Werewolf XXXVII: Middle-Earth - GAME ENDS. Who Won? Check it out!

[KWhit]

13 is needed at 5 people. 13 is also needed at 24. 12 would be needed with 23. Etc.

Hope that helps!


-Anxiety

Shouldn't that say 13 is needed at 25 people?

[Lathum]

UNVOTE DADDY TORGO
VOTE SPLEEN

trying to get something going here

[Blade6119]

I don't understand the reference to Saldana nor any reason for voting for me :)

Saldana was waiting to see who i was voting for, hence his connections. My reason for voting for you is relatively simple. Part of my role-playing, which schmidty was right i knew, was that it would bring criticism upon me. I looked forward to this, seeing who would jump at the chance to take a free day one kill to eliminate me. None pushed harder then you...maybe you really were concerned, but your playing very much like lathum did in the small game we are finishing now. You know what alignment lathum turned out to be

[Thomkal]

I would add Thomkal to the list of those who have been out of site and out of mind.

As I said in first post, I would be gone running errands during the day. And so just for not reading my post. :)

vote Grammaticus

[Mr. Wednesday]

VOTE Neuqua

I have no reason to prefer anybody, so I'd like to keep a run-off going.

[Alan T]

Saldana was waiting to see who i was voting for, hence his connections. My reason for voting for you is relatively simple. Part of my role-playing, which schmidty was right i knew, was that it would bring criticism upon me. I looked forward to this, seeing who would jump at the chance to take a free day one kill to eliminate me. None pushed harder then you...maybe you really were concerned, but your playing very much like lathum did in the small game we are finishing now. You know what alignment lathum turned out to be

Isn't it a little early to misrepresent what I said in the game? I am pretty sure everyone is able to read that I provided information about the Smeagol character from the books for those who were confused and explained a little bit about who it might be. I had plenty of chance to vote for you, and in fact stated I wouldn't be voting for you and would be voting for someone who didn't check in or checked in late.

Since I didn't push to vote for you, or lie about my intentions for my vote, your comment is patently untrue. Or is it just a little too uncomfortable for you that I know the role that you are acting as right now is definitly not on our side, and that while you aren't evil you aren't going to be helping us either?

[Lathum]

this may be a little OOC but I have a real problem with people voting for neuqua. The point of a run off is to see how people defend themselves. Neq has a serious real life issue and obviously can't defend himself. And even if he is a bad guy he will probably be cut loose at this point so we won't gain any info anyway.

IMO it's bad form to vote him.

[Thomkal]

I am of two minds when it comes to the vote tonight. Since I was the Day 1 wolf victim in the last game I was in, I feel for the people who get eliminated so early. So I wouldn't mind not having a majority today. But I realize voting records are very important, so we should probably get 1 or 2 people close to the magic number for lynch to see what happens.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Fair enough, but if he can't participate, then he needs to be replaced ASAP.

UNVOTE Neuqua

[Blade6119]

Isn't it a little early to misrepresent what I said in the game? I am pretty sure everyone is able to read that I provided information about the Smeagol character from the books for those who were confused and explained a little bit about who it might be. I had plenty of chance to vote for you, and in fact stated I wouldn't be voting for you and would be voting for someone who didn't check in or checked in late.

Since I didn't push to vote for you, or lie about my intentions for my vote, your comment is patently untrue. Or is it just a little too uncomfortable for you that I know the role that you are acting as right now is definitly not on our side, and that while you aren't evil you aren't going to be helping us either?

You dont know as much as you think alan, so be careful how you tread

[Blade6119]

Fair enough, but if he can't participate, then he needs to be replaced ASAP.

UNVOTE Neuqua

I KNOW Dodgerchick wants to play

[Alan T]

You dont know as much as you think alan, so be careful how you tread

I don't know much of anything, all I have done is explain the character in the book. Coming out day 1 saying things that aren't true likely will make me suspicious of you the entire game though.

Either you told a lie, or made a mistake. One you can correct, the other you can not :)

[Thomkal]

I couldn't agree more Lathum. The votes for Neuqua that came in after the post revealing his family emergency are in very poor taste. Let him survive the day at least, so if he has to drop out an alternate can come in.

[Lathum]

You dont know as much as you think alan, so be careful how you tread

oh snap!!

[SnDvls]

I couldn't agree more Lathum. The votes for Neuqua that came in after the post revealing his family emergency are in very poor taste. Let him survive the day at least, so if he has to drop out an alternate can come in.

"

Partly why my vote is where it is. new player or not the day is half over for me and no check in sorry, everyone gets a first vote at some point.

[Blade6119]

For those who never read the stories, or saw the movies there is a character named Smeagol who suffered from Dissociative identity disorder who had a second personality named Gollum. His disorder came about due to a traumatic experience as a younger hobbit where he killed his relative and best friend over a ring that "called to him".

I've been curious about Blade playing out a Dissociative identity disorder type personality so far this game since Gollum by no means was helpful or friendly in the stories. In fact, he was more of a hinderance than a help for the Fellowship. As is such often with things though, he did in fact play a big part in the final conquering of evil, but it was completely unintentional and driven off of his own greed.

My guess is most likely in a game like this while a Gollum character wouldn't be the main target for the good side to rid themselves of, he is definitly a type of character that we wouldn't want around. So I have been intrigued by Blade playing up such a character.

My initial guess is its either:

1) Blade playing a role to create some votes and keep from getting night killed

or

2) Blade playing an evil role but wanting to come out in a way that doesn't seem an evil role and thus through reverse psychology not get enough votes to be lynched due to appearing to try to get votes to be lynched.
This is the post i was drawing my claims from. In it, you imply im gollum, who was not a friend to the village. You assume i have multiple personalities, which i have not once implied or even hinted at. Then you give two options, while ignoring the true option. Blade got a role that strongly encouraged role-playing...blade is merely playing his role.

So as you lie about what i have said we go round and around

[Alan T]

I'll move my vote off of Neuqua then, but it will be to scoobz instead since he has not checked in. I mainly chose Neuqua since it is who Spleen has his vote on and Spleen seems to be one of the others in the "vote off" right now.

As I said, I didnt like voting for either of them, but since you all think I am tasteless and such, I'll change before the insults fly more. I've been friends with Neuqua for a while, and am praying for his family, I am sure he doesn't care at all right now about what I voted in a game for him. he has bigger things on his mind.

Either way I'll move my vote and still have him and his family in my thoughts.

[SnDvls]

"

Partly why my vote is where it is. new player or not the day is half over for me and no check in sorry, everyone gets a first vote at some point.

and actually re-reading his sign up it appears it might be a bullettsponge issue again.

he never really "joined" just expressed interest in joining.

[SnDvls]

dola - might need 2 replacement players

one due to RL issues and one due to never really signing up.

[Alan T]

This is the post i was drawing my claims from. In it, you imply im gollum, who was not a friend to the village. You assume i have multiple personalities, which i have not once implied or even hinted at. Then you give two options, while ignoring the true option. Blade got a role that strongly encouraged role-playing...blade is merely playing his role.

So as you lie about what i have said we go round and around

So you haven't been roleplaying that you have a Dissociative identity disorder? Since that is what that post implies.

If you have been roleplaying something else entirely then I will chalk it up as my roleplay ability sucks and I shouldn't bother reading any posts in roleplay.

In no way does option 1 in my post of what you might be doing seem like something bad for the village to me and in fact its what you have said you were doing..

You saying I pushed for your lynch is outright false though.

[Alan T]

Dola,

Since talking to yourself and getting in arguements with yourself is definite signs of a Dissociative identity disorder, I think you are BSing now Blade and distancing from your own roleplay from earlier.

I have no problem with the roleplay, I was simply providing analysis of it as best as I can.

[SnDvls]

"

Partly why my vote is where it is. new player or not the day is half over for me and no check in sorry, everyone gets a first vote at some point.

want to appoligize to scoobz if in fact he didn't truely know he was signed up for this comment. no offense intended.

[Alan T]

Double Dola,

Unvote Neuqua
Vote Scoobz0202

Since I am tasteless etc etc.

[LoneStarGirl]

I don't need to lighten up when it comes to the game. You can claim that something is "only role-playing", but if you do something like that, it's automatically going to get scrutinized. You know that.

And yeah, it was annoying. I wasn't telling you to stop. I was just being honest.

Agreed.

[Blade6119]

So you haven't been roleplaying that you have a Dissociative identity disorder? Since that is what that post implies.

If you have been roleplaying something else entirely then I will chalk it up as my roleplay ability sucks and I shouldn't bother reading any posts in roleplay.

In no way does option 1 in my post of what you might be doing seem like something bad for the village to me and in fact its what you have said you were doing..

You saying I pushed for your lynch is outright false though.

Pushing for my lynch and putting out comments that get others down the road that leads to my lynch are one and the same to me. If i said ALANS A WOLF, but didnt vote you, that wouldnt be pushing for your lynch by your standards.

Its a weak argument, im just saying...you were the one putting out the most ideas that made me look bad...that much is a fact.

[Lathum]

Alan- Please don't read to into what I am saying. It's kind of like the situation last game with Saldana being replaced. I would rather see the person get replaced and have the new player have a say rather then vote to lynch them right away.

[BrianD]

This is the post i was drawing my claims from. In it, you imply im gollum, who was not a friend to the village. You assume i have multiple personalities, which i have not once implied or even hinted at. Then you give two options, while ignoring the true option. Blade got a role that strongly encouraged role-playing...blade is merely playing his role.

So as you lie about what i have said we go round and around

It seems you have been talking to yourself at the very least, and multiple personalities seemed reasonable as well.

[SnDvls]

Double Dola,

Unvote Neuqua
Vote Scoobz0202

Since I am tasteless etc etc.


alan - no one said you were tasteless, chill. they said and I agreed it was in poor/bad taste. you can vote how you want it just didn't seem to be the right thing to do in his case. just like you said you don't like voting for a new player in their first game.

everyone needs to take a step back from the keyboard for a moment and take a deep breath...it's only day 1 and we're all getting too worked up.

[Blade6119]

It seems you have been talking to yourself at the very least, and multiple personalities seemed reasonable as well.

Brian gets it

[Blade6119]

Alan- Please don't read to into what I am saying. It's kind of like the situation last game with Saldana being replaced. I would rather see the person get replaced and have the new player have a say rather then vote to lynch them right away.

Last game though saldana said he had to step down..thats the only reason we did that

[Alan T]

Pushing for my lynch and putting out comments that get others down the road that leads to my lynch are one and the same to me. If i said ALANS A WOLF, but didnt vote you, that wouldnt be pushing for your lynch by your standards.

Its a weak argument, im just saying...you were the one putting out the most ideas that made me look bad...that much is a fact.

I can't help it that the only characters from J.R.R TOlkien's writings that came close to a Dissociative identity disorder were those who were affected by the ring and its alluring power and call. And those people were so drawn to it that they would often do unethical or selfish things in order to either obtain the ring or maintain holding on to it. (See Gollum with Deagol, Boromir with Frodo, Isildur, etc)

I have no problems with you roleplaying a role, but you have to be ready to take the heat that doing so will come with it. In your case the association to those type of people from the stories and how they behaved.

You know me well enough by now to know if I wanted to lynch you, I would be trying to give everyone every reason possible to do so right or wrong.

[LoneStarGirl]

Okay, I definitly think Neuqua needs to get replaced and a lynch needs to happen tonight. With that being said, i dont like having to lynch a new guy, but if he doesn't even know he's playing, what other choice do we have? Hell, we might get lucky like we did in the football game and lynch a wolf!

vote Scoobz

[Alan T]

alan - no one said you were tasteless, chill. they said and I agreed it was in poor/bad taste. you can vote how you want it just didn't seem to be the right thing to do in his case. just like you said you don't like voting for a new player in their first game.

everyone needs to take a step back from the keyboard for a moment and take a deep breath...it's only day 1 and we're all getting too worked up.

I am actually more worked up about Blade claiming I said things i didn't then this :)

I just don't like people throwing out insults in a game when they don't need to be. You don't have to like my play but insults really are immature is all. :)

I'm honestly not too worked up over it.

[saldana]

i dont think there is an issue with voting for neuqua....i doubt he gives a crap about WW right now, and voting for him would be no different than voting for me in the football game...a real life issue that makes it impossible to play gives a logical vote for it being day one....its not personal at all, and actually does the GM a favor by not making them look for a replacement.


with that said, i think we need to get to a lynch number tonight, so since the sentiment is not to vote for neuqua, i wont either....i am still holding onto mine to make sure it goes towards actually getting to 13.

as far as blade goes, crazy does not equal bad, as some people have alluded to...when i was insane in the asylum game, i had to change my vote the number of times equal to whatever day number it was...and even though i ended up killing a teammate when i tried to remove my tumor, i was a good guy throughout and would have been even more valuable had i succeeded.

based on my knowledge of LOTR, smeagol would never be in Bree, so the assumption that blade is playing the role of smeagol/gollum is inherently flawed...not to say that blade isnt batshit crazy, but IMO, there is no way he is Smeagol, which means we have no basis for his good/evil alignment at this point.

[LoneStarGirl]

Alant, you have more posts then almost everybody else in this game combined.

[Alan T]

Brian gets it

Brian is agreeing with me though. :) I don't understand why saying you have been roleplaying as if you have a Dissociative identity disorder, and linking it to applicable situations from this story line is pushing for your lynch though.

Worst case, if you are what i think you are I have bigger fish to fry right now than you but at some point I bet your usefulness will end.

Best case, you have a role with Dissociative identity disorder but is entirely unlinked from the story line and if so, my not voting for you today would be good as well.

[BrianD]

Brian gets it

I'm not sure I see a huge difference between the two states, but then I'm not sure I care either. :)

[Blade6119]

I can't help it that the only characters from J.R.R TOlkien's writings that came close to a Dissociative identity disorder were those who were affected by the ring and its alluring power and call. And those people were so drawn to it that they would often do unethical or selfish things in order to either obtain the ring or maintain holding on to it. (See Gollum with Deagol, Boromir with Frodo, Isildur, etc)

I have no problems with you roleplaying a role, but you have to be ready to take the heat that doing so will come with it. In your case the association to those type of people from the stories and how they behaved.

You know me well enough by now to know if I wanted to lynch you, I would be trying to give everyone every reason possible to do so right or wrong.

Not if your bad...you would let me get myself lynched...its too early in the game for wolves to be in the spotlight

You know me as well, im happy to take the heat. I role-played in part for the heat. At the same time, you have to expect me to defend myself. I didnt get mad when you accused me, when grammat did, etc. I got mad when schmidty and LSG started putting down my play style. Actually, they put me down becuase of my play style. You know me well enough to not expect me to defend myself. But i didnt vote them, just like you didnt vote me. I voted my top suspect, and went about playing the game

[Blade6119]

Alant, you have more posts then almost everybody else in this game combined.

How do you figure? hes at 31? im only like 4 back..

[Alan T]

i dont think there is an issue with voting for neuqua....i doubt he gives a crap about WW right now, and voting for him would be no different than voting for me in the football game...a real life issue that makes it impossible to play gives a logical vote for it being day one....its not personal at all, and actually does the GM a favor by not making them look for a replacement.


with that said, i think we need to get to a lynch number tonight, so since the sentiment is not to vote for neuqua, i wont either....i am still holding onto mine to make sure it goes towards actually getting to 13.

as far as blade goes, crazy does not equal bad, as some people have alluded to...when i was insane in the asylum game, i had to change my vote the number of times equal to whatever day number it was...and even though i ended up killing a teammate when i tried to remove my tumor, i was a good guy throughout and would have been even more valuable had i succeeded.

based on my knowledge of LOTR, smeagol would never be in Bree, so the assumption that blade is playing the role of smeagol/gollum is inherently flawed...not to say that blade isnt batshit crazy, but IMO, there is no way he is Smeagol, which means we have no basis for his good/evil alignment at this point.

In the story line Gollum did go to Bree a few times, it just never was during the times that the movies took place in. Gollum traveled anywhere he needed to in order to get his precious back (that included the Shire at times as well).

That said, I think Blade (and perhaps everyone else) is making too big of a deal over what my analysis was. I simply was explaining it for those who are not as aware of this "theme" to try to help. I'll stop trying to help if everyone doesn't want it.

[Blade6119]

not to say that blade isnt batshit crazy

This will be the only time i dont take offense to that comment

[Fouts]

Bring back the crazy blade who talks to himself!

[Alan T]

Not if your bad...you would let me get myself lynched...its too early in the game for wolves to be in the spotlight

You know me as well, im happy to take the heat. I role-played in part for the heat. At the same time, you have to expect me to defend myself. I didnt get mad when you accused me, when grammat did, etc. I got mad when schmidty and LSG started putting down my play style. Actually, they put me down becuase of my play style. You know me well enough to not expect me to defend myself. But i didnt vote them, just like you didnt vote me. I voted my top suspect, and went about playing the game

I have no problem with you voting your top suspect. You just gave reasons being I said things that I never did say. Thats probably more of a red light for people then anything I ever did say.

[Blade6119]

I have no problem with you voting your top suspect. You just gave reasons being I said things that I never did say. Thats probably more of a red light for people then anything I ever did say.
Kill me, i dont care...i just think you have, and continue to paint me as a role not on the side of the village which is as good as calling me a wolf. You say its not, but it is. Like i said, around and around

[BrianD]

Has anyone done any statistical analysis to see how often Blade and Alan have this fight in WW games?

[Fouts]

While I didn't see it in the rules, I'm going to assume that the villagers, rangers, and agents of dark are all hobbit, human or dwarf. Else we would be able to tell them on sight.

KWhit checked in, scoobz or nequa hasn't, so my vote is:

unvote KWhit

vote scoobz

[Alan T]

Kill me, i dont care...i just think you have, and continue to paint me as a role not on the side of the village which is as good as calling me a wolf. You say its not, but it is. Like i said, around and around

Go ahead and keep saying that I'm trying to get you lynched today :)


Has anyone done any statistical analysis to see how often Blade and Alan have this fight in WW games?

Blade would miss me if I wasn't in the game. I am the wind beneathe his wings.

[Grammaticus]

Bring back the crazy blade who talks to himself!

BRING BACK "SYBIL BLADE", BRING BACK "SYBIL BLADE", BRING BACK "SYBIL BLADE".
Pounding fists on table for effect.

[Fouts]

Has anyone done any statistical analysis to see how often Blade and Alan have this fight in WW games?

It used to be entertaining, but now its just a rehash of past fights.

[Blade6119]

It used to be entertaining, but now its just a rehash of past fights.

Hes just made i couldnt save him two nights in a row in the other game

[Schmidty]

Bring back the crazy blade who talks to himself!

Vote Fouts

[Alan T]

It used to be entertaining, but now its just a rehash of past fights.

Eh.. I've gotten used to it. I go into every game assuming at some point Blade will come out after me. I think it pained him last game to realize he and I were on the same team early on :)

[Grammaticus]

I'm going with the no show as that is probably the most detrimental thing to the village at this point.

UNVOTE DADDY TORGO

VOTE SCOOBZ

[Blade6119]

Eh.. I've gotten used to it. I go into every game assuming at some point Blade will come out after me. I think it pained him last game to realize he and I were on the same team early on :)

It pained me so badly i guarded 2 of the first 4 nights...i wish i could do it over and never guard you again!! :)

[Abe Sargent]

i dont think there is an issue with voting for neuqua....i doubt he gives a crap about WW right now, and voting for him would be no different than voting for me in the football game...a real life issue that makes it impossible to play gives a logical vote for it being day one....its not personal at all, and actually does the GM a favor by not making them look for a replacement.


with that said, i think we need to get to a lynch number tonight, so since the sentiment is not to vote for neuqua, i wont either....i am still holding onto mine to make sure it goes towards actually getting to 13.

as far as blade goes, crazy does not equal bad, as some people have alluded to...when i was insane in the asylum game, i had to change my vote the number of times equal to whatever day number it was...and even though i ended up killing a teammate when i tried to remove my tumor, i was a good guy throughout and would have been even more valuable had i succeeded.

based on my knowledge of LOTR, smeagol would never be in Bree, so the assumption that blade is playing the role of smeagol/gollum is inherently flawed...not to say that blade isnt batshit crazy, but IMO, there is no way he is Smeagol, which means we have no basis for his good/evil alignment at this point.




Watch the language. This is a family friendly game.

[saldana]

In the story line Gollum did go to Bree a few times, it just never was during the times that the movies took place in. Gollum traveled anywhere he needed to in order to get his precious back that included the Shire at times as well).

That said, I think Blade (and perhaps everyone else) is making too big of a deal over what my analysis was. I simply was explaining it for those who are not as aware of this "theme" to try to help. I'll stop trying to help if everyone doesn't want it.


first of all, there are several characters that are not evil in any way that may not have had dissociative disorders, but were certainly not of sound mind as you and I would view it

secondly and more importantly the bolded part above is absolutley fabricated, or at best a stretch of the imagination....when exactly did smeagol or gollum ever go to the shire....he lived under the mountains for 500 years by himself, and he wasnt originally from the shire either...the only reason he ever came out from under the mountain was because bilbo took the ring from him...

unless you give me some sort of source for this statement, i will be agreeing with blade that you are creating concepts in an effort to make him look bad, and my vote will be for you until a better candidate come along

[saldana]

Watch the language. This is a family friendly game.


sure, no problem, sorry about that, is one of the new players younger or something?

[Schmidty]

Watch the language. This is a family friendly game.

What language did he use that was so bad? Just curious, since I have one of the foulest "mouths" I know.

[saldana]

Go ahead and keep saying that I'm trying to get you lynched today :)


actually, i think that is what i am saying....you are essentially making up facts about canon in an effort to try and convince us that blade is smeagol/gollum....no one that has seen the movie would argue the merits of lynching him....hence, from where i am standing, you ARE trying to get blade lynched today.

[Abe Sargent]

sure, no problem, sorry about that, is one of the new players younger or something?

I can speak to that directly. Let's just say it was a concern.

[Alan T]

first of all, there are several characters that are not evil in any way that may not have had dissociative disorders, but were certainly not of sound mind as you and I would view it

secondly and more importantly the bolded part above is absolutley fabricated, or at best a stretch of the imagination....when exactly did smeagol or gollum ever go to the shire....he lived under the mountains for 500 years by himself, and he wasnt originally from the shire either...the only reason he ever came out from under the mountain was because bilbo took the ring from him...

unless you give me some sort of source for this statement, i will be agreeing with blade that you are creating concepts in an effort to make him look bad, and my vote will be for you until a better candidate come along

I gave a few examples of good people who ended up being corrupted by the ring which led to Dissociative disorders (such as Bilbo or even Frodo), so I don't understand how that is an example of me saying he must be bad. I wouldn't push for Frodo's death would I?

As for Gollumns travels, if you really want, here you go..

After Bilbo stole the ring from Gollum, Gollum searched high and low for "Baggins" Christopher Tolkien wrote that J.R.R's notes had him going from as far as the Dale Lands all the way West to the Shire or even all the way to Emyn Beraid. Gollum was captured by Sauron while in Mordor looking for Baggins, and eventually was released and later captured by Aragorn who found out the story of what Gollum had been up to. Aragorn gave Gollum to Gandalf who then turned him over to the Mirkwood Elves (Amon Thranduil) where he escaped during an Orc-Raid. He immediately took off west again back to the Shire and in particular Bag-End when he met up with the Fellowship ouotside of Khazad-dum and followed them from there. This is the point he joins in the movies.

I'm not sure why you are picking this fight though since I stated in the post that you quoted that in the movie storyline (LotR) he never was in Bree. He definitly went there though prior to the LotR in his searches for Bilbo.

[Alan T]

actually, i think that is what i am saying....you are essentially making up facts about canon in an effort to try and convince us that blade is smeagol/gollum....no one that has seen the movie would argue the merits of lynching him....hence, from where i am standing, you ARE trying to get blade lynched today.

See my below post. HoME series has details of Gollum's travels which are alluded to during LotR by Aragorn and Gandalf. I'm probably showing off how much of a geek I am, but if you want I can take a picture of my bookshelf in my living room. It has 6-7 Tom Clancy novels, 3-4 John Grisham books, various Networking books and about 30-34 J.R.R Tolkien books on it :)

[Izulde]

Someone's not here! That must mean they're in league with the Black Riders! Yes, yes, I'll put in for him, too.

*flexes his hairy toes as he puts his card in the box before going to find something good to eat*

VOTE SCOOBZ

[Blade6119]

I gave a few examples of good people who ended up being corrupted by the ring which led to Dissociative disorders (such as Bilbo or even Frodo), so I don't understand how that is an example of me saying he must be bad. I wouldn't push for Frodo's death would I?

As for Gollumns travels, if you really want, here you go..

After Bilbo stole the ring from Gollum, Gollum searched high and low for "Baggins" Christopher Tolkien wrote that J.R.R's notes had him going from as far as the Dale Lands all the way West to the Shire or even all the way to Emyn Beraid. Gollum was captured by Sauron while in Mordor looking for Baggins, and eventually was released and later captured by Aragorn who found out the story of what Gollum had been up to. Aragorn gave Gollum to Gandalf who then turned him over to the Mirkwood Elves (Amon Thranduil) where he escaped during an Orc-Raid. He immediately took off west again back to the Shire and in particular Bag-End when he met up with the Fellowship ouotside of Khazad-dum and followed them from there. This is the point he joins in the movies.

I'm not sure why you are picking this fight though since I stated in the post that you quoted that in the movie storyline (LotR) he never was in Bree. He definitly went there though prior to the LotR in his searches for Bilbo.

This story takes place after frodo comes through town though, a time in which if im not mistaken gollum was a prisoner in mordor.

[saldana]

I'm not sure why you are picking this fight though since I stated in the post that you quoted that in the movie storyline (LotR) he never was in Bree. He definitly went there though prior to the LotR in his searches for Bilbo.

a source for your information would be nice...as far as why i am picking this fight, i really am not...i am protecting the other players in this game that may not have the background in the story that i and apparently you have from what as far as i am concerned is a fabrication.

perhaps you could explain this....if gollum got all the way to bree, and then went back to the shire after he got away from the elves, how did he never find frodo or bilbo....they were the only bagginses there....also, how in the world did gollum ever meet up with the fellowship as they were about to enter Moria if he went to the shire....it took two weeks to get to moria from Rivendell, and takes about a while to get from Hobbiton to Rivendell... Moria and the Shire are no where near each other....you either have a bad source, or are making stuff up.

[saldana]

alan, i would love to continue this conversation later, but i have to give my two year old dinner... be back in a bit

as a place holder

vote scoobz

[Alan T]

This story takes place after frodo comes through town though, a time in which if im not mistaken gollum was a prisoner in mordor.

Gollum was technically a prisoner in Mirkwood and not Mordor at this time. But thats what I guess I am trying to say. I was giving information based on others in the stories that have the disorder, I don't understand why everyone says I am out to get you all. I actually found it quite intriguing and interesting.

My whole point the entire time is any where in the story when someone ended up with this disorder it was due to the ring's draw. I'm pretty sure this entire discussion is probably pretty boring for 85% of those in the game. I'm just suprised I am getting attacked for trying to give information.

[SnDvls]

could someone translate the above few posts into non LotR speek? thanks

[Alan T]

a source for your information would be nice...as far as why i am picking this fight, i really am not...i am protecting the other players in this game that may not have the background in the story that i and apparently you have from what as far as i am concerned is a fabrication.

perhaps you could explain this....if gollum got all the way to bree, and then went back to the shire after he got away from the elves, how did he never find frodo or bilbo....they were the only bagginses there....also, how in the world did gollum ever meet up with the fellowship as they were about to enter Moria if he went to the shire....it took two weeks to get to moria from Rivendell, and takes about a while to get from Hobbiton to Rivendell... Moria and the Shire are no where near each other....you either have a bad source, or are making stuff up.

I would have to find which of the HoME books it was, but if you have them its probably in the master index under Gollum. Its not the first 3-7 as that all is primarily the Lays of Beleriand.

As for Gollum's path, he was heading from Amon Thranduil (Sinda for House of Thranduil) which is located in the Northeast location of Mirkwood forest or near Dale and Erebor. The path he had to take from there to the shite is west through the misty mountains and the underground passages that he knew so well. It was there that he encountered the Fellowship. Christopher's writings stated that he was not expecting to meet them there (he had no knowledge that they would be there), and was headed to the Shire.

[Schmidty]

I'm just suprised I am getting attacked for trying to give information.

I'm not taking sides, but I agree with you. Actually, it doesn't suprise me, since people attack anything, and everything they can in WW.

Watch this:

I LOVE TOM BOMBADIL!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Alan T]

could someone translate the above few posts into non LotR speek? thanks

My best translation in as unbiased as I can be:

1) People were wondering what Blade was doing with his roleplay talking to himself
2) I gave examples of a Dissociative identity disorder from the books being Smeagol/Gollum.
3) Blade states my linking him to Smeagol will turn people against him and is an effort to try to get him lynched without knowing all of the facts.
4) I stated I wasn't trying to get Blade lynched but instead was trying to be helpful.

(Repeat 3-4 over 20 or so posts)

5) Saldana jumps in and says I'm making up stuff trying to get Blade lynched.
6) I give the explanation in the storyline of what Gollum did, and once again re-state that I was trying to give examples of the disorder as I later also mentioned Bilbo, Frodo, Boromir, Ilsidur all good guys having this disorder in the stories too
7) I tell the path of GOllum's travels and answer Saldana's rebuttle questions


Basically I'll re-state what I have said all along, I found Blade's roleplaying interesting and said what it made me think of. Blade (and to some extent Saldana) jumped out too sensitive for some reason even when I never pushed for any lynch and no one else even came out to try to lynch Blade from any of the explanations.

I have zero idea if anyone in this game even has a character from the books, I know that I dont. I just have no idea why Blade and Saldana are jumping so much so early unless I struck a nerve on something I said unintentionally.

[SnDvls]

My best translation in as unbiased as I can be:



sorry I was being a smart a** should have added a :D

on and schmidty to your comment

you s**k!!! j/k :D

[Blade6119]

My best translation in as unbiased as I can be:

1) People were wondering what Blade was doing with his roleplay talking to himself
2) I gave examples of a Dissociative identity disorder from the books being Smeagol/Gollum.
3) Blade states my linking him to Smeagol will turn people against him and is an effort to try to get him lynched without knowing all of the facts.
4) I stated I wasn't trying to get Blade lynched but instead was trying to be helpful.

(Repeat 3-4 over 20 or so posts)

5) Saldana jumps in and says I'm making up stuff trying to get Blade lynched.
6) I give the explanation in the storyline of what Gollum did, and once again re-state that I was trying to give examples of the disorder as I later also mentioned Bilbo, Frodo, Boromir, Ilsidur all good guys having this disorder in the stories too
7) I tell the path of GOllum's travels and answer Saldana's rebuttle questions


Basically I'll re-state what I have said all along, I found Blade's roleplaying interesting and said what it made me think of. Blade (and to some extent Saldana) jumped out too sensitive for some reason even when I never pushed for any lynch and no one else even came out to try to lynch Blade from any of the explanations.

I have zero idea if anyone in this game even has a character from the books, I know that I dont. I just have no idea why Blade and Saldana are jumping so much so early unless I struck a nerve on something I said unintentionally.

You have said, not once but repeatedly, you believe you know what role i have and it is not on the side of the village. Maybe you meant that to mean something other then im not good, but thats how i take it. That is the kind of comment people get lynched over, whether you meant it or not

[saldana]

I'm just suprised I am getting attacked for trying to give information.


i am not attacking you for trying to give information, i am attacking you for trying to give MIS-information

could someone translate the above few posts into non LotR speek? thanks

basically, i am saying that Alan is concocting portions of the story of Smeagol/Gollum in an effort to say that is the role that Blade is playing, and subsequently should be lynched, because Gollum is really only on his own side.


alan, i dont have the HoME books....my source is the Tolkein Companion by T.E.A. Tyler, which states the travels of gollum in search of bilbo and the ring carry him from one side of the Wilderland to the other....that would mean he never travels east of the Ford at Rivendell, as that is the defined boundary of Wilderland (the misty mountains and mirkwood make up the majority of the wilderlands)

[Alan T]

You have said, not once but repeatedly, you believe you know what role i have and it is not on the side of the village. Maybe you meant that to mean something other then im not good, but thats how i take it. That is the kind of comment people get lynched over, whether you meant it or not

I only came back and said that after you started saying misrepresentations of what I said. Like I said, when you started making up stuff pushing, it makes me more suspicious of why.

[LoneStarGirl]

I googled my person's name and nothing came up. so I guess thats means i'm made up.

[Alan T]

i am not attacking you for trying to give information, i am attacking you for trying to give MIS-information



basically, i am saying that Alan is concocting portions of the story of Smeagol/Gollum in an effort to say that is the role that Blade is playing, and subsequently should be lynched, because Gollum is really only on his own side.


alan, i dont have the HoME books....my source is the Tolkein Companion by T.E.A. Tyler, which states the travels of gollum in search of bilbo and the ring carry him from one side of the Wilderland to the other....that would mean he never travels east of the Ford at Rivendell, as that is the defined boundary of Wilderland (the misty mountains and mirkwood make up the majority of the wilderlands)

Rivendell is West of the misty mountains and mirkwood. Bree is also west of Rivendell, and its very obvious that Gollum traveled east of the Ford at Rivendell as he did so even in LotR for most of the story. You also can know that T.E.A. Tyler's information is not entirely complete as he is intimately familiar with the passages inside of Mordor from his time there.

[Blade6119]

I only came back and said that after you started saying misrepresentations of what I said. Like I said, when you started making up stuff pushing, it makes me more suspicious of why.

Post #148 is where you start the case about my potential role. I see no posts of mine before that that said i misinterpreted what you said. Unless im missing a post of mine, you started down the road long before i accused you of putting me in a bad light.

[Blade6119]

Rivendell is West of the misty mountains and mirkwood. Bree is also west of Rivendell, and its very obvious that Gollum traveled east of the Ford at Rivendell as he did so even in LotR for most of the story.
I dont have the knowledge about LOTR you do, but that didnt make sense to me. Bree is west of rivendell, which is west of the misty mountains, and the fact gollum went east from rivendell(the opposite direction of bree) makes what point?

[Alan T]

Post #148 is where you start the case about my potential role. I see no posts of mine before that that said i misinterpreted what you said. Unless im missing a post of mine, you started down the road long before i accused you of putting me in a bad light.

Sure, post 148 I even gave a reason that you could be a good guy on our side and why we wouldn't want to lynch you.

I also admit I have been refering to Gollum as an example of this disorder since he is the one most people are familiar with. I later listed several of the others mentioned with it (all of which were good people)

[Alan T]

I dont have the knowledge about LOTR you do, but that didnt make sense to me. Bree is west of rivendell, which is west of the misty mountains, and the fact gollum went east from rivendell(the opposite direction of bree) makes what point?

Saldana said his companion that he read stated that Gollum never went east of the Fords of Rivendell, but to me that means their map is messed up, since most of the story happened to the east of Rivendell.

[Blade6119]

Sure, post 148 I even gave a reason that you could be a good guy on our side and why we wouldn't want to lynch you.

I also admit I have been refering to Gollum as an example of this disorder since he is the one most people are familiar with. I later listed several of the others mentioned with it (all of which were good people)

Were not getting anywhere, so im going to cut this short. We both see things very differently, and only time will tell who was right.

[Alan T]

Were not getting anywhere, so im going to cut this short. We both see things very differently, and only time will tell who was right.

Fair enough. :)

[saldana]

Saldana said his companion that he read stated that Gollum never went east of the Fords of Rivendell, but to me that means their map is messed up, since most of the story happened to the east of Rivendell.

i got my easts and wests mixed up in my original post...i meant that the wilderlands western border is the ford (with bree and the shire both being futher west), and according to my book, gollum didnt leave the wilderlands. as far as the map i am using, its the one in the back of the Hobbit, and there is nothing wrong with it, simply my ability to define east versus west.

[Sublime 2]

Phew...my heads spinning from all of this...

Still no check-in, therefore:

Vote Scoobz

[saldana]

Were not getting anywhere, so im going to cut this short. We both see things very differently, and only time will tell who was right.

there are still some issues i have with some of the things alan is saying, but for now, i would agree that we are probably losing the general populace with our nerdisms, so i will let him go for now, but i will come back around to the problems i have with what he has been saying today later on.

[Alan T]

i got my easts and wests mixed up in my original post...i meant that the wilderlands western border is the ford (with bree and the shire both being futher west), and according to my book, gollum didnt leave the wilderlands. as far as the map i am using, its the one in the back of the Hobbit, and there is nothing wrong with it, simply my ability to define east versus west.

Either way though, that still isn't true. He was captured by Sauron and taken to Mordor while searching for Baggins. That much was detailed in the LotR directly. The full detail of the path you have to rely on Christopher's Tolkien's publishings after J.R.R's death in the HoME series, which some people don't take for canon, but I do.

I still don't understand why we have spent alot of day 1 though. If you truly are into Tolkien's writings and interested in more of this type of thing, I would be more than happy to give you some reccommended good readings after the game. One of my favorite books was called Unfinished Tales which was all a series of stories put out after J.R.R's death from just his notes.

I think for the purpose of the game, What I have said here probably stands.. I did say that Gollum was captured in mirkwood during the time of when we are playing. I also said that I don't even know if real characters are even in this game. I also don't know if the storyline is consistant with the books, or if we're in an alternate reality with just the same setting and characters and rough story line.

The entire time I found it interesting what Blade was roleplaying and stated what it made me think of. If that makes me evil, then I guess so be it. There was no mal-intents there. Just was trying to be helpful. The worst regret I have of this is that Blade probably won't roleplay anymore which I thought helped liven up the mood some. (Similar to how I like playing in games with Qwikshot).

[Mr. Wednesday]

I'm not taking sides, but I agree with you. Actually, it doesn't suprise me, since people attack anything, and everything they can in WW.

Watch this:

I LOVE TOM BOMBADIL!!!!!!!!!!!!
:mad: :mad: :mad:

VOTE Schmidty

;)

[Mr. Wednesday]

UNVOTE Schmidty

:)

[Alan T]

there are still some issues i have with some of the things alan is saying, but for now, i would agree that we are probably losing the general populace with our nerdisms, so i will let him go for now, but i will come back around to the problems i have with what he has been saying today later on.

If you really have problems, then lets dig into it now on day 1 before we get in deeper. I still am intrigued since I didn't figure people would argue with me posting stuff that Christopher Tolkien wrote, but I guess anything is possible in WW. Its all in HoME #6, 7 or 8, and if you don't believe me then so be it. You can argue things published by Christopher TOlkien aren't canon, or they aren't applicable to the story line, or whatever. But I love Tolkien's writings and spent a good bit of my youth growing up reading and re-reading them to the point of geekism.

[Mr. Wednesday]

I've got a problem with this whole pile on one person thing. We learn more by a two-person race than we do when there's only a single consensus candidate.

I'm fine with lynching Scoobz, but we seriously need to have at least a chance of putting some pressure on the forces of darkness.

VOTE spleen1015

[DaddyTorgo]

I can forgive Lathum for voting for me...I'm not going to turn around and pile back on him and try to incite that because I don't see any danger yet.

However I think (whoever) it was who said no lynch on day 1 might be a good idea may be right. I figure there's saruman's goons, sauron's goons, villagers, rangers...even if the 3 smaller groups are 2-3 people we're still WAYY against the odds of hitting one of them. Better to give people with special abilities the night to block things or view people rather than a reflective lynch right away on day 1.

just my initial thoughts, as i just got the computer fired up for the day.

[DaddyTorgo]

See my below post. HoME series has details of Gollum's travels which are alluded to during LotR by Aragorn and Gandalf. I'm probably showing off how much of a geek I am, but if you want I can take a picture of my bookshelf in my living room. It has 6-7 Tom Clancy novels, 3-4 John Grisham books, various Networking books and about 30-34 J.R.R Tolkien books on it :)

that's hot. i'm right there with ya.

[Alan T]

If you really have problems, then lets dig into it now on day 1 before we get in deeper. I still am intrigued since I didn't figure people would argue with me posting stuff that Christopher Tolkien wrote, but I guess anything is possible in WW. Its all in HoME #6, 7 or 8, and if you don't believe me then so be it. You can argue things published by Christopher TOlkien aren't canon, or they aren't applicable to the story line, or whatever. But I love Tolkien's writings and spent a good bit of my youth growing up reading and re-reading them to the point of geekism.

And one other comment Saldana, one thing I learned when I used to frequen Tolkien discussion newsgroup is most people have problems agreeing what is and is not canon. I choose to believe that the things in Tolkien's notes that Christopher later published are canon. As Tolkien created a universe, he didn't just write stories and those notes are how they all work together. Others argue that the things Christopher wrote have too much of his opinion in them and they can not be viewed as fact.

Like I said if you want to disagree about what is or isn't canon its fine there is not much I can argue with you on that. I just think you're arguing against something that was never my intent. (To come out and say Blade is bad we must lynch him).

Anyways if you have issues with me, lets hash these out now and get them out of the way.

[saldana]

I've got a problem with this whole pile on one person thing. We learn more by a two-person race than we do when there's only a single consensus candidate.

I'm fine with lynching Scoobz, but we seriously need to have at least a chance of putting some pressure on the forces of darkness.

VOTE spleen1015


i'm pretty sure that the pile on scoobz is based on the fact that he isnt actually playing, so we are just cutting the dead weight from the roster....

[Lathum]

If you really have problems, then lets dig into it now on day 1 before we get in deeper. I still am intrigued since I didn't figure people would argue with me posting stuff that Christopher Tolkien wrote, but I guess anything is possible in WW. Its all in HoME #6, 7 or 8, and if you don't believe me then so be it. You can argue things published by Christopher TOlkien aren't canon, or they aren't applicable to the story line, or whatever. But I love Tolkien's writings and spent a good bit of my youth growing up reading and re-reading them to the point of geekism.

A point no one is ready to dispute :D

[SnDvls]

Anxiety - if scoobz doesn't check in today and assuming neuqua doesn't have you put out feelers for subs? just in case anyone wants to move onto someone else.

[Jonathan Ezarik]

he lived under the mountains for 500 years by himself, and he wasnt originally from the shire either...

Wasn't Gollum originally a hobbit? I thought all hobbits came from the the Shire. Not that it really matters in all this.

UNVOTE KWhit
VOTE Scoobz

[Swaggs]

You have said, not once but repeatedly, you believe you know what role i have and it is not on the side of the village. Maybe you meant that to mean something other then im not good, but thats how i take it. That is the kind of comment people get lynched over, whether you meant it or not

Not to say that you are not, but I find it interesting that you haven't come out and said that you are on the side of light. Instead you are kind of attacking back at Alan.

[Swaggs]

Dola...

Unvote ntndeacon

Vote Scoobz

[SnDvls]

let me know if I have this right

scoobz has 10 votes now as the leader
several others have 1 or 2

with no votes from
Chief Rum
Daddy Torgo
BrianD
Scoobz
Neuqua
and Kwhit

is this what others show?

[BrianD]

I voted for Spleen before Alan, Blade and Saldana went on their tangent.

[BrianD]

dola,

Post 182

[Alan T]

Wasn't Gollum originally a hobbit? I thought all hobbits came from the the Shire. Not that it really matters in all this.

UNVOTE KWhit
VOTE Scoobz

He was originally a hobbit, however in his time there were hobbit populations that lived East of the misty mountains and west of Mirkwood (Gladden Fields). This is where Smeagol was originally from, along the Anduin river. He was not born and raised in the Shire like the Hobbits from the stories.

[DaddyTorgo]

Wasn't Gollum originally a hobbit? I thought all hobbits came from the the Shire. Not that it really matters in all this.

UNVOTE KWhit
VOTE Scoobz

A Hobbit (http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/../h/hobbits.html) of Stoor (http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/../s/stoors.html)-kind who lived on the banks of the Anduin (http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/../a/anduin.html) in the later Third Age (http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/../t/thirdage.html). His friend Déagol (http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/../d/deagol.html) came upon the One Ring (http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/../o/onering.html), but Sméagol murdered Déagol (http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/../d/deagol.html) and took the Ring (http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/../r/ring.html). He was eventually exiled by his people, and crept into the roots of the Misty Mountains (http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/../m/mistymountains.html), where he became the creature of the dark better known as Gollum (http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/../g/gollum.html).

[SnDvls]

oh man my vote tally is way off.

I went off someone's in post 202 and went from there...hold on a sec and I'll have a better one in a bit

[st.cronin]

geez, what a day 1

[DaddyTorgo]

and for those wondering about "stoor-kind"

One of the three ancient hobbit (http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/../h/hobbits.html)-kinds, the broadest and heaviest in build. They were the last of three branches of the hobbits to cross the Misty Mountains (http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/../m/mistymountains.html) into Eriador (http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/../e/eriador.html).



the other two types were fallohides and harfoots, with harfoots being the ancestors of third-age hobbits




*cough* thanks Encyclopedia of Arda...best 70 bucks I've ever spent *cough*

[DaddyTorgo]

VOTE NEUQUA

not convinced that we actually want to lynch one of the ones who hasn't checked in yet so i'll put in this placeholder vote for now, but if someone can convince me that Scoobz deserves to go for a reason other than whittling down numbers (and why would we want to lynch one of our own just for being quiet, with the odds against it being an evil) then go right ahead.

[SnDvls]

okay no votes from
Daddy Torgo
Scoobz
Neuqua
Kwhit

scoobz has 10 - SnDvls, AlanT,LSG,Fouts,Gram,Izuldu,Saldana,Sublime2, Jonathan, Swaggs

I'm working on the vote/unvote table now unless someone else has one quicker or handy.

[SnDvls]

VOTE NEUQUA

not convinced that we actually want to lynch one of the ones who hasn't checked in yet so i'll put in this placeholder vote for now, but if someone can convince me that Scoobz deserves to go for a reason other than whittling down numbers (and why would we want to lynch one of our own just for being quiet, with the odds against it being an evil) then go right ahead.

I'm pretty sure he doesn't know he's playing. he's posted once in here and it really isn't a "put me in I want to play" post.
it's a question and then the responses are you are in or you should join.

[SnDvls]

dola - not telling/pushing you to vote him either as I'm more than happy to have a replacement player take his spot tomorrow too.

[Alan T]

VOTE NEUQUA

not convinced that we actually want to lynch one of the ones who hasn't checked in yet so i'll put in this placeholder vote for now, but if someone can convince me that Scoobz deserves to go for a reason other than whittling down numbers (and why would we want to lynch one of our own just for being quiet, with the odds against it being an evil) then go right ahead.

Well its one thing to be quiet and another to not even show up.

On day1 accomplishing a few things is good for us:

1) Nail a bad guy (unlikely due to odds)
2) Have some voting pattern to look on for future days from the lynch
3) Try to not lynch someone that will be crucial to our win (ie: seer)

My arguement with lynching someone who has not checked in is that they still have the same bad odds of not being a bad guy, but at least we'll be lynching someone who isn't going to contribute anyways. If they are a good guy, they won't be night killed so will be dead weight the entire game for us.

The only bad thing with a pile on vote is that it does not provide us any voting patterns for future days and provides an easy out for bad guys to just throw a vote onto.

[SnDvls]

double dola - you do know you are voting for someone who hasn't check in though right?

[DaddyTorgo]

sorry SnDvls but you can add me to the list of those who have voted.

Like I've said, I fail to see the value in axeing someone for not participating completely, when the odds are just as good that it's someone good, as everyone is aware of the "evil likes to stay quiet" play by now...when someone hasn't checked in AT ALL it's just as likely that they're good but havn't realized we've started or been pulled away for something.

I doubt Neuqua is evil either, as he has a post in GD stating that his grandfather is seriously ill and in the hospital, so my vote for him is more of a vote AGAINST lynching Scoobz and putting a vote onto someone who isn't even close to the rope.

[saldana]

VOTE NEUQUA

not convinced that we actually want to lynch one of the ones who hasn't checked in yet so i'll put in this placeholder vote for now, but if someone can convince me that Scoobz deserves to go for a reason other than whittling down numbers (and why would we want to lynch one of our own just for being quiet, with the odds against it being an evil) then go right ahead.

this post is the definition of irony....

[Izulde]

I'd really say not to vote Nequea, DaddyTorgo. As others have pointed out, given the RL situation he's had come up, it's really wrong.

If you're going to vote a no-show, vote Scoobz.

[Alan T]

sorry SnDvls but you can add me to the list of those who have voted.

Like I've said, I fail to see the value in axeing someone for not participating completely, when the odds are just as good that it's someone good, as everyone is aware of the "evil likes to stay quiet" play by now...when someone hasn't checked in AT ALL it's just as likely that they're good but havn't realized we've started or been pulled away for something.

I doubt Neuqua is evil either, as he has a post in GD stating that his grandfather is seriously ill and in the hospital, so my vote for him is more of a vote AGAINST lynching Scoobz and putting a vote onto someone who isn't even close to the rope.

I have a feeling that you just skimmed the day 1 posts :)

[DaddyTorgo]

this post is the definition of irony....

as I've said...I don't want to go on the "didn't vote...bad bad person" list, so I'm voting for someone, but i'm voting for someone who is 9 votes away from even being TIED for the lead. basically it seems like scoobz needs 3 more votes to get lynched and I have no intention of being one of those 3 votes, but i also don't want to get the rap of "not voting" so I'm doing the "random day 1 vote" thing.

[SnDvls]

Daddy - go back and start reading at post #205...read that page

[DaddyTorgo]

I have a feeling that you just skimmed the day 1 posts :)

as a matter of fact that's true. what's the feeling behind voting scoobz as a no-show?

shouldn't we pick an active participant and wait for anxiety to pick replacements for the no-shows?


fine.

UNVOTE NEUQUA

[Grammaticus]

I have a feeling that you just skimmed the day 1 posts :)

Go back and read my link to wiki. It explains the basic mechanic of lynching and how "no-lynch" or "no-kill" is bad for the village.

[DaddyTorgo]

Daddy - go back and start reading at post #205...read that page


willdo

[SnDvls]

OOC: gotta give the little one a bath hopefully I'll be back on, but who knows.

[DaddyTorgo]

so basically scoobz cuz nequea is having a RL emergency and of the 3 he's the one you know least about?

[Alan T]

as a matter of fact that's true. what's the feeling behind voting scoobz as a no-show?

shouldn't we pick an active participant and wait for anxiety to pick replacements for the no-shows?


fine.

UNVOTE NEUQUA

What do you have to tell you that an active participant is any more or less likely to be a bad guy than an inactive participant?

The benefit in my mind of voting off inactive participants at the beginning is that an active bad guy will leave some voting trail and discussion trail to use later in the game. An active good guy will help participate in discussion, try to find bad guys and keep up with the game.

When there isn't anything else to go on, I'd rather vote off the dead wood or look for people who are UtR.

[Thomkal]

unvote gram
vote scoobz

[SnDvls]

so basically scoobz cuz nequea is having a RL emergency and of the 3 he's the one you know least about?

now read post #268

[DaddyTorgo]

What do you have to tell you that an active participant is any more or less likely to be a bad guy than an inactive participant?

The benefit in my mind of voting off inactive participants at the beginning is that an active bad guy will leave some voting trail and discussion trail to use later in the game. An active good guy will help participate in discussion, try to find bad guys and keep up with the game.

When there isn't anything else to go on, I'd rather vote off the dead wood or look for people who are UtR.

there's statistically nothing to say that active vs. inactive has anything to do with good vs. bad, that's true. But with guys like the 3 who havn't checked in, wouldn't it make more sense to wait for replacements who might actually leave a trail and focus on day 1 discussion or whatever?

[SnDvls]

WW games have interested me, but I never decided to try it out. This theme makes me want to try Werewolf out.

Would it be a hindrance on you guys if I were to play? I have read the sticky with the rules. I also read a couple games that were already played to get a feel, but obviously you can only learn so much from that.

for reference here's his one and only post

[SnDvls]

okay now it's really bath time

[Alan T]

there's statistically nothing to say that active vs. inactive has anything to do with good vs. bad, that's true. But with guys like the 3 who havn't checked in, wouldn't it make more sense to wait for replacements who might actually leave a trail and focus on day 1 discussion or whatever?

If we vote off someone that likely isn't even playing it basically means we dont lynch anyone who is going to hurt us, and we still have the same statistical possibility of getting a bad guy (as poor as it is). Like I said I would rather vote for a known bad guy if you know one. Since I don't personally know of any right now, I will just vote for the dead wood.

[DaddyTorgo]

alright. thanks for the summarizing guys. hopefully tomorrow with the day off I'll be able to keep up and provide the same type of summarizing for people who were working and all.

alright I can see the "he may not have really signed up or realized he signed up" argument. And it would give us one confirmed...something.

VOTE SCOOBZ0202

[Lathum]

unvote spleen

vote scoobz

not sure if we already have 13 but I'll vote to be sure

[KWhit]

I find it very odd that Blade and Saldana are attacking AlanT for pointing out that Blade's ramblings are reminicent of Gollum. Sheesh! We're all thinking it.

Having said that, though, it looks like it's gonna be scoobz in a runaway - which means he's probably a good guy. Ah well, better to lynch someone who's not really taking part in the discussion.

Vote Scoobz

[Mr. Wednesday]

i'm pretty sure that the pile on scoobz is based on the fact that he isnt actually playing, so we are just cutting the dead weight from the roster....
Hence, me having no problem with actually lynching the guy. What I have a big problem with is the lack of a second candidate drawing any votes -- many times, the second candidate is just another average person so we don't learn anything anyway, but if there is no second candidate we have a 0% chance of actually learning anything from this lynch.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Wasn't Gollum originally a hobbit? I thought all hobbits came from the the Shire. Not that it really matters in all this.
No, the hobbits originally came from farther east. The Shire Reckoning begins somewhere around the 1400's of the third age.

In fact, the Breeland hobbits are not from the Shire, rather they're settlers that never made it all the way west during the migration.

[BrianD]

To make sure we have the numbers:

Unvote Spleen
Vote Scoobz

[SnDvls]

Hence, me having no problem with actually lynching the guy. What I have a big problem with is the lack of a second candidate drawing any votes -- many times, the second candidate is just another average person so we don't learn anything anyway, but if there is no second candidate we have a 0% chance of actually learning anything from this lynch.

one good thing is hopefully our seer (not me this game so don't go killing me bad guys :) ) assuming we have one, which I'm sure we do will get a look at someone tonight.

there is always the no lynch option today since people feel we won't gather any info. and give Anxiety a chance to find a replacement and the new person a chance to jump in...right now a new player really won't have to read 6 pages to catch up just the writeup by Anxiety tonight and tomorrow.

[SnDvls]

we have 15 now

FYI

[BrianD]

one good thing is hopefully our seer (not me this game so don't go killing me bad guys :) ) assuming we have one, which I'm sure we do will get a look at someone tonight.

there is always the no lynch option today since people feel we won't gather any info. and give Anxiety a chance to find a replacement and the new person a chance to jump in...right now a new player really won't have to read 6 pages to catch up just the writeup by Anxiety tonight and tomorrow.

We may yet gather info from today's kill. We probably won't in the next day or two, but eventually we may find something coming out of today.

Since we need to kill someone today for no good reason, might as well make it somebody that prevents us from having to find a replacement.

[saldana]

I find it very odd that Blade and Saldana are attacking AlanT for pointing out that Blade's ramblings are reminicent of Gollum. Sheesh! We're all thinking it.

Having said that, though, it looks like it's gonna be scoobz in a runaway - which means he's probably a good guy. Ah well, better to lynch someone who's not really taking part in the discussion.

Vote Scoobz

i never said didnt find his ramblings reminscent of gollum....of course i did....what i had a problem with was Alan presenting as fact that his ramblings mean he IS Gollum, since as far as my knowledge of this world goes, Gollum was never anywhere near the shire in the past, and since we have a period when this game is taking place, i know gollum is no where near bree.

let me state for the record that i am not saying blade is necessarily a good guy...i am simply stating that in my opinion, there is no way he is the character of gollum.

as far as alan goes, i am not saying he is bad, but i do have a problem with some of the information he was giving out as facts today.

[Alan T]

i never said didnt find his ramblings reminscent of gollum....of course i did....what i had a problem with was Alan presenting as fact that his ramblings mean he IS Gollum, since as far as my knowledge of this world goes, Gollum was never anywhere near the shire in the past, and since we have a period when this game is taking place, i know gollum is no where near bree.

let me state for the record that i am not saying blade is necessarily a good guy...i am simply stating that in my opinion, there is no way he is the character of gollum.

as far as alan goes, i am not saying he is bad, but i do have a problem with some of the information he was giving out as facts today.

Its like you only read half of my posts. The same half that Blade read. I also equated the disorder to similar to the characters Boromir, Frodo, Bilbo, Ilsidur all showed symptoms of it at time, all directly due to the ring's influences.

Its pretty interesting how you take one tiny part of the information and then try to distort it all and make a huge overblown deal out of it all. I've stated for the record that I don't even know if Gollum is in this game, or if a character similar to him is in this game. You however have chosen to ignore that. You also ignored the part where I said in the story timeline Gollum couldn't be in Bree at this time. You have however tried to take what I have said and try to make me sound like I am leading a lynch mob for Blade here.

It sounds and feels like a pretty wolfish thing to do in my opinion, and pretty unlike you for day 1.

[Jonathan Ezarik]

Thanks to everyone with the info regarding Hobbit history. Goes to show how little Middle Earth history I know.

[DaddyTorgo]

deadline

[Abe Sargent]

Counting votes now. Post to come shortly.

[Abe Sargent]

As the sun marches across the sky, your discussion begins to center on the people who are not present. After all, if they cannot even show to demonstrate their innocence, haw can you not vote for them?

The grim task is decided, and Scoobz is the voted candidate. After receiving a majority of the votes, it is time to follow through with your decision.

This is where your assembled party falters. It is one thing to discuss the death of one of your own in the abstract, but it is quite another to carry it through. To actually kill someone for nothing other than suspicion? Can you bring yourself to do it?

Your pair off into groups and begin to scour the town for Scoobz. After a while, you find him meditating beside a reflective pool. Lilies of silver and purple frame his body as he breathes in regular, controlled breaths that seem to inflate and deflate his body.

You hesitate again. Is this the face of darkness? A person in calm solace? After all Bree has been through, can you hold it against this man that he chose to eschew your heavy task?

Scoobz speaks. He voice begins as if far away, but as he talks, gets closer and closer to actually being in his body. “Have you come so soon? I expected you later.” He opens his eyes and stares at you. “I will come willingly, though you know not what you do.”

With dignity, he arises. He scoffs at your attempts to bind him, and his look keeps you from wrapping his hands or feet. He walks with a triumphant gait. He takes his time, which you can certainly understand. After all, he has but a few minutes to live.

A hastily assembled gallows has been erected in the center of town, and all of the people have gathered around. As you begin to lead Scoobz to the gallows, he stops. “No, if you are to kill me, then allow me the dignity of dying as a man, not as a criminal.”

All of you are, at first, confused by his words, and one of you pushes Scoobz towards the gallows more forcefully. Scoobz responds, “Fine then, I will force your hand.”

With a quick dash, he grabs the sword off one of your belts. He brandishes it. It’s obvious that he’s never wielded a weapon before. Several of you react quickly, moving to strike with your own weapons. He never tries to defend himself, and never attacks. He allows several of you to cut him down, with multiple lethal wounds. His blood wets the ground in a sticky pool that seems to grow more quickly than you thought possible.

A smile is on his lips.

The act you have performed weighs heavily upon your shoulders. A few of you leave to discharge your dinner into various bushes. The group of you goes to Scoobz’s house, to find out what you can. Once there, you remember that he was one of your devout, saying regular prayers to Iluvatar.

However, you also discover works of sorcery and darkness. He was not just a normal townsfolk, but he was one of those fallen into shadow. However, you find nothing to connect him with any dark lord, such as Sauron.

You retire for the night, with victory lightening your stride.


Night has fallen. Night One has begun. All Night Actions are to be pm’ed to me by 3:30 am EST Tuesday Morning.



-Anxiety

[SnDvls]

gram - votes - ( daddy torgo ) - ( 124 ) - 1
chief rum - votes - ( spleen ) - ( 126 ) - 1
st. c - votes - ( sndvls ) - ( 128 ) - 1
Tyrith - votes - ( Kwhit ) - ( 132 ) - 1
ntn - votes - ( swaggs ) - ( 173 ) - 1
lathum - votes - ( daddy torgo ) - ( 179 ) - 2
spleen - votes - ( neuqua ) - ( 180 ) - 1
briand - votes - ( spleen ) - ( 182 ) - 2
swaggs - votes - ( ntn ) - ( 184 ) - 1
sndvls - votes - ( scobbz ) - ( 217 ) - 1
fouts - votes - ( Kwhit ) - ( 220 ) - 2
jonathan e - votes - ( Kwhit ) - ( 230 ) - 3
blade - votes - ( alanT ) - ( 233 ) - 1
alant - votes - ( neuqua ) - ( 248 ) - 2
lathum - unvotes - ( daddy torgo ) - ( 252 ) x - 1
lathum - votes - ( spleen ) - ( 252 ) - 3
thomkal - votes - ( gram ) - ( 254 ) - 1
mr. w - votes - ( neuqua ) - ( 255 ) - 3
mr. w - unvotes - ( neuqua ) - ( 259 ) x - 2
alant - unvotes - ( neuqua ) - ( 273 ) x - 1
alant - votes - ( scobbz ) - ( 273 ) - 2
lsg - votes - ( scobbz ) - ( 282 ) - 3
fouts - unvotes - ( Kwhit ) - ( 296 ) x - 2
fouts - votes - ( scobbz ) - ( 296 ) - 4
schmidty - votes - ( fouts ) - ( 301 ) - 1
gram - unvotes - ( daddy torgo ) - ( 303 ) x - 0
gram - votes - ( scobbz ) - ( 303 ) - 5
izuldu - votes - ( scobbz ) - ( 313 ) - 6
saldana - votes - ( scobbz ) - ( 316 ) - 7
sublime2 - votes - ( scobbz ) - ( 335 ) - 8
mr. w - votes - ( schmidty ) - ( 338 ) - 1
mr. w - unvotes - ( schmidty ) - ( 339 ) x - 0
mr. w - votes - ( spleen ) - ( 341 ) - 4
jonathan e - unvotes - ( Kwhit ) - ( 348 ) x - 1
jonathan e - votes - ( scobbz ) - ( 348 ) - 9
swaggs - unvotes - ( ntn ) - ( 350 ) x - 0
swaggs - votes - ( scobbz ) - ( 350 ) - 10
daddy torgo - votes - ( neuqua ) - ( 359 ) - 2
daddy torgo - unvotes - ( neuqua ) - ( 371 ) x - 1
thomkal - unvotes - ( gram ) - ( 377 ) x - 0
thomkal - votes - ( scobbz ) - ( 377 ) - 11
daddy torgo - votes - ( scobbz ) - ( 383 ) - 12
lathum - unvotes - ( spleen ) - ( 384 ) x - 3
lathum - votes - ( scobbz ) - ( 384 ) - 13
kwhit - votes - ( scobbz ) - ( 385 ) - 14
briand - unvotes - ( spleen ) - ( 388 ) x - 2
briand - votes - ( scobbz ) - ( 388 ) - 15

[SnDvls]

hell of a lucky first lynch...sucks for the bad guys :)

[BrianD]

Does that mean he was one of Saruman's?

[Alan T]

So it looks like we got lucky on day 1. Trying to understand what Anxiety posts, it looks like he was on Saruman's side or perhaps was Saruman himself.

Saruman for those who did not know came over as the greatest of the maia, he was the head of the white council (the leader of the wizards and in some ways Gandalf's greater). Saruman however was twisted to the dark side, his hunger for power and longing for it basically caused him to twist his desires for evil.

[Abe Sargent]

As an aside, I would never have allowed you to vote and spend a da voting for someone who may not have even signed up for the game. Scoobz responded to yesterday's pm and even asked me a question about his role. He was in this game.

-Anxiety

[Alan T]

Does that mean he was one of Saruman's?

From the description, the voice, his presence.. I think he was Saruman himself.

Saruman was most known for his commanding voice, and the power it held.

[DaddyTorgo]

"nothing to connect him to any dark lord" seems to me to indicate he was a good guy, although "fallen into shadow" ...maybe means just not a ranger or a "devout" but more of a "middleground" good-guy?

[BrianD]

Well, we walked away with a feeling of victory so he must have been a bad guy.

[ntndeacon]

I was thinking he was an independent bad guy with his own victory conditions.

[DaddyTorgo]

From the description, the voice, his presence.. I think he was Saruman himself.

Saruman was most known for his commanding voice, and the power it held.


but then you think we'd find SOMETHING indicating he was saruman.

although you're right...the voice...the smile as he dies, does remind me of Curumo.

[Alan T]

On Page 1, he was listed as Silvos the dark adept. Needless to say, that is a fake name too. So I am pretty convinced most people if not all have fake names in this game. THe description still leads me to think it was the Saruman type role, but guess only time will tell. Either way I think this was a huge kill for us today. Nice for luck to turn out on our side for once.

[Abe Sargent]

As much fun as it is to read your speculation, may I remind you that name, side, role title and faction are revealed upon death in the roster post.

[Alan T]

but then you think we'd find SOMETHING indicating he was saruman.

although you're right...the voice...the smile as he dies, does remind me of Curumo.

Curunir :)

[Alan T]

As much fun as it is to read your speculation, may I remind you that name, side, role title and faction are revealed upon death in the roster post.

I was madly hitting F5! :)

[Abe Sargent]

I'm out to get some late dinner. Be back later.

[DaddyTorgo]

Curunir :)


Curumo...the name in High Quenya of the Maia who came to Middle Earth as Saruman....Curunir was in Sindarin :D

[SnDvls]

5. Scoobz0202 - Lynched Day One. Silvos the Dark Adept, on the side of darkness.



for those that don't want to go to page #1

[Lorena]

I have seen a new level of geekdom

[DaddyTorgo]

I have seen a new level of geekdom

at least i'm not my friend who can speak Quenya (although I am jealous of her...but she's also a linguist)

[Jonathan Ezarik]

But is she cunning? (Sorry, I couldn't resist)

[Alan T]

Curumo...the name in High Quenya of the Maia who came to Middle Earth as Saruman....Curunir was in Sindarin :D

Guess I am not familiar with the name Curumo then! I know Olorin was Gandalf's name in the far west, but I don't remember Curumo off the top of my head. I guess I need a refresher too :)

[DaddyTorgo]

Guess I am not familiar with the name Curumo then! I know Olorin was Gandalf's name in the far west, but I don't remember Curumo off the top of my head. I guess I need a refresher too :)

that's okay. not like High Quenya is really....used by any except the Ainur. I'm telling you though man...as far as reference...the Encyclopedia of Arda is AMAZING. So helpful, and quite cannonical.

[saldana]

Its like you only read half of my posts. The same half that Blade read. I also equated the disorder to similar to the characters Boromir, Frodo, Bilbo, Ilsidur all showed symptoms of it at time, all directly due to the ring's influences.

Its pretty interesting how you take one tiny part of the information and then try to distort it all and make a huge overblown deal out of it all. I've stated for the record that I don't even know if Gollum is in this game, or if a character similar to him is in this game. You however have chosen to ignore that. You also ignored the part where I said in the story timeline Gollum couldn't be in Bree at this time. You have however tried to take what I have said and try to make me sound like I am leading a lynch mob for Blade here.

It sounds and feels like a pretty wolfish thing to do in my opinion, and pretty unlike you for day 1.

actually alan, this is the other issue i had with what you were saying all day....the draw of the ring and the lure of power that affected isuldur, boromir and bilbo were hardly the same as the affect that it had on Gollum. The affect the one ring had on Smeagol when he killed Deagol is the same as everyone else, but no one else had a completely second personality develop as a result of possessing the ring. it was always my understanding that the second personality was a result of his isolation for 500 years, and had nothing to actually do with the ring.....again, this is kind of a dork semantic argument, but what set my radar off was that you were giving out information as fact that there is no proof of.

[KWhit]

"nothing to connect him to any dark lord" seems to me to indicate he was a good guy, although "fallen into shadow" ...maybe means just not a ranger or a "devout" but more of a "middleground" good-guy?

Kind of an evil middle-manager?

[LoneStarGirl]

Ok, I thought we didn't have to know any LOTR to play this game. I haven't seen any of the movies, or read any of the books and I am feeling so very lost.

[LoneStarGirl]

And this is the second time in as many games that we have killed a bad guy the first night. How lucky can you get? And if he messaged anxiety with a question about the game, i wonder why he never checked in?

[DaddyTorgo]

Ok, I thought we didn't have to know any LOTR to play this game. I haven't seen any of the movies, or read any of the books and I am feeling so very lost.

you don't need to LSG. we're just delving into geekdom. but at heart you can still play it like a WW game, evaluate people based on voting history and statements and who they finger.

[DaddyTorgo]

Kind of an evil middle-manager?


Yeah umm...I'm going to have to go ahead and ask you to come in on Saturday...

[Abe Sargent]

Ok, I thought we didn't have to know any LOTR to play this game. I haven't seen any of the movies, or read any of the books and I am feeling so very lost.


This is an important point and I wanted to address it officially. You don't. Some people are free to get their geek on as much as they want, but if I say you don't need to know ME through the books or movies, then I won't be bringing up obscure History of Middle Earth, Unfinished Tales and Silmarillion references in a game that takes place in Bree.

-Anxiety

[Alan T]

actually alan, this is the other issue i had with what you were saying all day....the draw of the ring and the lure of power that affected isuldur, boromir and bilbo were hardly the same as the affect that it had on Gollum. The affect the one ring had on Smeagol when he killed Deagol is the same as everyone else, but no one else had a completely second personality develop as a result of possessing the ring. it was always my understanding that the second personality was a result of his isolation for 500 years, and had nothing to actually do with the ring.....again, this is kind of a dork semantic argument, but what set my radar off was that you were giving out information as fact that there is no proof of.

Most of it is due to Gollum actually posessing the ring for far longer than any of the rest of them, or at least being near it and craving it longer. His mind just couldn't handle it and it eventually corrupted him.

You only saw mild cases of Boromir and Ilsidur allowing the ring to influence their decisions, however Bilbo very clearly started to exhibit symptoms of it in his later years. If Bilbo had not had a retreat to escape to, it possibly would have driven him mad as well.

Gandalf and Galadriel both talk at times about the power of the ring as well. Both perhaps are two of the strongest willed people in the entire stories felt that they would try to do things for good, try to do things for the right reason, but the ring would change who they were and would affect them in the same way.

[Grammaticus]

And this is the second time in as many games that we have killed a bad guy the first night. How lucky can you get? And if he messaged anxiety with a question about the game, i wonder why he never checked in?

It could have been play style. It is surprising how many people get away from votes by not showing up early in the game.

[Glengoyne]

Okay, here's a new rule. As of right now, I am banning people who are not playing from posting a vote. If you are not one of the 25 select, I don't want you posting bold votes for people. I've got 25 people to keep track of, and I don't want to accidentally include one of your votes and whatnot.


-Anxiety

Sorry 'bout that. I thought about undoing it, but then it wouldn't be funny . I should have thought again, and I'm sorry I didn't check back until now. I knew better..enough to apologize.

[Abe Sargent]

No prob Glengoyne

[Schmidty]

Well, we walked away with a feeling of victory so he must have been a bad guy.

That's the way I feel.

But feelings are fleeting.

[Fouts]

Nice result on scoobz. I think voting for quiet people makes sense as it forces people to get involved in the game.

[Grammaticus]

Here is a little treat from way back. Spock meets Bilbo Baggins, a little hobbit with a heart of gold.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XC73PHdQX04&mode=related&search=

[Izulde]

If I remember correctly, Gandulf pointed out that the ring would corrupt even him, which is why he didn't take it himself.

[Tyrith]

Observations from today, as I was gone most of the day:

- (OOC) We really need to make sure that people that have "signed up" for games have ACTUALLY signed up for games. Maybe making everyone respond to their role PM to verify? This is getting a little silly; it takes any drama out of day 1 when we have to kill people that aren't here.

-This is the reason why I'm not an advocate of a day one lynch here...even though he was bad, what do you want to think that around vote six or so the bad guys started filtering in, seeing the writing on the wall? Someday someone is going to make something out of these votes and that is very dangerous -- they don't really mean anything since Day 1 has no context.

-I don't like the way Alan is going. I know he really, really loves LotR, but having him always directing traffic is out and out dangerous for us. Alan, I know you pulled the psycho scheme last game, and the fact that it worked means you might try to keep pulling it off so eventually you could hide a bad guy role in it. You're on notice.

[Tyrith]

With all the talking about LotR, let me just say this. It's fun. I love LotR a lot too, it's really cool to talk about. However, Anxiety says we don't need to know the stuff for the game, and I trust that we're not going to divine some great secret by talking about the canon. So while I appreciate the enthusiasm we might have, any future attempts to take the outside LotR canon into play, besides insanely obvious stuff, is going to be met by me with extreme suspicion.

[Chief Rum]

Here is a little treat from way back. Spock meets Bilbo Baggins, a little hobbit with a heart of gold.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XC73PHdQX04&mode=related&search=

Umm...wow. I am speechless. And strangely enough, if I saw it correctly, he was the only one in that who didn't have pointy ears.

[Grammaticus]

Umm...wow. I am speechless. And strangely enough, if I saw it correctly, he was the only one in that who didn't have pointy ears.

Freakish

[Chief Rum]

So what is there to take from this?

You might suggest that anyone who didn't vote for scoobz must have been on his side, but I voted for spleen, and I am just a simple hobbit. So clearly we have plenty of baddies hiding in this runaway vote (which is why we try to get two candidates, of course, much the shame we didn't).

On today's little interplay between Alan and Blade and saldana. I think Blade was just being defensive. He is quick to leap to the persecuted act in these games when he feels he might be spotlighted, regardless of his allegiance. So I don't make much of him making a big deal of Alan's posts.

But the fact of the matter is that Alan's posts were essentially informational and provided a number of different perspectives and analyses to take from Blade's roleplay. I didn't get any sense of any bias or suggestion in them whatsoever.

So the over-the-top reactions of Blade and saldana are extremely suspicious to me. I can excuse Blade there (for now), but I can't excuse saldana. I think he went well beyond any reasonable level of post analysis to a level of paranoia I think was very likely fabricated. I think he may have reason to have pushed for this little controversy. To what end, I don't yet know, but it is very suspicious. Overreactions always make me suspicious in this game.

The one thing in saldana's favor is that I recall a similar argument between him and GoldenEagle early in the Tombstone game and they were both good there. So maybe it's just a little zealous over-analysis by saldana. But for lack of better candidates, he's on my short list right now.

[Grammaticus]

Observations from today, as I was gone most of the day:

- (OOC) We really need to make sure that people that have "signed up" for games have ACTUALLY signed up for games. Maybe making everyone respond to their role PM to verify? This is getting a little silly; it takes any drama out of day 1 when we have to kill people that aren't here.

-This is the reason why I'm not an advocate of a day one lynch here...even though he was bad, what do you want to think that around vote six or so the bad guys started filtering in, seeing the writing on the wall? Someday someone is going to make something out of these votes and that is very dangerous -- they don't really mean anything since Day 1 has no context.

-I don't like the way Alan is going. I know he really, really loves LotR, but having him always directing traffic is out and out dangerous for us. Alan, I know you pulled the psycho scheme last game, and the fact that it worked means you might try to keep pulling it off so eventually you could hide a bad guy role in it. You're on notice.

I'm not sure you are quite caught up yet. As Anxiety posted, Scoobz did respond to his role PM and asked a question about his role. He was playing.

The pile on at vote 6 or whatever comment does not make sense. It took 13 votes to lynch yesterday. Scoobz did not have number 13 until 58 minutes to deadline. By not showing up he almost did escape a lynch. And we nailed a bad guy by lynching on day one. That would not have happened if we chose not to lynch. Yes it is a small chance to hit, but it is the only way we nail bad guys and the reason we have the numbers as the uninformed majority.

[Grammaticus]

So what is there to take from this?

You might suggest that anyone who didn't vote for scoobz must have been on his side, but I voted for spleen, and I am just a simple hobbit. So clearly we have plenty of baddies hiding in this runaway vote (which is why we try to get two candidates, of course, much the shame we didn't).

On today's little interplay between Alan and Blade and saldana. I think Blade was just being defensive. He is quick to leap to the persecuted act in these games when he feels he might be spotlighted, regardless of his allegiance. So I don't make much of him making a big deal of Alan's posts.

But the fact of the matter is that Alan's posts were essentially informational and provided a number of different perspectives and analyses to take from Blade's roleplay. I didn't get any sense of any bias or suggestion in them whatsoever.

So the over-the-top reactions of Blade and saldana are extremely suspicious to me. I can excuse Blade there (for now), but I can't excuse saldana. I think he went well beyond any reasonable level of post analysis to a level of paranoia I think was very likely fabricated. I think he may have reason to have pushed for this little controversy. To what end, I don't yet know, but it is very suspicious. Overreactions always make me suspicious in this game.

The one thing in saldana's favor is that I recall a similar argument between him and GoldenEagle early in the Tombstone game and they were both good there. So maybe it's just a little zealous over-analysis by saldana. But for lack of better candidates, he's on my short list right now.

Don't forget there are 2 bad factions. So Sauron's minions could have just as easily been moving to lynch Scoobz without truely "hiding" as they knew he was not one of them.

On the over reaction. Not sure, but it could be a fabricated altercation in order to defuse night action suspicion. Basically Saldana could have pushed back to make a scene so the dark side would have a motive to avoid him as a night kill target.

[Tyrith]

I'm not sure you are quite caught up yet. As Anxiety posted, Scoobz did respond to his role PM and asked a question about his role. He was playing.

The pile on at vote 6 or whatever comment does not make sense. It took 13 votes to lynch yesterday. Scoobz did not have number 13 until 58 minutes to deadline. By not showing up he almost did escape a lynch. And we nailed a bad guy by lynching on day one. That would not have happened if we chose not to lynch. Yes it is a small chance to hit, but it is the only way we nail bad guys and the reason we have the numbers as the uninformed majority.

And statistically we could have just as easily, if not more easily, got a good guy, beacuse they can shift votes in manners we can't detect -- by strategically not showing up, for instance. And yes, Ididn't read everything, I apologize, but the thought was brought up throughout the day. I can see the argument for lynchings on day one, and a lot of the time it's a good idea, but to think that we absolutely must be killing people every day even if we have no freaking clue what we're doing seems insane to me.

[Grammaticus]

And statistically we could have just as easily, if not more easily, got a good guy, beacuse they can shift votes in manners we can't detect -- by strategically not showing up, for instance. And yes, Ididn't read everything, I apologize, but the thought was brought up throughout the day. I can see the argument for lynchings on day one, and a lot of the time it's a good idea, but to think that we absolutely must be killing people every day even if we have no freaking clue what we're doing seems insane to me.

But statistically the good guys have a better chance of winning the overall game by lynching on day one, etc. You are not trying to win the day, you are trying to win the game.

I know it is hard to make the call and things can go wrong. But one thing is for sure, the bad guys will not target one of their own for the night kill.

[Abe Sargent]

Dawn breaks, and with it comes the gloom of another fog filled day, as the mist from the Barrow Downs lingers over Bree. Your rise from the morning with a continued extra spring in your walk, as the events of yesterday still fill you with a sense of justice.

Morning continues like any morning. You have your breakfast, and head out to the center of the town where you are supposed to meet. Shops are open, innkeepers sweep away last night’s revelry, and you think you can sense the air lightening. Surely it can’t be long until the darkness is completely eradicated from your fair town.

Someone notices that the local herbalists, the Mortar and Pestle, is not open. Where is Imelda Francis, the herbalist? She always opens her store on time. She is not at the gathering either. Curious, you knock on her door, to no avail. Several of you have gathered, all wondering what has happened.

The door is not locked, and one of you dares entry. The door opens well enough, and you detect the shoeprints of wet shoes coming out of the store. Imelda must have walked out for the day, leaving early! You sigh a sigh of relief but wonder why she didn’t lock the door.

The group of you almost turns and walks away from the Mortar and Pestle, but one of you wonders out loud. “Why is the door not locked?” Another points out that these footprints are too big for Imelda’s.

With dread in your heart, you burst back into the shop and head for her personal room at the back, where her cot and room are. Upon opening the door, you smell the odor of death. Looking down, her body has been mercilessly stabbed over and over. One of you puts a blanket over her body.

You note that someone washed off the blood in the washbasin, and then walk out. Curiously, you look around but no one has wet hands. Imelda looks dead for several hours, so whoever was here would have had time to dry off.

The new day begins, and with it, shattered hearts as one of your own has died an ugly death.



Fouts has been found dead. Day Two begins and will end at 10:00 pm EST Tuesday.



-Anxiety

[Alan T]

Observations from today, as I was gone most of the day:

- (OOC) We really need to make sure that people that have "signed up" for games have ACTUALLY signed up for games. Maybe making everyone respond to their role PM to verify? This is getting a little silly; it takes any drama out of day 1 when we have to kill people that aren't here.

-This is the reason why I'm not an advocate of a day one lynch here...even though he was bad, what do you want to think that around vote six or so the bad guys started filtering in, seeing the writing on the wall? Someday someone is going to make something out of these votes and that is very dangerous -- they don't really mean anything since Day 1 has no context.

-I don't like the way Alan is going. I know he really, really loves LotR, but having him always directing traffic is out and out dangerous for us. Alan, I know you pulled the psycho scheme last game, and the fact that it worked means you might try to keep pulling it off so eventually you could hide a bad guy role in it. You're on notice.

Tyrith, I'm not sure how you can say that I am on notice. The other game I tried a style where I came out non stop attacking and pushing people for a vote. I haven't even done that here. I was the one attacked, and simply defended myself. Good grief.

[Chief Rum]

I will be out all day (working both jobs), so I have to get my vote in here.

Nothing has really come forth from the night actions yet, other than poor Fouts' death, of course, so I don't have much to go on.

I will stick with my reasoning from last night and follow up on suspicions, for lack of a better candidate. I am sure someone will emerge today, but I unfortunately won't be around to change my vote. So hopefully my suspicions are correct.

VOTE SALDANA

[KWhit]

I tend to agree with you Chief. Saldana's and Blade's reaction to Alan's posts was over the top and suspicious. If lynch were right now, I'd vote for one of them. Hopefully, we'll learn more today.

[Lathum]

I'm not ready to vote anyone yet until we gain info from last night if any.

[Lathum]

dola-
FWIW Saldana's reaction is pretty much spot on with his personality in real life so I'm not ready to string him up yet.

This is by no means an endorsmant for him I just wasn't as surprised about his reaction as the rest of you, having been on the receiving end of it many times :)

[Alan T]

For whatever its worth, Blade never trusts me in games and I wouldn't be suprised if he thought I was up to some ploy with him. I don't find Blade's response to uncharacteristic for me at all in most games that I am in with him.

He was completely and utterly wrong about my intent, and when he attacked me, I had to defend myself, but reading back its not too uncharacteristic of him.

Saldana was a bit suprising for me, and I'm not quite sure what to make of it. There are definite disagreements in the "Tolkien geek community" about what is and isn't canon, and many people don't feel the things that I do are canon. My problem isn't as much with that as he seemed to jump and try to take pot shots at every little point and distort most every point possible with me yesterday, even when there was no basis to it. He either didn't read my points or ignored my points in many cases accusing me of things that were the exact opposite of what I said.

I guess the biggest reason I don't jump out on the Saldana bandwagon yet is I haven't figured out the motive. I'm trying to figure out what he was trying to accomplish with the attacks. Part of me thinks he is just really into Tolkien too and doesn't believe in Christopher TOlkien's publications the same way that I do (which is something very heatedly argued online even among Tolkien geeks).

The only frustrating thing is how people keep coming out accusing me of things that are actually the exact opposite of what I said. Like Tyrith this morning coming out and saying I'm playing my psycho game like I did in Resident Evil... where in fact its been the opposite and I've been on the defensive the entire time.

[st.cronin]

I completely agree with 99% of saldana's take yesterday. I just wasn't around to post it. So, put me on your list as well, CR.

[Lathum]

I completely agree with 99% of saldana's take yesterday. I just wasn't around to post it. So, put me on your list as well, CR.

I'm confused. CR voted for Saldana?

[Grammaticus]

I completely agree with 99% of saldana's take yesterday. I just wasn't around to post it. So, put me on your list as well, CR.

Are you saying that you agree with Saldana that AlanT was attacking Blade and CR should condider you suspicious too or are you saying you agree with CR that Saldana was over reacting and on the offensive?

Also, what is the herbalist, that is what Fouts was listed as on his role?

[Alan T]

I was wondering about the Herbalist role myself. In normal WW games, the herbalist is the bodyguard role I believe.. I'm wondering if it is here as well, or if it is more of a specialized role for the theme. Perhaps here the herbalist could do something with kingsfoil (Athelas) to help people out.

Not sure how Athelas would help a good person though in a game where the night kill is instant, unless there are people with some kind of poison or time-delayed death attacks, and the herbalist being dead means there is no remedy any longer.

[Lathum]

I think the herbalist is a vanilla role. I assume since we live in a town I assume we all have some sort of occupation and role.

I think those of you with knowldege of LOTR may be reading into things to much...

[Alan T]

I think the herbalist is a vanilla role. I assume since we live in a town I assume we all have some sort of occupation and role.

I think those of you with knowldege of LOTR may be reading into things to much...

I probably have been reading too much into things, if i had stayed quiet I wouldn't be under the barrage of attacks now. Maybe I am hurting things more than helping by showing off my love for Tolkien's writings.

Its just hard to describe a passion without appearing fanatical I guess. Some people get carried away over Star Wars or who knows what. Middle-earth was my "fantasy" as a child growing up. I still have my original paperbacks (now falling apart and partially missing covers) from 1968 even. Growing up, my father didn't really spend much time with me.. was always too busy with work to come to my baseball or football games. The only thing he ever did with me was read and talk about Tolkien's world.

I'll take a step back I suppose though since its causing more problems than its worth.

[Lathum]

AlanT- I'm not so sure you are "muddying" things up but since it was clearly stated you could play this game without knowledge of LOTR so I would be shocked if there were mechanisms in the game that were specific to knowledge of the story.

[BrianD]

Any thoughts on why Fouts was killed last night? Just someone knocking out a good player, or were there other reasons?

[Blade6119]

For whatever its worth, Blade never trusts me in games and I wouldn't be suprised if he thought I was up to some ploy with him. I don't find Blade's response to uncharacteristic for me at all in most games that I am in with him.

He was completely and utterly wrong about my intent, and when he attacked me, I had to defend myself, but reading back its not too uncharacteristic of him.

Two things...you keep saying i never trust you, but last game you and i were best friends. So i take that to mean your still trying to discredit my opinion.

Secondly, i never attacked you. I said you were trying to make me look bad, which you are doing even now with this quoted part. If you think that was me attacking, or that you think your always my top suspect, you have never seen me go to extremes. I was not mad at all yesterday, and you are not even close to always being on my suspect list. Hoops and barkeep are...your not...sorry, but i really dont like how you keep saying things that flat out arent true

[Tyrith]

Alan, it isn't as much that I think you're going psycho again, but that you've proven you're capable of surviving doing very wolfish things sometimes. I just don't want this to turn into something like RE where you're in the driver's seat for several days and we can't figure out where we stand. And yes, I didn't read yesterday as close as I should have, sorry.

[Tyrith]

Any thoughts on why Fouts was killed last night? Just someone knocking out a good player, or were there other reasons?

First instinct is that it's just another kill a solid player who probably won't be guarded, small chance he could be scanned plays. They couldn't kill anyone out of the alan/saldana/blade trio unless they're all good because we're just looking for excuses to come down on them...the only way they could ever have done that is if all three of them are good and they wanted us to kill our own active players. Beyond that, who knows?

[spleen1015]

I find it funny that we're playing a game where it is the good guys' job to figure out who the bad guys are and it is the bad guys' job to not let that happen and folks are getting irritated with each other over those things.

[Tyrith]

I find it funny that we're playing a game where it is the good guys' job to figure out who the bad guys are and it is the bad guys' job to not let that happen and folks are getting irritated with each other over those things.

I HATE YOU! GO AWAY!

...yeah, that is pretty funny :)

[Grammaticus]

Anxiety,

Any word on what we are going to do about Neuqua? Basically is he going to be replaced or not. If not, then we know it is up to us to determine in game. If he is, then can it be done today so as not to hold a position over multiple days?

Might be that you are in the process of figuring that out now, but just thought I would ask.

[Thomkal]

Apologies all, I've been dealing with a balky AOL connection all morning, and just was able to get on a few minutes ago. I will likely post sporadically this afternoon as I get caught up on stuff here and elsewhere.

I did want to say that this whole Alan vs Blade thing sounds like two fellow villagers just arguing with each other to me.

[BrianD]

Apologies all, I've been dealing with a balky AOL connection all morning, and just was able to get on a few minutes ago. I will likely post sporadically this afternoon as I get caught up on stuff here and elsewhere.

I did want to say that this whole Alan vs Blade thing sounds like two fellow villagers just arguing with each other to me.

Well, I'd say it sounds like Alan and Blade arguing with each other since they seem to do this as any combination of roles. :)

[Schmidty]

I still think it's interesting that AlanT seems to be having a bit of innocent fun with the LotR history/flavor in this game, and that certain people are absolutely lambasting him over it.

Sometimes I wonder if the people arguing with each other the most, while at the same time not pushing a lynch on the other person, are actually riffing off of each other from the same side.

That sentence made absolutely no sense. But I know what I meant, damnit.

[Jonathan Ezarik]

I, for one, am sorry to see what has happened to Imelda. I hope everyone now realizes what we're up against. The good folk of Bree are under attack. This isn't a game. Which makes me even more upset with Blade. If he's crazy, we should get rid of him before he sells us out. Or if he's acting crazy, what are his motives? Just having fun? Think Imelda is having fun now?

I'm sorry. I'm just really upset by this news. Imelda and I were friends. We used to meet at the Prancing Pony for drinks and to smoke. She had the best pipe-weed around. I'm really going to miss her.

[Tyrith]

I still think it's interesting that AlanT seems to be having a bit of innocent fun with the LotR history/flavor in this game, and that certain people are absolutely lambasting him over it.

Sometimes I wonder if the people arguing with each other the most, while at the same time not pushing a lynch on the other person, are actually riffing off of each other from the same side.

That sentence made absolutely no sense. But I know what I meant, damnit.

I know, and I feel bad about having to bust him for it, but the "innocent fun" could be used to screw around with us in certain situations. Or it could have, until Anxiety nerfed it.

[Jonathan Ezarik]

They couldn't kill anyone out of the alan/saldana/blade trio unless they're all good because we're just looking for excuses to come down on them...the only way they could ever have done that is if all three of them are good and they wanted us to kill our own active players. Beyond that, who knows?

Or one (or more) of the Alan/Saldana/Blade trio is evil. I know the two factions of darkness are playing against each other as well, but why would they take out one of their own and not someone from the light?

[BrianD]

Is it possible they didn't know he was Dark?

[Jonathan Ezarik]

Is it possible they didn't know he was Dark?

Who? I don't know if the agents of darkness know who all is dark, but if they're in the same faction they'll know each other.

[BrianD]

Who? I don't know if the agents of darkness know who all is dark, but if they're in the same faction they'll know each other.

I agree that none of them would take out a member of their own faction, but if one or more were dark and on the same team, they may not have knows that Scoobz was on the other dark team (or was a dark independent).

[Lathum]

Or one (or more) of the Alan/Saldana/Blade trio is evil. I know the two factions of darkness are playing against each other as well, but why would they take out one of their own and not someone from the light?

Are you talking about scoobz?

[Jonathan Ezarik]

No, I'm talking about the person that took out Fouts.

[BrianD]

No, I'm talking about the person that took out Fouts.

Oops, I thought that comment was about the Scoobz lynch.

[Blade6119]

No, I'm talking about the person that took out Fouts.

The two dark armies dont know the members of their rival darkness id imagine. I was somewhat expecting two kills with two dark armies. If fouts was the bodyguard, i wonder why he didnt protect himself on night one

[Lathum]

ok, so I'm confused. Fouts wasn't evil so where is this conversation going?

[saldana]

I will be out all day (working both jobs), so I have to get my vote in here.

Nothing has really come forth from the night actions yet, other than poor Fouts' death, of course, so I don't have much to go on.

I will stick with my reasoning from last night and follow up on suspicions, for lack of a better candidate. I am sure someone will emerge today, but I unfortunately won't be around to change my vote. So hopefully my suspicions are correct.

VOTE SALDANA

1. please reference post numbers where i "overreacted", as i hardly think i did anything of the sort.


after that, please evaluate the following statements (alan please take no offense from this, as i am just as 'bad' as you are)

1. the particular theme of this game allows for various levels of background knowledge

2. alan defined himself very early as having a extensive knowledge of LOTR geekdom

3. other players in the game expressed having know knowledge of said geekdom

4. alan made statements that drew upon his geekdom knowledge and presented those statements as fact

5. those statements were made in an accusatory manner towards blade

6. anyone with no or little geekdom knowledge may see alan as an authority and take his statements to be true

7. i, also having significant knowledge of LOTR geekdom pointed out that Alans statements are not necessarily fact, and should not be taken as such

8. an extremely geeky discussion ensued over how he was deriving his statements, versus where i was deriving my arguements with them.

9. he gave his point of view, i disagreed with it, and moved on....note, i did not vote for alan yesterday, and will not likely vote for him today

where exactly did i do anything wolfish in the least...my actions yesterday were performed in an effort to make sure that people that dont share alan and I's fascination with LOTR were not led astray by the statements alan was presenting. he made presented statements as facts...i parried by saying they were not fact..

please explain how your logic progressed from me exposing my knowledge of Middle Earth in an effort to make sure all the townspeople had two different sources of information as opposed to only alan's perspective to my being on the side of Darkness

[spleen1015]

please explain how your logic progressed from me exposing my knowledge of Middle Earth in an effort to make sure all the townspeople had two different sources of information as opposed to only alan's perspective to my being on the side of Darkness

Easy! Chief Rum is a dark dude.

[Blade6119]

1. please reference post numbers where i "overreacted", as i hardly think i did anything of the sort.


after that, please evaluate the following statements (alan please take no offense from this, as i am just as 'bad' as you are)

1. the particular theme of this game allows for various levels of background knowledge

2. alan defined himself very early as having a extensive knowledge of LOTR geekdom

3. other players in the game expressed having know knowledge of said geekdom

4. alan made statements that drew upon his geekdom knowledge and presented those statements as fact

5. those statements were made in an accusatory manner towards blade

6. anyone with no or little geekdom knowledge may see alan as an authority and take his statements to be true

7. i, also having significant knowledge of LOTR geekdom pointed out that Alans statements are not necessarily fact, and should not be taken as such

8. an extremely geeky discussion ensued over how he was deriving his statements, versus where i was deriving my arguements with them.

9. he gave his point of view, i disagreed with it, and moved on....note, i did not vote for alan yesterday, and will not likely vote for him today

where exactly did i do anything wolfish in the least...my actions yesterday were performed in an effort to make sure that people that dont share alan and I's fascination with LOTR were not led astray by the statements alan was presenting. he made presented statements as facts...i parried by saying they were not fact..

please explain how your logic progressed from me exposing my knowledge of Middle Earth in an effort to make sure all the townspeople had two different sources of information as opposed to only alan's perspective to my being on the side of Darkness
Pwned :eek:

[saldana]

i have watched CR make wild accusations for a number of games now, and not once have i been able to follow his logic...today is no different.

( and IIRC, not once has he been anywhere close to correct ;))

vote Chief Rum

[spleen1015]

i have watched CR make wild accusations for a number of games now, and not once have i been able to follow his logic...today is no different.

I was thinking the same thing. I will likely vote for Chief today, but I want to see how things develop.

[Izulde]

Is it just me or has Blade been awful quiet today after the brouhaha yesterday?

To me, that suggests he's quite possibly Dark, since he knows that spotlighted trouble on him, and now he's laying low and hoping to be avoided... so that'll be my vote for now.

VOTE BLADE

[Izulde]

dola,

Okay, so Blade's been active after I read through more... but it just seems like a form of verbally laying low, if that makes sense. :D

[Blade6119]

Is it just me or has Blade been awful quiet today after the brouhaha yesterday?

To me, that suggests he's quite possibly Dark, since he knows that spotlighted trouble on him, and now he's laying low and hoping to be avoided... so that'll be my vote for now.

VOTE BLADE

Its 11 AM here, im in college, i have classes...im on my lunch break right now. And already i have gotten in 3 posts...little trigger happy here izulde? :confused: :confused:

By the way, those 3 are 3 times as many as you have today :rolleyes:

[Izulde]

Its 11 AM here, im in college, i have classes...im on my lunch break right now. And already i have gotten in 3 posts...little trigger happy here izulde? :confused: :confused:

By the way, those 3 are 3 times as many as you have today :rolleyes:

It's just the general vibe I'm getting, that you're running scared.

[Blade6119]

Well i have classes for the next 4 hours, so i guess ill be running scared until im out

[Jonathan Ezarik]

The two dark armies dont know the members of their rival darkness id imagine. I was somewhat expecting two kills with two dark armies. If fouts was the bodyguard, i wonder why he didnt protect himself on night one

Why were you expecting two kills of the dark faction? The Scoobz kill was completely by luck. If they already lost one member, why take out another? Why wouldn't they go after someone who was good? That would be like the rangers taking out the townsfolk for no reason. In the long run, something like that could happen, but why so early? I would think that the forces of darkness are working together right now and will turn on each other later.

[Grammaticus]

Why were you expecting two kills of the dark faction? The Scoobz kill was completely by luck. If they already lost one member, why take out another? Why wouldn't they go after someone who was good? That would be like the rangers taking out the townsfolk for no reason. In the long run, something like that could happen, but why so early? I would think that the forces of darkness are working together right now and will turn on each other later.

I think he means two night kills, which likely would have been 2 good guys getting killed. Usually when there are 2 evil factions, they don’t know who each other are, so they could end up killing each other while targeting someone they think is good.

Basically I think Blade was saying he expected a kill from the Sauron Agents and a kill from the Saruman Agents. But there was only one kill.

[Tyrith]

Why were you expecting two kills of the dark faction? The Scoobz kill was completely by luck. If they already lost one member, why take out another? Why wouldn't they go after someone who was good? That would be like the rangers taking out the townsfolk for no reason. In the long run, something like that could happen, but why so early? I would think that the forces of darkness are working together right now and will turn on each other later.

I have to agree with this. Right now they need to be getting in good guy kills, because making sure darkness wins seems like it's going to be more important than making sure their part of darkness wins.

Speculation in this regard:

1) If the bad guys have some sort of seer role, perhaps they will be able to eventually figure out who some/most/all of our rangers are. If so, they can keep them alive longer. Eventually the side of darkness will have numbers on the rangers and can control the vote while not actually winning the game. At that point the darkness sides will probably start tearing into each other and the game might turn three ways. I don't know what, if any, value this has for us at this time.

2) All of this is highly speculative because we don't know how many bad guys there are. We can't begin to accurately predict that number until we know what kind of roles we have on our side. Thus, we're probably going to be fairly clueless for another couple of days, in this regard.

Other observations:

- saldana's self-defense today points out the reasons why I put Alan "on notice" last night. Someone controlling the conversation putting out information like that is dangerous in general, good or bad.

- I can't really disagree with saldana's assessment of Chief Rum.

- I have zero clue as to what to do today besides killing alan to figure out how serious/dumb he was being yesterday, and that feels stupid...I'd still rather let him draw attention another day or two, then kill him and use him for vote records, or let him be night killed if he's good. Loud people shouldn't be killed early without good reason because they provoke so much controversy and tend to spin webs around themselves and once we figure out their allegiance we can unspin the webs. Net of it is that I have no clue for today.

I should be around.

[SnDvls]

it's possible there was a conversion and no kill too if we are looking at two evil sides battling it out.

[SnDvls]

Victory Conditions:

Agents of Sauron: Major victory if darkness wins and no Agents of Saruman are alive.

Agents of Saruman: Major victory if darkness wins and no Agents of Sauron remain.

If the Agents of Darkness win, and both Sauron and Saruman are still represented, a power struggle begins. The GM will determine which faction wrests control and which faction is ousted.



this is what led to my conclusion of conversion

I bet it's a numbers game for the darkness too.

they need to have the numbers to win the game, but also the numbers to beat the other dark faction too is my guess

[BrianD]

It seems like the last few games we killed off all of the talkative guys before deciding that we should look at some of the quiet ones. Should we look at mixing that up in this game and start with the quiet ones?

[BrianD]

this is what led to my conclusion of conversion

I bet it's a numbers game for the darkness too.

they need to have the numbers to win the game, but also the numbers to beat the other dark faction too is my guess

The rules say if the Darkness wins and both dark factions are still around, the GM would pick a winner. They will either need to kill each other off, or close enough to guarantee their own win.

[Tyrith]

I think he means two night kills, which likely would have been 2 good guys getting killed. Usually when there are 2 evil factions, they don’t know who each other are, so they could end up killing each other while targeting someone they think is good.

Basically I think Blade was saying he expected a kill from the Sauron Agents and a kill from the Saruman Agents. But there was only one kill.

If they don't know who each other is, what does everyone think about them maybe having a seer? I don't expect any of us has a remotely intelligent answer right now, but this is going to be important when we look at voting records.

[Tyrith]

It seems like the last few games we killed off all of the talkative guys before deciding that we should look at some of the quiet ones. Should we look at mixing that up in this game and start with the quiet ones?

I'm for it. Got anyone in particular that's sticking out to you?

[BrianD]

If they don't know who each other is, what does everyone think about them maybe having a seer? I don't expect any of us has a remotely intelligent answer right now, but this is going to be important when we look at voting records.

Makes sense I guess. They probably need to be able to identify the other faction and the Rangers.

[Jonathan Ezarik]

I think he means two night kills, which likely would have been 2 good guys getting killed. Usually when there are 2 evil factions, they don’t know who each other are, so they could end up killing each other while targeting someone they think is good.

Basically I think Blade was saying he expected a kill from the Sauron Agents and a kill from the Saruman Agents. But there was only one kill.

Ok. If that's the case, then yeah it is interesting that there was only one kill. It seems like Fouts could be the result of the Sauron faction since they are more eager to act now that the Black Riders were in town. Saruman lost a player, so it could be that they were lying low last night.

[BrianD]

I'm for it. Got anyone in particular that's sticking out to you?

Not particularly. Looking at the player list, I don't seem to remember hearing much from KWhit, Swaggs, SnDvls, or Sublime2 (or obviously Neuqua), but I am going strictly by memory. I'll have to look back.