NBA Draft Lottery/Draft/Offseason thread.

[Coffee Warlord]

And now I hold out the hopes that Detroit throws a ton of money at Ben Gordon.

[Chief Rum]

The results dont really lie. There is a reason the European teams can play with the USA since 1992 and we probably would all agree the USA has better athletes as far as basketball is concerned.

1992? Don't you mean 2000?

If you saw someone playing competitively with either the first or the second Dream Teams, let me know where cuz I musta missed it.

[Radii]

*Tho, realistically, we won because we got really lucky and they bricked a bunch of FTs and we got a miracle pair of threes down the stretch.

To be fair, when you can play a close game against a poorly coached, undisciplined, terrible freethrow shooting team that is loaded with athletes and used to blowing everyone out, you put yourself in a great position to get lucky.

[jbergey22]

If you don't think athleticism is a critical reason the NBA is the top league, you are crazy.

How many guys with the athleticism of a Rajon Rondo has young Ricky faced? Guess what, every team in this league has freakish athletes. You are talking about a league full of 6'9" and above PF/C who can make PG's lives miserable when they penetrate. Especially guys who take SET SHOTS from beyond 15 feet. (Yeah, I'm talking about Rubio, see how quickly that set shot works in this league. . . I'd have loved to have seen him try it at the college level too)

Lastly, when are people going to understand what went wrong with USA basketball from '92 til this year? Is it really that tough to figure out? We had a bunch of all-stars playing selfishly, coaches who mailed it in (I'm looking at you Larry Brown and George Karl), no familiarity with each other, and everyone tried to play the NBA game on an international level.

A few years ago we decided to get smart. Get a coach who took it seriously, force players to make commitments, got leadership from the best players, put in a system that could excel in international competition,

From that point on, we started blitzing teams again. Not just beating them, but pounding them. Look at the results:

2008 FIBA qualifying:

US played Argentina twice, beating them 91-76 and then 118-81 in the championship game. They didn't lose a game in the tourney and scored 112 points in 9 of their 10 games. (no other team in the tourney scored over 108 points and there were only 7 games where a non USA team scored 100 points)

2008 Olympics:

The US crushed every team they played by over 20 points until the final. Spain put up a fight and the US still won by 11. Rubio hit one shot in 29 minutes in that game by the way.

Again, if you want to pretend athleticism in basketball doesn't matter, be my guest. I can assure you that you are wrong in that assessment.

Nice rant! Unfortunately this rant was all for not because really who said athleticism didnt matter????

[Sublime 2]

If the Celtics are able to get Rasheed and re-sign Marbury, the offseason will have been a huge PLUS. Especially considering the pretty unspectacular offseason they had last year. If they are able to add in another PF/C body behind KG, Perk, and Sheed...even better!

[DeToxRox]

Good to see Joe Dumars is content having a team that plays no defense ever. Apparently Charlie Eyebrows and Ben Gordon are closing in on verbal agreements.

Get Dumars out of there, this is terrible.

[jbergey22]

1992? Don't you mean 2000?

If you saw someone playing competitively with either the first or the second Dream Teams, let me know where cuz I musta missed it.

You would be correct I had forgotten about DT2.

[jbergey22]

I am not sure Memphis had better athletes than Kansas at all. Derrick Rose was obviously the best player on the court, but Kansas might have had the next 6 or 7 after that. A big deal was made out of Dorsey, but I think had he been on Kansas' roster, he would have been behind Cole Aldrich.

Kansas won in 2008 because they had the most talent, as did UNC in 2009.

Kansas had more talent Memphis had more athleticism. Dozier, Dorsey, and Taggart(to a lesser extent) were all 6 9, 6 10 and could jump and run like few other players that size and a huge reason they had such a dominate defense.

And yes Kansas was also very athletic as well. Kansas had better athletes at the non big positions.

[Samdari]

Kansas had more talent Memphis had more athleticism. Dozier, Dorsey, and Taggart(to a lesser extent) were all 6 9, 6 10 and could jump and run like few other players that size and a huge reason they had such a dominate defense.

And yes Kansas was also very athletic as well. Kansas had better athletes at the non big positions.

You mention 3 great athletes. Kansas had far, far more. That was my point about MORE, not better.

[DaddyTorgo]

If the Celtics are able to get Rasheed and re-sign Marbury, the offseason will have been a huge PLUS. Especially considering the pretty unspectacular offseason they had last year. If they are able to add in another PF/C body behind KG, Perk, and Sheed...even better!

Sheed? Yuck. No thanks.

[RainMaker]

Good to see Joe Dumars is content having a team that plays no defense ever. Apparently Charlie Eyebrows and Ben Gordon are closing in on verbal agreements.

Get Dumars out of there, this is terrible.
I've been really non-committal to what happens with Gordon in Chicago. I wouldn't mind having his scoring back but I also know he is a horrific defender.

[Sublime 2]

Sheed? Yuck. No thanks.

If they get him for the MLE for two years, then I'm 100% behind it. That interior D would be a nightmare for opposing teams, and his ability to stretch the floor continues to open up the lane for Rondo/Allen/Pierce/TA etc. If we only have one motivated year of Sheed, it's well worth it!

[larrymcg421]

If the Celtics are able to get Rasheed and re-sign Marbury, the offseason will have been a huge PLUS. Especially considering the pretty unspectacular offseason they had last year. If they are able to add in another PF/C body behind KG, Perk, and Sheed...even better!

Assuming they're letting Baby go, then I'd rather they just re-sign Powe for that purpose and look for a backup swingman.

[Sublime 2]

Assuming they're letting Baby go, then I'd rather they just re-sign Powe for that purpose and look for a backup swingman.

Even if they re-signed Powe, there's no guarantee he's back and playing before next spring. I'm sure he won't be himself for another 6-12 months after that.

Sheed is easily the best PF/C we can hope for this offseason, and that position is by far the biggest concern going into the season.

[larrymcg421]

Even if they re-signed Powe, there's no guarantee he's back and playing before next spring. I'm sure he won't be himself for another 6-12 months after that.

Sheed is easily the best PF/C we can hope for this offseason, and that position is by far the biggest concern going into the season.

No, I meant for the 4th spot after Sheed.

[DeToxRox]

Pistons strike deal with Gordon - NBA - Yahoo! Sports (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-gordonpistons070109&prov=yhoo&type=lgns)

Ben Gordon gets 5 years, 55 mil from the Pistons.

Shoot me now.

Stuckey and Gordon = Worst defensive backcourt in the NBA.

At least Rip can leave this mess since it's obvious he'll be dealt.

[DaddyTorgo]

Pistons strike deal with Gordon - NBA - Yahoo! Sports (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-gordonpistons070109&prov=yhoo&type=lgns)

Ben Gordon gets 5 years, 55 mil from the Pistons.

Shoot me now.

Stuckey and Gordon = Worst defensive backcourt in the NBA.

At least Rip can leave this mess since it's obvious he'll be dealt.

lol - for real. who's supposed to play defense on that team?

[DeToxRox]

Oh joy, Pistons also agree to terms (according to ESPN) with another defensive juggernaut, Charlie Villanueva.

[DeToxRox]

Dola, 5 years, 35 mil for Charlie Eyebrows.

[RainMaker]

I don't get it. Stuckey, Gordon and Villanueva are horrible defenders. They put up some points but they will be giving up 120 a night.

[DeToxRox]

I don't get it. Stuckey, Gordon and Villanueva are horrible defenders. They put up some points but they will be giving up 120 a night.

Tayshaun isn't that great a defender either. This is terrible. Tay gets abused by physical SF because he is too slender and just gets pounded. Then we draft a guy in the 1st round (Daye) who's frailer then he is.

Joe Dumars is a god damn joke these days I am afraid.

Thanks for the title, I appreciate it, but 10 years from now I'll be wondering when the next one is coming.

[DeToxRox]

This also means we get to trade our best player (Rip) for a big man. I assume they'll try getting Chandler or Kaman. Whoever it is might be the one guy we get who can play D.

[RainMaker]

I mean Ben had some great moments in Chicago and I enjoyed watching him play, but I'm not sad to see him go for that kind of money. He would regularly get abused on the defensive end. I still think he's a 6th man who should be making around $7-$8 million a year.

[miami_fan]

On one hand I want to commend Joe for NOT waiting until the free agent class of 2010 and actually trying to improve the team for the upcoming season. On the other hand.......some interesting signings there. Add to that the rumors that Doug Collins is the leading candidate for the head coaching job. Hmmm.....

[MrBug708]

I guess Afflalo isn't see any daylight?

[DeToxRox]

I guess Afflalo isn't see any daylight?

He'll play a lot at this point. Someone has to go out there and play something close to defense.

[DeToxRox]

Dola, I say that because Rip is for sure gone now. He or Tayshaun anyway.

[Coffee Warlord]

Yay! No more Gordon!

[Swaggs]

Detroit is becoming UConn North w/ the two new guys plus Rip.

[Neuqua]

Yeah, I am not losing any sleep over losing BG really. I would have been content had he re-signed for $7mil or so but anything over that I felt was just overpaying.

It's time to let Rose handle the ball with the game on the line anyway, no more confusion anymore.

[BishopMVP]

Apparently Charlie Eyebrows1/3 of the ugliest front court in history with Ed Nelson and Josh Boone.

[whomario]

Dola, I say that because Rip is for sure gone now. He or Tayshaun anyway.

apparently Gordon agreed to come off the bench, acording to articles in Detroit´s papers at least.
If it was just one of the 2 i´d think it were good signings, the contracts aren´t too bad and pretty good for unrestricted FAs, but both seems to stretch it for a team concept...
And now Avery Johnson as Coach ? His head will explode before long :D (then again he even got the Mavs to a respectable level defensively ...)

EDIT : The Blazers and Raptors apparently are pushing to sign either Turkoglu or Ariza. Turkoglu apparently would be paid similar to Gordon and Ariza should get between 32 and 40 mio (over 5 years i´d guess)
I´d love both in Portland, assuming they still manage to keep Fernandez, somehow get either a quality backup or an upgrade at PG.
And of course McMillan would have to come to grips with the fact that he needs to give his players some responsibility as in the POs you need support for your stars.

[law90026]

Do you really believe Gordon would agree to that, considering he was upset about it in Chicago? It's easy to say the right things when you're in for a big payday .. it's another thing when the season starts.

[Gary Gorski]

The reports are Gordon was told that up front so if that's true then he signed the deal either knowing he's going to play super sub or assuming that they'll get rid of Rip. What doesn't make sense in that scenario though is why fire Curry (other than the obvious) if you were going to get rid of Rip?

Personally I think its a bad signing - not because Gordon isn't good - he's a very good scorer - but because the idea of super sub is great when you have a very average starter you're replacing. Manu can come in and be an all-star 6th man because over time he was replacing the likes of an old Michael Finley and Brent Barry - guys who aren't primary offensive options to start with. Rip and Stuckey certainly don't fall into that category. All I see is either Gordon not getting enough minutes to do his scoring or taking minutes and/or shots away from Rip - either way the plan sucks, much like pretty much all other plans from Dumars recently.

[Gary Gorski]

dola

And don't even get me started on CV - if he couldn't play a major role in Milwaukee then why should that change here? I don't know why we pass on opportunity after opportunity to address our real needs like a physical low post player (Millsap) but apparently we need more scoring guards and stick thin small forwards.

[whomario]

on another note the Grizzlies seem to have a trade Q-Rich for Zach Randolph in place, so they will possibly field a pretty good offensive player and a pretty good defensive Player in the frontcourt.
Too bad at the same time they also will field a terribly bad defender and a really raw offensive player.

Thabeet+Randolph = weird on many levels.

Just imagine what they´ll be thinking playing together :

Zach : Boy, that kid can´t even score from point blank and why is he running up and down so fast ? And why is he jumping around so much on defense , should i try that as well ? But i can´t jump anyway, so that sure isn´t in coach´s mind, is it ? And what is that shot blocking thing everyone is talking about ? Could i do that ?

Thabeet : Coach, why is that guy allways 5 seconds late in our half, is that a new defense we didn´t play in College ? And why is he hitting all those close shots when he is so small and is jumping even less high than me ? And hwy is he shooting every time anyway ? Is that so that i have it easier to get offensive rebounds coach ?


But Memphis isn´t going anywhere next season anyway and Randolph will be a big expiring next year, so i won´t say it´s absolutely terrible just yet ...

[DaddyTorgo]

on another note the Grizzlies seem to have a trade Q-Rich for Zach Randolph in place, so they will possibly field a pretty good offensive player and a pretty good defensive Player in the frontcourt.
Too bad at the same time they also will field a terribly bad defender and a really raw offensive player.

Thabeet+Randolph = weird on many levels.

Just imagine what they´ll be thinking playing together :

Zach : Boy, that kid can´t even score from point blank and why is he running up and down so fast ? And why is he jumping around so much on defense , should i try that as well ? But i can´t jump anyway, so that sure isn´t in coach´s mind, is it ? And what is that shot blocking thing everyone is talking about ? Could i do that ?

Thabeet : Coach, why is that guy allways 5 seconds late in our half, is that a new defense we didn´t play in College ? And why is he hitting all those close shots when he is so small and is jumping even less high than me ? And hwy is he shooting every time anyway ? Is that so that i have it easier to get offensive rebounds coach ?


But Memphis isn´t going anywhere next season anyway and Randolph will be a big expiring next year, so i won´t say it´s absolutely terrible just yet ...

:lol:

[Gary Gorski]

But Memphis isn´t going anywhere next season anyway and Randolph will be a big expiring next year, so i won´t say it´s absolutely terrible just yet ...

Oh it's terrible and Grizzlies fans should be outraged. They had a legit shot to get David Lee who a) can run the floor b) plays his ass off c) rebounds very well and d) takes high percentage shots. Instead they end up with Zach Randolph who does rebound but certainly doesn't fall into a, b or d.

Randolph's teams have never gone anywhere - look at Portland now. David Lee doesn't make them a playoff team but at least they're a young, energetic team with Conley, Mayo, Gay, Lee and Gasol with Thabeet on the bench.

What sucks for Grizzlies fans (the 12 that are left) is that Heisley wanted this done to be cheap. Randolph's got two years left on his deal and they would have had to give Lee 4-5. If you're going to operate a team like that why even have one?

[Coffee Warlord]

So Detroit basically signed a $55 million bench player? Tee hee.

[albionmoonlight]

If you're going to operate a team like that why even have one?

I've never understood this. If you want to turn your millions into more millions, then invest in actual investments.

If you want to turn your millions into being the big cheese who owns a team and wins championships, then do that.

I don't get the guy who decides to buy a team but then worries about spending too much money. What's the fun in that? It's like deciding to spend $200,000 for a sportcar, but making sure to never drive it above 55 mph because you don't want to strain the engine too much.

Either be a playa or don't. What's the fun in owning a sucky team and worrying more about the bottom line than the product on the court/field/rink?

[Oilers9911]

EDIT : The Blazers and Raptors apparently are pushing to sign either Turkoglu or Ariza. Turkoglu apparently would be paid similar to Gordon and Ariza should get between 32 and 40 mio (over 5 years i´d guess)
I´d love both in Portland, assuming they still manage to keep Fernandez, somehow get either a quality backup or an upgrade at PG.
And of course McMillan would have to come to grips with the fact that he needs to give his players some responsibility as in the POs you need support for your stars.

The Raptors can't afford Turkoglu. If they sign him they have no money left to fill out their roster. They were a very thin team last year and I don't think Colangelo will let that happen again. Word is they are looking at Klieza as well as bringing back Carlos Delfino.

[DaddyTorgo]

I've never understood this. If you want to turn your millions into more millions, then invest in actual investments.

If you want to turn your millions into being the big cheese who owns a team and wins championships, then do that.

I don't get the guy who decides to buy a team but then worries about spending too much money. What's the fun in that? It's like deciding to spend $200,000 for a sportcar, but making sure to never drive it above 55 mph because you don't want to strain the engine too much.

Either be a playa or don't. What's the fun in owning a sucky team and worrying more about the bottom line than the product on the court/field/rink?

i agree. skinflint owners suck

[MikeVic]

The Raptors can't afford Turkoglu. If they sign him they have no money left to fill out their roster. They were a very thin team last year and I don't think Colangelo will let that happen again. Word is they are looking at Klieza as well as bringing back Carlos Delfino.

They better do more than bring in Delfino and whoever this other dude is? They need a good, defensive SF imo.

[Icy]

News on Rubio from the Spanish press (not official until he confirms it).

It seems that he is giving out and he will stay one year in his current team, as the salary for being #5 is not enough to pay his buyout clause, plus he wanted to go to a bigger market team that the wolves.

His team GM said that he won't play there unless he retires his lawsuit against them, and it seems that he is going to do it soon. That way they can start to negotiate to lower the buyout clause if he plays there the incoming season.

At the end i think he has been really bad advised by his agent Fegan. They gambled too high and lost. Instead of talking bad about teams (Memphis, Minnesota, Oklahoma), refusing to workout, not being clear about if he would go to the NBA or stay in Spain, etc, he should have said how much he loved to play in any NBA team, done workouts as required and to end being drafted #2 or #3 as he was predicted, that would have allowed him to pay his buyout clause without problems.

Now he is going back home with a damaged image both in USA and Spain. To play in his current team is not going to be so fun either with all the fans and the GM looking bad at him and probably booing him at home games.

His only chance to scape from that situation is to have an incredible European championship with the Spanish national team (will be played next September) to raise everybody's eyes at him and with an NBA team making a crazy trade offer to Min that they can't refuse. He might have a good chance to show how he can play, as the starting PG Calderon has refused to play in the national team to better recover from past season injuries, so Rubio should have a lot of PT or even start.

[DaddyTorgo]

News on Rubio from the Spanish press (not official until he confirms it).

It seems that he is giving out and he will stay one year in his current team, as the salary for being #5 is not enough to pay his buyout clause, plus he wanted to go to a bigger market team that the wolves.

His team GM said that he won't play there unless he retires his lawsuit against them, and it seems that he is going to do it soon. That way they can start to negotiate to lower the buyout clause if he plays there the incoming season.

At the end i think he has been really bad advised by his agent Fegan. They gambled too high and lost. Instead of talking bad about teams (Memphis, Minnesota, Oklahoma), refusing to workout, not being clear about if he would go to the NBA or stay in Spain, etc, he should have said how much he loved to play in any NBA team, done workouts as required and to end being drafted #2 or #3 as he was predicted, that would have allowed him to pay his buyout clause without problems.

Now he is going back home with a damaged image both in USA and Spain. To play in his current team is not going to be so fun either with all the fans and the GM looking bad at him and probably booing him at home games.

His only chance to scape from that situation is to have an incredible European championship with the Spanish national team (will be played next September) to raise everybody's eyes at him and with an NBA team making a crazy trade offer to Min that they can't refuse. He might have a good chance to show how he can play, as the starting PG Calderon has refused to play in the national team to better recover from past season injuries, so Rubio should have a lot of PT or even start.

He's being a little jerk about this. "I don't wanna play for Minnesota. I only want to play for the following teams." -- I might have to put him on my "Eli Manning list."

If he hadn't been so difficult about it from the beginning there's a chance he goes higher and gets enough to pay his buyout.

But yeah, his agent bears some blame too.

[miami_fan]

Ron Artest says he is going to the Lakers.

NBA free agency: Ron Artest says he's leaving Houston Rockets for Los Angeles Lakers - ESPN (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4303679)

[stevew]

I would assume this pushes Odom to someone else? Or does it make ariza leaving a certainty?

[Chief Rum]

I would assume this pushes Odom to someone else? Or does it make ariza leaving a certainty?

The talk out of the Ariza camp has him half out the door already, and Artest and Ariza pretty much do the same thing. So this affects Ariza much more than Odom, whom I would guess is still going to end up back with the Lakers.

[MrBug708]

Am I the only one who doesnt think Shaq really wants to win one for Lebron but rather, win more then Kobe?

[Radii]

Am I the only one who doesnt think Shaq really wants to win one for Lebron but rather, win more then Kobe?


Well there's also every other Lakers homer who first assumes that every decision Shaq makes is related to what Kobe is doing in some way.

[Arles]

Nah, Shaq said he was going to win a title for "Nash and Amare" when he joined the Suns. It's his standard MO.

[Radii]

Isn't it reasonable to assume that Shaq, like many other players at this stage in their careers, is simply looking for an opportunity to win another championship for himself?

[Atocep]

Isn't it reasonable to assume that Shaq, like many other players at this stage in their careers, is simply looking for an opportunity to win another championship for himself?

There's no fun discussing that though.

[Radii]

There's no fun discussing that though.

:D

In that case, my theory is that Shaq hates Cleveland, and hates Lebron. By going to Cleveland and winning a championship there, then retiring, their horrible coach and all their marginal bit parts get long contract extensions and the team never wins again after he leaves. The city, and the franchise wallow in mediocrity and disappointment for the next 10 years.

Its a pretty diabolical plan if you ask me.

[MrBug708]

Well there's also every other Lakers homer who first assumes that every decision Shaq makes is related to what Kobe is doing in some way.

Well, Kobe wasn't the one who was rhyming on the stage Shaq and how a certain part of his body tastes like.

[sterlingice]

Man, our offseason has started off interesting and it's just the start, to be sure.

SI

[Danny]

Bynum, Gasol, Artest, Bryant and Fisher/Farmar/S Brown with Odom, off the bench looks mighty good offensively and defensively. Artest is a better player than Ariza right now. Ariza was made to look better than he was because of Gasol and Bryant. Ariza will likely be overpaid, though he is a solid player that is very good as a 4th or 5th best player on a team. Plus he is still young and could get better.

[Chief Rum]

Reports are saying Ariza and Artest pretty much worked out a trade for one another.

[sterlingice]

Yeah, Ariza went to Houston for 5/$33M and this upcoming year will use the MLE. As I said above, I think we're just getting started.

SI

[RainMaker]

I think it's a good move for both teams. Artest helps the Lakers win right now while Ariza is a nice long term piece for the Rockets. Although it is a lot of money for Ariza in my opinion. He's a nice player but I think was a little overated for making a few big plays in the playoffs.

[MikeVic]

Damn Lakers. I liked Artest. :(

[whomario]

Blazers appear to have a deal with Turkoglu, numbers vary from 50 to 58 mio over 5 years depending on who is talking.
Hmm, interesting. Normally a PG was the most talked-about area where to improve the team, but then again SF was a question mark as well and the only real upgrade over Blake (that was on the market) was Miller who isn´t that good a fit next to Roy as he can´t shoot the 3 at all. Also 4 years older than Turkoglu on a position more dependent on speed and quickness.

I think it´s a good move by the Blazers. They are obviously not as restricted by money issues as others, so that´s not a big issue, and definitely needed another guy who could make plays, especially late in games.

Maybe they still get a deal done involving Outlaw and maybe Webster, maybe Blake for a better PG.

[MikeVic]

Who are the fucking Raptors gonna get. Ariza to Houston probably, Hedo to Portland. Who's left other than overrated Marion?

[whomario]

Who are the fucking Raptors gonna get. Ariza to Houston probably, Hedo to Portland. Who's left other than overrated Marion?

Kleiza was supposed to be on their short list. Not that he´s a great improvement, just saying he was reported as a target ;)

The best left (Millsap, Lee, Odom isn´t signed either yet) are all PFs so not really obvious targets for the Raptors.

Maybe Marvin Williams ? Wonder what the Hawks would match ...

That´s about it for 2/3 players though, the rest worth MLE and maybe more are all PF/C or PG (Sessions, Robinson, MIller, Bibby)

[RainMaker]

Blazers appear to have a deal with Turkoglu, numbers vary from 50 to 58 mio over 5 years depending on who is talking.
Hmm, interesting. Normally a PG was the most talked-about area where to improve the team, but then again SF was a question mark as well and the only real upgrade over Blake (that was on the market) was Miller who isn´t that good a fit next to Roy as he can´t shoot the 3 at all. Also 4 years older than Turkoglu on a position more dependent on speed and quickness.

I think it´s a good move by the Blazers. They are obviously not as restricted by money issues as others, so that´s not a big issue, and definitely needed another guy who could make plays, especially late in games.

Maybe they still get a deal done involving Outlaw and maybe Webster, maybe Blake for a better PG.

There had been a lot of talk in Chicago that the Blazers were interested in Hinrich. I'm guessing this puts them out of the running for him.

[Mantle2600]

Apparently Toronto will get Turkey-glue

[k0ruptr]

Yep, looks like he said F U blazers, and is going to the raptors.

[k0ruptr]

dola from an AP article

A source says Turkoglu’s wife wanted badly to live in Toronto, a far more European-style city, and that’s where it appears the Turkish native is headed. The Raptors have embraced the Euro game under GM Bryan Colangelo, building a roster that includes Euro talents Jose Calderon(notes) and Andrea Bargnani(notes).

lol, she wears the pants, we get it.

[Oilers9911]

The wife always wears the pants. See Pronger, Chris and Nylander, Mikael.

[Young Drachma]

dola from an AP article



lol, she wears the pants, we get it.

I didn't think of the wife, but I did think of the more Euro-style connection. Doesn't surprise me at all. Though admittedly, Portland is up there on the euro scale.

[Oilers9911]

If true the Raptors, at this point look like this:

Calderon
Derozan (hopefully they can bring in Delfino or AP here)
Turkoglu
Bosh
Bargnagni

They certainly are not very deep though.

[MikeVic]

If true the Raptors, at this point look like this:

Calderon
Derozan (hopefully they can bring in Delfino or AP here)
Turkoglu
Bosh
Bargnagni

They certainly are not very deep though.

Still not a defensive team though, so I don't even know if this is a playoff team in the crappy East.

[Oilers9911]

We'll see what else Colangelo can pull off. A sign and trade with Marion would be nice but i'm not betting on it. Evans will help on defense but yeah, they are still not a defensive juggernaut. They might contend for 7 or 8 in the East.

[miami_fan]

Are Raptors fans really expecting Colangelo to put together a defensive team? I would think that adequate defensive is all Colangelo is looking for.

[MikeVic]

Are Raptors fans really expecting Colangelo to put together a defensive team? I would think that adequate defensive is all Colangelo is looking for.

Not a team known for defense, but at least enough defense to combine with the offense to look like a serious threat. The offense isn't near what the Suns were, so I'm expecting at least an attempt for defense to compensate for that.

[Oilers9911]

Are Raptors fans really expecting Colangelo to put together a defensive team? I would think that adequate defensive is all Colangelo is looking for.

Nobody said we were expecting a defensive team. But something better than swiss cheese would be nice.

[larrymcg421]

Looks like Sheed is signing with the Celtics...

Reports: Wallace agrees to deal with Celtics - NBA - Yahoo! Sports (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AhDtoEUTbV8gZEd8FmqFBVk5nYcB?slug=ap-celtics-wallace&prov=ap&type=lgns)

[RainMaker]

I don't think what Colangelo is doing is wrong up there. Toronto is not a great destination for the typical U.S. born superstar. But if you can make it a nice destination for Europeans, you can start to compete in a way with the major markets. Your team is also building a system that is unconventional and provides tough matchups (sort of like this year's Magic).

I think the Hedo signing was a mistake as he's 30 years old with close to 800 NBA games under his belt. That's probably past his prime and I'm going to guess maybe 2 years of him being a good player. That leaves 3 final years of him making almost $12 million a season. For a team on the verge of a title that needs one more piece, I can justify it. But it makes no sense for the Raptors. They maybe turn themselves into a 4 or 5 seed in the East at best which isn't anything special. I think the team should have unloaded Bosh this summer and stocked up on young talent and draft picks.

[RainMaker]

From Bill Simmons Twitter:

Statement from Pistons to fans: "Look, any time you can tank a season for the chance to spend $95 mill on 2 non-AllStars, you gotta do it."

[Karlifornia]

Derozan is not ready to contribute on the NBA level. He was barely able to contribute consistently by the end of his season at USC. He has the tools, provided he works hard, but he should absolutely not be starting for a team that has any hopes of contending.

[jbergey22]

Would any of you guys be interested in this? Its a mock GM game or there is the option to be an agent in which you can have up to 30 clients as well. Here is a league that is starting up soon. Looks very interesting!

Mock GM Offseason & Real-Time Fantasy Basketball - PASPN.net (http://paspn.net/default.asp?p=90)

League Name: GDS Mock GM
password: ryland

[JonInMiddleGA]

http://www.govolsxtra.com/news/2009/jul/06/spurs-sign-ex-vol-haislip/?partner=RSS

Former Vol Marcus Haislip, 28, is expected to sign with the San Antonio Spurs, according to a release on the Spurs’ Web site Monday.

The league has a moratorium on offseason roster moves that will be lifted Wednesday.

Haislip, at 6-foot-10, has agreed in principle on a deal with the Spurs.

Originally drafted in the first round by Milwaukee in 2002, Haislip has been playing the past two seasons with Spanish powerhouse Unicaja Malaga, where he averaged 16.7 points per game.

The Spurs had been courting Detroit’s Rasheed Wallace, who has committed to sign with Boston.

The terms of the Spurs’ offer to Haislip were not immediately available, though it could start at the veteran’s minimum.

Haislip will join Golden State's C.J. Watson as the only former Vols in the NBA.

[whomario]

good for him. Did good here in Europe.
Can score and has a good jump shot out to the Euro 3-Line (save for this seasons Euroleague where he just didn´t find a shooting touch most nights for whatever reason), can defend the Pick & Roll as well as run it (rolling as well as, well, poping) and is athletic. Lacks timing for his shot blocking and is a so-so rebounder.

Immediately increases the Spurs athletic ability in the Front Court by a million percent :p Kurt Thomas and Oberto both did not have a single dunk last season btw. Not one. Their 2 Centers. In 2100 minutes.

Actually a funny side note : The Spurs were dead last in Dunks 4 seasons running, last year they had 73 Dunks as a team which is propably the lowest ever, the 2nd last team (Pacers) had 167 and 32 individual players had more than 73 by themselves.
Fun little overview on Dunks last year : 2008-09 NBA Slam Dunk Stats - Roto Evil = Fantasy Hoops & More (http://www.rotoevil.com/nba/2008-2009-slam-dunk-stats)

Now they only have to get a hold on Splitter somehow and the have themselves a very deep team all of a sudden.

[RainMaker]

Source: LeBron James tells recruit he'll stay with Cleveland Cavaliers - ESPN (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4310284)

Intersting development there. Lebron could be full of shit, but it would be a low class move to recruit someone by lying about your intended future. Also, the fact Lebron won't commit long term yet to the team probably hurts their chances in luring some free agents in. If Lebron truly has his heart in Cleveland and wants to stay, he should have made it clear by now.

[DeToxRox]

If Bron wanted to stay in Cleveland he'd already be signed to an extension. If this gets to the season and he isn't signed long term then there is no way he is coming back.

[DeToxRox]

Dola, of course telling Ariza he's staying is a ploy to get him in to town, that's all. Why would a guy sign in Cleveland if they think Bron is leaving? That team is gonna be the worst in the NBA in 2011 without him.

[TroyF]

If Bron wanted to stay in Cleveland he'd already be signed to an extension. If this gets to the season and he isn't signed long term then there is no way he is coming back.


Things can always change, but I agree with this. I always go back to this quote by Lebron:

“If you guys want to go to sleep right now and not wake up until July 1, 2010, then go ahead because it’s going to be a big day,”

He's talking after a Cavs win over the Knicks. People can argue the point, but I think the guy was talking to Knicks fans, not his hometown Cleveland fans. (who he could have simply told that he would stay a long time ago)

There is no reason for James to hold off. He has an owner willing to go deep into the luxury tax. He has a city who loves him. If he wants to stay there, he could sign his extension. He's not going to do it because I think he isn't going to be a Cav after next year.

I also find it very hard to believe he told Ariza his plans. Just my opinion, I could be wrong.

[MikeVic]

Things can always change, but I agree with this. I always go back to this quote by Lebron:

“If you guys want to go to sleep right now and not wake up until July 1, 2010, then go ahead because it’s going to be a big day,”

He's talking after a Cavs win over the Knicks. People can argue the point, but I think the guy was talking to Knicks fans, not his hometown Cleveland fans. (who he could have simply told that he would stay a long time ago)

There is no reason for James to hold off. He has an owner willing to go deep into the luxury tax. He has a city who loves him. If he wants to stay there, he could sign his extension. He's not going to do it because I think he isn't going to be a Cav after next year.

I also find it very hard to believe he told Ariza his plans. Just my opinion, I could be wrong.

Yeah I know, telling Ariza? "Who is this?" to quote Pedro Martinez. ;)

[albionmoonlight]

Playing devil's advocate: LeBron could be holding off on a decision because he knows that the suspense will keep people talking about him and because when he does decide to stay with Cleveland, he could put it in the best possible light.

Personally, I think that he is leaving for the reasons given by others in this thread. But I can see a world where he knows he is staying and would still not sign the extension.

Here's a question. Let's say that you are Cleveland, and LeBron says to you that he's going to [names three teams], but that he will let you do a sign-and-trade. Do you do it? On the one hand, better to get something instead of nothing. On the other hand, I don't think that I could be the GM who traded LeBron away, no matter the reason.

(Now, I don't think that this would happen b/c LeBron would not want to deplete his new team before he got there, but it is a mildly interesting thought experiment).

[Fidatelo]

Isn't is possible that he intends to stay but is not signing the extension in hopes that the cap will rise by 2010 and he'll be able to get a more lucrative contract?

[RainMaker]

Isn't is possible that he intends to stay but is not signing the extension in hopes that the cap will rise by 2010 and he'll be able to get a more lucrative contract?
He could come out and say he intends to stay in Cleveland and put the onus on them to give him the money.

[Gary Gorski]

Here's a question. Let's say that you are Cleveland, and LeBron says to you that he's going to [names three teams], but that he will let you do a sign-and-trade. Do you do it? On the one hand, better to get something instead of nothing. On the other hand, I don't think that I could be the GM who traded LeBron away, no matter the reason.



You would rather be known as the GM that botched building a team around one of the greatest players in history when you had seven years to do it and then watched him walk away for nothing?

If he comes to me and says he's not signing and either I trade him to one of three teams I do it - with a preference to trading him outside of the conference - as long as I'm getting enough picks and young players to quickly begin building a team again and the team must have adequate salary room so I don't have to take back junk contracts or must have expiring contracts on any players I take but don't want. Then I immediately go to the media and tell them Lebron orchastrated the entire deal and that I am devastated he decided to walk away from a city and organization that has embraced him like we have but that we have some pieces to build around and we'll build it back up.

Then I would expect to be fired after the team goes 10-72 the following season.

[TroyF]

Isn't is possible that he intends to stay but is not signing the extension in hopes that the cap will rise by 2010 and he'll be able to get a more lucrative contract?

Sure, it's possible. But why make the quote I put above? I just don't see him staying there.

[Gary Gorski]

He could come out and say he intends to stay in Cleveland and put the onus on them to give him the money.

If he says he'll sign an extension the Cavs will have paperwork in front of him within 30 seconds and a Brinks truck waiting for him outside the door.

[TroyF]

You would rather be known as the GM that botched building a team around one of the greatest players in history when you had seven years to do it and then watched him walk away for nothing?

If he comes to me and says he's not signing and either I trade him to one of three teams I do it - with a preference to trading him outside of the conference - as long as I'm getting enough picks and young players to quickly begin building a team again and the team must have adequate salary room so I don't have to take back junk contracts or must have expiring contracts on any players I take but don't want. Then I immediately go to the media and tell them Lebron orchastrated the entire deal and that I am devastated he decided to walk away from a city and organization that has embraced him like we have but that we have some pieces to build around and we'll build it back up.

Then I would expect to be fired after the team goes 10-72 the following season.

Agreed on every point outside of the 10-72. Cleveland may suck, but if you got a decent package of picks and a young player or two for him, Cleveland wouldn't be 10-72 bad.

Maybe change it to "I'd expect to be fired after we went 30-52.

If he tells you he isn't staying, you make the trade.

Here is the thing though. . . Bron isn't going to tell Cleveland that. He's going to want to go to a team with cap space and some talent. He'll be unrestricted. He isn't going to want his new team to give up assets that could make them better to get him.

I hope I'm proven wrong. I'd love Bron to stay in Cleveland and give those fans a championship they've been dreaming about. If it doesn't happen this year, I don't think it's going to happen with Bron though.

[MikeVic]

Agreed on every point outside of the 10-72. Cleveland may suck, but if you got a decent package of picks and a young player or two for him, Cleveland wouldn't be 10-72 bad.

Maybe change it to "I'd expect to be fired after we went 30-52.

If he tells you he isn't staying, you make the trade.

Here is the thing though. . . Bron isn't going to tell Cleveland that. He's going to want to go to a team with cap space and some talent. He'll be unrestricted. He isn't going to want his new team to give up assets that could make them better to get him.

I hope I'm proven wrong. I'd love Bron to stay in Cleveland and give those fans a championship they've been dreaming about. If it doesn't happen this year, I don't think it's going to happen with Bron though.

Yeah, isn't that why Kobe didn't go to the Bulls a couple years ago? He didn't like that they were giving up so much to get him, making the team a lot worse.

[RainMaker]

I still wouldn't make the trade if he said he was leaving. You still have a great shot at a title next year. I'd rather win one title and go 10-72 for the next 5 years then trade Lebron and rebuild into a mediocre playoff team for 10 years.

[DaddyTorgo]

You would rather be known as the GM that botched building a team around one of the greatest players in history when you had seven years to do it and then watched him walk away for nothing?

If he comes to me and says he's not signing and either I trade him to one of three teams I do it - with a preference to trading him outside of the conference - as long as I'm getting enough picks and young players to quickly begin building a team again and the team must have adequate salary room so I don't have to take back junk contracts or must have expiring contracts on any players I take but don't want. Then I immediately go to the media and tell them Lebron orchastrated the entire deal and that I am devastated he decided to walk away from a city and organization that has embraced him like we have but that we have some pieces to build around and we'll build it back up.

Then I would expect to be fired after the team goes 10-72 the following season.

yeah. that's the way

[Samdari]

If he tells you he isn't staying, you make the trade.


No reason not to wait until the deadline, to maximize ticket sales.

To get LeBron, most teams would even take Shaq's 20 million contract. And gee, look, New York has a ton of contracts expiring in July 2010.

[molson]

The though of trading LeBron is insane. You make trades to get in the position the Cavs are in now.

[DeToxRox]

So the Pistons will name George Kuester their new Head Coach after Dumars couldn't lure Avery Johnson to Detroit.

Now I am indifferent to Avery but this quote Joe gave today regarding the Avery situation is absurd:

"Where we are right now as a team is kind of like where we were at the start of the Rick Carlisle era," Dumars said. "And a $4 to $5 million (a year) coach is not what we need right now. We didn't have one of those until we were close to contending for a championship when we got Larry (Brown)."

Translation: We are going to suck for a while (Even though we spent 90 million dollars on two guys this off season) so why bother paying for a good coach. We'll just wait till things look brighter so we can fire this guy and upgrade later.

I am so sick of Dumars. The Dumars from 03 - 05 was very good. The Dumars since is just terrible.

[TroyF]

***Here's a question. Let's say that you are Cleveland, and LeBron says to you that he's going to [names three teams], but that he will let you do a sign-and-trade. Do you do it? On the one hand, better to get something instead of nothing. On the other hand, I don't think that I could be the GM who traded LeBron away, no matter the reason.***

Lebron is already signed to a contract for next year. You can't do a sign and trade with him yet. You do S&T's with guys who are out of contract. Knowing this, I took that to mean you wait until next summer.

Right NOW? No way do you trade Lebron James now. No way, no how. If disaster strikes the team by the trade deadline (say Shaq and Moe Williams go down for the season and Cleveland is in distress), then you think about it.

All of this is irrelevant.

1) James isn't going to do that this year, because his PR people would never let it happen.

2) I'd be money that James is excited about Shaq being with him this year and he wants to win one for Cleveland before he leaves.

3) Cleveland needs to do everythingit can to keep Lebron so they look good for their fans, if for no other reason. They won't deal him unless they have no other options.

[TroyF]

So the Pistons will name George Kuester their new Head Coach after Dumars couldn't lure Avery Johnson to Detroit.

Now I am indifferent to Avery but this quote Joe gave today regarding the Avery situation is absurd:

"Where we are right now as a team is kind of like where we were at the start of the Rick Carlisle era," Dumars said. "And a $4 to $5 million (a year) coach is not what we need right now. We didn't have one of those until we were close to contending for a championship when we got Larry (Brown)."

Translation: We are going to suck for a while (Even though we spent 90 million dollars on two guys this off season) so why bother paying for a good coach. We'll just wait till things look brighter so we can fire this guy and upgrade later.

I am so sick of Dumars. The Dumars from 03 - 05 was very good. The Dumars since is just terrible.


Hey, DO NOT insult Joe Dumars. OK. Do not do it.

He single handedly helped build a western conference finals team. If he takes Melo, Denver takes Darko. (who then joins Skita as stiffs on the end of the Denver bench) If he doesn't take AI off of our hands, we don't get Billups and we have another first round playoff exit.

I'll hold off in my assessment of his moves this year until I see what happens with Rip. He trades him for a solid player (some reports are Boozer), he has a far better team than last year.

[albionmoonlight]

FWIW, I meant sign-and-trading LeBron in 2010 after his contract is up.

As noted above, I think that the question is moot because, if LeBron wants to leave, he does not want to deplete his destination team and whatever slight extra money he could get from a sign-and-trade would basically be a rounding error compared to his endorsement deals.

Another interesting (and even less relevant) question is what kind of contract he would get if the NBA had a salary cap but no max contracts.

[Gary Gorski]

So the Pistons will name George Kuester their new Head Coach after Dumars couldn't lure Avery Johnson to Detroit.

Now I am indifferent to Avery but this quote Joe gave today regarding the Avery situation is absurd:

"Where we are right now as a team is kind of like where we were at the start of the Rick Carlisle era," Dumars said. "And a $4 to $5 million (a year) coach is not what we need right now. We didn't have one of those until we were close to contending for a championship when we got Larry (Brown)."

Translation: We are going to suck for a while (Even though we spent 90 million dollars on two guys this off season) so why bother paying for a good coach. We'll just wait till things look brighter so we can fire this guy and upgrade later.

I am so sick of Dumars. The Dumars from 03 - 05 was very good. The Dumars since is just terrible.

Agreed - why fire one guy with no head coaching experience just to turn it over to another with no head coaching experience? The revolving door of coaches here has been absurd. Drafting has been poor. Trades...I still don't have a problem with Billups for Iverson if a) you let AI be AI and try to score 25 a night and b) you then take the cap room you got from making that awful trade and use it on something to build the future of the franchise with.

Instead we try to turn Iverson into a "team player" and the botching of the minutes leads to Rip being pissed, AI being pissed and being horribly ineffective but then to top it off we take what was supposed to be the real gem in that deal, the cap room, and turn it into a shoot first SG (when we saw how that already played out last year with our disgruntled all-star SG) and into a guy who did so little in his first few seasons in the league that even Milwaukee didn't care about him anymore. Nice work Joe, nice work. I think the free pass is up as a genius GM for drafting Tayshaun late in the draft and for Sheed helping us win a championship for a few months without imploding the team (at that point anyway).

[stevew]

Isn't is possible that he intends to stay but is not signing the extension in hopes that the cap will rise by 2010 and he'll be able to get a more lucrative contract?

It's possible but the cap isn't going to outpace what it was originally going to be in 2010. Looking at it from 06 anyways.

[stevew]

There's virtually no value in sign/trade LeBron in the 2010 summer. You would be lucky to get a serviceable player or two, plus maybe a couple picks.

Or a trade exception and a draft pick.

Basically there's almost no leverage in the situation. He can walk to another team with cap space(and you'd have to call them and beg for a 2nd rounder in order to get a trade exception, because the trade exception would somewhat benefit the cavs). He can try to go to a team with not enough cap space, and then you have to make the call whether or not it's worth helping him out and looking bad in front of your fans.

He's virtually irreplaceable to trade mid season, and there's almost no way you'd get the other team's previous best young player in return for him.

[Matthean]

Outside of the moves that earned him Executive of the Year, Dumars has done next to nothing while missing on Darko and getting rid of coaches. His winning the award seems more like lightning in a bottle as every year passes.
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[stevew]

the Lux tax came in at 69.92m, which is about 1.5m less than anticipated.

[stevew]

dola-
They are projecting a cap of 50.4-53.6M in 2010, which is a significant drop from this year.

I dunno why LeBron is going to want to run to NY when he's going to be at 30% of their cap and they'll only have 35-37m to get 14 other players. But that's just me. It'd have to be a worse environment for winning than Cleveland at that point.

I mean, if they go out and land LeBron and Bosh, sure they'll be good. But then they'll have 20m for 13 other players, we're talking min salary for rotation players at that point.

Next summer, if the cap is in that low of a range....

LeBron doesn't opt out, and signs 5 year extension next summer-result- he's signed for a total of 6yrs/129M
LeBron opts out, signs 5 year FA contract elsewhere next summer-result- signed for 5 years/$87.7M-93M

[Samdari]

There's virtually no value in sign/trade LeBron in the 2010 summer. You would be lucky to get a serviceable player or two, plus maybe a couple picks.

So, is that more or less than letting him walk for nothing?

[whomario]

btw, summer league is under way, for now the small one down in Orlando :
MAGIC: 2009 Orlando Pro Summer League (http://www.nba.com/magic/2009_Orlando_Pro_Summer_League.html)

there´s a live stream including hilariously sarcastic commentary by a couple of pretty cool Magic-associated media guys (do some internet show for them).
Not everyone´s type of commentary, but it´s summer league for christ´s sake which really should be serious only for the guys involved.

Anyhow : Ryan Anderson can play. ? I would not at all be surprised to see him play 25-30 minutes a game and partly fill the void Turkoglu leaves with 12 and 7. Can shoot, can put the ball on the floor and is a better rebounder than any Magic not named Howard (assuming the Polish Hammer really is let go to the Mavs)

[gstelmack]

LeBron doesn't opt out, and signs 5 year extension next summer-result- he's signed for a total of 6yrs/129M
LeBron opts out, signs 5 year FA contract elsewhere next summer-result- signed for 5 years/$87.7M-93M

LeBron is supposed to be moving for endorsement money, not NBA salary.

[TroyF]

Agreed - why fire one guy with no head coaching experience just to turn it over to another with no head coaching experience? The revolving door of coaches here has been absurd. Drafting has been poor. Trades...I still don't have a problem with Billups for Iverson if a) you let AI be AI and try to score 25 a night and b) you then take the cap room you got from making that awful trade and use it on something to build the future of the franchise with.

Instead we try to turn Iverson into a "team player" and the botching of the minutes leads to Rip being pissed, AI being pissed and being horribly ineffective but then to top it off we take what was supposed to be the real gem in that deal, the cap room, and turn it into a shoot first SG (when we saw how that already played out last year with our disgruntled all-star SG) and into a guy who did so little in his first few seasons in the league that even Milwaukee didn't care about him anymore. Nice work Joe, nice work. I think the free pass is up as a genius GM for drafting Tayshaun late in the draft and for Sheed helping us win a championship for a few months without imploding the team (at that point anyway).


Gary,

I still don't think you realize how bad of a player AI is now. The reason the Nuggets (and then Pistons) tried so hard to make him a team player is that he'd lost not one, but two steps over the offseason of 07/08 to 08/09. I know people inside the Denver organization. They were terrified by what they saw in training camp. AI was having difficulty getting around guys like Mateen Cleaves in training camp, yet AI still refused to go into the team concept. His selfishness was dividing the team. Trading for AI was a mistake from the beginning IMHO.

The Nuggets resigned Birdman today. 3.7 million the first year of a five year backloaded/incentive based deal. Probably overpaid a tad, but he's a huge fan favorite and puts fans in the seats.

The Nuggets want to use the rest of their MLE on Frye. (they didn't hold bird rights on the birdman) They have two trade exceptions to use as well. One valued at close to 9 million (from the Camby trade) and one for a little over 3 million (from the Atkins trade) The rumor in Denver is if the Nugets can get a rotation player capable of getting the Nuggets closer to the top, they'll use it and go into the tax. Not sure if I buy that or not.

Loved the Lawson pick, but I think they need one more guy to just hold onto their division crown.

[TroyF]

dola-
They are projecting a cap of 50.4-53.6M in 2010, which is a significant drop from this year.

I dunno why LeBron is going to want to run to NY when he's going to be at 30% of their cap and they'll only have 35-37m to get 14 other players. But that's just me. It'd have to be a worse environment for winning than Cleveland at that point.

I mean, if they go out and land LeBron and Bosh, sure they'll be good. But then they'll have 20m for 13 other players, we're talking min salary for rotation players at that point.

Next summer, if the cap is in that low of a range....

LeBron doesn't opt out, and signs 5 year extension next summer-result- he's signed for a total of 6yrs/129M
LeBron opts out, signs 5 year FA contract elsewhere next summer-result- signed for 5 years/$87.7M-93M

As has been said, he's moving for marketing reasons.

The other side of this is that LeBron knows this right now. He knows what the figures are. If he wanted to stay in Cleveland, why not sign the extension right now? Because he knows he doesn't want to stay and doesn't care about the NBA salary. Period.

[stevew]

Two things Troy.

1. He's loyal to those that are close to him. His HS friends. His hometown.
Now maybe that's a facade but it is basically the only thing I have left to make me believe he would stay.

2. He is an off the charts drama queen. No way he signs the extension now and gives up the chance to be the center of attention for the next 12 months. No way. He gets off on the attention.

I personally think much of a marketing gain would be offset by the mercenary backlash.

[TroyF]

Two things Troy.

1. He's loyal to those that are close to him. His HS friends. His hometown.
Now maybe that's a facade but it is basically the only thing I have left to make me believe he would stay.

2. He is an off the charts drama queen. No way he signs the extension now and gives up the chance to be the center of attention for the next 12 months. No way. He gets off on the attention.

I personally think much of a marketing gain would be offset by the mercenary backlash.


Did Shaq get a backlash when he went to LA?

and as far as him being loyal to his hometown, I don't see it. Look at Lebron's favorite teams. We have the Cowboys and Yankees. He's the front runner we all hate to be around.

I will agree with you on the drama queen. I love the fact he can't handle the fact a college kid dunked on him. It's horrible to see such a great player get his vagina bruised so easily.

[Neon_Chaos]

LeBron is turning out to be such a diva.
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[stevew]

Did Shaq get a backlash when he went to LA?



Yeah, true. I knew you were going to say Shaq. But I think going to the Lakers is a bit more prestigious than going to the Shitty Knicks. Maybe that's me. The Lakers did suck before Shaq got there, i think. But I don't think they were an embarassment to the league to the proportion that the Knicks have been over the last 5-8 years.

[larnott]

Yeah, true. I knew you were going to say Shaq. But I think going to the Lakers is a bit more prestigious than going to the Shitty Knicks. Maybe that's me. The Lakers did suck before Shaq got there, i think. But I don't think they were an embarassment to the league to the proportion that the Knicks have been over the last 5-8 years.

The Lakers won 53 ('96) and 48 ('95) games the two seasons prior to Shaq's arrival. In Shaq's first year in LA, they won 56.

[Big Fo]

LeBron is turning out to be such a diva.
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Yeah this dunking incident plus his post playoff exit classlessness, plus various other things I've read about the guy, I'm just not a fan.

Iverson signs for Memphis, 1 yr/$5m (edit- I might have posted this too soon, ESPN says the Heat and another team are still after AI)

A complicated four-team deal sees Dallas land Sean Marion and Toronto finalize the Turkoglu signing while preserving their mid-level exception.

The deal, according to sources, calls for the Mavericks to acquire Marion and Kris Humphries from Toronto and Greg Buckner from Memphis, with Marion to receive a five-year contract worth an estimated $39 million. Buckner has had two previous stints with the Mavericks but is likely to be released, sources said.

The Grizzlies will land Jerry Stackhouse from Dallas, Quincy Douby from Toronto and a substantial cash payment to buy out Stackhouse's contract. Only $2 million of Stackhouse's $7.25 million salary next season is guaranteed, as long as he is waived by Aug. 10.

The Raptors will receive Devean George and Antoine Wright from the Mavericks, while also preserving their $5.9 million mid-level exception for the coming season by turning their acquisition of Turkoglu -- who is getting a five-year deal worth an estimated $53 million -- into a sign-and-trade as opposed to an outright signing. Assembling the trade this way could also enable Toronto to re-sign Carlos Delfino, after it appeared that the Raptors would have to renounce Delfino to help make room for the Turkoglu signing.

The Magic, meanwhile, were motivated to join in the trade because their participation, as opposed to merely letting Turkoglu walk, will create a valuable trade exception they can use in future deals worth around $7 million.

[MikeVic]

I thought Humphries was alright, but overall I think this is good for the Raptors. They can still go after someone (like Delfino). NBA Championships here we come! :p

[Logan]

So according to Cleveland management, two critical pieces to getting LeBron to stay were "use 1st rounder to draft a guy who is 5 years away" and "give Varejao $50 million."

[JeeberD]

Rockets get an injury exception for Yao and use that to sign Ariza, saving their MLE for someone else. Who else is still out there that's worth it, though?

[Gary Gorski]

Gary,

I still don't think you realize how bad of a player AI is now. The reason the Nuggets (and then Pistons) tried so hard to make him a team player is that he'd lost not one, but two steps over the offseason of 07/08 to 08/09. I know people inside the Denver organization. They were terrified by what they saw in training camp. AI was having difficulty getting around guys like Mateen Cleaves in training camp, yet AI still refused to go into the team concept. His selfishness was dividing the team. Trading for AI was a mistake from the beginning IMHO.

I will take your word for it - although I did see a stretch in the season with Rip hurt where Iverson played well and lead us to some Ws. I just think that he's the kind of guy who could elevate his game, maybe just for one more year, just to prove that he's not washed up but he's got to be in a situation where he does not need to be a team player and he's basically said as much.

As for the trade being a mistake - I'll certainly say it was now. We were not going to win anything with that team - Iverson could have at least been entertaining though and kept the butts in the seats and we were going to have great financial flexibility without Billups' contract and Sheed and it was time to rebuild. So we draft a skinnier Tayshaun Prince and sign two guys that their own teams didn't even try to keep to huge contracts. So now we still have three shooting guards (I haven't seen anything out of Stuckey yet to make me call him a point), two skinny small forwards, Villanueva and the 312th coach (or so) under Joe Dumars reign. Let's just bring back the teal jerseys and we'll be right back where we started.

[whomario]

Rockets get an injury exception for Yao and use that to sign Ariza, saving their MLE for someone else. Who else is still out there that's worth it, though?

propably no one, but maybe if they split it for 2 players. Plus Von Wafer isn´t eligible for Bird Rights as far as i know, so they need part of the MLE to offer him more than the minimum.
Maybe Linas Kleiza for a big part of it ? The guy is good offensively.
Maybe Matt Barnes ?

I have a secret hope for Marvin Williams (Ariza can guard 2s, no problem here) with the Hawks spending all that money on Bibby and Pachulia, maybe they wouldn´t match a full MLE offer for some weird monetary reasons ?

[stevew]

The Lakers won 53 ('96) and 48 ('95) games the two seasons prior to Shaq's arrival. In Shaq's first year in LA, they won 56.

yeah, i was thinking 92/93, and 93/94

[whomario]

So according to Cleveland management, two critical pieces to getting LeBron to stay were "use 1st rounder to draft a guy who is 5 years away" and "give Varejao $50 million."

IMO Varejao is not that overpriced. 50 for 6 is coming out at about 8 mio a year. Sure too much, but would you get a replacement for less ? He´s propably gonna be a starter for a long time and is a good defensive players. If he improves a bit offensively (actually shows promise with his National team, also in stretches for Cleveland) he could be a defensive minded player that gives you like 13/9. That for 8 mio sounds about OK for me.

They also signed Anthony Parker for 2 years and 6 mio. Had a subpar year and isn´t getting younger (playing years in Europe is less mileage though with fewer games), but he´s definitely a nice upgrade over anything the Cavs had at the 2/3 off the bench last season.

[stevew]

Andy basically got a notch above the MLE for 6 years, before incentives.

I guess I can live with it. I like the Parker signing, and they still have a few moves they can possibly make as well. We can go up by like 10m in salary to get to the 90m range.

[Galaril]

Looks like Sheed is signing with the Celtics...

Reports: Wallace agrees to deal with Celtics - NBA - Yahoo! Sports (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AhDtoEUTbV8gZEd8FmqFBVk5nYcB?slug=ap-celtics-wallace&prov=ap&type=lgns)

lARRY,

I came here to see what folks thought of the Celts signing him and am a little surprised there isn't any posts about it. That partly leads me to more than ever believe the Celts are once again the team to beat in the East with a healthy Garnett and resigning Big Baby Davis.And on a related note what the fuck are the Magic doing? Are they dumping payroll to prepare for free agency in 2010? I took a look at there roster they have traded away Lee, Gortat, Turkgulu, and Alston along with Jhnson/Reddick having expiring contracts makes me scratch my head. The Cavs are better with Shaq but how much better?

[Sublime 2]

lARRY,

I came here to see what folks thought of the Celts signing him and am a little surprised there isn't any posts about it. That partly leads me to more than ever believe the Celts are once again the team to beat in the East with a healthy Garnett and resigning Big Baby Davis.And on a related note what the fuck are the Magic doing? Are they dumping payroll to prepare for free agency in 2010? I took a look at there roster they have traded away Lee, Gortat, Turkgulu, and Alston along with Jhnson/Reddick having expiring contracts makes me scratch my head. The Cavs are better with Shaq but how much better?

These were my thoughts on the idea from a few pages back:

"If they get him for the MLE for two years, then I'm 100% behind it. That interior D would be a nightmare for opposing teams, and his ability to stretch the floor continues to open up the lane for Rondo/Allen/Pierce/TA etc. If we only have one motivated year of Sheed, it's well worth it!"

I'm still very behind it! I'm hoping for Hill at the LLE, but I just don't see it. That would really make our bench top notch, to go with a healthy KG would really put the C's back as top 3 team in the league.

[whomario]

regarding the Magic :

They had a logjam at the 2 and 3, with more players than nescessary. Plus don´t sleep on Ryan Anderson whi is a solid rotation player they added that is more of a real PF than anyone they had last year.
And isn´t there a chance that Battie will be bought out by the Nets and return ?

Then i see Carter as a better player than Turkoglu.

Plus nelson is back, which kind of puts that situation back to where it was before that trade.

With a signing or 2 they will be in the mix.

[RainMaker]

There's some growing buzz about Boozer going to Chicago.

NBA free agents: Sources: Deal to send Carlos Boozer to the Chicago Bulls in works - ESPN (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4317515)

I think the trade makes sense for just about everyone (although all the players aren't mentioned). The Blazers get a much needed PG who can hit some outside shots and play defense. The Jazz are able to get something for Boozer before he bolts next year, as well as free up some money for Milsap.

I like it as a Bulls fan because it's only one year of Boozer. It'll be his contract year too and they aren't giving up too much for him. Hinrich's contract isn't that great and I think they've just lost their patience with Tyrus Thomas (who is really exciting but needs some better coaching). They are still in the game in 2010 for whatever free agents become available. If nothing looks promising and Boozer works out well, they leave themselves in prime position to lock him up for more than anyone else can.

It's still unrealistic to put them as contenders in the East with the move, but I do think they become formidible. It will come down to how much Rose develops in his 2nd year and without Ben Gordon hogging it from him. But a starting 5 of Rose, Salmons, Deng, Boozer, and Noah isn't too bad.

[Gary Gorski]

"If they get him for the MLE for two years, then I'm 100% behind it. That interior D would be a nightmare for opposing teams, and his ability to stretch the floor continues to open up the lane for Rondo/Allen/Pierce/TA etc. If we only have one motivated year of Sheed, it's well worth it!"

I'm still very behind it! I'm hoping for Hill at the LLE, but I just don't see it. That would really make our bench top notch, to go with a healthy KG would really put the C's back as top 3 team in the league.

If you're willing to accept the C's as a top team for one more season you're going to be happy. If you expect them to be anything but a major rebuild job by the time his 3 year deal is up then you're going to wish he didn't sign. If you would like to see the "after" please note Portland is just now becoming a relevant team again and take a look at the team that has been the dominant East team in the 2000s. That is what you have to look forward to. :popcorn:

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

I'm pretty sure most Celtic fans realize the window is short and the fall will be steep. All of our best players are old as shit save Rondo.

[Coffee Warlord]

I like it as a Bulls fan because it's only one year of Boozer. It'll be his contract year too and they aren't giving up too much for him. Hinrich's contract isn't that great and I think they've just lost their patience with Tyrus Thomas (who is really exciting but needs some better coaching). They are still in the game in 2010 for whatever free agents become available. If nothing looks promising and Boozer works out well, they leave themselves in prime position to lock him up for more than anyone else can.

It's still unrealistic to put them as contenders in the East with the move, but I do think they become formidible. It will come down to how much Rose develops in his 2nd year and without Ben Gordon hogging it from him. But a starting 5 of Rose, Salmons, Deng, Boozer, and Noah isn't too bad.

Tyrus, okay. Hinrich...no way. Who else is going to handle the ball? Deng is not a guard, Salmons isn't all that great of ball handler. Can't have Rose playing the entire game, and if they move Hinrich, you have precisely one point guard.

[DeToxRox]

Tyrus, okay. Hinrich...no way. Who else is going to handle the ball? Deng is not a guard, Salmons isn't all that great of ball handler. Can't have Rose playing the entire game, and if they move Hinrich, you have precisely one point guard.

Precisely one more then the Pistons.

[Coffee Warlord]

Precisely one more then the Pistons.

Modeling the Pistons offseason is probably not the smartest course of action. :)

[RainMaker]

Tyrus, okay. Hinrich...no way. Who else is going to handle the ball? Deng is not a guard, Salmons isn't all that great of ball handler. Can't have Rose playing the entire game, and if they move Hinrich, you have precisely one point guard.

Hinrich's contract is bad. They'll probably get someone like Blake back in the deal as a backup. I wouldn't mind having Lindsey Hunter back either.

[Coffee Warlord]

Hinrich's contract is bad. They'll probably get someone like Blake back in the deal as a backup. I wouldn't mind having Lindsey Hunter back either.

Hinrich's contract actually goes down every year. It's high, but it's far from a really bad contract.

[RainMaker]

Hinrich's contract actually goes down every year. It's high, but it's far from a really bad contract.
It's still $9 million in 2010 and over $8 million in 2011. That seems like a lot for a backup guard. I think they want to make the move so that they have all the room in the world in 2010. They'd be able to offer up a much better situation for Lebron, Wade, and Bosh. My gut is they could land one of those guys and still have some wiggle room for another player.

[Galaril]

I'm pretty sure most Celtic fans realize the window is short and the fall will be steep. All of our best players are old as shit save Rondo.

One postive I see with the Celtics they seem to be following suit from the other Boston teams that have been very successful (Pats-Sox) with a wheeling and dealing risk taking GM in Ainge. I have a good degree of confidence we will be able to stay competitive through the Draft and FA down the road.


I wonder what will become of Big Baby losing Powe and him would be a blow even with Sheed.
D

[Coffee Warlord]

They shed a TON of payroll as it is next year, with Miller & Salmons (and others, I think) being off the books. Hinrich is a pretty solid player, an excellent defender, and in my opinion, paired better with Rose down the stretch.

They're not going to get Lebron. If he leaves Cleveland, he's going to New York, end of story. They'll have the room even with Hinrich's contract to give a major offer to Wade or Bosh.

Giving up Hinrich is not worth a 1 year rental.

[ThunderingHERD]

They shed a TON of payroll as it is next year, with Miller & Salmons (and others, I think) being off the books. Hinrich is a pretty solid player, an excellent defender, and in my opinion, paired better with Rose down the stretch.

They're not going to get Lebron. If he leaves Cleveland, he's going to New York, end of story. They'll have the room even with Hinrich's contract to give a major offer to Wade or Bosh.

Giving up Hinrich is not worth a 1 year rental.

The trade absolutely makes them better this year and it won't be hard to replace a 13 PER PG with the 9 million dollars that won't be going to Heinrich next year. I do like Tyrus Thomas, though.

edit: Actually, I'm not convinced it "absolutely makes them better." That's contingent on Boozer getting back to form and Thomas not having a break out year.

[RainMaker]

They shed a TON of payroll as it is next year, with Miller & Salmons (and others, I think) being off the books. Hinrich is a pretty solid player, an excellent defender, and in my opinion, paired better with Rose down the stretch.

They're not going to get Lebron. If he leaves Cleveland, he's going to New York, end of story. They'll have the room even with Hinrich's contract to give a major offer to Wade or Bosh.

Giving up Hinrich is not worth a 1 year rental.

He's not an excellent defender anymore. He's lost a step from where he was back in 2005 and 2006. I like Kirk a lot but he's not worth that kind of money, especially as a backup. If you have a chance to dump that salary, I think you have to.

Boozer still gives them the right to do a sign and trade next offseason I believe and makes them a potential contender in the East.

[Arles]

Grant Hill decided to stay in Phoenix and take less money ($3 mil in 09 plus an option) and the Suns also sign Arizona alum Channing Frye to a 2-year $3.8 mil deal. Both good values for the Suns and the team appears to be finalizing a 2-year extension for Steve Nash and is keeping Amare.

So, the Suns are still a borderline 8-10 seed team, but they won't be the train wreck they appeared to be headed for 2-3 weeks ago (esp since OK City has their pick next season).

[RainMaker]

Apparently the Bulls want Bayless back from Portland in any deal. Sam Smith who was a Bulls beat writer for decades and has a lot of close ties to the organization is saying this is a completely bullshit rumor put out by Portland.

Portland has offered Milsap a front-loaded 4 year deal. There is no way the Jazz can match that without trading Boozer. Will be an interesting week to see what the Jazz do. I have a feeling Boozer ends up in Detroit.

[Gary Gorski]

I have a feeling Boozer ends up in Detroit.

Oh please no - not that it matters anyways it would only perfect our lineup. Lots of teams have won championships playing 2 SGs a SF and 2 PFs. Who needs a point guard or a center?

[Gary Gorski]

and Thomas not having a break out year.


Just how many years do you get to break out? Next thing you know we're going to wait for Darko to have a break out season. :D

[RainMaker]

Just how many years do you get to break out? Next thing you know we're going to wait for Darko to have a break out season. :D
Thomas has shown more flashes. His stats last year were decent and he is a killer with blocks. He just needs a coach to tell him he's not a jump shooter and that he needs to play hard the entire game. I think he could be a solid 12 point, 10 rebound, 3 block a night guy who runs the other team's PF ragged. But it's not going to happen in Chicago and Jerry Sloan is probably his best shot at being converted.

[ThunderingHERD]

Just how many years do you get to break out? Next thing you know we're going to wait for Darko to have a break out season. :D

Well, he's been in the league 3 years but he's still young. If you at what Garnett did per 36 minutes in his 3rd year there's not an enormous difference:

PPG FG% RPG BPG SPG
17.0 .491 8.8 1.7 1.6
14.2 .451 8.4 2.5 1.5
I'm not saying he's going to turn into Garnett, of course, but it's not inconceivable that he would become an all-star type player, even based on what he's done so far (which has generally been considered underachieving).

[RainMaker]

The numbers you are pulling up for Thomas aren't right. He only averaged 10 points a game last year. The best comparision I would make for him is a Shawn Marion type player. A freaky athlete who can rebound and block shots while playing above the rim.

[ThunderingHERD]

The numbers you are pulling up for Thomas aren't right. He only averaged 10 points a game last year.

Those lines are per 36 minutes. He only played like 27 a game last year.

[RainMaker]

Those lines are per 36 minutes. He only played like 27 a game last year.
My bad. The problem is that Thomas isn't in the same league as Garnett defensively and Thomas isn't as skilled offensively. 45% for a guy who plays above the rim is pretty weak.

[ThunderingHERD]

My bad. The problem is that Thomas isn't in the same league as Garnett defensively and Thomas isn't as skilled offensively. 45% for a guy who plays above the rim is pretty weak.

Well, yeh, my point wasn't that Thomas is the next Garnett. I'm just saying his performance up to this point doesn't necessarily suggest that he'll never be an all-star caliber player. There are lots of examples of players who went on to all-star careers who were putting up similar numbers at Thomas' age.

I think his production is a little underrated because of his limited playing time which, to be fair, was a lot of his own fault in his first 2 seasons (he averaged like 6 fouls per 36 his first season!).

[RainMaker]

His lack of minutes is also because of how he plays. He gets real lazy on defense and doesn't run the floor. He settles a lot for mid-range jumpers which he is just not good at. Has the ability to completely throw off the flow of the team. They've tried everything in their power to make him a 40 minute a night guy but he just has games where he hurts them too much.

[whomario]

Next thing you know we're going to wait for Darko to have a break out season. :D


You know what´s sad ? I kind of am ... :redface:
And with D´Antoni and the knicks like having zero Cs it might just work if he gets his ass up and looses some weight and gains some of his mobility back (the guy seriously hulked up for no good reason)


Hmm, nice move by the Blazers putting the brakes on the Jazz´ financial situation and force them to make a decicion. If they match they have to get rid of Boozer (and likely not for fair value), if they don´t the Blazers owner will happily pay i guess.
If they somehow work it out and everybody is happy that could be the best 4-men FC next year.

In related news Patty Mills broke his foot the first day of summer league practice. The guy can´t catch a break since declaring for the draft ...

[Radii]

In related news Patty Mills broke his foot the first day of summer league practice. The guy can´t catch a break since declaring for the draft ...

He could have helped himself by pulling out of the draft, heh. Injuries suck, but this was a bad decision from the start on his part.

[Big Fo]

Orlando fills out their starting five by signing former Mavs PF Brandon Bass to a 4 yr/$18m contract. Good move, now they just need to bolster the bench a little bit.

[Big Fo]

Orlando C Marcin Gortat is not happy that Orlando matched Dallas's offer, according to his agent.

“His reaction naturally was that he was disappointed, because clearly he signed the offer sheet with Dallas with the intent of going to Dallas, which for him represented a tremendous opportunity to potentially start with an excellent team," Zucker said. "He’s a competitor, but he’s also realistic enough to know that the chances that he will start ahead of Dwight Howard are extremely, extremely low. He saw that Dallas made a tremendous commitment money-wise but also basketball-wise to making him a starter for their team for the next five years. He had been very excited about signing the offer sheet, and he was he understandably very disappointed today when I called him and told him they decided to match.

“If you’re a competitor, you’d like to get a chance to measure yourself as an equal to other players, and he felt confident that given the opportunity he could prove himself to be a legitimate NBA starting center.”

A good move for Orlando, they can either try to get something back for him midseason in a trade or just keep him and know they have a quality big man on the bench.

[Logan]

I know I get disappointed when I'm guaranteed $35 million.

Should've signed for the appropriate years that would've earned him unrestricted status (one? two?).

[Big Fo]

I know I get disappointed when I'm guaranteed $35 million.

Should've signed for the appropriate years that would've earned him unrestricted status (one? two?).

Getting a >500% raise in this economy shouldn't feel too harsh, hopefully he gets over it.

[TroyF]

I always get a kick out of those type of comments. So because a guy makes a lot of money, he's not allowed to be unhappy at his working conditions?

If I were a talent evaluator, I'd cross Gortat off my list if he didn't get pissed off. He wants to PLAY. He wants to be given a chance to play 30+ minutes a night, not play 10 behind Dwight Howard.

Now, he has the rules of the bargaining agreement to work with. And that's also why a lot of guys sign one year tenders to be unrestricted. All that said, he has every right to be a little upset he's going back to Orlando to backup Dwight.

One quick note: This isn't a scouting report on Gortat either. It doesn't matter how good you think he will or won't be. This is simply the case of a guy who thought he was going to get a chance to start on an NBA team and now gets to be a backup.

[Logan]

Now, he has the rules of the bargaining agreement to work with. And that's also why a lot of guys sign one year tenders to be unrestricted. All that said, he has every right to be a little upset he's going back to Orlando to backup Dwight.

...

This is simply the case of a guy who thought he was going to get a chance to start on an NBA team and now gets to be a backup.

Because, as you said in the bold, he chose to take the long-term money. Is there a more perfect use of "having your cake and eating it too" than this? He only should be upset at himself if those working conditions were that bad.

[TroyF]

Because, as you said in the bold, he chose to take the long-term money. Is there a more perfect use of "having your cake and eating it too" than this? He only should be upset at himself if those working conditions were that bad.

Agree.

He still has a right to be dissapointed and upset they matched.

Now, if he goes into Derek Bell "Operation Shutdown" because of it, I'll have a far bigger problem with him.

[whomario]

Um, like TroyF said. Just because he says he´s not happy that doesn´t mean he will start downing shots and eating burgers all day while smoking on the bench and trying to throw Dwight off of hotel balconies ...
Seriously, he has a perfect reason to be unhappy at this development for the time being, as long as he´s going to do his job for Orlando that´s no reason to be called out for.

Especially since it is pretty surprising. I mean, the guy made the round in Orlando saying his goodbyes at the summer league recently (giving the media guys that did the summer league Gifts and everything) and made comments about Smith letting the whole 7 days go by to let Gortat do a basketball clinic in Poland before having to do a physichal with the Mavs...

And i think the whole thing seems a bit strange, especially with Bass going from Dallas to Orlando. I´m pretty sure right nowwith no Gortat the Mavs would offer him more than Orlando ... Now, if that´s just bad judgement by the Mavs or if there was an agreement broken by Otis Smith is a good question that might be asked.

[Karlifornia]

Griffin (not Taylor) scored 27 in a summer league game. Nice.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Hawks acquire draft pick from Rockets*| ajc.com (http://www.ajc.com/sports/atlanta-hawks/hawks-acquire-draft-pick-91091.html?cxntlid=homepage_tab_newstab)

The Hawks traded the rights to David Andersen to Houston for a future second-round pick, cash and future considerations, the team announced Tuesday.

A second-round pick of the Hawks in 2002 (37th overall), Andersen has played internationally for the past 11 years.

The Australian-born Andersen, 29, played last season for FC Barcelona in the ACB Spanish League, where he averaged 10.1 points and 4.1 rebounds in 36 games. He averaged 11.1 points and 4.1 rebounds in Euroleague play last season, helping his team to the Euroleague semifinals.

[sterlingice]

Hm... interesting

SI

[Tigercat]

Anthony Randolph is going to be a STUD in the coming years.

He set a NBA summer league record today with 42 points. That off of 13-22 shooting with 4 steals and 3 blocked shots. (and NO turnovers) I know it is just summer league, but damn. And he is still only 19 years old! (20 years old as of tomorrow.)

[Atocep]

Anthony Randolph is going to be a STUD in the coming years.

He set a NBA summer league record today with 42 points. That off of 13-22 shooting with 4 steals and 3 blocked shots. (and NO turnovers) I know it is just summer league, but damn. And he is still only 19 years old! (20 years old as of tomorrow.)

Nikoloz Tskitishvili says hi. ;)

[Tigercat]

Randolph had some games playing as a rookie in the actual NBA where he went 20-10-5 on very limited minutes. So I am not sure that is a fair comparison. He is the best looking player in the summer league this year, just using it as a basis to re-enforce that he has the talent to be great. (Something many NBA analysts already picked up on last year.)

[Arles]

Anthony Randolph is going to be a STUD in the coming years.

He set a NBA summer league record today with 42 points. That off of 13-22 shooting with 4 steals and 3 blocked shots. (and NO turnovers) I know it is just summer league, but damn. And he is still only 19 years old! (20 years old as of tomorrow.)
Robin Lopez had 24 points, 16 boards and 3 blocks yesterday for the Suns. Oh, and he's still a stiff ;)

[Atocep]

Randolph had some games playing as a rookie in the actual NBA where he went 20-10-5 on very limited minutes. So I am not sure that is a fair comparison. He is the best looking player in the summer league this year, just using it as a basis to re-enforce that he has the talent to be great. (Something many NBA analysts already picked up on last year.)

I was just having fun. Randolph looked better last year than Tskitishvili ever did in real NBA games.

[Neuqua]

Didn't Kwame Brown blow up in his first summer league game?

[MrBug708]

Glad to see Afflalo getting a new chance in Denver

[Tigercat]

Didn't Kwame Brown blow up in his first summer league game?

If you have size/strength in the post and decent scoring ability its pretty easy to blow up in one or even a few summer league games. As mentioned above, even some NBA bench caliber stiffs can look awesome down low. Blake Griffin looks unstoppable early on this year. I find Randolph's day somewhat more telling than that sort of performance because Randolph is still a skinny kid, so it is not as if he can post up with any strength and get easy buckets all day long. But regardless, in general its the equivalent of 4th quarters in the NFL preseason.

[stevew]

Remember when Kwame averaged like 5 blocks a game for the first 3-4 games back his 2nd or 3rd year. And he was going to "break out."

What a waste

[Groundhog]

Hawks acquire draft pick from Rockets*| ajc.com (http://www.ajc.com/sports/atlanta-hawks/hawks-acquire-draft-pick-91091.html?cxntlid=homepage_tab_newstab)

The Hawks traded the rights to David Andersen to Houston for a future second-round pick, cash and future considerations, the team announced Tuesday.

A second-round pick of the Hawks in 2002 (37th overall), Andersen has played internationally for the past 11 years.

The Australian-born Andersen, 29, played last season for FC Barcelona in the ACB Spanish League, where he averaged 10.1 points and 4.1 rebounds in 36 games. He averaged 11.1 points and 4.1 rebounds in Euroleague play last season, helping his team to the Euroleague semifinals.

OK, I'm biased, but I think Andersen can play in the NBA. He's one of the best PFs in Europe. I think of him as a sort of Scola-lite.

He was critically under-used in our national team last Olympics.

[stevew]

Agree.

He still has a right to be dissapointed and upset they matched.

Now, if he goes into Derek Bell "Operation Shutdown" because of it, I'll have a far bigger problem with him.

It's always hilarious if you're >7', and demonstrate how you can play for like 10 games, you get thrown at least 30m in free agency.

This is like the Todd MacCoullough, Jerome James, et al contract.

[Groundhog]

Remember when Kwame averaged like 5 blocks a game for the first 3-4 games back his 2nd or 3rd year. And he was going to "break out."

What a waste

Search youtube for Kwame's (I think) 30 points 17 rebound game and watch the footwork he shows. I don't know what the hell happened after that game, but he looks like the best PF of our generation on that night.

[Groundhog]

It's always hilarious if you're >7', and demonstrate how you can play for like 10 games, you get thrown at least 30m in free agency.

This is like the Todd MacCoullough, Jerome James, et al contract.

At least Toddy Mac could play, it was injuries that took him down. Jerome James on the other hand...

[DaddyTorgo]

Search youtube for Kwame's (I think) 30 points 17 rebound game and watch the footwork he shows. I don't know what the hell happened after that game, but he looks like the best PF of our generation on that night.

weed

[JeeberD]

OK, I'm biased, but I think Andersen can play in the NBA. He's one of the best PFs in Europe. I think of him as a sort of Scola-lite.

He was critically under-used in our national team last Olympics.

Hmmm...so does that indicate that the Rox are going to trade Landry or Scola?

[stevew]

I doubt it, you guys still need as many bigs as possible.

[ThunderingHERD]

Randolph averaged 15.9 points, 11.6 rebounds, 2.4 blocks, and 1.3 steals per 36 minutes last year as the youngest player in the league.

[Karlifornia]

Randolph averaged 15.9 points, 11.6 rebounds, 2.4 blocks, and 1.3 steals per 36 minutes last year as the youngest player in the league.

Yeah, Randolph has supreme talent it would seem. I'm been verging on being really concerned about the Warriors in the near future. I've kind of done an about face in regards to Don Nelson. After the playoff run, the 48 wins or whatever in '07-'08, and success in his previous Warriors tenure, I thought of him as the savior of Warriors basketball. Now I'm, at best, ambivalent, and at worst, pained at the thought of the future holds for the Warriors.

Best case next year:

-Monta Ellis returns to being the player he seemed to be turning into two seasons ago.

-Randolph continues to develop to a unique, awesome player.

-Morrow leads the league in 3-point shooting % again.

-Belinelli makes great strides. I saw something in him last year when he was healthy and got playing time. He seems to have very good instincts, and can shoot the lights out. He tries real hard on defense, although I'm not sure that will turn out to be enough

-Curry shows he's NBA ready. I don't think he is, and I'm not sold on him ever being more than a bench player. You saw how Davidson was last season without a true PG. Maybe it was just the complete lack of talent around him. They were still a decent mid-major team, but they didn't have enough to even qualify for the NCAA tournament, compared to the Elite 8 run of the previous year when they had a point guard. The Warriors don't have a true PG either, which scares me. Maybe combining Monta Ellis' penetration with his outside shooting ability you have something. Then again, maybe you just have two undersized combo guards getting eaten alive on the defensive end.

-Biedrins needs to stay out of foul trouble. He can play, and he's still very young, and seems to be getting better. The Warriors are markedly better when he's on the floor. If you could have him at the 5, and play Turiaf some at the 4, then maybe the team doesn't get murdered on the boards all the time.

[Big Fo]

Nate Robinson has a 2yr/$10m offer to join Josh Childress at Olympiakos.

[JeeberD]

I doubt it, you guys still need as many bigs as possible.

What we need is a center, not another PF. I can see the Rox packaging Landry (amongst other players) to bring in a true C...

[TroyF]

It's always hilarious if you're >7', and demonstrate how you can play for like 10 games, you get thrown at least 30m in free agency.

This is like the Todd MacCoullough, Jerome James, et al contract.

I think the difference is Gortat can actually play. He's been a terrific player off the bench for two years running now. He's not Dwight Howard good, but he's good enough that he could start at C on a majority of teams in the league IMHO.

Jerome James had PER's of around 10-12 (well below the league average) before the Knicks signed him.

Gortat's PER in both of his years has been above 17. Give him minutes, and he'll be an above average center in this league. Not an star, but a guy who can be a starting center on a championship contender.

James couldn't be a starter on a lottery team.

[ThunderingHERD]

-Curry shows he's NBA ready. I don't think he is, and I'm not sold on him ever being more than a bench player. You saw how Davidson was last season without a true PG. Maybe it was just the complete lack of talent around him. They were still a decent mid-major team, but they didn't have enough to even qualify for the NCAA tournament, compared to the Elite 8 run of the previous year when they had a point guard. The Warriors don't have a true PG either, which scares me. Maybe combining Monta Ellis' penetration with his outside shooting ability you have something. Then again, maybe you just have two undersized combo guards getting eaten alive on the defensive end.


I really don't see how people are so in to Curry. How much value is there in an unathletic, undersized SG who's not going to do much more than score (maybe) 20 a game on 40% shooting?

[Logan]

Yeah, as a Knick fan I would've killed for Gortat to step into James' contract.

[Icy]

Spanish press says today that Rubio has finally agreed to go to Minnesota, now it's all about dealing with his buyout. Both his USA agent, Fegan, and his Spanish one are in Minnesota right now and had a meeting with the Wolves GM.

One of the possible tricks talked about to bend the NBA rule of $500k Max possible expenses by NBA teams in Euro buyouts, is to deal and buy from DKV both Ricky and their 2nd rounder also from DKV Henk Norel for $1M. That way they help Ricky as the $1M would be towards his buyout, with Norel maybe just being released or resent to DKV.

[stevew]

I think the difference is Gortat can actually play. He's been a terrific player off the bench for two years running now. He's not Dwight Howard good, but he's good enough that he could start at C on a majority of teams in the league IMHO.

Jerome James had PER's of around 10-12 (well below the league average) before the Knicks signed him.

Gortat's PER in both of his years has been above 17. Give him minutes, and he'll be an above average center in this league. Not an star, but a guy who can be a starting center on a championship contender.

James couldn't be a starter on a lottery team.

Gortat played in 6 games in 07-08, and then had 48 minutes in the postseason, so I don't think that really matters in the scheme of things. That's not "terrific for 2 years running"

But anyways, even if he can play, giving someone 33million after 69 career games seems awfully generous.

[Groundhog]

This is probably a good year to be a 2nd round pick or undrafted FA, with around half a dozen NBA teams who are going to be far more likely to add a minimum contract over a proven veteran due to the economic climate.

Jodie Meeks in Milwaukee has been pretty impressive, doing what he did in college basically, except at a better clip. I'd be shocked if he didn't find his way on to the Bucks' roster, given that they are one of the teams looking to cut costs.

[whomario]

The Pistons and Rockets 2nd rounders also are doing a good job. Summers and Jerebko as well as Budinger, Taylor. Dorsey also looks much better than last year.

The Rockets also traded for the rights to David Andersen btw. Former Draft Pick of the Hawks, now one of Europe´s better PF/C in his prime. Wouldn´t trade if he wouldn´t want to come over, so expect to see him in a Houston Jersey for a good part of the Midlevel. Propably a selling point how well they integrated Scola.
Then again he is more a PF definitely. While he is 6´11/7´ he is also pretty skinny and not much of a shot blocker or rebounder. But propably the best big in Europe at creating his shot off a drible or 2 from the Highpost with good range on a quick release, very good footwork as well and has some serious finesse moves . And since it´s not like the Rockets have a ton of guys that can create their own shot ...
Hayes/Andersen
Scola/Landry

is at least a pretty versatile rotation there. And if Yao comes back sometime this season than Andersen fits great next to him.

[Groundhog]

The Pistons and Rockets 2nd rounders also are doing a good job. Summers and Jerebko as well as Budinger, Taylor. Dorsey also looks much better than last year.

The Rockets also traded for the rights to David Andersen btw. Former Draft Pick of the Hawks, now one of Europe´s better PF/C in his prime. Wouldn´t trade if he wouldn´t want to come over, so expect to see him in a Houston Jersey for a good part of the Midlevel. Propably a selling point how well they integrated Scola.
Then again he is more a PF definitely. While he is 6´11/7´ he is also pretty skinny and not much of a shot blocker or rebounder. But propably the best big in Europe at creating his shot off a drible or 2 from the Highpost with good range on a quick release, very good footwork as well and has some serious finesse moves . And since it´s not like the Rockets have a ton of guys that can create their own shot ...
Hayes/Andersen
Scola/Landry

is at least a pretty versatile rotation there. And if Yao comes back sometime this season than Andersen fits great next to him.

I heard an interview with Andersen and yeah, he's coming to the Rockets, didn't mention for how much, but I'd imagine it'd involve the midlevel, considering what he earns in Europe.

Dorsey talked the talk prior to Summer League, good to see him living up to it so far. Last year there I read a few things about his effort and attitude that put me off him, but hopefully he turns it around.

[whomario]

btw : The Warriors really have some promising players showing themselves in this summer league in Morrow and Randolph. Curry has been so-so in the way that his shot is really, really off but he´s getting good looks and also got to the line, so i am pretty sure he´ll be good in that aspect of the game. And his defense was good if you ask me, good job staying in fron of guys and also got in the passing lanes.
Randolph dominated and is just spectacular to watch, he really could be another Lamar Odom with his ability to play like a Guard at the 4 spot. Randolph is also more light-footed.
And Morrow is a ridiculously good shooter (i mean, didn´t shoot 47% by accident as a rookie last year) and could be a very good 6th man or a good starter for some teams.
If the Warriors ever get it together they will be a good team. A fun one definitely.

Biedrins
Randolph
Azubuike
Jackson
Ellis

Magette
Morrow
Curry
Wright
Turiaf
Belinelli
Law
Watson

that´s a pretty good roster on paper and in terms of talent. They should and might look to make a trade as they have kind of a logjam.

And Chase Budinger looks like Rip Hamilton out there. Incredibly efficient scoring in summer league : 18 PPG in 22 MPG on 68% FG (32-47) and 8-11 3s and 17-18 FTs. Thats 1,9 PPS ...
The bad thing is he didn´t do much beside scoring with 5 Assists and 11 Rebounds in 5 games as well as so-so defense (seriously, how does a guy with great size and athleticism get only 2 RPG ?). But he´s a great fit with Adelman´s offense and could very well be in the rotation on opening night.
Dorsey another great game with 11/20, averaged 10/15 with 3/3 BPG/APG.
Houston finished 5-0 without a first round pick in the roster.

[ThunderingHERD]

Golden State does have some good young players (I like Brandan Wright as well), but Summer league stats really don't mean anything. Last year, for example, Jerryd Bayless scored 30 a game and won the summer league MVP. He averaged 4 ppg on 36% shooting in the regular season.

[albionmoonlight]

I agree that Golden State should be fun to watch. And that should mean something since the reason we watch the game is to be entertained.

If my team is one of those "should be above .500, but probably not in the tier of teams who can win the title this season" teams (which is where Golden State seems to be), I'd much rather watch a bunch of young guys having fun and scoring a ton than a team of decent veterans playing grinder ball.

[Neon_Chaos]

Wade left Converse for Nike.

God, we might have 3 puppets now.
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[whomario]

Golden State does have some good young players (I like Brandan Wright as well), but Summer league stats really don't mean anything. Last year, for example, Jerryd Bayless scored 30 a game and won the summer league MVP. He averaged 4 ppg on 36% shooting in the regular season.

wasn´t going to take them as important by any means, for Golden State f.e. anyone could see that Randolph can play when he got the chance (and the production was there, too) and Morrow produced like 11 PPG in 22 Minutes last season and simply can shoot the ball like few others while being a decent enough athlete and ball handler to have potential to be more than just a spot up shooter.
I really don´t tend to look at summer league stats but only judged when i see games myself (btw : greedy ass-move by the NBA to charge for summer league ...) . Just brought up Budingers stats because they are kind of ridiculous and perfectly underline what you could see watching the games.
I don´t think he took more than a handful shots that you can´t classify as "great look" and allways seemed to be in the perfect spot to receive the ball, moves extremely well off the ball and makes himself space that way.

And as for Bayless : His problem is that he relies on qualities that are tough to translate into production until you are at a certain level. He´s not a role player but a guy that needs the ball in his hands and needs to attack, a guy that is anything but a spot up shooter. But if you are playing for a good playoff spot and have a Brandon Roy at the 2 you aren´t going to give playing time to a guy that produces like 4 mental errors per Minute on defense and is out of control every other trip on offense. But the talent is definitely there.

[stevew]

Wade left Converse for Nike.

God, we might have 3 puppets now.



converse is owned by nike, fwiw.

[ThunderingHERD]

Actually, he left Converse for Jordan. And, yes, both are owned by Nike.

[stevew]

In relation to what these guys are paid, do Nike and others actually benefit from the endorsements?
Like how well does the LeBron line sell. Vs. Jordan.


Anyone read a good article on the shoe/endorsements market lately that they'd like to share?

[ThunderingHERD]

In relation to what these guys are paid, do Nike and others actually benefit from the endorsements?
Like how well does the LeBron line sell. Vs. Jordan.


Anyone read a good article on the shoe/endorsements market lately that they'd like to share?


I'm not sure what the expectations are when they sign someone like, say, Lebron, and how much of it is tied to their specific shoe lines (vs. just generally being a face of the brand). I've read that the Jordan brand (including Chris Paul and Carmelo Anthony shoes) still dominates the premium shoe market, though, with something like 90% of the market share.

[whomario]

Yao going to sit out the season, surgery next week :

ROCKETS: Yao Ming to undergo surgery next week (http://www.nba.com/rockets/news/Yao_Ming_to_undergo_surgery_ne-319442-34.html)

basically getting a surgery similar to what Ilgauskas got to fix his foot-problems.

Just heartbreaking if you follow the guy, just a great personality and hard worker ... But maybe this gives him another good run of 3 or 4 years from 2010 on (where he´ll be turning 30 in september).


Bucks sign their former draft pick Ersan Ilyasova again: He left the Bucks after his first 2 years and was in Europe for 2 years playing for Barcelona who now lost 2 of their Front Court players with him and Andersen. Had about 11/7 on 47% shooting including 40% from 3 in both the ACB and the Euroleague. And the Bucks sign him for 3 years and 7 million, indicating he´s propably getting a solid shot at being a rotation player.
Still only 22 years old (well, supposedly anyways ... There´s been a lot of talk about him being actually 3 years older) and a good signing imo.

[Groundhog]

Celtics sign Marquis Daniels, a guy who figures to fit in perfectly to their rotation as a backup SG/SF.

[whomario]

yeah, that´s a good signing. They didn´t have any real backups at those spots last year (Tony Allen maybe, but he also only played like half the games and is short). Daniels can even guard some PGs giving them the option to play him next to Pierce/Allen.
What he can´t do is shoot from long range, so playing him and Rondo together at times would be a challenging in terms of setting up the offense.
But good defender, rebounds some, finishes well and can handle the ball some. And for that kind of money (1,9 mio veteran exception) he´s a bargain.

[whomario]

Quentin Richardson got traded, again. Now to the Timberwolves in exchange with Craig Smith, Telfair and Madsen (wait, he´s still around ?) .
Has a player ever been traded 3 times in less than a month ?

Kind of hilarious. What´s the over/under for the rest of the offseason ? :D

[jbergey22]

Quentin Richardson got traded, again. Now to the Timberwolves in exchange with Craig Smith, Telfair and Madsen (wait, he´s still around ?) .
Has a player ever been traded 3 times in less than a month ?

Kind of hilarious. What´s the over/under for the rest of the offseason ? :D

2.5? Does Q have an expiring contract after next season? If not this trade doesnt make much sense to me.

EDIT I looked it up and he does. Twolves must have plans in place to get some free agents next year. Not exactly sure who would want to go there right now but atleast Kahn is freeing up some of McHales mess.

Its looking like their cap for next season will be around 30 million(2010-2011) which means even with the projected cap of 53 million theyd have 23 million in room which leaves them lots of options.

[JeeberD]

So it's being reported that TMZ has the Lebron getting dunked on video and will be posting it on their site tomorrow...

[DaddyTorgo]

So it's being reported that TMZ has the Lebron getting dunked on video and will be posting it on their site tomorrow...
:confused:

[Big Fo]

haha I hope so

hopefully his ego isn't too wounded :rolleyes:

[Neon_Chaos]

I bet it's not that bad, and LeBron is just being a diva.

[jbergey22]

haha I hope so

hopefully his ego isn't too wounded :rolleyes:


This whole deal makes me laugh. Lebron is set up for life and yet he is too much of an egomaniac to help let an 18 year old get over on him and possibly help him out in the future. C'mon Lebron grow a sack.

[albionmoonlight]

:confused:

LeBron/Nike had a skills camp. At that camp, a college kid dunked on LeBron. Nike and/or LeBron confiscated the tapes of the dunk.

This turns out to be much worse for LeBron's image than had they/he just let the video out, had a laugh at it, and let it be forgotten in 15 minutes.

[DaddyTorgo]

lol nice

"OMG SOME KID DUNKED ON LEBRON!!! HIS IMAGE IS RUINED!!!"

[Subby]

I thought for sure that with Nike's savvy they would have repackaged it and let it go viral with the message "you wear LeBron's shoes, you dunk on LeBron"

...or something like that.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

From everything I've read it was LeBron who asked for the footage to be taken, not Nike.

[Neon_Chaos]

Video's up on TMZ.

I'm disappointed. That was it? That's what LeBron wanted confiscated? Jeez.
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[Fidatelo]

Uh-ho-ho-ho oh my gawd!

[MikeVic]

Really, that's it? I can't even tell if it's LeBron. Was there any more to this? Seems like a crazy overreaction from Queen James.

[ThunderingHERD]

Ricky Rubio plans to leave Spanish team even if Minnesota Timberwolves can't agree on buyout - ESPN (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4348398)

Spanish basketball clubs Real Madrid and Barcelona are both interested in signing Rubio if he cannot make it to the NBA this season. Unlike the Timberwolves, they are not subject to the collective bargaining rules of the NBA and could pay the entire buyout fee to get him.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Really, that's it? I can't even tell if it's LeBron. Was there any more to this? Seems like a crazy overreaction from Queen James.


Much cleaner version on Ebaums.

hxxp://ebaumnation.com/2009/07/22/jordan-crawford-dunks-on-lebron-james

[Groundhog]

Well that was a massive dissapointment.

[Samdari]

That's much more dunking near him than dunking on him.

[Big Fo]

At least it got ESPN to show Vince Carter's dunk over Frederic Weis in the Olympics again, in a top ten of people getting dunked on.

[Logan]

Nothing gets ESPN more excited than balls in the face of a Frenchman.

[Subby]

Wednesday, July 22, 2009
Who's at the head of the rookie class?

By David Thorpe

Curry, Thabeet, Rubio and Griffin all have the potential to be impact players in year one.

Ranking the rookies before the season relies on a simple formula: Talent plus opportunity equals overall production. Much guesswork remains in terms of predicting opportunity, as teams are still filling out their depth charts, so we'll tweak this list as the offseason moves along. And we'll add more second-rounders once we get a better idea of which ones will actually make a roster.

Until then, here's my first 2009-10 rookie report:

The top 10

1. Blake Griffin, Clippers
His combination of talent, powerful athleticism and passion for the game is unique. And he can be a culture changer for a franchise in desperate need of one.

I once heard Christian Laettner, then starring for back-to-back NCAA championship runs at Duke, explain that the key to his success was that he "played poor." No description better defines Griffin's style -- he plays with an attitude that seems bent on proving he belongs, despite being rich in talent.

2. Tyreke Evans, Kings
Evans is playing for a team in need of talent upgrades, especially at the point guard spot. So it is hard to imagine anything less than 30 minutes a night for this scoring machine.

Similar to Derrick Rose's situation last season, Evans can expect the offense to revolve a good deal around what he does best. The Kings will post him up, spread the floor for him and feature him as the clock winds down on numerous occasions. With his craftiness, length and skill as a finisher, he could lead the rookie class in points per game.

3. Jonny Flynn, Timberwolves
As of today, he's the starting point guard for a team that has great talent inside (and two big bodies to use as ball screens). Flynn has great charisma on the floor, and he can use his jets in both the half-court and full-court game.

Considering the Wolves don't have a backup point guard who demands playing time, Flynn may lead this rookie class in minutes played. And with his confidence and talent, he'll put up very productive numbers. Unless … Ricky Rubio decides to suit up for the Wolves, too.

4. DeMar DeRozan, Raptors
No player impressed me more during the summer league than he did. He played like a bigger version of Courtney Lee -- he was smart with the ball, didn't force things and played off his teammates very well. Those attributes are perfect for his role on the Raps, who look very similar to last season's Magic.

DeRozan can simply make plays within the system and let his veteran teammates carry the tougher work until he evolves into the quality starter he seems destined to become.

5. Brandon Jennings, Bucks
If Ramon Sessions stays in Milwaukee, Jennings will fall out of the top 10. But because Sessions is expected to leave, Jennings projects to play major minutes. And he's too talented not to put up some impressive numbers.

Jennings plays like a true point, looking to score only if it's the best option. And he showed in summer league that he can make players better, especially in transition. As I watched him play in Vegas, I kept thinking, "Who wouldn't like playing with this guy?" If Jennings accepts the tough love he'll get from Bucks coach Scott Skiles, he will be a candidate for rookie of the year.

6. James Harden, Thunder
I think Harden is the second-best American player in this class, but he's competing for playing time with Thabo Sefolosha, an up-and-coming player who does many of the same things Harden does. The Thunder need to develop both guys, which means Harden probably won't get the minutes that the guys ahead of him on this list will.

Still, this gifted passer plays the game beautifully, with a veteran's pace and intelligence, so he'll be productive in the time he gets. Should Sefolosha falter, Harden immediately would become a ROY contender.

7. Stephen Curry, Warriors
On one hand, Curry might have been the second-most disappointing rookie in Vegas (though he was second by a long shot to Hasheem Thabeet), shooting poorly and with seemingly no thoughts behind his actions. But on the other hand, he found a way to contribute in other areas.

Curry will figure out a smarter way to play offense (his coach will help), so it seems likely that he'll end up performing solidly this season.

8. Earl Clark, Suns
As I tweeted from Vegas, it'll be very hard to keep Clark off the floor this season -- primarily, and perhaps a bit ironically, because of his talents on defense. Clark can defend bigs and wings, using his length, quickness and excellent feel for the game. With Phoenix's front line in flux, it looks as though he'll earn ample opportunities to show he deserved to be a high lottery pick.

He's also an excellent passer and a perfect fit in the Suns' offense.

9. Tyler Hansbrough, Pacers
He showed in Orlando summer league that what we saw from him at UNC for four years is what we'll get going forward; he's a beast of a player. He's better off coming off the bench, where his energy will be even more valuable.

One item of concern: Hansbrough relies on getting to the free throw line a great deal, and that might not happen often as a rookie. He's better off focusing on finishing rather than trying to get the whistle. He also will be a factor in the Pacers' transition game, as he rarely fails to race the floor.


10. Jordan Hill, Knicks
Like Clark, the current lack of an identity on the Knicks' front line suggests that Hill will get minutes. And he's the type of player who will perform better when surrounded by veterans who understand spacing and timing. Hill will compete at a high level, and his size and agility combined with his effort will translate well to the Knicks' system.

The next 10

This is where the lack of starter talent jumps out, especially compared with last year's rooks. In truth, that argument can be made after the first seven or eight guys listed above. The next 10 are all solid NBA prospects, but they have a lot of work to do to ensure that their teams don't draft the same position next year.


11. Wayne Ellington, Timberwolves
He's already a good NBA shooter, and he has the rangy athleticism that will help him defend and rebound. Playing with a dynamo point guard (Flynn) and talented bigs (Al Jefferson, Kevin Love) will help him get easier shots, too. The lack of shooting guards on Minnesota's roster should guarantee Ellington minutes from the get-go.

12. DeMarre Carroll, Grizzlies
As I've written over and over again, energy is a talent. Carroll excels in this area. Memphis has a need for his ability, especially when its starters have poor starts. Carroll will change the flavor of a game often enough to continue to demand minutes. He's a solid finisher, too.

13. Darren Collison, Hornets
He'd be a top-10 guy for me if he were playing on almost any other team. His ability to handle the point guard duties for the Hornets will be evident from day one. Of course, playing behind the world's best point guard will make it hard for Collison to play more than 10 minutes a game. Maybe New Orleans coach Byron Scott will develop him earlier and get CP3 more rest during the season.

14. Jeff Teague, Hawks
We didn't see him during summer league, but his talents are undeniable. Although Mike Bibby has a new deal, Teague is Atlanta's point guard of the future. I think we might see them play together some as well.

15. Ty Lawson, Nuggets
When Lawson is the best offensive player on a team, the results may not be pretty. But on a loaded Nuggets squad, he's perfect -- as long as he focuses more on defense. Like Jennings, he's a joy to play alongside.


16. Gerald Henderson, Bobcats
This athletic guard has a chance to fly up our board if he can get playing time from a coach who doesn't just give minutes away to rooks. Of course, Henderson is used to strong coaching, so his learning curve could be swift.

17. Terrence Williams, Nets
He's the hardest guy to project in a sense. He's not much of a scorer. However, he loves to compete, and he's a terrific passer. His athleticism helps him a great deal, too. Will he find a position fast enough to crack the rotation early? I think so, and he could do it as a small forward.

18. Austin Daye, Pistons
He deserves to be higher based on his summer debut, but playing behind Mr. Do-it-all (otherwise known as Tayshaun Prince) suggests that he'll spend most of the season learning and getting stronger

19. Omri Casspi, Kings
"The Zohan" struggled on offense in Vegas, partly because of forced inactivity until his FIBA contract got resolved. He looked more comfortable at the end of summer league, bringing energy and playmaking skills to a team in desperate need of both. Donte Greene's poor performance this summer left the door wide open for Casspi.


20. Toney Douglas, Knicks
Douglas may have been the worst shooter on the worst team in Vegas. But his ability to run a team and defend his position ranked near the top. His shooting woes likely will not continue on the Knicks, and his playmaking and ball-hawking skills will translate into decent minutes.

The best of the rest

Some of these guys are second-round guys; others are first-rounders who looked OK in summer league but are stuck behind too many good players.


James Johnson, Bulls
He showed excellent talent as a passer and had some impressive moments during summer league. But with Luol Deng, John Salmons, Tyrus Thomas and Joakim Noah in front of him at the 3 and 4 spots, how much will he play?

DeJuan Blair, Spurs
Blair did as expected -- he moved people around and got buckets and boards. He has lost 50 pounds since college but still plays "heavy" (below the rim or too slow in transition) too often. However, he could be one of a few rookies playing meaningful minutes in the spring.

Marcus Thornton, Hornets
Thornton needs lots of shots to score, but unlike most volume shooters, he can really play the game. And he brings great tenacity, too. I think he and Collison can end up forming a strong bench nucleus for the Hornets.

DaJuan Summers, Pistons
Might have been a top-five rookie performer in Vegas. The huge changes on Detroit's front line suggest that Summers will spend a lot of time on the court … and in our top 20 eventually.

Jodie Meeks, Bucks
It's hard to ask for more than what Meeks did in Vegas, where he hit a lot of big shots and competed at a high level. He looks like a surefire NBA player, and his attitude seems perfect for the kind of coaching he'll get. He was all business during summer league play.

Chase Budinger, Rockets
The comparisons to Adam Morrison (all offense, no defense) are missing one huge factor: Budinger is a purer shooter than Ammo was coming out of college. Budinger shot incredibly well all week in Vegas and made the best argument possible that he belongs on the Rockets' roster.

Dante Cunningham, Blazers
I'm not sure he'll make Portland's roster this year, but not because of how he played in Vegas. He was a standout there.

The project list


Ricky Rubio, Timberwolves
He's not a project on the court, but getting him to Minnesota seems to be the biggest project facing the T-Wolves. He's going to make everyone on that team better, once he's in uniform. One hundred percent of the executives I spoke with felt he should have been a top four selection, and all cited his master set of passing skills. They also said his shooting is underrated and will get much better in time.

Jrue Holiday, 76ers
Holiday had the double misfortune of not playing the point for an entire season at UCLA (though after watching Collison's talent it's easy to understand why), then getting to do it for the hybrid Nets-Sixers team that never jelled at all. The bad news is that every part of his offensive game seemed below par, but the good news is that his talent was obvious. He's a solid prospect to be sure, and the best news is that he defended the ball better than any guard we saw in either summer league.

Hasheem Thabeet, Grizzlies
This much is certain: The Grizzlies knew they were getting a project when they drafted him. And although his attitude seemed positive and his demeanor on the court was professional, his effort level never came close to what it will take for him to have success in the NBA. His lack of strength, balance or scoring skills is not the issue. Give him that same set of weaknesses, but replace his passion for the games with Blake Griffin's, and Memphis would have a center who would be the envy of the entire league.

[mckerney]

Ricky Rubio, Timberwolves
He's not a project on the court, but getting him to Minnesota seems to be the biggest project facing the T-Wolves. He's going to make everyone on that team better, once he's in uniform. One hundred percent of the executives I spoke with felt he should have been a top four selection, and all cited his master set of passing skills. They also said his shooting is underrated and will get much better in time.

David Kahn has reportedly lined up $4 million in endorsement deals that will help pay Rubio's buyout. Plus, trading Sebastian Telfair without really having another PG on the roster besides Flynn it seems he's confident Rubio will be playing for the Wolves next season.

[MikeVic]

Nice to hear about DeRozan.

[Logan]

Really, that's it? I can't even tell if it's LeBron. Was there any more to this? Seems like a crazy overreaction from Queen James.

Before I realized that Nike put out a statement condemning two journalists for "not respecting their no videotaping policy," I thought I figured out the genius behind this whole scam:

- Be the guy behind the camera when LeBron gets somewhat dunked on.
- Pocket said tape.
- Send emails to blogs like Deadspin saying that LeBron got dunked on by some kid and that he and Nike, in a fit of panic and diva-ness, confiscated all tapes.
- Let the story build up for a few days, when of course LeBron and Nike would deny any wrongdoing.
- Sell tape to TMZ.

If it were only that bad...

[Groundhog]

Wednesday, July 22, 2009
1. Blake Griffin, Clippers
His combination of talent, powerful athleticism and passion for the game is unique. And he can be a culture changer for a franchise in desperate need of one.

I once heard Christian Laettner, then starring for back-to-back NCAA championship runs at Duke, explain that the key to his success was that he "played poor." No description better defines Griffin's style -- he plays with an attitude that seems bent on proving he belongs, despite being rich in talent.

A comparison to Laettner and a Clippers uniform should just about doom Griffin's NBA career.

2. Tyreke Evans, Kings
Evans is playing for a team in need of talent upgrades, especially at the point guard spot. So it is hard to imagine anything less than 30 minutes a night for this scoring machine.

Tall PGs have a habit of becoming SGs after a few seasons.

17. Terrence Williams, Nets
He's the hardest guy to project in a sense. He's not much of a scorer. However, he loves to compete, and he's a terrific passer. His athleticism helps him a great deal, too. Will he find a position fast enough to crack the rotation early? I think so, and he could do it as a small forward.

I was surprised to watch Terrence Williams in the summer league, given what I've seen of him in college. He was taking a lot of midrange and longer jumpers, and looked confident taking them, and they were going down more often than not. The rest of his game is pretty tight, so if he can knock down the open J he'll be a solid rotation guy.

DeJuan Blair, Spurs
Blair did as expected -- he moved people around and got buckets and boards. He has lost 50 pounds since college but still plays "heavy" (below the rim or too slow in transition) too often. However, he could be one of a few rookies playing meaningful minutes in the spring.

Don't know how he can be ranked so low. He was a beast in the summer league, and his game should transfer over to the NBA fairly well if he can avoid foul trouble.

Jodie Meeks, Bucks
It's hard to ask for more than what Meeks did in Vegas, where he hit a lot of big shots and competed at a high level. He looks like a surefire NBA player, and his attitude seems perfect for the kind of coaching he'll get. He was all business during summer league play.

Meeks was very impressive. If Redd misses time this season, Meeks will get minutes.

Hasheem Thabeet, Grizzlies
This much is certain: The Grizzlies knew they were getting a project when they drafted him. And although his attitude seemed positive and his demeanor on the court was professional, his effort level never came close to what it will take for him to have success in the NBA. His lack of strength, balance or scoring skills is not the issue. Give him that same set of weaknesses, but replace his passion for the games with Blake Griffin's, and Memphis would have a center who would be the envy of the entire league.

At the beginning of the article he states that Thabeet could be an impact player in his first season, and then at the end of the article details every reason why there is no way in hell that will happen. Thabeet was this year's "Big Guy Project That Somebody Has To Draft in the Lottery But You Hope It Isn't Your Team To Do It", or BGPTSHTDitLBYHIIYTDI for short. :)

[ThunderingHERD]

Yeh, I don't care for that list. Not sold on Evans, don't like Derozan or Jennings. Curry may get points by virtue of getting minutes and shots, but his efficiency will be awful.

[Warhammer]

I wish the league would force out Michael Heisley as owner of the Grizzlies. Ever since he has taken over more control of the team, the worse they have gotten.

[RainMaker]

Blair was the steal of the draft. They virtually pay him nothing and he can give any team in the league a strong 10 minutes a night off the bench rebounding.

[whomario]

I gotta say one thing about Thabeet though : As crappy as his stats were and as awful he looked at times offensively, the guy changed the game defensively even while not getting anything going. Seriously, everyone had a tough time scoring in the lane when he was in the game.
Haddadi as backup good in that regard as well, the low points allowed by the Grizzlies far from a coincidence.

Other than that i agree about Curry. His shot will come arround and i take a summer league where his shot is off but he looks solid handling the ball and plays better-than-expected defense for encouragement .

@ Groundhog : For that ranking he basically tries to project their impact this year and Blair has gotten pretty stiff competition with the signings of McDyess and Haislip, Bonner is going to get minutes as well. Wouldn´t be surprised if he´s the 4th big at best and hovers at arroung 15 MPG for most of the year with a couple DNPs thrown in depending on matchups.

[Gary Gorski]

Thabeet is awful - but it fits the Grizzlies organization. Memphis could have done something smart in the draft (but that would be out of character for them). Why not trade #2 to the Knicks for #8 and Wilson Chandler? Everyone knows NY wanted Rubio and vice versa - at 8 the Grizz could have gotten Jordan Hill which would fill a need at the 4 (they already have Marc Gasol at the 5) plus Chandler would have been a phenomenal 6th man.

I can't imagine anyone really "wanted" to draft Thabeet - why not stick someone else with that choice? The thing is if they really wanted Thabeet who else was going to take him? OKC maybe but their GM is a pretty savvy guy - I don't think he would have gone with Thabeet. Sacramento has Hawes, Minnesota had 5 and 6 and has Jefferson and Love and Golden State has Biedrins. They could have had something from the Knicks plus gotten Thabeet at 8 potentially and then nobody would have questioned the pick. It's much easier to say you couldn't pass up a chance on a guy like that at 8 than it is at 2.

[albionmoonlight]

Thabeet is awful - but it fits the Grizzlies organization. Memphis could have done something smart in the draft (but that would be out of character for them). Why not trade #2 to the Knicks for #8 and Wilson Chandler? Everyone knows NY wanted Rubio and vice versa - at 8 the Grizz could have gotten Jordan Hill which would fill a need at the 4 (they already have Marc Gasol at the 5) plus Chandler would have been a phenomenal 6th man.

I can't imagine anyone really "wanted" to draft Thabeet - why not stick someone else with that choice? The thing is if they really wanted Thabeet who else was going to take him? OKC maybe but their GM is a pretty savvy guy - I don't think he would have gone with Thabeet. Sacramento has Hawes, Minnesota had 5 and 6 and has Jefferson and Love and Golden State has Biedrins. They could have had something from the Knicks plus gotten Thabeet at 8 potentially and then nobody would have questioned the pick. It's much easier to say you couldn't pass up a chance on a guy like that at 8 than it is at 2.

Good post

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Thabeet is awful - but it fits the Grizzlies organization. Memphis could have done something smart in the draft (but that would be out of character for them).

FWIW......I've been excited of late to see a few articles noting that Memphis may have got a steal drafting Carroll where they did, so perhaps not all is lost. But I do agree with you that Thabeet is overrated as a pro.

[Gary Gorski]

Carroll could make for a good role player in the NBA - 15 to 20 minutes a night of high energy and hustle. You can't have enough of that kind of player on the bench. But if you're a bad team you can't afford to waste top 5 picks.

[MikeVic]

I gotta say one thing about Thabeet though : As crappy as his stats were and as awful he looked at times offensively, the guy changed the game defensively even while not getting anything going. Seriously, everyone had a tough time scoring in the lane when he was in the game.
Haddadi as backup good in that regard as well, the low points allowed by the Grizzlies far from a coincidence.

Other than that i agree about Curry. His shot will come arround and i take a summer league where his shot is off but he looks solid handling the ball and plays better-than-expected defense for encouragement .

@ Groundhog : For that ranking he basically tries to project their impact this year and Blair has gotten pretty stiff competition with the signings of McDyess and Haislip, Bonner is going to get minutes as well. Wouldn´t be surprised if he´s the 4th big at best and hovers at arroung 15 MPG for most of the year with a couple DNPs thrown in depending on matchups.

Wasn't Thabeet averaging like 5 fouls a game though? In the summer league. That can't bode well for the regular season. Oden Jr.?

[whomario]

Wasn't Thabeet averaging like 5 fouls a game though? In the summer league. That can't bode well for the regular season. Oden Jr.?

For this upcoming regular season ? Surely not. But in 3 years he´ll be more than fine imo.
Maybe i´ll look like an idiot on this but that´s fine with me. Thabeet seems like a great kid with great work ethic who improved drastically every year in College and imo will do just that at the NBA Level.
Not saying the Grizzlies made the best choice here but Thabeet will be fine.
And as said : Watching him he made an impact, stats be what they are. I expect more of the same of him in the future.

While we are at it : I still see Oden as a potential DPOY with 18-20 Points thrown in, very interested in seeing him play this year. He got blindsided by the Refs and had trouble adjusting his game to that, but towards the end of the season he looked really spring physichally and produced at a good level.
MacMillan needs to involve him in a lot of Pick and Rolls, he´s shown great ability there.
Too bad Steve Blake can´t run it ...

[Gary Gorski]

What I don't like about Thabeet is that he appears to play with no heart. Everything I've heard about him is that he's really a nice guy and is going to help out his home country and stuff like that - but that just puts him in the Shawn Bradley category. I'll be surprised if he ever has more of an impact in the league than Bradley did.

Oden has just been crushed with injuries. At this point I think his ceiling is lower than what most people thought it would be simply because it's going to obviously be a challenge for him to stay healthy. It's too bad because again, seems like a nice guy and he certainly had a world of potential. If he can manage to stay healthy I think he will still have a very nice career but I just fear that he's going to fall into that chronically unreliable category of player - he's going to put up good numbers but you're going to hold your breath every game hoping he doesn't get hurt - kind of like Yao.

[whomario]

What I don't like about Thabeet is that he appears to play with no heart.

Don´t agree really. Sure he´s not running around screaming, but he´s definitely also not coasting in games or being indifferent. I mean, if you are a lanky 7´3 kid in College you aren´t going to look like Mark Madsen, but from what i saw in College and also in the summer league he definitely plays with heart and also isn´t discouraged easily. When a No2 pick plays terrible offensively and makes a lot of mistakes but still plays with effort every trip and defends hard than i am willing to cut him some slack. Really, Thabeet looked like he had 20/10 games in terms of how he was keeping up his efforte, that really impressed me.

For Oden "crushed with injuries" is not sth i would clame after 2 years of NBA play. If his knee holds up and has healed as supposed (and he did look pretty mobile, getting better there as the season went on too) i am not worried, not more than about any other player playing a competitive sport. Okay, maybe at least not more than about any other 260 pound guy playing basketball ;)
I mean, both those short term injuries last year aren´t really of much concern as both weren´t nescessarily his body breaking down (stepping on a guys foot and banging knees) .

But maybe i just got a heart for the Underdog and the injury plagued players ...

What is interesting is that apparently David Lee still has no offer on the table. Yeah, he´s propably not worth 8 digits but he´s a sure fire Double double with intesity every game, thought that would be worth sth in a sign and trade...

[RainMaker]

Wasn't Thabeet averaging like 5 fouls a game though? In the summer league. That can't bode well for the regular season. Oden Jr.?
I think it takes a couple years for centers to figure out how to play without getting into foul trouble. I remember Tyson Chandler here in Chicago always showed talent but just got into foul trouble too much. It wasn't until his last year in Chicago and first year in New Orleands before he really figured out how to stay out of foul trouble.

I wasn't a fan of the Thabeet pick, but considering Rubio may have given Memphis issues with his overseas team, I can understand why they passed on him. He'll never be an all-star, but he can be an NBA starter in the mold of a Marcus Camby with some more height. A guy who gets you 8 points, 11 rebounds, and 3 blocks a night. That isn't great for the #2 pick in most people's minds, but it's a relatively bad draft and I don't know what other options they had.

Just to toot my own horn, if you go back like 20 pages, I'm the one who said they would take Thabeet right after the lottery. :)

[Atocep]

Bobcats about to send Emeka Okafor to Hornets for Tyson Chandler - NBA - SI.com (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/basketball/nba/07/27/hornets.bobcats.ap/index.html)

Okafor for Chandler?

[Groundhog]

Dumb trade for Charlotte.

[Coffee Warlord]

Horrid trade for Charlotte.