Werewolf XXXVII: Middle-Earth - GAME ENDS. Who Won? Check it out!

[Jonathan Ezarik]

Just to get a vote out there:

VOTE DaddyTorgo

He was one of the last to swing his vote to Scoobz and he really needed to be swayed to do so.

[Tyrith]

Not particularly. Looking at the player list, I don't seem to remember hearing much from KWhit, Swaggs, SnDvls, or Sublime2 (or obviously Neuqua), but I am going strictly by memory. I'll have to look back.

SnDvls will start talking later. He tends to be say a lot with fewer posts than people like Alan, blade, or even myself.

KWhit, well, I thought he would be talking more, but it's been a while since I've seen him play.

With Sublime...I'm conflicted. There is the part of me that wants to be nice to the new guy, let him get settled and such. Then there's the part that remembers that people were nice to me during my first game, I was bad, and I used it to screw them. But for now, give other choices, I'd rather not lynch the newbie.

[DaddyTorgo]

gonna hafta catchup later this afternoon 6 or 7 again. hafta take niece for a flu shot and then go and hopefully get my ass promoted. can't read 2 pages of posts on my phone right now

[Alan T]

Vote Chief Rum

The last game when I was super talkative at the start, two people came out buddy buddy with me, or perhaps not necessarily buddy buddy, but they supported me "thinking" I was good. Both people ended up bad.

Believe me or not, I usually don't see many good reasons for innocent villagers to back an unknown pretty strongly early other than with the thinking that when I get lynched or night killed and end up good it buys you trust since you were defending a good guy. I don't know squat about you, so I assume you know just as little about me.

As for my thoughts on the 4 factions and particular the 3 smaller groups.. My assumption going in you would have one main group of villagers/townspeople who would be the largest group. To counter that you have the main evil group (Mordor) who has the night kill action as well as some other possible normal bad guy actions.

You then have Isengard (Saruman), and Arnor (Rangers) who are more support groups for the side of darkness and side of light. Each with their own winning condition, I would imagine Saruman's side possibly having various support type bad guy actions... things like Conversion, a one time (or limited time) assassin role, etc. The Rangers, having excellent knowledge in tracking and healing and protection might have roles such as a witness role or some form of seer role as perhaps a bodyguard action.

I would think having two or three groups that can do night kills might make the game very chaotic and unpredictable (Even though I guess its always a possibility). My thinking is Saruman's forces probably can do a night kill, but just not every night or maybe not more than once a game and want to try to identify a good target so its not wasted.


Finally to Saldana and Blade.. believe whatever you want. My posts day 1 were out of my love for this genre, and were not trying to incite a lynching. Long story short, but without Tolkien I actually never probably would have known about Baseball Mogul, FOF or OOTP and you all likely would never had to have put up with me in the first place. If you are clinging to the idea that I was doing some passive agressive lynch maneuvering with my comments then thats your prerogative. I've not lied about anything this game, my feelings or otherwise.

[Abe Sargent]

Anxiety,

Any word on what we are going to do about Neuqua? Basically is he going to be replaced or not. If not, then we know it is up to us to determine in game. If he is, then can it be done today so as not to hold a position over multiple days?

Might be that you are in the process of figuring that out now, but just thought I would ask.

I've sent a pm and am awaiting a response. When I know, you'll know.

[Lathum]

I'm wondering if there is a dynamic in the game where certain factions can only kill every other night or have to wait a certain number of days to kill etc...

I find it impossible to believe anyone was lying low last night

[SnDvls]

Not particularly. Looking at the player list, I don't seem to remember hearing much from KWhit, Swaggs, SnDvls, or Sublime2 (or obviously Neuqua), but I am going strictly by memory. I'll have to look back.

Keep looking on me I was on and posting all day yesterday

[Tyrith]

Vote Chief Rum

The last game when I was super talkative at the start, two people came out buddy buddy with me, or perhaps not necessarily buddy buddy, but they supported me "thinking" I was good. Both people ended up bad.

Believe me or not, I usually don't see many good reasons for innocent villagers to back an unknown pretty strongly early other than with the thinking that when I get lynched or night killed and end up good it buys you trust since you were defending a good guy. I don't know squat about you, so I assume you know just as little about me.

As for my thoughts on the 4 factions and particular the 3 smaller groups.. My assumption going in you would have one main group of villagers/townspeople who would be the largest group. To counter that you have the main evil group (Mordor) who has the night kill action as well as some other possible normal bad guy actions.

You then have Isengard (Saruman), and Arnor (Rangers) who are more support groups for the side of darkness and side of light. Each with their own winning condition, I would imagine Saruman's side possibly having various support type bad guy actions... things like Conversion, a one time (or limited time) assassin role, etc. The Rangers, having excellent knowledge in tracking and healing and protection might have roles such as a witness role or some form of seer role as perhaps a bodyguard action.

I would think having two or three groups that can do night kills might make the game very chaotic and unpredictable (Even though I guess its always a possibility). My thinking is Saruman's forces probably can do a night kill, but just not every night or maybe not more than once a game and want to try to identify a good target so its not wasted.


Finally to Saldana and Blade.. believe whatever you want. My posts day 1 were out of my love for this genre, and were not trying to incite a lynching. Long story short, but without Tolkien I actually never probably would have known about Baseball Mogul, FOF or OOTP and you all likely would never had to have put up with me in the first place. If you are clinging to the idea that I was doing some passive agressive lynch maneuvering with my comments then thats your prerogative. I've not lied about anything this game, my feelings or otherwise.

Good analysis on this one. Although saying you haven't lied makes me suspicious.... >_>

[saldana]

Finally to Saldana and Blade.. believe whatever you want. My posts day 1 were out of my love for this genre, and were not trying to incite a lynching. Long story short, but without Tolkien I actually never probably would have known about Baseball Mogul, FOF or OOTP and you all likely would never had to have put up with me in the first place. If you are clinging to the idea that I was doing some passive agressive lynch maneuvering with my comments then thats your prerogative. I've not lied about anything this game, my feelings or otherwise.

Alan, you can stop defending yourself about yesterday to me....i let it go last night because i came to think that you were doing exactly what you say above....if i thought anything otherwise, you would have gotten my vote today.

[Tyrith]

I'm wondering if there is a dynamic in the game where certain factions can only kill every other night or have to wait a certain number of days to kill etc...

I find it impossible to believe anyone was lying low last night

It wouldn't surprise me. I suspect Alan isn't totally correct about the Saruman faction; if they are outnumbered and can't night kill they couldn't ever get their major victory. Something like this makes that work. There could be a fairly significant percentage of failures on night kills, too.

[Alan T]

Good analysis on this one. Although saying you haven't lied makes me suspicious.... >_>

I am a hobbit in Real life.













There, now I can't say that any longer.

[BrianD]

Keep looking on me I was on and posting all day yesterday

Sorry, with the giant history lesson that was going on most of the day, I'm sure posts got missed in my search for game-related posts.

[Thomkal]

Well I'm at a loss as to who to vote for today so far. Seems we have no real information other than to look at Fouts comments to see if he gave any hints.

[Alan T]

It wouldn't surprise me. I suspect Alan isn't totally correct about the Saruman faction; if they are outnumbered and can't night kill they couldn't ever get their major victory. Something like this makes that work. There could be a fairly significant percentage of failures on night kills, too.

Well thats why I said I wouldn't be suprised if Saruman's forces have some form of conversion that they can use (even possibly multiple times) as a balance. Saruman gained his forces by cross breeding Sauron's forces (such as orcs) with the good people (such as men) to form his army. Going along with this, I wouldn't be suprised if they have that ability.

[Tyrith]

I am a hobbit in Real life.

There, now I can't say that any longer.

Great, now I can't trust you anymore! No circle of trust for j00!

[Tyrith]

Well thats why I said I wouldn't be suprised if Saruman's forces have some form of conversion that they can use (even possibly multiple times) as a balance. Saruman gained his forces by cross breeding Sauron's forces (such as orcs) with the good people (such as men) to form his army. Going along with this, I wouldn't be suprised if they have that ability.

Hm, perhaps. But they'd still have to be able to catch up to Sauron on numbers somehow in order to lynch kill them out of the game. Maybe they get some sort of defensive effects so that Sauron can't chip them down?

[Jonathan Ezarik]

I'm under the impression that the Saruman forces outnumber Sauron. The intro says that both Sauron and the Rangers are small groups, but it doesn't say that about Saruman.

[Jonathan Ezarik]

Well I'm at a loss as to who to vote for today so far. Seems we have no real information other than to look at Fouts comments to see if he gave any hints.

Looking at yesterday's action, Fouts voted against KWhit to get him to come out of the woodwork. Then I believe he was the fourth person to vote for Scoobz. What you can take from that is beyond me.

[Mr. Wednesday]

On Page 1, he was listed as Silvos the dark adept. Needless to say, that is a fake name too. So I am pretty convinced most people if not all have fake names in this game. THe description still leads me to think it was the Saruman type role, but guess only time will tell. Either way I think this was a huge kill for us today. Nice for luck to turn out on our side for once.
My guess would be, dark adept = attempt to kill him by forces of darkness converts him to the side of those that make the attempt.

[KWhit]

Are we all forgetting Blade's crazy talk yesterday? What the heck was that about, anyway?

That's what started the whole Blade, Saldana, AlanT thing (that has now got Chief Rum in the hot seat too).

Blade's crazy talk is either:

1) Part of his role.
2) Some kind of gambit to do something.

If it's #1 and his role is somehow looney tunes, I can't see keeping him around because crazy folk aren't good for helping you win. Either he's somehow tainted by the One Ring or is otherwise mentally challenged.

If it's #2 and he was just trying to get a reaction out of someone - he succeeded. However, I don't know how that helps us good guys, and has likely distracted us into the Saldana-AlanT thing when it is quite possible that they are both good.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Dola, along those lines, I think it's highly unlikely that anyone besides Scoobz was aware of his role.

[saldana]

My guess would be, dark adept = attempt to kill him by forces of darkness converts him to the side of those that make the attempt.

i think this is highly likely, although i doubt it was an either/or situation....i think it was likely that he had to be found by a specific group of dark players.

i am figuring that there are actually very few true bad guys in the game, maybe 2 on each side to start, but with the ability to make multiple conversions throughout the game...i would guess they have some sort of seer ability to help them find their adepts.

my thought would be that there are 2 sauron and 2 saruman agents out there, with 2 or 3 possible conversions for each of them, and probably 3 rangers to balance them out.

[Abe Sargent]

Dola, along those lines, I think it's highly unlikely that anyone besides Scoobz was aware of his role.



Good luck getting Dolas during the afternoon in a game with 25 players!


-Anxiety

[BrianD]

Dola, along those lines, I think it's highly unlikely that anyone besides Scoobz was aware of his role.

Because nobody really stood up for him, or for another reason?

[saldana]

dola, the reason i doubt it was an either/or situation was because Sauron and Saruman are rivals in the game....finding and eliminating one of the opponents possible conversions would be a big benefit for either of them....if the adept could go either way, then finding one of them could unbalance that rivalry very early in the game with no way for the other side to catch up.

[Jonathan Ezarik]

I find it interesting that KWhit starts trying to turn the attention to Blade after I mention how Fouts originally voted for him. I'm not accusing him of anything, I just find it interesting.

For the record, though, I do agree that Blade needs to go sooner rather than later. By either being crazy or acting crazy, he's really confused things. And I don't see how that helps the good guys.

[Thomkal]

Because nobody really stood up for him, or for another reason?

I would say because no one made a real effort to sway the vote from him when it became clear he was going to be one of the lynch candidates for the day.

[saldana]

I find it interesting that KWhit starts trying to turn the attention to Blade after I mention how Fouts originally voted for him. I'm not accusing him of anything, I just find it interesting.

For the record, though, I do agree that Blade needs to go sooner rather than later. By either being crazy or acting crazy, he's really confused things. And I don't see how that helps the good guys.


i find it interesting that both you and Kwhit are trying to turn the attention back to blade right after he said he had classes for the next 4 hours and wouldnt be here to defend himself.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Because nobody really stood up for him, or for another reason?
Because that's the only way a non-affiliated dark side role makes any sense to me.

[Jonathan Ezarik]

And I find it interesting that you keep defending Blade against everyone.

[Mr. Wednesday]

I think lynching the dark adept is a big positive outcome, but at the same time, there's very little to be learned from the vote.

Today, we need to do what we should have done yesterday and try to have a runoff between two villagers, rather than a pile-on onto one.

[SnDvls]

vote St. Cronin

I want to hear more from him

[Jonathan Ezarik]

I would say because no one made a real effort to sway the vote from him when it became clear he was going to be one of the lynch candidates for the day.

Except for DaddyTorgo, who need to be convinced to change his vote to Scoobz when there were already 11 votes cast against him.

[SnDvls]

I find it interesting that a lot of people are deflecting or accusing, but not making a lynch vote. :D

take a stand...yes you can change it later, but take a stand.

[KWhit]

I find it interesting that KWhit starts trying to turn the attention to Blade after I mention how Fouts originally voted for him. I'm not accusing him of anything, I just find it interesting.

If memory serves, Fouts voted for me because I hadn't shown up yet. I'm not too worried about him voting for me yesterday. It's not like he knew anything about me one way or the other.

[BrianD]

Because that's the only way a non-affiliated dark side role makes any sense to me.

It will be nice when we get another dark guy taken out so we can compare the death messages. I agree that it sounds like Scoobz was non-affiliated, but I'm still not sure if I positively believe he was non-affiliated. A comparison message would be nice.

Either way, he was dark and it is good that he is dead. It just makes me nervous when I don't know how many bad teams there are.

[KWhit]

i find it interesting that both you and Kwhit are trying to turn the attention back to blade right after he said he had classes for the next 4 hours and wouldnt be here to defend himself.

So we're not supposed to speculate about people when they're not around?

Um.... Anyone who doesn't think Blade's behavior yesterday was at the very least odd needs to have their head examined.

[Jonathan Ezarik]

I agree that it sounds like Scoobz was non-affiliated, but I'm still not sure if I positively believe he was non-affiliated.

He was dealing with sorcery but wasn't associated with Sauron. That to me means he was with Saruman.

[saldana]

So we're not supposed to speculate about people when they're not around?

Um.... Anyone who doesn't think Blade's behavior yesterday was at the very least odd needs to have their head examined.

as far as whether or not i thought blade was putting something odd in his pipe yesterday, i have already said that i did

and as far as speculating about people when they're not around, thats not what i said either...i just said i found it interesting that no one came out against blade until he said he was out for 4 hours

again, i am not defending blade per se......one of the things i like to do in these games is watch for who tries to push either for or against voting for certain players, and people who always want to lynch blade right away always set my alarm bells off.

[Swaggs]

Saldana seems to be much more confrontational than usual in this game.

[Tyrith]

vote St. Cronin

I want to hear more from him

Cronin is being unusually quiet. I don't know what to make of it -- RL, or cronin sick of being killed? The latter certainly makes sense to me after his reaction last game.

[BrianD]

He was dealing with sorcery but wasn't associated with Sauron. That to me means he was with Saruman.

I am going to disagree with this. His info on page one says he was "on the side of darkness". Fouts info says he was "on the side of Light and the townsfolks". If Scoobz was on the side of Saruman, I think it would say so specifically.

[Neuqua]

Hey guys,
Just wanted to let you know I let Anxiety know that it would be of benefit to the ww experience if he found a replacement for me this week. Things are getting better with my grandfather but I plan on making many trips throughout the day to the hospital and that may hinder everyone elses' experience in enjoying the game as much as they could.

I'll be looking forward to next time though.

Good luck everybody.

[saldana]

Saldana seems to be much more confrontational than usual in this game.

swaggs, i am not trying to be confrontational, it is more of a factor that every time i play, i take alot of my thoughts to the grave with me because i get whacked so fast....this game i am just putting my analysis out there for the team so that when i die, my theories dont die with me.

[saldana]

Hey guys,
Just wanted to let you know I let Anxiety know that it would be of benefit to the ww experience if he found a replacement for me this week. Things are getting better with my grandfather but I plan on making many trips throughout the day to the hospital and that may hinder everyone elses' experience in enjoying the game as much as they could.

I'll be looking forward to next time though.

Good luck everybody.

glad to hear things are looking up for gramps, neuqua...i am sure i speak for everyone that isnt in the thread right now saying our prayers and thoughts are with your family.

lynch you later,
sal

[Grammaticus]

Well for what it is worth regarding the one kill. The rules stated that Sauron’s agents actively seek to serve the forces of darkness and kill all who oppose them. They probably have night kills.

The agents of Saruman are trying to slowly bring Bree into the fold of Saruman through plitical, social and economic manipulation. That would suggest maybe no night kill, but some other power such as turning and likely can affect the agents of Sauron as well. It also says they use sorcery. An Adept uses magic/sorcery so it makes me think the dark adept is linked to Saruman in some way.

[saldana]

swaggs, i am not trying to be confrontational, it is more of a factor that every time i play, i take alot of my thoughts to the grave with me because i get whacked so fast....this game i am just putting my analysis out there for the team so that when i die, my theories dont die with me.

also, i am home all day until the week after thanksgiving, so i am able to follow things along and comment on them when they actually happen instead of several hours later when i catch up after work.

[Lathum]

I think it is likely one of the dark factions attempted a conversion last night and failed for whatever reason

[Alan T]

I think it is likely one of the dark factions attempted a conversion last night and failed for whatever reason

Out of curiosity why would you think its likely that this would be the outcome? I mean normally we have no idea when a conversion happens.. I can picture a conversion attempt happening fairly early this game, but why would you think its more likely they failed than succeeded?

[Lathum]

Out of curiosity why would you think its likely that this would be the outcome? I mean normally we have no idea when a conversion happens.. I can picture a conversion attempt happening fairly early this game, but why would you think its more likely they failed than succeeded?

it's possible they did succed, I was just thinking back to the tombstone game when we tried an early conversion and failed so thats where my thoughts bought me.

[Jonathan Ezarik]

Ok, a little more than five hours to go before tonight's deadline. Here's how the voting stands as I see it:

Saldana - 1 (by Chief Rum)
Chief Rum - 2 (by saldana, Alan T)
Blade - 1 (by Izulde)
DaddyTorgo - 1 (by Jonathan)
st.cronin - 1 (by SnDvls)

[Schmidty]

Vote Rum Chief

[Blade6119]

Id like to hear more from cronin, but he was even quieter then this the final 3 days of the small game, so its not like he suddenly went quiet this game.

Ill start my role-playing back up in a bit, so if it annoys you, oh well

[BrianD]

I'll stick with my day 1 vote. If a run-off develops, I'll jump in.

Vote Spleen

[Lathum]

vote chiefrum

I've seen this game from him before

[Jonathan Ezarik]

vote chiefrum

I've seen this game from him before

What's he doing that you've seen before?

[st.cronin]

Cronin is being unusually quiet. I don't know what to make of it -- RL, or cronin sick of being killed? The latter certainly makes sense to me after his reaction last game.

Real life. This game has only been running two days and it's already over ten pages! I don't know how to make sense of everything. I am going to guess that both sal and al are villagers - that's what that sort of thing usually is.

As for Blade, I'm sure he'll be scanned by a seer sooner rather than later - if he turns out bad, we'll know.

So I won't be voting for any of those three today. I also won't vote for Chief Rum just yet.

vote Lathum

I don't like his suggestion that there was an UNsuccesful conversion. It smells like spreading manure to confuse the village.

[Lathum]

What's he doing that you've seen before?

Latching onto a suspect, casting his vote then not being around to argue his point.

[Lathum]

Real life. This game has only been running two days and it's already over ten pages! I don't know how to make sense of everything. I am going to guess that both sal and al are villagers - that's what that sort of thing usually is.

As for Blade, I'm sure he'll be scanned by a seer sooner rather than later - if he turns out bad, we'll know.

So I won't be voting for any of those three today. I also won't vote for Chief Rum just yet.

vote Lathum

I don't like his suggestion that there was an UNsuccesful conversion. It smells like spreading manure to confuse the village.


I knew someone would latch onto that. At least I am involved in the discussion. If I was on the dark side would I really say there was a failed conversion?

[Alan T]

Latching onto a suspect, casting his vote then not being around to argue his point.

I have my vote on Chief Rum currently, but to be fair to him every Tuesday and I think Wednesday since the existance of his playing in WW games here he goes to work from like 5am or 6am or something until 9-10pm somewhere, so this isn't like its a wolf move of his, he does it every game. Its his work schedule.

If you want my thoughts about why I voted Chief Rum you can look at my post where I voted for him. Last game he did a similar thing of supporting me early and he ended up evil. My basis for my vote was that he was the strongest supported of mine without having any knowledge of my role.

Similar to the same reasons I found Saldana supporting Blade so much yesterday very odd, I find the same thing true about Chief Rum today. Saldana has explained his actions and even if I don't agree with his opinion of my game play, he has given a plausible excuse for it. A little pressure on Chief should do the same thing I think. I'm curious to why a good guy would blindly go strong for another person in support without knowing my role or allegiance.

Just wanted to be fair about his schedule though, its not like he did a hit and run, its the same schedule he always has.

[Blade6119]

I knew someone would latch onto that. At least I am involved in the discussion. If I was on the dark side would I really say there was a failed conversion?

If i was on the dark side would i suddenly change my entire play style and give everyone a reason to lynch me, which regardless of my alignment, quite a few people look for?

Yet here i am with people like izulde and kwhit calling me out...so lathum, accept the fact the some players dont seem to puch my complex thought into their votes and go back to hating me :p

[Blade6119]

to put much*

[st.cronin]

I knew someone would latch onto that. At least I am involved in the discussion. If I was on the dark side would I really say there was a failed conversion?

Yes, you sure might.

[Tyrith]

I will not be jumping on the Rum train for the sake of it at this point. The first vote or two I understand...but Lathum's vote? He just seemed to latch onto Alan's idea, practically word for word. It unsettles me somewhat. Combine that with his suggestions of an unsuccessful conversion...I talked about the fact that maybe they weren't successful last night, but that was in the context of a kill where the target might not find out they were attacked, or any of a number of things Anxiety could be doing. No, right now Lathum is suspicious enough for me to put another vote on him.

[Tyrith]

Dola, I should actually vote.

VOTE LATHUM

[Tyrith]

If i was on the dark side would i suddenly change my entire play style and give everyone a reason to lynch me, which regardless of my alignment, quite a few people look for?

Yet here i am with people like izulde and kwhit calling me out...so lathum, accept the fact the some players dont seem to puch my complex thought into their votes and go back to hating me :p

Yeah, seeing that we look for almost any reason to randomly make blade die, I don't think he'd go out of his way to load the gun and put it into our hand.

[Lathum]

Blade, I don't hate you.

Alan, I am familiar with CR's schedule but that doesn't change the fact that because of his schedule he does what amounts to a hit and run.

Tyrith- How am I jumping on what alan said? I voted for CR because I have seen him play this way before as a bad guy.

[Lathum]

tyrith, point to where i jumped "word for word" on what alan said.

To be honest with you half of what alan has said this game makes no sense at all to me.

[st.cronin]

To be honest with you half of what alan has said this game makes no sense at all to me.

I definitely agree with this.

[Tyrith]

Excuse me, it was not Alan that you were following, it was saldana:

i have watched CR make wild accusations for a number of games now, and not once have i been able to follow his logic...today is no different.

( and IIRC, not once has he been anywhere close to correct ;))

vote Chief Rum

[Tyrith]

The collection of people that are on Rum right now just make me very leery. And the way Lathum joined in without even mentioning the fact that he was putting a fourth vote on a guy when no one was having any momentum smells of "Let's Make a Bandwagon!" Combonation of circumstances is very fishy. I really should be paying closer attention to what I'm doing, though.

[saldana]

The collection of people that are on Rum right now just make me very leery. And the way Lathum joined in without even mentioning the fact that he was putting a fourth vote on a guy when no one was having any momentum smells of "Let's Make a Bandwagon!" Combonation of circumstances is very fishy. I really should be paying closer attention to what I'm doing, though.

tyrith, all things being equal, i would agree with this, but we have to remember the ruleset for this game....a plurality doesnt do anything...we need a majority to get a lynch, and that pretty much guarantees that we have to have what we would normally call a bandwagon every day until the numbers get lower....from having played with him often, i know lathum is in the "ties (or days without lynches) are a bad idea" camp, so i saw his vote as one that was aimed at preventing a no lynch scenario.

[Tyrith]

tyrith, all things being equal, i would agree with this, but we have to remember the ruleset for this game....a plurality doesnt do anything...we need a majority to get a lynch, and that pretty much guarantees that we have to have what we would normally call a bandwagon every day until the numbers get lower....from having played with him often, i know lathum is in the "ties (or days without lynches) are a bad idea" camp, so i saw his vote as one that was aimed at preventing a no lynch scenario.

Hrm, true. Stupid majority rule is gonna screw up our voting records for the first couple of days because people can use it as an excuse to vote with the herd.

[Blade6119]

Well, we do need majority...i would rather vote for alan again despite others backing off, and will vote for alan if chief turns out good as alan likely just deflected the attention from himself to chief, but like saldana said...we need a majority. Yesterday i was not apart of the lynch, today i might as well help out

VOTE CHIEF RUM

[Lathum]

The collection of people that are on Rum right now just make me very leery. And the way Lathum joined in without even mentioning the fact that he was putting a fourth vote on a guy when no one was having any momentum smells of "Let's Make a Bandwagon!" Combonation of circumstances is very fishy. I really should be paying closer attention to what I'm doing, though.


the fact that you say you should be paying closer attention throws up flags for me. First you screw up alan and saldana, then throw some accusations at me. Then you claim we are starting a bandwagon when the structure of the game is that a bandwagon is needed for a lynch.

The fact that I am the fourth person to vote for someone ( and I think I was the third) doesn't mean much since we need 8 other people to follow suit.

You are usually very on top of things, I consider you the best "new" player in the game so the fact that you claim you need to pay better attention raises flags all over for me.

[Alan T]

Well, we do need majority...i would rather vote for alan again despite others backing off, and will vote for alan if chief turns out good as alan likely just deflected the attention from himself to chief, but like saldana said...we need a majority. Yesterday i was not apart of the lynch, today i might as well help out

VOTE CHIEF RUM

:rolleyes:

[Jonathan Ezarik]

UNVOTE DaddyTorgo

VOTE Chief Rum

I really have no reason to vote for him, but I'm afraid that if we keep screwing around we won't lynch anyone.

[Alan T]

Dola,

I love the arguement I'm going to vote with person X, but if my vote ends up being bad I'm going to vote for person X tommorrow.

Please Blade, don't do me any favors and vote for someone else if you don't agree with my reasoning. I give my reasons for the vote, agree with them or disagree with them but in no way am I compelling you to do something you don't want to do.

[Blade6119]

Dola,

I love the arguement I'm going to vote with person X, but if my vote ends up being bad I'm going to vote for person X tommorrow.

Please Blade, don't do me any favors and vote for someone else if you don't agree with my reasoning. I give my reasons for the vote, agree with them or disagree with them but in no way am I compelling you to do something you don't want to do.
Your not, but anxiety's rule set it. I never approve of a no-lynch or ties...never...so since i see no way im getting you lynched, chief(one of your supporters) is the next best choice.

So dont roll your eyes when i state id rather vote you, but its a wasted vote. Yesterday we had the votes where i could throw one away on you(which i did), today i dont see that yet.

[Alan T]

Your not, but anxiety's rule set it. I never approve of a no-lynch or ties...never...so since i see no way im getting you lynched, chief(one of your supporters) is the next best choice.

So dont roll your eyes when i state id rather vote you, but its a wasted vote. Yesterday we had the votes where i could throw one away on you(which i did), today i dont see that yet.

I never rolled my eyes because you would rather vote for me. I rolled my eyes for the reason I said in my last post. When you state you are voting for chief rum, your reason is as you just stated: Because Lynching chief rum is better in your eyes than no lynch at all. Your previous reasoning that I am compelling you to vote Chief Rum is nonsense.

Or do you have some inside knowledge that Chief Rum is going to turn up good most likely so already hedging your move tommorrow that Chief Rum's innocence = my guilt?

[st.cronin]

I think there's way too much emphasis being placed on early bandwagons. I would like to try this: Everybody cast a vote, then we take roll, and THEN ask those who have "wasted votes" to move them onto a candidate with some chance of getting lynched.

[Jonathan Ezarik]

Or do you have some inside knowledge that Chief Rum is going to turn up good most likely so already hedging your move tommorrow that Chief Rum's innocence = my guilt?

That's how I read it.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Let's keep this a two-man (or two-hobbit, as the case may be) race.

VOTE Lathum

[Lathum]

I like Mr. Wednesday's vote. I encourage a close race. I have no doubt it will help us down the road since I will probably be an early night kill

[Thomkal]

I think there's way too much emphasis being placed on early bandwagons. I would like to try this: Everybody cast a vote, then we take roll, and THEN ask those who have "wasted votes" to move them onto a candidate with some chance of getting lynched.

I like this idea St. Cronin. At least for tomorrow. I have no good reason to vote for anybody today except to vote for someone with a lot of votes of them so we reach a majority. There just hasn't been enough information or reveals to vote otherwise.

vote Chief Rum

[Abe Sargent]

Dodgerchick has agreed to replace Neuqua.

-Anxiety

[st.cronin]

I like Mr. Wednesday's vote. I encourage a close race. I have no doubt it will help us down the road since I will probably be an early night kill

Not if you get a lot votes.

[Tyrith]

the fact that you say you should be paying closer attention throws up flags for me. First you screw up alan and saldana, then throw some accusations at me. Then you claim we are starting a bandwagon when the structure of the game is that a bandwagon is needed for a lynch.

The fact that I am the fourth person to vote for someone ( and I think I was the third) doesn't mean much since we need 8 other people to follow suit.

You are usually very on top of things, I consider you the best "new" player in the game so the fact that you claim you need to pay better attention raises flags all over for me.

I'm allowed to screw up, aren't I? I have two tests and a paper this week; I don't have the time to reread things in the manner I might otherwise.

[Tyrith]

This majority mechanic, with this many people, makes doing good races very difficult. We're looking at a situation where we're either going to just pile on Rum, or we're going to try to start a race with Lathum and have to deal with people moving votes at the very last moment.

As a side note I really don't like this Rum lynch ebcause he isn't around on these days to defend himself -- he could die and be a good role we might get use out of but won't because he can't reveal. Seeing that our reasoning for lynching him is weak I would be of the mind that there were a lot of better places that we could have gone. And some of the early voters had to know this, too.

[KWhit]

I'm really confused. I don't really see CR as a prime suspect yet.

Can someone restate the case against him for me? I must have missed it.

[Alan T]

I'm really confused. I don't really see CR as a prime suspect yet.

Can someone restate the case against him for me? I must have missed it.

My vote today if there was no information from last night that came out was going to be either for you or for him. Both of you came out pretty strongly supporting me which for me is hard to believe a good person without any knowledge of anyone else would be willing to do for the risk of strongly backing a bad guy and then ending up on the lynch block yourself.

I however can see reasons why a bad guy would support a good guy for when I turned up dead due to lynch or night action it would buy you some trust perhaps.

Since Chief Rum spoke the loudest (or perhaps last at least) between you two I voted him. I could have just as easily voted for you however.

Thats my reasons for it. I speak not for any of the other 6 people who voted for him and would prefer they gave their reasons for doing it. We've already seen some try to not take accountability for their actions by saying if the vote ends up bad its my fault.

[Jonathan Ezarik]

Can someone restate the case against him for me? I must have missed it.

I don't think there is one. I voted for him because he was leading in votes. I would rather us have a lynch, but I'm beginning to think it won't happen today.

[Grammaticus]

I would like to see us get a majority or at least be close enough to one that it has an affect. I'm not sure how to take CR at this point, so I can go elsewhere if need be or if a better case is made for someone else.

VOTE CHEIF RUM

[Swaggs]

I want to vote for one of the two leaders tonight--either Chief Rum or Lathum.

I am kind of hanging on Lathum stepping in and defending saldana a little bit earlier today. I know they are friends, but I think that was kind of an odd "reach out" to make in this game, since saldana was doing enough defending on his own. I could move it off if needed, but for now...

Vote Lathum

[ntndeacon]

Vote Lathum

Mainly this is a vote against Chief Rum as being for Lathum. I am not getting a baddie vibe from Rum.

[Sublime 2]

SnDvls will start talking later. He tends to be say a lot with fewer posts than people like Alan, blade, or even myself.

KWhit, well, I thought he would be talking more, but it's been a while since I've seen him play.

With Sublime...I'm conflicted. There is the part of me that wants to be nice to the new guy, let him get settled and such. Then there's the part that remembers that people were nice to me during my first game, I was bad, and I used it to screw them. But for now, give other choices, I'd rather not lynch the newbie.

Sorry, it's tough to get in on the discussion, especially when a lot of the previous day's conversation was on stuff far above my head. Add in that this is my first game, I've been pretty hesitant. Another part of this is that I don't have the knowledge of people's playing styles from previous games that most of you guy's do...despite trying to read some of the games, it's tough keeping track of ppl.

There...maybe that'll break the seal for me.

[Blade6119]

Or do you have some inside knowledge that Chief Rum is going to turn up good most likely so already hedging your move tommorrow that Chief Rum's innocence = my guilt?

I think the odds he turns up evil are firmly stacked against us, especially considering we got lucky yesterday. Ill be pleasently suprised if hes evil, but im entirely expecting him to come up good and you continue to shift blame from yourself by attacking me over my doubts. The only reason were on chief is becuase you and saldana had a little arguement, then suddenly came out a united front against chief. But, like i said...i can vote chief or lathum, and what i saw last game that made me believe lathum was bad is not what im seeing from him this game. So chief it is

So yes, i quite frankly believe he will turn up good, and you will turn the attention again to someone else. Id love to be proven wrong, but i dont expect to be on this matter. I dont have inside knowledge, i have instinct. My instinct tells me he will turn up good.

I just happen to belive chief coming up good might be just the thing we need, if it allows the group to look at who drove the vote in his direction a little more closely. Im quite possibly wrong about you, but you have stated repeatedly i am not on the side of the village, so you are obviously wrong too. I think that fact will be proven again at the lynch, though i certainly hope its not.

[KWhit]

Hmmm... Interesting. And totally misguided.

I am not and was not supporting YOU. I have no idea if you're good, good, bad, or bad.

:)

I was stating my suspicion of Saldana and Blade for their responses to what I took to be general information about the game world of Middle Earth that just so happened to come from you.

I don't know what CR's motivation was, but my comments have simply been of surprise and suspicion of Saldana's and Blade's over-reaction to the comments you made, especially since it appears to me to be a red herring that had the effect of successfully moving the spotlight off of Blade.

So we're voting for CR because he agreed with you? I am not defending CR (and may have to vote for him just to get a mojority) but this seems like a really weak reason to me.

I think Blade, Saldana, or even you AlanT look more suspicious at this point than CR.

[Alan T]

I think the odds he turns up evil are firmly stacked against us, especially considering we got lucky yesterday. Ill be pleasently suprised if hes evil, but im entirely expecting him to come up good and you continue to shift blame from yourself by attacking me over my doubts. The only reason were on chief is becuase you and saldana had a little arguement, then suddenly came out a united front against chief. But, like i said...i can vote chief or lathum, and what i saw last game that made me believe lathum was bad is not what im seeing from him this game. So chief it is

So yes, i quite frankly believe he will turn up good, and you will turn the attention again to someone else. Id love to be proven wrong, but i dont expect to be on this matter. I dont have inside knowledge, i have instinct. My instinct tells me he will turn up good.

I just happen to belive chief coming up good might be just the thing we need, if it allows the group to look at who drove the vote in his direction a little more closely. Im quite possibly wrong about you, but you have stated repeatedly i am not on the side of the village, so you are obviously wrong too. I think that fact will be proven again at the lynch, though i certainly hope its not.

If you think Chief is good, then don't vote him. Sheesh

[st.cronin]

I just happen to belive chief coming up good might be just the thing we need, if it allows the group to look at who drove the vote in his direction a little more closely.

strongly disagree

[Tyrith]

Sorry, it's tough to get in on the discussion, especially when a lot of the previous day's conversation was on stuff far above my head. Add in that this is my first game, I've been pretty hesitant. Another part of this is that I don't have the knowledge of people's playing styles from previous games that most of you guy's do...despite trying to read some of the games, it's tough keeping track of ppl.

There...maybe that'll break the seal for me.

It's okay. It'll get much easier as you play. Also, most games aren't this large, so it's much easier to keep track of things there.

[KWhit]

Anybody have a vote count?

[Alan T]

Anybody have a vote count?

(8) Chief Rum - Saldana (482), Alan (504), Schmidty (552), Lathum (555), Blade (574), Jonathan Ezarik (577), Thomkal (585), Grammaticus (593)
(5) Lathum - St.Cronin (557), Tyrith (565), Mr. Wednesday (583), Swaggs (594), Ntndeacon (595)
(1) Saldana - Chief Rum (446)
(1) Blade - Izulde (484)
(1) St.cronin - Sndvls (532)
(1) Spleen - BrianD (554)

[DaddyTorgo]

hmmm. just finally got in from going in to work (and getting transferred) and dinner with a glass of wine to catch up on the 4 pages of today.

so CR is the prime suspect and Lathum is the #2?

Jon-I already explained that I voted late last night because I didn't get online till late, as with today, not getting on till around 8pm EST. So I only have 2 hours before the vote to catchup and cast a vote. As for tonight, we still don't know anything beyond that Scoobz was...a questionable character...did we even figure out if he was "evil" or just "shadowey?" Fouts we know was good. It's still a bit early to draw anything out of voting patterns/records, so I guess we have to go with reading people's posts to see how they're acting.

So what exactly is the case for Rum? Although I have sort of seen this type of behavior from him before in the first game I played where he led me down a path and had me buying into his goodness while he was evil. But he does have work-related things, that much I remember.

What's the case for Lathum? Anyone? I think if we were going to look at anyone it'd be saldana for his vigerous early attacks...no?

[Blade6119]

strongly disagree

I think right now that both lathum and chief are good, so i have to find a way to distinguish the two. Of the two, i see more positives in chief's death then lathums...my opinion, take it for what it is

[Blade6119]

If you think Chief is good, then don't vote him. Sheesh

I dont think lathum or chief are bad, but i have to pick one. Vote you again and ill start to get accused of throwing my vote away. If you dont care, and will support me when those calls come, ill happily swap my vote to you.

[KWhit]

Vote Lathum.

I think our reasoning for CR is weak and hopefully this will get things closer and therfore tell us a little more down the line.

I may move this vote if I have to to get a majority though.

[st.cronin]

If you think Chief is good, then don't vote him. Sheesh

strongly agree

[Alan T]

I dont think lathum or chief are bad, but i have to pick one. Vote you again and ill start to get accused of throwing my vote away. If you dont care, and will support me when those calls come, ill happily swap my vote to you.

Does it really matter what I say when anything i say you use to try to get others to distrust me? If you compared posts side by side between you and me and looked to see who was the more accusatory of the two from day 1, everyone would easily see its been you trying to get me lynched since day 1 and not the other way around.

My opinion is you should do what you feel is in the best interest of your side (whatever that is in this game at this point) and don't even think about blaming your actions on me tommorrow. I'm not telling you who to vote for, I am using your vote to judge you further.

[Grammaticus]

hmmm. just finally got in from going in to work (and getting transferred) and dinner with a glass of wine to catch up on the 4 pages of today.



Well, did you get the promotion or was it a transfer to siberia?

[Blade6119]

UNVOTE CHIEF RUM

VOTE ALAN T

Fine, but dont come back in two days saying why am i throwing my vote away and avoiding lynches

[DaddyTorgo]

Well, did you get the promotion or was it a transfer to siberia?


didn't get the promotion, but got a short-term transfer to a location that about halves my commute and shouldn't be for more than a couple months till i get the promotion.

so that's good i guess.

still pondering the vote. I think I'm going to go out for an hour, get a coffee and walk the dog and mull my vote...vote in the last hour before lynch...if that's okay and not-suspicious with everyone.

[st.cronin]

I think right now that both lathum and chief are good, so i have to find a way to distinguish the two. Of the two, i see more positives in chief's death then lathums...my opinion, take it for what it is

I feel quite strongly that sal and al are both villagers. I think you're muttering "my precious" up the wrong tree.

I do agree that it's possible, even likely, that Lathum and CR are both villagers. A game this large, and particularly with this ruleset, I think we are best served by looking at those players who are utr.

[Swaggs]

UNVOTE CHIEF RUM

VOTE ALAN T

Fine, but dont come back in two days saying why am i throwing my vote away and avoiding lynches

Blade, aren't you on the side of light?

Don't throw a vote away out of spite. We need to build a track record.

[Jonathan Ezarik]

As for tonight, we still don't know anything beyond that Scoobz was...a questionable character...did we even figure out if he was "evil" or just "shadowey?"

5. Scoobz0202 - Lynched Day One. Silvos the Dark Adept, on the side of darkness.

[Sublime 2]

Vote Lathum

Like others have said, it's good to see a two player 'race' to see what happens, so for now I'm going to vote Lathum, unless votes are needed for another at the deadline.

[Alan T]

UNVOTE CHIEF RUM

VOTE ALAN T

Fine, but dont come back in two days saying why am i throwing my vote away and avoiding lynches

Just making sure I understand it correctly when its my fault if you vote for Chief Rum and its my fault if you don't vote for Chief Rum. :)

[st.cronin]

UNVOTE CHIEF RUM

VOTE ALAN T

Fine, but dont come back in two days saying why am i throwing my vote away and avoiding lynches

I disagree with that vote, but I'd rather have people voting for those they think are bad, even if it results in no lynch. No lynch is NOT a terrible play - it's not a good play, but there are situations in which it's good for the village.

[Grammaticus]

I feel quite strongly that sal and al are both villagers. I think you're muttering "my precious" up the wrong tree.

I do agree that it's possible, even likely, that Lathum and CR are both villagers. A game this large, and particularly with this ruleset, I think we are best served by looking at those players who are utr.

Who would you suggest? I can definately go the UTR route. The majority thing is just causing problems.

[Tyrith]

UNVOTE CHIEF RUM

VOTE ALAN T

Fine, but dont come back in two days saying why am i throwing my vote away and avoiding lynches

If he does I've got your back.

[Lathum]

OK, so to this point we have gotten alot of info. We need to look at the people who have voted for someone other the myself or CR. And I know I am good so I am suspicous of the people who are voting for me. If we do lynch CR and he comes up bad we have a strong start to work off of and if we lynch me that is a sacrifice I'm willing to make.

[Tyrith]

I feel quite strongly that sal and al are both villagers. I think you're muttering "my precious" up the wrong tree.

I do agree that it's possible, even likely, that Lathum and CR are both villagers. A game this large, and particularly with this ruleset, I think we are best served by looking at those players who are utr.

I agree, but it's hard to come up with any good reason to motivate a UTR lynch, at least that people will follow along with. Unless it's like yesterday and someone just isn't playing.

[st.cronin]

Who would you suggest? I can definately go the UTR route. The majority thing is just causing problems.

In a big game like this, there's going to be a lot of people utr, plus it's pretty early to really have a handle on anybody. It's really all about perception.

I agree, the majority thing is killing us. If we just bandwagon on the first guy to get two votes every day, we're going to get killed.

[Tyrith]

I disagree with that vote, but I'd rather have people voting for those they think are bad, even if it results in no lynch. No lynch is NOT a terrible play - it's not a good play, but there are situations in which it's good for the village.

I'm glad there is someone besides me that isn't so bloodthristy they have to kill every day :)

[spleen1015]

Being a victim of the way Chief Rum has played previous and the way he is playing now means...

VOTE Chief Rum

I said earlier that I would vote for him unless something changed and I don't see anything to change it.

I also find it neat that Tyrith is so aginst voting for him today. If Chief is bad, then Tyrith jumps to the top of the list for me.

[Lorena]

I just got back from the gym and received my PM. C-ya'll in a little bit...

[Blade6119]

Blade, aren't you on the side of light?

Don't throw a vote away out of spite. We need to build a track record.

Is that a joke?

I cant do anything right..either im voting for someone i dont believe is bad, and people dont like it...or im voting someone who is not in the race, and people dont like it...i love this game

[Tyrith]

Being a victim of the way Chief Rum has played previous and the way he is playing now means...

VOTE Chief Rum

I said earlier that I would vote for him unless something changed and I don't see anything to change it.

I also find it neat that Tyrith is so aginst voting for him today. If Chief is bad, then Tyrith jumps to the top of the list for me.

I'm not so against, but we have SO MANY OPTIONS right now. Why pick a guy that isn't going to be around to defend himself? What possible good motivation is there to it? I understand Alan doing it; he has a precise reason. But some of the other early votes were just "oh, he acts like this when he's bad", while it's probably a couple days too early for that, and the rest is a sheer dogpile. Why not pick someone that could reveal a good role if they have one instead of taking it to the grave with themselves? If you want to lynch me for having independent thoughts tomorrow, sure, go ahead.

[Tyrith]

Is that a joke?

I cant do anything right..either im voting for someone i dont believe is bad, and people dont like it...or im voting someone who is not in the race, and people dont like it...i love this game

Yeah, this is really annoying overall. No matter what you do there is someone that can make an argument that will wind up with you dead...that's how I feel about all the votes today. No matter what happens if someone is willing to charge at you enough they can find something incriminating today.

[Swaggs]

Is that a joke?

I cant do anything right..either im voting for someone i dont believe is bad, and people dont like it...or im voting someone who is not in the race, and people dont like it...i love this game

It's no joke at all. With 25 people, this is still like a day 1 vote. I doubt either of these guys are on the dark side, either, but it worked yesterday. And, if it turns out that this is a close, two-man race, vote, we may be able to look back on today's and yesterday's votes to put together a decent list of suspects, particularly since we did hit yesterday.

I can understand your frustration, but don't play angry. Play smart.

[SnDvls]

I don't like chief or lathum as a vote today so I'm not moving my vote.

[Tyrith]

It's no joke at all. With 25 people, this is still like a day 1 vote. I doubt either of these guys are on the dark side, either, but it worked yesterday. And, if it turns out that this is a close, two-man race, vote, we may be able to look back on today's and yesterday's votes to put together a decent list of suspects, particularly since we did hit yesterday.

I can understand your frustration, but don't play angry. Play smart.

You aren't the one he's frustrated at. He's frustrated because he changed his vote because Alan told him to vote for who he thought was bad, and here you are arguing the exact opposite way. He's screwed into a corner because no matter what he does one of you will be able to argue he wasn't doing what he should be.

[SnDvls]

It's no joke at all. With 25 people, this is still like a day 1 vote. I doubt either of these guys are on the dark side, either, but it worked yesterday. And, if it turns out that this is a close, two-man race, vote, we may be able to look back on today's and yesterday's votes to put together a decent list of suspects, particularly since we did hit yesterday.

I can understand your frustration, but don't play angry. Play smart.

I'm sorry, but yesterday was a joke for voting. I started it on scoobz with thinking he never really intended to sign up. Anxiety corrected that for us stating that scoobz was in fact playing.

It was a shot at someone who didn't check in. almost everyone jumped on him, some sooner than others, but there really wasn't a lot to look at with him.

[st.cronin]

btw, these were the first four votes for scoobz:

sndvls
alant
lsg
fouts

The first three are my circle of trust right now.

[Tyrith]

I'm sorry, but yesterday was a joke for voting. I started it on scoobz with thinking he never really intended to sign up. Anxiety corrected that for us stating that scoobz was in fact playing.

It was a shot at someone who didn't check in. almost everyone jumped on him, some sooner than others, but there really wasn't a lot to look at with him.

Yes. Yesterday's vote was totally not about allegiance -- it would not surprise me if bad guys were in on it because the writing was on the wall. Today is going to be fairly bad if we even get a lynch off because there are people that are voting for the sake of getting a lynch, not because of allegiance again. Overanalyzing these first few days of voting is going to cause us to make bad lynches later...in fact, overanalysis tends to get us into trouble no matter what it's about, at least historically.

[Alan T]

You aren't the one he's frustrated at. He's frustrated because he changed his vote because Alan told him to vote for who he thought was bad, and here you are arguing the exact opposite way. He's screwed into a corner because no matter what he does one of you will be able to argue he wasn't doing what he should be.

Like I said, don't pin anything on me. I only said for him to vote who he wants to vote and leave me out of it. I'm not forcing him to vote anyone and I'm using his votes to judge him. I said this in my post to him. If he thinks I'm bad then so be it. I'm not the one attacking him, he's attacking me. I just want him to stop saying I have ultimate power over his will and decisions.

[SnDvls]

okay I'll bring up the no lynch option like others have

in the rules it says that darkness can overwhelm the good. a 1:1 ratio isn't the wolves winning condition as they can overwhelm us.

are we thinking that might be a 2 to 1 ratio (good to bad)? why don't you vote for who you want if we don't lynch we don't lynch, but the evil will have to make a kill and our seer or bodyguard will eventually nab someone.

we can forced the darkness's hand here. make them do the work. as people die we can see their votes and see who is still around.

[Swaggs]

I'm sorry, but yesterday was a joke for voting. I started it on scoobz with thinking he never really intended to sign up. Anxiety corrected that for us stating that scoobz was in fact playing.

It was a shot at someone who didn't check in. almost everyone jumped on him, some sooner than others, but there really wasn't a lot to look at with him.

Do you think his teammates didn't know who he was? Do you think they piled on? Do you think they may have piled on after the die was cast, so they wouldn't look bad?

I think there is information to take away from the Day 1 vote. Sorry if you disagree.

[Blade6119]

btw, these were the first four votes for scoobz:

sndvls
alant
lsg
fouts

The first three are my circle of trust right now.

Heres my problem with this...we have two evil factions, who cannot win the game with the other. So both evil factions want to eliminate the other, and likely dont know its members. So i can assume the first 3 are good, as the other evil faction had just as much reason to want scoobz dead as the rest of us.

[Tyrith]

btw, these were the first four votes for scoobz:

sndvls
alant
lsg
fouts

The first three are my circle of trust right now.

I can understand trusting them more than other people, mathematically, but like last game there is always the situation where both one of the voters and the target were bad, they just didn't know it. So while I agree with you it's to be weighed in the context of the game, as we eventually figure out what the rules actually are.

[Alan T]

btw, these were the first four votes for scoobz:

sndvls
alant
lsg
fouts

The first three are my circle of trust right now.

With there being 4 sides, even if Scoobz was on Saruman's side like I thought, I don't think you can say any of us (including myself) who voted for him isn't necessarily on Sauron's side. I think yesterday's vote might tell us about who was on Saruman's side, but not who is necessarily good or bad

[SnDvls]

btw, these were the first four votes for scoobz:

sndvls
alant
lsg
fouts

The first three are my circle of trust right now.


funny thing is you said I wasn't there yesterday (I know it was day one,but it was funny at the time) and today I'm voting for you because of your vote for me yesterday and that I wanted to hear more from you today. (which you are giving me)

just found it ironic :)

[Blade6119]

so i cant*

[st.cronin]

I would call the following players utr, just at first glance:

BrianD
ntndeacon
Schmidty
Mr. Wednesday
Izulde
Thomkal
Grammaticus
Sublime2
DaddyTorgo

[st.cronin]

Oh, I totally realize that one of those players could be bad. It's a starting point, is all.

[SnDvls]

Do you think his teammates didn't know who he was? Do you think they piled on? Do you think they may have piled on after the die was cast, so they wouldn't look bad?

I think there is information to take away from the Day 1 vote. Sorry if you disagree.

I think that info can be taken from it, but not by lynching a good guy today.

see this game isn't like most (at this point with so many people required to lynch) where a simple majority lynches. we have to have half plus one.

[DaddyTorgo]

aaargh. i don't know...there's really not that much to go on at this point, beside CR seeming suspicious for a bit. why did everyone get away from saldana after his attack on CR again?

[SnDvls]

dola - not saying lathum or CR are good either I just don't like them today

[DaddyTorgo]

st cronin...how am i UTR? I have plenty of posts in here, and I havn't been around 800 hours a day true, but that's because RL has reared its ugly head a bit.

[Tyrith]

I think that info can be taken from it, but not by lynching a good guy today.

see this game isn't like most (at this point with so many people required to lynch) where a simple majority lynches. we have to have half plus one.

A simple majority is a half plus one, aka 51 out of 100 as in the US Senate. Most of our games have lynches done by a plurality instead of a majority. Just a semantic difference in terminology.

[Swaggs]

I think that info can be taken from it, but not by lynching a good guy today.

see this game isn't like most (at this point with so many people required to lynch) where a simple majority lynches. we have to have half plus one.

So, you have some inside knowledge that they are good guys?

[SnDvls]

Heres my problem with this...we have two evil factions, who cannot win the game with the other. So both evil factions want to eliminate the other, and likely dont know its members. So i can assume the first 3 are good, as the other evil faction had just as much reason to want scoobz dead as the rest of us.

not true

evil wins when they overwhelm good

they both win just not a major victory

[st.cronin]

st cronin...how am i UTR? I have plenty of posts in here, and I havn't been around 800 hours a day true, but that's because RL has reared its ugly head a bit.

*shrug* Others will have their own ideas about who is utr, or what it means to be utr - making lots of posts, to me, doesn't mean anything.

[DaddyTorgo]

not true

evil wins when they overwhelm good

they both win just not a major victory


well we're already -1 evildoer. and -1 good guy too, but with their smaller original #'s and the goodguy not being a ranger I think we have the upper hand.

[SnDvls]

A simple majority is a half plus one, aka 51 out of 100 as in the US Senate. Most of our games have lynches done by a plurality instead of a majority. Just a semantic difference in terminology.

sorry that's what I ment.

thanks for clarifying it.

[Swaggs]

dola - not saying lathum or CR are good either I just don't like them today

Outside of a seer or witness fingering someone, what is enough to justify voting for someone on day 1 or day 2? If you want no lynch, that is fine, but I think it is smart to build a track record and start taking using the tools available to us to solve things.

[Blade6119]

So, you have some inside knowledge that they are good guys?

This argument has been posed multiple times today and has no base whatsoever.

Even if i was evil, and knew Chief and Lathum werent in my faction, he could still be in the other evil faction.

So how could anyone, on day 2, know 2 people are good already???

[DaddyTorgo]

*shrug* Others will have their own ideas about who is utr, or what it means to be utr - making lots of posts, to me, doesn't mean anything.


still trying to get a handle on such a big game. it's only my what...3rd game? 1st real big game. and i'm probably falling into the geekiness too much.

[SnDvls]

well we're already -1 evildoer. and -1 good guy too, but with their smaller original #'s and the goodguy not being a ranger I think we have the upper hand.


if you assume that evil only needs a 1:1 ratio

the rules seem to state that a 2:1 good to dark ratio could win them the game too.

it isn't clear, but it does infer that if it gets to a 1:1 we lose.

[SnDvls]

So, you have some inside knowledge that they are good guys?

no and I stated that

I just don't like them as lynch canidates for today.

[BrianD]

So with all the people not liking the two lynch candidates, has anyone put forth another candidate?

[st.cronin]

still trying to get a handle on such a big game. it's only my what...3rd game? 1st real big game. and i'm probably falling into the geekiness too much.

There is no doubt whatsoever in my mind that there are some villagers on my utr list, in the same way that it's possible that one of the early voters for scooby was bad. It's a starting point, that's all.

[SnDvls]

Winning Conditions:

The game ends when the forces of darkness can overwhelm those of light, or when all of the darkness is destroyed.

For purposes of overwhelming, one agent of darkness can overtake two villagers with no problem. They are sheep and easily pacified. However, the rangers are much more difficult. It takes two agents to overcome each ranger. (So, for example, if 8 players are left, three agents and five townfolk, then the agents of darkness win, because three agents can take five villagers with no problem.)

If someone is not a townsfolk, nor a ranger, nobody knows how easily pacified they are.


Victory Conditions:

Townsfolk of Bree: A major victory if darkness is removed.

Rangers of the North: Major victory if darkness is removed and at least one ranger survives. No victory if all rangers die, no matter what happens to darkness.

Agents of Sauron: Major victory if darkness wins and no Agents of Saruman are alive.

Agents of Saruman: Major victory if darkness wins and no Agents of Sauron remain.

If the Agents of Darkness win, and both Sauron and Saruman are still represented, a power struggle begins. The GM will determine which faction wrests control and which faction is ousted.

For those who may not be aligned with a faction, they will have their own victory conditions spelled out in their role pm.




I stand corrected it does state a 2:1 ratio provided there are no rangers and no strong outsider.

[Blade6119]

So with all the people not liking the two lynch candidates, has anyone put forth another candidate?

Ive said Alan for two days, and i know a few people want me

[Lathum]

I'm not so against, but we have SO MANY OPTIONS right now. Why pick a guy that isn't going to be around to defend himself? What possible good motivation is there to it? I understand Alan doing it; he has a precise reason. But some of the other early votes were just "oh, he acts like this when he's bad", while it's probably a couple days too early for that, and the rest is a sheer dogpile. Why not pick someone that could reveal a good role if they have one instead of taking it to the grave with themselves? If you want to lynch me for having independent thoughts tomorrow, sure, go ahead.


now why would you want someone to do that?

[BrianD]

Ive said Alan for two days, and i know a few people want me

Right, so we have already established that we are playing WereWolf. :)

[SnDvls]

Outside of a seer or witness fingering someone, what is enough to justify voting for someone on day 1 or day 2? If you want no lynch, that is fine, but I think it is smart to build a track record and start taking using the tools available to us to solve things.

you can build a track record with a vote and no lynch still.

it is used in many games when a bad guy is caught to see who they voted for ect.

also used to see who a dead seer voted for assuming they survive past night 1 (unlike me in the football game)

[SnDvls]

(8) Chief Rum - Saldana (482), Alan (504), Schmidty (552), Lathum (555), Blade (574), Jonathan Ezarik (577), Thomkal (585), Grammaticus (593)
(5) Lathum - St.Cronin (557), Tyrith (565), Mr. Wednesday (583), Swaggs (594), Ntndeacon (595)
(1) Saldana - Chief Rum (446)
(1) Blade - Izulde (484)
(1) St.cronin - Sndvls (532)
(1) Spleen - BrianD (554)

brian here's vote recap...little outdated, but still a starting point

[Tyrith]

now why would you want someone to do that?

I'm saying that if we're going to lynch a guy we should pick someone that has the chance of coming out and saying that they're important if they are. Granted that we're going to going after someone, I'd much rather someone who was about to be killed tell us that they were important than just dying with the information.

[SnDvls]

OOC: be back bath time

[DaddyTorgo]

i'm not a big fan of either CR or lathum honestly. I think it's quite likely that they're both good.

no one has put forth another viable candidate though, so i suppose i'll just hop on the bandwagon of one...and of the two I think we would learn more from putting Lathum under a microscope as CR isn't here to defend himself and convince us. However I fear it's too late for that, hmm?

[Tyrith]

Right now I count it chief 8, lathum 7, others less.

[Grammaticus]

not true

evil wins when they overwhelm good

they both win just not a major victory

Where are you getting that from?

Here is what the rules post says:

Agents of Sauron: Major victory if darkness wins and no Agents of Saruman are alive.

Agents of Saruman: Major victory if darkness wins and no Agents of Sauron remain.

If the Agents of Darkness win, and both Sauron and Saruman are still represented, a power struggle begins. The GM will determine which faction wrests control and which faction is ousted.

Nothing about a minor victory or any other type of victory is specified. It appears to be winner take all within the dark side.

[saldana]

aaargh. i don't know...there's really not that much to go on at this point, beside CR seeming suspicious for a bit. why did everyone get away from saldana after his attack on CR again?

please quote the post in which i attacked CR....i made two posts, one asking him to explain his logic, and one saying that he has a habit of accusations without thinking them through and then voting for him...both of these came after he voted for me first....i havent said a word about him since, so how exactly am i driving the vote against him....if you are gonna come at me, bring something more than a complete exaggeration of what was actually said.:rolleyes:

[Jonathan Ezarik]

I would call the following players utr, just at first glance:

BrianD
ntndeacon
Schmidty
Mr. Wednesday
Izulde
Thomkal
Grammaticus
Sublime2
DaddyTorgo


You left off LoneStarGirl.

[Tyrith]

Where are you getting that from?

Here is what the rules post says:



Nothing about a minor victory or any other type of victory is specified. It appears to be winner take all within the dark side.

Major victory implies that there are other victory conditions. And if you were playing on darkness and you overwhelm good wouldn't you consider it a partial victory? :)

[LoneStarGirl]

Okay guys, i am here, but im on page 9, so give me a minute

[BrianD]

You left off LoneStarGirl.

Because she is on his team?

[DaddyTorgo]

please quote the post in which i attacked CR....i made two posts, one asking him to explain his logic, and one saying that he has a habit of accusations without thinking them through and then voting for him...both of these came after he voted for me first....i havent said a word about him since, so how exactly am i driving the vote against him....if you are gonna come at me, bring something more than a complete exaggeration of what was actually said.:rolleyes:


okay...fair enough. fair enough. i honestly was just going off impressions and hazy memories rather than reading a specific post. i need to get better about that. attack withdrawn

[DaddyTorgo]

so do we want to go with CR? or another for Lathum? the vote is pretty close

[Grammaticus]

Major victory implies that there are other victory conditions. And if you were playing on darkness and you overwhelm good wouldn't you consider it a partial victory? :)

Not if the rules don't specify it or the GM let me know via PM.

[Grammaticus]

You left off LoneStarGirl.

As well as CR who actually has been UTR both in number of posts as well as post content.

[Lathum]

I'm saying that if we're going to lynch a guy we should pick someone that has the chance of coming out and saying that they're important if they are. Granted that we're going to going after someone, I'd much rather someone who was about to be killed tell us that they were important than just dying with the information.

so your saying you are trying to get a good guy to reveal by voting for him....


Honestly I am a plain villegar so if I am lynched all you'll get is voting patterns which could be helpfull.

[Tyrith]

Not if the rules don't specify it or the GM let me know via PM.

Well, suffice it to say that if darkness overwhelms good the remaining good players are out of the game, and it wouldn't surprise me if it's in bad's best interests to get us out of the way before they completely decimate each other.

[st.cronin]

You left off LoneStarGirl.

I guess you didn't read my OTHER list, where I explained why she was in my cot. That's cool.

[Tyrith]

so your saying you are trying to get a good guy to reveal by voting for him....


Honestly I am a plain villegar so if I am lynched all you'll get is voting patterns which could be helpfull.

No, Lathum, fricking try to understand. If we ARE going to kill someone, which we are, and we aren't going to know anything about it, then wouldn't you rather someone with a good role be able to TELL US instead of just dying? We don't know role information on ANYONE so you can't say bull---- about it? We don't KNOW anyone is good, so stop trying to miscontrue my arguments you wolf.

[st.cronin]

As well as CR who actually has been UTR both in number of posts as well as post content.

Well, I don't know how you define UTR, but I say anybody getting as many votes as Chief Rum is very much on the radar.

[LoneStarGirl]

Okay, I dont like that lathum jumped on the chief rum bandwagon, but he has been bad in what, the last 4 games? No way he could be bad this game too. Plus, I really dont think Blade is bad for those that keep jumping on him... He's just weird :)

[Mr. Wednesday]

btw, these were the first four votes for scoobz:

sndvls
alant
lsg
fouts

The first three are my circle of trust right now.

Why?

* He was the dark adept, not associated with a faction, so chances are pretty good that none of the bad guys realized what he was.

* There was no night one, so there is zero chance of a seer or that sort being involved.

I tell you, we did well to get the dark adept out of the game yesterday, but there is NOTHING to take out of the vote!

[Mr. Wednesday]

Er, no night zero.

[Lorena]

Almost caught up. If I vote at the last minute, don't hold it against me alright?

[Tyrith]

Why?

* He was the dark adept, not associated with a faction, so chances are pretty good that none of the bad guys realized what he was.

* There was no night one, so there is zero chance of a seer or that sort being involved.

I tell you, we did well to get the dark adept out of the game yesterday, but there is NOTHING to take out of the vote!

I completely and totally agree with this. Please don't try to take too much out of yesterday's vote.

[Jonathan Ezarik]

I guess you didn't read my OTHER list, where I explained why she was in my cot. That's cool.

Because she was one of the first four votes for Scoobz?

[Mr. Wednesday]

Do you think his teammates didn't know who he was? Do you think they piled on? Do you think they may have piled on after the die was cast, so they wouldn't look bad?
I think he DIDN'T HAVE TEAMMATES!

During the day, it was perfect for the bad guys, because there was never any risk involved; the leading votegetter was not on their team and he won in a runaway. It turned out poorly for them, because it wasn't a player they wanted to lose, but they were not exposed in any way in the vote.

I think there is information to take away from the Day 1 vote. Sorry if you disagree.
I think there's minimal information available. MAYBE we can try to tag the people in the middle of the vote who didn't go for a race, but I think that's a low-percentage play.

[DaddyTorgo]

anyone...is there an actual case against lathum?

[st.cronin]

Why?

* He was the dark adept, not associated with a faction, so chances are pretty good that none of the bad guys realized what he was.

* There was no night one, so there is zero chance of a seer or that sort being involved.

I tell you, we did well to get the dark adept out of the game yesterday, but there is NOTHING to take out of the vote!

I'm sorry, how do we know this? I see no mention of it in the rules. It just says he was on the side of darkness. Are you just assuming this?

[LoneStarGirl]

You left off LoneStarGirl.

Awww, are you paying close attention to me? I feel special ;)

[Tyrith]

anyone...is there an actual case against lathum?

About as much as there is an actual case against CR.

[Tyrith]

I'm sorry, how do we know this? I see no mention of it in the rules. It just says he was on the side of darkness. Are you just assuming this?

Because he wasn't revealed to be with a faction and factional affliations are revealed upon death.

[LoneStarGirl]

Okay, I agree that lathum and cheif aren't standing out to me. But i have always said a no-lynch is only good for the wolves. And since Cheif is leading the pack, i will help by voting him. Plus, like i said, no way lathum can be bad 4 games in a row!

vote cheif rum

[DaddyTorgo]

About as much as there is an actual case against CR.


blah. I don't feel like voting for either of them. neither of them has really...roused my suspiscion.

[Lorena]

14 members... nice! So do any of you 13 people out there have an updated post count? The last one I saw was Alan's and a few people voted for Lathum after that.

Thanks.

[Jonathan Ezarik]

It just said that Scoobz wasn't allied with Sauron and that he was dealing with sorcery. That means Saruman.

[Tyrith]

The way Lathum took my arguments makes me think he's bad, or he's playing sloppy like he accused me of. He's still very high on my watch list...that said, the way Swaggs is playing now is making me even more suspicious, and since Lathum isn't gonna get lynched tonight I'm switching.

UNVOTE LATHUM
VOTE SWAGGS

[st.cronin]

anyone...is there an actual case against lathum?

I voted for him because he suggested that there was an unsuccesful conversion. This could mean

- the forces of darkness tried to convert him and for some reason failed
- he is in league with the forces of darkness, and is trying to confuse us with rumors
- he is a witness and has some knowledge of night activities
- he has no idea what happened last night and is just taking a WAG

Cases 1 and 3 he would be better served to just tell us "this happened last night." Case 2 he is a good lynch, case 4, well, who knows. I voted for him, but I'm not sold on the lynch.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Plus, like i said, no way lathum can be bad 4 games in a row!
Statistical fallacy -- this game is an independent event, the fact that he was "bad" in previous games makes it no more or less likely for him to be bad in this game. :)

[BrianD]

I should probably join the race since my guy isn't in it.

Unvote Spleen
Vote Lathum

[Mr. Wednesday]

Agreed that Lathum isn't going to get lynched. Dunno if we should be letting him off the hook this early, nor if he had enough presence during the day to be any value for voting analysis down the road, but...

UNVOTE Lathum
VOTE Chief Rum

[Alan T]

Why?

* He was the dark adept, not associated with a faction, so chances are pretty good that none of the bad guys realized what he was.

* There was no night one, so there is zero chance of a seer or that sort being involved.

I tell you, we did well to get the dark adept out of the game yesterday, but there is NOTHING to take out of the vote!

I disagree with stating this so factually. I still stand by my feeling that he was part of saruman's team if not the head of it. For arguement case you have to at least assume he could have been part of one of the teams until we see a listing for another bad guy list their side.

[KWhit]

The way Lathum took my arguments makes me think he's bad, or he's playing sloppy like he accused me of. He's still very high on my watch list...that said, the way Swaggs is playing now is making me even more suspicious, and since Lathum isn't gonna get lynched tonight I'm switching.

UNVOTE LATHUM
VOTE SWAGGS

That doesn't make sense to me. You say that you think Lathum's bad. But you move your vote to somebody that you KNOW isn't going to get lynched.

Lathum is still in the race. If you're going to move your vote, it doesn't make sense to move it to Swaggs. Or am I missing something?

Huh?

[Swaggs]

The way Lathum took my arguments makes me think he's bad, or he's playing sloppy like he accused me of. He's still very high on my watch list...that said, the way Swaggs is playing now is making me even more suspicious, and since Lathum isn't gonna get lynched tonight I'm switching.

UNVOTE LATHUM
VOTE SWAGGS

I am on the side of light, are you?

[DaddyTorgo]

I voted for him because he suggested that there was an unsuccesful conversion. This could mean

- the forces of darkness tried to convert him and for some reason failed
- he is in league with the forces of darkness, and is trying to confuse us with rumors
- he is a witness and has some knowledge of night activities
- he has no idea what happened last night and is just taking a WAG

Cases 1 and 3 he would be better served to just tell us "this happened last night." Case 2 he is a good lynch, case 4, well, who knows. I voted for him, but I'm not sold on the lynch.


thanks Cronin. that's at least more than we have on CR.

VOTE LATHUM

[Tyrith]

I disagree with stating this so factually. I still stand by my feeling that he was part of saruman's team if not the head of it. For arguement case you have to at least assume he could have been part of one of the teams until we see a listing for another bad guy list their side.

Then what do you make of the rules saying that a dead guy's faction is revealed?

[Mr. Wednesday]

It just said that Scoobz wasn't allied with Sauron and that he was dealing with sorcery. That means Saruman.
Or, since he was not revealed to be in Saruman's faction, that he was some sort of susceptible player who was a sorceror type (in the lingo of standard WW games) or a "conversion target" type. I feel pretty strongly that it was one of the latter two.

[DaddyTorgo]

Tyrith is moving up my radar quickly.

[Tyrith]

Hrm...well now if Mr.W and I were back on Lathum it'd be 9-9. We still need three more votes on a candidate, though, if we want to lynch.

[KWhit]

thanks Cronin. that's at least more than we have on CR.

VOTE LATHUM

Yes. I agree. It isn't much, but .... heck, we don't have much on anybody at this point.

[SnDvls]

Where are you getting that from?

Here is what the rules post says:



Nothing about a minor victory or any other type of victory is specified. It appears to be winner take all within the dark side.

both groups are darkness, yes?

if they overwhelm us then "darkness" wins

then the GM determines who of the two darkness factions wins the whole thing.

[Grammaticus]

Well, I don't know how you define UTR, but I say anybody getting as many votes as Chief Rum is very much on the radar.

That is off point. One of the reasons he has gotten votes today, at the beginning of the day is because of his UTR play and how that is somewhat out of character for him. This is probably the biggest reason I vote for him over Lathum.

Yeah he is now on the radar as anyone else on your list would be once votes start accumulating.

[st.cronin]

Well, this is an utter disaster.

[Tyrith]

Tyrith is moving up my radar quickly.

What the heck for? If I was a bad guy don't you think I'd be slightly more intelligent than to spend two days randomly not reading posts and acting like a chicken with my head cut off? Do you really have so little respect for my intelligence? And has there ever been a situation where a guy like me is acting dumb and _not_ controlling the conversation where they actually turned up bad?

[Jonathan Ezarik]

Updated vote count for Dodgerchick:

Saldana - 1 (by Chief Rum)
Chief Rum - 10 (by saldana, Alan T, Schmidty, Lathum, Jonathan, Thomkal, Grammaticus, spleen, LoneStarGirl, Mr. Wednesday)
Blade - 1 (by Izulde)
st.cronin - 1 (by SnDvls)
Lathum - 7 (by st.cronin, Swaggs, ntndeacon, KWhit, Sublime, BrianD, DaddyTorgo)
Alan T - 1 (Blade)
Swaggs - 1 (Tyrith)

[st.cronin]

That is off point. One of the reasons he has gotten votes today, at the beginning of the day is because of his UTR play and how that is somewhat out of character for him. This is probably the biggest reason I vote for him over Lathum.

Yeah he is now on the radar as anyone else on your list would be once votes start accumulating.

Like I said, we all have a different understanding of utr.

[DaddyTorgo]

What the heck for? If I was a bad guy don't you think I'd be slightly more intelligent than to spend two days randomly not reading posts and acting like a chicken with my head cut off? Do you really have so little respect for my intelligence? And has there ever been a situation where a guy like me is acting dumb and _not_ controlling the conversation where they actually turned up bad?


you just seem really quick to accuse. *shrug*

[Lathum]

man Tyrith, you are really gunning for me. How are you so sure when you have claimed you need to pay better attention?

You are gonna look pretty bad once I come up smelling like roses.

[Tyrith]

you just seem really quick to accuse. *shrug*

To be honest, right now I'm pretty angry at this game in general. I'm frustrated because of the way the last three games went totally awful, I botched yesterday, I'm generally not focused, and we're all running all over the place in a manner that gives anyone who wants a specific person to die ample ammunition to make it happen if they've got the political power. This is _insanely_ frustrating, and my trigger finger just wants to make someone that's been talking today die, but it won't happen.

[Tyrith]

man Tyrith, you are really gunning for me. How are you so sure when you have claimed you need to pay better attention?

You are gonna look pretty bad once I come up smelling like roses.

Because I was paying attention during that argument, and you know it. If you are a good guy you are doing your best to twist around my arguments, which I will take as a personal attack and respond to accordingly.

[Lathum]

Because I was paying attention during that argument, and you know it. If you are a good guy you are doing your best to twist around my arguments, which I will take as a personal attack and respond to accordingly.

you really shouldn't be so worried unless you have something to hide.

[Grammaticus]

Then what do you make of the rules saying that a dead guy's faction is revealed?

It does say that faction, role and affiliation are revealed upon death.

[Alan T]

Then what do you make of the rules saying that a dead guy's faction is revealed?

I think he was revealed as on the side of dark. I think we'll know for sure one way or another when another bad guy is lynched.

Right now I wouldn't likely press for people who didn't vote for him, and likewise I wouldn't create a cot of people who did vote for him as I already said. But I likewise think dismissing that he was on a team is a fallicy too.

[DaddyTorgo]

you really shouldn't be so worried unless you have something to hide.

touche. if lathum comes up smelling like roses...hmmm

[Tyrith]

you really shouldn't be so worried unless you have something to hide.

As I see it you have spent the last couple of hours taking every argument I have and knowingly misinterpreting it. How else am I supposed to take it? You're putting information and ideas out there that, if they listen to you about what I was thinking could be very easily used against me. And you know it's not about having stuff to hide in this game, it's about trying to stay alive so that we make good lynches. If you know you're a good guy it's absolutely in your best interest to keep yourself alive because you KNOW you're good, unless it's in a situation where you are almost absolutely sure who another guy is and he's more valuable than you. So I'm going to be a bit worried when you throw out stuff that you could later use to call me a wolf.

[SnDvls]

I disagree with stating this so factually. I still stand by my feeling that he was part of saruman's team if not the head of it. For arguement case you have to at least assume he could have been part of one of the teams until we see a listing for another bad guy list their side.

have to disagree with you here.

I believe he was an outsider who could have been a part of either team
going off fouts info it says side of light and townfolk

[Swaggs]

Am I missing something in this exchange between Lathum and Tyrith?

Tyrith accuses Lathum of being bad, removes his vote from Lathum, and puts it on me--all in the same thread.

And they are now arguing?

[Tyrith]

I think he was revealed as on the side of dark. I think we'll know for sure one way or another when another bad guy is lynched.

Right now I wouldn't likely press for people who didn't vote for him, and likewise I wouldn't create a cot of people who did vote for him as I already said. But I likewise think dismissing that he was on a team is a fallicy too.

Throughout the rules process Anxiety talked about the four sides as being actual allegiances. Furthermore, Fouts full allegiance was revealed upon death. There is no distinction in the rules for roles being revealed differently for good or bad, so I'm inclined to think we know what we're gonna know for now.

[Alan T]

Updated vote count for Dodgerchick:

Saldana - 1 (by Chief Rum)
Chief Rum - 10 (by saldana, Alan T, Schmidty, Lathum, Jonathan, Thomkal, Grammaticus, spleen, LoneStarGirl, Mr. Wednesday)
Blade - 1 (by Izulde)
st.cronin - 1 (by SnDvls)
Lathum - 7 (by st.cronin, Swaggs, ntndeacon, KWhit, Sublime, BrianD, DaddyTorgo)
Alan T - 1 (Blade)
Swaggs - 1 (Tyrith)

My vote count is a little different :

(11) Chief Rum - Saldana (482), Alan (504), Schmidty (552), Lathum (555), Jonathan Ezarik (577), Thomkal (585), Grammaticus (593), Spleen (625), Lonestargirl (700), Tyrith (704)
(7) Lathum - St.Cronin (557), Swaggs (594), Ntndeacon (595), Kwhit (607), Sublime (616), BrianD (707), Daddytorgo (712)
(1) Saldana - Chief Rum (446)
(1) Blade - Izulde (484)
(1) St.cronin - Sndvls (532)
(1) Alan - Blade (611)

[Grammaticus]

Am I missing something in this exchange between Lathum and Tyrith?

Tyrith accuses Lathum of being bad, removes his vote from Lathum, and puts it on me--all in the same thread.

And they are now arguing?

No, not missing anything. Pretty much spot on.

[Izulde]

Since I'm of the viewpoint that lynches only help those of the Light and we're getting close to deadline with no clear lynch, I'm throwing my vote to the majority.

UNVOTE BLADE

VOTE CHIEF RUM

I'm still wary of Blade, though.

[st.cronin]

I think he was revealed as on the side of dark. I think we'll know for sure one way or another when another bad guy is lynched.

Right now I wouldn't likely press for people who didn't vote for him, and likewise I wouldn't create a cot of people who did vote for him as I already said. But I likewise think dismissing that he was on a team is a fallicy too.

That seems reasonable. I don't know quite where else to start, though. This Lathum-Tyrith bickering doesn't impress me any more than the AlanT-Blade-saldana war from day 1.

I put forward a concrete reason to vote for Lathum, and he goes after Tyrith, which is interesting. I'm certainly ready to be wrong about Lathum, but his act is pretty strange.

[Blade6119]

As I see it you have spent the last couple of hours taking every argument I have and knowingly misinterpreting it. How else am I supposed to take it? You're putting information and ideas out there that, if they listen to you about what I was thinking could be very easily used against me. And you know it's not about having stuff to hide in this game, it's about trying to stay alive so that we make good lynches. If you know you're a good guy it's absolutely in your best interest to keep yourself alive because you KNOW you're good, unless it's in a situation where you are almost absolutely sure who another guy is and he's more valuable than you. So I'm going to be a bit worried when you throw out stuff that you could later use to call me a wolf.

This was my argument against Alan the other day...all we need now is lathum saying he wasnt calling you a wolf and saying you are lying about what he said to make it complete :D

[Tyrith]

No, not missing anything. Pretty much spot on.

I'm not making sense right now when it comes to the whole Lathum situation. I'm well and truly on tilt when it comes to him.

[Alan T]

Throughout the rules process Anxiety talked about the four sides as being actual allegiances. Furthermore, Fouts full allegiance was revealed upon death. There is no distinction in the rules for roles being revealed differently for good or bad, so I'm inclined to think we know what we're gonna know for now.

Well I could be wrong on this then. Either way I don't think it should affect how we play today or any other day until we know for sure. (ie: we shouldn't form a CoT from that day or such)

[Tyrith]

Well I could be wrong on this then. Either way I don't think it should affect how we play today or any other day until we know for sure. (ie: we shouldn't form a CoT from that day or such)

True. I suspect in the next day or two we'll know for sure.

[Grammaticus]

My vote count is a little different :

(11) Chief Rum - Saldana (482), Alan (504), Schmidty (552), Lathum (555), Jonathan Ezarik (577), Thomkal (585), Grammaticus (593), Spleen (625), Lonestargirl (700), Tyrith (704)
(7) Lathum - St.Cronin (557), Swaggs (594), Ntndeacon (595), Kwhit (607), Sublime (616), BrianD (707), Daddytorgo (712)
(1) Saldana - Chief Rum (446)
(1) Blade - Izulde (484)
(1) St.cronin - Sndvls (532)
(1) Alan - Blade (611)

I have 11 for CR and 6 for Lathum.

[Jonathan Ezarik]

Alan, your list has only ten names voting for Chief.

With Izulde's vote, Chief now has 11.

[Blade6119]

I completely agree with 99% of saldana's take yesterday. I just wasn't around to post it. So, put me on your list as well, CR.

Post #451 cronin, which people asked you to explain at the time and you never did. Now that you seem to be talking more, care to explain this post from yesterday? Is it in regards to alan, as that was what i felt CR/Saldana debate was over

[Tyrith]

Alan, I am very much not voting for Chief, which would be the error with your record.

[Swaggs]

I'm not making sense right now when it comes to the whole Lathum situation. I'm well and truly on tilt when it comes to him.

Why did you vote for me, then?

I am one of the few people that have come out and said I am on the side of light and I put out my position that, agree with me or not, I feel like we need to vote/lynch someone because it is one of the only tools available to us, yet you vote for me because I am being suspicious.

[Alan T]

Alan, your list has only ten names voting for Chief.

With Izulde's vote, Chief now has 11.

Let me figure out who I missed. I think its 12 now:


(446) Chief rum votes Saldana (1)
(482) Saldana votes Chief Rum (1)
(484) Izulde votes Blade (1)
(501) Jonathan Ezarik votes Daddy Torgo (1)
(504) Alan votes Chief Rum (2)
(532) Sndvls votes St.Cronin (1)
(552) Schmidty votes Chief Rum (3)
(554) BrianD votes Spleen (1)
(555) Lathum votes Chief Rum (4)
(557) St.Cronin votes Lathum (1)
(565) Tyrith votes Lathum (2)
(574) Blade votes Chief Rum (5)
(577) Jonathan Ezarik UNVOTES Daddy Torgo (0) ***
(577) Jonathan Ezarik votes Chief Rum (6)
(583) Mr.Wednesday votes Lathum (3)
(585) Thomkal votes Chief Rum (7)
(593) Grammaticus votes Chief Rum (8)
(594) Swaggs votes Lathum (4)
(595) Ntndeacon votes Lathum (5)
(607) Kwhit votes Lathum (6)
(611) Blade UNVOTES Chief RUm (7) ***
(611) Blade votes Alan (1)
(616) Sublime votes Lathum (7)
(625) Spleen votes Chief Rum (8)
(700) Lonestargirl votes Chief Rum (9)
(704) Tyrith UNVOTES Lathum (6) ***
(704) Tyrith votes Chief Rum (10)
(707) BrianD UNVOTES Spleen (0) ***
(707) BrianD votes Lathum (7)
(708) Mr.Wednesday UNVOTES Lathum (6) ***
(708) Mr.Wednesday votes Chief Rum (11)
(712) DaddyTorgo votes Lathum (7)
(738) Izulde UNVOTES Blade (0) ***
(738) Izulde votes Chief Rum (12)

[Alan T]

I missed Mr.wednesday (708). it is 12 votes on Chief now