supply. So if you meant 2 years when you said 'years', then I agree.

There's no question that it's a disappointment that the PS3 didn't pass the 360 in the U.S. to Sony.

[Eaglesfan27]

I just went to their site, and rather than debate with you whether they inflate scores or not, I'll point out they have over 2 dozen titles with a higher score that have come out in the last 2 weeks. Bioshock got a 9.7 and was the highest score over there in a long time, but they have plenty of other games that have high scores. Heck, the PS3 version of Madden got a higher score than Heavenly Sword.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Heck, the PS3 version of Madden got a higher score than Heavenly Sword.

I'd say that's a criticism of their reviews all on its own. :)

[Eaglesfan27]

I'd say that's a criticism of their reviews all on its own. :)

Not at all, they seem to be good in that they are in line with most media sites in their reviews. It speaks more to the fact that a 7.0 is not a good score and I'd expect to see more luke warm reviews of Heavenly Sword which if it happens is another blow for Sony since they have been hyping this game so much and are counting on it to be a marquee title.

[spleen1015]

Things that never change....

Death
Taxes
And Mizzou Fan keeps drinking the kool-aid.

[Eaglesfan27]

Not a dola -

In comparing the UK ign scores and the US Ign scores, most of the reviews are identical in scoring and in the content. So, your argument that only the US ign inflates scores is wrong.

[Big Fo]

But that's a very closed view of the economic system. These companies aren't just making money in North America. It's fine if Microsoft wants to lay claim that they're at least defending their home turf, but they're getting beat by 50-60K units a month in the rest of the world, where the price difference between the PS3 and 360 is even more than it is in the U.S.

Also, Sony shouldn't have any issues getting down to $299 by the holiday season of 2009. The prices on components, especially the Blu-ray components which make up quite a bit of the cost, are dropping like a rock due to increased supply. So if you meant 2 years when you said 'years', then I agree.

There's no question that it's a disappointment that the PS3 didn't pass the 360 in the U.S. to Sony.

Yeah, PS3 is beating XBox360 in Europe and the 360 is essentially dead in Japan, in these threads the focus seems to be on US sales. I wrote that the PS3 might get the number two spot worldwide, it's probably more likely than that, maybe 70% chance as a speculative guess.

Given the average lifespan of consoles (yeah I know Sony said they have a ten year plan for the PS3, I'm not going to try to predict where videogames will be in 2016) is 5-7 years, the 2009 holiday season is a long way away. That would be three years the product has been on the market before hitting something that is close to a mass market price.

I think wade moore had an interesting point a few posts up, what if Sony had launched the PS3 this November instead of last? The cost could have been lower, it could have launched with Resistance, Motorstorm, NG: Sigma, Ratchet and Clank, Hot Shots 5, Heavenly Sword, etc. and maybe even the ShockAxis controller. It might have been worth the 4.x million sales they have up to now if they could have launched from a better position.