Official 2007-2008 College Basketball Thread

[watravaler]

What is the deal with the third post-season tourney? I've read that they will take teams that finish below .500?

[MrBug708]

Welcome to the #2 seed in the West Texas

[cartman]

Welcome to the #2 seed in the West Texas

eh, if they win out and win the Big 12 tourney I think they will still get a #1 seed.

[st.cronin]

Apparently he's a HUGE Spongebob Squarepants fan. Experience tells me that adults who like Spongebob are either stay-at-home parents of small children, or stoners.

[Eaglesfan27]

Heh, I was thinking the same thing as I watching that piece.

[JetsIn06]

Anyone hear about the Seton Hall/St. Joe's game?

Basically, Seton Hall is down by 2 or 3 with 2 or 3 seconds left. Seton Hall inbounds the ball, and the guy who gets it throws up a 3/4 court shot and makes it, but right before he shot it, the Seton Hall coach called time out so the shot didn't count.

[Chief Rum]

eh, if they win out and win the Big 12 tourney I think they will still get a #1 seed.

Hmm, a five loss Texas team getting a #1 would have to hope that one loss Kansas gets costs them a #1 (which I don't see, unless they lose in the first round of the B12 tourney to some awful team like Texas Tech), and that only one of UNC or Duke get a #1 after one of them will have to lose in the ACC tourney.

Frankly, I don't see it. I think Kansas still gets a #1 even if Texas wins out, and I'm certain at least one of UNC and Duke will get one. Memphis is pretty much a lock for a #1. So that's three #1 spots Texas won't get.

Which means that fourth spot goes to either the other big time ACC squad, UCLA (which if it wins out will be extremely hard to not put at #1 in the West), Tennessee (which if it wins out in the SEC will also be tough to leave out of a #1, at least on par with Texas), Georgetown or Stanford, as well as Texas in the mix.

And not too many of those run contrary to each other--they don't all meet (KU and Texas in the B12 tourney, Duke-UNC play each other again and in the ACC tourney, Stanford-UCLA play each other and in the Pac 10 tourney). So they could all end the year great.

So I can't see figuring even a win out for Texas assures them of a #1.

[Radii]

I think Cartman is right. 4 loss Kansas isn't getting a 1 seed over 5 loss Texas(which would be the case if Texas wins the Big 12 tourney). Plus, conference tournament wins are often the final deciding factor in seeding when there are two top quality teams in the conference tournament(without going back and looking at seedings, I would bet that UNC and Duke have played the ACC Championship for a 1 seed/2 seed or for the right for the 1 seed in the East at least 5 times in the last 25 years). If Duke beats UNC to sweep them in the regular season, but UNC beats Duke in the ACC final, I think UNC is the more likely 1 seed despite getting swept by Duke in the regular season... same thing goes between KU/Texas this year IMO.

Also despite the 5 losses, Texas has by far the best "Good wins" resume in the nation, with wins vs THREE of the #1 seed contenders.

According to collegerpi.com, Kansas has only the 60th best SOS, and UCLA the 38th, and they are 8th and 9th in the RPI respectively. Of course, UCLA may well have two shots left against Stanford to bump that up

Memphis is still the biggest lock IMO. Tennessee I think has to get a #1 if they win the SEC Tournament, even after the Vandy loss. I think the ACC Tournament winner gets in as long as that is Duke or UNC, even if they don't play each other in the ACC Finals. And I think Texas would trump UCLA if Texas wins out because of the quality of their biggest wins.

Most likely someone chokes their conference tourney, it could be anyone. But if they don't, and there is an ACC Champ, Big 12 champ, Memphis, Tennessee, and UCLA, it'll be real interesting.

And on a personal note I still would rather have UNC the #2 seed in the East to Tennessee's #1, than a #1 anywhere else. I want them playing in Raleigh and then Charlotte to try to get to the Final Four regardless of seeds :P


Prediction: We'll argue about this for the next week and Maryland, Baylor,and USC will win the conference tournaments :P

[Chief Rum]

I think Cartman is right. 4 loss Kansas isn't getting a 1 seed over 5 loss Texas(which would be the case if Texas wins the Big 12 tourney). Plus, conference tournament wins are often the final deciding factor in seeding when there are two top quality teams in the conference tournament(without going back and looking at seedings, I would bet that UNC and Duke have played the ACC Championship for a 1 seed/2 seed or for the right for the 1 seed in the East at least 5 times in the last 25 years). If Duke beats UNC to sweep them in the regular season, but UNC beats Duke in the ACC final, I think UNC is the more likely 1 seed despite getting swept by Duke in the regular season... same thing goes between KU/Texas this year IMO.

Also despite the 5 losses, Texas has by far the best "Good wins" resume in the nation, with wins vs THREE of the #1 seed contenders.

According to collegerpi.com, Kansas has only the 60th best SOS, and UCLA the 38th, and they are 8th and 9th in the RPI respectively. Of course, UCLA may well have two shots left against Stanford to bump that up

Memphis is still the biggest lock IMO. Tennessee I think has to get a #1 if they win the SEC Tournament, even after the Vandy loss. I think the ACC Tournament winner gets in as long as that is Duke or UNC, even if they don't play each other in the ACC Finals. And I think Texas would trump UCLA if Texas wins out because of the quality of their biggest wins.

Most likely someone chokes their conference tourney, it could be anyone. But if they don't, and there is an ACC Champ, Big 12 champ, Memphis, Tennessee, and UCLA, it'll be real interesting.

And on a personal note I still would rather have UNC the #2 seed in the East to Tennessee's #1, than a #1 anywhere else. I want them playing in Raleigh and then Charlotte to try to get to the Final Four regardless of seeds :P


Prediction: We'll argue about this for the next week and Maryland, Baylor,and USC will win the conference tournaments :P

Some good points, there, radii, but they are all trumped by that fact your numbers don't take into account yet that Texas just got bum rushed by a mediocre Texas Tech team. collegerpi only updates every Monday and hasn't taken into consideration this week yet.

That is going to be a hit to Texas's RPI and SOS. And that also ignores the subjective impact. After all, the selection committee is human and makes the selections on numerous factors, and Texas is going to drop to maybe #10 in the polls this week with a loss like that. It's polls, so maybe means not much, but it's going to take more rollercoaster moves from others teams to remove that impression and put Texas back in the driver's seat. Not to mention, this loss will be in Texas's last 10 games, which we all know the selection committee looks at.

Then you toss in the natural "fit" of other candidates to regions. Tennessee or Memphis to the South. Duke/UNC to the East. UCLA to the West. Historically, the selection committee tends not to ignroe those affiliations in their seedings. Even if Texas gets a #1, perhaps in the West, or in the East, what favors does that do them, with UCLA #2 or Duke #2 in their own areas?

It would be better for Texas to grab a #2 in the South, where their fans can get to them easier, and hope to be playing Memphis or Tennessee down the line, rather than playing the Bruins in Arizona or the Blue Devils in North Carolina.

[Radii]

Yeah Chief you are probably right w/ most of that. I still think both Texas and Kansas are pretty much in the drivers seat as to who would get a #1 seed between the two of them if they can win the Big 12 Tournament, but you've sold me on Texas being behind UCLA. Of course all those scenarios assume everyone wins out. But if they do Texas beating Kansas again might not be enough.

[sterlingice]

I swear, it seems like there is a regional in Charlotte or Raleigh every year to send either UNC or Duke to.

SI

[JonInMiddleGA]

Tennessee survives Kentucky 63-60 in Knoxville.

If UK had any depth they would have won the game but they simply ran out of gas down the stretch.

[Lathum]

Yeah.

These last few games don't give me much faith in UT, it seems they wilt under the preassure of expectations.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Yeah.

These last few games don't give me much faith in UT, it seems they wilt under the preassure of expectations.

The Vandy game doesn't concern me too much, that was a perfect storm situation where the loss was pretty predictable IMO.

Kentucky OTOH, to some extent has UT's number. Part of that seems to be psychological, and part of it is that Kentucky does some things that give the Vols trouble. They handle the press reasonably well, they've got several athletic players with solid enough skills that they aren't blown away by the energy UT gets from being able to go so deep on the bench.

I'm not overly optimistic for anything beyond a Sweet 16 berth. The shooters are streaky, they don't defend the penetration & kick very well at times, they struggle to defend big men at times, and they don't protect leads well.

Then again, I'm a nervous wreck about the possibility of seeing a disaster in person tonight as the Lady Vols visit Athens. I'm from the Larry Munson & Vince Dooley School of Pessimism ;)

[Radii]

I swear, it seems like there is a regional in Charlotte or Raleigh every year to send either UNC or Duke to.

This is the first time I can ever remember the chance to play all the way to the final four in the state of North Carolina. I checked back to 1990 and its definitely not happened since then.

Charlotte has hosted a regional final in 1991, 2005, and 2008. Greensboro hosted a regional in 1998. Charlotte got the final four in 1994.

Its the first and second rounds where there's an edge, but really there's an edge for any regional power that is consistently being sent to the most advantageous region. If Tennessee or Memphis were consistently 1/2 seeds they'd be playing in their home state almost every year. Texas could be playing Regionals in San Antonio every 3rd year it seems if they made it that far as often as Duke/UNC ;) Or Indiana in Indianapolis.

First/Second Round games have been played in North Carolina in 11 years since 1990. Charlotte, Greensboro, Winston Salem, and more recently Raleigh.

The one team that seems to really potentially get screwed is Georgia Tech. Atlanta is a massively popular hosting site, and even though they play in the Georgia Dome and not Tech's home court, Georgia Tech is deemed the host school and therefore can't play there in the first round or the regional.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Indiana should ask for a running clock in this game against Michigan State.

[Radii]

Arizona is trying to hang in there vs UCLA but seems to be fading away, down 6 w/ 2 minutes left. Love is having a huge game, 24 pts/14 boards, over 1/3 of UCLA's points. Zona just got a bucket and trails by 4 w/ 1:30ish to go.

[Radii]

I'm not sure I understand Arizona's strategy on that last play... down 3 with 12 seconds to go, they take about 6 seconds to get the ball up the court and drive to the basket instead of taking a 3?

[Radii]

Oh, never mind. The strategy was to make one free throw, miss the second and have UCLA knock it out of bounds going for the rebound. Perfect.

[Radii]

Christ Arizona looked like dogshit those last two plays. That was pretty horrible.


So this weekend:

Memphis struggles some but puts away their opponent.
Duke has to stage a massive comeback to beat NC State by 1
UNC also has to go on a huge run to beat Boston College
Tennessee barely beats Kentucky
UCLA barely beats Arizona
Texas loses.

GOGO #1 seeds! :D

[Mr. Wednesday]

UCLA should have been called for an intentional foul with something like 5 minutes left in the game, as a UCLA player stuck out his foot to trip Budinger near the free throw line.

[Chief Rum]

Christ Arizona looked like dogshit those last two plays. That was pretty horrible.


So this weekend:

Memphis struggles some but puts away their opponent.
Duke has to stage a massive comeback to beat NC State by 1
UNC also has to go on a huge run to beat Boston College
Tennessee barely beats Kentucky
UCLA barely beats Arizona
Texas loses.

GOGO #1 seeds! :D

Heh...yeah, #1 seeds don't look too great. In UCLA's defense, that was in McKale. Not exactly an easy trip.

Arizona did look like shit at the end with their decision making. Just odd.

That said, if they don't get in to the tourney, that would suck. They have tons more talent than a lot of teams who will go (if they don't).

[Chief Rum]

UCLA should have been called for an intentional foul with something like 5 minutes left in the game, as a UCLA player stuck out his foot to trip Budinger near the free throw line.

Aboya went for the steal on a Budinger fake, and Budinger passed too close to Aboya as he tried to recover. Nothing intentional there. Right call on the straight up foul. Oh, and it was out past the three point line.

[Radii]

http://proxy.espn.go.com/ncb/bracketology

looks like Lunardi and Chief Rum are on the same page. At first glance, there are some really dangerous teams in the 7-10 seed range. Baylor has played some incredible games this year, Kansas State, Arizona, Mississippi State, Davidson, etc. Hell if that were the actual bracket I would probably fill out my sheet with Tennessee going down in the 2nd round.

On the ACC front, Clemson has finally played their way in. Miami, Virginia Tech, and Maryland are all very, very shaky, but all have winnable games to close out their seasons

[JonInMiddleGA]

These last few games don't give me much faith in UT, it seems they wilt under the pressure of expectations.

Vols trail Florida by 16 midway through the first half in Gainesville.
UT shooting 50% from the floor, Gators shooting 75%.

[MrBug708]

Navy went down on a last second long distance three point shot

[JonInMiddleGA]

55-42 Florida at the half, Gators still shooting 68% from the floor after hitting their first 9 in a row.

edit to add: 10 minutes left to play, Florida by 4.

[JonInMiddleGA]

70-69 Tennessee with 7:39 to go.
edit to add: 79-69 UT with 5:29 to go.
edit: 83-82 UT with 2:39 left.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Tennessee hangs on 89-86 and clinches the regular season SEC title.

[INDalltheway]

Stanford off to a hot start against UCLA.. I don't watch much Pac-10 basketball, but I really enjoy watching the Cardinal. The Lopez brothers are just fun to watch. They cause so many problems around the basket, which I think makes them really tough in the NCAA tournament.

Also, not a huge fan of Kevin Love.. He just looks like trailer trash and reminds me too much of Hansbrough. I know I am going to get killed for this because it seems like lots of UCLA and UNC fans frequent this thread. I realize they are both (Love and Hansbrough) players I would love if they were on the team I followed, but they aren't so that's how I feel. :)

[Arles]

Love is a phenominal player. He's an extremely talented and fundamental big man. Too many big men try to get by on size/ability alone, Love is a great passer, good shooter and has outstanding footwork. Essentially, he's like a Euro in the body of an american (ie, tough) big man.

[MrBug708]

UCLA lost their ability to shoot and shoot FT's :(

[INDalltheway]

Never doubted his skills. He doesn't look nor play like a freshman out there. I think part of my dislike (along with Hansbrough) is the talking heads constantly throwing these guys in my face, talking about how great they are. I realize Love doesn't get half the attention that Hansbrough gets, but he is in the same boat in my opinion. They both are great college basketball players, but something about the way they play isn't what I like in a player.

[Karlifornia]

Come, Cardinal! Hang tough!

[Karlifornia]

Come on, I mean! Come on, Cardinal. Gonna need Finger to hold it down against Love with Robin Lopez having picked up his 3rd.

[INDalltheway]

Can you say travel?

[INDalltheway]

That missed dunk was caused by the terrible non call when he traveled like crazy.

[Karlifornia]

Alright, Stanford up 7 with the ball. Lopez boys taking over, as is Collison. Collison is a lottery pick. He can hit every thing, and he's super quick. Mitch Johnson has done a hell of a job tonight, though. Gonna be a good last 7 minutes here.

[Chief Rum]

Coming down to the wire. My guess is Love makes these FTs and we're in a one possession game. Stanford has been terrific tonight.

[Chief Rum]

We're missing opportunities here. Glad we got that last one. Can't give Stanford another chance to move back to 7 up.

[Chief Rum]

Did he call that?

[INDalltheway]

How is Stanford going to blow this? I just have a bad feeling.

[Chief Rum]

And one! even as I speak. Sheesh, where is everyone? :)

[Chief Rum]

How is Stanford going to blow this? I just have a bad feeling.

Why can't it be UCLA taking it? They have been doing it all year. The announcers have it right--this Bruins team knows how to come back. They have done it a lot.

That said, I don't think we have tried to come back against anywhere near as good a team as we're playing tonight.

[INDalltheway]

And one! even as I speak. Sheesh, where is everyone? :)
I'm from Indiana and I'm here! ;)

[INDalltheway]

Dola..

It just seems like Stanford is scared and not playing smart late in this game. That is why I said that.

[Chief Rum]

Bad foul. Surprised Lopez missed the second free, too.

[Chief Rum]

Dola..

It just seems like Stanford is scared and not playing smart late in this game. That is why I said that.

Well, think about it. They're beating UCLA in Pauley, one of UCLA's best teams. I would think they might have some nerves, too. Imagine a very good but relatively less tradition-rich team like Wisconsin going into Indiana on their home court with the conference title on the line and winning?

Two very good teams here. Neither should be disappointed. There should be a #1 seed and a #2 seed here.

TIE BALL GAME!

[INDalltheway]

That was a horrible call.

[Chief Rum]

Wow, STanford almost doesn't get it across the timeline. Then Hill scores. Then Collison goes one on five and gets fouled!

[Chief Rum]

TIE again!

[INDalltheway]

I guess I would be scared playing in Pauley if I knew the home team was going to get a call like that at the end of the ball game.

[Chief Rum]

Foul happened too fast. I need to see it again to know. It looked like a good block to me, but then the camera angle here didn't show too well if there was a body or if one of the side guys got a hand in (I didn't even see who got called for it).

Overtime we go.

[Chief Rum]

I guess I would be scared playing in Pauley if I knew the home team was going to get a call like that at the end of the ball game.

Don't be a hater now. :)

[MrBug708]

UCLA got bailed out, but I'll take it

[INDalltheway]

Don't be a hater now. :)
:D I'm just an outsider with no ties to either team.. Nor bets.

[Chief Rum]

Bug, did you see a replay of the foul?

[Chief Rum]

:D I'm just an outsider with no ties to either team.. Nor bets.

Yeah, but you keep lumping Hansbrough and Love together! That's hater talk!

Feel the Love, man. He ain't no Hansbrough. And if you think you get Love thrown at ya, try being in Cali and having Gordon shoved in your face all the time. ;)

At least you can mostly hide from Pac 10 ball on ESPN. :)

[Chief Rum]

I think Westbrook landed on B Lopez's foot and turned his ankle. Ouch. :(

[INDalltheway]

I'm a Purdue guy so I'm tired of the Gordon hoopla too. I would much rather get the 4 freshman we got, guys that will be around for four years, than a guy like Gordon. I only see the Pac 10 when I come home to the extended cable, so I really don't try to hide from it! :)

[Chief Rum]

Okay, they just showed the foul. Stanford should be pissed.

[INDalltheway]

Weak stuff in this conference they call the Pac 10. The officials made the game about them, and they didn't let the players really decide the game. Nice comeback by UCLA, but it was definitely aided. Off to bed. It was fun hanging with you west coasters.

[Chief Rum]

I'm a Purdue guy so I'm tired of the Gordon hoopla too. I would much rather get the 4 freshman we got, guys that will be around for four years, than a guy like Gordon. I only see the Pac 10 when I come home to the extended cable, so I really don't try to hide from it! :)

Well, at least you get to see the best ball in the country. ;)

I like Purdue. Always liked Keady (yes, I know he's retired). Plus the Coach went there back in the day.

You guys seem pretty solid this year. Tough to bring a kiddie crew into the tourney, though.

WTF, Shipp? You're like a 90% FT shooter and you keep missing FTs!

[Chief Rum]

Weak stuff in this conference they call the Pac 10. The officials made the game about them, and they didn't let the players really decide the game. Nice comeback by UCLA, but it was definitely aided. Off to bed. It was fun hanging with you west coasters.

Stanford should have a win here. I hope the selection committee is watching. Stanford deserves a #2 at least (heck, knowing how tough the Pac 10 is, they should get a 1, although I know non-Pac-10 people will disagree).

Bug and I should go hide before Kalifornia gets back.

[INDalltheway]

Nice pass Love. Great layup Collison.. :rolleyes:

[MrBug708]

Nice pass Love. Great layup Collison.. :rolleyes:

Eh, the Stanford guy shot it when UCLA stopped defending him, so UCLA did it back.

Poor Stanford.

I'll take the win :)

[Chief Rum]

Eh, the Stanford guy shot it when UCLA stopped defending him, so UCLA did it back.

Poor Stanford.

I'll take the win :)

I'll take the win, too, and I think UCLA did a lot to deserve that win. That said, I feel awful that a terrible call like that gave the team the opportunity to win. Now UCLA deserves credit for taking that opportunity and making the most of it, but that was a BS call. Definitely all ball up top, and I didn't see any significant body either. Frankly, it wasn't a bright decision by Collison to go one on five.

[BishopMVP]

I think Westbrook landed on B Lopez's foot and turned his ankle. Ouch. :(Stanford should have gone after him at the other end the way he was limping. Poor recognition.

In A-10 news, St. Joe's with a huge win over Xavier. A-10 may yet get 3 in.

[SuperGrover]

I'll take the win, too, and I think UCLA did a lot to deserve that win. That said, I feel awful that a terrible call like that gave the team the opportunity to win. Now UCLA deserves credit for taking that opportunity and making the most of it, but that was a BS call. Definitely all ball up top, and I didn't see any significant body either. Frankly, it wasn't a bright decision by Collison to go one on five.

The call at the end of regulation was atrocious, especially considering the way the game was called all day. When a team like Stanford doesn't shoot a FT until 8 minutes left even though their offense runs through the post EVERY possession, you sure had Hell better not call a touch foul at the buzzer. Stanford got screwed there and in OT as well (if that's intentional, then there should be 5 intentional fouls every end game).

Just a horribly officiated game. UCLA did not deserve to win.

[SuperGrover]

Stanford should have a win here. I hope the selection committee is watching. Stanford deserves a #2 at least (heck, knowing how tough the Pac 10 is, they should get a 1, although I know non-Pac-10 people will disagree).

Bug and I should go hide before Kalifornia gets back.

You do know Stanford lost to Siena by 12 points correct? No other #1 seed candidate has a loss close to being that suspect.

Stanford couldn't beat the one elite team they played this season. Their OOC SOS was awful (best OOC was a 1 point win against Texas Tech). This team is in no way good enough to be a #1.

[Karlifornia]

Eh..I'm not too pissed about the foul call on Hill there at the end. It happens...you gotta keep playing. Stanford played an awesome 40 minutes of basketball, but sometimes that isn't enough against a great team, with a great coach, in a great building.

Collison won this game for UCLA. He's just a beast.

I'd like to see the two teams tangle again in the PAC-10 final, but who knows what'll happen in this wacky conference.

[Karlifornia]

You do know Stanford lost to Siena by 12 points correct? No other #1 seed candidate has a loss close to being that suspect.

Stanford couldn't beat the one elite team they played this season. Their OOC SOS was awful (best OOC was a 1 point win against Texas Tech). This team is in no way good enough to be a #1.

I don't think Stanford should be a number 1 seed even if they had won tonight's game, but stop bringing up the Siena game. Stanford didn't have uhm....who? Oh, just BROOK LOPEZ, their lottery pick center. No big loss, though.

[Chief Rum]

The call at the end of regulation was atrocious, especially considering the way the game was called all day. When a team like Stanford doesn't shoot a FT until 8 minutes left even though their offense runs through the post EVERY possession, you sure had Hell better not call a touch foul at the buzzer. Stanford got screwed there and in OT as well (if that's intentional, then there should be 5 intentional fouls every end game).

Just a horribly officiated game. UCLA did not deserve to win.

I would argue UCLA deserved to win. They aren't to blame for the refs. Collison made the free throws, regardless how he got them. UCLA came back from being down big, and Stanford let them. Stanford also didn't show up in OT at all (and that's all on them). The intentional foul was meaningless at that point.

Also, no one has brought up that UCLA even without the foul would have had an inbounds pass from under their own basket with 2.7 seconds to get two points. Not exactly a 100% Stanford wins situation (although certainly better than 2 FTs to Collison).

And as for the Stanford offense through the post situation, it appeared to me that every Stanford score I saw was either outside shots or Lopez fadeaways (neither of which generate much fouls). By comparison, UCLA in the second half was jumping at the basket, doing lots of runs into the lane, and Love doesn't do fadeaways--he goes right in like a bull.

All that said, yeah, that call at the end was complete BS (as I have said). Not trying to be a UCLA apologist, just pointing out that much of your post outside of your call opinion is, essentially, inaccurate.

[SuperGrover]

http://proxy.espn.go.com/ncb/bracketology

looks like Lunardi and Chief Rum are on the same page. At first glance, there are some really dangerous teams in the 7-10 seed range. Baylor has played some incredible games this year, Kansas State, Arizona, Mississippi State, Davidson, etc. Hell if that were the actual bracket I would probably fill out my sheet with Tennessee going down in the 2nd round.

On the ACC front, Clemson has finally played their way in. Miami, Virginia Tech, and Maryland are all very, very shaky, but all have winnable games to close out their seasons

Miami is a lock. They have won 6 of 7 and have several quality wins (dook, Clemson, @ Miss State). They needed to take care of business and have. the only way they don't make it is two consecutive losses and several upsets elsewhere (e.g., Butler and Kent State losing).

[Chief Rum]

You do know Stanford lost to Siena by 12 points correct? No other #1 seed candidate has a loss close to being that suspect.

Stanford couldn't beat the one elite team they played this season. Their OOC SOS was awful (best OOC was a 1 point win against Texas Tech). This team is in no way good enough to be a #1.

To each their own. I saw Stanford in January and I see them now. They are only getting better, a tremendous team. You put any of the other #1 seed candidates into this league, and I think it's quite likely Stanford finishes ahead of them.

[Chief Rum]

Eh..I'm not too pissed about the foul call on Hill there at the end. It happens...you gotta keep playing. Stanford played an awesome 40 minutes of basketball, but sometimes that isn't enough against a great team, with a great coach, in a great building.

Collison won this game for UCLA. He's just a beast.

I'd like to see the two teams tangle again in the PAC-10 final, but who knows what'll happen in this wacky conference.

I would love to see these two teams tangle again in the final. Heck, they both deserve it.

[SuperGrover]

I don't think Stanford should be a number 1 seed even if they had won tonight's game, but stop bringing up the Siena game. Stanford didn't have uhm....who? Oh, just BROOK LOPEZ, their lottery pick center. No big loss, though.

UCLA, UNC, and Kansas have all played several games without their best players. A #1 should still be able to win @ Siena with even their best layer out. I know Siena isn't terrible, but that is a bad loss.

If Stanford had a better OOC I could ignore the Siena loss. But their OOC was awful, They are in no way deserving of a #1. Not that you said they did but the original poster did.

[Chief Rum]

I don't think Stanford should be a number 1 seed even if they had won tonight's game, but stop bringing up the Siena game. Stanford didn't have uhm....who? Oh, just BROOK LOPEZ, their lottery pick center. No big loss, though.

Yup, very good point.

[SuperGrover]

You put any of the other #1 seed candidates into this league, and I think it's quite likely Stanford finishes ahead of them.

There's no sense arguing with someone so blinded by conference loyalty. that is an absolutely ridiculous statement. Do you really think Kansas or UNC would lose more than 4 games in the Pac 10? Really?

Wow.

[Chief Rum]

UCLA, UNC, and Kansas have all played several games without their best players. A #1 should still be able to win @ Siena with even their best layer out. I know Siena isn't terrible, but that is a bad loss.

If Stanford had a better OOC I could ignore the Siena loss. But their OOC was awful, They are in no way deserving of a #1. Not that you said they did but the original poster did.

Well, I can see that reasoning, too. I guess it's the best team now versus best season theory, like with the BCS. I think Stanford right now is in the argument for being one of the top four teams in the country. But if you consider their entire body of work, you're right that you can't outright ignore Siena or a weak OOC schedule.

[SuperGrover]

I would argue UCLA deserved to win. They aren't to blame for the refs. Collison made the free throws, regardless how he got them. UCLA came back from being down big, and Stanford let them. Stanford also didn't show up in OT at all (and that's all on them). The intentional foul was meaningless at that point.

Also, no one has brought up that UCLA even without the foul would have had an inbounds pass from under their own basket with 2.7 seconds to get two points. Not exactly a 100% Stanford wins situation (although certainly better than 2 FTs to Collison).

And as for the Stanford offense through the post situation, it appeared to me that every Stanford score I saw was either outside shots or Lopez fadeaways (neither of which generate much fouls). By comparison, UCLA in the second half was jumping at the basket, doing lots of runs into the lane, and Love doesn't do fadeaways--he goes right in like a bull.

All that said, yeah, that call at the end was complete BS (as I have said). Not trying to be a UCLA apologist, just pointing out that much of your post outside of your call opinion is, essentially, inaccurate.

I didn't say once that the officiating was a problem. I said that you can't not call fouls on several of Lopez's shot when he got tapped in the shooting arm and elbow and then call a brush in the body with 2.5 seconds to go. that is horribly inconsistent officiating.

The intentional in OT was also a veyr poor call. I watch a TON of basketball and see an intentional maybe every other game. That, my friend, was not an intentional.

What else is even in my post? that UCLA didn't deserve to win? They didn't. that it was a horribly officiated game? It was. Where is the inaccuracy? I'm not claiming Love is a fat prick and that Howland's waste of timeouts is extremely poor strategy. I didn't bemoan the fact that Collison played 43 minutes of ball pressure with nary a hand check called. i didn't complain about the lack of class for shooting a layup with a second to go.

For God sakes, admit you should have lost and move on. You'll feel much better in the end.

[Chief Rum]

There's no sense arguing with someone so blinded by conference loyalty. that is an absolutely ridiculous statement. Do you really think Kansas or UNC would lose more than 4 games in the Pac 10? Really?

Wow.

Do you really know so little about Pac 10 basketball?

UCLA is on a par with those two teams, no? UCLA lost to Washington on the road and USC at home. That's not even the top three teams in the conference. There was only one "easy out" in this conference in Oregon State. Unlike Kansas, UCLA doesn't have an Iowa State, Colorado AND Missourim nor does the Pac 10 feature any other teams besides OSU that lose by 40 like Texas Tech did--twice--in the past week or more. Unlike UNC, UCLA doesn't have four teams like GTech, BC, Virginia and NC State to beat up on. UNC loses two point guards, including Lawson, in ACC play and they can wing it. In the Pac 10, though, there is only one Oregon State. They have to fight tooth and nail to get a win against just about any other conference team (particularly on the road).

[Chief Rum]

Stanford should have a win here.

Fail reading comprehension, did ya, Super Grover?

[SuperGrover]

Well, I can see that reasoning, too. I guess it's the best team now versus best season theory, like with the BCS. I think Stanford right now is in the argument for being one of the top four teams in the country. But if you consider their entire body of work, you're right that you can't outright ignore Siena or a weak OOC schedule.

who has Stanford beaten to show they are one of the best four teams? Wash State? Who has Wash State beaten? you are starting to catch my drift.

Let's see how Stanford responds Saturday. I have a feeling they will be 25-6 in 48 hours.

[SuperGrover]

Do you really know so little about Pac 10 basketball?

UCLA is on a par with those two teams, no? UCLA lost to Washington on the road and USC at home. That's not even the top three teams in the conference. There was only one "easy out" in this conference in Oregon State. Unlike Kansas, UCLA doesn't have an Iowa State, Colorado AND Missourim nor does the Pac 10 feature any other teams besides OSU that lose by 40 like Texas Tech did--twice--in the past week or more. Unlike UNC, UCLA doesn't have four teams like GTech, BC, Virginia and NC State to beat up on. UNC loses two point guards, including Lawson, in ACC play and they can wing it. In the Pac 10, though, there is only one Oregon State. They have to fight tooth and nail to get a win against just about any other conference team (particularly on the road).

Let's see, I've seen the following Pac 10 games this season:

UCLA @ Oregon
UCAL @ Wash
UCLA @ Wash St
UCLA @ Stanford
UCLA @ Arizona
Arizona @ ASU
ASU @ Arizona
Stanford @Arizona
Oregon @ OSU (I was bored)
USC @ Arizona
UCLA @ USC
Wash State @ Cal

There's probably a couple more, but that is all I can think of now.

look, I know the Pac 10 is a damn good conference. I think it's the best in the nation, although if Marquette shows me something the Big East can overtake them. Nevertheless, UCLA is CLEARLY the elite team in the league. Stanford, while solid, is simply not in the same league. UCLA played horribly tonight and still won (albeit with some luck). 9 times out of 10 they are gonna whip the Cardinal. that's all there is to it.

Now, if you want to say UCLA would win any conference in the nation, I would find that defensible. Not that I agree, but at least I understand the argument.

Claiming that Stanford is better than Kansas, UNC, Memphis, et al. is ludicrous though. that would mean that UCLA is clearly better than every team in the nation. Sorry to inform you that just ain't the case. They might be as good, but they aren't better.

[Chief Rum]

I didn't say once that the officiating was a problem. I said that you can't not call fouls on several of Lopez's shot when he got tapped in the shooting arm and elbow and then call a brush in the body with 2.5 seconds to go. that is horribly inconsistent officiating.

The intentional in OT was also a veyr poor call. I watch a TON of basketball and see an intentional maybe every other game. That, my friend, was not an intentional.

What else is even in my post? that UCLA didn't deserve to win? They didn't. that it was a horribly officiated game? It was. Where is the inaccuracy? I'm not claiming Love is a fat prick and that Howland's waste of timeouts is extremely poor strategy. I didn't bemoan the fact that Collison played 43 minutes of ball pressure with nary a hand check called. i didn't complain about the lack of class for shooting a layup with a second to go.

For God sakes, admit you should have lost and move on. You'll feel much better in the end.

The call at the end of regulation was atrocious, especially considering the way the game was called all day. When a team like Stanford doesn't shoot a FT until 8 minutes left even though their offense runs through the post EVERY possession, you sure had Hell better not call a touch foul at the buzzer. Stanford got screwed there and in OT as well (if that's intentional, then there should be 5 intentional fouls every end game).

Just a horribly officiated game. UCLA did not deserve to win.

Here you go. I bolded the parts you got wrong.

And even that last part, IMO, is limited to the last call and the intentional call.

I won't even respond otherwise to the rest of your classy post above.

[SuperGrover]

Do you really know so little about Pac 10 basketball?

UCLA is on a par with those two teams, no? UCLA lost to Washington on the road and USC at home. That's not even the top three teams in the conference. There was only one "easy out" in this conference in Oregon State. Unlike Kansas, UCLA doesn't have an Iowa State, Colorado AND Missourim nor does the Pac 10 feature any other teams besides OSU that lose by 40 like Texas Tech did--twice--in the past week or more. Unlike UNC, UCLA doesn't have four teams like GTech, BC, Virginia and NC State to beat up on. UNC loses two point guards, including Lawson, in ACC play and they can wing it. In the Pac 10, though, there is only one Oregon State. They have to fight tooth and nail to get a win against just about any other conference team (particularly on the road).

Oh and Missouri is a better team than Washington and about as good as Oregon. Ga Tech, BC and UVa are all on the same caliber as Washington and Cal. UVa proved it by winning at Arizona earlier this season. Claiming they aren't is showing your ignorance of anything BUT Pac 10 basketball. Trying to say the ACC has a bunch of teams worse than Washington and CaL is an absolute joke.

[SuperGrover]

Here you go. I bolded the parts you got wrong.

And even that last part, IMO, is limited to the last call and the intentional call.

I won't even respond otherwise to the rest of your classy post above.

So are you saying that the officiating the majority of the game wasn't very lenient? Is that your claim? Are you trying to tell me that the last call wasn't completely out of character to the previous 39 minutes?

Simple yes or no question.

[Chief Rum]

Let's see, I've seen the following Pac 10 games this season:

UCLA @ Oregon
UCAL @ Wash
UCLA @ Wash St
UCLA @ Stanford
UCLA @ Arizona
Arizona @ ASU
ASU @ Arizona
Stanford @Arizona
Oregon @ OSU (I was bored)
USC @ Arizona
UCLA @ USC
Wash State @ Cal

There's probably a couple more, but that is all I can think of now.

look, I know the Pac 10 is a damn good conference. I think it's the best in the nation, although if Marquette shows me something the Big East can overtake them. Nevertheless, UCLA is CLEARLY the elite team in the league. Stanford, while solid, is simply not in the same league. UCLA played horribly tonight and still won (albeit with some luck). 9 times out of 10 they are gonna whip the Cardinal. that's all there is to it.

Now, if you want to say UCLA would win any conference in the nation, I would find that defensible. Not that I agree, but at least I understand the argument.

Claiming that Stanford is better than Kansas, UNC, Memphis, et al. is ludicrous though. that would mean that UCLA is clearly better than every team in the nation. Sorry to inform you that just ain't the case. They might be as good, but they aren't better.

First of all, I said "quite likely". I'm saying Stanford can be considered in the league of those teams and it's not impossible they could finish ahead of those teams if they both played a Pac 10 schedule.

I don't think UCLA is clearly better. I think Stanford is close to on par with UCLA, and I think UCLA is in a group with those other teams as one of the best in the nation, any of which is clearly capable of cutting down the nets.

I think you're overreaching to make a point and putting words in my mouth/overemphasizing things that are actually putting them well beyond what I intended.

[Chief Rum]

So are you saying that the officiating the majority of the game wasn't very lenient? Is that your claim? Are you trying to tell me that the last call wasn't completely out of character to the previous 39 minutes?

Simple yes or no question.

The last call was atrocious. Do you really want me to post quotes again?

We agree on that--it was an awful call, and, yes, it was out of character with the rest of the game. That doesn't mean the whole game was badly officiated or unevenly. That just means that call was awful. Does it impact the impression of the officiating as a whole? Of course. It turned a solid officiated game into one weighed down by a huge bad mark (that was otherwise fairly evenly and, yes, leniently called).

Sorry I didn't answer just "yes" or "no", but no one gave you the right to set the table.

[Chief Rum]

Oh and Missouri is a better team than Washington and about as good as Oregon. Ga Tech, BC and UVa are all on the same caliber as Washington and Cal. UVa proved it by winning at Arizona earlier this season. Claiming they aren't is showing your ignorance of anything BUT Pac 10 basketball. Trying to say the ACC has a bunch of teams worse than Washington and CaL is an absolute joke.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. One game does not make a season. Arizona does not make Virginia, nor does Siena make Stanford. Fact is, Virginia has played awful at times this year, as have the other teams you mention (and the ones I mention that you don't).

[SuperGrover]

First of all, I said "quite likely". I'm saying Stanford can be considered in the league of those teams and it's not impossible they could finish ahead of those teams if they both played a Pac 10 schedule.

I don't think UCLA is clearly better. I think Stanford is close to on par with UCLA, and I think UCLA is in a group with those other teams as one of the best in the nation, any of which is clearly capable of cutting down the nets.

I think you're overreaching to make a point and putting words in my mouth/overemphasizing things that are actually putting them well beyond what I intended.

I can only infer from your posts, and the inference I'm getting is that you think the following:

1. Stanford is as good as Kansas, UNC, Memphis, et al.
2. Washington and Cal are better than Missouri (who beat Texas, K State, Maryland, and Purdue), Texas Tech (who beat Gonzaga, Texas, and Kansas State and lost to Stanford by 1), Virginia (who beat Arizona on the road), BC, and Ga Tech (who beat Notre Dame, Clemson and barely lost to Kansas, Indiana, and UNC).
3. UCLA is not clearly the best team in the Pac 10.

This is what I perceive from your posts. I should tell you that you are absolutely incorrect and all of the assumptions (if you need help, I will bold the pieces that I think are inaccurate).

[SuperGrover]

The last call was atrocious. Do you really want me to post quotes again?

We agree on that--it was an awful call, and, yes, it was out of character with the rest of the game. That doesn't mean the whole game was badly officiated or unevenly. That just means that call was awful. Does it impact the impression of the officiating as a whole? Of course. It turned a solid officiated game into one weighed down by a huge bad mark (that was otherwise fairly evenly and, yes, leniently called).

Sorry I didn't answer just "yes" or "no", but no one gave you the right to set the table.

I DIDN'T SAY IT WAS A POORLY OFFICATED GAME. I said it was lenient. that doesn't mean poor if your are consistent. Jesus Christ, read for a second.

[Chief Rum]

The call at the end of regulation was atrocious, especially considering the way the game was called all day. When a team like Stanford doesn't shoot a FT until 8 minutes left even though their offense runs through the post EVERY possession, you sure had Hell better not call a touch foul at the buzzer. Stanford got screwed there and in OT as well (if that's intentional, then there should be 5 intentional fouls every end game).

Just a horribly officiated game. UCLA did not deserve to win.

See, this is sad. You are making me go back and pull your own quotes, bold them and supersize them.

[SuperGrover]

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. One game does not make a season. Arizona does not make Virginia, nor does Siena make Stanford. Fact is, Virginia has played awful at times this year, as have the other teams you mention (and the ones I mention that you don't).

Let's look at Washington. Here are some of the results from their season:

v Tex A&M L 14
V Syracuse L 6
@ Okie State L 25 (one of those shitty Big XII teams)
V Pitt L 1 (quality loss)
v Portland W 4 (not a quality win)

That's pretty much the only quality teams they played. Their best OOC win was Utah or LSU. Washington is simply not very good

Here's Cal:

v Missouri W 14 (solid home win)
@ KSU L 7 (not a bad loss)
v Utah L 2 (not a bad loss, although at home)

That's it. Again, no impressive OOC victories, but no awful losses either. Cal isn't a bad club and would finish about as well as Missouri or Ga Tech in the Big XII/ACC.

However, these teams are not significantly better than the majority of clubs KU and UNC play on a daily basis. And that doesn't include the two gimmies against OSU.

Like I said, the Pac 10 is a good conference from 2-9, but has only one elite team. That's UCLA. Stanford is a lot closer to the Clemson and KSU's of the world than the UNC's and KU's. That's not a bad thing, but it's reality.

[SuperGrover]

See, this is sad. You are making me go back and pull your own quotes, bold them and supersize them.

i apologize as I did not intend to imply the entire game was horribly officiated even though that's what I typed. My intention was to say the last minute and overtime were horribly officiated. I think it's pretty clear by the previous statement that's what I meant.

[Chief Rum]

I can only infer from your posts, and the inference I'm getting is that you think the following:

1. Stanford is as good as Kansas, UNC, Memphis, et al.
2. Washington and Cal are better than Missouri (who beat Texas, K State, Maryland, and Purdue), Texas Tech (who beat Gonzaga, Texas, and Kansas State and lost to Stanford by 1), Virginia (who beat Arizona on the road), BC, and Ga Tech (who beat Notre Dame, Clemson and barely lost to Kansas, Indiana, and UNC).
3. UCLA is not clearly the best team in the Pac 10.

This is what I perceive from your posts. I should tell you that you are absolutely incorrect and all of the assumptions (if you need help, I will bold the pieces that I think are inaccurate).

I think Stanford is right behind all of the #1 seeds. Remember, I said it's quite likely they would finish ahead of those teams in the Pac 10. I didn't say it would definitely happen. If we disagree on their ability, fine. I guess we'll see in the tourney, and if I am wrong, so be it, I'll man up.

I do think Cal is better than all of those teams. Washington, the second worst team in the Pac 10, is more likely on par--and they beat UCLA and Washington State. I am sure we can both dig up key wins and key losses uintil our faces turn blue. Wouldn't it be better to just agree to disagree? You know you're not going to change my mind, and I know I won't change yours.

UCLA is the best team in the Pac 10. They have shown that. But you don't see that Stanford is right there? They came in one game back in the conference standings, and you yourself day they should have beaten UCLA tonight. How can you say all that and not see that the gap between UCLA and Stanford is not all that big?

[Chief Rum]

i apologize as I did not intend to imply the entire game was horribly officiated even though that's what I typed. My intention was to say the last minute and overtime were horribly officiated. I think it's pretty clear by the previous statement that's what I meant.

I am sorry, but until this statement here, I don't think that was clear at all. And in fact you spoke on two different occasions about Lopez not getting calls. I am glad you see that you stated this and are backing off of it, but I can't agree your original point was pretty clear at all until now.

[Chief Rum]

i apologize as I did not intend to imply the entire game was horribly officiated even though that's what I typed. My intention was to say the last minute and overtime were horribly officiated. I think it's pretty clear by the previous statement that's what I meant.

Not to skirt over the apology. I apologize, too. I don't want to "go away mad" as it were (actually, I'm not mad, but I can see hurt feelings from this convo, and that's not what I want).

All the same to you, I have to go to bed, and frankly don't think there is much more to cover here. We just don't agree. And that's fine. Different strokes.

[SuperGrover]

I think Stanford is right behind all of the #1 seeds. Remember, I said it's quite likely they would finish ahead of those teams in the Pac 10. I didn't say it would definitely happen. If we disagree on their ability, fine. I guess we'll see in the tourney, and if I am wrong, so be it, I'll man up.

I do think Cal is better than all of those teams. Washington, the second worst team in the Pac 10, is more likely on par--and they beat UCLA and Washington State. I am sure we can both dig up key wins and key losses uintil our faces turn blue. Wouldn't it be better to just agree to disagree? You know you're not going to change my mind, and I know I won't change yours.

UCLA is the best team in the Pac 10. They have shown that. But you don't see that Stanford is right there? They came in one game back in the conference standings, and you yourself day they should have beaten UCLA tonight. How can you say all that and not see that the gap between UCLA and Stanford is not all that big?

Three things:

1. If you think Washington is on par with Missouri, Ga Tech and UVa the objective data I've put forth than this argument is over. How is a team with their pedigree better than the teams I've laid out? they aren't.

2. You said Stanford would "quite likely they would finish ahead of those teams in the Pac 10." i don't see how you can interpret any other than way than saying Stanford is better than the other #1 seed. Quite likely = probably. In this case, that means better. there's no other way to spin it.on

3. Stanford is two games behind UCLA with a tough game at USC remaining. they could easily finish three games back. Further, several of the games they won could've went either way (@ Arizona, @ Wash St., vs USC, v Ariz, v Wash). Only this game and the ASU game did they lose closely. UCLA, on the other hand, really only had three games come down to the wire (@ Arizona, vs, Stanford, and @ Oregon). Most other games they were in control of by the 5 minute mark.

Look, I'm done arguing with you because you are blinded by West Coast love. that's fine and dandy. As a UCLA fan, you should have some confidence in your team...to me they are clearly one of the three (maybe four if Louisville keeps playing like this) teams in the nation with KU and UNC. No one else in the conference is, but that is irrelevant.

[Chief Rum]

Three things:

1. If you think Washington is on par with Missouri, Ga Tech and UVa the objective data I've put forth than this argument is over. How is a team with their pedigree better than the teams I've laid out? they aren't.

2. You said Stanford would "quite likely they would finish ahead of those teams in the Pac 10." i don't see how you can interpret any other than way than saying Stanford is better than the other #1 seed. Quite likely = probably. In this case, that means better. there's no other way to spin it.on

3. Stanford is two games behind UCLA with a tough game at USC remaining. they could easily finish three games back. Further, several of the games they won could've went either way (@ Arizona, @ Wash St., vs USC, v Ariz, v Wash). Only this game and the ASU game did they lose closely. UCLA, on the other hand, really only had three games come down to the wire (@ Arizona, vs, Stanford, and @ Oregon). Most other games they were in control of by the 5 minute mark.

Look, I'm done arguing with you because you are blinded by West Coast love. that's fine and dandy. As a UCLA fan, you should have some confidence in your team...to me they are clearly one of the three (maybe four if Louisville keeps playing like this) teams in the nation with KU and UNC. No one else in the conference is, but that is irrelevant.

Sorry you failed to convince me. Better luck next time. I thought you had a chance for a while there.

[Radii]

RPI has Stanford 17th. A buddy of mine has been talking up Sagarin and Pomeroy rankings as much more accurate rankings systems and much more accurate predictors of general postseason chances/success. They rank Stanford 11th and 12th, respectively. Plus, we know how much the committee loves non-conference quality wins and tough non-conference schedules. Stanford has neither, when put up against the resume of the other 1 seed contenders. Stanford gets a 3 before it gets a 1.

Subjectively, I don't think Stanford wins any other major conference in the country with the exception of the SEC, where I think Tennessee and Vandy are highly vulnerable.

Siena is listed as a tourney team now in the latest bracketology ;) Stanford also appropriately IMO is listed as a 3 seed, and I think it would take winning the pac 10 tourney to bump them up to a 2. I don't think there is any reasonable scenario where they could jump to a 1.

Of course this is why college basketball is awesome. Stanford can still win 6 games like anyone else, etc. :D

[BishopMVP]

There was only one "easy out" in this conference in Oregon State. Unlike Kansas, UCLA doesn't have an Iowa State, Colorado AND Missouri nor does the Pac 10 feature any other teams besides OSU that lose by 40 like Texas Tech did--twice--in the past week or more. Unlike UNC, UCLA doesn't have four teams like GTech, BC, Virginia and NC State to beat up on. UNC loses two point guards, including Lawson, in ACC play and they can wing it. In the Pac 10, though, there is only one Oregon State. They have to fight tooth and nail to get a win against just about any other conference team (particularly on the road).I don't know where SuperGrover's going, but this statement is clear homerism/West Coast bias :) .

RealtimeRPI ranks

Conf 1: 4/8/22/43/50/72/73/96/108/287
Conf 2: 2/6/28/30/58/67/76/98/100/114/120/129
Conf 3: 5/7/32/34/35/47/70/91/92/107/159/187

Conference 1=PAC 10, 2=ACC, 3=Big 12

Yes, the PAC-10 is the best conference right now, but putting Missouri or any of the 4 ACC teams on the level of Oregon St. is ludicrous. In fact NC State is ahead of Washingotn and .0004 behind Cal. Both conferences have the 2 big dogs, then the Big 12 actually takes the lead with 4 sub 50 teams vs. 3 in the Pac10 and 2 in the ACC. 58-76 you have 2 Pac-10, 3 ACC and 1 Big 12. Then the 91-129 range which shouldn't be tough for a top 10 team is 2 Pac-10, 5 ACC and 3 Big12. Finally you have 2 pretty poor teams in the Big 12 and one abysmal one in the Pac 10.

[MrBug708]

http://www.bruinzone.com/b12/messages/71278.shtml

Replay of the play

[Chief Rum]

Oh, no, sorry if that was the impression I gave. I was arguing for the Pac 10 being top to bottom the best in comparison to the other top leagues. But there is no arguing about Oregon State. They are simply awful, perhaps the worst Big Six team in the country. I was more arguing for the quality of the other nine, and also noting that, as bad as OSU is, they are only two games on the schedule.

[BishopMVP]

Oh, no, sorry if that was the impression I gave. I was arguing for the Pac 10 being top to bottom the best in comparison to the other top leagues. But there is no arguing about Oregon State. They are simply awful, perhaps the worst Big Six team in the conference. I was more arguing for the quality of the other nine, and also noting that, as bad as OSU is, they are only two games on the schedule.Yeah, but you're also implying Cal and Washington are significantly better than Missouri and the bottom 4 ACC schools, which they aren't by computer analysis.

[Chief Rum]

Yeah, but you're also implying Cal and Washington are significantly better than Missouri and the bottom 4 ACC schools, which they aren't by computer analysis.

I never said they were significantly better. And in fact I already said I felt Washington was about on par with a lot of those teams. I do feel Cal is slightly better, based mostly on watching them play and knowing the talent they have on the roster.

One thing no one mentions, BTW, is that these other two conferences have 12 teams, not 10. So not only as you go down the list (1st place against 1st place; 2nd place against 2nd place, etc.) is there a slight numerical bias against the Pac 10, but these teams don't even all play every other team twice. Uneven schedules certainly can factor in here, too.

My main point has always been that the Pac-10 is the best top to bottom conference this year (not by leaps and bounds, but I believe they are), and that Stanford, for all its weak OOC schedule, has performed very well in that same said conference and were a blown refs call away from being right behind UCLA here, a team no one argues is substandard in any way.

[Karlifornia]

http://www.bruinzone.com/b12/messages/71278.shtml

Replay of the play

The majority of Bruin fans seem to disagree with their own point guard.

[Chief Rum]

The majority of Bruin fans seem to disagree with their own point guard.

Heh...and people think I'm a homer. :)

That call was pretty darn obvious(ly wrong).

[MrBug708]

The majority of Bruin fans seem to disagree with their own point guard.

Collison took back what he said at the press conference, once he saw the replay of the video

[Chief Rum]

Collison took back what he said at the press conference, once he saw the replay of the video

Wait a sec...what is Collison going to learn from the video replay that he doesn't already know? He was there!

[wade moore]

CAA Tourney started yesterday - I watched all 4 games live.

W&M led for about 4 minutes and never led again until a 25 foot shot put them ahead by 1 with 1.6 seconds left and we pull out the win!

Headed back to watch 4 more games today, should be a blast!

[miami_fan]

Big South Final is on ESPN2. Kenny George just looks uncomfortable. 7-7 360lbs

[Lathum]

Big South Final is on ESPN2. Kenny George just looks uncomfortable. 7-7 360lbs

I'm watching this game. The kid is a freak, I would love to see him in the tournament but it won't happen it looks lke

[Lathum]

If someone could actualy teach George to play basketball he would be dangerous

[rjolley]

He'd have to drop some weight as well. Bad thing about being that height and playing basketball is the stress and strain it puts on your knees. Being 360-380lbs won't help that at all.

Edit: His free throws and shooting touch are a lot better than Shaq's.

[timmynausea]

West Virginia hopefully locked up their spot in the tournament with their 11th Big East win today at the Garden over St. Johns. Joe Mazulla drove the length of the floor in the final 5.5 seconds, banking in a layup with 0.3 on the clock to send it to OT, where the Mountaineers finally put the Red Storm away.

6'8" forward Joe Alexander has been one of those guys always mentioned as "1st Round NBA athletic ability if he can ever put everything together." This past week he has put it together with 32 points and 10 rebounds in a loss at UConn, 32 more plus 6 boards in a win over Pitt, and 29 and 10 today. Can't wait to see what he can do in the Big East tournament and beyond.

[SuperGrover]

That WVU win was huge. Without it, they would've been in trouble.

Miami, UAB and St. Joe all crapped the bed today. Of the three, I think Miami is the only one still in, but they had better not lose next Friday when they play against NC State, BC or UVa.

USC handles Stanford easily. USC looks to be the second most dangerous tourney team from the Pac 10 in my opinion. Stanford looking at a 3-4 seed unless they run the table next week.

[Logan]

A shot over the backboard appears to win the game for UCLA. Unreal.

[Lathum]

A shot over the backboard appears to win the game for UCLA. Unreal.

no, a no call from the refs gave them the win.

[Logan]

I love how CBS waited roughly 15 minutes to show that replay.

[Karlifornia]

That WVU win was huge. Without it, they would've been in trouble.

Miami, UAB and St. Joe all crapped the bed today. Of the three, I think Miami is the only one still in, but they had better not lose next Friday when they play against NC State, BC or UVa.

USC handles Stanford easily. USC looks to be the second most dangerous tourney team from the Pac 10 in my opinion. Stanford looking at a 3-4 seed unless they run the table next week.

Stanford handled USC easily at Maples, what's your point?

[Scoobz0202]

So..

UCLA is catching a lot of officiating breaks lately, eh? :)

[Eaglesfan27]

Stanford handled USC easily at Maples, what's your point?

I thought his point was fairly clear. In his opinion, USC is the 2nd most dangerous team from the Pac-10 come tourney time. Personally, I agree with that, but Stanford is right up there.

Edit: A 6 point win isn't that easily handled by the way ;)

[Arles]

Assuming ASU can beat Oregon State (which should be a given) and Arizona wins one of their next two (Oregon tonight or OSU in the 1st round of tourney), the Pac-10 should have 6 teams in UCLA, Stanford, USC, WSU, Arizona and ASU. Oregon has an outside chance, but they will need to make a run in the tourney.

[JonInMiddleGA]

And in one of those quirky bits of symmetry, the ACC women's tournament comes down to a Duke-UNC final tomorrow after Duke upset Maryland earlier today.

[miami_fan]

Let's get this out the way early.

Dicky V is going to blow the Dookies all game long.

Duke will get X number of calls throughout the game.

Am I missing anything?

[MrBug708]

So..

UCLA is catching a lot of officiating breaks lately, eh? :)

It's rather refreshing

[Radii]

Its really, really nice seeing Carolina play some defense.

[Lathum]

Speedo Guy, nice

[Radii]

Solid first half. Lawson is nowhere near 100%, a few times he looked like he tried to go by someone but his body won't let him. He got to the basket a couple times though as well. But mainly this is the best I've seen UNC play defense all year I think. They left Paulus way too open a few times but all in all I'm pleased. Duke will make a run and this'll get real close but I'm happy so far.

[MrBug708]

Radii, Tyler isn't very good at passing out of the post is he?

[Radii]

Radii, Tyler isn't very good at passing out of the post is he?

Not at all. He's usually very quick and if the doubleteam isn't there *right* when the ball gets there he has the advantage. But, when the doubleteam gets there or he has a bad angle, he just doesn't kick the ball out well/often at all. He's so strong and has such good touch that he gets away with it a lot. But there are times where I just don't understand why he works SO hard to get his shot when he's being covered by 2 people and you know someone is open and if you kick it out quickly someone's going to get an open shot.

[Radii]

oh man Paulus going right by Lawson makes me sad.

[wade moore]

CAA Tourney started yesterday - I watched all 4 games live.

W&M led for about 4 minutes and never led again until a 25 foot shot put them ahead by 1 with 1.6 seconds left and we pull out the win!

Headed back to watch 4 more games today, should be a blast!

Wow. We pull off the shocker in another down to the wire win 63-60 against ODU.

This is the first time W&M has won two conference games or played on Sunday in the conference tourney.

We play #1 VCU (the team that beat Duke in the tourney last year) tomorrow at 3pm.

[Radii]

Duke is really outhustling UNC early in the half. These offensive rebounds are sickening.

[MrBug708]

Not at all. He's usually very quick and if the doubleteam isn't there *right* when the ball gets there he has the advantage. But, when the doubleteam gets there or he has a bad angle, he just doesn't kick the ball out well/often at all. He's so strong and has such good touch that he gets away with it a lot. But there are times where I just don't understand why he works SO hard to get his shot when he's being covered by 2 people and you know someone is open and if you kick it out quickly someone's going to get an open shot.

Fair enough. Maybe I'm spoiled by Kevin Love now :)

[Radii]

Fair enough. Maybe I'm spoiled by Kevin Love now :)

Love is awesome(and will make a better pro I'm about 99% sure). Its really hokey but Hansbrough really is as good as he is b/c of his hustle. He's a good player, but by no stretch is he a great one. But he's working harder than anyone else on the court on either team every single play.

[Radii]

Hansbrough with a kick out for a 3!!!!

[JonInMiddleGA]

And on the women's side, Tennessee rallies from an early 10 point defecit to beat #21 Vandy 63-48. As expected, it'll be LSU & UT tomorrow for the SEC tournament title.

[st.cronin]

Henderson putting the ball on the floor has absolutely killed Duke in the second half.

[Radii]

With about 3 minutes to go Paulus missed two wide open shots in a row short, when Duke was pulling the ball out to eat up some clock. I think they're tired... Paulus is for sure.

[Lathum]

Man, UNC showed some heart down the stretch

[Eaglesfan27]

Man, UNC showed some heart down the stretch

Agreed. Very good display for them down the stretch.

[BishopMVP]

Love the no-call on the Duke player trying to jump into Hansbrough for 3 FT's. I hate when players rely on referees instead of trying to hit a shot.

UMass wins, locks up the #3 seed for the A-10 tournament. They should be in now, but let's get a couple more wins in AC to seal it. This is a team that can do some damage against #4/5/6 seeds.

[Radii]

Huge win. Duke shut down Hansbrough as good as anyone has all season(and Hansbrough was *really* forcing it at times). I'm really impressed with this win. ACC Regular Season champions, woohoo!!!

[INDalltheway]

I like watching this UNC team. Hansbrough definitely has grown on me. You really have to respect how hard he plays. His putback with about 2 minutes left was so expected. I knew when the scrum started that he would end up with the ball and score it. Sure enough, that's what happened.

[Radii]

IM with Duke fan friend(neither of us are really big trash talkers):

About 2 minutes of normal conversation:

Me: Duke did a great job doubleteaming Hansbrough tonight, best defense on him all year I think
Him: Well really just the refs didn't call bullshit fouls all night like usual
Him: But they still let him travel every time he touched the ball


I should wait for a better spot to bring this up b/c i know he's annoyed that his team lost and the point would be better if it wasn't involving my own team. But this happens when we watch games not involving either team pretty much constantly. I know the UCLA games the last few days have had some pretty critical decisions at the end and I've just kept my mouth shut on those, but jesus fucking christ I don't think anyone anywhere thinks their teams ever lose a game b/c of bad play. The refs decide every fucking game that gets played ever.

A better example is Missouri/Kansas' last game, buddy of mine is a Missouri fan, Kansas wins the game by 19, leads the entire way by a good bit. After the game his only comments are about how the refs favor the big school and Missouri doesn't have a chance because they have to play against the refs. Really? In a 19 point god damn loss?

I stay away from team fan sites, even UNC ones, because they are usually filled with such idiocy that I want to root against my own team given how stupid some UNC fans can be, but its the same with any team. But it seems like its everywhere now. We don't watch games for a good game anymore. We watch them to see who gets cheated the least.

If a call that is egregiously bad decides the end of a game, I understand the comments(though I don't think you've ever seen me make one in any sport) and the frustration, but if someone misses a palming call or gets a charge wrong at full speed in the middle of a game, just shut the fuck up about it.

/end rant

(hopefully its clear I'm not talking to anyone here over anything, I'm just frustrated b/c much of the fun of being a fan is watching and discussing games with others, and I feel like that's almost impossible unless you're primarily judging the refs)

[SuperGrover]

I thought his point was fairly clear. In his opinion, USC is the 2nd most dangerous team from the Pac-10 come tourney time. Personally, I agree with that, but Stanford is right up there.

Edit: A 6 point win isn't that easily handled by the way ;)

Thanks Eaglesfan. I thought the sentence was pretty clear.

USC is a dangerous team and has proven as much against KU, Memphis, UCLA and Stanford. They'll be a lower seed (6/7) with a legitimate shot at making the regional final.

[Noop]

I thought the refs were going in UNC's favor. Hansbrough travelled all night basically and a few charges where called blocking fouls. I have no horse in this race but it did seem like UNC was getting most of the calls.

[SuperGrover]

I thought the refs were going in UNC's favor. Hansbrough travelled all night basically and a few charges where called blocking fouls. I have no horse in this race but it did seem like UNC was getting most of the calls.

dook had three team fouls in the second half until intentionally fouling end game. hansbrough, who averages 10.7 FTA per game and is the ACC all-time FTA leader, shot 0 FTs with 21 FGA. On the season, he gets 1 FTA per every 1.23 FGA. using season averages he would've shot 17 FTs. He shot 0.

I don't think UNC got screwed because the refs didn't call anything. However, I don't see how anyonce could claim UNC had an officiating advantage in the game. The numbers simply don't back it up.

There were 24 fouls in the game until 4 late intentional fouls, 3 by dook and 1 by UNC. The 24 were split evenly between UNC and dook. It was a very fairly called game...it's just that nothing was called.

[Radii]

It was a well played, hard fought game by two great teams that wanted to win for many, many reasons. There were just no egregious calls, no way or reason to make the refs the story. So why bring the refs up is my point.

I really, really should have saved this rant for a non-UNC game. I've been stewing and steaming over random irrelevant referee bitchfests for much of the season, honestly in games where *I* don't have a horse in the race, shoulda gone off on one of them instead. Maybe I will still, I need to get pissed off on the internet more often. :)

[Noop]

I am giving my objective opinion. It did seem like UNC was getting all the calls maybe I was to busy looking at the waitress's at Hooters to notice it was an even slipt. As for Hansbrough not getting fouled alot well thats simple to explain because everytime he got the ball the defender kept his hands up and did not jump to block any of his shot of attempts.

[Chief Rum]

It's rather refreshing

Heh...

Worried, though, we'll become the new Duke (not the type of basketball power I want UCLA to become). Of course, I don't think we have gotten a ton of calls before this week (at least not more than normal), so thinking so is probably overblown a bit.

Bad ref call or not, that was one hell of a shot by Shipp.

[Chief Rum]

Love the no-call on the Duke player trying to jump into Hansbrough for 3 FT's. I hate when players rely on referees instead of trying to hit a shot.

UMass wins, locks up the #3 seed for the A-10 tournament. They should be in now, but let's get a couple more wins in AC to seal it. This is a team that can do some damage against #4/5/6 seeds.

AC?

Only AC acronym I am aware of stands for "air conditioning".

[Chief Rum]

I like watching this UNC team. Hansbrough definitely has grown on me. You really have to respect how hard he plays. His putback with about 2 minutes left was so expected. I knew when the scrum started that he would end up with the ball and score it. Sure enough, that's what happened.

Now you like Hansbrough? Sheesh, you change your mind like John Kerry! :D

[dawgfan]

But he's working harder than anyone else on the court on either team every single play.
No disrespect to Hansbrough, but there's no way he's outworking Jon Brockman. Tyler Hansbrough may have more talent than Jon Brockman, but there's no way he out works him on the basketball court.

[BishopMVP]

AC?

Only AC acronym I am aware of stands for "air conditioning".Atlantic City, New Jersey, where the A-10 tournament is being held. The poor, poor, New York man's version of Vegas. Silly west-coasters. :)

[INDalltheway]

Now you like Hansbrough? Sheesh, you change your mind like John Kerry! :D

:D I think it had something to do with him not getting all the silly calls going his way last night! Honestly, I think you talked a little sense into me in regards to Hansbrough and Love.

The officiating was not bad at all last night. They didn't turn the game into a constant foul fest. They didn't decide the games and let the players do it. Besides being overly emphatic on their calls, I had no problems as an outsider watching this game.

[cartman]

Woot! Texas beats Oklahoma State and wins the Big 12 regular season title by virtue of their win over Kansas, and gets the #1 seed for the Big 12 tourney next weekend. A.J. Abrams was ice cold the whole game, going 1 for 14 before hitting a two and a three in the final couple of minutes to seal the win.

[INDalltheway]

Congrats to Wade.. W&M knocked off VCU to get one game closer to that automatic bid..

[Dr. Sak]

Just got home from Penn State...I was 5 rows off the court to see Penn State knock of Indiana in OT. Penn State did it without their top 2 guys (injured) and started 4 freshman and 1 junior.

[wade moore]

Congrats to Wade.. W&M knocked off VCU to get one game closer to that automatic bid..

I'm likely going to start a whole thread about this, but this is incredible.

Prior today in our 20+ history in the CAA (not sure exactly what year we joined, but it was around 85) we have had three CAA Tourney wins. Period. That's it.

We've had THREE this weekend by a combined 5 points.

Now we play tonight on ESPN for a chance to go to the NCAA Tourney. We are one of 5 teams that have been playing Div I basketball for 50+ years and never made the tourney (Army, The Citadel, Northwestern, and St. Francis of New York are the others).

[MJ4H]

Win or lose, I love John Pelphrey. Here is what he did after our team failed to get back on defense on one trip down the floor (put his foot through the sign on the scorers table).

http://focus.arkansasonline.com/images/photos/100035/2008/03/08/gallery/1821966.jpg

[Klinglerware]

Looks like Amaker is running a pretty loose ship at Harvard:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/02/sports/ncaabasketball/02harvard.html

Assuming the allegations of improper contact are true, I wonder why Amaker would need to do this--I would think that Amaker could attract recruits to Harvard simply because he is a rather high profile coach (by Ivy League standards anyway).

The other thing that piqued my interest was his recruiting strategy. The class he assembled was by all accounts impressive (again by Ivy standards). The problem was that many of the recruits are still inadmissable per Ivy rules (some of the recruits still do not have the required GPA/SAT minimums). It seemed rather risky to put so many eggs in that basket knowing that some of them may not be admitted, now it looks like Harvard may have to scramble to fill their recruiting slots.

[Butter]

Amaker learned about cheating from the best.

[SuperGrover]

Amaker learned about cheating from the best.

Kind of a stretch no? I hate dook more than anyone but K hasn't been implicated in anything other than Maggette-gate and his involvement in that was probably minor at best.

[Arles]

Jeez, Arizona is laying the beatdown on poor Oregon State as it's 59-21 at halftime. Oregon State is putrid, but the numbers are sick for Zona: 71% from the field and 8-11 from 3-point land with OSU shooting 26%.

It's one thing to have this as a mismatch non-conf game, but to have a score like that in a major conference tourney is rediculous.

[bhlloy]

Jeez, Arizona is laying the beatdown on poor Oregon State as it's 59-21 at halftime. Oregon State is putrid, but the numbers are sick for Zona: 71% from the field and 8-11 from 3-point land with OSU shooting 26%.

It's one thing to have this as a mismatch non-conf game, but to have a score like that in a major conference tourney is rediculous.

I was at this game (wife had free tickets, and all we really wanted to see was Cal-Washington), and left after it was something like 35-12. Arizona just couldn't miss from outside. What was really sad was that OSU's defense was trying so hard, and Arizona would just pass around the oncoming defender and drain the wide open three. That, and nobody on OSU wanted (or could ever hope to get) any piece of Jordan Hill inside. Most of the crowd was cheering for OSU, but it was a complete slaughter out there. The 10 year old girls teams they had on at half time of the first game wouldn't have been any worse on the defensive end.

[MrBug708]

Wooooooooooooooooooooooooo! Fab Five Class to UCLA!
------------------------------
Sources told FOXSports.com that new LSU coach Trent Johnson plans to honor signee J'mison Morgan's request and will release the senior big man from his Natonal Letter of Intent on Tuesday afternoon, effectively paving the way for Morgan to land at UCLA.

[MrBug708]

A rumor going around that Kansas had an ineligible player this year

[mckerney]

A rumor going around that Kansas had an ineligible player this year

So I could end up getting the results to my tournament pool overturned? :)

[sterlingice]

There's some stuff out there about Darrell Arthur's high school fudging his grades and making him eligible for games when he was there.

That said, I'm not sure how that affects Kansas as it happened before he got there and was cleared by the NCAA Clearinghouse to play in college.

SI

[MrBug708]

If he doesnt have the grades and are removed, he isn't eligible :)

Then again, Morgan is from the same HS

[Groundhog]

If that turns out to be the case, it would be a real shame. If a team isn't aware of the problem and nor is the NCAA until after the fact, it would really suck if the team had to forfeit their championship.

Even so, maybe I shouldn't have thrown away my losing receipt for the bet I put on Memphis. :(

[MrBug708]

Alex Stephenson is transferring from UNC

[Groundhog]

Alex Stephenson is transferring from UNC

I guess Hansbrough sticking around for another year didn't make Stephenson too happy.

[MrBug708]

His dad is also sick

[sterlingice]

If he doesnt have the grades and are removed, he isn't eligible :)

Then again, Morgan is from the same HS

Considering ESPN, CBS, CNNSI, and Fox Sports haven't even picked up the story, I'm guessing this isn't going to make any waves. It's a he said-she said thing where a fired math teacher is airing student records illegally and everyone else is denying it was done. In the end, it was something that happened in high school before he came to Kansas. So I think it's safe to assume Memphis isn't suddenly going to get awarded the title or something silly like that.

Hell, even the LJ World, the local Lawrence paper, has dropped it off the front page of the website and they'll keep anything about KU near the top of the page. So, yes it couldn't beat out "Bike paths proposed at Wells Overlook", "Journalism student overcomes personal demons to finish degree", and "LHS special education teacher receives Bobs’ Award".

There do seem to be a lot of stories about NCAA basketball scandals on those pages right now but they're about Indiana and OJ Mayo.

SI

[wbatl1]

Alex Stephenson is transferring from UNC

Do you have a source for this? This has floated around as a rumor for the last month or so, but I haven't seen any credible evidence to date. While it would not suprise me a great deal if he did transfer, I would be disappointed.

[wbatl1]

Alex Stephenson is transferring from UNC

Do you have a source for this? This has floated around as a rumor for the last month or so, but I haven't seen any credible evidence to date. While it would not suprise me a great deal if he did transfer, I would be disappointed.

And now, it is official.

[MrBug708]

Do you have a source for this? This has floated around as a rumor for the last month or so, but I haven't seen any credible evidence to date. While it would not suprise me a great deal if he did transfer, I would be disappointed.

Eh, the guy on BRO mentioned that he heard that Alex was thinking of transferring and posted on IC, Of coruse, he was blasted for it but now IC is in total denial mode that they had any knowledge of it. I'm not sure why he is transferring based on playing time, Roy brought in a bunch of 3's masquerading as 4's and AS is a 5.

Oh well, there loss is UCLA's gain :)

[wbatl1]

Eh, the guy on BRO mentioned that he heard that Alex was thinking of transferring and posted on IC, Of coruse, he was blasted for it but now IC is in total denial mode that they had any knowledge of it. I'm not sure why he is transferring based on playing time, Roy brought in a bunch of 3's masquerading as 4's and AS is a 5.

Oh well, there loss is UCLA's gain :)

Yea, the reason I was suspicious in the first place was my inherent distrust and dislike for those message boards. However, the UNC release cites his family's health issues as the reason for the transfer, and I truly believe that it is a major factor. He left the team for a week in early Jan. to go home when his father was having an especially difficult time. And, in a feel-good story, UNC was able to pay his way as well due to NCAA rules.

[MrBug708]

Indeed. His dad doesn't have a life threatening sickness, just is sick and Alex wanted ot be closer to him

[Radii]

Yea, the reason I was suspicious in the first place was my inherent distrust and dislike for those message boards. However, the UNC release cites his family's health issues as the reason for the transfer, and I truly believe that it is a major factor. He left the team for a week in early Jan. to go home when his father was having an especially difficult time. And, in a feel-good story, UNC was able to pay his way as well due to NCAA rules.

That is disappointing, he was showing some signs of developing into a pretty nice player and had put together a few nice games towards the end of the year.

[wbatl1]

That is disappointing, he was showing some signs of developing into a pretty nice player and had put together a few nice games towards the end of the year.

Concur, and he also was one of the good-guys on the team.

[timmynausea]

Five star recruit Devin Ebanks committed to WVU today over Memphis, Texas and Rutgers. That gives Huggins 3 top 150 recruits (on rivals) in his first class at WVU.

[Chief Rum]

Five star recruit Devin Ebanks committed to WVU today over Memphis, Texas and Rutgers. That gives Huggins 3 top 150 recruits (on rivals) in his first class at WVU.

Heh...better WVU than Memphis. They are already ridicously talented. Yes, I know this is silly to say being a UCLA fan. ;)

[Swaggs]

Great news on Ebanks.

Hopefully Joe Alexander will opt out of the NBA draft and return for his senior season, which could be pretty special for the Mountaineers.

[sterlingice]

If he doesnt have the grades and are removed, he isn't eligible :)

Then again, Morgan is from the same HS

If that turns out to be the case, it would be a real shame. If a team isn't aware of the problem and nor is the NCAA until after the fact, it would really suck if the team had to forfeit their championship.

Even so, maybe I shouldn't have thrown away my losing receipt for the bet I put on Memphis. :(

Update: crazy talk debunked. What? A sensational Dallas paper and a teacher with an axe to grind turn out to be false? So all the premature speculation about KU giving up the trophy was wrong. There's a shocker.

ESPN - Ex-Jayhawks F Arthur's high school grades cleared by Dallas district - Men's College Basketball (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=3527008)

Don't get me wrong. There still might have been some silliness with his grades but that never happens with athletes. However, as I said, nothing was going to come of it.

SI