Official 2007-2008 College Basketball Thread

[Kodos]

I'm not a fan of Sampson. I wish we had a different coach who could follow the rules.

That being said, cowboy up Illini fans. Stuff happens.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

But I'm not inclined to be sympathetic to poor Eric Gordon.

That's because you're from Illinois. Gordon did nothing wrong. A verbal commitment is non-binding and they know that. Weber can be pissed all he wants, but he should be man enough to shake someone's hand after a ballgame. It's a poor example to set as a head coach and mentor of college-age kids.

[Johnny93g]

Only a deluded Hoosiers fan could watch what happened with the Eric Gordon saga, observe the continued violations by Sampson, and conclude that Weber is the one that is classless. I'm astonished that the same fan base that used to crow about their integrity with Bob Knight as coach can make statements like this.

Bruce Weber is Classless.

An article on yesterday's game from the CHICAGO Sun-times



February 8, 2008
BY JAY MARIOTTI Sun-Times Columnist
CHAMPAIGN -- It wasn't cool. It wasn't a brassy display of school spirit. It wasn't a proud act of jock manhood. No, what Chester Frazier did Thursday night was a low-class, not-thinking cheap shot that shames Bruce Weber, the Illinois basketball program and, you know, whatever perceptions a national TV audience may have had about common decency in the heartland.

As if there weren't enough crazed fans in Assembly Hall, as if there weren't enough uniformed police and security guards overseeing a tense scene, the Illini point guard inflamed a hyper-emotional recruiting grudge match with an unnecessary pre-game message. When it came time to introduce Eric Gordon -- the biggest pariah in central Illinois since Bob Knight, the future NBA star who blew off an oral commitment to Illinois to sign with Indiana -- Frazier raced out to center court with more than the usual handshake.

» Click to enlarge image

Indiana's Eric Gordon
(AP file)

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Hoosiers pull it out in double overtime He lowered his shoulder and popped Gordon in the chest like a linebacker pile-driving a receiver, knocking him backward as a raucous crowd roared. Given the sensitivity of the scene, this was about as wise as throwing a pound of ground chuck to a pack of pit bulls. Gordon looked at the Indiana bench in disbelief. His father, Eric Sr., sat nearby and wondered what the rest of the night would hold, thankful he'd hired a security guard for his son. Throughout a wild, embarrassing evening that included an ESPN report of Illini fans throwing beads into a section where Gordon's family was sitting -- and security men preventing at least one Indiana fan from climbing into the stands in retaliation -- you realized Frazier had exacerbated the frenzy.

Dumb, dumb, dumb.

``The chest bump was out of line,'' analyst Jay Bilas said.

``Maybe they could have called a technical foul,'' Gordon Sr. said.

Or, maybe Weber should have yanked Frazier out of the lineup to make a statement about good sportsmanship. But the coach, known as Mr. Nice Guy, simply stood and watched, as if he approved of the act. ``I'm sure it wasn't anything malicious,'' Weber said later, oblivious to the night's context.

This was not a good night for Illinois, even before Gordon banked in a three-pointer to force overtime, before Shaun Pruitt missed three potential game-winning free throws, before Michael Jordan's kid hit a jumpshot and before the Illini fell 83-79 in double overtime to the insanely harassed Gordon and the 14th-ranked Hoosiers. From the minute the doors of the ancient building opened, fans were too fired up about the story line. During warmups, the students stood in all their orange-covered rage, pointing at Gordon as he stretched on the court, abusing him in a 360-degree taunt that might have been scary if a bearded, Sasquatch-sized security man wasn't nearby in a headset.

``Traitor! Traitor! Traitor!'' they chanted.

``Liar! Liar! Liar!'' they continued, louder.

``Sellout! Sellout! Sellout!'' they continued, louder.

And this was 30 minutes before tipoff. When Gordon emerged from the tunnel for the game, as a jazzed-up version of ``Welcome to the Jungle'' ripped over the loudspeakers, it felt like more like a bullfighting pit than a college rivalry. From the Orange Krush student section to even some of the townies, this was a chance to blame all the recent frustrations of Illinois basketball on the brilliant guard from Indianapolis who bailed on an Illini commitment to sign with Indiana.

``(Bleep) you, Gordon! (Bleep) you, Gordon!'' the students pummeled him all night, from many parts of the arena. When they weren't cursing him, they were booing him, every time he touched the ball, every time he breathed. And when it became apparent that they were getting to him, with Gordon missing all four of his first-half shots and managing one point, they launched a new chant: ``In your head! In your head!''

At least it was a clean chant. I asked Gordon Sr. what he thought of the reception. ``What I expected,'' he said.

Which was what? ``Who they are,'' he said.

And what did Weber think of the fans? ``We couldn't ask for more from the crowd,'' he said, clueless again. ``They were tremendous.''

As great players do, Gordon shut out the calamity. In the second half, he settled down, got to the free-throw line and helped Indiana survive the nuthouse. ``I wasn't really worried about it,'' he said, looking half-asleep. ``The only thing I was worried about was trying to get a win.''

As for Frazier's chest bump? ``Yeah, well, that's what he did. And you can't worry about that,'' Gordon said. ``I'm just glad what happened at the end of the game ... It's just another Big Ten game on the road. They're a good team, it's hard to win here.''

Indiana coach Kelvin Sampson, who is almost as reviled around here as Gordon, thought the pre-game taunts were out of bounds. ``I have to be honest, I heard the stuff during warmups,'' he said. ``But once the game started, I just heard the noise. We talked about this with our team. It's a 94-foot slab of rectangular wood out there. At the end of the day, this is what we do. It shouldn't be something that affects you.''

And in the interests of civility, Sampson did his best to downplay the Frazier bump. ``I don't think it was anything malicious,'' he said, curiously using the same phrase as Weber. ``I don't think he was trying to do anything hyperkinetic. I think he was hyped.''

Overhyped.

I almost wish sideline reporter Erin Andrews, the most popular female on American college campuses, would have been here to distract the rowdy lads. Instead, ESPN assigned Patrick Forde, who didn't interest them. All I have to say is: Come on, you're smarter than that at the University of Illinois, a top 25 institution of higher learning. I realize the clownish Andy Richter and various media buffoons went here, but so did Nobel laureates, Pulitzer Prize winners, the co-founders of YouTube, Roger Ebert, the inventor of the Plasma screen and, of course, Hef.

They would tell you that recruiting is a rough business, that Weber might not be slick enough to survive. Like the endless angst over Chief Illiniwek's passing, it's time to move past Gordon and ponder more current issues: Such as, what in the name of Deron Williams and Dee Brown has happened to your hoops program? Brown was in the house for the game, saluted like a god as he waved to the crowd, and Williams delivered a simple videotaped message from his all-world perch in Utah: ``Beat Indiana.''

But nothing will change the fact that Gordon isn't coming. He'll spend one season at Indiana and head to the highest levels of the NBA lottery. ``I think I made the better choice of staying here at Indiana,'' Gordon said before he stepped into the madness. ``Basically, coach gave me all the freedom I want. He promised me that, and he's living up to that.''

The much bigger issue is what has happened to Weber's program since Gordon's flip-flop, which the overcaffeinated athletic director, Ron Guenther, still describes as a ``defection.'' An elite national program would have shaken off the tough blow and carried on as usual. But only of late has Weber started to recruit sufficiently enough to hush criticism that he's headed for an unhappy ending in Champaign, where the Illini are now 2-9 in the Big Ten.

The focus should be on Weber and whether he can revive a sinking ship that only three years ago was a rocket veering toward the national championship game. He won with Bill Self's players, as he hears at least once an hour his every working day, but by any measure, he has failed to capitalize on that high-profile, national-spotlight moment.

Sure, he has had some difficult circumstances -- Gordon, Jamar Smith's DUI arrest, academic issues. But really now, don't all programs have issues? The good programs overcome them, the mediocre programs do not, and I remind you that Weber doesn't preside over a mid-major that should be protected by media apologists. This is ILLINOIS. And the Deron-and-Dee momentum is gone. Weber has a staunch defender in Guenther, who recently told the Sun-Times that he expects to extend a contract that already runs through 2012.

But Weber must contend for conference titles. And fretting about Gordon isn't the way to do so. Funny thing was, Weber said before the game that the issue was dead. ``We've moved beyond it. We just have to move forward with what we have and do the best we can,'' he said.

Frazier echoed those feelings. ``He didn't let me down. It was his choice,'' he said of Gordon. ``At the end of the day, he has to do what's going to benefit him.''

But not without giving him a pointed shot in the chest.

Sad.

You can say whatever you would like about Coach Sampson's violations. I was not impressed with them. He was punished, the program was punished and still maybe punished further, but Coach Sampson shakes everyone of his opponents hands, he praises his opponents after games. That's called sportsmanship. Coach Weber, runs off the court after barely shaking Sampson's hand, and defend's his players thuggery.

Bruce Weber is classless. They are 0-2 against IU this year, and thats what they deserve

[hoopsguy]

Johnny, I guess we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one. I'm honestly not sure you understand the idea of "class" well enough to call anyone classless if your measuring stick is that a repeat cheater shaking hands with people he has cheated.

I hope that Indiana gets what they deserve for soiling themselves with Sampson.

[Kodos]

While I agree that IU has soiled themselves with Sampson, I think you're being a bit pathetic.

[Johnny93g]

Johnny, I guess we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one. I'm honestly not sure you understand the idea of "class" well enough to call anyone classless if your measuring stick is that a repeat cheater shaking hands with people he has cheated.

I hope that Indiana gets what they deserve for soiling themselves with Sampson.

Eric Gordon didnt want to goto Illinois, which means Sampson cheated Bruce Weber...

The kid CHANGED HIS MIND.

Get over it.

[hoopsguy]

While I agree that IU has soiled themselves with Sampson, I think you're being a bit pathetic.

I'll redirect. Do you think that Bruce Weber is classless based on his, and his programs, conduct since the Gordon saga went down. Why or why not?

[Kodos]

I didn't call Weber classless. Although he's been a big baby concerning the whole Eric Gordon saga.

[hoopsguy]

Right, the other Indiana fan did. And I responded to that assertion. I would probably have taken a different tack if the claim had been "Weber could/should have handled this better".

We're all fans of programs, based on posting in this thread. We are all bringing some biases to the table. I get that, and I'm as guilty of it as the next guy. I'm far from the most fervent Weber fan in Block I, but I found that "classless" statement to border on ridiculous. He is widely regarded as one of the nice guys in the business and he is clean to a fault in running his program.

[INDalltheway]

My Hoosiers are now 19-3, 8-1 in the Big Ten. Hoping they put together a little winning streak down the strech. We got a few battle with Michigan St. coming up which will decide the conference championship.

How bout them Boilermakers?

[Dunleavy]

the whole idea of praising spamson while calling Weber class-less is absrud

as for idkwti, he didn't just change his mind. he walked Illinois out into the middle of the desert, then he said peace and left on a chopper leaving the Illinois program lost and without water, mediforically speaking ofcourse

[Kodos]

Last season, IU's football team lost verbal commit Jeremy Finch to Florida on a last-second defection on signing day. He would have been the highest-rated commit in over a decade. It was upsetting, but fans haven't held onto it and obsessed over it. I realize it's a bit different because IU and Illinois are in the same conference, but at some point, you have to let go on stuff like this. It happens to everyone. IU was the stealer this time. At some point again, they will be the victim. The way the Illini fanbase has internalized the defection of a player who will be one and done is a bit amazing.

Go ahead and hate Sampson if you must. I don't like him either. I wish he was gone. And if sanctions are brought against IU, I will be in the camp that says we got what was coming to us for hiring Sampson in the first place. It was very disappointing to me when he was hired. It shows misplaced priorities. Say what you will about Bobby Knight (another guy who was not my favorite), he ran a clean program. Not so much with Sampson, and that has been a disappointment for me.

[hoopsguy]

Kodos, Illinois has benefitted from several de-commits in football in this most recent class, two of them notably from Iowa.

That said, football and basketball have - in the past - held different standards regarding the continued recruitment of players after a verbal commitment. This is especially true within the conference, as demonstrated by the backlash by the conference commissioners and public statements of other Big 10 coaches at the time. Is it right or wrong that there are different standards? Beats me. In a head-in-the-sand moment I would tell you that I wish all players would honor their commitments, but that isn't the real world.

Would it make more sense to you if they were lamenting the defection of a less talented player who would be around for four years instead of a one-and-done? I think many Illini fans find it convenient to blame the Gordon saga on Indiana and think about what could have been if you plugged in a go-to scorer at the shooting guard position on this years team. It is pretty easy to convince myself that the team would have 5 more wins, just by virtue of closing out games better than the currently assembled motley crew.

[Kodos]

I just think a one-year player, no matter how talented he might be, can only do so much good for a team. I would take Calbert Cheaney over Eric Gordon any time.

[hoopsguy]

Only problem with that logic is that you don't know when a Calbert Cheaney comes to the program that he is going to be that kind of four year performer. He is, most of the time, seen as a building block but not a program-builder when you are talking about a perennial Top 25 caliber team.

To pick between two fairly similarly hyped Illini players coming in, he could be Deron Williams (yeah, I know he only played 3) or Rich McBride (who was higher rated by most systems coming out of HS).

[watravaler]

Eric Gordon and his family doesn't deserve your respect or pity. He could have easily told Illinois and Bruce Weber that he was having second thoughts and/or simply decomitted. He didn't, he lied to the coaching staff till the very end. It screwed the Illinois basketball program out of a few excellent recruits in the process. Of course, some fans took the thing too far, but again, don't feel sorry for the kid, he had the ribbing coming...

Nevertheless, it's all in the past now, and I'm glad to see the IU-UI rivalry heating up once again...

I'll take four years of McCamey over a year of Gordon, although the Illini would most certainly be a tournament team with Gordon...sigh...at least the best recruiting classes the Illini program has ever seen are on the way...2009 can't get hear soon enough...

[Johnny93g]

How bout them Boilermakers?

LOL...I hope the Hoosiers don't look past them like i did. They are having a fantastic Big Ten season

[Johnny93g]

the whole idea of praising spamson while calling Weber class-less is absrud

as for idkwti, he didn't just change his mind. he walked Illinois out into the middle of the desert, then he said peace and left on a chopper leaving the Illinois program lost and without water, mediforically speaking ofcourse


How serious can I take you when you lower yourself to name calling.

[Dunleavy]

huh? who'd i call what?

[hoopsguy]

IDKWTI = Illini fan code for Gordon. "I Don't Know Who That Is", referencing a Deron Williams quote when asked about Gordon switching over to Indiana.

His variation on "You're dead to me, Fredo".

[Ryno]

He could have easily told Illinois and Bruce Weber that he was having second thoughts and/or simply decomitted. He didn't, he lied to the coaching staff till the very end. It screwed the Illinois basketball program out of a few excellent recruits in the process.

That pretty much sums up my thoughts on the matter.

On a side note, everyone seems to think Gordon is one and done. He's certainly a talented player, but do 6'3" shooting guards usually get drafted after one year of college?

[Chief Rum]

Only a deluded Hoosiers fan could watch what happened with the Eric Gordon saga, observe the continued violations by Sampson, and conclude that Weber is the one that is classless. I'm astonished that the same fan base that used to crow about their integrity with Bob Knight as coach can make statements like this.

Sampson had issues running a legit program at Oklahoma, and has had other issues at IU besides Gordon. I'm not sure how anyone can look at him and think things are on the up and up now.

I can't find what is specifically tripping in my memory about his Wazzu stint either, but I feel like there was stuff going on there, too. Maybe WSUCougar can help recall. I remember wondering how in the heck he got the Oklahoma job from what he did at Wazzu, and that has stuck with me through the years.

[Chief Rum]

That pretty much sums up my thoughts on the matter.

On a side note, everyone seems to think Gordon is one and done. He's certainly a talented player, but do 6'3" shooting guards usually get drafted after one year of college?

Mayo is even shorter and supposedly gone. As is Rose, I believe.

Not sure what everyone thinks of Bilas, but I think he is usually a pretty solid analyst, and he said Gordon, Rose, Mayo and Beasley are absolute locks to go pro from among the star frosh this season (and will probably be the top four picks).

He cites as his evidence for smallish guards going pro, BTW, the continued success of AI, and the more recent small man additions of Ben Gordon and Deron Williams, among others, as reasons why small scoring guards in college are less afraid to go pro right away.

[Chief Rum]

Bruce Weber is Classless.

An article on yesterday's game from the CHICAGO Sun-times





You can say whatever you would like about Coach Sampson's violations. I was not impressed with them. He was punished, the program was punished and still maybe punished further, but Coach Sampson shakes everyone of his opponents hands, he praises his opponents after games. That's called sportsmanship. Coach Weber, runs off the court after barely shaking Sampson's hand, and defend's his players thuggery.

Bruce Weber is classless. They are 0-2 against IU this year, and thats what they deserve

Yeah, gotta agree with this. Sampson is no winner, but no one in Illinois--in particular Weber--looks good here either.

Reminds me of the Oregon-UCLA game ten days ago, where the Oregon fans were heaping hate messages and personal insults at Oregon native and UO legacy Kevin Love because he chose to go to Westwood instead. A high school "friend" even gave out Love's cellphone number in advance, so he got tons of hate mail as text messages and voicemails (so much he had to pretty much put away the phone until he could change his number). It got so bad his dad, Stan Love, refuses to ever go back there--where he himself was a star--and the OU AD had to come out a few days later to apologize publically for the whole affair.

And all that seems tame next to this IU-Illini situation.

(BTW, Love let his play do the talking and dominated the game in a tough road win for the Bruins).

[Ryno]

Mayo is even shorter and supposedly gone. As is Rose, I believe.

Not sure what everyone thinks of Bilas, but I think he is usually a pretty solid analyst, and he said Gordon, Rose, Mayo and Beasley are absolute locks to go pro from among the star frosh this season (and will probably be the top four picks).

He cites as his evidence for smallish guards going pro, BTW, the continued success of AI, and the more recent small man additions of Ben Gordon and Deron Williams, among others, as reasons why small scoring guards in college are less afraid to go pro right away.

Rose, Mayo, AI, and Williams are all point guards though. Eric Gordon is a pure shooting guard as far as I can tell. It's been years since I've seen any NBA games, but that used to be a pretty big distinction.

I thought it would have been unprecedented for an undersized SG to be drafted as an underclassman, but I did a quick look at the past 6-7 NBA drafts, and found one - Louis Williams drafted by the 76'ers out of high school. It's very rare, but apparently possible. I'll have to defer to the experts, but I wouldn't be surprised at all if he comes back for at least one more year.

[Chief Rum]

Rose, Mayo, AI, and Williams are all point guards though. Eric Gordon is a pure shooting guard as far as I can tell. It's been years since I've seen any NBA games, but that used to be a pretty big distinction.

Ben Gordon is a pure shooting guard.

Point is, they are all "scoring guards" rather than distributors, and they all were or will be drafted high, and all will likely succeed at the pro level.

[Dunleavy]

Yeah, gotta agree with this. Sampson is no winner, but no one in Illinois--in particular Weber--looks good here either.

Reminds me of the Oregon-UCLA game ten days ago, where the Oregon fans were heaping hate messages and personal insults at Oregon native and UO legacy Kevin Love because he chose to go to Westwood instead. A high school "friend" even gave out Love's cellphone number in advance, so he got tons of hate mail as text messages and voicemails (so much he had to pretty much put away the phone until he could change his number). It got so bad his dad, Stan Love, refuses to ever go back there--where he himself was a star--and the OU AD had to come out a few days later to apologize publically for the whole affair.

And all that seems tame next to this IU-Illini situation.

i'm not fimilier with the Love-UCLA-ORE trinagle but in the Illinois-Gordon deal there was and is a far amount of resentment against Gordon for leading Illinois on even after he had changed his mind, Sr. Gordon played a part in this as well (i.e. he's no Illinois hero past or present). after reading what you said happened during the game and the context of both i'm not sure how you can say that the Illini situation was way worse. i still can't believe how bad Illinois basketball got killed nationally by all the talking heads. during the UI vs IU game there was a pre game bump, a kinda of but not really hard foul, and a lot of booing. now in the stands one jackars threw some beeds and a few others yelled profanities but it seemed like they had a half dozen security and police around them handling the situation. no doubt it was a hostle enviroment but everyone knew it would be but there were no crimes against humanity here

edit: Rum, i'm just venting b/c of all the t.v. heads over reacting per par

[Chief Rum]

edit: Rum, i'm just venting b/c of all the t.v. heads over reacting per par

Understood.

It's not about assessing blame, but about the general tenor of the whole situation.

There just seems to be a lot more ugliness to this than the Love-Oregon thing, and it has gone beyond insults to the physical, and wasn't just held up with fans but involved players and coaches as well.

On every level, the Illinois-Indiana situation has exceeded the Love-Oregon except perhaps for the cellphone thing, and the Love-UO thing was significantly hostile.

[Radii]

UCLA/Washington heading for a good finish, Washington leads 59-53 with 5 minutes left.

[Groundhog]

I didn't realise Brady was fired at LSU? Wow. That's pretty harsh IMO. Any LSU fans on here got any thoughts?

[MJ4H]

I'm disappointed. I wanted him to stay there a long time. (iow they should've canned him ages ago)

[GoldenEagle]

UCLA goes down, again. I am just not sure how people can consistently say they are the best team in the country.

[dawgfan]

Big, big win for the UW today, knocking off UCLA 71-61. Huskies probably won't make even the NIT this year, but this is a big win for a program that has been struggling this season to live up to the expectations from a couple years back, and should prove to the team that they are capable of playing much better than they have of late.

[Radii]

Washington 71. UCLA 61. I only saw the last 5 minutes or so but there is no way UCLA should have lost this. Washington missed 6 straight free throws at one point and was 12-25 until the last 30 seconds or so. Down 6 with 45 seconds to go UCLA tried a 3/4 court inbounds pass into traffic after giving up a layup that resulted in a turnover, just didn't look good at all towards the end.

[Karlifornia]

UCLA goes down, again. I am just not sure how people can consistently say they are the best team in the country.

There are no nights off in the PAC-10...well..maybe Oregon State...It will serve the Bruins well come tournament time...

As an aside, Stanford is now tied for the PAC-10 lead!

[Karlifornia]

Can Clemson finally get over the hump and win a big ACC game? They've started well, but you know UNC is going to make a run.

[Radii]

UCLA goes down, again. I am just not sure how people can consistently say they are the best team in the country.

I've been saying Kansas! ;) Can't wait to see Tennessee/Memphis in a couple weeks, maybe that'll convince me otherwise.

[Chief Rum]

UCLA goes down, again. I am just not sure how people can consistently say they are the best team in the country.

That's a "you" problem.

Not sure they are either (and certainly didn't show it today), but the reason you can't see it is because you don't like that we call you out on Memphis and that we beat you when it counted.

[Radii]

Can Clemson finally get over the hump and win a big ACC game? They've started well, but you know UNC is going to make a run.

I don't think UNC is going to make a run, honestly. Without Lawson, UNC had 7 turnovers in the first 4 minutes. Clemson with good size actually matches up better with UNC to exploit UNC's problems without a point guard. Ellington was cold vs Duke but he was also struggling to get open shots and forcing too much, again without anyone to run the offense, leaving only Hansbrough who without a floor leader gets ignored for 4-5 minutes at a time. I don't think there's a run coming.

[Groundhog]

leaving only Hansbrough who without a floor leader gets ignored for 4-5 minutes at a time. I don't think there's a run coming.

The few UNC games I've seen this year remind me of the Orlando Magic games I've seen, where I spend 75% of the game wondering why they don't just give the damn ball to Howard/Hansbrough every time down the court.

Must suck to be a bigman at times, especially when you've got scoring guards on the roster.

[Chief Rum]

Big, big win for the UW today, knocking off UCLA 71-61. Huskies probably won't make even the NIT this year, but this is a big win for a program that has been struggling this season to live up to the expectations from a couple years back, and should prove to the team that they are capable of playing much better than they have of late.

UCLA's inconsistency is troubling, and makes me doubt this team can go as far as the past two, even if it has more overall talent than those teams.

UDub had a great gameplan today and came to play, with heart and toughness. And Dentmon was just abusing Collison, which is saying something (prior to today, can't remember the last time that happened).

Washington should have won it by even more--they were absolutely horrid at the line.

As for UCLA, just an awful game. Collison was terrible today (and once again, it's extremely rare to say that). Shipp has been in a funk for a month now. Once again, missing Luc hurt us defensively. And most importantly--a consistent issue with this UCLA team--we are amazingly stagnant offensively in the half court offense when we're not hitting from outside. It's the big issue I have consistently seen with Howland's teams. I used to think it was becuase he couldn't find a quality big man. I now think it's because he just isn't a very good half-court offensive game coach.

[Chief Rum]

There are no nights off in the PAC-10...well..maybe Oregon State...It will serve the Bruins well come tournament time...

As an aside, Stanford is now tied for the PAC-10 lead!

Yup, Stanford deserves to be there, too, with the way they have been playing. It will be a great matchup at Pauley.

[Chief Rum]

Washington 71. UCLA 61. I only saw the last 5 minutes or so but there is no way UCLA should have lost this. Washington missed 6 straight free throws at one point and was 12-25 until the last 30 seconds or so. Down 6 with 45 seconds to go UCLA tried a 3/4 court inbounds pass into traffic after giving up a layup that resulted in a turnover, just didn't look good at all towards the end.

That lasted the whole game, really. There was never a point where UCLA looked good in this game. Kudos to UDub.

[Chief Rum]

I've been saying Kansas! ;) Can't wait to see Tennessee/Memphis in a couple weeks, maybe that'll convince me otherwise.

I think Memphis and Kansas have the edge now. I would probably lean Kansas for now since they play in the Big 12, but what does it matter? It will all be decided in March.

[Radii]

The few UNC games I've seen this year remind me of the Orlando Magic games I've seen, where I spend 75% of the game wondering why they don't just give the damn ball to Howard/Hansbrough every time down the court.

When they're healthy and have Lawson running the show, they're scoring so much in transition and finding the right person for the right shot so often(and so quickly), that its ok. But without the floor leader, they're playing about 95% of their possessions in a half court set and then you're exactly right, Hansbrough should touch the ball nearly every possession and kick it back out if he doesn't have great position/an advantage inside. For some reason that just doesn't happen enough.

[MrBug708]

Collison is still fighting the effects of being sick and it showed. Worst game of his career IMO. DC is 3/23 his last two trips to UW and the team plays terrible there

[MrBug708]

UCLA goes down, again. I am just not sure how people can consistently say they are the best team in the country.

LOL. I know this is directed at me, but your ignorance is obviously showing.

Karl...you should give all the UW's a nice gift for letting you guys back in the race :)

[Radii]

I think Memphis and Kansas have the edge now. I would probably lean Kansas for now since they play in the Big 12, but what does it matter? It will all be decided in March.

Oh I guess everyone answers that question differently then. When I answer the "who I think is best" its always in terms of who I think is set up the best to be the team I expect to be the favorite in the tournament. Memphis, until they prove otherwise, will never be my favorite. No team playing in a conference like CUSA will be IMO. It takes a 1990 UNLV level of talent to overcome the lack of intensity that the team needs to get through conference schedule. Memphis has good players, and a good coach, but if they make the final four, I'll be surprised, and if they win it all I'll be freaking stunned.

Its not the BCS, everyone gets their chance, and if they can win 6 in a row in March, grats to them. But I'll believe it when I see it. And I think history is *strongly* on my side on this.

[sterlingice]

I think Memphis and Kansas have the edge now. I would probably lean Kansas for now since they play in the Big 12, but what does it matter? It will all be decided in March.

I think we've all learned that trying to predict March is folly. Don't get me wrong, I like our chances. But to expect the tourney to be anything more than a crapshoot, even if you're in the top 10ish teams, is folly.

SI

[Groundhog]

Definately agree re: Memphis. I like their team and enjoy watching them play, but I don't see them being serious contenders. They could easily prove me wrong if they get hot in March, but right now I don't see it.

[Radii]

Clemson 45-34 at the half. Clemson is outrebounding UNC, outshooting them, and has forced 13 turnovers. Ellington did get hot and hit a couple 3's in a row in spots where Clemson was really heating up, leaving the outcome at least somewhat still in question. Clemson slowed the game down a bit towards the end of the half because they were getting a little careless, but I expect the second half to be more of the same.

[GoldenEagle]

That's a "you" problem.

Not sure they are either (and certainly didn't show it today), but the reason you can't see it is because you don't like that we call you out on Memphis and that we beat you when it counted.

Did I say anything about Memphis? I am talking about the talking heads like Hubert Davis and Steve Lavin who say that UCLA is the best team in the country.

Sheesh, a little defensive after a loss huh?

[Chief Rum]

Did I say anything about Memphis? I am talking about the talking heads like Hubert Davis and Steve Lavin who say that UCLA is the best team in the country.

Sheesh, a little defensive after a loss huh?

No, not at all, actually. It's a fact you hate UCLA. Anyone who has seen your responses to me and Bug over the past couple years knows this.

[GoldenEagle]

LOL. I know this is directed at me, but your ignorance is obviously showing.

Karl...you should give all the UW's a nice gift for letting you guys back in the race :)

How is ignorance showing? Or is this another random MrBug post that no one really understands?

[GoldenEagle]

No, not at all, actually. It's a fact you hate UCLA. Anyone who has seen your responses to me and Bug over the past couple years knows this.

I have no problem with UCLA. I think Bug is an idiot, but I have never thought that you are.

[MrBug708]

How is ignorance showing? Or is this another random MrBug post that no one really understands?

You don't think UCLA is as good as people say? You are obviously bold enough to make that statement now, when they are missing two of its top seven players. That's why people think you are ignorant when it comes to college hoops.

As for posts nobody understands, I can't help you with that

[MrBug708]

I have no problem with UCLA. I think Bug is an idiot, but I have never thought that you are.

LOL. You're the one making asinine comments but I'm the idiot? I'm sorry you take offense when I mock Joey Dorsey but I didn't think you'd take it so personal.

[GoldenEagle]

You don't think UCLA is as good as people say? You are obviously bold enough to make that statement now, when they are missing two of its top seven players. That's why people think you are ignorant when it comes to college hoops.

As for posts nobody understands, I can't help you with that

No, I do not think UCLA is the best team in the country. I think the media has over hyped them. I think that they are solid team, very capable of winning the national championship. But at this time, due to the results of their games, I do not believe they are the best team in the country.

[GoldenEagle]

LOL. You're the one making asinine comments but I'm the idiot? I'm sorry you take offense when I mock Joey Dorsey but I didn't think you'd take it so personal.

I am not taking anything personal. You are the one that has such a hate for Memphis that you can not stand when they do well and have personal vendetta toward some of players from Memphis.

I do not hate UCLA. I never have. You take your hatred of everything involved with Memphis to the next level.

[Chief Rum]

I have no problem with UCLA. I think Bug is an idiot, but I have never thought that you are.

I appreciate that. Never thought you were an idiot, either. Devoted to your Tigers, but certainly not an idiot.

That said, while I don't think you're sitting there with vitriol for UCLA (I overstated), I do think your inclination is to assume they're overhyped, maybe because of your disagreements with me (or more likely with Bug).

I think the evidence supports what people said about UCLA up to today, and I suspect their opinions changed today, which will be shown over the next few days. So UCLA will have to go on another run and "re-prove" themselves (which is only fair, given how crappy they played today).

[MrBug708]

I am not taking anything personal. You are the one that has such a hate for Memphis that you can not stand when they do well and have personal vendetta toward some of players from Memphis.

I do not hate UCLA. I never have. You take your hatred of everything involved with Memphis to the next level.

To the next level? What are you talking about? Yes I have a dislike of Memphis but that's because they havent accomplishmed much other then being very underwhelming when it comes to the postseason considering how much hype they receive year in and year out. I have a dislike towards one player and that is Joey Dorsey. I do not deny that but that's because he's a douchebag, at least in the media.

And you are the last person to talk about someone getting too involved with Memphis

[Karlifornia]

I don't think Memphis has done enough to accrue any hatred.....

[MrBug708]

No, I do not think UCLA is the best team in the country. I think the media has over hyped them. I think that they are solid team, very capable of winning the national championship. But at this time, due to the results of their games, I do not believe they are the best team in the country.

How have they overhyped them? Even missing one of their key players, people thought they had what it takes to win it all. Now they lost another key player and they lose a game on the road, and now you think that are being overhyped?

[GoldenEagle]

Oh I guess everyone answers that question differently then. When I answer the "who I think is best" its always in terms of who I think is set up the best to be the team I expect to be the favorite in the tournament. Memphis, until they prove otherwise, will never be my favorite. No team playing in a conference like CUSA will be IMO. It takes a 1990 UNLV level of talent to overcome the lack of intensity that the team needs to get through conference schedule. Memphis has good players, and a good coach, but if they make the final four, I'll be surprised, and if they win it all I'll be freaking stunned.

Its not the BCS, everyone gets their chance, and if they can win 6 in a row in March, grats to them. But I'll believe it when I see it. And I think history is *strongly* on my side on this.

I think Memphis is getting a bit lackadaisical. It is no fun blowing teams out of the water. But we can not help the conference we are in. We just have to go with it and see what happens.

I think the UT game will tell people about Memphis. If Memphis comes out and really pounds UT, then there is no reason to think they can not do that in the tournament. We have been in the CUSA schedule for awhile now, so the we can beat anyone by 20 attitude should be there. The question is can they back it up when they play UT and can they back it up in the tournament.

[GoldenEagle]

To the next level? What are you talking about? Yes I have a dislike of Memphis but that's because they havent accomplishmed much other then being very underwhelming when it comes to the postseason considering how much hype they receive year in and year out. I have a dislike towards one player and that is Joey Dorsey. I do not deny that but that's because he's a douchebag, at least in the media.

And you are the last person to talk about someone getting too involved with Memphis

I don't think they get much hype in the post season. After all, two seasons ago they were suppose to be the first #1 seed ever to lost to Oral Roberts.

[GoldenEagle]

How have they overhyped them? Even missing one of their key players, people thought they had what it takes to win it all. Now they lost another key player and they lose a game on the road, and now you think that are being overhyped?

No, I do not think they are the best team in the country right now.

[Chief Rum]

No, I do not think they are the best team in the country right now.

While I hear you and agree with you here, your first post today about this above indicates you felt that before today's loss. So you can't really use today's loss as a reason for your stance.

Just saying, you know...

I think even Bug would acknowledge UCLA shouldn't be considered the best team after today.

[Warhammer]

Definately agree re: Memphis. I like their team and enjoy watching them play, but I don't see them being serious contenders. They could easily prove me wrong if they get hot in March, but right now I don't see it.

I have two points on Memphis:

1) They've been to two straight Elite Eights with the same core of players.

2) Right now, they are playing a ton of their backups. Their starters are only playing roughly 20-25 minutes per game right now. That means they're not blowing out teams like you would expect, and their stars will be rested come March.

[MrBug708]

No, I do not think they are the best team in the country right now.

No, but they also aren't healthy right now so I would be inclined to agree

[Chief Rum]

I have two points on Memphis:

1) They've been to two straight Elite Eights with the same core of players.

2) Right now, they are playing a ton of their backups. Their starters are only playing roughly 20-25 minutes per game right now. That means they're not blowing out teams like you would expect, and their stars will be rested come March.

Point 1 is excellent (and a good reason why no one should sleep on UCLA either).

Point 2 actually could end up being a negative for you. You will need to be tested more before the tournament to get you ready for real competition, and I am not sure your schedule this season is going to do it. Even the couple semi-big games you have played (Gonzaga, USC, soon to be Tennessee) are at home.

Coach Cal needs to schedule some tough road games (and the C-USA needs to have his back and push the other conferences to step up their games).

[GoldenEagle]

While I hear you and agree with you here, your first post today about this above indicates you felt that before today's loss. So you can't really use today's loss as a reason for your stance.

Just saying, you know...

I think even Bug would acknowledge UCLA shouldn't be considered the best team after today.

Well, I also don't think they were the best team in country coming in to today either. I believe (and still believe) they can beat anytime in the country. My point was that some talking heads were saying that is the best team in the country....


But it is all subjective and I am even confusing myself right now. Let March get here and it will all be settled.

[GoldenEagle]

Point 1 is excellent (and a good reason why no one should sleep on UCLA either).

Point 2 actually could end up being a negative for you. You will need to be tested more before the tournament to get you ready for real competition, and I am not sure your schedule this season is going to do it. Even the couple semi-big games you have played (Gonzaga, USC, soon to be Tennessee) are at home.

Coach Cal needs to schedule some tough road games (and the C-USA needs to have his back and push the other conferences to step up their games).

Minor correct - the USC game was at the garden. Memphis has also played @Houston, which is a top 50 rpi team.

[hoopsguy]

Throw me in the (apparently small) group that thinks Memphis is the best team in the country right now. In fact, looking back at my Face the Board I said they were my pick to win the title at the start of the year. I haven't seen anything that makes me change this opinion. Rose and Douglas-Roberts is one of the best 1-2 punches in college hoops and this is a deep team who will pose challenges for anyone who gets in their way.

I hope they smoke Tennessee later this month, but that is about all the rooting interest I have in Memphis.

[Warhammer]

The only issue about Memphis scheduling road games is that many of the big road games that we had last year are all at home this year. Not much that Cal could have done about that. But, they did play UConn and USC at the Garden, at least those were neutral court games.

[Chief Rum]

Minor correct - the USC game was at the garden. Memphis has also played @Houston, which is a top 50 rpi team.

Yes, you're right. Still not on the road (in USC's place, I mean), though.

UM should get credit for @Houston as well, of course, but unfortunately for the Tigers, all of the other "best team candidates" have several of these each from their own conferences.

[Radii]

SOMEHOW UNC (getting incredibly hot from 3) got back into it, and Clemson is choking big time. I'm completely stunned. I almost think that UNC should just foul and make clemson go to the FT line instead of letting them try to win it at the end.

[Karlifornia]

Come on Clemson....don't do this again.

[Chief Rum]

The only issue about Memphis scheduling road games is that many of the big road games that we had last year are all at home this year. Not much that Cal could have done about that. But, they did play UConn and USC at the Garden, at least those were neutral court games.

Probably then there needed to be a better mix. Or Cal needs to stop agreeing to home and homes. Or do it, but be sure to still get tough road games in years where the road schedule is weak.

Really, though, I don't blame Memphis for this, but C-USA. It was always going to be tough to stop Cincy, L'ville and Marquette from jumping to the Big East with their money and influence, but just not enough, IMO, has been done to encourage the other programs to elevate their games. Maybe it's happening, and it just takes time, but it seems like little progress is being made there.

[JetsIn06]

WOW. I just turned the game on again after seeing Clemson was winning. How the hell did they come back?

[Karlifornia]

lol @Clemson...This is just so depressing.

[GoldenEagle]

The only issue about Memphis scheduling road games is that many of the big road games that we had last year are all at home this year. Not much that Cal could have done about that. But, they did play UConn and USC at the Garden, at least those were neutral court games.

Right.

Next year we will play @Gonzaga, @Arizona, @Tennessee, and @Georgetown.

I am not sure if playing in tough road environments has any affect on any team in March. Rarely are you playing on the road in a NCAA tournament. I guess the argument could be that it toughens your team up, but again I am not sure what bearing that has come tournament time.

[Radii]

WOW. I just turned the game on again after seeing Clemson was winning. How the hell did they come back?

UNC got ridiculously hot from 3, Hansbrough took over like 3 possessions in a row, Clemson generally stopped playing defense, UNC hit some clutch shots and played some good D but I think Clemson has completely psyched themselves out and this is shaping up to be a massive choke moreso than it is a great comeback(if UNC can win, depends on whether clemson is composed or not to start OT).

[JetsIn06]

HOLY SHIT

edit: that was unbelievable that they got all those rebounds and then made the 3.

[Chief Rum]

Right.

Next year we will play @Gonzaga, @Arizona, @Tennessee, and @Georgetown.

I am not sure if playing in tough road environments has any affect on any team in March. Rarely are you playing on the road in a NCAA tournament. I guess the argument could be that it toughens your team up, but again I am not sure what bearing that has come tournament time.

Now, that's much tougher (maybe too tough actually, if you lose some players).

I think what the road games against good teams enourages is the close games. It's not winning on the road that is important (although there is toughness gained from that, too), it's winning close games, being placed in a position of needing to make every play to win the game, that sorta toughness is absolutely critical come tournament time.

[JetsIn06]

Man, what a shot by Oglesby

[Radii]

Man, what a shot by Oglesby

no kidding, that was a great defensive stand, then bam.

[JetsIn06]

no kidding, that was a great defensive stand, then bam.

it was such a weird shot too. complete silence, seemed like the announcers were shocked that he took the shot and made it.

[Karlifornia]

What a game this has been...2 ticks left...can clemson make it through another OT?

[Karlifornia]

Hansbrough=best big man in the country.

[Radii]

every time clemson goes to the line I just laugh. They did make one this time!

[Karlifornia]

Clemson makes their first FT of the game in double OT...I wonder if that has ever happened in any basketball game.

[Radii]

Big couple series there, UNC had a chance for a dagger and a 5 point lead w/ Deon Thompson but instead Clemson gets the stop and cuts the lead to 1.

[Karlifornia]

I could go for less of Tyler Hansbrough's dad, though. Almost as bad as Brenda Warner.

[Radii]

Hansbrough=best big man in the country.

.

What a steal.

[Radii]

Incredible win, really Clemson choked this one away in regulation, UNC was just good enough to take advantage of it. Every time UNC steps on the floor without Lawson, I expect a loss(including at UVA coming up Tuesday even after this), but this is good, very very good.

Another good effort, Tigers, you guys have a good coach down there, if he doesn't hop to another school Clemson has a real shot to compete in the ACC for awhile.

[Wolfpack]

Incredible win, really Clemson choked this one away in regulation, UNC was just good enough to take advantage of it. Every time UNC steps on the floor without Lawson, I expect a loss(including at UVA coming up Tuesday even after this), but this is good, very very good.

Another good effort, Tigers, you guys have a good coach down there, if he doesn't hop to another school Clemson has a real shot to compete in the ACC for awhile.

I was utterly unsurprised that Clemson lost. Granted I didn't watch much of the game because I had company over but, frankly, this is now bordering on Boston-Red-Sox-curse levels for Clemson in terms of their streak in Chapel Hill.

every time clemson goes to the line I just laugh. They did make one this time!

I should also note I was not surprised at the disparity in free throws. I'm guessing you didn't get to laugh very much tonight.... ;) (As physically as Clemson and Carolina usually play and Clemson can't even get 10 free throws while Carolina gets over 30?)

[Radii]

I should also note I was not surprised at the disparity in free throws. I'm guessing you didn't get to laugh very much tonight.... ;) (As physically as Clemson and Carolina usually play and Clemson can't even get 10 free throws while Carolina gets over 30?)


well all the UNC alums sent in their checks to get the refs to call an extra 20 fouls on Clemson, so that's pretty much expected.

[Radii]

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=3240984


CHAPEL HILL, N.C. -- North Carolina is running out of point guards.

The fifth-ranked Tar Heels have played two straight games without point guard Ty Lawson, who sprained his left ankle in an overtime win at Florida State. Backup Bobby Frasor is already out for the season after suffering a knee injury in December.

Now, emergency option Marcus Ginyard is nursing a sprained ankle from Sunday's double-overtime win against Clemson.

Coach Roy Williams said Lawson is likely out Tuesday when North Carolina (22-2, 7-2 ACC) travels to Virginia.

"I don't know that there is a timetable," Williams said Monday. "I think we've just got to wait until he starts feeling better with it. The kid's not been hurt very often and kids that haven't been hurt think that sometimes things have to be perfect before they come back. That could be part of Tywon's deal. But at the same time it still hurts. We're just going to have to wait until it stops hurting."

Senior Quentin Thomas has assumed the lead role with Lawson out, while Ginyard has been the backup. But the junior swingman has an injured toe on his left foot to go with his ailing right ankle.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Throw me in the (apparently small) group that thinks Memphis is the best team in the country right now. In fact, looking back at my Face the Board I said they were my pick to win the title at the start of the year. I haven't seen anything that makes me change this opinion. Rose and Douglas-Roberts is one of the best 1-2 punches in college hoops and this is a deep team who will pose challenges for anyone who gets in their way.

I hope they smoke Tennessee later this month, but that is about all the rooting interest I have in Memphis.
Memphis's craptacular free throw shooting could get them in trouble in a close game.

[cartman]

Although I'm a Texas homer, I don't see them keeping within 15 of Kansas tonight. They have had horrible first halves the past four or five games, and they can't afford to get down to Kansas early.

[Groundhog]

I'm pissed at Texas because I played them last night in CH 2K8 and was up by 10 with 10 minutes to go, and ended up losing by 18. Damn that Clint Chapman fellow who, by his senior year in my universe, has grown to 7'0 and 280lbs and scored about 12 straight points on me.

[Wolfpack]

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=3240984

Oh, bitch, bitch, bitch! ;)

[cmp]

Villanova just got screwed.

[JonInMiddleGA]

And on the women's side, Tennessee survives Rutgers at home as 60% FT shooter Nikki Anosike calmly hits a pair with 0.2 seconds on the clock to give the Lady Vols a one point win.

I swear, I think I had one of those regular season perfect moments when a freshman guard buried a three in the final minute to give Tennessee a temporary lead, their first in a long time during a miserable second half - her dad in the stands, playing her first game with a broken nose, not shooting well - and she just drilled it "cooler than a two dollar steak" (not completely sure what the hell that means but that was the pbp line). Most purely enjoyable sports moment I've had in quite a while.

Naturally, there's a clock controversy at the end as the clock appeared to hitch as the foul was taking place (although the announcers never mentioned the possibility, my guess would be that the clock stopped on the whistle & that the officials arm came up slowly, making it look as though the foul came after time expired) but the bottom line is Rutgers goes back north with another L in Knoxville.

[Atocep]

Villanova just got screwed.

Was a cheap call, but it was hard to see if the bump forced Wallace to step OOB. If that was the case then the ref had no choice but to call a foul and he did wait until the foot came down near the OOB line before blowing the whistle so I'll assume it was either call a foul or call OOB. Also, as cheap of a call as that was I would prefer the game to be called the same way for 40 minutes rather than having a ref swallow his whistle down the stretch.

[Logan]

And on the women's side, Tennessee survives Rutgers at home as 60% FT shooter Nikki Anosike calmly hits a pair with 0.2 seconds on the clock to give the Lady Vols a one point win.

I swear, I think I had one of those regular season perfect moments when a freshman guard buried a three in the final minute to give Tennessee a temporary lead, their first in a long time during a miserable second half - her dad in the stands, playing her first game with a broken nose, not shooting well - and she just drilled it "cooler than a two dollar steak" (not completely sure what the hell that means but that was the pbp line). Most purely enjoyable sports moment I've had in quite a while.

Naturally, there's a clock controversy at the end as the clock appeared to hitch as the foul was taking place (although the announcers never mentioned the possibility, my guess would be that the clock stopped on the whistle & that the officials arm came up slowly, making it look as though the foul came after time expired) but the bottom line is Rutgers goes back north with another L in Knoxville.

Jon, it wasn't a hitch. The thing completely fuckin stopped. And it stopped long enough for me to say "the clock just fuckin stopped" in between that point and when the foul was called. That was complete bullshit, not like I really care about my school's women's team.

Oh, and gotta love ESPN...god forbid they ONCE show a replay in regular speed and with the audio so you could hear how long it took for that whistle to come.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Oh, and gotta love ESPN...god forbid they ONCE show a replay in regular speed and with the audio so you could hear how long it took for that whistle to come.

I picked the word "hitch" because I liked it better than their description of "hiccup", since it didn't stop & restart. Absolutely no question it stopped, the question was/is why. Then on the final inbounds play the clock never started for the final 0.2, which does make me at least wonder whether there was some sort of mechanical issue.

Anyhoo, ESPN's ability to handle any in-game controversies on the spot is really a weakness that stands out to me in all of their live coverage. Not once did they mention the possibility (that I figure is the probability) that the stoppage was due to a whistle that we didn't hear in the live audio. Whether that's what happened or not, and surely we can both agree that it's at least a possibility, it never seemed to dawn on them that replaying things with the audio enhanced would at least be worth a try. Another obvious thing we never saw (AFAIK) was an angle from under the basket looking back inbounds toward the foul, although I suspect they were working with fewer cameras than usual tonight so there might be a fairly legitimate reason they didn't at least try that to see if it revealed anything.

They do the same sort of thing with college football, beating something into the ground for ten minutes without ever mentioning some obvious possibility (which seems to frequently turn out to be the case when we hear more several days later).

[Logan]

I picked the word "hitch" because I liked it better than their description of "hiccup", since it didn't stop & restart. Absolutely no question it stopped, the question was/is why. Then on the final inbounds play the clock never started for the final 0.2, which does make me at least wonder whether there was some sort of mechanical issue.

As someone said on our Rivals' board...it probably didn't start on the final play because the operator was still laughing his ass off at the scam he just got away with :).

Anyhoo, ESPN's ability to handle any in-game controversies on the spot is really a weakness that stands out to me in all of their live coverage. Not once did they mention the possibility (that I figure is the probability) that the stoppage was due to a whistle that we didn't hear in the live audio. Whether that's what happened or not, and surely we can both agree that it's at least a possibility, it never seemed to dawn on them that replaying things with the audio enhanced would at least be worth a try. Another obvious thing we never saw (AFAIK) was an angle from under the basket looking back inbounds toward the foul, although I suspect they were working with fewer cameras than usual tonight so there might be a fairly legitimate reason they didn't at least try that to see if it revealed anything.

They do the same sort of thing with college football, beating something into the ground for ten minutes without ever mentioning some obvious possibility (which seems to frequently turn out to be the case when we hear more several days later).

Fair point about the whistle, and yeah I'll say it's certainly possible it could have come...but I did hear the whistle late, and I strongly doubt he blew his whistle twice. We'll see, I'm sure...ESPN seemed to indicate that they were gonna break it down at this halftime show.

edit: Just saw it in full speed...that whistle was really, really late.

[cartman]

WOOT!!!! Texas wins by 3!!!

[sterlingice]

Although I'm a Texas homer, I don't see them keeping within 15 of Kansas tonight. They have had horrible first halves the past four or five games, and they can't afford to get down to Kansas early.

Guess that wasn't your best prediction but you're pretty happy. Nice win tonight.

SI

[Groundhog]

Managed to "refill my water" here at work enough times to catch most of the Texas-Kansas game. Very nice win for Texas, especially with Augustin shooting something like 1-12 (though his one make was a nice one).

And after watching the Georgetown-Villanova game before hand, I've now got another player to spend 75% of the game wondering why his team doesn't feed him the ball every possession; Roy Hibbert. That second half (hell, the whole game, but especially the second half) was ugly and with the way both teams were shooting from behind the arc, well, might be an idea to try and work it inside lads, especially Georgetown with that 7'2 Hibbert fellow.

[sterlingice]

KU has kindof lost their swagger since losing to K-State. They're now just going through the motions until the tourney. If they sleepwalk through too many more games, they're going to lose at A&M and lose in the Big XII tourney, probably costing them a #1 seed.

SI

[cmp]

Was a cheap call, but it was hard to see if the bump forced Wallace to step OOB. If that was the case then the ref had no choice but to call a foul and he did wait until the foot came down near the OOB line before blowing the whistle so I'll assume it was either call a foul or call OOB. Also, as cheap of a call as that was I would prefer the game to be called the same way for 40 minutes rather than having a ref swallow his whistle down the stretch.

You just don't make that call in that situation. All that was was the ref taking the game into his own hands and not letting it be decided on the court. You have to swallow your whistle in that situation.

[JonInMiddleGA]

As someone said on our Rivals' board...it probably didn't start on the final play because the operator was still laughing his ass off at the scam he just got away with :).

Turns out there is no clock operator.

It's all electronic & controlled by the referees, used throughout the SEC and most of the major conferences. Apparently the whistle has a chip & microphone which are read by a device on their belt pack, which in turn sends a wireless signal to the clock. The only way the clock could stop was either a whistle or a malfunction, no possibility of human error or homecooking at the scorers table (although human error by the refs, such as an inadvertent whistle, is always possible). The only clock controlled at the scorers table is the shot clock.

FWIW, I had no idea such a thing even existed much less had become commonplace.

[Logan]

Turns out there is no clock operator.

It's all electronic & controlled by the referees, used throughout the SEC and most of the major conferences. Apparently the whistle has a chip & microphone which are read by a device on their belt pack, which in turn sends a wireless signal to the clock. The only way the clock could stop was either a whistle or a malfunction, no possibility of human error or homecooking at the scorers table (although human error by the refs, such as an inadvertent whistle, is always possible). The only clock controlled at the scorers table is the shot clock.

FWIW, I had no idea such a thing even existed much less had become commonplace.

Just saw that too...interesting. Although it couldn't have been an inadvertent whistle because the clock restarted again shortly after the foul call, so that wouldn't make any sense. And if it was an inadvertent whistle, the game should have been stopped at 0.2 as a result, with Tennessee inbounding the ball.

ESPN timed it out and said 1.3 seconds elapsed before the clock restarted.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Just saw that too...interesting. Although it couldn't have been an inadvertent whistle because the clock restarted again shortly after the foul call, so that wouldn't make any sense. And if it was an inadvertent whistle, the game should have been stopped at 0.2 as a result, with Tennessee inbounding the ball.

ESPN timed it out and said 1.3 seconds elapsed before the clock restarted.

Not to drag this out any further but at the same time to be fair, the manufacturer of the device says that human error (including an operator) is still a possibility.
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncw/news/story?id=3243053

Just guessing from the various accounts, I suspect what happened is that an official other than the one we see in the replay blew a whistle -- either intentionally as a late call on one of Parker's attempts or before the shot when Anosike first got the ball or even inadvertently -- but then someone, either referee or timekeeper mistakenly or accidentally restarted the clock.

I'm actually more confident of the last bit after seeing the phrasing of the SEC statement, which sort of read to me like the door was left cracked for some sort of human error of that type. It wouldn't be "improper" in at least one sense of the words but doesn't entirely eliminate some human error in restarting the clock which caused it to run from 0.2 to 0.0.

[JetsIn06]

Wow, another GREAT game tonight. UNC up by 2 with 51 left. But I'm sure anyone in this thread probly knows that :)

[JetsIn06]

fuck. that hansbrough shot was unreal

[Groundhog]

It's halftime and Vanderbilt are up 40 to 11 over Kentucky. Youch.

[Karlifornia]

Lol...Kentucky now down 52-14....Ashley Judd showed up at halftime...now that's a true fan.

[DeToxRox]

Lol...Kentucky now down 52-14....Ashley Judd showed up at halftime...now that's a true fan.


Ping Jeeber

[Groundhog]

While it's great to finally get a chance to see Ogilvy play, jeezus, what a slaughter this is.

[INDalltheway]

How about them boilers?

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

How about them boilers?

Mizzou fans have taken note. Purdue looks like our best win on the season.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Another women's note, as I've just watched one of the strangest games I can recall.

Tennessee opened the game in Knoxville by taking a 21-2 lead over LSU.
After swapping a couple of short runs each, LSU followed with a 21-2 run of their own late in the half & took a one point lead before UT answered to lead by three at the half.

Final score:
LSU 78 - Tennessee 62

Second largest home loss in UT history, 3rd largest comeback in NCAA women's history.

[rjolley]

Did Parker play for UT?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Did Parker play for UT?

Yep, had like 11 points in the first 4 minutes, something like 18 at the half and finished with 26. Her & Anosike were pretty much the only UT players who did anything all night.

[rjolley]

Ah, glad to hear that knee injury wasn't a major one.

[SFL Cat]

Tuff to be a Kentucky fan nowadays.... :(

[Karlifornia]

Stanford just gagged against ASU, losing in OT....Couldn't hang on after a 25-2 run in the second half...Just bad.

[Chief Rum]

Stanford just gagged against ASU, losing in OT....Couldn't hang on after a 25-2 run in the second half...Just bad.

It's the same thing we discussed Sunday after the Bruins' loss to the Huskies. This is just a damn good conference. It's very difficult to get far without picking up a loss or two somewhere.

[SnDvls]

Stanford just gagged against ASU, losing in OT....Couldn't hang on after a 25-2 run in the second half...Just bad.

it was a great comeback win and much needed for ASU...now if we don't go beat Cal on Saturday it dosen't mean much either.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I still don't think there's much in life more repulsive than UGA, but their game with Tennessee this afternoon has been a damned show. Vols by 3 with just over 2 minutes left. Sundiata Gaines has been the Georgia show, and him & Lofton just had a fun several minutes going back & forth with both just bombing away from three.

edit to add: Tennessee hangs on 74-71 in Athens but I gotta tell you, I almost feel sorry for Gaines. Other than his choice of schools, he's really a good enough player to deserve a better fate than to be on an otherwise pretty poor team.

[Radii]

Anyone watching Baylor/Texas? This is wild as hell.

[Radii]

Texas holds on to win 81-77.

Texas led by 12 with 2 minutes to go, and by ~10 with 1:20 left. Baylor hit a 3 to cut it to 7, stole the inbounds pass, hit another 3 to cut it to 4 with 1 minute left. After cutting it down to 1 with ~35 seconds left, Baylor's full court press trapped Texas in the corner and forced another turnover, Baylor ball with 30 seconds to go down by 1. The man inbounding the ball can't find anyone and pulls a Chris Webber, calls a TO when Baylor was out of them already. Texas only hits one of the free throws on the technical though, but Baylor couldn't get anymore shots to fall, and couldn't ever grab the lead. Texas missed the front end of 3 1 and 1s in a row and baylor's press in the last two minutes was stifling, they were everywhere, but couldn't quite pull off the comeback/upset.

[GoldenEagle]

Memphis is in trouble at UAB. We are down by 4 and am not feeling good about this. Our D is not as tenacious as it has been and we are playing at tough place at UAB, where we lost two years ago.

[GoldenEagle]

Memphis was down 77-70 with 1:23 to go. Memphis comes back to with 78-77.

After the game, the UAB fans threw trash on the Memphis players and UAB students jumped into the tunnel to pick fights with the Memphis players. Hopefully they are heavily fined.

[GoldenEagle]

Latest is that U of M player Shawn Taggert got his nose broke by a flying whiskey bottle.

[JeeberD]

UAB is nothing but class. We've had run-ins with them as well...though with the players, not the fans.

[Chief Rum]

We should get Oregon, UAB and Illinois fans in a rumble war old school-WWF style. Need a 4th fan base, though, to balance it all out, or have a tourney!

[Karlifornia]

We should get Oregon, UAB and Illinois fans in a rumble war old school-WWF style. Need a 4th fan base, though, to balance it all out, or have a tourney!

Hey, Chief....whose quote is that in your sig?

EDIT: Please don't tell me it's Mel Gibson's character from Braveheart...I don't want anyone to know that I've never seen that movie.

EDIT, part deux: "edti" is not a word, and I will not allow it to scar the the unblemished beauty that is one of my posts.

[Chief Rum]

Hey, Chief....whose quote is that in your sig?

EDIT: Please don't tell me it's Mel Gibson's character from Braveheart...I don't want anyone to know that I've never seen that movie.

EDIT, part deux: "edti" is not a word, and I will not allow it to scar the the unblemished beauty that is one of my posts.

Ha! Don't worry, considering the source of that quote, I doubt greatly that the anti-Semitic Mr. Gibson would have ever said it (at least not as the original meant it anyway).

That was written by reknowned 19th century abolitionist William Lloyd Garrison, in his abolitionist newspaper Liberator, in 1831, and, of course, he was speaking out against slavery, which he felt was an issue that one should not accept with moderation.

While I completely agree with him on that specific point (of course), I put the quote in my sig because I feel its passion reflects similarly with my own on a good number of topics.

[MrBug708]

Karl, are you dancing in the streets that the refs kept you from falling two games back behind UCLA in the race? That was an atrociously reffed game

[Karlifornia]

Karl, are you dancing in the streets that the refs kept you from falling two games back behind UCLA in the race? That was an atrociously reffed game

I think anyone worth their salt on the UofA squad would say that they shouldn't have let it come down to that. Stanford outplayed Arizona, albeit slightly, throughout the game. I'll gladly take the win, as getting swept in the desert probably would have sent Stanford back among the 4 seeds. Now they just need to take care of biz at home against the Washingtons and Cal, hopefulle get at least a split down in Smogville, and they should have a 3 seed locked up.

[miami_fan]

Wake Forest 67 Duke 62 6 mins left in the game.

[miami_fan]

Down go the Dookies! 86-73

[Young Drachma]

James Johnson..too bad he had to go to the ACC to shine. He would've blown the roof off of the A-A had he stayed at home. Not that I'd wish that on anybody...just saying. He'll be great in the NBA.

[MrBug708]

Well, UCLA gets their revenge on USC and will probably move up two spots to #4

[Groundhog]

Well, UCLA gets their revenge on UCLA and will probably move up two spots to #4

The UCLA vs UCLA rivalry is one of the best in the nation IMO. :D

[MrBug708]

The ownage says so :)

[MrBug708]

Interesting rankings this week. UCLA didn't move up from #6 even though two teams ahead of them lost. They probably are ranked where they should be though since they have more losses then the teams above them. I do also think they are in line for a #1 seed as it remains at the moment. Either that or ship Kansas out to the West with UCLA again. Regional is in Arizona :)

[JonInMiddleGA]

And on Saturday night, it'll be #1 Memphis vs #2 Tennessee.

First 1/2 matchup in men's college basketball since the same week last year (when Ohio State beat Wisconsin 49-48).

[INDalltheway]

Really excited for the Purdue/IU game on Tuesday. It's been a while since this game has meant much of anything for both teams. Purdue is moving up the polls nicely too.

[cartman]

Texas is doing to A&M in Austin what the Aggies did to the Horns in College Station a couple of weeks ago. Horns are up 39-18 at the half. D.J. Augustine has broken out of his shooting slump, and has 17 points so far.

[miami_fan]

Can anybody figure Georgetown out? They seems to have changed their offense from the Princeton style to a more of a dump in the post and then kick out for threes. There really is no movement in the offense anymore.

[MrBug708]

Rumored McD AA list

Greg Monroe (Georgetown)
Samardo Samuels (Louisville)
Jrue Holiday (UCLA)
Tyreke Evans (undecided)
Demar Derozan (USC)
BJ Mullens (tOSU)
Brandan Jennings (Arizona)
Al-Fariq Aminu (Wake Forest)
Ed Davis (North Carolina)
Scotty Hopson (undecided)
William Buford (tOSU)
Willie Warren (Oklahoma)
Elliot Williams (Duke)
Iman Shumpert (Georgia Tech)
Tyler Zeller (North Carolina)
Michael Dunigan (Oregon)
Kemba Walker (UConn)
Malcolm Lee (UCLA)
Chris Singleton (Florida St.)
JayMychal Green (Alabama)
Sylven Landesburg (Virginia)
Larry Drew (North Carolina)
Luke Babbitt (Nevada)
Mike Rosario (Rutgers)

[MJ4H]

Hearing rumors that the new Arkansas State coach will be Nolan Richardson (LOL).

[JonInMiddleGA]

Tennessee & Memphis both win easy.

Duke loses to Miami on the road by 4, after being down by 18 in the 2nd half before pulling within three in the final minute.

[Wolfpack]

Duke loses to Miami on the road by 4, after being down by 18 in the 2nd half before pulling within three in the final minute.

Add to that VT beating Maryland and FSU beating Clemson a couple of nights ago and officially the ACC is an absolute trainwreck this year. The ACC will get three teams on sheer history alone simply because it would be unthinkable for just two to make it, but it's almost impossible to gauge on any given night a) who will be the third team and b) whether the league really deserves any more bids. Conceivably, a case could be made for up to four more teams after Duke and UNC, with Miami now joining Clemson, Wake, and Maryland as viable choices, but I'd be shocked at this point if any more than two of them get a bid. Assuming the leading candidates in Clemson and Maryland were given two bids, Wake or Miami might have to at least reach the finals if not win outright to get a fifth bid for the conference.

It's kind of surprising in some ways because time was you just needed to get to .500 in the ACC to merit a bid, but 8-8 definitely won't do it this year and 9-7 teams are riding a thin margin.

[Radii]

As long as Clemson doesn't completely choke they're well deserving of a bid I think(they have a solid RPI right now). Clemson/Maryland/Miami/Va Tech all have lots of games left against each other and if they manage to split them and no one stands out in the end it could get real ugly. You're right about a 5th bid, I think it would take something fairly extrodinary(like Wake beating Clemson and UNC on the way to the ACC finals or something like that) for the conference to get more than 4 in, and there is definitely a situation for all those teams to screw up enough to only get 3 in.

[hoosiergoody]

hxxp://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/basketball/ncaa/02/21/sampson.ap/index.html?eref=si_topstories

(safe for work- just being careful)

It appears that Sampson is done @ IU... I still cannot figure out why they hired him to begin with

[GoldenEagle]

I have a deal right now for 2 Memphis-UT tickets. Just got to hope it does not fall through.

[cartman]

Texas has another complete game in their shellacking of Oklahoma, 62-45. They held OU to only 26% shooting from the field.

[duckman]

Texas has another complete game in their shellacking of Oklahoma, 62-45. They held OU to only 26% shooting from the field.

That's some impressive defense Texas has been playing in the past few games.

[Lathum]

Butler- Drake has been a great game so far

[Eaglesfan27]

And on Saturday night, it'll be #1 Memphis vs #2 Tennessee.

First 1/2 matchup in men's college basketball since the same week last year (when Ohio State beat Wisconsin 49-48).


I'm really looking forward to tonight's game even though I don't particularly like either team.

[Lathum]

I'm really looking forward to tonight's game even though I don't particularly like either team.

+1

[MrBug708]

With Kansas losing, UCLA will move up a spot

[JonInMiddleGA]

Turned on a basketball game & a track meet broke out.

[Lathum]

Turned on a basketball game & a track meet broke out.

It's been a while since I bet on sports, but I was really tempted to bet the over this game

[Eaglesfan27]

It's been a while since I bet on sports, but I was really tempted to bet the over this game

I was tempted by the over as well. Fun game to watch so far.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Fun game to watch so far.

Not nearly as much fun at my house right now. Too nerve wracking.

Oddly, my wife has turned into the big basketball fan in the house, watching probably at least 4 or 5 games a week (between men's & women's) & complaining that there isn't one that really engages her on every night. She was in school during the "Ernie & Bernie" era at UT so she remembers the last time that the Vols were fun to watch, having one of this year's starters be from her hometown just sealed the deal.

[SirFozzie]

The Valpo-Miami (OH) game was the absolute best game I've seen all year. Track meat, big shots late in the game, etcetera

[JonInMiddleGA]

{scratches head}

Memphis wants this series to move to a neutral site? WTF?

This is as loud & frenzied a crowd as I've seen all year, why on earth would you give that up every other year just to avoid a trip to Knoxville? I mean, Pearl is starting to energize the program but even at it's best (which is usually for the Lady Vols or the men vs Kentucky) it's not any better (or as good) than what Memphis is getting from their fans.

Really strange thinking on their part IMO.

[cartman]

Did Bruce Pearl just molest Erin Andrews?

:D

[JonInMiddleGA]

Gotta be happy to be down just one after Memphis shot the lights out for most of the half. And Lofton still doesn't have a field goal (and may not get one of Memphis keeps playing defense the same way for the next 20 minutes).

[JonInMiddleGA]

Did Bruce Pearl just molest Erin Andrews?
:D

Probably ;)

[Eaglesfan27]

She did look terrified.

[cartman]

Wow, with both Kansas and K-State losing today, that puts Texas in the driver's seat for the #1 seed in the Big 12 tourney. Monday night's game between the Horns and Wildcats should be a good one.

[Radii]

I know its a close game and credit Memphis for slowing down/shutting down Lofton, but Tennessee looks vastly superior right now.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Funny how Erin Andrews doesn't have any reports from the Tennessee bench in the second half. She doesn't want to go near Bruce Pearl again. :D

[JonInMiddleGA]

Lofton is trying to do too much & it's hurting UT big.

[Radii]

Lofton is trying to do too much & it's hurting UT big.

definitely. for most of the second half i thought tennessee was playing with more poise, playing with more control in transition and more poise in half court sets... not anymore.

[Radii]

HUGE offensive rebounding for Memphis.

[Eaglesfan27]

Great ending...

[st.cronin]

That shot was stoopid.

[MrBug708]

How do you not call a timeout? Two too many passes on the previous possession by Memphis as well. *sigh*

[Radii]

What the hell was Calipari thinking not using his last time out there to set up a play?

[Young Drachma]

What the hell was Calipari thinking not using his last time out there to set up a play?

I was wondering that, too.

[Radii]

If you get the ball to Rose to let him create something maybe I can see not burning the timeout, but Memphis had no idea what they were doing that last possession.

[MrBug708]

Like I said earlier about Joey Dorsey, guys an idiot

[Radii]

good foul. Coaching in the last minute is deciding this one. Pearl > Calipari.

[Young Drachma]

Memphis picked a bad time to not get the board.

[MrBug708]

Good thing you saved that time out

[Radii]

Congrats to Tennessee. Great win

[Lathum]

At least the game delivered.

I wonder if this will cost Memphis a #1 seed

[Young Drachma]

It's a good thing college football doesn't have a tournament. Otherwise, meaningless games like this would water down the regular season all of the time in football.

[MrBug708]

Memphis needed a loss

[MrBug708]

At least the game delivered.

I wonder if this will cost Memphis a #1 seed

Probably not. They'll probably put Memphis in the West regional as the #1 seed again

[JonInMiddleGA]

Whew.

Mad props to Prince for his whole half, nothing bigger than those FT's.
Darned near equally big props to Chism for coming up so big all night long.

Hell of a ball game.

[cartman]

I thought for a second there Bruce Pearl was going to pull a Joe Namath on Suzy Kolber move... :)

[JonInMiddleGA]

Don't anybody get carried away about #1 seeds, certainly not for UT.
They've still got a killer three game stretch to go and that's before the conference tournament even starts.

[Pumpy Tudors]

I wonder if this will cost Memphis a #1 seed
If this is Memphis' only loss of the season (and it probably will be), they should still be a #1 seed. It just wouldn't make sense if they drop to a #2 because of this one loss. Lose to Rice, lose your #1 seed. Lose to #2 Tennessee, I hope not.

[Warhammer]

At least the game delivered.

I wonder if this will cost Memphis a #1 seed

It shouldn't. You can still argue that Memphis has the best credentials of any team in the land, even with the loss.

How can you deny a team that beat Georgetown, UConn, USC, Gonzaga, etc., a #1 seed when they lost to the #2 team in the country?

[Warhammer]

I hate to say it too, Memphis lost this game with their terrible possession with 1:30 left in the game. They started to stall rather than play their game. Bad, bad move.

[Radii]

I wonder if this will cost Memphis a #1 seed


I seriously doubt it. Memphis probably won't lose another game, and even with a weak conference schedule they have some very good wins. Kansas lost today, Duke/UNC have 2 more losses coming between them at least, and that's if they both win all their other games and meet in the ACC finals. UCLA isn't guarenteed to finish without another loss by any stretch... I'd say Memphis is still the most likely 1 seed out there, followed by Tennessee, then 2 of Duke/UNC/Kansas/Texas/UCLA

[Young Drachma]

Is D.J. White of Indiana a legit NBA prospect?

[Johnny93g]

Is D.J. White of Indiana a legit NBA prospect?

Im really hoping the Raptors can pick him up in the draft. He's exactly what they need. I think right now, he's a mid first round pick.

[GoldenEagle]

Those asking about the timeout do not understand the offense Memphis runs.
There are not real set plays. Its free flowing.Doizer had the three foot look that we wanted, he just missed. Dorsey pulled him down fighting for the rebound.

UT just game out in the 2nd half and took it to Memphis. We could not drive and we were very impatient on the offensive end.

But in the end, its still just a loss in Feb. It would not surprise me if we lost one more time before the tournament.

[Radii]

Those asking about the timeout do not understand the offense Memphis runs.
There are not real set plays. Its free flowing.Doizer had the three foot look that we wanted, he just missed. Dorsey pulled him down fighting for the rebound.


Not there, that was on the super long possession where Memphis kept getting offensive rebounds. All the time out talk was on the offensive possession with ~15 seconds left after Tennessee took the lead. If they had gotten a remotely good shot on that possession then it might not have been all the talk about bad coaching, but neither of Memphis' best two scorers touched the ball, and they took a terrible shot over two defenders with 8 seconds still on the clock that didn't even touch the rim. At that point, knowing they had a time out, it looks to everyone watching like they had no clue what to do on that play, were completely out of sync and got the worst result possible.

[MrBug708]

No set plays?!?

[Mr. Wednesday]

I don't think ND runs a lot of set plays.

[Groundhog]

A team may not run set plays most times down the court, but in a situation when you need a basket, you should have a couple of plays up your sleeve that you can pull out to get a good look.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

New bracketology 101 is out for this week. Starting to become pretty relevant as the season nears March.

http://bracketology101.blogspot.com/2008/02/bracketology-101s-field-of-65-feb-25.html

One seeding of note: KU fans face the prospect of facing another BB team in the first round. #2 KU may face a first round matchup against current #15 Belmont Bruins. Previous BB first round catastrophes include the Bucknell Bison and the Bradley Braves.

[Radii]

If Tennessee rolls on and locks up the 1 seed in the east, as a UNC fan I would *much* rather see my team get a 2 seed in the East than a 1 seed anywhere else.

Also, if that's how the bracket were to end up, I'd really feel for a mid major like kent state. I know you want to play for as high a seed as possible, but if you're a team that has the talent to pull a couple upsets, wouldn't you much rather be an 11 seed than an 8 seed?


Other random stuff from that bracket:

The Michael Beasley show vs Duke in round 2 would be a big big highlight for me.

I still don't think 5 ACC teams get in, but it still depends on how they beat each other up in the last couple weeks.

Indiana will be really interesting to watch, they're in of course but so far(based on the actions of the players) they seem much more likely to be primed for a big fall than to rally around Dakich and win the Big Ten Tournament and make a move.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/bubblewatch?id=69

Latest ESPN Bubble Watch column. As always the smaller conference tourneys will be very interesting, there's a lot of one bid conferences with one team with an RPI in the 20s right now, making for tons of action on the bubble and some interesting at large selections if they don't hold up and win their conferences.

[Butter]

Dayton has broken my heart this year. So, so disappointing. I think we're finally officially out of the running for anything except the NIT. At least UMass appears to be actually attempting to give the previously heralded Atlantic 10 more than 1 team in the tournament at this point.

[Johnny93g]

Indiana will be really interesting to watch, they're in of course but so far(based on the actions of the players) they seem much more likely to be primed for a big fall than to rally around Dakich and win the Big Ten Tournament and make a move.


Why do you think this?

Everything i have seen, read and heard is that they are rallying around Coach Dakich. They have the us vs. the world mentalitty. I'm obviously biased, but the win against a bad Northwestern win was the biggest and most important in of the season. I think it means the players are not quitting under difficult circumstances, and will be a factor.

[nfg22]

Does anyone think that Nick Calathes is for real? Does this guy have potential to be great? I mean, he has better stats on a less experienced team than Rose. I know he probably isnt as good as Rose but I think he gets overlooked. Thoughts?

[Radii]

Why do you think this?

Everything i have seen, read and heard is that they are rallying around Coach Dakich. They have the us vs. the world mentalitty. I'm obviously biased, but the win against a bad Northwestern win was the biggest and most important in of the season. I think it means the players are not quitting under difficult circumstances, and will be a factor.

Well, I'm following the whole thing from afar as my Big Ten interest is marginal at best, but the stuff that has struck me:

1) Players skipping practice, as many pointed out in the Indiana thread this is misguided at best, and should be harshly punished at worst.

2) Players putting Sampson's initials on their shoes. Again, extremely misguided and a negative to me.

3) Team struggling to beat a team that's 0-14 in conference play when you're supposed to be a top 10 quality team, under any circumstances, is a bad sign. Its more of a potential sign of disaster than a gutsy win to me.


I'm not convinced that they're going to collapse, but I don't like what I've seen so far. A bunch of young people have been put in difficult situations and their responses so far in every situation have been the wrong ones in my eyes. They're kids and while I absolutely would have suspended everyone that skipped practice for a game, or at least not started any of them, they have their chance to show some character the rest of the way and to become a great story. Or they could struggle vs Ohio State, lose at Michigan State, fall to a 6 seed, and lose to a mid major in the first round of the tournament. As someone who doesn't care either way about Indiana, I'm curious to see what will happen.

[cartman]

Kansas State's coach looks like Chet, the big brother from the movie Weird Science.

[cartman]

Great game so far from Manhattan. It is tied 30-30 at the break. Beasley is having another great game for K-State.

[nfg22]

Beasley is looking great, despite not getting the ball all that much. He is really surprising me with the way he doesn't need the ball every possesion.

[Lathum]

The Texas- kState game is why it is a shame that players are allowed to leave after one year. While I don't fault the player it is a shame because you can tell that KState has a ton of talent but are inexperienced. If these guys all played together for another 2 years they would be a national championship contender. Instead Beasly will come out after this year and KState will fade out like OSU did this year.

[cartman]

Texas did a great job of limiting Beasley in the 2nd half. But more importantly, they completely shut down Bill Walker, K-State's second leading scorer, holding him to one point. Great road win for the 'Horns, where no Big 12 team has managed to win so far this season.

However, they need to stop watching the tape from Memphis on how to shoot free throws. :)

[INDalltheway]

Last time I went on a cruise IU went to the national championship (2002). What am I doing here in a month? Going on a cruise. If it happens again I'm never going on a spring break cruise again.

And my thoughts on the players missing practice. I am sure the guys were wanted at practice, but it wasn't like the interim coach wasn't previously on staff. I'm sure Dakich told the guys to deal with this however they needed. Dakich probably didn't want Sampson to go, so it isn't like he is looked at as an outsider. I'm guessing he is looked at as the coach that will continue what Sampson had started. This is coming from a Purdue fan too.

[BishopMVP]

Dayton has broken my heart this year. So, so disappointing. I think we're finally officially out of the running for anything except the NIT. At least UMass appears to be actually attempting to give the previously heralded Atlantic 10 more than 1 team in the tournament at this point.Don't jinx us - we're way too inconsistent and the A-10 is shockingly good top to bottom (outside St. Bonnie of course.) From an outsider's perspective, that Chris Wright injury really hurt, although some warning signs were there that Dayton was playing a little over its head (lots of close wins, making >50% of 3pt'ers in big wins) but not this much of a free-fall. I still think they have an outside chance if they can sweep the last 3 and win a couple in the A10 tourney (a win there over X could be the difference, but if they get that they might as well just win and get the auto-bid.)

I think our credentials stand on their own (wins at syracuse, bc, dayton, duquesne and uri, home wins over houston, uri and charlotte/only 1 bad loss home vs. Fordham), but there is the specter of St. Joes standing there with a sweep of us and a better conference record. I think the A10 can get 3 teams in, which means I'm rooting deperately for us, X or SJU to make it - Dayton or a Temple/URI/Richmond win and we'll be biting our teeth on selection sunday, probably getting shafted to the NIT.

[Johnny93g]

Well, I'm following the whole thing from afar as my Big Ten interest is marginal at best, but the stuff that has struck me:

1) Players skipping practice, as many pointed out in the Indiana thread this is misguided at best, and should be harshly punished at worst.

2) Players putting Sampson's initials on their shoes. Again, extremely misguided and a negative to me.

3) Team struggling to beat a team that's 0-14 in conference play when you're supposed to be a top 10 quality team, under any circumstances, is a bad sign. Its more of a potential sign of disaster than a gutsy win to me.


I'm not convinced that they're going to collapse, but I don't like what I've seen so far. A bunch of young people have been put in difficult situations and their responses so far in every situation have been the wrong ones in my eyes. They're kids and while I absolutely would have suspended everyone that skipped practice for a game, or at least not started any of them, they have their chance to show some character the rest of the way and to become a great story. Or they could struggle vs Ohio State, lose at Michigan State, fall to a 6 seed, and lose to a mid major in the first round of the tournament. As someone who doesn't care either way about Indiana, I'm curious to see what will happen.

Thats definatly a logical view for someone who isnt a fan.

1) The players who missed practise were dealing with the announcement in their own way. I think i saw a quote by DJ saying they never thought about missing a game, they just needed that day to deal with it there own way. I think Dakich handled the situation very well, and said all the right things.

2) The kids are paying respect to the man who never did anything wrong to them. Sampson cheated. Sampson deserved to be fired. But the players lost their coach, a father figure, and want him to be apart of the team. Even if it's just writing on the shoes.

3) Hard to argue that point. I still feel it was a gutsy win. It can easily be looked at as a poor effort as well. I hope they look more like a top 10 team tonight vs Ohio State

[JonInMiddleGA]

Midway through the first half, Vandy is just wearing Tennessee out.
The Vols have had as many shots blocked (3) as they've hit.

[MJ4H]

It is tough playing in the effing twilight zone that is Vanderbilt, though. I see Tennessee is crawling back into it.

[wade moore]

So I'm finally gettint the chance to catch some Vols games...

And..

What the HELL is up with this backwards ass arena?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Getting physical in Nashville. Vols back in it, long way to go.

[wade moore]

I love watching this Vols team the last couple of years. Hate that Memphis was the first game I've been able to watch since conference play started.

[JonInMiddleGA]

What the HELL is up with this backwards ass arena?

LOL, it's always been that way as far as I can remember at least. And, if I'm not mistaken, it actually used to be worse than it is now.

Damned thing ought to be imploded and the pieces stuck inside a toxic waste dump somewhere.

[wade moore]

LOL, it's always been that way as far as I can remember at least. And, if I'm not mistaken, it actually used to be worse than it is now.

Damned thing ought to be imploded and the pieces stuck inside a toxic waste dump somewhere.

Not used to having the pleasure of watching UT on TV up here in VA - so I've never seen this arena.

It is funny to realize just a couple of years ago I was a the arena in Knoxville in the early season of Pearl's first year and the place was a ghost town.

[wade moore]

Chris Lofton is my hero btw.

[JonInMiddleGA]

In case you get curious later, here's the Wiki on that gym.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memorial_Gymnasium_(Vanderbilt_University)
At the bottom are some links that have a little more of the backstory.

[wade moore]

since you're hanging around - random "small world" fact..

I'm now pretty good friends with the guy that played backup to Allen Houston at UT (Terrance Mack).

[JonInMiddleGA]

BTW, have you heard that Yao Ming is out for the remainder of the season AND the playoffs?

Just didn't want anybody to miss that breaking story.

[JonInMiddleGA]

You could really see this one coming I think.

Vandy by 8 with just under 5 minutes to go.

[JonInMiddleGA]

72-69 Vandy, in spite of missing a pair of FT's with just under 2 seconds left.

Props to the Nashville police, who managed to convince the students to stay in the stands instead of rushing the court.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Killjoys.

[Groundhog]

Aussie Ogilvy struggled with fouls for Vandy, but glad he picked up the W.

[MrBug708]

Boy Syracuse is not a very smart team. How the hell did they lose that game?

I'm not sure what to think about Duke too. You can't go very far without a legit post player

[Dr. Sak]

The end of that Pitt/Syracuse game was crazy.

[MrBug708]

34 points for Rice at at halftime of the UNC game.

Damn.

[wade moore]

My W&M Tribe after earlier games today are shockingly in a position to be #4 in the conference and earn a 1st round bye in the CAA tourney. This is a team that in 25 years has made it to the 2nd round of the CAA tourney exactly TWICE.

It's incredible.

Of course - we have to face #1 VCU, but at least on our court. Will be exciting tonight!

[MalcPow]

This Hoyas team is mind boggling. They look terrible for long stretches of most games, but seem to always hang around and pull things out (but never without a bunch of absurd crap happening). They're killing me, but thankfully they also must be absolutely infuriating to lose to. Schadenfreude ftw!

[cartman]

Texas has shot like crap against Texas Tech today. I don't seem them being able to come back in this one.

[MJ4H]

Arkansas rebounded from the worst performance I've ever seen midweek at Alabama and beats Vandy at home today. This team is crazy. Great at home, awful on the road. Can't wait to get some good guard play and decent shooting next year (Courtney Fortson and Rotnei Clarke can't get here soon enough).

[cartman]

Texas did make a hell of a rally, but it was too little too late, and they lost by 3.