NFL Week 8 [Archive] - Front Office Football Central

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Greyroofoo

10-28-2007, 12:03 PM

Do I want to watch the Dolphins suck or the Raiders suck?

Greyroofoo

10-28-2007, 12:05 PM

Dola, Ginn trips on the opening kick return.

Logan

10-28-2007, 12:07 PM

Dola, Ginn trips on the opening kick return.

Figured that was appropriate since everyone was getting the feed of the kickoff.

Eaglesfan27

10-28-2007, 12:25 PM

Why isn't there a Sunday Night Football game?

Logan

10-28-2007, 12:28 PM

Cause of the last game of the World Series.

Radii

10-28-2007, 12:28 PM

Why isn't there a Sunday Night Football game?

world series. There's always one week a year during the world series where there's no sunday night game.

Radii

10-28-2007, 12:29 PM

So Carolina puts together a great 10 minute drive to go up 7-0 on the Colts, solid defense to hold Manning 3 and out... then the punt returner tries to field a punt that was shanked a bit and rolling down the field, fumbles, and the colts get the ball at the Carolina 20. Way to fucking go.

Greyroofoo

10-28-2007, 12:32 PM

I <3 Miami

JeeberD

10-28-2007, 01:29 PM

Glad I started Derek Anderson this week...

Eaglesfan27

10-28-2007, 01:52 PM

Adrian Peterson with a very bad decision on the opening kickoff of the 2nd half that should have Minnesota starting on their 1 (it's being reviewed right now.)

GreenMonster

10-28-2007, 02:00 PM

Reactions from the crowd:

The Dolphins look like a bunch of wankers out there. These lad's can't play football. Grab your cardigan, this game is bullocks.

sabotai

10-28-2007, 02:24 PM

This just in: Adrian Peterson can fly.

Radii

10-28-2007, 02:38 PM

Carolina is not so good!

RendeR

10-28-2007, 02:45 PM

I dunno what needs to change, but something in Cincinnati needs to change asap. With the talent this team has there is no excuse for the pathetic performance they put on the feild.

Color me sick of not reaching potential.

RendeR

10-28-2007, 02:47 PM

Let me add to that the fact that this pittsburgh team is NOT that good. They are beatable, very beatable at that. But you have to have a clue how to play any recognizable form of defense to beat anyone and bresnahan can't seem to get these guys to do that.

Chief Rum

10-28-2007, 02:49 PM

I I hear the terms "English football" or "soccer, or as they call it here, foot-ball", I will pull my hair out.

Rizon

10-28-2007, 02:57 PM

The only good thing about the Little Giants and Dolphins game is that maybe games will stay in the US. Both of these teams are just awful, a truly horrible display of American football. Hopefully nobody will want us back, and we can end this "get out to the world" nonsense.

CraigSca

10-28-2007, 02:58 PM

Nothing like a good Giants-Dolphins game to rouse the interest of the international community. The next time I hear someone say that soccer is boring compared to American football, I'm going to gag.

Rizon

10-28-2007, 03:00 PM

OMFG GINN TD.

Rizon

10-28-2007, 03:00 PM

what worse ... dolphins or eli lol

Rizon

10-28-2007, 03:03 PM

Another Dolphins loss. In other surprising news: Lance Bass is gay.

Young Drachma

10-28-2007, 03:10 PM

How did the crowd seem receive the game in London?

Chief Rum

10-28-2007, 03:14 PM

How did the crowd seem receive the game in London?

Sounded like a normal crowd to me, except they cheered for both sides. Well, half for one, half for the other, or thereabouts.

Logan

10-28-2007, 03:16 PM

...and booed the Giants taking a knee to end the game.

Young Drachma

10-28-2007, 03:28 PM

How are you Steelers fans feeling about your new coach at 5-2 so far? Or is it just one of those cruise control gigs right now?

Greyroofoo

10-28-2007, 03:30 PM

I refuse to believe that the Lions could actually be 5-2.

It just isn't possible.

sterlingice

10-28-2007, 03:40 PM

Has Tom Brady decided he wants the single season rushing TD record now, too?

SI

SirFozzie

10-28-2007, 04:06 PM

Vrabel now with 10 completions for 10 touchdowns in his career :)

Brady's tied his season high for TD's in week 8 :)

st.cronin

10-28-2007, 04:10 PM

Is there some rule that NFL defenses aren't allowed to cover Mike Vrabel?

SirFozzie

10-28-2007, 04:21 PM

Two straight turnovers for the Skins... this one could get over in a hurry.

edit: neeeeevermind :)

SirFozzie

10-28-2007, 04:37 PM

The fake spike strikes again!

edit: That gives Randy Moss the Patriots record for most TD receptions in a season.

jeff061

10-28-2007, 04:37 PM

Fake spike worked this week. Moss is a freak.

Arles

10-28-2007, 04:44 PM

Quick heads up for future Pats opponents: Belichick has a rule that Brady must be involved in every TD New England scores. Why teams don't just play nickel all game is beyond me. Heck, if I was playing the Pats, I would put 8 DBs out there and force Bill to run the ball 40 time and I still think he would try and throw near the red zone.

jeff061

10-28-2007, 04:50 PM

They spent the first series running it right up their gut. I almost think you have to hope you catch them having an off game.

Arles

10-28-2007, 05:00 PM

The pats have 35 offensive TDs, 29 are passing (and 1 is a Brady keeper). That's Brady being involved in 85% of the offensive TDs. Play nickel/dime and protect against the sneak inside the 5. Now, NE will probably still beat you, but I think it atleast makes them change what they (want to) do to run it all game. That said, NE is an amazing team this season and I think it will take some creative defensive thinking (and luck) to beat them.

Logan

10-28-2007, 05:04 PM

Playing nickel/dime doesn't mean it will automatically stop anything.

SirFozzie

10-28-2007, 05:10 PM

That's how you kill off a game. Sheesh.

Arles

10-28-2007, 05:13 PM

Playing nickel/dime doesn't mean it will automatically stop anything.
But you will admit that getting 400 yards passing and red zone passing TDs is tougher with more DBs in coverage, right? All you can do is try to make NE do something different than what they would prefer to do. Then, you have to hope for two things:
1. All the extra DBs make blitz pickups tougher and conjest the passing lanes to the main options.
2. that Belichick is arrogant enough to still pass and not completely change and run the ball 50 times when you only have 4-5 DL/LBs out there.

Again, this isn't a great option and you will probably still lose. But, at this point, I would rather lose to a 150-200 yard effort by Maroney/Faulk and 3 TDs by Heath Evans than 400 yards and 3 TDs by Brady, Moss, Welker and co. At a minimum, you are making Bill go away from his top playmakers.

SirFozzie

10-28-2007, 05:15 PM

Joe Gibbs looks shell-shocked on the sidelines.

Logan

10-28-2007, 05:19 PM

Wow, I think Laveranues Coles just got very hurt on a hit in the back from a DB.

edit: He's walking off on his own. Looks like I jumped the gun on it...that was one of the loudest hits (in a non-head on encounter) that I've heard in awhile.

Logan

10-28-2007, 05:20 PM

But you will admit that getting 400 yards passing and red zone passing TDs is tougher with more DBs in coverage, right? All you can do is try to make NE do something different than what they would prefer to do. Then, you have to hope for two things:
1. All the extra DBs make blitz pickups tougher and conjest the passing lanes to the main options.
2. that Belichick is arrogant enough to still pass and not completely change and run the ball 50 times when you only have 4-5 DL/LBs out there.

Again, this isn't a great option and you will probably still lose. But, at this point, I would rather lose to a 150-200 yard effort by Maroney/Faulk and 3 TDs by Heath Evans than 400 yards and 3 TDs by Brady, Moss, Welker and co. At a minimum, you are making Bill go away from his top playmakers.

I think you can run all these guys underneath and having all those DBs won't help much.

Buccaneer

10-28-2007, 05:22 PM

Colts appears to have started slow in a few games this season. If they start slow again next week, they could be behind 24-6 by halftime.

Neuqua

10-28-2007, 05:26 PM

Any predictions on what the opening line is going to be for the Patriots/Colts game?

Even with the game in Indy, I can see the Patriots favored by atleast a touchdown.

SirFozzie

10-28-2007, 05:28 PM

Colts appears to have started slow in a few games this season. If they start slow again next week, they could be behind 24-6 by halftime.

The thing is, as the AFC championship showed, they can make that up quickly.

as for the line, I'd have to say pick em or the Colts by a small amount. "To be the man, you have to beat the man."

st.cronin

10-28-2007, 05:28 PM

Any predictions on what the opening line is going to be for the Patriots/Colts game?

Even with the game in Indy, I can see the Patriots favored by atleast a touchdown.

I would be shocked if it were that high. Pats -3.5 is my guess.

hoopsguy

10-28-2007, 05:32 PM

Was thinking 4 points (same area as Cronin), which is massive given that the Colts are Super Bowl champs, undefeated in November, and playing at home.

SirFozzie

10-28-2007, 05:35 PM

Apparently it's Eff You TD time.

SirFozzie

10-28-2007, 05:40 PM

Apparently it's Eff You TD time.

......

38-0, and he goes for it on 4th and short in the red zone with a QB Sneak?

Apparently we are trying to give Karma a donkey punch and hope that it can't hit us back.

hoopsguy

10-28-2007, 05:41 PM

They just went for it on 4th and 1, up 38-0? Eff you, indeed.

DeToxRox

10-28-2007, 05:42 PM

As a Tom Brady fantasy owner I applaud the aggressive play calling of Double B and Co.

Eaglesfan27

10-28-2007, 05:43 PM

Buccaneer

10-28-2007, 05:46 PM

I have seen all of the great QBs since the late 60s but never before have I seen a QB play at a such high level for 7 weeks as Brady. Montana would be the only one that would come close.

Radii

10-28-2007, 05:46 PM

My prediction is that the line will open with the Patriots favored by 8 or 9 and it will grow during the week.

Noble_Platypus

10-28-2007, 05:47 PM

jeff061

10-28-2007, 05:48 PM

What the hell are you talking about? They've been getting ripped for weeks and have in this thread.

DeToxRox

10-28-2007, 05:49 PM

Its an asshole move to throw for another TD when you are up 38-0 in the 4th. I cant understand why everyone isnt ripping them up for running up the score. They are pissed about people questioning the??? They are ADMITTED cheaters. Theres no way the Jets game was the only time they cheated.

It's PRO football. When guys are paid money to play this game, I don't believe there is such a thing as running up the score.

Noble_Platypus

10-28-2007, 05:50 PM

Sorry, I meant the announcers and ESPN and all of the other sports "geniuses" on tv thats blowing them week in and week out.

Neuqua

10-28-2007, 05:50 PM

If the line opens up at 3.5-4 I would be absolutely shocked. Especially with the Colts' injuries.

miami_fan

10-28-2007, 05:51 PM

It's PRO football. When guys are paid money to play this game, I don't believe there is such a thing as running up the score.

+1

jeff061

10-28-2007, 05:51 PM

They commented on it and their attitude is the same as Detox's.

I was fine with last week, they pushed it to far this week.

Buccaneer

10-28-2007, 05:52 PM

So you would have them quit since they are hurting people's feelings?

st.cronin

10-28-2007, 05:52 PM

SirFozzie

10-28-2007, 05:53 PM

Sorry, I meant the announcers and ESPN and all of the other sports "geniuses" on tv thats blowing them week in and week out.

at least most of the praise has to be deserved though, or do you think it's luck that's given the pats the start they have?

Super Ugly

10-28-2007, 05:54 PM

It's PRO football. When guys are paid money to play this game, I don't believe there is such a thing as running up the score.

I disagree. No matter what level you're playing at, running up the score shows a lack of class.

Speaking of a lack of class, I'm getting mighty sick of NY Jets fans clamouring for Clemens. Looks like they might be getting what they want now, after this week. I hope Pennington ends up somewhere better than this circus act of a team.

SirFozzie

10-28-2007, 05:56 PM

Eff You TD #2

Arles

10-28-2007, 05:56 PM

I've figured it out. God was bored coming into this season and decided to take New England as his team in Madden and see what would happen.

SirFozzie

10-28-2007, 05:57 PM

I've figured it out. God was bored coming into this season and decided to take New England as his team in Madden and see what would happen.

the joke "The Patriots are playing Madden on easy mode" has been made quite frequently :)

Arles

10-28-2007, 05:59 PM

Honestly, I don't think I could duplicate their stats if I played Madden in easy mode. This is insane.

st.cronin

10-28-2007, 06:01 PM

It is so classless of the New England defense to tackle the ball-carrier up by 50.

GreenMonster

10-28-2007, 06:02 PM

The Redskins are still throwing the ball.

Exactly. If you want the Pats to roll over, just run it up the gut 3 times, and punt.

SirFozzie

10-28-2007, 06:05 PM

the redskins just said "OK, if you're gonna play that way.."

I fully expect the Pats to come out throwing.

jeff061

10-28-2007, 06:07 PM

So you would have them quit since they are hurting people's feelings?

I'm thinking more along the lines of kicking a FG on 4th down. At the least.

INDalltheway

10-28-2007, 06:11 PM

Good vs Evil next week.. It's time for good to prevail again.

Rizon

10-28-2007, 06:13 PM

The Jax-TB game looks like a HS game: Jax running like 50 times and throwing 5.

SirFozzie

10-28-2007, 06:14 PM

Good vs Evil next week.. It's time for good to prevail again.

Ladies and gentlemen, Mr. Gregg Easterbrook!

jeff061

10-28-2007, 06:16 PM

I'd take a team full of evil over a team full of whining nancy boys any day.

mckerney

10-28-2007, 06:17 PM

Good vs Evil next week.. It's time for good to prevail again.

Agreed. Evil winning in the playoffs last year must be avenged.

Arles

10-28-2007, 06:19 PM

The Jax-TB game looks like a HS game: Jax running like 50 times and throwing 5.
If Quinn Gray was my starting QB, I might consider running the wishbone too.

Malificent

10-28-2007, 06:29 PM

Sportsmanship should matter at every level. Classy or not, the Patriots will be hating life if Tom Brady gets a freak season ending injury while throwing that TD to run the score up to 52-0.

Cringer

10-28-2007, 06:36 PM

I don't really care one way or the other right now, maybe my mind will change over the next week, about who wins the Indy-NE game.

I do think New England takes the game, and it's not really that close. 35-21 or so.

jeff061

10-28-2007, 06:37 PM

Personally I think the Pats defense is going to be exploited, it'll be a tough game. I don't think the Pats D is as good as it's stats.

Desnudo

10-28-2007, 06:38 PM

Chief Rum

10-28-2007, 06:41 PM

What's more classless, kicking a meaningless field goal to tack on 3 more points or at least giving the defense a fair chance to stop you completely? Should the Pats be running up the gut 3 times and punting w/10 minutes left in the quarter while the Redskins start heaving it down the field?

This isn't Pop Warner and there isn't a mercy rule, so tough luck.

Yes, they should. And if it wasn't the Pats, you wouldn't be of the same opinion.

This is coming from someone who does not have a dog in this one at all.

Desnudo

10-28-2007, 06:47 PM

If it wasn't the Pats, I wouldn't really care. If the Patriots were losing by more than 30-0 or so, I would have turned the TV off long before I got fired up over the score getting run up.

The Bears kicked the living crap out of the Pats in the SB, but no one ever said word one about them running up the score, or using the Fridge to score a meaningless TD. I didn't care about that then, only that the Pats lost. People who want a reason to hate a team will always find one and this is a ready made reason.

INDalltheway

10-28-2007, 06:49 PM

Watching both the Colts and Pats today, showed how different the teams handle the same situation. The Colts could have scored 50 points if they really wanted to, but they didn't.

henry296

10-28-2007, 06:49 PM

What's more classless, kicking a meaningless field goal to tack on 3 more points or at least giving the defense a fair chance to stop you completely? Should the Pats be running up the gut 3 times and punting w/10 minutes left in the quarter while the Redskins start heaving it down the field?

This isn't Pop Warner and there isn't a mercy rule, so tough luck.

That is exactly what the Steelers did two years ago against the Bengals. The last 20 plays of the game were runs.

Big Fo

10-28-2007, 06:50 PM

People who want a reason to hate a team will always find one and this is a ready made reason.

Well the years of cheating is enough IMO, the classless running up of the score week after week is merely icing on the cake.

st.cronin

10-28-2007, 06:51 PM

Yes, they should. And if it wasn't the Pats, you wouldn't be of the same opinion.

This is coming from someone who does not have a dog in this one at all.

The reason teams run the ball when ahead by a lot is NOT to keep the final score down, and avoid humiliating their opponents; it is in order to WIN the game, by reducing the total number of possessions. It is not a "classy" strategy, it is a winning strategy.

Radii

10-28-2007, 06:54 PM

jeff061

10-28-2007, 06:56 PM

Anyone who still brings up the cheating ought to just be banned at this point.

Radii

10-28-2007, 06:59 PM

Anyone who still brings up the cheating ought to just be banned at this point.

Your team is the best and has been for a long time. Most fans want your team to lose or fall in some fashion. Its how sports works. Banned? Really?

Chief Rum

10-28-2007, 07:01 PM

Big Fo

10-28-2007, 07:02 PM

Anyone who still brings up the cheating ought to just be banned at this point.

LOL

Don't let it get you down man, just bask in the memory of your team's tainted Super Bowl wins.

Chief Rum

10-28-2007, 07:02 PM

The reason teams run the ball when ahead by a lot is NOT to keep the final score down, and avoid humiliating their opponents; it is in order to WIN the game, by reducing the total number of possessions. It is not a "classy" strategy, it is a winning strategy.

It's both. One is not mutually exclusive from the other.

Sublime 2

10-28-2007, 07:03 PM

LOL

Don't let it get you down man, just bask in the memory of your team's tainted Super Bowl wins.

I do...it's glorious!

DeToxRox

10-28-2007, 07:05 PM

I do...it's glorious!

Pats beat down the Skins like they were the Wolverines vs BU ;)

jeff061

10-28-2007, 07:06 PM

jeff061

10-28-2007, 07:07 PM

Your team is the best and has been for a long time. Most fans want your team to lose or fall in some fashion. Its how sports works. Banned? Really?

No not really, I was just throwing some hyperbole out there. I can't believe people still make a point to bring it up though.

Chief Rum

10-28-2007, 07:11 PM

Your team is the best and has been for a long time. Most fans want your team to lose or fall in some fashion. Its how sports works. Banned? Really?

Honestly, not sure why we bother to respond. My impression (which may not be borne out in reality, but it certainly is in the media and on this board) is that New England fans are rather myopic and biased toward their teams, and get really defensive when their teams are criticized. Their teams can do no wrong. They don't cheat. They don't run up scores. They are always justified, whatever they do. They are destined by God to win, and if they don't, they are cursed. They can hotdog, stare their homeruns out of the park, pump their fists, and it's all good. Because they're the Red Sox/Pats/Celtics/Bruins (even BC now), they are angels from Heaven, they worship their mothers, regularly visit the confessional and almost all of them don't have kids out of wedlock with supermodels.

I know we all do this with our teams (I certainly do with my teams), but I find it more prevalent with NE fans. The longtime standard for insufferable fans for me used to be the New York Yankees fans I had met. But they have been far surpassed by New England fans I have met or heard from in the past few years.

Like I said, it might be I was unfortunate in what fans from that area I have met. But that's the impression I have.

Super Ugly

10-28-2007, 07:12 PM

seems as good a time as any to post this:

hxxp://kissmesuzy.blogspot.com/2007/10/ksk-guide-to-being-insufferable-hole-s.html

not the most work safe blog entry ever. And not directed at any individual here at all, I just found it hilarious and thought about it when seeing yet another thing like this come up :D

Some funny stuff on there. :)

"5. Be sure to boast about all the hot chicks Tom Brady gets to nail. Because that’s totally something for YOU to brag about."

cuervo72

10-28-2007, 07:13 PM

Well, some folks still think they are still cheating in some manner. :)

(Heck, those "problems" the NFL has had with devices messing with their communications systems in stadiums? I wouldn't put it past the Pats - or other organizations - having someone placed in or around various stadiums tapping into the signals.)

Chief Rum

10-28-2007, 07:13 PM

It doesn't annoy me cause it's true(played almost ZERO part in their run). It annoys me because I thought it'd be a third page story for two days when it broke.

It should have been, but I was wrong. I hate being reminded of that.

You're right that that story had way more legs than it deserved. But one thing out of it that was deserved was the bashing of Belichek's arrogance for even choosing to do it. He shouldn't have lost wages. He should have been suspended.

cuervo72

10-28-2007, 07:14 PM

I know we all do this with our teams (I certainly do with my teams), but I find it more prevalent with NE fans.

Speak for yourself - the Philly teams are a bunch of dumbfucks.

markprior22

10-28-2007, 07:15 PM

Chief Rum

10-28-2007, 07:15 PM

Speak for yourself - the Philly teams are a bunch of dumbfucks.

lmao...I'll bet you would more fervently support your teams if they had won a major championship since 1983. :)

Chief Rum

10-28-2007, 07:16 PM

jeff061

10-28-2007, 07:19 PM

Well, some folks still think they are still cheating in some manner. :)

I'm sure they are, like every team.

Sublime 2

10-28-2007, 07:21 PM

Pats beat down the Skins like they were the Wolverines vs BU ;)

Ouch...and touche.

Alan T

10-28-2007, 07:27 PM

I'm a diehard Dallas fan and, while I'm not saying anything many others haven't thought, I want to say that I think the Pats are tremendous and the best football team I've ever seen. I don't have any ill feelings toward them (as sometimes happens in sports), I just sit back and watch them roll. Truly amazing.

I agree as well. Watching the Pats is pretty much everything i wish my team was. Alot of the Pats fans up here are annoying and know less about their team's history than I do as an outsider, but watching the team on the field is pretty much what I wish my team was.

I think all of the people who keep bringing up the silly video camera thing are equally as annoying as the Pats fans are though, especially since the commisioner already stated that the act of video taping isn't what the violation was (all teams do that), it was just having it on the sidelines instead of like one row back.

Hopefully everyone will stop bringing that stupid thing up and get back to focus and think about the amazing game that we are in store for next week.. clearly the two best teams providing a litmus test to see exactly how good each are.

Arles

10-28-2007, 07:29 PM

Honestly, not sure why we bother to respond. My impression (which may not be borne out in reality, but it certainly is in the media and on this board) is that New England fans are rather myopic and biased toward their teams, and get really defensive when their teams are criticized. Their teams can do no wrong. They don't cheat. They don't run up scores. They are always justified, whatever they do. They are destined by God to win, and if they don't, they are cursed. They can hotdog, stare their homeruns out of the park, pump their fists, and it's all good. Because they're the Red Sox/Pats/Celtics/Bruins (even BC now), they are angels from Heaven, they worship their mothers, regularly visit the confessional and almost all of them don't have kids out of wedlock with supermodels.
Reading a lot of Bill Simmons lately? :D

RedKingGold

10-28-2007, 07:38 PM

Bah, it's all cylical. Funny that everyone forgets the Patriot's dynasties of the 1980's. :)

As a 49er's fan, I'm taking my punishment now for that same decade.

Alan T

10-28-2007, 07:40 PM

Bah, it's all cylical. Funny that everyone forgets the Patriot's dynasties of the 1980's. :)

As a 49er's fan, I'm taking my punishment now for that same decade.

As a life long Falcons fan, I hope the 49ers have another 2-3 decades of punishment for what they did to me in the 1980s :)

Chief Rum

10-28-2007, 07:44 PM

As a life long Falcons fan, I hope the 49ers have another 2-3 decades of punishment for what they did to me in the 1980s :)

As a former LA Rams fan, I'm right there with you. :)

Suburban Rhythm

10-28-2007, 07:45 PM

How are you Steelers fans feeling about your new coach at 5-2 so far? Or is it just one of those cruise control gigs right now?

It's difficult to say at this point. I think alot of people like him because it's a new voice. And in un-Cowher-like fashion, he at least tried to explain his thinking of not running against a terrible Denver rush D last week. And, at least it appears, he's letting the assts do their jobs (Lebeau definitely, Arians alot anyways) and not getting his nose in everything.

The fake spike strikes again!

edit: That gives Randy Moss the Patriots record for most TD receptions in a season.

I'm sure they are, like every team.

Has been Moss been called for an offensive PI yet this year? Not taking anything away from him-great player and is interested now that his winning--but every replay I see each week of him getting a jump ball in the endzone, he pushes off.

Chief Rum

10-28-2007, 07:45 PM

Reading a lot of Bill Simmons lately? :D

Ha! Actually, no, I don't usually check out Simmons unless someone posts about him here with a link.

But it's different when he's saying it. He's just beating himself up.

jeff061

10-28-2007, 07:51 PM

Has been Moss been called for an offensive PI yet this year? Not taking anything away from him-great player and is interested now that his winning--but every replay I see each week of him getting a jump ball in the endzone, he pushes off.

Yeah. He got called for a phantom one in the end zone last week. I didn't complain then, it all evens out.

gstelmack

10-28-2007, 07:54 PM

Like I've said before, I think Bill is pissed off about the whole taping incident and the blow to the credibility of the team. I think this motivation will have him playing his starters in week 16 and 17 even if they have the playoff seed wrapped up if they have a chance of going undefeated, which I think they will end up doing.

Agreed 100%. If you listened to the ex-coaches who are now broadcasters, they blew it off as well. I think Bill was willing to take the immediate credibility goal and pay his fine for breaking the rule, but when players and media started attacking the 3 Super Bowls, that was it for anyone they played the rest of the season. I would not be surprised if this was his last year, but before he bows out he wants as many of the following as possible:

one more Super Bowl
an MVP for Brady
Brady to break as many passing records as possible
single-season scoring record
undefeated seasonAs for talk of running up the score, there are plenty of examples of teams overcoming 4+ TD deficits in the fourth quarter. Heck, they were getting blasted for it last week while Houston was busy overcoming a large deficit (and the Pats scored exactly 7 points in the second half last week). This week may well have been Bill going "THIS is what it looks like when we run up the score. Now STFU and let me get back to winning football games."

jeff061

10-28-2007, 07:56 PM

"THIS is what it looks like when we run up the score. Now STFU and let me get back to winning football games."

Ha, that's what I was thinking, he's an ass like that.

gstelmack

10-28-2007, 08:15 PM

Ha, that's what I was thinking, he's an ass like that.

It's clear that something is different this season. In the past he's been known to take a knee deep in opposing territory when up. Not this season...

jeff061

10-28-2007, 08:20 PM

I don't see him leaving though. He's signed for too long and he's not a Parcells type. This team still has too much in the tank, people like to say they mortgaged their future for this year, but that's simply not true by any stretch. I'm more concerned about Pioli leaving, though I am curious what effect his departure would have.

Fidatelo

10-28-2007, 08:37 PM

I love what Belichick and the Pats are doing this year (Broncos fan, for what its worth). The Eff-You TD's are hilarious to watch, and I'm eager to see what kind of numbers Brady can put up (only part of which is the fact that I have Brady in my FFL, the other part is that I just love to see the crazy-good offense they are displaying).

Vinatieri for Prez

10-29-2007, 02:19 AM

miami_fan

10-29-2007, 08:00 AM

I refuse to believe that the Lions could actually be 5-2.

It just isn't possible.

So is there a good Brian Griese and a bad Brian Griese? Four INTs, three in the end zone?

rkmsuf

10-29-2007, 08:03 AM

this run up the score stuff is nonsense. not only do the losing players sound like douchebags but this is pro sports bro. hey washington...stop someone and there is less score put up against you.

Butter

10-29-2007, 08:19 AM

That wasn't running up the score.

Running up the score was when Sam Wyche's Cincinnati Bengals ran an onside kick (successfully) against Jerry Glanville's Houston Oilers, up 45-0 in the 3rd quarter of a game in 1989. Bengals won that game 61-7. That was hatred, and running up the score.

This was just the Pats running their offense. Why should they stop running their offense just because the Redskins can't stop it?

I hate Belichick and most of the smug Pats fans, but this team is an absolute juggernaut. Joyful, yet terrifying to behold. Now that Brady has some real weapons, he will be MVP. He deserves it, honestly. I wish I could close my eyes and we would be starting the next NFL season in September, 2008, because the Super Bowl this year will be New England vs. Indianapolis in the AFC title game, and everyone else is just going through the motions.

rkmsuf

10-29-2007, 08:24 AM

I found it humerous that the Redskins went two minute offense, the Pats let them score and then they went onside kick. Gibbs is a master of building confidence when the other team isn't trying. I did enjoy how he left Clinton Porkus in there to suffer the 4th quarter though.

miami_fan

10-29-2007, 08:24 AM

this run up the score stuff is nonsense. not only do the losing players sound like douchebags but this is pro sports bro. hey washington...stop someone and there is less score put up against you.

I agree with you and have always had this position. I am surprised that this is such a popular opinion today though. My perception has always been that the majority of sports fans take the position that it is wrong.

rkmsuf

10-29-2007, 08:30 AM

I agree with you and have always had this position. I am surprised that this is such a popular opinion today though. My perception has always been that the majority of sports fans take the position that it is wrong.

I mean how much of a douchebag does Randall Godfrey sound like? He hopes to see the Pats again? LOL, NE would love it.

Waaaaaaaa, stop scoring on us.

cuervo72

10-29-2007, 08:40 AM

The "good" Colts never "ran up the score." It happens all the time. And someone actually thinks it's classier to kick a FG when up by 40 points rather than giving the opposing defense an opportunity to stop them?!

Anyways, there's no such thing as running up the score in professional football.

Did no one notice that the reserves played the last 9 minutes or so of the game?

What I found funny though was that it was 38-0, and Brady was obviously pissed when the team had the procedure penalty down there. Dammit it's only 38-0! WTF are you doing moving before the snap! Then they passed to Welker for the TD, and he jumped up and down like they'd just taken the lead. If that puts you up by 44 (pending PAT), just give the ball back to the ref.

And what was with Colvin (?) motioning to the crowd in a blowout wanting to get props for making a play (and then waving them off when he didn't get it)? Since when do Pats players do that?

Alan T

10-29-2007, 08:49 AM

What I found funny though was that it was 38-0, and Brady was obviously pissed when the team had the procedure penalty down there. Dammit it's only 38-0! WTF are you doing moving before the snap! Then they passed to Welker for the TD, and he jumped up and down like they'd just taken the lead. If that puts you up by 44 (pending PAT), just give the ball back to the ref.

And what was with Colvin (?) motioning to the crowd in a blowout wanting to get props for making a play (and then waving them off when he didn't get it)? Since when do Pats players do that?

I actually think he should get upset when they have procedural penalties. That is the type of thing that no team should ever have regardless of the score. You practice every day of the week to get rid of those type of things, a blow out game is no different. I think if I was a Pats fan I would be happy to see Brady get mad at that.

The other stuff I agree with, of course I'm not a big fan of showboating atheletes regardless of the score though. The only thing dumber than what you mentioned is when a Defensive tackle makes a sack and shows off for the crowd even though his team is down by 20 or something. As far as I am concerned, all of that is just dumb.

Alan T

10-29-2007, 08:51 AM

Dola,

My team that I work on has individuals in Chicago, Dallas, New England and the majority at our corp headquarters in New York.. Right now the emails going around this morning from the New England members of my team help illustrate everything that people hate about New England sports fans :)

Daimyo

10-29-2007, 08:59 AM

Would be quite a shame for Brady to get injured going for his fifth touchdown of the day...

Pumpy Tudors

10-29-2007, 09:01 AM

What I found funny though was that it was 38-0, and Brady was obviously pissed when the team had the procedure penalty down there. Dammit it's only 38-0! WTF are you doing moving before the snap! Then they passed to Welker for the TD, and he jumped up and down like they'd just taken the lead. If that puts you up by 44 (pending PAT), just give the ball back to the ref.

And what was with Colvin (?) motioning to the crowd in a blowout wanting to get props for making a play (and then waving them off when he didn't get it)? Since when do Pats players do that?
I didn't see the Colvin (or whoever) play, so I can't comment on that, but...

Regardless of the score, a team is expected to execute. Procedure penalties are bad penalties. No quarterback should ever, ever excuse his teammates for that. A lack of focus is inexcusable, no matter what the score is. Also, the touchdown to Welker was only for, what, 2 yards? It's not like they were throwing the ball 20 to 30 yards downfield on every play. I guess a lot of people think that if you're up by 38 points, that you're required to run the ball on the opponent's 2-yard-line, but I don't agree with that. It's only 2 yards. If the defense can't be bothered to play a real defense that close to the goal line, that's not the offense's fault. The offense has two choices: take a knee, or try to advance the football. With 9:00 to go, you don't take a knee, so you try to advance. When there are only 2 yards in front of you, why does it matter whether you run or pass?

Passacaglia

10-29-2007, 09:02 AM

Passacaglia

10-29-2007, 09:05 AM

Neuqua

10-29-2007, 10:31 AM

The line opened up today at:

New England -4.5

Aylmar

10-29-2007, 01:45 PM

this run up the score stuff is nonsense. not only do the losing players sound like douchebags but this is pro sports bro. hey washington...stop someone and there is less score put up against you.

Or...do what your predecessors in the NFL would have done twenty years ago. Start taking cheap shots at people until you either hurt someone or feel like you've taken your revenge. The Pats are relying on their opponents remaining professional in this case (which is a good bet...they all make too much money now) and not taking Brady's knee late during one of those drives. I mean, hey, it's pro sports right? Sportsmanship doesn't matter. He's hurting you with his talent, knock him out of the game.

rkmsuf

10-29-2007, 01:48 PM

Or...do what your predecessors in the NFL would have done twenty years ago. Start taking cheap shots at people until you either hurt someone or feel like you've taken your revenge. The Pats are relying on their opponents remaining professional in this case (which is a good bet...they all make too much money now) and not taking Brady's knee late during one of those drives. I mean, hey, it's pro sports right? Sportsmanship doesn't matter. He's hurting you with his talent, knock him out of the game.

I would think folks try to. And if that's the type of revenge that these people want then they truely are losers and deserve to be scored on every possession.

ISiddiqui

10-29-2007, 02:04 PM

Or...do what your predecessors in the NFL would have done twenty years ago. Start taking cheap shots at people until you either hurt someone or feel like you've taken your revenge. The Pats are relying on their opponents remaining professional in this case (which is a good bet...they all make too much money now) and not taking Brady's knee late during one of those drives. I mean, hey, it's pro sports right? Sportsmanship doesn't matter. He's hurting you with his talent, knock him out of the game.

True dat. Old style NFL justice was when someone was showing you up, you take 'em out. Not sure old Beli would like that kind of justice.

rkmsuf

10-29-2007, 02:06 PM

True dat. Old style NFL justice was when someone was showing you up, you take 'em out. Not sure old Beli would like that kind of justice.

you guys are wacked out

give me some examples of this

RendeR

10-29-2007, 02:26 PM

I know we all do this with our teams (I certainly do with my teams), but I find it more prevalent with NE fans. The longtime standard for insufferable fans for me used to be the New York Yankees fans I had met. But they have been far surpassed by New England fans I have met or heard from in the past few years.

Like I said, it might be I was unfortunate in what fans from that area I have met. But that's the impression I have.

I wanted to quote CR here and bring some attention back to this.

In 2001 Telle and I moved to the Boston, MA suburbs. We really didn't notice much about the sports teams other than a few drunk hockey fans that got put in their place with a well placed gravity joke.

Joke: You gotta feel sorry for Boston fans, the teams in Boston have been so bad for so long, and their fans have still cheered them on and supported them, I mean hell, if Boston fans cheered for gravity, everyone would float 3 feet of the ground.

But following the playof run towards their first Super Bowl, I was actually rooting FOR them. I was right there with the long suffering fans hoping they would take it all. When they did we were all quite happy together.

Then something just sorta went..*snap*

Suddenly the pats were the greatest team under creation, they were never in the wrong, their players never pushed the grey areas of rules or decency and god forbid if you ever slighted them in any way, the entire chamber of fans around you might just hang you from a tre or fire escape.

This continued to get worse every year and every super bowl win going forward. Then the Sox broke the curse, and now of course the Red Sox are the penultimate chosen team of god and heaven above.

Its not that people do't recognize that the pats and sox are quality teams, what pisses everyone else off is that unless you ordane them the greatest teams ever you're being insulting and their fans treat you like shit.

As with any team in history that dominated its sport, I'm sick of them and am ready for another team to have their time in the sun, but I'm not going to sit back and say they don't derserve to win as they do, they have the talent and they are doing their jobs by winning.

I'm far more fed up with the fact that in a few short years the long suffering adn quite pleasent fan base that they HAD, has trned into arrogant self ritious assholes.

I no longer respect their FANS for a lack of class and humility, the teams I have no real issue with.

RendeR

10-29-2007, 02:32 PM

you guys are wacked out

give me some examples of this

the 1970's Oakland Raiders

The 1950's Detroit Lions

The 1960's NY Giants

All had reputations of viciousness when they felt they were being humiliated, intentionally or not.

rkmsuf

10-29-2007, 02:34 PM

the 1970's Oakland Raiders

The 1950's Detroit Lions

The 1960's NY Giants

All had reputations of viciousness when they felt they were being humiliated, intentionally or not.

wonderful

we suck so let's go hurt someone

jason campbell should knife randy moss on the street then

rkmsuf

10-29-2007, 02:35 PM

the 1970's Oakland Raiders

The 1950's Detroit Lions

The 1960's NY Giants

All had reputations of viciousness when they felt they were being humiliated, intentionally or not.

seriously....those of you advocating this are fucked up and complete morons.

gstelmack

10-29-2007, 02:36 PM

ISiddiqui

10-29-2007, 02:37 PM

Hey, "this is pro sports bro".

RendeR

10-29-2007, 02:39 PM

seriously....those of you advocating this are fucked up and complete morons.

No one should be actively advocating someone DO this, take a chill pill. No one ever said it was RIGHT to do so, but you wanted examples of when this happened before, I gave them to you. Its not "wacked" at all to expect some team to go this route because throughout the history of the NFL there have been teams with such a reputation.

bellicheck should be WARY of how he coaches against different teams, if he ordered offensive playcalling like yesterday against say, the 76 Raiders when up by 30+ points? He'd have taken his team to the locker room in ambulances (plural)

There are simply teams you don't humiliate openly and expect to get away without some retaliation from. I don't know if the pats play anyone like that this year, but ol' beli had best keep such things in mind.

Pumpy Tudors

10-29-2007, 02:40 PM

There may be players or even coaches out there who would love to injure Brady if they think he's showing them up. Obviously, they can't do it because of fines and suspensions. In some cases, it's the league that's protecting players. Players aren't always protected because of their opponent's sense of sportsmanship. Hell, we see enough questionable hits every season to verify that. The point is that "old school justice" isn't going to happen, nor should it. Scoring a bunch of points against a team is one thing, but jeopardizing a guy's career through injury is entirely another.

For me, here's the bottom line: If you want the other team to take a knee, then you take a knee first.

rkmsuf

10-29-2007, 02:40 PM

Hey, "this is pro sports bro".

to score points asshole

why is this so offensive that people accumulate points during a game

humility is playing for free. don't see that going on.

beyond that I would urge the redskins to train and study harder lest they give up 80 points next time.

Pumpy Tudors

10-29-2007, 02:44 PM

There are simply teams you don't humiliate openly and expect to get away without some retaliation from. I don't know if the pats play anyone like that this year, but ol' beli had best keep such things in mind.
How is somebody going to retaliate? If the Patriots do the same thing to another team and somebody goes after Tom Brady in retaliation, that player is going to be suspended, his coach is going to get fined, and the commissioner is going to make an example out of that team. If the league could get away with putting bubble wrap around quarterbacks, they'd do it. It's the league that's protecting the players now, not anybody else's sense of decency and sportsmanship.

RendeR

10-29-2007, 02:45 PM

< sigh >

Since apparently there can't be a Patriots fan with any class or humility, nice to know I'm so disliked around here.

(well, I was never labelled as "humble" in any endeavour related to sports or not, so I guess I'll have to take that)

Each and every single fanbase out there has annoying fans. Deal with it. I have, without ever having picked on or abused a team or its fanbase because they've got some jerks rooting for them. I never called Giants fans "classless" when they started throwing snowballs in the stands. I never called Eagles fans "classless" despite numerous reports of behavior in Philly (this was a huge story a few years ago, only pushed to the side by the Patriots fan attacks).

But hey, you want to throw rocks, whatever.

There are always exceptions. Personally I haven't seen anything specifically assinine about you in particular, and thats great, but if you think that by making this a personal attack on YOU that you exsonerate(sp?) the entire fan base, you're wrong.

its not just a "few annoying fans" its the vast majority of New Englanders, let alone if they're normaly fans or not. For whatever reason the region of New England finally got some winning teams and you would think that they had donimated the history of sports if you listen to anything from public conversations to their "ever so humble" talk radio hosts.

Stop crying about being mislabeled and start accepting the fact that you may well be a very rare breed of NE Fan.

ISiddiqui

10-29-2007, 02:45 PM

to score points asshole

why is this so offensive that people accumulate points during a game

humility is playing for free. don't see that going on.

beyond that I would urge the redskins to train and study harder lest they give up 80 points next time.

All we're saying is don't whine about someone else being classless (say, if they go after Brady) while your team is being classless itself (running up the score IS classless, no matter what the justification is for it).

Pumpy Tudors

10-29-2007, 02:46 PM

All we're saying is don't whine about someone else being classless (say, if they go after Brady) while your team is being classless itself (running up the score IS classless, no matter what the justification is for it).
There's a big ass difference between classless and dirty.

RendeR

10-29-2007, 02:48 PM

to score points asshole

why is this so offensive that people accumulate points during a game

humility is playing for free. don't see that going on.

beyond that I would urge the redskins to train and study harder lest they give up 80 points next time.

You need to relax. Seriously. you're going so far overboard its fucking rediculouds. You're destroying any argument you might have to make by being just as much of an asshole as those you're complaining about.

And humility has nothing to do with pay.

gstelmack

10-29-2007, 02:48 PM

There are always exceptions. Personally I haven't seen anything specifically assinine about you in particular, and thats great, but if you think that by making this a personal attack on YOU that you exsonerate(sp?) the entire fan base, you're wrong.

I didn't try to exonerate the fan base. I'm just pointing out that EVERY team has a fair chunk of jerks following them, so you might as well be saying "I hate every team's fans" and be done with it. People keep digging up reasons to bash Patriots fans on this board...

Pumpy Tudors

10-29-2007, 02:49 PM

You need to relax.
For some reason, I'm amused here.

RendeR

10-29-2007, 02:49 PM

There's a big ass difference between classless and dirty.

No, there isn't.

rkmsuf

10-29-2007, 02:49 PM

gstelmack

10-29-2007, 02:49 PM

For me, here's the bottom line: If you want the other team to take a knee, then you take a knee first.

I won't necessarily go quite that far, but Icy had a great point last week that if the Dolphins didn't want Brady back in there, they shouldn't have been returning picks for TDs :D

RendeR

10-29-2007, 02:49 PM

For some reason, I'm amused here.

This is the new, calm, controlled and eloquent RendeR.

Enraged asshole RendeR is taking a valium.

Pumpy Tudors

10-29-2007, 02:50 PM

No, there isn't.
To make an example: Taunting is classless. Injuring someone intentionally is dirty. I don't see how these things can possibly be equated. One hurts a guy's feelings, the other hurts his career.

Aylmar

10-29-2007, 02:51 PM

seriously....those of you advocating this are fucked up and complete morons.

Who's advocating? You think teams shouldn't grouse about taking a beating because "it's pro sports, bro". I just offered an alternative method for them to vent their anger other than using words. Do I think it will happen? No. Too much money involved. Do I think it should happen? No. But I don't think you go for it on fourth down up 35-0 either.

RendeR

10-29-2007, 02:51 PM

..People keep digging up reasons to bash Patriots fans on this board...

This is where you're wrong. Look at the colts as an example. They've been just as good for just as many years as the patriots.

Do you see everyone shredding their fan base?

No. You don't. So why are they shredding the pat's fanbase? Because that fanbase has given them a reason to.

rkmsuf

10-29-2007, 02:52 PM

rkmsuf

10-29-2007, 02:53 PM

Whose advocating? You think teams shouldn't grouse about taking a beating because "it's pro sports, bro". I just offered an alternative method for them to vent their anger other than using words. Do I think it will happen? No. Too much money involved. Do I think it should happen? No. But I don't think you go for it on fourth down up 35-0 either.

kick the field goal, right

Pumpy Tudors

10-29-2007, 02:55 PM

I've been thinking about this whole "running up the score" thing more and more throughout the day, and a thought just hit me like a brick: Why do people care so much about it? Why do fans care? Why do sportswriters care? What does it matter? OK, the Redskins got beaten by 45 points, and Brady threw a touchdown pass with 9:00 to go to make the score 45-0. I get that part. It's not like it matters to the Redskins now, though. When they start their game against the Jets next week, the score will be 0-0. Regardless of how many points the Patriots scored yesterday, the Redskins still lost the game. So why does everybody care? Somehow, I don't think that half the Washington roster and coaching staff are sitting around in tears because their feelings got hurt by the Patriots.

rkmsuf

10-29-2007, 02:56 PM

a. it's media inventing stuff to feed:

b. sad sack fans that want a good team

RendeR

10-29-2007, 02:58 PM

Classless - pro excuse for sucking and not being able to stop teams from scoring

Running up the score - being so much better that games are over by halftime and the rest of the wage earning nfl is embarassed at their lack of ability relative to their next contract.

Sometimes you geeks really are ridiculous in your thought process.

The Patriots running up the score: insulting and humiliating

The Patriots fans trying not just to defend this but to somehow think its what should be done: Classless.

gstelmack

10-29-2007, 02:59 PM

This is where you're wrong. Look at the colts as an example. They've been just as good for just as many years as the patriots.

The Colts are not considered a dynasty, and have managed a single Super Bowl win. They are considered a good team, sure, but the Patriots base is the one that everyone has been saying "dynasty" about. That's a key difference and what moves the Patriots into the Cowboys / 49ers / Steelers territory.

Do you see everyone shredding their fan base?

No. You don't. So why are they shredding the pat's fanbase? Because that fanbase has given them a reason to.

The Patriots are successful, so the fans have something to be proud of, so everyone attacks the team and their fans. It's the cycle of sports. I hope you're happy to be a part of it.

As I mentioned earlier, I've run into obnoxious fans plenty, but I've never bashed entire fanbases, which seems to be quite the sport around here.

ISiddiqui

10-29-2007, 02:59 PM

This is where you're wrong. Look at the colts as an example. They've been just as good for just as many years as the patriots.

Do you see everyone shredding their fan base?

No. You don't. So why are they shredding the pat's fanbase? Because that fanbase has given them a reason to.

Bingo... and I think in terms of NFL teams, a lot of that exudes from the coaches of the relative teams. Tony Dungy is probably the classiest coach in the NFL, while Bill Belichick is widely regarded as a complete prick.

RendeR

10-29-2007, 03:00 PM

So why does everybody care? Somehow, I don't think that half the Washington roster and coaching staff are sitting around in tears because their feelings got hurt by the Patriots.

Because it gives the fans something to point at and vent their anger and frustration on.

What really would have shut up the whole argument would have been if patriots fans had simply said "yeah, they probably should have just gone solid runs unless the skins made some sort of sign of awakening."

but instead most of them got all offended and pissed off. Unfortunately, thats a typical Boston sports fan reaction.

Pumpy Tudors

10-29-2007, 03:08 PM

Because it gives the fans something to point at and vent their anger and frustration on.

What really would have shut up the whole argument would have been if patriots fans had simply said "yeah, they probably should have just gone solid runs unless the skins made some sort of sign of awakening."

but instead most of them got all offended and pissed off. Unfortunately, thats a typical Boston sports fan reaction.
Well, since I'm neither a Patriots fan or a Reskins fan, I can't really speak to this specific situation, but if my team got blown out in the same way Washington did yesterday, you know what I'd be upset about? I'd be upset about my team absolutely sucking rather than placing some kind of blame on the team that won. I'm not saying that it makes me better than anyone else. It just makes me different.

I guess I understand where the whole "pro sports" argument comes from. If two pro football teams go up against each other and this kind of result happens, it's because one team was just plain unprepared and was not very good that day. If a big-time BCS school blows out Bucknell (for example), it's because there's really a huge difference between those two teams. Bucknell could prepare night and day for the game and basically still not really have a chance.

"Any given sunday" is a cliche and all, but in the NFL, every team has a chance to win every week. If the coaching staff doesn't prepare properly and if the players don't execute, if they get blown out, they can only point the finger at themselves. Maybe I'm wrong, but at this level, everyone is more or less on a level playing field, and there's no way that a well-prepared team should lose by 45 points. If you're not ready to play, that's your fault.

sabotai

10-29-2007, 03:15 PM

Good to see these "NFL Week" threads have gone the way of the "Console Sales" threads...

RendeR

10-29-2007, 03:25 PM

The Colts are not considered a dynasty, and have managed a single Super Bowl win. They are considered a good team, sure, but the Patriots base is the one that everyone has been saying "dynasty" about. That's a key difference and what moves the Patriots into the Cowboys / 49ers / Steelers territory.

The Patriots are successful, so the fans have something to be proud of, so everyone attacks the team and their fans. It's the cycle of sports. I hope you're happy to be a part of it.

As I mentioned earlier, I've run into obnoxious fans plenty, but I've never bashed entire fanbases, which seems to be quite the sport around here.

Nobody gives a shit about the dynasty label, that point alone shows the utter arrogance I've been talking about.

Over the years from 2003 to now the Colts and the Patriots have both been superior footbal teams. The Pats won 3 bowls, the Colts 1, there is no huge difference there. If the Colts had beaten the Pats a few more times they'd have won 3 or perhaps more super bowls. Thats a moot point.

The fact is the Pats fans bacame assinine in the larger part over their success and pissed off half the universe. The Colts fans did not.

I don't really care how you in particular have dealt with anything, you're going to be a victim of the general opinion of your fanbase no matter what team you root for. You root for the Pats and the general opinion is that your fanbase is a clusterfuck.

You don't see that opinion of most other teams fans, such as the colts in my example, whose teams have been equally as successfull.

Pumpy Tudors

10-29-2007, 03:30 PM

Good to see these "NFL Week" threads have gone the way of the "Console Sales" threads...
THE WII WOULD OUTSCORE THE PATRIOTS BY 10 MILLION

SirFozzie

10-29-2007, 03:31 PM

RendeR: You pats fans are all assholes

FOFC Pats Fans: Wait... (points out that some/most of us don't agree with it, and I even mentioned that Belichick was daring Karma to do their worst by asking Brady to sneak on fourth and 1 at the five).

RendeR: well, maybe not all of you Pats fans are assholes. I overreacted

FOFC Pats Fans:Glad we could get that settled.

RendeR: So, as I was saying, all you Pats fans are assholes..

RendeR

10-29-2007, 03:39 PM

How is somebody going to retaliate? If the Patriots do the same thing to another team and somebody goes after Tom Brady in retaliation, that player is going to be suspended, his coach is going to get fined, and the commissioner is going to make an example out of that team. If the league could get away with putting bubble wrap around quarterbacks, they'd do it. It's the league that's protecting the players now, not anybody else's sense of decency and sportsmanship.

Missed this one earlier, sorry Pumpy.

The player knocking Brady into next spring might well get suspended, but absolutly nothing much else will happen.

Players get hurt. If they knew for a act it was done on purpose, they might investigate it more, but unles there is some sort of kill order on paper the oly thing that might happen is a fine and perhaps a game suspension for the guy who did it.

Honestly, this league is far more honorable than it ever used to be. In the 40's and 50's teams would get far ahead and pull their stars and the opposing team would target them with guys going for "sideline tackles" and take out the stars standing in their coats along the sidelines.

Easier to punish someone who's just standing there watching you come at them never considering that you're about to dive into their kneecaps.

You don;t see THAT in this day and age. But if the pats are up 50 next week and Brady is still in the game and a colts lineman rolls up his legs and puts him down for the season, what are they going to do?

nothing.

And the patriots and their fans will have only one person to blame, Bellicheck.

sabotai

10-29-2007, 03:45 PM

THE WII WOULD OUTSCORE THE PATRIOTS BY 10 MILLION

JUST WAIT AND SEE! THE PS3 WILL SIGN A BUNCH OF AAA FREE AGENTS IN SPRING 08 AND WILL DOMINATE!

gstelmack

10-29-2007, 03:50 PM

What really would have shut up the whole argument would have been if patriots fans had simply said "yeah, they probably should have just gone solid runs unless the skins made some sort of sign of awakening."

The Patriots ran 35 times (vs 41 passes) for 153 yards for a 4.3 yards per carry average. Somehow I don't think running every down would have helped a whole lot here...

RendeR

10-29-2007, 03:50 PM

SirFozzie

10-29-2007, 03:55 PM

And the constant lumping of the majority of pats fans in with the classless assholes is just as mistifying.

RendeR

10-29-2007, 03:56 PM

The Patriots ran 35 times (vs 41 passes) for 153 yards for a 4.3 yards per carry average. Somehow I don't think running every down would have helped a whole lot here...

Thats entirely possible, but running the ball isn't considered attacking the defense. Running the ball isn't considered being aggresive and trying to score more.

So while they MAY wel have scored another 5 TD's by running the ball, it wouldn't have been looked at as as big of a "fuck you" from the pats coaching staff.

gstelmack

10-29-2007, 03:57 PM

As I said there are always exceptions. But the constant cry-baby crap from pats fans about being lumped together with the majority is a bit mystifying.

I no longer respect their FANS for a lack of class and humility

its not just a "few annoying fans" its the vast majority of New Englanders, let alone if they're normaly fans or not

So why are they shredding the pat's fanbase? Because that fanbase has given them a reason to

Exactly where am I supposed to figure out I'm not one of the "vast majority"? You (and others here) are continuously trashing a group of which I'm a proud member. And I'm supposed to just take it lying down and assume you don't mean me, or SirFozzie, or other Patriots fans?

Lightning: ...no more rusty old cars...
Mater: What's wrong with rusty old cars?
Lightning: I don't mean you, Mater. I like you. I mean OTHER rusty old cars.

Honolulu_Blue

10-29-2007, 04:08 PM

I can't wait until the Lions' dynasty starts and people start calling Lions' fans annoying, arrogant, and classless.

That will be sweet...

RendeR

10-29-2007, 04:24 PM

Exactly where am I supposed to figure out I'm not one of the "vast majority"? You (and others here) are continuously trashing a group of which I'm a proud member. And I'm supposed to just take it lying down and assume you don't mean me, or SirFozzie, or other Patriots fans?

The point is that while YOU or Fozzie or any other individual fan may well be fine upstanding decent people, that grouping that you're so proud of has created a reputation that's pretty much shit. So if you want to be proud of that, so be it.

You're opinion is that since YOU are a great guy, then the majority of Pats fans are too, when from experience I can very strongly state that the majority are in fact NOT the upstanding wonderful people that you'd wish they were.

You can be proud to be a Patriots fan, thats not at issue, but you can't reasonably expect anyone to listen to you defend them as if they were saints and not take up the argument.

Simply nodding your head and going, yeah, some of us have been assholes. Would have gone a long way to ending this discussion hours ago ;) instead you try and defend the entireity and tell everyone else we're just being haters, which just makes you look that much worse.

RendeR

10-29-2007, 04:25 PM

And the constant lumping of the majority of pats fans in with the classless assholes is just as mistifying.

Then stop defending the majority of your fans. If they're assholes, then label them as such. Seems like a pretty reasonable expectation. instead of trying to convince everyone else that they're not.

RendeR

10-29-2007, 04:29 PM

See the point you guys seem to miss is that I KNOW the new England area fans weren't really this bad 5+ years ago. I lived there, i worked there , I got excited for the Patriots just like everyone else in '01.

Then as I said, it was like someone flipped a switch and suddenly I was surrounded by flaming assholes around home, around work, downtoan, uburbs, it made no difference.

You can't honestly tell me thats a good thing. Or that I'm just making it up. I was THERE.

RendeR

10-29-2007, 04:31 PM

I can't wait until the Lions' dynasty starts and people start calling Lions' fans annoying, arrogant, and classless.

That will be sweet...

*grins*

Honestly, I would hope someone would step up and tel me if I become a real asshole if the bengals ever finally figure out how to win consistantly and *gasp* dominate the league.

I don't want to BE that fan. If nothing else, i've seen how the patriots following has become and It makes me sad.

RendeR

10-29-2007, 04:32 PM

Quadruple dola:

I've said my piece.

be Well john Spartan.

molson

10-29-2007, 06:15 PM

You're opinion is that since YOU are a great guy, then the majority of Pats fans are too, when from experience I can very strongly state that the majority are in fact NOT the upstanding wonderful people that you'd wish they were.

Really? The majority? How many Patriots fans are there in the world. 20 Million would be a conservative number. You're saying at least 10 Million of them are assholes?

I have a CRAZY alternative theory, lets see if you can follow along. Maybe, just maybe, there's asshole fans for every team, and living in New England, you noticed the assholes for that particular team. (Because it sure would be something if there was a noticeable contingent of asshole Seahawk fans in the metro Boston area).

I'm so tired of this discussion. I was at the two world series games in Denver this weekend. There were a shitload of asshole Rocky fans. One was screaming in my face and actually grabbed my neck from behind after Holiday hit the three-run home run in Game 3. Another actually started a fist-fight in my section, swinging first after yelling something about this "being our house". Another group of Rocky fans yelled at me to get off the bus at the park and ride on the way to the game, because it was full and there were Rocky fans waiting in line.

There were also a lot of cool Rocky fans there, definitely enjoying the experience of their team's crazy run.

As a general rule you'll be much more accurate in your need to judge people if you stick to individuals, rather than groups.

You feel the need to bring up living in the Boston area every single time there's a thread like this, as if that proves anything. It doesn't sound like you were very popular there - I don't care where you live, if you perceive that everyone around you is an asshole, you definitely need to look the in mirror to see what the problem is.

I've there's a higher than average smugness ratio with Pats fans, it's based largely on the fact that their success has now earned them the title of new NFL villain. If everyone's going to hate you anyway, you might as well have fun with it, and rub the haters faces in it.

Watching people completely implode in light of the crazy recent success of the Boston sports teams is very entertaining thing to see.

molson

10-29-2007, 06:44 PM

its not just a "few annoying fans" its the vast majority of New Englanders, let alone if they're normaly fans or not. For whatever reason the region of New England finally got some winning teams and you would think that they had donimated the history of sports if you listen to anything from public conversations to their "ever so humble" talk radio hosts.

Wow, so they're talking about the Pats and Red Sox on WEEI instead of the Lions/Bears game yesterday? What jerks.

And of course, you're also completely wrong here. The WEEI hosts were very critical of the flat play of the Red Sox pretty much all year. Actually, the Boston media is pretty famous for its negativity towards the local teams.

molson

10-29-2007, 07:11 PM

Alan T

10-29-2007, 07:19 PM

I would suggest developing a sense of humor about that stuff.

Are you speaking to me as far as developing a sense of humor? Aren't you assuming alot to say that? I thought the interchange was pretty funny. The people in New York didn't as much :)

molson

10-29-2007, 07:22 PM

Are you speaking to me as far as developing a sense of humor? Aren't you assuming alot to say that? I thought the interchange was pretty funny. The people in New York didn't as much :)

Oh, sorry, never mind then, I didn't correctly interpret your smiley face.

Alan T

10-29-2007, 07:27 PM

Wow, so they're talking about the Pats and Red Sox on WEEI instead of the Lions/Bears game yesterday? What jerks.

And of course, you're also completely wrong here. The WEEI hosts were very critical of the flat play of the Red Sox pretty much all year. Actually, the Boston media is pretty famous for its negativity towards the local teams.

You listen to a different WEEI than I do.. Dale and Holly still are convinced that the Bruins might win it all, and pretty much all of them have completely supported everything that the Red Sox and Pats do.. and they all are hyping the Celtics as well since they carry their games again (even before KG being traded to the Celts)...

That said, I don't care too much, I've never lived anywhere that didn't have homer radio shows. If I want a national feel, I'll watch ESPN. I enjoy some of the WEEI shows enough even if I know that every year some of their hosts will say the Pats will go 16-0 (even though they might just be right this year)

RendeR

10-29-2007, 07:49 PM

You feel the need to bring up living in the Boston area every single time there's a thread like this, as if that proves anything. It doesn't sound like you were very popular there - I don't care where you live, if you perceive that everyone around you is an asshole, you definitely need to look the in mirror to see what the problem is.

And I thought none of them were on FOFC.... nice personal attack there bub.It proves something very impotant, that even when in their home territory, in their home confines, safely protected from being outnumbered by any other fans, they're still pricks. You think I come by this attitude because I want to? I LIKED the pats and supported them for that first year or so. Ever wonder WHY someone would go this far the other way? Holy shit man.

And frankly, I've enjoyed living around every major city that I've had the opportunity to with 2 exceptions, San Francisco because its probably the single worst geographically laid out area in the entire wold. And...wait for it....Massachusettes...and you know why? The people. I loved the region, its gorgious up there. The forests the history the winters I loved all that. I had to get the hell OUT of there because of the PEOPLE. So when you actually KNOW something about me, then you step up. Otherwise shut yer uneducated PIE hole.

** Note to Pumpy, Sorry man, I tried to stay on the valium but Molson here is just a fucking idiot.

I've there's a higher than average smugness ratio with Pats fans, it's based largely on the fact that their success has now earned them the title of new NFL villain. If everyone's going to hate you anyway, you might as well have fun with it, and rub the haters faces in it.

Watching people completely implode in light of the crazy recent success of the Boston sports teams is very entertaining thing to see.

THIS is precisely why many many people think the fanbase is overwhelmingly loaded with assholes.This is what makes them assholes.

molson

10-29-2007, 07:57 PM

** Note to Pumpy, Sorry man, I tried to stay on the valium but Molson here is just a fucking idiot.

Classy.

Bottom line - you start this shit in every thread, and others respond to it.

molson

10-29-2007, 08:05 PM

And frankly, I've enjoyed living around every major city that I've had the opportunity to with 2 exceptions, San Francisco because its probably the single worst geographically laid out area in the entire wold. And...wait for it....Massachusettes...and you know why? The people. I loved the region, its gorgious up there. The forests the history the winters I loved all that. I had to get the hell OUT of there because of the PEOPLE. So when you actually KNOW something about me, then you step up. Otherwise shut yer uneducated PIE hole.

I never, ever, ever heard of someone leaving a metro area with 10+ million people because EVERYONE was a jerk. That's really amazing if you think about it. You'd have to have contact with at least 200,000 - 300,000 people to have an adequate sample size. I'd love to hear some specific examples of what people did to you that was so horrible.

I didn't personally attack you - I pointed out your obnoxious hyperbole (which is your shtick, I realize). You came back with personal attacks.

Jas_lov

10-29-2007, 08:13 PM

Big Touchdown Favre to James Jones who burned Champ Bailey to make it 7-7! I'm a Packers fan, but all of this excessive love for Favre by Tony Kornheiser needs to stop! Get Kornheiser off MNF and that highlight of Favre at the beginning of the brodcast was stupid. It's not like Favre died yesterday!

gstelmack

10-29-2007, 08:18 PM

Then stop defending the majority of your fans. If they're assholes, then label them as such. Seems like a pretty reasonable expectation. instead of trying to convince everyone else that they're not.

At no point in this entire discussion have I or SirFozzie or anyone else tried to claim that there were not asshole Pats fans, or even that there weren't LOTS of asshole Pats fans. Rather, we've said that every team has asshole fans, especially when they are successful and have something to brag about, and even have LOTS of them, so it's pretty hypocritical to decide the entire fanbase sucks (excuse me, the "vast majority of" people living in the region that hosts the team), and ONLY that fanbase sucks.

The only reason the Patriots are "special" here is because:

1) They are currently successful, and thus fans have something to (legitimately) boast about. For cryin' out loud, they are having one of the best NFL seasons EVER.
2) You lived in a hotbed of fandom, so were more likely to run into an asshole Pats fan, simply because you ran into a LOT of Pats fans. And all it takes is running into one to overshadow the next 10 nice ones you meet, as you may not even ever realise they were fans, and they were completely overshadowed by the one blowhard jerk.
3) You listened to lots of sports radio, and somehow decided that a profession filled with blowhard jerks (with Jim Rome their king) is representative of their fans.

And then you come in here and make comments about the whole fanbase based on that. The only qualifier you made was "its the vast majority of New Englanders", which wasn't much of one, and even explicitly went beyond fans.

How exactly are we not supposed to react defensively, when you've been as broad as possible in your statements? And when it comes up in pretty much every NFL thread?

My main point in this and every other time it's come up is: if you're going to hate a fanbase because there are lots of jerks in it, at least be consistent and admit you hate ALL fanbases. Otherwise, stop using a broad brush and by implication insulting a fair chunk of this board (no matter what team's fanbase you are bashing).

Greyroofoo

10-29-2007, 08:35 PM

I can't wait until the Lions' dynasty starts and people start calling Lions' fans annoying, arrogant, and classless.

That will be sweet...

Just think, if the Packers lose tonight and the regular season ended immediately after, the Lions would have a first round bye in the playoffs :eek:

miami_fan

10-29-2007, 08:50 PM

I can't wait until the Lions' dynasty starts and people start calling Lions' fans annoying, arrogant, and classless.

That will be sweet...

I am beginning to believe the good Lord is keeping the Dolphins as bottom feeders until the day I pledge not to be that way when they start winning again:D

cuervo72

10-29-2007, 09:13 PM

b. sad sack fans that want a good team

It's posts like this. A couple of years ago, we were supposed to pity the poor Boston fans. They hadn't had a winner since the Celtics! The Pats were always downtrodden, and the Sox had their century of agony! Now, everyone else can go screw themselves, we have our good teams and all the rest of you are sad sacks and can just go pound sand.

cuervo72

10-29-2007, 09:15 PM

The Patriots ran 35 times (vs 41 passes) for 153 yards for a 4.3 yards per carry average. Somehow I don't think running every down would have helped a whole lot here...

You mean the defense wouldn't become very familiar with that play?

sterlingice

10-29-2007, 09:16 PM

THE WII WOULD OUTSCORE THE PATRIOTS BY 10 MILLION

JUST WAIT AND SEE! THE PS3 WILL SIGN A BUNCH OF AAA FREE AGENTS IN SPRING 08 AND WILL DOMINATE!

I really want to contribute to this but don't have a good line :(

SI

sterlingice

10-29-2007, 09:19 PM

can just go pound sand

I know this is getting way off topic but where is this phrase from?

SI

sterlingice

10-29-2007, 09:20 PM

This continued to get worse every year and every super bowl win going forward. Then the Sox broke the curse, and now of course the Red Sox are the penultimate chosen team of god and heaven above.

I think that's a great use of the term "penultimate" as the Yankees are clearly showing us who is the ultimate chosen team of god, upstaging the world series and all...

SI

Rizon

10-29-2007, 10:30 PM

F'n Packers.

ISiddiqui

10-29-2007, 10:35 PM

It's posts like this. A couple of years ago, we were supposed to pity the poor Boston fans. They hadn't had a winner since the Celtics! The Pats were always downtrodden, and the Sox had their century of agony! Now, everyone else can go screw themselves, we have our good teams and all the rest of you are sad sacks and can just go pound sand.

Yep. So we're supposed to root for the Boston teams because they can't win. But then they are winning all the time, and if we say ANYTHING critical, that can't be allowed.

Perhaps its all anecdote, but of all the fans I've run into in my life, I do have to say that New England fans have been the most annoying. And I really had little problem with Cowboy fans in the early to mid 90s or, really, Yankee fans in the late 90s (I'm a Mets fan, so I really should have, but I never particularly did... I just hated particular players, like a certain pitcher whose last name rhymes with Lemons). It is the NE fans that tend to annoy the Hell out of me with their bluster and lack of ability to take criticism.

Not that it's all of them, but I tend to find more assholes in the general fan population than other teams. It's really made me hate the Red Sox as much as I hate the Yankees.

Rizon

10-29-2007, 10:37 PM

F'n Packers.

lolz

ISiddiqui

10-29-2007, 10:37 PM

Holy crap, Brett Favre is amazing! :eek:

Lathum

10-29-2007, 10:38 PM

wow, another monday night miracle from Favre

sabotai

10-29-2007, 10:38 PM

To me, Patriots fans are the 2nd most annoying fans. First would be Raiders fans who still can't accept that it was not a fumble.

DeToxRox

10-29-2007, 10:39 PM

Greg Jennings just won me two fantasy games

Buccaneer

10-29-2007, 10:40 PM

Wow, even I was impressed.

sterlingice

10-29-2007, 10:42 PM

Greg Jennings just won me two fantasy games

He just, um, scored a really long garbage TD for me in two leagues (did I mention I have Brady in both leagues)?

SI

Fonzie

10-29-2007, 10:43 PM

WOOHOO!

Amazing. Simply amazing.

Pumpy Tudors

10-29-2007, 10:43 PM

I am pissed off about Shanahan's playcalling at the end of regulation. The Broncos had chances to score a touchdown, yet they settled for a rush-to-the-line field goal attempt. It didn't have to go to overtime. There's no way that Cutler should have only gotten one pass to the end zone, but Shanahan's playcalling handcuffed him. Also, what a pleasure it is to see both "shutdown corners" for Denver get absolutely torched tonight. What a disappointment. :(

Rizon

10-29-2007, 10:44 PM

First would be Raiders fans who still can't accept that their father is married to their sister.

Agreed.

sabotai

10-29-2007, 10:45 PM

Did Stuart Scott JUST learn about the phrase "Department of Redundancy Department"? I've barely had ESPN on tonight, other than the game, and I think that's the third time I heard him say it today.

Rizon

10-29-2007, 10:47 PM

Did Stuart Scott JUST learn about the phrase "Department of Redundancy Department"? I've barely had ESPN on tonight, other than the game, and I think that's the third time I heard him say it today.

I thought he just said "Department of BOOYOW".

PS: Actually, in his defense, I haven't heard him say that in awhile. Course, that is because I shut off the TV when he comes on.

Arles

10-29-2007, 11:13 PM

As a Packer fan, that was probably the best game I've seen Favre play in 3 years. Here's hoping this improbable season continues. Although, it will pretty much be moot for any NFC team when they encounter the buzz saw that is New England.

dime

10-30-2007, 12:54 AM

I never got why dre bly was supposed to be a plus corner. he's like a slow terrell buckley, gets burned deep for 6 every game I've seen him play.

RendeR

10-30-2007, 01:14 AM

At no point in this entire discussion have I or SirFozzie or anyone else tried to claim that there were not asshole Pats fans, or even that there weren't LOTS of asshole Pats fans. Rather, we've said that every team has asshole fans, especially when they are successful and have something to brag about, and even have LOTS of them, so it's pretty hypocritical to decide the entire fanbase sucks (excuse me, the "vast majority of" people living in the region that hosts the team), and ONLY that fanbase sucks.

Lets sart here, I am not hinting, suggesting, stating or otherwise even TRYING to say there aren't asshole fans for other teams. You guys keep trying to put those words in my mouth. I know a number of assinine fans for most every team.

What I am saying is that in my experience of living in and amongst the New England region faithful I have come to understand thet they, in general, are FAR bigger assholes to other teams fans than I've seen anywhere else. Its not just the attitude, its the sheer NUMBER of people with the shitty attitude.

The only reason the Patriots are "special" here is because:

1) They are currently successful, and thus fans have something to (legitimately) boast about. For cryin' out loud, they are having one of the best NFL seasons EVER.

I agree but that doesn't give the fans (any team's fans in this situation) free reign to bludgeon everyone else to death with their wild hyperbole about players and general euphoria whilst throwing temper tantrums if anyone even suggests they have some negative highlite. They have every right to be excited, but that excitement shouldn't make you (as in the typical fan) look like a dick when you relate to other people.

2) You lived in a hotbed of fandom, so were more likely to run into an asshole Pats fan, simply because you ran into a LOT of Pats fans. And all it takes is running into one to overshadow the next 10 nice ones you meet, as you may not even ever realise they were fans, and they were completely overshadowed by the one blowhard jerk.

This would probably be true, if I didn't have a large number of friends, good people and good fans who were PAtriots fans. No matter how decent these guys were, even THEY got upset over the vast majority of other fans in the area. This just isn't true in this case.

3) You listened to lots of sports radio, and somehow decided that a profession filled with blowhard jerks (with Jim Rome their king) is representative of their fans.

Actually, I rarely listened to sports talk radio specifically. There are butt-tons of talk radio stations on almost any and every topic in new Englans, the insane part was how they ALL suddenly turned into raging fanboys and espoused the coronation of Boston as the rown Jewel of sports cities. As if the previous century of utter futility had never existed.

And then you come in here and make comments about the whole fanbase based on that. The only qualifier you made was "its the vast majority of New Englanders", which wasn't much of one, and even explicitly went beyond fans.

How exactly are we not supposed to react defensively, when you've been as broad as possible in your statements? And when it comes up in pretty much every NFL thread?

My main point in this and every other time it's come up is: if you're going to hate a fanbase because there are lots of jerks in it, at least be consistent and admit you hate ALL fanbases. Otherwise, stop using a broad brush and by implication insulting a fair chunk of this board (no matter what team's fanbase you are bashing).

And you again mis the point, I don't have to hate all fanbases, because having lived in San Diego, San Francisco, Charlotte, South Florida (Orlando, swarming with Dlphin and Tampa Fans), and of course Boston, the only group of fans I came to despise is the Boston one.

For christs sake man, I lived in San Fran during the MONTANA years and I'm a BENGALS fan! I have far more reason to hate them than anyone else, but you know what? Their fans, for the vast majority, didn't treat everyone else like fucking peons beneath their feet. They had some class. They gave real credit where it was due, they didn't go apeshit on people for daring to have an opinion that wasn't "Your team is god's gift"

And let's be clear here, I've brought this up 1 time on my own, this conversation was already steaming along the shitpile in this thread and most others I've ever mentioned the situation in. Don't dogpile MY ass when there are far more than just me stating where the problem lies.

I'm not the only one bitching about the fanbase, I'm just one of lhe loudest and most willing to let the frustration with the constant excuses out in whatever manner it feels like. Read the thread, I'm not alone here. If you don't want to listen to my opinion, fine, read the other half dozen that come along. We can't ALL just be lame ass haters, no matter how much most pat's fans would like to say so.

RendeR

10-30-2007, 01:35 AM

WVUFAN

10-30-2007, 01:56 AM

What I am saying is that in my experience of living in and amongst the New England region faithful I have come to understand thet they, in general, are FAR bigger assholes to other teams fans than I've seen anywhere else. Its not just the attitude, its the sheer NUMBER of people with the shitty attitude.

As a New England fan since I was 5, I will agree with you. Boston/New England fans are currently, on the whole, incredibly annoying and dickish.

As a 37 year old man, I can say the fans of Dallas in the 1990's were, on the whole, incredibly annoying and dickish.

The fans of the 49ers in the 1980's were incredibly annoying and dickish. See a pattern?

I'm not excusing it, but success breeds this sort of thing. In each circumstances, the teams I mentionend above were downtrodden in the years before they had their success, so fans, at least most of them, had nothing really to cheer for. Suddenly they had a "dynasty", and those years of frustration turned into callous and annoying behavior.

Not saying it's right, just saying why I think it exists. Patriot fans aren't alone in this -- this behavior will occur again the next team that dominated and wins Super Bowls over years. If the Colts repeat and win a few more down the road, Colts fans will be next.

I look at the "running up the score" thing from a business perspective, because pro football is moreso a business now than it was in the 70's -- there's much more at stake for players in today's game. You're asking a business to STOP performing so a competitor can look better. Doesn't make sense. It's in the best interest of the team to continue to dominate play whenever possible, because you'll have better attendence, and more sales of product the "better" you show up your opponent. There's nothing at all to gain by letting up when you could score again.

As for the score, I disagree with someone who said nothing would happen to the person who took out Brady on purpose. The NFL would roast that player alive. You might get away with it with another player, but if you did that to Manning when he was going for the TD record, or now with Brady, two selling points for the league, you don't do that to marquee players. Goddell would have his heart for lunch.

Vinatieri for Prez

10-30-2007, 02:41 AM

You know whats really kinda sad?

My oiginal post #141, was really an attempt to let my opinion out about exactly how and when i saw things change in new England in the nicest way I could. Yet, Gstelmack, and rkmsuf immediately took offense and instead of assuming I would KNOW there are always some decent fans supporting very team, they just went balistic and started a bitch-fest.

Now can some neutral party read that post of mine and honestly say I was tryin to be a prick? Or does it read more like I'm just telling it the way it happend for me? Maybe I am a prick, guess I'll have to live with that.

Well, I read post 141 and you were being a prick. You labelled ALL Pats fans in that post with one broad brush and said you didn't respect them. That's class A prick behavior. And then you are shocked a Pats fan gets defensive about it?!?!?!?

You know who I can't stand? . . . . People who don't like other team's fans. What a joke. Grow up.

Vinatieri for Prez

10-30-2007, 02:44 AM

You don;t see THAT in this day and age. But if the pats are up 50 next week and Brady is still in the game and a colts lineman rolls up his legs and puts him down for the season, what are they going to do?

nothing.

And the patriots and their fans will have only one person to blame, Bellicheck.

Why would I blame Belichick? That Brady got hurt while playing and trying to score points like he gets paid to do?

You know who else I can't stand? Someone who lived in Boston for 5 years or whatever and can't spell the names right of the people he professes to know so much about.

Vinatieri for Prez

10-30-2007, 02:47 AM

*grins*

Honestly, I would hope someone would step up and tel me if I become a real asshole if the bengals ever finally figure out how to win consistantly and *gasp* dominate the league.

I don't want to BE that fan. If nothing else, i've seen how the patriots following has become and It makes me sad.

You're already there AND the Bengals suck.

Vinatieri for Prez

10-30-2007, 02:49 AM

Holy crap, Brett Favre is amazing! :eek:

That was vintage turn the clock back stuff. It truly was amazing. That ball dropped out of the sky and hit Jennings on the dead run.

I've hated the Pack for awhile - for no other reason than beating the Pats in the SB and being a very good team in the 90s. Yep, that's all it takes. Don't mind their fans though. Some of my friends are Pack fans. They rubbed that stuff in 10 years back. However, I don't think they're classless in the least. :) Because that's what being a fan is about.

Anyways, the hate dissipated as the Pack got crappy (funny how that works) and now I'm officially on the Pack bandwagon. Absolutely loving the stout defense and Favre chucking it around. I would love nothing more than a rematch in the SB against them.

Vinatieri for Prez

10-30-2007, 03:18 AM

While I'm at it. Let me ask RendeR if he thought a fan was classless if he made these kinds of comments:

"This is going to be one unfuckingbelievable season!!! Yeah, green Bay sucks, but even against bad teams you shouldn't see 34 points in a half. Love this team, can't wait to watch them win Super Bowl 41!!"

"Good thing the Niners will spend the rest of this decade watching the Super Bowl at home then isn't it."

"At this point Chiefs fans have nothing more to look forward to than poking fun at other teams fans."

"Don't stress the chiefs fans, all they've got is talk."

"How about we just stop injecting Tom "My ass is god's toilet tissue" brady into every fucking NFL thread? hmmm? Perhaps not everyone gives a flying fuck about Tom "I'm on the perfect team for my abilities and have the best game planning coach" brady?"

"We should be able to be 6-0 heading into the toughest stretch of our schedule:

Atlanta at home
At baltimore
San Diego at home

I'm going to predict we take 2 of 3 of those, very optimistic, but 2 at home and we've been excellent in baltimore recently. I think we can get to 8-1."

"I'm jsut taking into account that their offense sucks ass."

"Maybe I tire of being ridiculed as I support what COULD be the best team in the AFC or perhaps the NFL this season?"

Although this is my all-time favorite: "Brady isn't Joe Cool anymore, he's showing his humanity. Palmer is a block of ice out there. And he's got more talent. Homer-ize over Brady all you want, Palmer is a better QB."

All this coming from a fan of a team that had sucked for years, done nothing to earn such talk.

I am pretty sure you know who said these things. You can find them all here in this thread: http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/showthread.php?t=52210

You see, I don't think it was classless. That's the fun about being a fan - talking smack (although it helps if you have a team that can back it up). But by your definition, anyone whoever met you would think "man, those bengals fans are assholes."

airulf

10-30-2007, 04:06 AM

I other news: Jeff George seeks comeback with Minnesota Vikings
http://www.twincities.com/allheadlines/ci_7313892?nclick_check=1

Jeff George seeks comeback with Minnesota Vikings
BY SEAN JENSEN
Pioneer Press
Article Last Updated: 10/29/2007 06:28:13 PM CDT

Want a blast from the past? Quarterback Jeff George hopes the Vikings give him a chance to repeat his performance in 1999, when he led the team to an 8-2 finish and a victory over the Dallas Cowboys in the playoffs.

Around lunchtime Monday, George contacted Paul Allen, the radio voice of the Vikings and the co-host of a morning show on KFAN-AM, to see if Allen could gauge the team's interest.

George told the Pioneer Press on Monday afternoon that he is intrigued by the potential of the Vikings' offense, as well as a chance to work with second-year quarterback Tarvaris Jackson.

"I know they're banged up," said George, 39. "But with a running back like Adrian Peterson, I would be licking my chops. With that running back, you need someone who can throw that deep ball, and I know I still can. I don't care about the talent at receiver."

George, who spent a week with the Oakland Raiders last season, hasn't thrown a pass in a regular season NFL game since 2001, when he started two games for the Washington Redskins.

Look for more on this story in Tuesday's paper.

Any idea if this will actually happen?

miami_fan

10-30-2007, 06:31 AM

As a New England fan since I was 5, I will agree with you. Boston/New England fans are currently, on the whole, incredibly annoying and dickish.

As a 37 year old man, I can say the fans of Dallas in the 1990's were, on the whole, incredibly annoying and dickish.

The fans of the 49ers in the 1980's were incredibly annoying and dickish. See a pattern?

I'm not excusing it, but success breeds this sort of thing. In each circumstances, the teams I mentionend above were downtrodden in the years before they had their success, so fans, at least most of them, had nothing really to cheer for. Suddenly they had a "dynasty", and those years of frustration turned into callous and annoying behavior.

Not saying it's right, just saying why I think it exists. Patriot fans aren't alone in this -- this behavior will occur again the next team that dominated and wins Super Bowls over years. If the Colts repeat and win a few more down the road, Colts fans will be next.

I look at the "running up the score" thing from a business perspective, because pro football is moreso a business now than it was in the 70's -- there's much more at stake for players in today's game. You're asking a business to STOP performing so a competitor can look better. Doesn't make sense. It's in the best interest of the team to continue to dominate play whenever possible, because you'll have better attendence, and more sales of product the "better" you show up your opponent. There's nothing at all to gain by letting up when you could score again.

As for the score, I disagree with someone who said nothing would happen to the person who took out Brady on purpose. The NFL would roast that player alive. You might get away with it with another player, but if you did that to Manning when he was going for the TD record, or now with Brady, two selling points for the league, you don't do that to marquee players. Goddell would have his heart for lunch.

Best post of the entire thread! BRAVO!

ISiddiqui

10-30-2007, 06:50 AM

You're asking a business to STOP performing so a competitor can look better. Doesn't make sense. It's in the best interest of the team to continue to dominate play whenever possible, because you'll have better attendence, and more sales of product the "better" you show up your opponent. There's nothing at all to gain by letting up when you could score again.

1) Sports leagues are NOT like regular businesses. Other businesses do not need their competitors to survive (and prosper) in order for them to prosper (unless they are subject to antitrust suits, but that's another story). Sports leagues require most, if not all, of the competitors to succeed. Otherwise, you aren't going to get any money. You think the Pats would be making much if they were a barnstorming team with no national TV deal?

2) I don't think that "dominating play" really will add to attendance. Winning will. Blowing everyone out, I'm not sure.

JeeberD

10-30-2007, 07:08 AM

So Tony Romo got his new contract... :)

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3085827&campaign=rss&source=ESPNHeadlines

Tony Romo didn't have to wait until the offseason to get his big payday from the Dallas Cowboys after all.

The Cowboys and their quarterback have reached an agreement on a six-year, $67.5 million contract extension, $30 million of which is guaranteed, sources told ESPN's Ed Werder and ESPN.com's Matt Mosley on Monday. The deal includes an $11.5 million signing bonus.

"Right now, we're just talking, but it's closer than it was before," Romo said late Monday. "I feel like I'm going to be with the Cowboys the rest of my career, definitely. I love it."

Romo's deal surpasses the six-year, $65 million contract ($27 million guaranteed) that St. Louis Rams quarterback Marc Bulger signed at the start of training camp. Romo and Bulger have the same agents, Ken Kremer and Tom Condon.

"It's a great feeling you have when the organization and the people stand behind you, and you can be the quarterback for a long, long time," Romo said. "It's a neat feeling that, 'You're our guy, we like you.' ... It makes you feel good as a person and a player."

Teammates feel good about it, too.

"It's a sense of relief that he's got it out of the way," center Andre Gurode said. "Now he can move on with the season. I'm happy he's going to be here for a long time."

Cowboys Pro Bowl tight end Jason Witten has been Romo's closest friend on the team since the two entered the league in 2003.

"He signed for $10,000 and his chances were slim," Witten said. "I told my wife that if anyone deserves that type of money, it's Tony."

Witten joked that he's hoping to benefit from the deal.

"I'm going to talk to him about taking care of my initiation fees at a local golf club," he said. "And maybe he can get us room upgrades on the road now."

Linebacker Akin Ayodele considers Romo's payday a message that the Cowboys are serious about returning to glory.

"He's the future of the team," Ayodele said. "To have him signed, that's important because you want to establish your quarterback who is going to lead you through things and win you championships"

Romo was in the final year of his contract and could have become a free agent at the end of the season. By signing him to a new deal before Nov. 5, the Cowboys will be able to apply some of this money toward their 2007 salary cap.

Owner Jerry Jones could not be reached for comment.

Romo hoped to get a new deal this past summer. Jones opted to let the relatively unproven quarterback go into his first year in charge just to make sure he was worth a huge commitment.

The answer came quickly. Romo was the NFC's offensive player of the month in September and Dallas finished October with the No. 1 offense in the conference.

Romo is in his fourth year in the NFL, but has started only 17 games. He's won 12 and done so in such dazzling fashion that Roger Staubach's grandson likes wearing Romo's No. 9 jersey, not his grandpa's No. 12.

"He's fun to watch," Staubach said recently.

Teammates agree. They often say that for all the great plays he's pulled off in games -- like running back 33 yards to recover an errant snap and turning it into a 4-yard gain -- he's done even more in practices. That's why they rallied behind him so well when he took over last season and why he was voted a team captain this year.

It's also why Dallas was able to pull off a comeback win in Buffalo a few weeks ago, with Romo leading the charge even after it was his five interceptions and a lost fumble that got the team in trouble.

"We definitely feed off him," Ayodele said. "You know you are always in a game to win it."

Romo burst onto the scene last October, with coach Bill Parcells sending him in to replace Drew Bledsoe at halftime of a Monday night game against the New York Giants. His first pass was an interception and that close game turned into a lopsided loss. Yet his career was about to take off.

Dallas won five of his first six starts in such spectacular fashion that some fans hung Romo's name on the Ring of Honor in Texas Stadium on Thanksgiving. And that was before kickoff, which meant prior to him matching a club record with five touchdown passes.

Punter Mat McBriar was thrilled to hear about the contract Monday evening.

"It's well-deserved," he said."He had to battle through a lot things, and he almost got squeezed out at one point. But he stuck around and had a good attitude. I think it's a great story. Underdogs come through sometimes, and he's one of those."

This season, Romo already has set the club record for 300-yard games. He leads the NFC with 1,984 yards passing and 16 touchdowns; both are second in the NFL behind Tom Brady.

Pretty good for a guy who wasn't drafted coming out of Division I-AA Eastern Illinois.

Cowboys scout Jim Hess recommended that the Cowboys sign Romo when he went undrafted. Fellow Eastern Illinois alum Sean Payton, then the Cowboys passing game coordinator, and assistant David Lee both played a large role in Romo's development. It was Lee, now the offensive coordinator at Arkansas, who changed the quarterback's throwing motion from a three-quarter delivery to more of an overhand style.

Lee noticed immediately that Romo had excellent footwork, and tried to build around that. If not for the release of Quincy Carter during the 2004 training camp, the world may have never known about Romo.

Carter had just led the team to the playoffs, and the Cowboys had traded a third-round draft choice to the Texans for Drew Henson. With Parcells favorite Vinny Testaverde on the roster, Romo may have been the odd man out.

With every great game Romo's had this season, Jones has known the pricetag for the new contract was rising. He figured it was worth it to reduce the risk. Besides, the better Romo does, the more money the team makes.

"A lot of times, you don't have a choice, so you've got to make a decision right there. But we have the luxury of time," Jones said recently. "It fits him, too. It lets him have a better feel for where he's going to be."

Being quarterback of "America's Team" has fit Romo quite nicely.

He's already dated country star Carrie Underwood and been linked in gossip magazines to Jessica Simpson and, as of this past weekend, Britney Spears. Romo spent his bye weekend in Los Angeles and wound up at the same place as Spears, landing him back in the tabloids.

"It comes with the territory, I guess," he said.

So do the big bucks.

Sadly, he may have just gotten a ton of diseases as well... :(

NSFW link

hXXp://www.idontlikeyouinthatway.com/2007/10/britney-gives-tony-romo-strikenightmaresstrike-a-lap-dance.html

Ryan "I Am Gay" Seacrest, was at Les Deux Friday night where Britney Spears was celebrating being a loser after her custody hearing and was witnessed giving Dallas Cowboys quarterback, Tony Romo, a lap dance.

I spoke to her for a minute. She seemed to be in a very, very good mood," he said on his KIIS-FM radio show this morning. "She had her sunglasses on. I said, 'Busy day, huh?' She kind of smiled and laughed and said, 'Yeah.' And then I believe I saw her and Tony Romo frolicking."

"Lap dancing?" a co-host asked.

"I mean some would say," Seacrest said.

"She's on his lap," the co-host continued.

"Yeah," Seacrest replied.

Usmagazine.com reported Spears (with longtime pal Alli Sims) first met up with Romo when they made a five-minute stop at Ketchup restaurant in L.A.after her frenzied custody court hearing on Friday. Spears and Sims left after about five minutes. The pair hit Les Deux around 10:30 p.m. Romo, 27 (who was recently linked to Sophia Bush), and his friends joined them a short time later. "She was dancing and talking a lot with Tony," an onlooker told Usmagazine.com. Spears, the witness added, "seemed in a really good mood and was super happy when [one of her] songs came on." Her pal Avril Lavigne also popped by her table to say hi. In typical Spears club style, the singer changed into a new dress and shades in a club bathroom midway through the night. By 1:15 a.m., Spears left with Sims, but returned to the club a short time later after realizing she accidentally left her cell phone behind."

dime

10-30-2007, 07:40 AM

bill belichick has a one-inch penis and wants to take it out on everyone. new englanders have an inferiority complex that doesn't go away even when the teams they root for are superior. neither of these things are new.

in all seriousness, I think the big difference between the cowboy/49er/yankee dynasties and the pats/red sox dynasties is that the former never were so sensitive to "criticism" as the latter. they didn't expect to be praised by other fans, and they didn't cry about being tarnished by those fans either. maybe that's because they were jerks and the new england fans are actual people, so they bleed when you cut them. I don't know.

new englanders are in a new, weird place for them --,they still identify themselves as the lovable underdogs full of baseball curses and football futility and so on even though they have a couple of juggernauts now...yet they still want to be loved and cheered for by everyone else. that just isn't a reasonable expectation.

the media's overexposure of the red sox and the many legitimately unlikeable qualities of the football team combine with each team's massive success to generate a lot of resentment and general fatigue. my advice is deal with it like big boys. act like you've been there before, even if you haven't.

Mizzou B-ball fan

10-30-2007, 07:45 AM

5 years ago today...........

"You play to win the game!"

---Herm Edwards

molson

10-30-2007, 07:56 AM

in all seriousness, I think the big difference between the cowboy/49er/yankee dynasties and the pats/red sox dynasties is that the former never were so sensitive to "criticism" as the latter.

The biggest difference is the emergence of the internet and message boards.

sterlingice

10-30-2007, 07:57 AM

Alan T

10-30-2007, 08:04 AM

I actually disagree with this but everyone seems to be ok with it. I think there are good and bad dynasties. Or, more specifically, dynasties that wear out their welcome sooner than others. For instance, 49ers fans were less obnoxious than Cowboys fans, Braves fans less than Yankees fans, etc. And that's where I think there needs to be some distinction.

SI

Perhaps it has something to do with how much passion those fans show that causes them to become borderline insufferable when they achieve success. I grew up in Atlanta and moved away in 1996, and even when the Braves were at their peak, they still didn't sell out ballgames and local sports shows talked as much about College football as the Braves. I then moved to Dallas who was right at the peak of the Cowboys success, and there you see the same type of behavior as you saw from yankees fans, or now Pats fans.. I think its just passion that is shown in an annoying light to many.

In the end, I loved when my Braves were among the best, and wish my Falcons would be. I don't have any problem with fans that enjoy their team's success. I mean I can just ignore them if they get too annoying. :) I think people who are lashing out at Pats fans now should re-evaluate why they even care probably. Just shrug it off and ignore people if they bug you.

molson

10-30-2007, 08:08 AM

new englanders are in a new, weird place for them --,they still identify themselves as the lovable underdogs full of baseball curses and football futility and so on even though they have a couple of juggernauts now...yet they still want to be loved and cheered for by everyone else. that just isn't a reasonable expectation.

I think there's a lot of truth here. Going from the Bad News Bears to the Yankees overnight (in more than one sport), is petty unusual. So when overnight, everyone suddenly decides you're as an asshole, after you spent your entire childhood rooting for losers, it makes THEM look like petty and insecure jerks who are jelous of the team's success. And they're not just insulting your team (which would be fine), they're insulting your whole life, where you grew up, where you're friends and family are. It's a prick move, and when you respond appropriately, then you're "obnoxious" and the wheels really start moving. Something of a self-fulfilling prophecy.

It actually can be an interesting discussion if you take a step back to look at it - but then you have a jerk like Render break out the "fucking idiot" card in an argument where his whole point is that OTHER people are jerks. Which is kind of funny. (Though I don't feel everyone is Buffalo is a jerk, because that would be silly)

miami_fan

10-30-2007, 08:18 AM

5 years ago today...........

"You play to win the game!"

---Herm Edwards

Someone may want to send a link of this rant to the Dolphins and the Rams.

dime

10-30-2007, 08:20 AM

I think there's a lot of truth here. Going from the Bad News Bears to the Yankees overnight (in more than one sport), is petty unusual. So when overnight, everyone suddenly decides you're as an asshole, after you spent your entire childhood rooting for losers, it makes THEM look like petty and insecure jerks. Because they're not just insulting your team (which would be fine), they're insulting your whole life, where you grew up, where you're friends and family are. It's a prick move, and when you respond appropriately, then you're "obnoxious" and the wheels really start moving. Something a self-fulfilling prophecy.

well I think what you're missing is the "we rooted for losers" part -- the red sox were never losers. just because the yankees won world series and you didn't, doesn't mean your team sucked. how many playoff games, all-star players, hall of fame players did red sox fans get to enjoy? a LOT...and yet they cried like they were poor orphans. that is kind of offensive and tiresome to fans in, say, texas or milwaukee or philadelphia or chicago or cleveland or seattle or montreal and so on. those fans "suffered" a lot more than any red sox fan.

the patriots were pretty hapless losers, yes. however, belichick has been hated by many long before he ever got to new england - he's just more of an asshole now than ever before, and the endless "we get no respect" chip-on-our-shoulder nonsense is just insulting to the intelligence of anyone who doesn't root for the patriots. I'm also not crazy about the wal-mart approach to personnel that they have, although the eagles share in the blame on this.

you could actually make a parallel between the red sox and the USA...during the cold war, the USA had some goodwill simply because they were the alternative to the Soviet Bloc (yankees?), whom everyone feared/hated. after the cold war, the USA really started throwing their weight around, and was surprised that they weren't universally beloved.

as for the internet, although there was no sports guy it was definitely around in the 49ers/cowboys/lakers days. the 49ers and cowboys had a red sox/yankee thing going on and everyone hated it just as much then as they do now.

Honolulu_Blue

10-30-2007, 08:25 AM

I never got why dre bly was supposed to be a plus corner. he's like a slow terrell buckley, gets burned deep for 6 every game I've seen him play.

I was also surprised how he totally gave up on that play. Once Jennings got to around the 20/15 yard line, Bly just pulled up and started jogging after him. Even Lady H_B made a comment on how lame that was.

Apparently, Bly was quite the "bad seed" in Detroit. He, along with James Hall and Marcus Bell, were considered among the "ringleaders" of an overall bad attitude in Detroit. Maranelli has done a decent job of getting rid of them in an attempt to hope to turn the team around. The only one he hung on to was Shaun Rogers because he is just too good.

Fidatelo

10-30-2007, 08:33 AM

molson

10-30-2007, 08:34 AM

well I think what you're missing is the "we rooted for losers" part -- the red sox were never losers. just because the yankees won world series and you didn't, doesn't mean your team sucked. how many playoff games, all-star players, hall of fame players did red sox fans get to enjoy? a LOT...and yet they cried like they were poor orphans. that is kind of offensive and tiresome to fans in, say, texas or milwaukee or philadelphia or chicago or cleveland or seattle or montreal and so on. those fans "suffered" a lot more than any red sox fan.

There's teams with far worse histories, true, and I definitely can understand how the hype of the "curse" could be annoying to the fans of the teams you mentioned. I think the entity to blame there is the media though. Boston fans are worried about Boston, and Rangers fans are worried about the Rangers. Boston fans aren't going to cry about how bad the Rangers' history is. It's not our fault that ESPN has decided (for a variety of reasons, largely population-based), that the curse was the biggest story of those teams.

Back to the self-fulfilling prophecy thing though - if you (and not meaning you, but anyone), treats everyone like they're assholes, they shouldn't be shocked if that's how those people start behaving. This weekend, we and my friend were harassed by probably around 15 Rocky fans total, some yelling about payroll, some yelling that we were bandwagon fans (which is funny because I've been a fan twice as long as the Rocky franchise has existed), and yes, a couple were working the whole "asshole fans" angle. And I can't speak for every Red Sox fan at the stadium, but I tend to be pretty quiet at sporting events - I'll never take ANYONE on in any kind of serious argument, at most there'll be good-natured back and forth banter.

But as I described above, I was actually physically shoved at one point in game 3, by someone I had had NO Previous interaction with. Between that, and people yelling at us outside the stadium, our primary instinct was just to live up to "character" the next game. I wanted to bring the brooms, mock the stadium, and the Rocky fans, most of whom had followed the team for about 3 weeks at that point. I didn't, because I didn't want to risk getting in a fight or something and get kicked out at the clinching game, but I can definitely see how it could happen.

The point is, if someone is going to decide that "Patriots fans are jerks", you're going to be treating them in a way that will make your perceptions true. But I'm pretty sure my parents aren't jerks, neither were my friends in the neighborhood, neither was the mailman, or the nice old guy across the street that let us play baseball in his yard. Or my first grade teacher, or the pastor at are church. They were are regular people.

I shouldn't care when it's all attacked (and I really don't, THAT much, but as someone said above, this is a message board, it's what you do, respond to stuff). I'm sure if there were message boards in the 60s the midwest and Yankee fans would be at each other's throats.

rkmsuf

10-30-2007, 08:36 AM

ISiddiqui

10-30-2007, 08:39 AM

molson

10-30-2007, 09:38 AM

Wow... brilliant post. And I think encapsulates a lot of the issue here. I actually had a Red Sox fan in my office who argued that the Sox should be the underdogs in the World Series because the Rockies had won 20 out of the last 21 games. Really? There is just something so offputting about wanting to be seen as underdogs when you have that much success and that much money.

If he said the Red Sox were going to sweep, you would have thought he was arrogant, ESPCIALLY if the series had turned out to be more competitive. (Look no further than the MLB playoff thread, where once the Indians went up 3-1, one guy posted about the "arrogant" Sox fans that thought before the series, that they would win.).

As a Red Sox/Pats fan on a message board and real-life conversations, I err on the side of giving credit to the other team, just to try to avoid these kind of labels. And now, we get criticized when we go too far in that direction.

So in a best of 7 series, a Red Sox fan is criticized if he picks either team to win. If we're confident about the team, we're arrogant. If we downplay their chances, we're obnoxiously playing the underdog card. Not that I care, I'm just pointing out the illogical nature of what we're dealing with.

This is the part of the thread where the blanket haters realize how illogical they are and just say, "well, you shouldn't cry about it because your team is successful", making one last attempt to make us the bad guy simply for responding.

EDIT: Holy shit, that guy in the other forum was YOU. Here's your quote:

"Yep... though it makes it easier to celebrate every Indians victory. Man, the BoSox fans in my office talking about sweep after Game 1 (and were pretty much talking about it before the series) was enough to make me retch."

LOL. I wonder if those were the same people in your office. They're predicting sweep, you want to retch. When the SAME people later give the Rockies credit for their great season, you consider that off-putting.

You sum up the typical illogical Red Sox/Pats area very concisely. Thanks for giving me material the next time this comes up.

ISiddiqui

10-30-2007, 09:54 AM

If he said the Red Sox were going to sweep, you would have thought he was arrogant

Actually... he said that too. Which I thought was strange... until he indicated that being the underdog and sweeping your opponent wasn't mutually exclusive and then I thought he was just nutty. But I've seen it too much to simply write him off as an exception.

edit: I actually did point out that you can't claim underdog status and then claim you are going to sweep the other team (I guess you can, though, thinking back... claiming how everyone is underrating you, etc), but he just ran away.

And I don't think you understand that THIS doublespeak is one of the big reasons we have a problem with your fanbase. As dice's post encapsulates. There is a 'love us, we're underdogs' type of attitude with 'how dare you dis us, we are so good' ideal that is quite jarring.

And now, we get criticized when we go too far in that direction.

Calling yourself an underdog when you are quite clearly a favorite is more than just going "too far". It's Lou Holtz like bull.

So in a best of 7 series, a Red Sox fan is criticized if he picks either team to win. If we're confident about the team, we're arrogant. If we downplay their chances, we're obnoxiously playing the underdog card. Not that I care, I'm just pointing out the illogical nature of what we're dealing with.

Uhhh... no. But thanks for playing the "we're doomed no matter what we do card". You can be confident without being arrogant. You can downplay your chances without obnoxiously playing the underdog card. There is a line. It isn't a you are with us or against us.

This is the part of the thread where the blanket haters realize how illogical they are and just say, "well, you shouldn't cry about it because your team is successful", making one last attempt to make us the bad guy simply for responding.

Woe is us! Look how we is picked on!