Werewolf XL: The Trial of the Aes Sedai (game over, AES SEDAI win) [Archive] - Page 3

Lathum

01-08-2007, 09:30 AM

Well I see CR has cleverly spun suspicoun on me. I didn't want to have to do this already but I guess I must.

I received a PM last night after Brian died saying he was my mentor and since he died I inhereted his knowledge and power. Brian was the seer and now I am. Last night before he died he viewed RPI fan and RPI-fan was killing Brian. I am assuming this info was passed to me because they had chosen Brian to kill. I am also assuming RPI was a conversion since from the begining he was the most universaly trusted. My PM indicated Brian was off to scan Chief Rum but never made it there which leads me to believe CR is more likely to be good.

VOTE RPI FAN

I didn't wanna put myself out there already but RPI jumped all over the vote for me so I think he knows he was viewed last night, why else do such a reverse from trusting me?

Mr. Wednesday

01-08-2007, 10:44 AM

So, would an unturned RPI survive the trial a second time?

Mr. Wednesday

01-08-2007, 10:49 AM

I don't see his vote for LSG is conclusive in either direction. A wolf might hold that vote both to limit suspicion and to try to gain trust.

Jonathan Ezarik

01-08-2007, 10:59 AM

I don't see his vote for LSG is conclusive in either direction. A wolf might hold that vote both to limit suspicion and to try to gain trust.

Are you talking about RPI?

Lorena

01-08-2007, 12:40 PM

Lathum, so you inherited Brian's powers when he died? It kinda sounds like a stretch. I guess I was expecting you to come out fighting but you sound sort of defeated.

vote lathum

Anytime I mentioned LSG he seemed a little defensive of her which is the biggest reason why I feel he's a baddie.

Alan T

01-08-2007, 01:42 PM

I've sat around alot of today waiting to see what others felt about the current day situation. So far its been alot of overwhelming quiet. I don't really believe Lathum and he isn't the person I referred to that I felt was the seer. Like I said before, I feel pretty strongly the seer is still alive, and Lathum isn't who I refer to.

Out of curiosity Lathum, if you took over for Brian and he was the seer, who did he scan each night?

I still stand by my original statement that I think Brian was the bodyguard (Jonathan later seemed to agree with my belief there on that one which has me a little bit concerned though).

I actually will be quite curious to talk after the game to see why the wolves picked who they did each night. If I was bad, I am pretty sure the person I would have picked to night kill on night 3 (when barkeep died and Brian protected Jonathan) would have been the seer and that would have really caused problems for us.

As it is currently, if we can get a wolf today, I think we're in pretty good shapes this game.

Jonathan Ezarik

01-08-2007, 01:45 PM

I still stand by my original statement that I think Brian was the bodyguard (Jonathan later seemed to agree with my belief there on that one which has me a little bit concerned though).

Why does me agreeing with you make you concerned?

Lorena

01-08-2007, 02:00 PM

Well, I don't mean to throw a monkey wrench in this whole thing but it is quiet soo..

I thought about the possiblity of RPI having some sort of medallion or potion or something that allowed him to "pass" the test with flying colors. We've seen these types of things in previous games.

Alan T

01-08-2007, 02:11 PM

Why does me agreeing with you make you concerned?

I don't know.. I guess just personal experience any time someone just goes along with what I say always raises warning flags for me. I already stated earlier why your actions yesterday felt a bit fishy to me but no one else seems to agree so I'll leave that be.

In fact, I went into depth yesterday why Lathum bugged me, and no one really backed me on that either. Then today when Chief comes up and says the same stuff I had already said, suddenly everyone follows along. I guess I just am having a huge problem trying to understand why everyone trusts you and/or chief more than me right now.

I mean at least in my head I think I've made decent arguements/observations about both Lathum and you, but maybe I am just not seeing everything clearly.

Alan T

01-08-2007, 02:29 PM

One other comment, this is mainly to Chief who still believes that Brian wasn't the bodyguard. He came back to me last night and died guarding me. The dream didn't say much other than I dreamt of Brian and saw him die in my dreams. That in itself doesn't tell me much about if the target was actually Brian or myself, but I guessed for most of today that Brian was likely the target otherwise normally he would have stayed alive.

I don't see any reason why Brian would have come back to visit me again if he was a spy or seer type role. Its pretty obvious to me that he was the bodyguard and he came back to protect me a second time. This can obviously be verified by the fact that no one else last night would have dreamt of Brian.

So while I might not be 100% sure the seer is still alive, I think its a pretty likely possibility and the seer was not Brian or Spleen (two of our 4 night deaths so far). I also still think I know who the seer is based on day to day behavior and the change of behavior at some points in regards to specific people.

Schmidty

01-08-2007, 02:38 PM

(Schmidty was here yesterday, just happened to pop in 15 min after the lynch vote that he couldn't do anything about since I didn't vote for Chief).

You know, I haven't gotten mad in this game in a while, but for some reason, that statement pisses me off. I don't lie about things that are out of the game. Ever.

Alan T

01-08-2007, 02:43 PM

You know, I haven't gotten mad in this game in a while, but for some reason, that statement pisses me off. I don't lie about things that are out of the game. Ever.

Schmidty, we're playing a game where 2-4 people are purposely lying to us, and the rest of us have to figure out who it is. You know I still think the world of you, I simply was giving my thoughts. I didn't insult you or say mean things about you, I just simply stated my thoughts. :)

Mr. Wednesday

01-08-2007, 03:21 PM

Are you talking about RPI?

Yes. Since Lathum accused him, I wanted to look and see what (if any) conclusions to draw from the one firm voting data point we have.

Schmidty

01-08-2007, 04:53 PM

Schmidty, we're playing a game where 2-4 people are purposely lying to us, and the rest of us have to figure out who it is. You know I still think the world of you, I simply was giving my thoughts. I didn't insult you or say mean things about you, I just simply stated my thoughts. :)

That's cool. I guess I don't mind being called a liar in-game, but when it was an honest out-of-game mistake, it's annoying. :)

Well, after having read Alan and Chief's analysissisisisises, I am comfortable voting for either Lathum or Jonathan, especially since they were the first ones to jump on me about missing last night's vote. At this point, I'll go with the majority (even though I'm one of the last votes):

Vote Lathum

RPI-Fan

01-08-2007, 05:09 PM

Ok, after reading today's posts, my suspicions have changed.

UNVOTE LATHUM

VOTE JON EZARIK

Alan T

01-08-2007, 05:14 PM

Ok, after reading today's posts, my suspicions have changed.

UNVOTE LATHUM

VOTE JON EZARIK

Just to help me out here, what in today's posts made you feel like switching now that the vote seems to be a run away?

I have both on my non-trust list fairly evenly.. but Lathum came out and said you were a bad guy... And you are saying gee he must not be bad?

Please help me understand what you are doing here.

Alan T

01-08-2007, 05:18 PM

Lord.. all of my theories for the day have been shot now.

I come into the day with like 4 different people I feel bad about and decide to go after Jonathan. Chief uses alot of my arguements about Lathum to make a case for him (which is fine with me). RPI jumps on and says same here. This is enough for me to decide to move my vote from Jon to Lathum. I wait a while so it doesn't seem too suspicious, but at this point I had highly suspected RPI was our seer (which I guess doesn't seem the case now).

THen Lathum claims he is the seer, says RPI is bad and RPI agrees with him and moves his vote to Jon who was my original target.

Am I the only one that is completely confused by this?

st.cronin

01-08-2007, 05:23 PM

A little more than 90 minutes to deadline and the vote is:

5 - Lathum - Chief Rum, Jonathan E, Alan T, DodgerChick, Schmidty
1 - RPI Fan - Lathum
1 - Jonathan E - RPI Fan

fixed, thanks Alan

Alan T

01-08-2007, 05:25 PM

Lathum didn't vote for himself cronin. just for the record.

Mr. Wednesday

01-08-2007, 05:28 PM

RPI did not agree with Lathum. He just said that the events of the day had changed his suspicions.

Schmidty

01-08-2007, 05:31 PM

A little more than 90 minutes to deadline and the vote is:

4 - Lathum - Chief Rum, Jonathan E, Alan T, DodgerChick
1 - RPI Fan - Lathum
1 - Jonathan E - RPI Fan

fixed, thanks Alan

You missed my vote.

Alan T

01-08-2007, 05:32 PM

ok.. either I'm losing my mind or everyone else has...

Lathum accused RPI of being bad... RPI after having read stuff today no longer thinks Lathum is bad and now thinks Jonathan is bad instead.

lathum said he was the seer and viewed RPI killing Brian...

At first I suspected some form of vote influence power being used on RPI here.. but as more people defend this.. am I just missing something here?

st.cronin

01-08-2007, 05:34 PM

You missed my vote.

fixed

Alan T

01-08-2007, 05:34 PM

Ok, I can see a few possible scenerios here:

1) Lathum is bad, and some form of vote wielding ability was used on RPI to move his vote.
2) Lathum is telling the truth and RPI was converted at some point (When and how, I have no idea) and RPI realizes as soon as Lathum dies and comes up good, people will be after him, so he places a vote on Jonathan to give Jonathan some trust down the road (With jonathan as the last bad guy)
3) Lathum and RPI are both bad somehow and this is a ploy to give one of them trust.
4) RPI is good and has just lost his mind?

Any other possibilities here?

RPI-Fan

01-08-2007, 05:36 PM

Lathum: I don't know why you would claim to see me last night. But I feel that maybe your role includes some kind of built-in error. What have the other results of your scans been so far?

Alan T

01-08-2007, 05:37 PM

fixed

Don't kill me, but it was Lathum who voted for RPI, not jonathan :)

Alan T

01-08-2007, 05:37 PM

dola, woops you're right. I just read your votes wrong!

RPI-Fan

01-08-2007, 05:38 PM

Don't kill me, but it was Lathum who voted for RPI, not jonathan :)

The post looks right to me at this point...

Alan T

01-08-2007, 05:41 PM

The post looks right to me at this point...

I realized and corrected myself! One of those WW moments I wish I could edit! :)

Alan T

01-08-2007, 05:43 PM

Unvote Lathum

Ok RPI, I had assumed you were the seer. Can you tell me your vote is not being influenced and what made you feel that Jonathan was the better target today? You were the only one I trusted coming in today and I stand by my thoughts that I doubt a conversion has occured due to no nights without a kill. You just really threw me for a loop there. I still have really big problems with Lathum here, but need some information why you think we should move our vote.

If I am not convinced, I'll move my vote back to Lathum before deadline.

Mr. Wednesday

01-08-2007, 05:55 PM

RPI, I'd like more detail about what you think the situation is right now: what you think Lathum is, why you think Jon is an appropriate vote.

Lorena

01-08-2007, 05:56 PM

Lathum: I don't know why you would claim to see me last night. But I feel that maybe your role includes some kind of built-in error. What have the other results of your scans been so far?

Okay, so if you claim that Lathum is lying, why on earth are you voting for Jon? You've made about 3 posts after Alan asked you and you keep avoiding it.

It's last minute stuff like this that really, really irritates me; no explanation, nothing. I'm not sure if RPI is doing this to confuse us so we can move our vote off of Lathum onto Jon because so many of us trust him or what.

C'mon RPI, out with it.

Blade6119

01-08-2007, 05:58 PM

back, anything important happen today?

Mr. Wednesday

01-08-2007, 05:59 PM

Yup. But you shouldn't need much catching up.

Lorena

01-08-2007, 06:07 PM

Because RPI is on so many people's "trust list", I should say. I'm starting to think RPI isn't who we think he is.

Blade6119

01-08-2007, 06:08 PM

RPI confuses me telling us not to kill the person calling him a wolf...has he explained this?

Mr. Wednesday

01-08-2007, 06:11 PM

Blade, no, he hasn't.

DC, is your post 537 in response to Blade's post 538 (timestamp bug back again), or is it in response to a different one?

Lorena

01-08-2007, 06:14 PM

Blade, no, he hasn't.

DC, is your post 537 in response to Blade's post 538 (timestamp bug back again), or is it in response to a different one?

It should have been a dolapost but my computer was acting funky. I was adding to my post.

Jonathan Ezarik

01-08-2007, 06:14 PM

I have no idea what's going on with RPI. This makes absolutely no sense to me. And is anyone actually giving credence to Lathum's "reveal"?

Alan T

01-08-2007, 06:15 PM

I have no idea what's going on with RPI. This makes absolutely no sense to me. And is anyone actually giving credence to Lathum's "reveal"?

I wasn't since like I said, I thought RPI was the seer.

Now I have no clue whats going on.

Lorena

01-08-2007, 06:16 PM

I have no idea what's going on with RPI. This makes absolutely no sense to me. And is anyone actually giving credence to Lathum's "reveal"?

I mentioned earlier that I thought it was a stretch.

Lorena

01-08-2007, 06:17 PM

Yeah, RPI is really messing with us... where the hell is he anyway?

Jonathan Ezarik

01-08-2007, 06:17 PM

I wait a while so it doesn't seem too suspicious, but at this point I had highly suspected RPI was our seer (which I guess doesn't seem the case now).

I thought so too, that's why I gave Lathum the benefit of the doubt when RPI said he had a hunch.

Am I the only one that is completely confused by this?

No. I think my head just blew up trying to figure out what RPI is doing.

Alan T

01-08-2007, 06:18 PM

Yeah, RPI is really messing with us... where the hell is he anyway?

I don't know, but I don't like my questions being ignored.

Mr. Wednesday

01-08-2007, 06:20 PM

Mr. Wednesday

01-08-2007, 06:21 PM

Dola, not only has RPI bailed on us, but Lathum hasn't exactly been loquacious either.

Lorena

01-08-2007, 06:25 PM

I don't know, but I don't like my questions being ignored.

Ummm... what question is that

ducks

Jonathan Ezarik

01-08-2007, 06:26 PM

Is it just to try to shake our faith in the one player who we seem to know?

That's what I saw the move as. I don't believe for one instant that Lathum is now a seer. At least, I don't believe Brian was ever seer (why scan RPI on the night he passed the test and we knew he was good)? So, Lathum's claim to me screams out "Let's confuse the villagers by casting doubt on the only player who's been cleared."

Unfortunately, RPI is doing a pretty good of that himself right now...

Alan T

01-08-2007, 06:28 PM

Alan, why did you think RPI was the seer?

I would agree that Lathum's claim that Brian was the previous seer doesn't really agree with anything that Brian had stated. But why is he trying to push us onto RPI, rather than one of the other people that hasn't already been tested, and cleared? Is it just to try to shake our faith in the one player who we seem to know?

Well early on he was the only one showing decent amount of confidence on me. (Well BrianD too even with me accusing Brian at times). My early assumption was that he scanned me and knew I was good and gave me some extra leeway that others didn't give me. Then he kind of hopped onto the LSG vote yesterday very fast but after someone else brought it up. It made it feel like to me he was trying to guide the vote but not put himself out in the front, when as the only semi-cleared person he could be the best one to guide such a talk.

The final thing was after feeling somewhat good about lathum, suddenly to flip 180 on him today smelled to me like he scanned him last night and found he was bad after I brought up Lathum's name yesterday.

Obviously now that seems to all be wrong on my part.

Lorena

01-08-2007, 06:29 PM

Another thing that's confusing me is why Blade and Mr. W are waiting til the last minute to vote? Blade was in here and Mr. W remains...

What's going on here? :confused:

Alan T

01-08-2007, 06:30 PM

Ummm... what question is that

ducks

Sorry, wasn't directed at you. Was referring to RPI completely ignoring my questions trying to get some sense to things. He was here multiple times, it just appeared he chose not to answer them.

Mr. Wednesday

01-08-2007, 06:31 PM

After a great deal of waffling, I don't buy Lathum's reveal.

VOTE Lathum

Blade6119

01-08-2007, 06:32 PM

Another thing that's confusing me is why Blade and Mr. W are waiting til the last minute to vote? Blade was in here and Mr. W remains...

What's going on here? :confused:

Deciding how i want to view RPI/Lathum's play...i think ill take my strategy ive been employing all game and just vote my top suspect

VOTE CHIEF RUM

Alan T

01-08-2007, 06:33 PM

Another thing that's confusing me is why Blade and Mr. W are waiting til the last minute to vote? Blade was in here and Mr. W remains...

What's going on here? :confused:

To be fair, I removed my vote to give RPI time to explain his action and thoughts. I said if he didn't convince me, I was going to put my vote back on Lathum. Now though I honestly don't know what to do. I was getting a bit worried that no one was coming to save Lathum, but I didn't expect the person who would lead the charge to save Lathum would be the person I trusted the most (RPI).. Now I don't know.

Part of me still thinks of the possibility of a forced vote ability, and if that is the case, Mr.W showed up right after strongly supporting RPI with his comments saying that RPI wasn't agreeing that he was bad, but that Lathum was good.

I really really wish RPI was here talking to us.

Alan T

01-08-2007, 06:36 PM

Well , I guess now I'm the only one with a vote outstanding. Looks like either way unless people switch votes Lathum is a goner.

I guess I'm going to stick with RPI for now. I still feel it is very unlikely that RPI has been converted, there was no nights without a night kill. I really don't know what his game is here, but Jonathan was one of my suspects too. I'll stick with the guy I trust the most for now.. but my trust is wavering big time.

Vote Jonathan

Mr. Wednesday

01-08-2007, 06:37 PM

My vote is my own. I waited because I hadn't cast a vote yet at the time of Lathum's reveal, and I wanted to see some discussion around it. The anticipated discussion never materialized, maybe because Lathum preferred to avoid it, maybe because he wasn't available, maybe because nobody pushed him when he was available.

Alan T

01-08-2007, 06:38 PM

With everyone voting, this is the final votes (unless someone moves in the last 20 min):

5 - Lathum - Chief Rum, Jonathan E, DodgerChick, Schmidty, Mr. W
2 - Jonathan E - RPI Fan, Alan
1 - RPI Fan - Lathum
1 - Chief RUm - Blade

Mr. Wednesday

01-08-2007, 06:39 PM

If Lathum turns up good, we go after RPI-Fan tomorrow. But if he turns up bad, I don't think we can say that anyone is off the hook.

st.cronin

01-08-2007, 06:40 PM

That's what I have as well, Alan.

Alan T

01-08-2007, 06:41 PM

If Lathum turns up good, we go after RPI-Fan tomorrow. But if he turns up bad, I don't think we can say that anyone is off the hook.

Ok.. my red flags are going up big time. I already commented about how I felt earlier that RPI was having some vote influence power used on him, then shortly thereafter Mr.W shows up supporting RPI's move telling me that he wasn't agreeing with Lathum, just he found something fishier in Jonathan's post (After Lathum acused RPI of being bad).

Now Mr.W is setting it up that if Lathum is good, we go after RPI tommorrow? I'm sorry but this really smells to me like someone is influencing RPI's vote here and we see who is playing traffic cop with it.

Alan T

01-08-2007, 06:42 PM

So if RPI's vote is being influenced, and forced onto Jonathan.. then I'm guessing Jonathan would be good.

Unvote Jonathan
vote Mr. Wednesday

Lorena

01-08-2007, 06:44 PM

I think Jonathan might actually be good based on LSG's vote against him yesterday.

Mr. Wednesday

01-08-2007, 06:44 PM

Now Mr.W is setting it up that if Lathum is good, we go after RPI tommorrow?
If Lathum is good, given his reveal, how do we NOT go after RPI tomorrow?

I never supported RPI today, I only made sure that there were no misunderstanding about what he had plainly stated.

Lorena

01-08-2007, 06:46 PM

So if RPI's vote is being influenced, and forced onto Jonathan.. then I'm guessing Jonathan would be good.

Unvote Jonathan
vote Mr. Wednesday

So what do you mean by his vote being influenced? Can someone actually do that cuz I haven't seen it in any WW games I've played.

Jonathan Ezarik

01-08-2007, 06:46 PM

Mr. Wednesday really feels wrong, now. I'm not going to move my vote because I think Lathum's reveal is a total crock, but Mr. Wednesday is a good vote in my book.

Something just occurred to me: Is it possible that Lathum was being controlled, too? If Lathum comes up good, what does that mean?

Lorena

01-08-2007, 06:47 PM

So if Lathum is being controlled, is that why he hasn't come back since the reveal?

Lorena

01-08-2007, 06:47 PM

*assuming he's being controlled.

Alan T

01-08-2007, 06:48 PM

So what do you mean by his vote being influenced? Can someone actually do that cuz I haven't seen it in any WW games I've played.

Every now and then in WW games a bad guy has the power to 1 time (or maybe multiple times) influence a single player to vote a certain way. That player is given fairly strict guides to what they can and can't say or do usually. Its a way of getting a trusted player to vote in a wolfish way. (Just like whats happening here)

Mr. Wednesday

01-08-2007, 06:48 PM

So what do you mean by his vote being influenced? Can someone actually do that cuz I haven't seen it in any WW games I've played.

Someone (path, I think) was getting blackmailed in the Musketeers game, and I believe one of the actions (aside from also challenging people to a duel) was forcing a particular vote.

As has happened in a previous game, Alan takes an exceptional ruleset and jumps to the conclusion that there's a repeat of it in the next game...

Lorena

01-08-2007, 06:49 PM

Interesting, if 2 people move their vote off of Lathum onto Mr. W, it's a tie.

Alan T

01-08-2007, 06:49 PM

I find it very unlikely that two players could be controlled on the same day.. but guess anything is possible I suppose..

If Lathum ends up good though, that means we just killed our new seer I guess...

I'm back to almost not trusting anyone again. Right now I feel somewhat good about both Jonathan and Dodgerchick.

Mr. Wednesday

01-08-2007, 06:49 PM

Every now and then in WW games a bad guy has the power to 1 time (or maybe multiple times) influence a single player to vote a certain way. That player is given fairly strict guides to what they can and can't say or do usually. Its a way of getting a trusted player to vote in a wolfish way. (Just like whats happening here)

Yeah, but right now, you seem to have about three different people getting unduly influenced, all at once.

Jonathan Ezarik

01-08-2007, 06:50 PM

I'm willing to move my vote. Mr. W smells real bad to me right now.

Mr. Wednesday

01-08-2007, 06:50 PM

Dola, I think the most likely scenario is that nobody is being influenced.

Alan T

01-08-2007, 06:50 PM

Someone (path, I think) was getting blackmailed in the Musketeers game, and I believe one of the actions (aside from also challenging people to a duel) was forcing a particular vote.

As has happened in a previous game, Alan takes an exceptional ruleset and jumps to the conclusion that there's a repeat of it in the next game...

Don't be making me out to be the bad guy here. This has been in several games before. Not just one recent game. In my mind its a very good possible explanation. Much better than the RPI is really bad even though he scanned as good at the lynch.

Lorena

01-08-2007, 06:50 PM

Alan T

01-08-2007, 06:51 PM

Yeah, but right now, you seem to have about three different people getting unduly influenced, all at once.

Who is the third?

Alan T

01-08-2007, 06:51 PM

So I went from "real good" to "somewhat good"? I dropped :(

Well to be fair, I had RPI as completely trusted, so he dropped further :)

Lorena

01-08-2007, 06:52 PM

Wow, it's so hard to read Mr. W based on his lack of votes on Days 2 and 4. Ugh, so confusing.

Lorena

01-08-2007, 06:53 PM

And we don't know what happens in the event of a tie right?

Blade6119

01-08-2007, 06:53 PM

So I went from "real good" to "somewhat good"? I dropped :(

i still love you DC

Alan T

01-08-2007, 06:54 PM

And we don't know what happens in the event of a tie right?

Yeah, I believe that remains unknown.

Blade6119

01-08-2007, 06:54 PM

And we don't know what happens in the event of a tie right?

If it comes down to it ill swap to lathum, i hate ties

Jonathan Ezarik

01-08-2007, 06:55 PM

If it comes down to it ill swap to lathum, i hate ties

Lathum over Mr. W?

Blade6119

01-08-2007, 06:56 PM

Lathum over Mr. W?

uh-huh...my top 2 suspects for like 3 days have been lathum and chief...you can go back and check. If chiefs not dying, lathum should. Mr. W is just being his same old self in my mind

Mr. Wednesday

01-08-2007, 06:57 PM

Don't be making me out to be the bad guy here. This has been in several games before. Not just one recent game. In my mind its a very good possible explanation. Much better than the RPI is really bad even though he scanned as good at the lynch.

The argument for RPI being bad now is conversion, a well-known mechanic (more common than vote or action influencing, in my experience) that is frequently used on a trusted player.

That said... it seems odd that if he were converted, RPI would get used to make a kill, unless a mechanic were also in play requiring it to be done that way. I doubt we're up against fewer than one original bad guy, and it would be foolish to expose your mole by needlessly using him for a night kill.

Lorena

01-08-2007, 06:57 PM

Unless someone holds the tie breaker...it's very possible ya know

Alan T

01-08-2007, 06:58 PM

uh-huh...my top 2 suspects for like 3 days have been lathum and chief...you can go back and check. If chiefs not dying, lathum should. Mr. W is just being his same old self in my mind

I'm not sure what you mean by him being his same ole self here. He's been very invisible most of the game then suddenly pops in when all of hell breaks loose. Seems to be more of Dr.Jekyll and Mr.Hyde here.

Alan T

01-08-2007, 06:59 PM

The argument for RPI being bad now is conversion, a well-known mechanic (more common than vote or action influencing, in my experience) that is frequently used on a trusted player.

That said... it seems odd that if he were converted, RPI would get used to make a kill, unless a mechanic were also in play requiring it to be done that way. I doubt we're up against fewer than one original bad guy, and it would be foolish to expose your mole by needlessly using him for a night kill.

I've talked about conversion a few times. Its still a possibility of course, but usually to convert someone you have to give up a night kill which as far as I am aware hasn't happened. Thats why I have found it less likely till now.

Blade6119

01-08-2007, 06:59 PM

I'm not sure what you mean by him being his same ole self here. He's been very invisible most of the game then suddenly pops in when all of hell breaks loose. Seems to be more of Dr.Jekyll and Mr.Hyde here.

In my opinion, thats not far off his normal play style..no offense intended

Alan T

01-08-2007, 07:00 PM

Well deadline is here, so guess we get to find out if Lathum was telling the truth or not next. This should be fun.

Lorena

01-08-2007, 07:01 PM

Oh man... the anticipation

Mr. Wednesday

01-08-2007, 07:02 PM

I am normally quieter early on, I'll admit that, but I think I've been more UTR than normal this game. I mean, it's highly out of the ordinary for me to miss votes.

I really don't go in for contextual analysis, which is literally about the only thing going on day 1 and not far off it (barring unusual circumstances) on day 2.

Lorena

01-08-2007, 07:02 PM

i still love you DC

http://forums.e-mpire.com/images/smilies/Lips.gif

Jonathan Ezarik

01-08-2007, 07:03 PM

I see you shiver, with antici.......................................................................................................................................................................pation.

Lorena

01-08-2007, 07:04 PM

Jonathan Ezarik

01-08-2007, 07:04 PM

Lorena

01-08-2007, 07:07 PM

Oh, now you show up RPI :mad:

st.cronin

01-08-2007, 07:07 PM

deadline

5 - Lathum - Chief Rum, Jonathan E, DodgerChick, Schmidty, Mr. Wednesday
1 - RPI Fan - Lathum
1 - Jonathan E - RPI Fan
1 - Chief Rum - Blade
1 - Mr. Wednesday - AlanT

Lathum's constant bickering with Blade finally begins to wear on his fellow Aes Sedai, and he is confronted with accusations: "Are you with us, or against us, Lathum?" Lathum is surrounded, cut off from the One Power, and escorted to the Arches for his Trial. He protests: "I am of the Light! Aes Sedai! Do not test me!" As with LoneStarGirl, he is forced into the Trial, and is reduced to a charred skeleton! He was Forsaken!

Night 5 has begun, deadline 8 am Tuesday

Jonathan Ezarik

01-08-2007, 07:08 PM

Two in a row!

Lorena

01-08-2007, 07:08 PM

Wow, what a sigh of relief

Lorena

01-08-2007, 07:08 PM

Great going guys!!

Alan T

01-08-2007, 07:10 PM

Well glad we got a bad guy.. I would love to hear some answers RPI.. you convinced me to move off of Lathum.. Would love to know why.

Lathum

01-08-2007, 07:12 PM

Sorry I didn't put up much of a fighjt, i was busy most of the day

Lorena

01-08-2007, 07:13 PM

Sorry I didn't put up much of a fighjt, i was busy most of the day

You really had me going there Lathum.

RPI-Fan

01-08-2007, 07:16 PM

Why don't you guys just think about what I did?

When I read Lathum's post, I _KNOW_ he is bad... my response yielded two possiblities:

1) I stir up conversation which can only help to cause a gaffe from the wolves.
2) The wolves mass-switch to me at the last minute, kill me, and it becomes plain as day who is a wolf and who isn't.

What good would it to for me to just vote Lathum and throw all my support behind him?

Lorena

01-08-2007, 07:20 PM

Alan T

01-08-2007, 07:21 PM

I think DC asked the questions running through my mind.

I'll take it a step further. RPI what would your trust/distrust list look like right now?

RPI-Fan

01-08-2007, 07:22 PM

And stir up conversation you did.

Did you get the result you were looking for?

I don't know... I did feel like it was a fairly safe play though.

Worst case scenario is, before last night, we were up 6-3...

After I died it would be 5-3, then the night kill makes it 4-3. Lathum gets lynched tomorrow to make it 4-2, then the night kill makes it 3-2. I figure the last two would be easy enough to identify based on the mass-switch that would have had to occur to me at the last minute.

So that was the worst case scenario. I feel like we certainly gained more from me doing what I did than had I plainly said Lathum is lying and everyone should vote for him.

RPI-Fan

01-08-2007, 07:23 PM

RPI-Fan

01-08-2007, 07:24 PM

Anyone have a voting-history to look at?

Alan T

01-08-2007, 07:25 PM

Also, now that you guys have the result of the lynching in hand, are you really all that confused why I did what I did?

What would you be thinking if you were me and you got home from work ~6pm and read Lathum's post?

Well thats the thing I had the problem swallowing.. I honestly couldn't figure out why you would do what you did. I guess in hindsight I understand. I think in the process of trying to smoke out the weeds, you confused the hell out of me too.

RPI-Fan

01-08-2007, 07:25 PM

I don't know... I did feel like it was a fairly safe play though.

Worst case scenario is, before last night, we were up 6-3...

After I died it would be 5-3, then the night kill makes it 4-3. Lathum gets lynched tomorrow to make it 4-2, then the night kill makes it 3-2. I figure the last two would be easy enough to identify based on the mass-switch that would have had to occur to me at the last minute.

So that was the worst case scenario. I feel like we certainly gained more from me doing what I did than had I plainly said Lathum is lying and everyone should vote for him.

That should read:

"

...

Worst case scenario is, before Day 5...

"

Alan T

01-08-2007, 07:29 PM

Anyone have a voting-history to look at?

Yeah, I kept one today , this is it:

Chief votes Lathum (1)
Alan votes Jonathan (1)
RpI votes Lathum (2)
Jonathan votes Lathum (3)
Alan Unvotes Jonathan (0)
Alan votes Lathum (4)
Lathum votes RPI (1)
Dodgerchick votes Lathum (5)
Schmidty votes Lathum (6)
Rpi unvotes Lathum (5)
Rpi votes Jonathan (1)
Alan unvotes Lathum (4)
Mr.W votes Lathum (5)
Blade votes Chief (1)
Alan votes Jonathan (2)
Alan unvotes Jonathan (1)
Alan Votes mr.W (1)

Lorena

01-08-2007, 07:31 PM

I have end day totals, but not who switched when.

Alan T

01-08-2007, 07:35 PM

Gonna be away for a bit, movie night for me. I'll check back in a few hours.

Jonathan Ezarik

01-08-2007, 07:36 PM

Day 1

14 - Chief Rum votes Schmidty (1)
40 - Barkeep votes Lathum (1)
43 - Lathum votes Barkeep (1)
44 - Tyrith votes Alan (1)
50 - Blade votes Dodgerchick (1)
51 - Dodgerchick votes Blade (1)
52 - Anxiety votes Jonathan (1)
54 - Brian votes Mr. Wednesday (1)
56 - Mr. Wednesday votes RPI (1)
57 - Alan votes Tyrith (1)
58 - Schmidty votes Brian (1)
60 - spleen votes path (1)
63 - LSG votes spleen (1)
68 - Jonathan votes Anxiety (1)
76 - path votes Chief Rum (1)
81 - path UNVOTES Chief Rum (0) / path votes Tyrith (2)
83 - Alan UNVOTES Tyrith (1) / Alan votes path (2)

Day 2

112 - Chief Rum votes RPI (1)
153 - Jonathan votes RPI (2)
160 - Dodgerchick votes LSG (1)
165 - Lathum votes RPI (3)
170 - Schmidty votes RPI (4)
171 - Anxiety votes RPI (5)
185 - Blade votes Dodgerchick (1)
191 - Barkeep votes RPI (6)
192 - Brian votes RPI (7)
194 - LSG votes RPI (8)
195 - Alan votes Brian (1)
196 - RPI votes Brian (2)
199 - Anxiety UNVOTES RPI (7) / Anxiety votes Alan (1)

Day 3

263 - Chief Rum votes Tyrith (1)
280 - Blade votes Lathum (1)
282 - Blade UNVOTES Lathum (0) / Blade votes Brian (1)
287 - Tyrith votes Brian (2)
348 - Mr. Wednesday votes Tyrith (2)
349 - Brian votes Tyrith (3)
351 - Alan votes Dodgerchick (1)
357 - Blade UNVOTES Brian (1)
359 - Dodgerchick votes Alan (1)
360 - RPI votes LSG (1)
362 - Blade votes Brian (2)
366 - Lathum votes Tyrith (4)
374 - Jonathan votes Tyrith (5)
384 - Anxiety votes Tyrith (6)
387 - LSG votes Brian (3)
388 - Blade UNVOTES Brian (2) / Blade votes Lathum (1)

Day 4

412 - RPI votes LSG (1)
421 - Dodgerchick votes Jonathan (1)
422 - Brian votes LSG (2)
424 - LSG votes Jonathan (2)
428 - Chief Rum votes Blade (1)
435 - Blade votes Chief Rum (1)
438 - Jonathan votes LSG (3)
439 - Lathum votes Chief Rum (2)
441 - Dodgerchick UNVOTES Jonathan (1) / Dodgerchick votes LSG (4)
446 - Alan votes LSG (5)

Day 5

486 - Chief Rum votes Lathum (1)
489 - Alan votes Jonathan (1)
490 - RPI votes Lathum (2)
496 - Jonathan votes Lathum (3)
500 - Alan UNVOTES Jonathan (0) / Alan votes Lathum (4)
503 - Lathum votes RPI (1)
507 - Dodgerchick votes Lathum (5)
516 - Schmidty votes Lathum (6)
517 - RPI UNVOTES Lathum (5) / RPI votes Jonathan (1)
532 - Alan UNVOTES Lathum (4)
554 - Mr. Wednesday votes Lathum (5)
555 - Blade votes Chief Rum (1)
557 - Alan votes Jonathan (2)
563 - Alan UNVOTES Jonathan (1) / Alan votes Mr. Wednesday (1)

RPI-Fan

01-08-2007, 07:37 PM

Yeah, I kept one today , this is it:

Chief votes Lathum (1)
Alan votes Jonathan (1)
RpI votes Lathum (2)
Jonathan votes Lathum (3)
Alan Unvotes Jonathan (0)
Alan votes Lathum (4)
Lathum votes RPI (1)
Dodgerchick votes Lathum (5)
Schmidty votes Lathum (6)
Rpi unvotes Lathum (5)
Rpi votes Jonathan (1)
Alan unvotes Lathum (4)
Mr.W votes Lathum (5)
Blade votes Chief (1)
Alan votes Jonathan (2)
Alan unvotes Jonathan (1)
Alan Votes mr.W (1)

Ok, so I have trouble believing CR would cast the initial vote on Lathum if he were a wolf. I'll leave him out for now...

Jonathan's vote is not quite as un-suspicious... it was 2-0 at that point and looking like it could be a runaway, with the known good throwing his vote squarely at Lathum. So he does NOT get a pass for now.

Alan I am assuming good for now... maybe need to discuss later.

Lathum votes me... we know his deal.

DC and Schmidty then vote for Lathum. 1 of these 2 is most likely a wolf IMO (I'm assuming at this point that, with no apparant conversions, we're dealing with TWO remaining wolves.

I then unvote Lathum, Alan unvotes -- as I said Alan is assumed good for now but still needs to be evaluated more in-depth.

Mr. W's vote for Lathum is one that needs to be looked at closely -- he waited a VERY long time to make the vote. Something about his posting pattern made me think he was deciding whether or not the wolves could do enough to get the vote off Lathum (with 3 remaining living wolves, they would have needed to convince at least 1 non-wolf to not vote Lathum to force a tie or better). So Mr. W DEFINITELY needs to be discussed.

Blade's vote is also curious. If he was a wolf, he wouldn't want to be the last one voting Lathum in a runaway vote, and if he's not a wolf, he might have legitimately been confused (but I think his vote is very curious). So Blade also needs to be analyzed.

Therefore, for now, here is my list:

Safe: RPI-Fan
Probably Safe: Chief Rum, AlanT
Pretty Good: Dodgerchick
Concerned about: Blade
Highly Suspicious: Mr. Wednesday, Schmidty, Jonathan Ezarik

Jonathan Ezarik

01-08-2007, 07:40 PM

Man, I vote to lynch two wolves in a row and I still don't get any trust. :(

RPI-Fan

01-08-2007, 07:42 PM

Man, I vote to lynch two wolves in a row and I still don't get any trust. :(

Well, I'd say you probably belong more on the "Concerned" list than "Highly Suspcious".

But to get onto the safe list you have to go out on a limb sometimes... even had I not been cleared already I'd have to feel I was quite safe given that I started the bandwagon on LSG and did not hesitate at all about Lathum (of course I would have defended myself more vehemently if I wasn't a 100% known good).

RPI-Fan

01-08-2007, 07:44 PM

Alan/Chief: I'd appreciate it if you guys could post your detailed thoughts before the Night actions.

Also, Jon, you could do yourself some big favors if you tried to sort things out for us...

Schmidty

01-08-2007, 07:46 PM

If there is still a Seer please test me.

RPI-Fan

01-08-2007, 07:48 PM

I should say, I would appreciate ANYONE who posts their detailed thoughts in the near future. I have ample time to read through anything in detail tonight and make use of it in the morning.

Lorena

01-08-2007, 07:59 PM

Alan T

01-08-2007, 08:26 PM

I'll make some comments. Let me have some time to look over the votes from the entire game.

Mr. Wednesday

01-08-2007, 08:26 PM

I'm notorious for holding my votes a long time. As I said upthread, in particular, I was hoping for some back-and-forth that would give me more to think about in regards Lathum's false reveal, and when that never really materialized, I went with my own analysis of the scant info we had.

Blade6119

01-08-2007, 08:40 PM

My list:

Very good feel:
Dodgerchick - obviously
Chief Rum - no way does he even present analysis like he did and cast such a huge spotlight on a baddie if he were a wolf.
Jonathan Ezarik - he voted against LSG and Lathum. I can see sacrificing 1 wolf, but 2? Highly doubt it

Good:
AlanT - based on his earlier posts, I believe him to be good based on his association to Spleen
RPI-Fan - I was really, really confused when he swapped off of Lathum onto Jonathan but I see why he did it. I've seen this play before and more often than not, it's a good guy play.

Lukewarm:
Schmidty and Mr. W- I don't even know what to think of them. They missed 2 votes and since I base most of my analysis off of voting records, it's hard to get a feel.

Not good:
Blade6119 - Well, he's the ONLY one who did not vote LSG or Lathum... ouch. Very damning.

DC, look a the votes today. I come in and its like 7-1-1. As a wolf, if i knew lathum was evil, why would i not vot him. hell, by noon it was clear who was dying. If i was evil, i would have voted him then.

You need to think about that for a second. If your a wolf, and for 2 days in a row your partners are going down(and both days it was pretty clear who was dying(read bandwagon). Your telling me you think a wolf would be the only one not joining either bandwagon? I, of all people, would sell my wolf teamates down the river the second i thought it would benefit me. Id fake reveal seer and say i scanned lathum and he was evil. Not screw around all day and vote away from the bandwagon(again).

Lathum was on most of the bandwagons this game, and so were you. Your uncleared...i could try to make a case for you being evil, but i still think chief is the last bad guy. Thats why im trying to work this through with you.

Chief Rum

01-08-2007, 08:47 PM

I am in and out, as I am meeting family to celebrate my mom's birthday. I had just enough time to read the days events.

I am very happy you all were not misled by Lathum's "reveal".

I would love to give detailed thoughts, but my time is short. I will be back after dinner and share my thoughts, but it will likely be past most of your bedtimes. :(

Talk to you all soon.

Jonathan Ezarik

01-08-2007, 08:48 PM

Ok, my thoughts.

1st Level of Trust
Myself - self-explanatory

2nd Level of Trust

RPI - Confirmed good guy. His play today, though, was confusing. I understand what he says he was trying to do, and if it turns out the Mr. W is the last wolf, RPI gets MVP. For now, I'm going to continue to trust him.
Chief Rum - As I've already stated, he came out first with a description of a role almost exactly like mine. It's possible that he was converted, but I agree with Alan in that I don't think any conversions have been made.

3rd Level of Trust

Dodgerchick - She appears to have the same role as Chief and I. I don't get any negative vibes from her.
Alan - He should be higher up on my list of trusted players (probably in the 2nd level), but something is holding me back. I go through phases when I believe him, and then five minutes later think he's full of crap. In other words, a typical Alan play. I will say, though, that the fact that he kept his belief of Brian's role quiet (and that Brian didn't die right away) as good signs in Alan's favor.

Unknowns

Schmidty - He missed two votes in a row and has been quiet. Still, I don't get the sense that he's evil.
Blade - An usual game from Blade, but he mentioned before the game started that he would be quieter this time. I don't get the sense that he's evil, though. I think he would be more involved if he was.

Suspected Wolf

Mr. Wednesday - His play today was completely bizarre. He seemed to want to give Lathum the benefit of the doubt, regardless of how absurd Lathum's "reveal" was. He also tried to muddy the waters by throwing doubt on RPI.

Chief Rum

01-08-2007, 08:52 PM

Lathum was on most of the bandwagons this game, and so were you. Your uncleared...i could try to make a case for you being evil, but i still think chief is the last bad guy. Thats why im trying to work this through with you.

Despite my rush and the fact I shouldn't be goaded into this, I must admit to curiosity to ask: why on earth am I your top suspect? As DC noted, there is no way I present the analysis I do and spotlight Lathum if I am a wolf. I also mention LSG as a strong wolf possibility the day she is lynched (although I voted for you, and I am still not sure I actually made a mistake there, you know).

But, yes, I'm very curious. Build a case against me, because I want to see it.

Blade6119

01-08-2007, 08:57 PM

Despite my rush and the fact I shouldn't be goaded into this, I must admit to curiosity to ask: why on earth am I your top suspect? As DC noted, there is no way I present the analysis I do and spotlight Lathum if I am a wolf. I also mention LSG as a strong wolf possibility the day she is lynched (although I voted for you, and I am still not sure I actually made a mistake there, you know).

But, yes, I'm very curious. Build a case against me, because I want to see it.
Quite simply, if you were a wolf and saw your allies going down, you really think you would sit idly by and not do anything. Myself, and i think everyone else, would try to take advantage of it.

Gee, what would be a good way to take advantage of lathum's impending doom(and it was clear he was doomed, be it today or tomorrow)...maybe presenting evidence hes evil?

Come on chief, the bad guys know who is good and evil...they know who to support and who not to. Look in old games, its usually the bad guys with the best voting records.

Chief, i dont have a case...i just see you presenting evidence and trying to be vocal about someone who was pretty clearly dying...and thats something id do as a wolf.

Alan T

01-08-2007, 09:01 PM

Ok , I analyzed the following. I looked at who the night kills were: Barkeep, Spleen, Anxiety, Brian I looked at who the confirmed bad day kills were: Lonestargirl, Lathum.

I tried to analyze who in these groups voted for who and when. I also tried to figure out who had the best voting "history" I noticed that no one who was night killed voted for a bad guy except barkeep voting Lathum night 1.

Trust:

RPI - 2 votes for bad guys, 1 no vote, 1 vote for a known good guy, 1 vote for a still unknown. I've trusted RPI for a while , and think I had figured out his role yesterday daytime. I now feel I was wrong though, but after a shaky afternoon still have RPI as my #1 trusted person. I don't think he's been converted and even though I was confused today I understand the logic in his actions today.

Dodgerchick - 3 votes for bad guys, 2 votes for unknown. The only player left in the game without having voted for a known good guy by now. Perhaps thats a sign of someone bad, but Dodgerchick has also had the most votes on bad people so far. I think if you go by voting records, DC probably has to be among the top trusted. Had a chance to save Lathum today but didn't pull the trigger.

Neutral

Blade - 1 vote for a bad guy, 1 vote for a known good guy, 3 votes for unknown players. I know I came out really strong at Blade yesterday. Part of me still wonders why he hasn't come out attacking much this game. His play has been off, however he states it for non-game reasons. I think I have started believing him a bit if for no other reason than normally he would have been chewing all over me by now.. the fact he isn't tells me something is up with him outside of the game. Not sure that it makes me feel better or worse about him being a WW though.

Chief Rum - 1 vote for bad guy, 2 votes for good guys, 2 votes for unknown players. This is an interesting person as I had disagreements with his thoughts on a few things this game so far. I felt he wasn't into his normal game earlier on to which he responded with alot of analysis last night. Granted a big part of it was based on things I had already said. The interesting thing for me is Chief is the only person with the exact same voting record as me. Since I know that I am good, I'll probably let Chief slide for now.

Slight Distrust
Mr.W and Schmidty - I will group them both together here. They both have the same voting record of 1 vote for a bad guy, 2 no-votes and 2 votes for known good guys. Both have done things I find pretty shady at times and have called them out for it, but the biggest problem I have with each is the lack of data for either of them. THe missing votes make it much tougher for me to analyze them.

Distrust
Jonathan - This leaves Jonathan. His voting record is 2 bad guys and 3 known good guys. No one else has voted for more known good guys then him. I've gone all over the map on Jonathan, thinking he was being wolfish to feeling good about him and back several times. Today I convinced myself that he was good when I felt there was a chance that RPI might have been persuaded to vote for him. Now that I know thats not the case, it makes me remove him from that area again. His 2 votes for bad guys were both in places that didn't necessarily seal anything and kind of fit right into the middle of the pack. I guess if I had to stake my life on one bad guy, it probably would be him for now.

Schmidty

01-08-2007, 09:01 PM

I look forward to reading any novel....er.....analysis that Chief or Alan have to offer.

I have a sense of who I think are bad, but I'd like to see some more thoughts before I can solidify anything.

Alan T

01-08-2007, 09:43 PM

I guess I quieted the crowd!

Lorena

01-08-2007, 09:51 PM

I see I'm the only one that has Jonathan on their trust list. I guess I'll have to look back and check his posts again.

I'm curious to see what Chief has to say.

Lorena

01-08-2007, 09:52 PM

I guess I quieted the crowd!

You have that kind of effect on people

Jonathan Ezarik

01-08-2007, 09:52 PM

Not true. I trust myself. :)

Alan T

01-08-2007, 09:56 PM

I see I'm the only one that has Jonathan on their trust list. I guess I'll have to look back and check his posts again.

I'm curious to see what Chief has to say.

I honestly am back and forth on him and have been the past few days. I mainly have him at the bottom because right now I am running out of people to distrust. For me right now its either him or one of the Under the Radar folks (Mr.W or Schmidty). I honestly can't tell you which the better choice is though.

I'm heading to bed. Hope to be alive for more in the morning.

Mr. Wednesday

01-08-2007, 10:53 PM

Suspected Wolf

Mr. Wednesday - His play today was completely bizarre. He seemed to want to give Lathum the benefit of the doubt, regardless of how absurd Lathum's "reveal" was. He also tried to muddy the waters by throwing doubt on RPI.
I sure didn't try very hard. I made an observation regarding his vote yesterday, wondered at whether we would lose anything by trying him again. I don't think I said anything else against him, aside from (once my vote was cast) suggesting that if Lathum were good (which he wasn't) we might want to look at RPI again.

Mr. Wednesday

01-08-2007, 10:55 PM

Dola, if I'd been pushing hard against him, I would have had a LOT more to say this afternoon. I have a way of suddenly waxing loquacious when I think something silly is happening. :)

Chief Rum

01-08-2007, 11:59 PM

Quite simply, if you were a wolf and saw your allies going down, you really think you would sit idly by and not do anything. Myself, and i think everyone else, would try to take advantage of it.

Gee, what would be a good way to take advantage of lathum's impending doom(and it was clear he was doomed, be it today or tomorrow)...maybe presenting evidence hes evil?

Come on chief, the bad guys know who is good and evil...they know who to support and who not to. Look in old games, its usually the bad guys with the best voting records.

Chief, i dont have a case...i just see you presenting evidence and trying to be vocal about someone who was pretty clearly dying...and thats something id do as a wolf.

Until I had done my analysis, Lathum was just one among many suspects. Alan had his go at it, I and a couple others had voiced some suspicion, but I would say Jon Ez, yourself, myself, the UTR guys, etc. all were as likely to be targeted.

Not to belittle Alan's contributions, but as he noted, for whatever reason, there wasn't a real strong urge to go with Lathum until I posted my analysis. I had a large part in pointing a wavering investigation with many suspects at a player who turned out to be bad.

So while I see your point if your premise were true, I don't think it is at all. Lathum was no more under suspicion than many other targets, and had I done nothing, it is quite likely he would have survived today.

Chief Rum

01-09-2007, 12:08 AM

I haven't had a chance to look at Lathum's votes yet. Much of my analysis yesterday was based on LSG alone, so a whole new data point in Lathum could be quite revealing.

I still don't see Jon as a baddie, at least not before a ton of others get their shot. He was certainly not the killer on Night Three, when BrianD watched him/guarded him. He had a choice of voting for me or LSG to try to save himself yesterday, and he chose LSG, the wolf. That was an open chance to avoid a wolf vote without looking suspicious, and he voted for the wolf. I just can't see him throwing another wolf under the bus to save himself. Throwing one already fairly doomed to gain trust for oneself is one thing, but Jon was actually the leading votegetter when he voted. I don't quite get why some have latched onto him as a likely wolf; IMO, he's one of my more trusted, right about with DC and RPI.

I am going to look at the voting patterns some more and see what I can come up with.

Lorena

01-09-2007, 12:15 AM

Chief Rum

01-09-2007, 12:24 AM

Well, I can't believe I spent the better part of an hour looking back at everyone's posts and... I'm right back where I started from.

I noticed what seemed to be clues, but my it's possible my paranoia is getting the best of me. Sometimes it's the people wolves DON'T mention that makes me suspect.

Sometimes that it the way of it. It doesn't hurt to put your suspicions out there, though. We can certainly consider them for ourselves and decide if they are good points worth noting when we choose our next lynch target.

Lorena

01-09-2007, 12:44 AM

Alright, I'm pretty tired so I'll post what I found:

Lathum was trying to cast suspicion on Alan, Chief Rum, and Schmidty quite a bit. I'm sure he did that to confuse us but now that we know Lathum was bad, I feel these guys are actually good.

LSG was doing the same to Jonathan and we know Jon voted for her and Lathum so how can he be bad? The thing about WW is that it comes down to timing and unfortunately for Jon, the timing of his votes is what condemns him.

Ugh, I just don't know. I guess we'll find out some more with tonight's kill.

Lorena

01-09-2007, 12:46 AM

dola,

Note to self, this leaves RPI, Mr. W and Blade. Since RPI "passed" the test, I'm taking him off the list.

I'm interested to hear Blade's side of the story cuz I know it's coming.

Lorena

01-09-2007, 12:49 AM

i think we need to look at the people who voted for lsg, i'm certain there will be a wolf hiding in there

Just quoting it to look at my list sometime tomorrow.

Chief Rum

01-09-2007, 12:55 AM

Chief Rum

01-09-2007, 12:56 AM

Just quoting it to look at my list sometime tomorrow.

Considering it comes from Lathum, I have to think that will be misinformation which leads us few places we can trust unfortunately. You're welcome to look, but I'm not sure we'll get anything of value there.

Alan T

01-09-2007, 06:50 AM

I have to head offsite to a different office for the day and am unsure if I can connect from there or not. I'll go ahead and toss out a vote (if Cronin allows it and I'm still alive to do so) just in case I can't get back.

Vote Blade

He probably isn't the best candidate out there, he has a better voting record than several of the people left in the game and he was after Lathum for most of the game. I really haven't seen a ton "wolfish" from him but I guess it just wouldn't be WW for me without him yelling at me at least for one day :)

Eh I'll probably follow everyone to whatever people think the consensus vote is later in the day if I get back just wanted to get fireworks started for the day at least :)

Chief Rum

01-09-2007, 06:55 AM

I think now is a good time to reveal this, as I have to guess the wolves will target me as dangerous to them after yesterday.

After three nights (counting Night 0) of no night time PMs, I was surprised to receive one on Night 3. I had figured I was a vanilla role on the side of good, although my PM suggested the possibility I would not be powerless for forever.

It turns out, this was true. On Night 3, I went to search the departed Barkeep's effects (BK was night killed on Night 2). I did not initiate this or choose Barkeep. This came to me out of the blue, as a game mechanic st.cronin apparently set up previously.

In BK's belongings, I found an object (an angreal? I don't know what that is, a stone?) with which I could see if someone was truly of the Light. That is right, BK was our seer and he bought it pretty quickly.

Anyway, I became the new seer with this stone, with my first night as seer being Night Four. I chose to scan AlanT. I will get back to that shortly, because I don't want to move away from the current topic just yet.

This past night I chose to scan Blade. I am waiting to hear the results of this or if I am dead. IMO, there are are few real suspects left, and Blade is one of them. I am sure people will disagree with my choice(s), but he was at the top of the list for me. If he's bad, we likely kill the last wolf today. If he is good, we gain a strong WW player who is proven to be trustworthy, and decrease our suspect list by one.

Revealing now is an end game decision. I feel there is one wolf left, and that we started with three with no conversion ability. I am hoping my revelation can help set up a final circle of trust with which we can put this one to bed.

If not, or if I guess wrong or if there is more than one wolf, then I die tonight. But I accept that consequence.

Now to Alan's scan. Oddly enough, my first scan was interrupted when I tried to scan Alan. It was not a successful scan. I did not receive any knowledge of his affiliation. He has some power to block this, but I don't know if we can read that as good or bad.

It would have been better if we could read Alan. I for one am not jumping on the "he must be guilty" boat, because he has been too vocal early on to be your normal wolf (and has been acting like your normal Alan).

So while I find it odd, I still find Blade and MrWednesday more suspicious right now. I only present the information for you all to determine to your own best abilities.

The interesting thing I noted from today's discussion was that Lathum suggested a "transfer" of seer power in his "reveal". Was that a coincidence? I haven't known this to be a very common game element. But that might be something for you all to consider. I don't know if maybe this means they know more than we think about our own abilities.

I will wait for my night PM and if I am still alive, reveal my scan of Blade. And put in my vote fro the day.

Good luck, everyone.

Lorena

01-09-2007, 07:27 AM

Lorena

01-09-2007, 07:35 AM

Alright, I'm off for a few hours, hopefully I'm still alive.

st.cronin

01-09-2007, 07:41 AM

You awake in the morning, and again one of you has been taken by the Forsaken - this time it is RPI-Fan!

Day 6, Deadline 8 pm ET

Alan T

01-09-2007, 07:48 AM

Looks like I do have internet at this office, however I'm having to connect through a proxy server in England (ew) so its a bit painful. I should be around still for some analysis today though.

Chief, if you look back, I can already probably tell you why your read of me on night 4 was blocked. Brian bodyguarded me that evening. I already mentioned this yesterday but night 4 (the night brian died) I dreamt of Brian once again like night 1 but this time I woke startled from my dream as I dreamt him getting killed.

I am pretty sure any attempt to scan or attack me that night would be foiled by him.

Now on to the discussion of Blade.. I'll revote it again just in case Cronin didn't take my early vote for being before night results

Vote Blade

I was a bit terse this morning when I put it out there, but basically like I said two days ago, I felt Lathum and Blade were putting on a show for us. Its one of those gut things I just felt at the time, when they both convienantly hopped onto Chief Rum that day for the vote. Thinking about this more last night after I got off here and went to sleep, I know how Blade is.. in games he was after me right or wrong he kept coming after me with votes day in and day out. He didn't do that with Lathum here. It just felt like a show to me.

So I put my vote on Blade this morning. Like I said before, I can move my vote depending on what happens today with Chief's scan.

If not Blade, my other targets would be probably Mr.W and once again Jonathan

Alan T

01-09-2007, 07:52 AM

Hmm... interesting stuff there Chief.

Should be an interesting day for sure; I fully expect Blade to come out fighting and hope Alan makes it back to add to the discussion.

Alan, is there anything you could tell us about your secret society that might help us? Also, did you know Chief scanned you since you seem to have blocked it?

I'm kinda wondering if Alan knew about the scan and chose not to tell us; there might be something to this secret society than meets the eye.

I don't really have much about my secret society that can help you I fear. I think it simply was just a way to have some pre-game trust between two villagers (Spleen and myself). The only thing I had not included earlier in talking about the secret society was its purpose was to investigate the possible escape of the Forsaken. I didn't include that part because I didn't want people to misinterpret that to think I had special powers.

I have no such powers or abilities at all to help with such "investigation"

Also I didn't know about the scan at all. Chief talking about it this morning was the first I had heard of it. Like I said I thought RPI was the seer anyways and I felt his comments yesterday evening were actually hints that he had scanned me and was trying to convey that to everyone else. But I am guessing Brian guarding me protected me from any outside interference on night 4 all together which I suppose also includes seer scans. Thats the only explanation I have for it.

Chief Rum

01-09-2007, 08:08 AM

I received my night scan. And we have hit paydirt. Blade is a wolf. That is essentially all my message said.

It looks like we're going down the home stretch.

VOTE BLADE

Alan T

01-09-2007, 08:12 AM

So I presume this is game over then? Can we do a nightfall vote here to end the day early if everyone is ok with it? If the game ends with Blade's death, I don't see any reason to drag it out further.

Jonathan Ezarik

01-09-2007, 08:28 AM

VOTE BLADE

Lorena

01-09-2007, 09:59 AM

Alright, I guess it's a done deal.

vote blade

Mr. Wednesday

01-09-2007, 10:32 AM

VOTE Blade6119

Schmidty

01-09-2007, 01:40 PM

You awake in the morning, and again one of you has been taken by the Forsaken - this time it is RPI-Fan!

Day 6, Deadline 8 pm ET

Ok, this confirms that Jonathan is good, nd with Chiefs scan, I'm going to vote:

VOTE BLADE

Blade6119

01-09-2007, 02:01 PM

I cant wait to see your reactions after the lynch

Schmidty

01-09-2007, 02:28 PM

I cant wait to see your reactions after the lynch

I'll have my wife take a picture of me just for you.

Blade6119

01-09-2007, 02:34 PM

I'll have my wife take a picture of me just for you.

Better yet, make a video and upload it to youtube!

VOTE CHIEF RUM

Its 4-2, i highly suggest you consider that before blindly trusting chief here. You pick wrong, its 3-2...tonight its 2-2 with brian now dead, and thats the ball game ladies and gentlemen. Ive told you for 3 days exactly what hes been doing, he continues to do it, and you are all blindly trusting him.

There are at least 2 bad guys left though, so dont take today lightly.

Lorena

01-09-2007, 02:45 PM

3. Jonathan Ezarik
4. Mr. Wednesday
5. Chief Rum
7. Dodgerchick
9. Schmidty
11. Blade6119
14. AlanT

I think your math is slightly off Blade, there are 7 of us.

Blade6119

01-09-2007, 02:47 PM

3. Jonathan Ezarik
4. Mr. Wednesday
5. Chief Rum
7. Dodgerchick
9. Schmidty
11. Blade6119
14. AlanT

I think your math is slightly off Blade, there are 7 of us.

Then you have time to lynch me, nevermind. Tomorrow you will be at end game then, have fun with that

Jonathan Ezarik

01-09-2007, 02:48 PM

There are at least 2 bad guys left though, so dont take today lightly.

Why do you think there are at least two wolves left?

Alan T

01-09-2007, 02:51 PM

Why do you think there are at least two wolves left?

I'm assuming as a wolf he'd know. ;)

I think there is some possibility here that Chief and Blade might be working together and this move would buy chief trust through end game, but I doubt that highly. I think Blade is just messing with us and he's probably the last wolf and doesn't even find it worth fighting a lost cause.

Blade6119

01-09-2007, 02:51 PM

Why do you think there are at least two wolves left?

Because cronin confirmed there were for me

Mr. Wednesday

01-09-2007, 03:27 PM

Why would cronin have done that for you?

Blade6119

01-09-2007, 03:30 PM

Because my role states he has to

Lorena

01-09-2007, 03:39 PM

Because my role states he has to

You must be pretty special for him to do that just for you ;)

st.cronin

01-09-2007, 03:48 PM

I will run the day early if the leading vote getter votes nightfall, or if all those voting for the leading vote getter vote nightfall.

Lorena

01-09-2007, 03:49 PM

vote nightfall

Lorena

01-09-2007, 03:50 PM

sorry blade :(

Blade6119

01-09-2007, 03:50 PM

I promise you all this wont end the game, but so be it.

VOTE NIGHTFALL

Mr. Wednesday

01-09-2007, 03:51 PM

VOTE NIGHTFALL

st.cronin

01-09-2007, 04:14 PM

6 - Blade - AlanT, Chief Rum, Jonathan E, DodgerChick, Mr. Wednesday, Schmidty
1 - Chief Rum - Blade

Chief Rum brings the most serious accusation yet, and Blade is immediately seized and brought to Trial. He is forced into the arches, and for the third straight day, you are relieved to discover that you have killed a Forsaken!

Can there be more amongst you? Or have you won?

NIGHT 6 has begun, deadline 8am ET Wednesday

Lorena

01-09-2007, 04:31 PM

Nice, too bad it wasn't the last baddie.

Jonathan Ezarik

01-09-2007, 06:08 PM

I was really hoping Blade was the last wolf, but since he isn't, I figure I will answer this in case anyone still has doubts about me.

LSG was doing the same to Jonathan and we know Jon voted for her and Lathum so how can he be bad? The thing about WW is that it comes down to timing and unfortunately for Jon, the timing of his votes is what condemns him.

I agree that my timing on the LSG and Lathum votes look bad. Actually, my voting on whole looks pretty bad. I don't think my first vote should be held against me, though, because Anxiety voted for me and that explains my vote.

I still stand by my RPI and Tyrith votes. I explained these votes in an earlier post.

I waited on the LSG vote to see if anyone had gained any knowledge from the night actions. I also didn't want to start a dog-pile on LSG. If I had cast the third vote early on, would Blade and Lathum have exposed themselves by voting for Chief?

As for Lathum, my vote came right after RPI voted for him. As I've stated, I initially pegged Lathum as a wolf, but since RPI believed he was good (and I thought RPI was the seer), I gave Lathum the benefit of the doubt. Once RPI cast his vote, I threw my vote in as well.

I hope that explains all of my votes.

Lorena

01-09-2007, 06:17 PM

FWIW Jon, I think you're good but if you're not, you totally, totally got me.

I'm hopeful Chief Rum gets a good scan tonight... the villagers' lives depend on it (no pressure Chief ;) )

Schmidty

01-09-2007, 06:54 PM

Nice.

Now I'm not sure what to do. I am 95% sure that Jonathan is good, but other than he and Chief, I'm just not sure.

Lathum

01-09-2007, 07:02 PM

figured i'de post here around the deadline we need 5 more players for the small game to begin

Alan T

01-09-2007, 08:39 PM

Well blah, guess we still have another wolf.

Lets hope the bodyguard ability transfered after Brian died.

Chief Rum

01-09-2007, 11:21 PM

Agreed. Because otherwise, I am quite clearly a dead man.

I am scanning MrWednesday tonight.

st.cronin

01-10-2007, 12:23 AM

You are awaken during the night by sounds of a fierce battle! Rushing to the sounds, Mr. Wednesday and Alan T are locked in mortal combat! Mr. Wednesday appears to be merely an apparition, though - could he be a Dreamwalker? Alan T's form is most clearly revealed, and he is a Forsaken! One of your bodyguard steps forward, killing Alan T with a sword. But, it's too late - Mr. Wednesday has been killed by Alan T, as well.

Alan T is dead, he was Forsaken
Mr. Wednesday is dead, he was of the Light
LoneStarGirl is reincarnated, affiliation unkown

Day 7 has begun, deadline Thurs 8pm ET

Schmidty

01-10-2007, 12:27 AM

That was freaking wierd.

Lorena

01-10-2007, 12:38 AM

Uhhh... what.the.fuck?! :confused:

Lorena

01-10-2007, 12:39 AM

OMG, I'm so freaking stunned I'm speechless!

Lorena

01-10-2007, 12:43 AM

I see you in here cronin... laughing I'm sure. Heh, I never expected that! Alright, I'm a have to think about this again cuz everything I thought was true is actually false.

Let's see... Lathum, LSG, Blade and AlanT were all wolves. Barkeep was our seer but Chief inherited his powers, and Mr. W was our bodyguard and one of our wolves resurrected and we don't know what she is?

Dear God, what's happening here? Oh vey, my head hurts.

Lorena

01-10-2007, 12:45 AM

Nope, Mr. W I guess wasn't a BG. It's 12:45am I'm tired and apparently delirious.

Catchya'll on the flipside.

Chief Rum

01-10-2007, 12:46 AM

Okay, I am confused. If LSG is reincarnated, but is of the Light now, does that mean there was another Forsaken besides AlanT? Or that someone who was of Light has become Forsaken? That is just weird.

I did scan MrWednesday last night. Obviously he came up as Light. If bodyguards do block seer scans, it looks like BrianD saved AlanT in more ways than one, as my scan would have revealed him as Forsaken. Actually, that doesn't make sense. Alan would not have been attacked by the wolves that night if he was Forsaken. So BrianD must have been the target for the wolves that night.

I'm very interested to hear what LSG has to say. I'm afraid, though, without further evidence, we may have to lynch her again to be safe.

I am open to suggestions.

Lorena

01-10-2007, 01:00 AM

Chief Rum

01-10-2007, 01:00 AM

Just got a second night PM, which confirms one of my questions. I had vivd dreams of Mr. Wednesday last night. This only serves to confirm further he was the new BG, and that he guarded me last night. Which means AlanT was coming for me.

Lorena

01-10-2007, 01:01 AM

*that should read "willing to sacrifice 2 wolves to gain trust and win.

Chief Rum

01-10-2007, 01:03 AM

Actually Chief, I don't like you suggesting we lynch LSG to "make sure" because she just might be good. The fact you're merely suggesting it makes me suspect you a bit more.

I haven't updated my spreadsheet thinking we were close to endgame so I need to update it when I'm not as tired. I know Blade was bad and a lot of stuff he said might have been to throw us off, but part of me thinks that Chief might really be bad and was willing to sacrifice 2 wolves to win. Who did he supposedly scan? He "gave" us a wolf in Blade and mentions that he was gonna scan Mr. W before any of this happened. He tells us after the fact that Mr. W was good.

Something's not right here.

Come on, DC, don't let yourself overthink things and start reaching for straws. Look at all I have done for the Light in this game. Honestly, if you don't think we should look strongly at LSG, I don't know what else to say. She was Forsaken and she is reincarnated, and you don't even think for one second she might be Forsaken again?

I am only suggesting that as our route, anyway, if we don't have a better candidate. I personally don't have one. The top four I suspected were Blade, Lathum, AlanT and MrW, and they are all dead (and three of them wolves).

Chief Rum

01-10-2007, 01:05 AM

*that should read "willing to sacrifice 2 wolves to gain trust and win.

I don't think that far ahead, and the fact you're even suggesting something let that makes me wonder about your own allegiance.

Your moves have been, IMO, for the Light, though, so I won't let myself be led down to thinking you're not. You're still one of my most trusted.

Lorena

01-10-2007, 01:06 AM

That's a pretty high percentage you're giving yourself Chief. Who in the history of WW has been THAT right?! I don't remember anyone.

Lorena

01-10-2007, 01:09 AM

I don't think that far ahead, and the fact you're even suggesting something let that makes me wonder about your own allegiance.

Yeah, I figured you'd say something like that.

I'm tired and PMSing, this might not be a good time to get into it. I'll come back when my mind is clear.

Chief Rum

01-10-2007, 01:12 AM

That's a pretty high percentage you're giving yourself Chief. Who in the history of WW has been THAT right?! I don't remember anyone.

Wow. Well, I'm not sure what else to say. You seem bent on this. Fine, hang me. You can kick yourself when I am dead and revealed as of the Light.

And as for the percentage, look at my posts. My analysis post revealed Lathum, and I voted for him first. I named Blade as my target from last night, scanned him, and revealed him as Forsaken, which he was (and I voted for him, too). I openly discussed AlanT as a possible wolf in that same analysis post, and revealed this morning that I couldn't scan him, which made him even more suspicious. And I said before the night action that I was going to scan MrWedneday.

I even mentioned LSG as one of the two most likely wolves in my analysis post, but voted for Blade.

Honestly, I have done tons to throw suspicion on the right people here. So you would say I would throw two wolves to the fire for trust. How about three? Four? What number do I need to see killed before you trust me as of the Light?

Lorena

01-10-2007, 01:20 AM

Wow. Well, I'm not sure what else to say. You seem bent on this. Fine, hang me. You can kick yourself when I am dead and revealed as of the Light.

And as for the percentage, look at my posts. My analysis post revealed Lathum, and I voted for him first. I named Blade as my target from last night, scanned him, and revealed him as Forsaken, which he was (and I voted for him, too). I openly discussed AlanT as a possible wolf in that same analysis post, and revealed this morning that I couldn't scan him, which made him even more suspicious. And I said before the night action that I was going to scan MrWedneday.

I even mentioned LSG as one of the two most likely wolves in my analysis post, but voted for Blade.

Honestly, I have done tons to throw suspicion on the right people here. So you would say I would throw two wolves to the fire for trust. How about three? Four? What number do I need to see killed before you trust me as of the Light?

I dunno Chief, you've been a very clever wolf in the past so I wouldn't put it past you. I mean why mention you were gonna scan Mr. W? Aren't seers supposed to keep that stuff secret until AFTER the night actions? And wouldn't you recieve 2 PMs in a row instead of 1 after the night actions and the second one 15 minutes after?

I probably shouldn't be asking these questions now because I'm going to bed, but knowing me I'll forget.

Hope you're around tomorrow Chief.

Chief Rum

01-10-2007, 01:46 AM

I dunno Chief, you've been a very clever wolf in the past so I wouldn't put it past you. I mean why mention you were gonna scan Mr. W? Aren't seers supposed to keep that stuff secret until AFTER the night actions? And wouldn't you recieve 2 PMs in a row instead of 1 after the night actions and the second one 15 minutes after?

I probably shouldn't be asking these questions now because I'm going to bed, but knowing me I'll forget.

Hope you're around tomorrow Chief.

I appreciate that you think I could pull that off, but that isn't the case here.

I am a seer that is out in the open. I have no reason to keep my targets hidden. I fully expected I would die when night actions were announced (not being sure a BG was still alive), so I wanted to get all my information out before then. That way, if my choice of scan works into the night actions somehow, btu I am not around to say anything further, everyone left can use that information however they want.

The two PMs I received were 27 mins apart. Judging from st.cronin's wording, I think he had meant to include the part about MrWednesday and my vivid dreams in my first PM, but it slipped his mind.

Except for an early morning visit to put in another vote, I will not be around all until tomorrow evening, as is usual for me.

Mr. Wednesday

01-10-2007, 01:59 AM

Good luck, folks.

Maybe I'll be seeing you again. :)

Mr. Wednesday

01-10-2007, 01:59 AM

Dola, that's not meant to convey anything other than, seeing that LSG has rejoined you, I can no longer assume that I'm permanently dead. :)

Lorena

01-10-2007, 07:28 AM

The two PMs I received were 27 mins apart. Judging from st.cronin's wording, I think he had meant to include the part about MrWednesday and my vivid dreams in my first PM, but it slipped his mind.

Aha... and you mention it after I pointed it out eh? Interesting...

Well it kinda sucks that you won't be around for discussion as I'm very curious to hear what others have to say. Alan threw a whole bunch of his wolf buddies under the bus to gain trust and he did; I wouldn't be surprised if you did too... it's the perfect scenario for a wolf.

Lorena

01-10-2007, 07:28 AM

dola,

So assuming you're telling the truth Chief, who do you think are suspects? I know you mentioned LSG, but anyone else?

Chief Rum

01-10-2007, 08:09 AM

Aha... and you mention it after I pointed it out eh? Interesting...

Well it kinda sucks that you won't be around for discussion as I'm very curious to hear what others have to say. Alan threw a whole bunch of his wolf buddies under the bus to gain trust and he did; I wouldn't be surprised if you did too... it's the perfect scenario for a wolf.

I am responding to your questions, DC; of course, I am saying it after you point it out. If I sit here and give second-by-second details of everything and every spare thought, I would have a gargantuan post that would even make my normal posts look small. Just because I don't bother to explain something until you ask doesn't make it mean something more than it is.

I said it before, and I'll say it again. If you honestly go down this route and lead others here, too, I will be laughing my butt off when you see what happens when I am lynched. Talk about over-conspiracy theorizing. You will have wasted a day and perhaps given the game to the wolves.

Think very carefully, DC. Don't ignore the tons of evidence that goes against your little pet theory. And there is tons.

Chief Rum

01-10-2007, 08:16 AM

dola,

So assuming you're telling the truth Chief, who do you think are suspects? I know you mentioned LSG, but anyone else?

I don't really have any right now other than whom have I have already said. Unless someone comes up with a likely theory about one of the others remaining, our best target is LoneStarGirl, the former wolf.

If she is a wolf again, good. If not, she should know who the other wolf is, because she was communicating with them before. If she can't say who it is, we can see who she votes for.

Best candidate remaining besides LSG, and without me doing my voting analysis is Schmidty, I believe. Most of the others still have very strong reasons for looking good. His main point for him is that he wasn't around to save LSG, and that that seemed unlikely. Now, with so many wolves running around, I am thinking it more likely he is a wolf.

But I have to make a choice now, since I will be gone all day. So I am going with LSG.

VOTE LONESTARGIRL

LoneStarGirl

01-10-2007, 09:23 AM

What a suprise! We have five people left, and I assume one baddie. The game started out with Lathum, Blade, Me bad. We converted Alant and after I died they converted somebody else. Each of us had a conversion power and I was going to use mine night 4 but of course I died. So I assume Lathum used his night 4. I haven't really been paying attention to the game so I have a lot of reviewing to do. But I immeditely suspect Cheif Rum because he voted for me.

Jonathan Ezarik

01-10-2007, 10:16 AM

A very interesting night. I'm going to spew my thoughts out and let's see what happens.

1) Chief is a wolf - If LSG is correct, Chief was converted on the fourth night. The next two days he leads the charge against Lathum and Blade. If there were four wolves in the game at that time, they wouldn't have a problem with sacrificing two of them to gain the trust of everyone else.

2) Chief is not a wolf - He has been helpful in nabbing wolves. And when he came out against Lathum, Alan held back. He eventually voted for Lathum, but changed his vote at the end. If they were working together to gain trust, I think that Alan would have stuck with his Lathum vote and not wavered.

3) LSG is a wolf - She was a wolf once, so why not again?

4) LSG is not a wolf - She was a wolf once, so why again? I don't think st.cronin would put her back in the game if she was a wolf again. Plus, I can only believe that one wolf remains. If this is so, the wolf was already in play before Alan died or the game would have ended.

5) I'm glad Alan is dead - Last night when I was trying to figure out who I was going to go after today, the only name that kept popping in my head was Alan's. I wasn't sure what kind of case I could make against him, so I'm glad I don't have to.

6) Mr. Wednesday was the bodyguard - Unless he acquired this role after Brian died, this means I was wrong about Brian and he really was a spy role. If Mr. W got the role after Brian died, that means he could have protected someone on night five. But no one dreamed of him, correct? Does this mean that he didn't guard anyone (maybe himself?) or does it mean that the bodyguard doesn't appear in the dreams. If this is true, then Chief is lying about dreaming of him. But it makes sense that Mr. W would have been guarding Chief last night, especially if the wolves thought that the bodyguard role was out of play. And from the way I read things, it looks like Mr. W was guarding someone. But whom?

7) Mr. Wednesday was not the bodyguard - Is it possible that he had a role that allowed him to take out a wolf if he was attacked? Perhaps a brutal villager role (if such a thing exists)?

8) I have no idea what the hell is going on, and I'm talking out of my buttocks - Self-explanatory.

For now, I'm leaning towards not lynching either Chief or LSG. If Chief is a seer, we need him alive. As for LSG, I have a hard time believing that she would come back as a wolf.

Unfortunately, that leaves Schmidty, Dodgerchick, and myself. I know I'm good, and I think Dodgerchick is, too. I haven't had a feeling about Schmidty all game, so I'm going to go back and study his posts again.

Lorena

01-10-2007, 10:22 AM

I am responding to your questions, DC; of course, I am saying it after you point it out. If I sit here and give second-by-second details of everything and every spare thought, I would have a gargantuan post that would even make my normal posts look small. Just because I don't bother to explain something until you ask doesn't make it mean something more than it is.

I said it before, and I'll say it again. If you honestly go down this route and lead others here, too, I will be laughing my butt off when you see what happens when I am lynched. Talk about over-conspiracy theorizing. You will have wasted a day and perhaps given the game to the wolves.

Think very carefully, DC. Don't ignore the tons of evidence that goes against your little pet theory. And there is tons.

Yeah well I don't know what to think. I just don't understand why you decided to tell us that you were scanning Mr. W; I mean shouldn't that stuff be kept secret until after nighttime?

A part of me believes you because blade voted for you 3 times was it? I haven't tallied the votes so I'm unsure. And if Brian was our original BG and from cronin's write-up it kinda sounded like Mr. W became the new one, then your being the seer sounds about right. Since you inherited Barkeep's powers, I'm assuming you knew who he scanned but since you won't be here until later, I guess you can't tell us.

And the "I can't wait to see your face" comment has been used so many times by wolves (I mean hell, blade used it and he was one) it's almost laughable.

I dunno... I really don't :confused::confused::confused:

Lorena

01-10-2007, 10:27 AM

LSG, any ideas on how or who resurrected you? If you can help with that it might get us closer to the truth.

Jonathan Ezarik

01-10-2007, 10:30 AM

Some more questions for LSG:

On what night was Alan converted?

Why the fourth night for your conversion attempt? Why not sooner?

What happened on the first three nights?

Jonathan Ezarik

01-10-2007, 10:35 AM

Some more questions for LSG:

On what night was Alan converted?

Why the fourth night for your conversion attempt? Why not sooner?

What happened on the first three nights?

Jonathan Ezarik

01-10-2007, 10:38 AM

Sorry about the double posting. I have no idea why it did that.

LoneStarGirl

01-10-2007, 10:58 AM

Well like the villagers we were unaware of all our powers. I think it was the second or third night Blade got a message saying he could convert somebody and that is when he did alant. The night before I died I got a message saying I could convert somebody. We talked about it that day and were leaning towards RPI Fan but I died and could not convert. I assume that Lathum got the same mesage Blade and I did about converting somebody and converted them after I was dead.

LoneStarGirl

01-10-2007, 11:05 AM

Blade, Lathum, and I had some communication problems, we could never get online at the same time or for very long. The first night we decided to go with spleen because I voted for him and it would be a good way to clear me, because of course a wolf wouldn't kill the person they voted for. The second night we went after BK because Blade said he got hints that BK was a seer or bodyguard. Night three we never talked about who we were going to kill (to my knowledge) so Blade decided to kill anxiety. Any other questions?

Lorena

01-10-2007, 11:27 AM

Jonathan Ezarik

01-10-2007, 11:28 AM

The second night we went after BK because Blade said he got hints that BK was a seer or bodyguard.

Thanks for the answers. I find this very interesting.

LoneStarGirl

01-10-2007, 12:51 PM

Oh sorry DC, I was concentrating on JE's questions I forgot about you. I honestly have no idea who reserected me. I thought I was out of the game until I checked into FOFC this morning and got a pm from St. Cronin basically saying Congratulations, you are back in the game!

Jonathan Ezarik

01-10-2007, 02:04 PM

LoneStarGirl

01-10-2007, 03:13 PM

Honestly Jonathan, I didn't talk to Lathum after day 2. Our schedules conflicted so much. There is a chance he could convert just like me, I dont know, when I talked to Blade that night to discuss killing RPI we didn't talk about Lathum or his conversion. I wish I knew more about what happened after I died, but the only times Blade and lathum could get online together was really late when I was busy so I only got to talk to both of them at the same time maybe twice.

LoneStarGirl

01-10-2007, 03:16 PM

All I know is that since I came back good Blade or Lathum HAD to convert somebody after I died or this game would not be going on right now. I dont know who, Blade and I only talked about converting RPI-fan. We figured he would be the best bet since he was the only one that really voted for me. I dont know why they ended up killing him, he would have been the perfect conversion

Schmidty

01-10-2007, 03:50 PM

Best candidate remaining besides LSG, and without me doing my voting analysis is Schmidty, I believe. Most of the others still have very strong reasons for looking good. His main point for him is that he wasn't around to save LSG, and that that seemed unlikely. Now, with so many wolves running around, I am thinking it more likely he is a wolf.

You are totally and utterly wrong.

Someone test me. If I'm killed, you'll be losing a player with an important ability. If it gets down to it, and I have to reveal, I will, but for self-preservation (during the night phase), I'd prefer not to.

Jonathan Ezarik

01-10-2007, 04:51 PM

Someone test me. If I'm killed, you'll be losing a player with an important ability. If it gets down to it, and I have to reveal, I will, but for self-preservation (during the night phase), I'd prefer not to.

What ability is more important than the seer? And we know you're not the bodyguard. So, what can it be? At this stage of the game, I don't think that you keeping this a secret is helping us.

Lorena

01-10-2007, 05:00 PM

I hate to say it but after looking back, Blade went after Chief so hard that I'm starting to think he might actually be telling the truth. Chief mentioned he dreamt of Mr. W and cronin's summary from yesterday mentioned Mr. W being some kind of apparition which I think he inherited from BrianD, much like Chief inherited the seer power from Barkeep.

So in summary, I think Mr. W inherited Brian's ability to "spy" on people and Chief inherited the seer power from Barkeep. I think the bodyguard might still be alive (as noted on cronin's summary from yesterday)

I'm not checking this thread until waaaaay after deadline. Chief, Jon and I seemed to have the same role from the beginning and Schmidty I feel is actually okay.

That leaves Lonestargirl

vote lonestargirl

I hope this is over

Jonathan Ezarik

01-10-2007, 05:09 PM

So in summary, I think Mr. W inherited Brian's ability to "spy" on people and Chief inherited the seer power from Barkeep. I think the bodyguard might still be alive (as noted on cronin's summary from yesterday)

If Mr. W wasn't the bodyguard, how was he able to fight Alan? And I took st.cronin's mention of a bodyguard as a NPC and not an actual player.

Schmidty

01-10-2007, 06:27 PM

What ability is more important than the seer? And we know you're not the bodyguard. So, what can it be? At this stage of the game, I don't think that you keeping this a secret is helping us.

My ability is that I can cancel out someone else's night action 3 times per game. I have used the ability once.

In the meantime:

VOTE LoneStarGirl

Jonathan Ezarik

01-10-2007, 06:35 PM

How do you do this?

Jonathan Ezarik

01-10-2007, 06:44 PM

Well, it doesn't matter what I vote because LSG is getting lynched again today, but I don't like it. I'm also not satisfied with Schmidty's answer.

VOTE SCHMIDTY

LoneStarGirl

01-10-2007, 06:48 PM

vote schmidty

I guess it doesn't matter now as I am the only one in the thread with 10 minutes to go

st.cronin

01-10-2007, 07:00 PM

Write up will be a little bit late tonight. Lots going on here at the cronin home.

st.cronin

01-10-2007, 07:08 PM

3 - LoneStarGirl - Chief Rum, Dodgerchick, Schmidty
2 - Schmidty - Jonathan E, LoneStarGirl

LoneStarGirl is again led towards the Trial, and begins to snarl ... you all will pay! The Dark Lord will make you suffer, fools! This is your last chance ... arrgggh!!!

She was Forsaken! The Dark Lord had reincarnated her!

GAME OVER - AES SEDAI WIN

Jonathan Ezarik

01-10-2007, 07:12 PM

Wow. I was wrong. Cool. Good game everyone. And good game st.cronin. This one had so many twists and turns I had no idea what was going on (as was probably obvious). I really enjoyed this.

st.cronin

01-10-2007, 07:19 PM

Roles:

1. Barkeep49 - Aes Sedai

2. RPI-Fan - Was able to survive either a lynching or a night kill. If he survived one, he was then vulnerable to the other.

3. Jonathan Ezarik - Aes Sedai

4. Mr. Wednesday - Aes Sedai

5. Chief Rum - Aes Sedai

6. Anxiety - Aes Sedai

7. Dodgerchick - Same role as RPI-Fan

8. path12 - Seer; once per night, could test any player to find out if they were Forsaken. This ability was passed on to Barkeep and then Chief Rum.

9. Schmidty - Twice per game, as a night action, was able to keep another player from exercising their night actions.

10. Tyrith - Aes Sedai potential convert

11. Blade6119 - FORSAKEN

12. BrianD - Bodyguard, could protect any player except himself

13. Lathum - FORSAKEN

14. AlanT - Aes Sedai potential convert

15. spleen1015 - Aes Sedai

16. LoneStarGirl - Forsaken, would have been seen as good by the seer, and would be reincarnated IF the only Forsaken left in the game were converts.

Additional Mechanic: Both the bodyguard and seer role would be passed on to a normal Aes Sedai the night following that players death. The seer role was passed on to Barkeep, and then Chief Rum. The bodyguard role was passed on to Mr. Wednesday.

The normal Aes Sedais were put into a random order, and whenever a seer, bodyguard, or duke was needed, that list would be consulted.

This was a tough game for the Forsaken to win, but I think it was fairly balanced. Feedback and questions are welcomed.

Alan T

01-10-2007, 07:30 PM

I had fun, thanks for the game Cronin. If I had known there would be another wolf, I definitly would have played the last night different. I assumed it was just me vs 5 good guys. Figured Chief was going to keep revealing good guys and I would be behind the 8-ball.

I assumed that Chief would scan either Schmidty or Mr.W and that would leave me only one decent person to argue to be lynched instead of me the next day and it just looked ugly. So I took the chance that the bodyguard hadnt passed on and hoped I could take out Chief. I even admitted in my PM to st.cronin that I figured I was toast. Figured I had to try though. If I had known LSG was coming back, I would have definitly played that one differently. :)

Oh well, I'm pretty proud of myself. I got lucky in my vote on LSG. I wasn't sure about her, but my vote seemed to prevent any possibility of her being saved. But I definitly figured out Lathum and Blade that day, from watching them it seemed fairly obvious to me they were both bad. Made it really difficult for me to squirm out of that the next day when I ended up on their team. Especially when Chief picked up my accusations and ran with them. :)

hoopsguy

01-10-2007, 07:31 PM

So how did the conversion mechanic work in this one? Did the Forsaken have the opportunity to target someone for this each evening in addition to a night kill? Could the bodyguard block both a conversion and a night kill, or only one?

st.cronin

01-10-2007, 07:36 PM

The Forsaken had to pick the right player to kill to get a conversion. The bodyguard would have blocked a conversion, but a bodyguard block would end in both the bodyguard and the Forsaken being killed.

The Forsaken had one 2-kill night - they decided to kill both Brian and Alan that night. Brian was protecting Alan, but since he was killed first, the bodyguard mechanism was not in play.

Lorena

01-10-2007, 08:54 PM

BrianD

01-10-2007, 09:16 PM

OK, so what was so bad about my choices for people to protect? I protected AlanT the first night, RPI the second night since he was a known good and someone to build a CoT around, and JE the third night figuring that the wolves would go for a random kill to make sure they avoided me.

Jonathan Ezarik

01-10-2007, 09:21 PM

I thought it was odd to guard me and not yourself. Seeing that you couldn't guard yourself, it makes sense. I was really surprised the wolves didn't take you out that third night. I guess they figured you would be guarding yourself, too.

Alan T

01-10-2007, 09:22 PM

I dont think anything was wrong with your choices. When you guarded Jonathan I was still trying to figure out your role. I think I was figuring if you were the bodyguard you would have protected yourself night 3. I figured you were a candidate that night.

Alan T

01-10-2007, 09:23 PM

Well jon said what I was going to say I guess :)

Chief Rum

01-10-2007, 09:50 PM

Especially when Chief picked up my accusations and ran with them. :)

You probably won't believe this, but I had those suspicions all along. You just voiced them before I did. It was only reinforced by my vote analysis. ;)

Chief Rum

01-10-2007, 09:56 PM

Thanks for the game cronin, it made my brain short circuit with scenarios.

I had no idea I had the same role as RPI, that's pretty cool. Tonight's vote was probably the hardest one to make because I honestly had no idea. I had to go back to my spreadsheet and re-read the dialogue between chief and blade to see if I could find a crack and I thought I found it.

Chief, you play such an excellent baddie that I had myself convinced you were yanking our chains; sorry bout that :o

Thanks, DC, and don't worry about it. I know this game can get people twisted around. You made the right choice in the end this day, and if you hadn't, we would have been in some serious trouble. Especially since LSG would have scanned as of the Light to me (well, until she killed me anyway, with no BG).

I actually think there was a tremendous opportunity for the wolves in this game, with three conversions and a ressurection. While counteracted by the passing BG/seer roles, I don't think it equates too well, because the good roles are out of action for two nights when the ability holder gets killed (well, night-killed).

And then you toss on that a very solid vet group like Lathum and Blade and LSG were given wolf roles, and then they brought on Alan? Ouch, the odds were stacked against us, but we managed to prevail, so kudos to the good guys.

st.cronin, why couldn't I read AlanT the night he was converted? And when did Schmidty use his power (and on whom, and did it do anything)?

Thanks for a great game, st.cronin. Lots of twists and turns in this one did something that rarely happens in big games--it kept things exciting and up in the air right up to the end.