Werewolf XLVI - Sun And Shadow (Game Thread) - Game Over! Cultists win!

[hoopsguy]

I'm hoping not to be converted - it happens with shocking regularity in games with that mechanic. And it sucks flipping sides after putting in some time/energy with your initial team.

Games I've been converted:
X-Com
Star Wars
Thing
Spawn 2
Them Gays

So if the threat of being watched/viewed/whatever keeps the Shadow away for an evening or three then I'm all for it.

[Joe]

Actually, 50% or more (rather than more than 50%) is automatic. No details on what happens tonight if they go for different people, as both would be automatic but there's a one conversion cap.

*automatic if the person can be found and is not protected

[Mr. Wednesday]

Right.

[ImTheCrew]

ahh good i thought i was out, so could someone help me? ive been cleansed??

[Joe]

ahh good i thought i was out, so could someone help me? ive been cleansed??

you lose your magical role but still have a mundane role, if you had any before. and can still vote, etc.

[SnDvls]

you lose your magical role but still have a mundane role, if you had any before. and can still vote, etc.

also you can use any item you have or find...so you might want to just search for items tonight and since you are cleansed any help in what you find could help, unless it is too powerful in the wrong hands if stolen.

[Swaggs]

So, did the Shadow/Sun members know who one another were today or not?

I'm bouncing around, in my head, how that may have affected mercy/punishment voting (particularly late ones).

[Joe]

So, did the Shadow/Sun members know who one another were today or not?

I'm bouncing around, in my head, how that may have affected mercy/punishment voting (particularly late ones).

Unknown about the sun members. The role description says that shadow members can anonymously speak to each other, and can reveal their identities if they chose. So unknown again. Yes, this is a real informative post, I know.

[SnDvls]

you're just trying to build up your post count here so you aren't seen as a quiet one right ;)

[ntndeacon]

I would doubt they would reveal who they are. remember someone will turn eventually. and they are not goingto want the cleansed person to know who they are. Because most often the cleansed will tell.

[SnDvls]

I would doubt they would reveal who they are. remember someone will turn eventually. and they are not goingto want the cleansed person to know who they are. Because most often the cleansed will tell.

not only that, but the cleared will have become cleansed and thus swithced sides and victory conditions so it only makes sense to try and win and take down the shadows.

[Schmidty]

While reading things before the vote (see my last post), I got into a huge argument with my wife. It went on for awhile, and then we made up and went to dinner, and stuff. I'm just now back to my computer.

I apologize for pulling yet another Schmidty.

[Peregrine]

You wake up the next morning, unsure what will happen next. No one is dead on the floor, the danger you're facing is far more insidious than that.

This morning's Count, the seer informs you, is 3. Three Shadow players are among you.

[Chief Rum]

Voting

Each day all players can vote publicly for whoever they want, and can change their votes as many times as they want. This is called the name vote. They also must vote publicly whether they want to punish the person who receives the most votes, or show mercy. This is a separate vote, called the punishment vote, and will apply to whoever gets the most votes! All name votes must be received by 7:30 pm EST, however, there is a small grace period until 8 pm EST, where anyone can change their punishment votes ONLY. This will allow players to make an informed decision knowing who the victim will be. If you won't be around for that time of day, make sure to get your punishment vote in before then!

Ties in the name vote can be broken by particular roles or magical items. If the tie is not broken, no punishment happens that day.

Ties in the punishment vote end in a result of mercy.

There seemed to be some confusion about ties today. I thought I would bold this part form the rules.

[Chief Rum]

Outside of getting someone from Shadow or perhaps Sun, I'm not sure we could have done too much better with our Day One cleansing. It's a relatively non-critical role, it seems, on a relatively quiet WW player (historically).

It does lead me to think of one possible villager initiative we could use if the night actions don't point us toward a Shadow or good cleansing candidate. Perhaps we should aim to "cleanse" an active and influential WW player to start a COT. This player would necessarily have to have what is considered to be a low priority role (or better yet, one that helps Shadow--what if ImTheCrew was considered such a villager, and had also been the Artificer? We would have done the village two favors then by cleansing ITC).

I don't know if we should actively do this sort of thing, but I think it's something to consider at least. I think if we did it, it should be on volunteer basis only. Only each individual player will know if he has the time and has had the past WW history to be an active and helpful villager, and he will also know if his role is a critical one or noncritical one.

I would advise not making public recommendations of others who would be a good option. Not only does that get us into a needless and possibly provacative debate on the individual "WW villager" merits of different players, but it also puts those suggested players into a position of appearing to be in a critical role if they turn down the opportunity. That information would only help Shadow.

Anyway, throwing it out there.

[Chief Rum]

Not sure how much it matters now, but I noted the debate on whether the early voters were aware of the two vote nature of the name and punishment votes. Clearly there was some confusion.

I just wanted to say I understood that voting mechanism correctly, and I voted as I did, not out of any confusion for how the vote was to be done, but simply because I knew I wouldn't be around before deadline.

It will be the same today/tomorrow/Tuesday, with me leaving for work about 10:15 PDT.

[hoopsguy]

Well, I learned an interesting little factiod last night while I slept. Might as well get it out there now since I'm going to have pretty limited computer time today.

I was slept last night and I'm able to determine that it was by the Warlock as opposed to it being completed through a potion "dose".

Order of Actions:
Dose
Magical Night Action
Shadow Corruption

So, the Warlock should be able to vouch that I was not involved with either being corrupted last night or corrupting anyone else. Not that I'm asking him to publicly do so (and reveal his role) but that person should consider this with his own personal trust list. And I'm hoping that was part of the individual's thought process when choosing me for last night.

If I was going to be around more, I would probably have held onto this info for awhile to feel people out before revealing it or potentially keeping it to myself for a day or two. There is probably some value in doing that (Warlock can only do this two more times) but I believe that is mitigated by our collective need to track actions as much as possible to make informed votes.

The fact that the Warlock acted on me implies that he is still a cultist - my understanding of the rules is that he would have lost this power if turned.

[hoopsguy]

Dola -

factiod = factoid (not sure either is a word, but 2nd is what I meant to say)

Also, it is possible that the Warlock could have been corrupted after acting on me last night, but it strongly appears that the Warlock was not one of the first two Shadows.

[Alan T]

Hoops's topic brings up something that I was thinking about a bit last night. There are a few different methods for someone to be inhibited from their action, between magical roles and items. Obviously one such was used on Hoops last night. I wonder how far that can help us with a CoT though, as it made me think about how the shadow's night actions work.

We know for tonight there are 3 players influenced by the shadow. We know they have some rudimentary communication of some sort (once a day blast from the boss? Short messages sent through the GM? etc). If all three of them submit different names for who to convert tonight, its only a 33% chance of success. However if all three submit the same name, its a 100% chance of success.

Thats important for us to remember in terms of how their conversions work, but it got me thinking to the next level.. What does it mean if one of us get lucky and inhibit someone influenced by the shadow. So lets say, of the three who were submitting the same name, suddenly one of the three was inhibited through some means.. Now you only have 2 players influenced by the shadow submitting the same name for conversion, but its still the 100% chance as they both submitted the same name.

So it seems to me that the night inhibiting actions really don't tell us alot and really don't seem to prevent alot either. Using Hoops's case as an example, He claims to have been inhibited by the warlock, which seems like a silly claim to make unless its true. However what does that really tell us about Hoops? That he wasn't able to do a night action is it. There was still a conversion that occured, so Hoops couldn't have chosen that player for the conversion. However, it doesn't mean that Hoops isn't shadow though, it just means there must have been another player influenced by the shadow as well as him (if he is bad), which is something we already knew.

So I'm not sure how great or helpful or useful the action inhibitor roles are for us right now. Also please note, I was using Hoops as an example since he mentioned he was inhibited last night, I have no reason to believe one way or another that he is good or bad right now. Just using him as a method to illustrate that the action upon him really doesn't unfortunatly tell us much about him.

[KWhit]

Well, I learned an interesting little factiod last night while I slept. Might as well get it out there now since I'm going to have pretty limited computer time today.

I was slept last night and I'm able to determine that it was by the Warlock as opposed to it being completed through a potion "dose".

Order of Actions:
Dose
Magical Night Action
Shadow Corruption

So, the Warlock should be able to vouch that I was not involved with either being corrupted last night or corrupting anyone else. Not that I'm asking him to publicly do so (and reveal his role) but that person should consider this with his own personal trust list. And I'm hoping that was part of the individual's thought process when choosing me for last night.

If I was going to be around more, I would probably have held onto this info for awhile to feel people out before revealing it or potentially keeping it to myself for a day or two. There is probably some value in doing that (Warlock can only do this two more times) but I believe that is mitigated by our collective need to track actions as much as possible to make informed votes.

The fact that the Warlock acted on me implies that he is still a cultist - my understanding of the rules is that he would have lost this power if turned.

The bolded part isn't necessarily true, if I understand the rules right. Someone can be corrupted when asleep, can't they?

[Peregrine]

The bolded part isn't necessarily true, if I understand the rules right. Someone can be corrupted when asleep, can't they?

Yes, it makes it quite easy, in fact. But if you're magically slept you can't take any actions.

[Lathum]

Alan- Thats basicly what I said yesterday. It is virtualy impossible to have a COT that doesn't include people who have been cleansed already.

Lets say it was I who put hoops to sllep. That would put myself and hoops at an elevated trust level for today only. After that we get knocked down a peg because we still can be viable targets tonight.

[Lathum]

I trust hoops slightly more because I don't think he could have been out converting anyone had he been a shadow since he was sleeping. Since there was a conversion it makes it slightly less likely hoops is a shadow.

[Mustang]

Vote Schmidty

Vote Punishment

Someone has to be the first to be voted on. Just throwing it out there for the time being. Although, my guess is the shadow would have went for someone more active for a conversion last night. So, might be better to point accusations at one of the top 3 instead.

[Mustang]

For what it's worth, I slept in the storage room last night.

[DaddyTorgo]

i might potentially have something very helpful shortly, either to myself or everyone.

[Mustang]

There might be some benefit in knowing who slept where the previous night. There are roles that people could have used where they might want to know who they were in the room with to possibility eliminate or inciminate them.

Yes, fishing for information but, not because of anything I can do.

[DaddyTorgo]

yeah. the only way we'll get a CoT is through cleansed people I think, agreeing with what others have said about how just because someone is cleared one day doesn't mean they won't be turned the next.

[hoopsguy]

The bolded part isn't necessarily true, if I understand the rules right. Someone can be corrupted when asleep, can't they?

Yes, it makes it quite easy, in fact. But if you're magically slept you can't take any actions.

Interesting, I thought the sleep acted as a blocker for all actions. Clearly I misunderstood that option, although that does not change the fact that I was not corrupted while asleep last night.

Will check in again this afternoon.

[Tyrith]

I slept in the Sitting Room last night. Nothing interesting happened.

[Alan T]

I trust hoops slightly more because I don't think he could have been out converting anyone had he been a shadow since he was sleeping. Since there was a conversion it makes it slightly less likely hoops is a shadow.

You see my point earlier though took it a step further. I don't know if being slept even gives you an elevated trust even for today. It means only there had to have been at least 1 other bad guy to convert someone (which we already knew was true).

It means that for everyone else in my eyes you are a 1/8 chance of being a shadow yesterday. For Hoops, he is a 1/15 chance of being a shadow. So I think there are many better targets than Hoops today, I guess what I am saying is I don't think these imobolizing actions really help us as much as they help the shadows even. THey don't clear people, they dont stop a conversion from happening.. it only seems to help the shadows have a better chance of converting if what peregrine says is true.

[Alan T]

After thinking about it a while, I also have a big problem with Chief's plan of trying to setup a bunch of villagers to cleanse to set up a circle of trust.

At first glance, that sounds like a good plan as its the only surefire way to get trust.. but in more thought, its somewhat similar to being in a normal WW game and saying lets kill all of the Villagers so we know they can trust them, then it will be easy to pick off the wolves.

The shadow players here need a majority of the UNCLEANSED players to win. so if we follow through with CHief's plan and purposely cleanse 4-5 of our fellow cultist volunteers to set up a Circle of trust, he's right we'll have a good 5 people we can trust. We also will watch the shadow in that time likely convert another 3-4 players. Meaning out of 18 original players, there will be 5 cleansed players, 5-6 shadow players and 6-7 cultist left uncleansed. Basically putting us into end game and having to be perfect the rest of the way on who we cleanse.

Between yesterday's attempts at trying to get people to talk about their mundane(non-magical) roles, and today trying to setup a cleansing of volunteering cultists, thats two pretty huge ideas that Chief has thrown out that would be very benefitial to the shadow and very harmful for us. I'm a bit concerned about this.

I wanted to get this thought of mine out there before Chief left for the day, as its only fair to let him have time to respond.

[KWhit]

At first glance, that sounds like a good plan as its the only surefire way to get trust.. but in more thought, its somewhat similar to being in a normal WW game and saying lets kill all of the Villagers so we know they can trust them, then it will be easy to pick off the wolves.

The shadow players here need a majority of the UNCLEANSED players to win.

You're absolutely right. I keep forgetting about that part.

[DaddyTorgo]

You're absolutely right. I keep forgetting about that part.

d'oh! alan's right. ballz.

peregrine clearly thought of that in the design of the game.

[KWhit]

d'oh! alan's right. ballz.

peregrine clearly thought of that in the design of the game.


Which makes sense from a game balance perspective. A cleanse is like a kill in that regard.

[KWhit]

i might potentially have something very helpful shortly, either to myself or everyone.

Anxiously awaiting the cool news.

[Alan T]

Which makes sense from a game balance perspective. A cleanse is like a kill in that regard.

There was an item listed I believe that can restore someone's magic role back to them after having lost it from being cleansed, but I have to guess thats a rare exception and not the rule. So its not exactly like being killed in most games, but as far as the winning equation goes it is, which is my problem with Chief's suggested plan.

[DaddyTorgo]

Anxiously awaiting the cool news.

well i'm not sure it's in my best interests to reveal it.just some more information on one of our cultists. i'm mulling over revealing it as i work. yeah...work...which i should be doing more of.

in fact...the more i think of it, the less i think it makes any sense to reveal it. it wouldn't do us any good to have the information be put out there publicly.

oh, and the other cool news was me checking an item i have to see what the usage rules are/see what i can do with it. doesn't really look all that useful though, at least not at this point in the game :(

[DaddyTorgo]

well i'm not sure it's in my best interests to reveal it.just some more information on one of our cultists. i'm mulling over revealing it as i work. yeah...work...which i should be doing more of.

in fact...the more i think of it, the less i think it makes any sense to reveal it. it wouldn't do us any good to have the information be put out there publicly.

oh, and the other cool news was me checking an item i have to see what the usage rules are/see what i can do with it. doesn't really look all that useful though, at least not at this point in the game :(

that's what happens when i get all excited about what i found without checking first to see what it can/can't do. perils of posting without being fully awake.

[KWhit]

well i'm not sure it's in my best interests to reveal it.just some more information on one of our cultists. i'm mulling over revealing it as i work. yeah...work...which i should be doing more of.

in fact...the more i think of it, the less i think it makes any sense to reveal it. it wouldn't do us any good to have the information be put out there publicly.

oh, and the other cool news was me checking an item i have to see what the usage rules are/see what i can do with it. doesn't really look all that useful though, at least not at this point in the game :(

You are such a tease.


:)

[Barkeep49]

I slept in the kitchen and while nothing of interest happened there I can tell you that I know that one of the potentially best roles for the good guys is not in the game.

[DaddyTorgo]

You are such a tease.


:)

i do what i can.

on a serious note though, i guess we really need to develop some type of strategy still, or are we still thinking we'll just go by voting records to try to nail down shadow?

we have 3 out there...that means even if we vote at random tonight we have a 1/6 chance of hitting shadow. which isn't horrible. but let's see if we can't narrow that down...we figure hoops is good at least today...so that's a 3/17 chance. i know i'm good, so that's 3/16...I feel like I personally can get it down to 3/14 at least. not horrible odds... better than 20%. And that's without even digging into deep analysis of what people have posted to guess who within that group has a higher probability of being good or being shadow.

[DaddyTorgo]

I slept in the kitchen and while nothing of interest happened there I can tell you that I know that one of the potentially best roles for the good guys is not in the game.

not in the game? what do you mean? i thought we had 18 roles, 18 players?

[Barkeep49]

not in the game? what do you mean? i thought we had 18 roles, 18 players?
I report, you decide. I think it suggests that the Shadow (and possibly the sun?) nominally have roles but can't use them? Dunno, but that's the info I have.

[Joe]

I did not sleep in a common room. Maybe I shouldnt reveal this.. oh well. I slept in hiding place, part of my mundane role. I also know who has the scroll of identity. Or, who had it, if it was used last night. I do not know if it was used or not.

[BrianD]

I did not sleep in a common room. Maybe I shouldnt reveal this.. oh well. I slept in hiding place, part of my mundane role. I also know who has the scroll of identity. Or, who had it, if it was used last night. I do not know if it was used or not.

This is interesting. Assuming the Shadow don't sleep, this makes you as hidden as them at night.

[Lathum]

I slept in the alchemy closet and had an uneventful night

[Swaggs]

I slept in the storage room last night and used the scroll of identify as my night action.

I learned the role of one player and whether or not he has a mundane power.

[Swaggs]

dola... should read "scroll of identity" above.

[Joe]

swaggs was indeed who o saw had the scroll

[Swaggs]

Were you able to see who I used it on?

If so, we could form a semi-COT for the day, as I would be able to know that you were obviously not doing anything "Shadowish," and you obviously know that I was not.

[Mustang]

I'm starting to wonder if it would be best if we potentially start revealing roles to some degree. We are definitely going to need to get information about people from some of these roles. There are other roles that can lend protection if people leave themselves out in the open..

[BrianD]

I'm not sure revealing roles will be that much of a help today. It seems like the biggest help would be to let these roles work and wait until someone can be identified. Seems like there are roles and actions which should be able to identify the Shadow. This should be our main weapon.

[Joe]

Were you able to see who I used it on?

If so, we could form a semi-COT for the day, as I would be able to know that you were obviously not doing anything "Shadowish," and you obviously know that I was not.

No, I was only able to see that it was in your possession, not that it was even used.

[Alan T]

The problem with the role reveal thing is that it seems very likely the 18 roles = 18 players from what has been said. I am guessing those who were selected as the starter shadow players ended up having their roles that were randomly chosen for them stripped. Whether or not they knew they "used to" be that role I have no idea.

What we could most likely surely get though is the Artificer through elimination, but you also would likely give up roles such as the seers and bodyguards and such.

You comment that people could protect the key roles.. but who would do that?
The ritualist can guard only 3 times in the entire game
The Spiritmaster can only protect the room they are in and only twice.

Thats it for protection roles, there are possibly items, but that would then require some form of protection item to exist AND be in the right hands AND be used on the right person...

So I fail to see how we can for sure have protection for key roles that choose to reveal themselves. It seems more likely to set them up as conversion targets to if nothing else remove a role from use that could harm the shadow.

[KWhit]

This is interesting. Assuming the Shadow don't sleep, this makes you as hidden as them at night.

Did I miss that somewhere in the rules? Or are guessing?

[KWhit]

That should say "Are you guessing?"

[Mr. Wednesday]

I slept in the sitting room. I'm not aware of anything interesting happening there.

[Mr. Wednesday]

I observed before, there are two roles that are useful enough to the Shadow to deserve immediate cleansing, and two roles that are useful enough to the cult to deserve protection. The balance go either way.

[Swaggs]

Does anyone have any theories on the type of night actions that the Sun members might have?

[KWhit]

Spying, I assume. Maybe following a person to see his/her actions.

[BrianD]

Did I miss that somewhere in the rules? Or are guessing?

I was guessing. If the shadow are out converting people, they are probably not sleeping. I suppose it is possible that they spend some time sleeping to make themselves look normal, but if people are watching they should see that the shadow aren't staying in one room sleeping all night.

My main point was that Joe identifying himself as being hidden alone all night would be a good cover in case it comes out later who was observed in rooms last night and who wasn't.

[BrianD]

I suppose I should add that I'm not saying Joe is bad, just pointing out a possible motive for his comment.

[Swaggs]

Spying, I assume. Maybe following a person to see his/her actions.

Would you think conversion or some other type of cleansing?

I am asking because I took a good look through all the roles after Mr. Wednesday pointed out that two of them were particularly dangerous for us. I presume these are the Sorceror and the Artificer.

It also appears that there is one role, the Wizard, that cannot be converted to the Shadow, so I am wondering if the Sun Members can provide enough of a threat at night to prevent him from role revealing? If so, he could perhaps create the closest semblance of a COT that we will have this game.

[Swaggs]

Also, I know my role, the role of the person I used the scroll on last night, Joe's role (presumably from his description), and also the role/alignment of ITC (who was cleansed/revealed last night), so I feel like I will have a pretty decent odds to hit either a Sun/Shadow or one of the two Shadow-friendly roles (Sorceror or Artificer) today.

[ntndeacon]

I slept in the ritual room. If we can take anything good from the conversion last night..(and it isn't much) but they do have to start agreeing with each other. So hopefully they don't manage to do that tonight.

[SnDvls]

I think I can reveal my role and not do any harm to the cultist and not bring any help to the shadow either if you think it will help narrow down your list Swaggs

[DaddyTorgo]

Also, I know my role, the role of the person I used the scroll on last night, Joe's role (presumably from his description), and also the role/alignment of ITC (who was cleansed/revealed last night), so I feel like I will have a pretty decent odds to hit either a Sun/Shadow or one of the two Shadow-friendly roles (Sorceror or Artificer) today.

you going to be around later...closer to deadline?

[Swaggs]

you going to be around later...closer to deadline?

No... I will be leaving to work just before 2:00 PM EST.

[Swaggs]

I think I can reveal my role and not do any harm to the cultist and not bring any help to the shadow either if you think it will help narrow down your list Swaggs

Did you learn anything valuable last night?

[SnDvls]

Did you learn anything valuable last night?

Nothing that absolutly clears or damns another

[DaddyTorgo]

No... I will be leaving to work just before 2:00 PM EST.

shame. i'd like to hear more. as i was stating, i was working on narrowing down my list of choices too, and any type of input of information, or even a veto of my vote based on what you know would be helpful.

for the first time in my ww-ving career i have moved to taking notes on things to help keep things straight.

aaah my evolution as a WWver

[DaddyTorgo]

I think I can reveal my role and not do any harm to the cultist and not bring any help to the shadow either if you think it will help narrow down your list Swaggs

i don't think it would necessarily narrow anything down to reveal your role SnDvls...unless you were the Warlock or someone else who performed an action to show that they're not shadow.

[Swaggs]

Nothing that absolutly clears or damns another

Unless you are the Wizard or think your role is fairly non-threatening, I would probably hold tight.

[Swaggs]

Well, since I have limited time anyway and DT seems to have something, will you reveal a bit if I do?

[DaddyTorgo]

perhaps another time Sr. Swaggs. when there is hopefully even more data to synthesize

[Mr. Wednesday]

It also appears that there is one role, the Wizard, that cannot be converted to the Shadow
The way I read it, that was not inherent to the role itself, only to the amulet in his possession. If someone were to identify him, that amulet could be stolen.

[DaddyTorgo]

lol...and swaggus and i on the same page. +1 for Swaggs

i don't have anything beyond what i stated above really...that i am down to about a 1/5 chance of hitting shadow in my mind, or a 3/14 chance at best now if i were to not aim at swaggs i'd assume.

i would advise sndvls not to reveal unless he were sure it would do no harm, he's smart enough to figure out which roles those would be

[Swaggs]

The way I read it, that was not inherent to the role itself, only to the amulet in his possession. If someone were to identify him, that amulet could be stolen.

Possibly so.

[SnDvls]

Unless you are the Wizard or think your role is fairly non-threatening, I would probably hold tight.



i would advise sndvls not to reveal unless he were sure it would do no harm, he's smart enough to figure out which roles those would be

ok I'll hold onto my info for now although I think if I let it out it won't do us harm.

[Swaggs]

I've been bouncing this around and I am going to go ahead and put it out there:

I used the scroll of indentity on hoops last night. He is not a member of the Sun faction and his role is not one of the two that are "Shadow-friendly." Since I can reveal his role if I am cleansed, I'll hold onto that for him, for now.

Do we know or presume that the Warlock was the person that put hoops to sleep last night? If so, he could gain a bit of trust, as we would learn that he was performing a night action, rather than a conversion last night.

[Chief Rum]

After thinking about it a while, I also have a big problem with Chief's plan of trying to setup a bunch of villagers to cleanse to set up a circle of trust.

At first glance, that sounds like a good plan as its the only surefire way to get trust.. but in more thought, its somewhat similar to being in a normal WW game and saying lets kill all of the Villagers so we know they can trust them, then it will be easy to pick off the wolves.

The shadow players here need a majority of the UNCLEANSED players to win. so if we follow through with CHief's plan and purposely cleanse 4-5 of our fellow cultist volunteers to set up a Circle of trust, he's right we'll have a good 5 people we can trust. We also will watch the shadow in that time likely convert another 3-4 players. Meaning out of 18 original players, there will be 5 cleansed players, 5-6 shadow players and 6-7 cultist left uncleansed. Basically putting us into end game and having to be perfect the rest of the way on who we cleanse.

Between yesterday's attempts at trying to get people to talk about their mundane(non-magical) roles, and today trying to setup a cleansing of volunteering cultists, thats two pretty huge ideas that Chief has thrown out that would be very benefitial to the shadow and very harmful for us. I'm a bit concerned about this.

I wanted to get this thought of mine out there before Chief left for the day, as its only fair to let him have time to respond.

4-5? Good Heavens, Alan, you took my little plan and blew it up big time. If you look back at my post, at no time did I suggest a large number of people be handled in this way. I suggested one. An active player, preferably with analysis skills, and a low priority role.

This would be the start of a decent COT, and someone we could trust if information comes their way, or if they come upon an item of great use to us. But particularly so we know they aren't trying to lead us astray with their analysis.

I also said we should only do it if we have no other real choice. If it's like a Day One vote, where we don't have anough information to definitively go afetr someone, then it might make sense as an alternative move to maximize the value of what would otherwise be almost another random vote. We got somewhat lucky with ITC yesterday. We can't expect that luck to continue.

If we have some solid candidates for Shadow members, that would always be the first choice, and I'm not sure I would advocate doing this more than twice at most. Heck, I don't know we even have enough of thosetypes ofplayers in low priority roles to even get two.

[Lathum]

I've been kicking it around a bit and I have decided to reveal I am the warlock who put hoops to sleep last night.

I hinted yesterday I had a sleeping potion, I was just trying to get peoples opinions without tipping my hand to much.

Ordinaraly I would have revealed later but I have to leavi in a couple of hours and will be gone past the deadline.

[Chief Rum]

I slept in the kitchen and while nothing of interest happened there I can tell you that I know that one of the potentially best roles for the good guys is not in the game.


The chef?

Chef-- He doesn't have any abilities to help the cultists find the Shadow and the Sun, but, boy, cam he whip up a mean chicken gumbo! If he is cleansed, the fat cultists will sob like infants.

[Swaggs]

Chief, did you learn anything last night?

[Chief Rum]

I think I can reveal my role and not do any harm to the cultist and not bring any help to the shadow either if you think it will help narrow down your list Swaggs

Appreciate the offer, SnDvls, but realize that revealing non-critical roles has an unintended side effect--it narrows the pool of players for Shadow to consider as having key roles.

I really would advocate (to all cultists) not being too quick to reveal roles, and I see we already have some today, unfortunately.

Remember, we're not the only ones searching for an Artificer or Sorcerer here.

[Chief Rum]

Chief, did you learn anything last night?

Nope. I slept in and searched the kitchen for magic items. Nothing in there, but big wooden spoons. I wasn't told anyone was with me in the room, so I can't confirm if Barkeep was in there with me. Other than that, I slept like a baby.

[DaddyTorgo]

not to be a negative nancy, but check out the order of night actions

Order of Actions:

Lynch by 7:30/8:00 PM EST
Night actions must be in by midnight EST
Remember each player should send in a sleep location each night!
Dose
Magical Night Actions
Shadow Corruption
Search
Steal
Morning Count

so you could theoretically perform a magical night action and then be converted. so our attempts to build trust for people today based on what they did last night are worthless

[Alan T]

not to be a negative nancy, but check out the order of night actions

Order of Actions:

Lynch by 7:30/8:00 PM EST
Night actions must be in by midnight EST
Remember each player should send in a sleep location each night!
Dose
Magical Night Actions
Shadow Corruption
Search
Steal
Morning Count

so you could theoretically perform a magical night action and then be converted. so our attempts to build trust for people today based on what they did last night are worthless

I've only said this two times now.

[DaddyTorgo]

I've only said this two times now.

probably both while i was half-asleep and didn't notice.

so yeah...:o :mad: :(

[DaddyTorgo]

lunchtime. bbiab

[SnDvls]

Appreciate the offer, SnDvls, but realize that revealing non-critical roles has an unintended side effect--it narrows the pool of players for Shadow to consider as having key roles.

I really would advocate (to all cultists) not being too quick to reveal roles, and I see we already have some today, unfortunately.

Remember, we're not the only ones searching for an Artificer or Sorcerer here.

no offense but the offer was to Swaggs not you ;)

[Swaggs]

not to be a negative nancy, but check out the order of night actions

Order of Actions:

Lynch by 7:30/8:00 PM EST
Night actions must be in by midnight EST
Remember each player should send in a sleep location each night!
Dose
Magical Night Actions
Shadow Corruption
Search
Steal
Morning Count

so you could theoretically perform a magical night action and then be converted. so our attempts to build trust for people today based on what they did last night are worthless

Agreed and it will be this way the entire game.

My decision is coming down to roles and seeing if I can interpret anything from how people describe night actions. Knowing that people were not out trying to convert us is informative.

I feel pretty good about myself, Lathum, hoops, Joe, and ITC right now, as far as us not being Sun members and/or attempting a conversion last night.

Chief is a little suspicious to me, as he cannot prove what he did last night (through no fault of his own).

[Alan T]

probably both while i was half-asleep and didn't notice.

so yeah...:o :mad: :(

Its ok, most people selectivly ignore most of my posts :)


My biggest problem today is trying to figure out a strategy to develop trust in others. This entire game feels like its on quicksand and I every step in any direction ends up causing you to lose ground.

It almost feels like its going to be 7-8 days of luck more than most games. I know so far I've done nothing but shoot down everyone else's ideas without providing any plans of my own which is unlike me.. The problem is I haven't figured out a good plan yet to develop trust.

We can't use the vote count since the shadow players don't know each other.
If we reveal all of our roles we leave our key roles helpless.
If we purposely kill off people to form a CoT we just help the shadow reach their goal faster.

It feels alot like it will require some of our key roles to have a break through on a night scan that helps us pick off people as we go. Even then, when someone reveals such a break through, it won't tell us things from voting patterns as it will likely be a unanimous vote and anyone who gained trust couldnt be trusted the next day anyhows.

[Swaggs]

Alan, do you have anything useful from last night?

[Alan T]

Agreed and it will be this way the entire game.

My decision is coming down to roles and seeing if I can interpret anything from how people describe night actions. Knowing that people were not out trying to convert us is informative.

I feel pretty good about myself, Lathum, hoops, Joe, and ITC right now, as far as us not being Sun members and/or attempting a conversion last night.

Chief is a little suspicious to me, as he cannot prove what he did last night (through no fault of his own).

Swaggs if it helps any, my entire night was completely unproductive and I got nothing acomplished at all last night. All I did last night was sleep.

[Alan T]

Alan, do you have anything useful from last night?

I read your mind, and answered your question before I read the question :)

[Swaggs]

Also, recall that we (presumably) have the Signifier, who can tell us if a person is telling the truth or not. We need to get talking a little bit, so that he has a chance to make a good choice today. Recall that his action is during the day, so he can help us immediately, if he finds something out.

If we all say something, to the effect of, what we did last night (without giving too much away), we have potentially have an additional tool to help us.

I will go first: I did not attempt a Shadow Corruption last night.

[Mr. Wednesday]

It feels alot like it will require some of our key roles to have a break through on a night scan that helps us pick off people as we go.
Not much different from the average game, there, is it? :)

The Shadow has an advantage of sorts in not knowing one another, but it's also a disadvantage of sorts in inhibiting their cooperation and teamwork; on top of that, the usual gain in voting power due to thinning of the villager ranks is gone, although they will be slowly gaining power due to conversions.

Even though the Shadow don't know one another to begin with, and are unlikely to reveal under threat of cleansing, there's still potential ability to move in reaction to a vote on a member, if that member chooses to reveal (depending, of course, on the mechanism of communication... since it's a "hive mind", I'm assuming it's not too limited).

[Swaggs]

Anyone else want to give the Signifier something to work with?

I need to vote real soon and then leave for work for the rest of the cycle.

[SnDvls]

Also, recall that we (presumably) have the Signifier, who can tell us if a person is telling the truth or not. We need to get talking a little bit, so that he has a chance to make a good choice today. Recall that his action is during the day, so he can help us immediately, if he finds something out.

If we all say something, to the effect of, what we did last night (without giving too much away), we have potentially have an additional tool to help us.

I will go first: I did not attempt a Shadow Corruption last night.

It's built into the rules that this type of quote won't work

[Alan T]

Also, recall that we (presumably) have the Signifier, who can tell us if a person is telling the truth or not. We need to get talking a little bit, so that he has a chance to make a good choice today. Recall that his action is during the day, so he can help us immediately, if he finds something out.

If we all say something, to the effect of, what we did last night (without giving too much away), we have potentially have an additional tool to help us.

I will go first: I did not attempt a Shadow Corruption last night.

Just a reminder, the rules state that such a role would be wasted if you use a coerced line such as "I am not bad".

I wouldn't risk it getting wasted on a line such as what you just used, I also think that type of thing is a bit gamey too myself. I think something like what I just said is better to be used as I clearly stated that I did nothing but sleep and did it uncoerced (if that makes sense).

[Mr. Wednesday]

Anyone else want to give the Signifier something to work with?

I need to vote real soon and then leave for work for the rest of the cycle.

Note that this is not intended to allow coerced situations where everyone is forced to say "I am good!" Such situations muddle the truth and the ability will be wasted.

I don't think that's going to work.

[Chief Rum]

Also, recall that we (presumably) have the Signifier, who can tell us if a person is telling the truth or not. We need to get talking a little bit, so that he has a chance to make a good choice today. Recall that his action is during the day, so he can help us immediately, if he finds something out.

If we all say something, to the effect of, what we did last night (without giving too much away), we have potentially have an additional tool to help us.

I will go first: I did not attempt a Shadow Corruption last night.

I think that statement is a variant on what Peregrine said he wouldn't allow to be used in this manner, just so you know.

[SnDvls]

wow we all said the same thing, but differently

[SnDvls]

anyone else want to comment on the rule too?

[Tyrith]

Yeah. Another clueless day for me. We're going to be bad off for information for a while. It seems like there's a fair amount of stuff in place that will allow us to pick up clues, though, and I can't imagine that Peregrine designed a game that just raw screws us. We really need to crack one, though, then we can really start to develop some connections. That's what got us into trouble last game -- without every hitting a confirmed bad guy we couldn't ever start to untangle the webs.

[Swaggs]

How about what action folks took, then?

Along the lines of, "I used an item," or "I performed a search."

I have been asking folks what they did last night or if they learned anything productive--same basic intent, without someone specifically asking others.

[Chief Rum]

All right, I hate voting so early beofre more information is out there, but I don't have a choice. I have ot leave for work. I am going to avoid the ones who have been at least a little bit cleared for today only. It makes more sense to avoid them for now, although I didn't see any clears today I would consider ironproof.

VOTE BRIAND

I haven't played with BrianD in a while, but I know he is a crafty veteran. IMO, he has been too quiet. Could be busy or just getting back into it again, but it seems suspicious to me with little else to go on.

VOTE PUNISHMENT

This is not an indictment on Brian, on whom I feel somewhat lukewarm on at best. It is more in support of the idea we need Punishment to help us win this game and learn voting records.

Good luck, everyone.

[Lathum]

VOTE CHIEFRUM

VOTE PUNISHMENT

I have to vote earlier today. Something just does not sit right with him, some of his suggestions seem to fishy.

[Mr. Wednesday]

I'll get my punishment vote out of the way first. As usual, I'm not going to be in a hurry to cast my person vote.

VOTE PUNISHMENT

[Tyrith]

It seems to me that any kind of coerced statement isn't likely to work.

[Tyrith]

Dola, coerced as in even anything specifically said to be targeted by soothsayer. And the ability seems to be much more effective when used when the target doesn't really know its coming.

I'm with Mr.W, best to get this out of the way now.

VOTE PUNISHMENT

[BrianD]

All right, I hate voting so early beofre more information is out there, but I don't have a choice. I have ot leave for work. I am going to avoid the ones who have been at least a little bit cleared for today only. It makes more sense to avoid them for now, although I didn't see any clears today I would consider ironproof.

VOTE BRIAND

I haven't played with BrianD in a while, but I know he is a crafty veteran. IMO, he has been too quiet. Could be busy or just getting back into it again, but it seems suspicious to me with little else to go on.

VOTE PUNISHMENT

This is not an indictment on Brian, on whom I feel somewhat lukewarm on at best. It is more in support of the idea we need Punishment to help us win this game and learn voting records.

Good luck, everyone.

I'm here and paying attention, I just haven't figured out a useful strategy for this game so I have been mostly observing. Fortunately I will be around all day so I can wait and see what is revealed during the day.

[Swaggs]

I am going to have to vote soon.

I am leaning towards picking Alan T or Chief Rum.

Both are very good, analytical players and, in this game, they can still help us if they are cleansed. Both were vague when asked what they did last night, although Alan was a bit more so. Chief has made some questionable requests.

[Tyrith]

In this game it is almost an encouragement to vote for the vets early. We can let them run their brains with little danger, and I know hoops, for one, has talked about being a vanilla being his favorite role, because he can use his brain without worrying about getting killed and losing a major role for his team. So I, for one, am not going to be gunshy.

[Alan T]

I am going to have to vote soon.

I am leaning towards picking Alan T or Chief Rum.

Both are very good, analytical players and, in this game, they can still help us if they are cleansed. Both were vague when asked what they did last night, although Alan was a bit more so. Chief has made some questionable requests.


I didn't mean to be vague, but I will be less vague for you then.

I didn't realize night orders were due in by midnight, and when I went to put my order in at 6am, I was told by Peregrine that it was too late. Thus, I ended up with no night action last night, I ended up with a default sleeping action of I assume being in the ritual room according to the rules (even though my night pm didn't list the room, it simply said get a PM in time next time).

So yeah, I wasn't the person who converted anyone last night, I also didn't do anything to benefit anyone last night. This also doesn't prove my innocence or give me a step up in any direction as I have stated multiple times with multiple shadow members, it only requires 1 to put a vote in.

So hope thats less vague for you. Anything further I would tell you would have to be made up fabrications.

[Alan T]

Dola, for whomever the Signifier is, feel free to scan any of my last post if you don't believe me. :) Most people who have run games with me in them know I generally put in night actions the following morning after thinking things through for the night. Guess its not an option this game for me.

[ntndeacon]

I am going to have to vote soon.

I am leaning towards picking Alan T or Chief Rum.

Both are very good, analytical players and, in this game, they can still help us if they are cleansed. Both were vague when asked what they did last night, although Alan was a bit more so. Chief has made some questionable requests.

I have a tendency to believe that Alan is not Shadow. I believe he did just as he claims to. So if those are your choices, I think you would be better off with Chief than Alan.

[Mr. Wednesday]

I don't think that Alan is Shadow, but at the same time, I don't think his failure to get an action in is conclusive.

[Alan T]

I don't think that Alan is Shadow, but at the same time, I don't think his failure to get an action in is conclusive.

I just said that.

[Swaggs]

This also doesn't prove my innocence or give me a step up in any direction as I have stated multiple times with multiple shadow members, it only requires 1 to put a vote in.

What gives you that impression?

I was under the impression that the Shadow members did not begin the game in contact with one another, so I presumed they would both be doing something last night?

[Alan T]

What gives you that impression?

I was under the impression that the Shadow members did not begin the game in contact with one another, so I presumed they would both be doing something last night?

The same things I said about hoops earlier stays true for me too.

My believe from reading the rules and what Peregrine has posted is:

If there are two shadow members, and both put in the same name for conversion, its 100%
If there are two shadow members and one puts in a name, and one doesnt put anything in (due to being blocked or in my case inaction), conversion is 100% for the name put in.
If there are two shadow members and each put in different names, then conversion is 50% with the tie going to the "head shadow player"

You can then expand it on to more shadow players such as:

THree shadow members, two put in one name, and one put in the other name its 67% to 33%, with the 67% one winning.

The reason I feel it happens this way is Peregrine posted in the rules somewhere that any conversion attempt of over 50% automatically is successful.

[Mr. Wednesday]

I was under the impression that the Shadow members did not begin the game in contact with one another, so I presumed they would both be doing something last night?

If Alan were Shadow, then the way it would work would be that he neglected to get his action in, but the other Shadow acted and succeeded (with an automatic conversion at 50% or more).

Judging by the rules, I don't think you're necessarily right that they don't begin in contact with one another, either. There's no details about how they can communicate, but it says that "the Shadow players will be able to communicate with all the other Shadow players, through a method I will reveal to them."

[Alan T]

The Shadow

The Shadow starts with one player, and gains a second on Night 0. After that, each night they can try to gain more recruits. As a night action, each Shadow player chooses one player to try to convert, he focuses his shadow energies on him. As more are converted, the power of the shadow being is split among them. The first conversion had a 100% chance to succeed, when there are two players, each has 50%, when three, each has 33%, and so forth. The more the Shadow spirit is divided the harder it is for him to focus his energies for more conversions. Once the votes are sent to the GM I will total them up and start with the person receiving the most votes. Any total Shadow force that's 50% or more means an automatic conversion, IF the target player can be found and is not protected somehow. After that I will go down the list by percentage. It's possible no one will be converted in a given night, but there will never be more than one person converted.





I brought this part up earlier, but to go over it again.. The part that clues me in is the bolded part. Originally I had assumed the chance of conversion goes down the more shadow players there are. But based on this, thats not true. Conversions can still be automatic as long as the shadow players team up appropriately to do so.

What will be important for us to learn is when we finally cleanse a shadow player, to find out what their communication method is, and how much they really can communicate with each other.

[BrianD]

What gives you that impression?

I was under the impression that the Shadow members did not begin the game in contact with one another, so I presumed they would both be doing something last night?

Were they not allowed to communicate anonymously with the option of identifying themselves?

[hoopsguy]

I've been bouncing this around and I am going to go ahead and put it out there:

I used the scroll of indentity on hoops last night. He is not a member of the Sun faction and his role is not one of the two that are "Shadow-friendly." Since I can reveal his role if I am cleansed, I'll hold onto that for him, for now.

Do we know or presume that the Warlock was the person that put hoops to sleep last night? If so, he could gain a bit of trust, as we would learn that he was performing a night action, rather than a conversion last night.

Catching up on reading, but if you know that I'm not Sun/Shadow then you should trust me when I say that it was the Warlock that put me to sleep last night. As far as extending trust to that person, I don't believe they would still have their Warlock power if they were Shadow so I trust that person.

[Mr. Wednesday]

hoops, we know that they were not Shadow at the time they put you to sleep, which means they were not one of the original two, but the conversion would have happened after that, so we don't know about the conversion.

[Swaggs]

Alright, I'm going to go ahead and place a vote.

Vote Chief Rum

Vote Punishment

As mentioned, I feel reasonably safe that I know the roles and/or that they are not members of the Sun faction for the following:
-Me
-Joe
-hoops
-Lathum
-ITC

That gives me somewhere between a 3-7 chance out of 13 to get one of either the three Shadows, one of the two Shadow-friendly roles (assuming they are not already Shadows), or one of the, presumably, two members of the Sun.

[Alan T]

If Alan were Shadow, then the way it would work would be that he neglected to get his action in, but the other Shadow acted and succeeded (with an automatic conversion at 50% or more).

Judging by the rules, I don't think you're necessarily right that they don't begin in contact with one another, either. There's no details about how they can communicate, but it says that "the Shadow players will be able to communicate with all the other Shadow players, through a method I will reveal to them."

hoops, we know that they were not Shadow at the time they put you to sleep, which means they were not one of the original two, but the conversion would have happened after that, so we don't know about the conversion.

My take on this type of thing is mathematical.

Right now there are 3/17 that are bad guys. Of those 3/17, 2/17 were the original shadow players that did not sleep him. So that leaves him only 1/14 chance of being the newly converted shadow player in Hoops's point of view. Whereas for everyone else would be a 2/15 chance of being a shadow player to him. So my caution all along is that he can't trust him, but for today's vote at least, he is less likely a shadow player than other choices.

We also know Lathum has claimed he was the one who slept Hoops, so we don't really have to beat around the bush for who we are talking about here. In my mind though, Lathum doesn't make a good vote today as he is only 1/14th chance of being bad vs other players. Tommorrow and every day after this however, it gets harder to extend that trust due to actions from days prior.

[DaddyTorgo]

I don't believe alan or chief are likely shadow-infested.

[Alan T]

dola, my last post had multiple quotes, my reply was only to the last of the quotes. Im not sure where the other came from!

[Swaggs]

I will, hopefully, be back around 8:00 PM EST.

[Alan T]

I don't believe alan or chief are likely shadow-infested.

I would really love to hear how 3 different people have now come out and said they feel that I'm not of the shadow based only on what i Have said.

It feels too much like a "I'll vouch for a good guy to buy trust" type play. Maybe I'm just lucky and alot of people used items or roles to see my boring night, but there sure are alot of people extending me way too much trust for providing nothing more than just words that I have provided no truth or validity to.

[DaddyTorgo]

Alright, I'm going to go ahead and place a vote.

Vote Chief Rum

Vote Punishment

As mentioned, I feel reasonably safe that I know the roles and/or that they are not members of the Sun faction for the following:
-Me
-Joe
-hoops
-Lathum
-ITC

That gives me somewhere between a 3-7 chance out of 13 to get one of either the three Shadows, one of the two Shadow-friendly roles (assuming they are not already Shadows), or one of the, presumably, two members of the Sun.

swaggs...CR is not a good vote on my list.

[hoopsguy]

I've been kicking it around a bit and I have decided to reveal I am the warlock who put hoops to sleep last night.

I hinted yesterday I had a sleeping potion, I was just trying to get peoples opinions without tipping my hand to much.

Ordinaraly I would have revealed later but I have to leavi in a couple of hours and will be gone past the deadline.

I had moved pretty far down this path of thought after reading the PM but didn't want to suggest it publicly and potentially put a target on you.

[DaddyTorgo]

I would really love to hear how 3 different people have now come out and said they feel that I'm not of the shadow based only on what i Have said.

It feels too much like a "I'll vouch for a good guy to buy trust" type play. Maybe I'm just lucky and alot of people used items or roles to see my boring night, but there sure are alot of people extending me way too much trust for providing nothing more than just words that I have provided no truth or validity to.


i said "i don't believe." i have no hard evidence about what you were doing last night, or whether you are shadow.

[BrianD]

By my vote count, I've got 1 vote and Chief Rum has 2.

I don't know what to think about Chief Rum, but I'm going to throw out another random vote and see what happens. I'll be on all day so I can be persuaded toward a better option if there is one. For now...

Vote KWhit

[DaddyTorgo]

I would really love to hear how 3 different people have now come out and said they feel that I'm not of the shadow based only on what i Have said.

It feels too much like a "I'll vouch for a good guy to buy trust" type play. Maybe I'm just lucky and alot of people used items or roles to see my boring night, but there sure are alot of people extending me way too much trust for providing nothing more than just words that I have provided no truth or validity to.

3 different people? must have missed the other 2...regardless, their opinions don't inform my own. the only thing that informs my own is my own knowledge.

[Mr. Wednesday]

I would really love to hear how 3 different people have now come out and said they feel that I'm not of the shadow based only on what i Have said.

It feels too much like a "I'll vouch for a good guy to buy trust" type play.

Trouble is, unlike a conventional game, we would expect that the Shadow don't know who one another are (possible exception of the conversion).

[Alan T]

By my vote count, I've got 1 vote and Chief Rum has 2.

I don't know what to think about Chief Rum, but I'm going to throw out another random vote and see what happens. I'll be on all day so I can be persuaded toward a better option if there is one. For now...

Vote KWhit


You missed a vote from early this morning.

(2) Chief Rum - Lathum (360), Swaggs (379)
(1) Schmidty - Mustang (274)
(1) BrianD - Chief Rum (359)
(1) Kwhit - BrianD (388)


(6) Punishment - Mustang, Chief Rum, Lathum, Mr. Wednesday, Tyrith, Swaggs

[BrianD]

You missed a vote from early this morning.

(2) Chief Rum - Lathum (360), Swaggs (379)
(1) Schmidty - Mustang (274)
(1) BrianD - Chief Rum (359)
(1) Kwhit - BrianD (388)


(6) Punishment - Mustang, Chief Rum, Lathum, Mr. Wednesday, Tyrith, Swaggs

You are right, I didn't look back that far to get my count.

[KWhit]

Trouble is, unlike a conventional game, we would expect that the Shadow don't know who one another are (possible exception of the conversion).

That's what is making this so tough. We can't even take vote history into account because they don't know each other.

I think the only way we can find a shadow is to get lucky with one of our night actions.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Or lucky with one of our cleansings, but as I previously noted, in that respect, it's little different from a conventional game.

[Alan T]

I'm trying to figure out who to vote for based off of my feelings of other people's responses of their night actions. Since I gained no information on anything last night, I can't really add much to my list other than perception. So far I'm not going to vote for the following today:

Swaggs, Lathum, Hoopsguy, Joe


The people I feel the worst about right now are Chief and DaddyTorgo, and am leaning at looking to one of them for a vote, but waiting to see what else comes to the table today.

[DaddyTorgo]

I'm trying to figure out who to vote for based off of my feelings of other people's responses of their night actions. Since I gained no information on anything last night, I can't really add much to my list other than perception. So far I'm not going to vote for the following today:

Swaggs, Lathum, Hoopsguy, Joe


The people I feel the worst about right now are Chief and DaddyTorgo, and am leaning at looking to one of them for a vote, but waiting to see what else comes to the table today.

well that's ironic.

can i ask you to wait till tomorrow on those votes?

[path12]

Was the board down for anyone else today? This is my first chance to get in.

I spent the night in the sitting room also and got no report of any activity.

[path12]

I would really love to hear how 3 different people have now come out and said they feel that I'm not of the shadow based only on what i Have said.

It feels too much like a "I'll vouch for a good guy to buy trust" type play. Maybe I'm just lucky and alot of people used items or roles to see my boring night, but there sure are alot of people extending me way too much trust for providing nothing more than just words that I have provided no truth or validity to.

Well, I don't trust you if that makes you feel better. Although you have tended to put in night actions early in the morning in games I've run, I also know you to be a player who is very up on the rules and knows when the deadlines are.

So for now:

VOTE ALAN T
VOTE PUNISHMENT

Subject to change, blah blah etc.....

[path12]

Dola, part of that vote is about the way you jumped on Chief for his idea about someone with a role of lesser importance volunteering for cleansing. He never said it was something that needed to be done every night, stressed that it wasn't meant to pressure anyone to reveal, and frankly is a better idea then shooting in the dark at someone who might have an important role that they need to keep quiet. Instead, it seemed to me that you automatically turned it into doing that repeatedly to shoot the idea down.

[DaddyTorgo]

waaaaaaaaah...peregrine left without answering the question i PMed to him

[Barkeep49]

Alan's purposeful misconstruing of Chief's plan seems like the sort of evil undermining he would do. Therfore I'm gonna go ahead and cast my vote in his direction. After this plan period, I might, or might not, be available again later in the day, but it's a baseball game day and that makes my time limited under this time schedule.

Vote Alan T
Punishment

[DaddyTorgo]

have fun at baseball barkeep.

[Barkeep49]

have fun at baseball barkeep.
I normally do. Thanks for the good wishes.

[ntndeacon]

Well, I will go ahead and cast my vote. I don't have many strong views yetSo I might change this later. but for now.
Vote Kwhit
Vote Punishment

[Joe]

can someone post a new vote tally

[DaddyTorgo]

leaving work in a minute. same type of schedule as last night. not really any great idea of who to vote for yet, although i know who i won't be voting for, and i have that list with me.

adios

[Alan T]

Just got back in, here is current vote talley:

(2) Chief Rum - Lathum (360), Swaggs (379)
(1) Schmidty - Mustang (274)
(1) BrianD - Chief Rum (359)
(2) Kwhit - BrianD (388), Ntndeacon (404)
(2) Alan - Path (398), Barkeep (401)

(9) Punishment - Mustang, Chief Rum, Lathum, Mr. Wednesday, Tyrith, Swaggs, Path, Barkeep, Ntndeacon


I also have two new targets in path and Barkeep now for coming to the defense of someone whom I think is not on our team (Chief) by lying about my encouraging people to not follow Chief's poor plan this morning. Chief has done nothing but throw out bad plays for us and when I called him out on it, he backpedals faster than I've ever seen.

Vote Chief Rum

Very very suspicious of Barkeep and Path to rally to Chief's aide like this. Makes me wonder if they have better communication than we suspected. I also am leaning towards making sure one of this group can't do us any harm tonight either, just not sure which yet.

[KWhit]

Damn. How did I get near the vote lead? As a purely self preservation vote, I'll:

Vote Chief Rum


Vote Punishment

[KWhit]

And FYI, I may not make it back before 7:30, so I'll just have to make a quick statement on my own behalf.

I find it interesting that the 2 guys who voted for me didn't give a reason at all. What's up with that? Come on, guys. If you're going to kill me (errr... cleanse me) at least have a reason.

If anybody cares, last night I searched the ritual room, found an object, then slept in the ritual room.

[path12]

Very very suspicious of Barkeep and Path to rally to Chief's aide like this. Makes me wonder if they have better communication than we suspected. I also am leaning towards making sure one of this group can't do us any harm tonight either, just not sure which yet.

Whatever. You always attack anyone who votes you. I welcome any of our fellow cultists to investigate me, you will find no shadow here.

[Tyrith]

Runaway prevention, and Alan's little misstep is slightly suspicious. Either Rum or Alan is fine by me, though.

VOTE ALAN T

[Alan T]

3 different people? must have missed the other 2...regardless, their opinions don't inform my own. the only thing that informs my own is my own knowledge.

Whatever. You always attack anyone who votes you. I welcome any of our fellow cultists to investigate me, you will find no shadow here.

Well when you use flimsy reasoning like you are doing, of course I will attack back.

Makes perfect sense, instead of voting for someone who wanted to encourage everyone to tell if they had Mundane roles (the perfect targets for the shadows), instead of voting for someone who wanted to lynch good guy volunteers instead of trying to hunt out a shadow, you think its wise to vote the person who brought up what a bad idea those moves would be.

Makes perfect sense to me!

[SnDvls]

VOTE PUNISHMENT

my person vote is still pending.

[Alan T]

Runaway prevention, and Alan's little misstep is slightly suspicious. Either Rum or Alan is fine by me, though.

VOTE ALAN T

Yep, always makes sense voting for the person who says point blankly what he did last night in a way thats easily verifiable by the Signifier validating at the least he couldnt have done the conversion last night.

[Mustang]

Seems to be alot of 'I know something but, I'm not going to tell anyone' going on.

[path12]

Well when you use flimsy reasoning like you are doing, of course I will attack back.

Makes perfect sense, instead of voting for someone who wanted to encourage everyone to tell if they had Mundane roles (the perfect targets for the shadows), instead of voting for someone who wanted to lynch good guy volunteers instead of trying to hunt out a shadow, you think its wise to vote the person who brought up what a bad idea those moves would be.

The flimsy reasoning is on your side this time, my friend, and isn't like you.

As I understood Chief's suggestion, he suggested that one of us with one of the magical roles of lesser importance volunteer to be cleansed so that we did not end up voting someone with a crucial role and forcing them to a) reveal or b) lose the benefit of their role.

It was a VOLUNTEER that he asked for. This makes eminent sense for today only -- we have various and sundry of our fellow cultists who are working behind the scenes at night to help find the shadows. It is to our total benefit to allow those people to work without either suspicion coming upon them or without forcing them to acknowledge their importance to point out to the shadows.

Instead you seemed to turn that into an everyday occurance and shot it down, like you have virtually any other idea that has been floated so far this game.......as well as neglecting to send in a night action that would supposedly help us also. You are the one who strikes me as not working for the benefit of good right now, not that suggestion by Chief.

[path12]

Yep, always makes sense voting for the person who says point blankly what he did last night in a way thats easily verifiable by the Signifier validating at the least he couldnt have done the conversion last night.

Doesn't mean you couldn't have been converted though, does it?

[Alan T]

The flimsy reasoning is on your side this time, my friend, and isn't like you.

As I understood Chief's suggestion, he suggested that one of us with one of the magical roles of lesser importance volunteer to be cleansed so that we did not end up voting someone with a crucial role and forcing them to a) reveal or b) lose the benefit of their role.

It was a VOLUNTEER that he asked for. This makes eminent sense for today only -- we have various and sundry of our fellow cultists who are working behind the scenes at night to help find the shadows. It is to our total benefit to allow those people to work without either suspicion coming upon them or without forcing them to acknowledge their importance to point out to the shadows.

Instead you seemed to turn that into an everyday occurance and shot it down, like you have virtually any other idea that has been floated so far this game.......as well as neglecting to send in a night action that would supposedly help us also. You are the one who strikes me as not working for the benefit of good right now, not that suggestion by Chief.

Either way its still a bad idea to ask for a volunteer good guy to vote for to remove from the game instead of possibly getting a bad guy. We have a system here where if we end up guessing wrong on someone who reveals an important role that we can give them Mercy instead of punishment, and that not only doesnt lynch them but it PROTECTS them from conversion at night as well for that night. That along with the idea of trying to line up targets for the shadows to get by knowing which members have mundane abilities (the perfect targets) , its just way too many harmful ideas that he has floated out there.

If you fail to understand why either of these ideas are bad ideas, then I can't help you out here, and you're better off being cleansed next anyways to make sure we know what side you are really on.

Doesn't mean you couldn't have been converted though, does it?

Sure, Ive said all day that no one should assume that Im not converted or even one of the original two based on what I did or didnt do last night. However your jumping to protect faulty reasoning and someone who right now smells the most like a wolf, just is setting off all kinds of alarms.

[Barkeep49]

The flimsy reasoning is on your side this time, my friend, and isn't like you.

As I understood Chief's suggestion, he suggested that one of us with one of the magical roles of lesser importance volunteer to be cleansed so that we did not end up voting someone with a crucial role and forcing them to a) reveal or b) lose the benefit of their role.

It was a VOLUNTEER that he asked for. This makes eminent sense for today only -- we have various and sundry of our fellow cultists who are working behind the scenes at night to help find the shadows. It is to our total benefit to allow those people to work without either suspicion coming upon them or without forcing them to acknowledge their importance to point out to the shadows.

Instead you seemed to turn that into an everyday occurance and shot it down, like you have virtually any other idea that has been floated so far this game.......as well as neglecting to send in a night action that would supposedly help us also. You are the one who strikes me as not working for the benefit of good right now, not that suggestion by Chief.
Alan, this sums up my feelings for agreeing with Chief over you. I think Chief's plan is a good one. You should know my strategy is to form a COT. I think the role reveals helps with this as does his plan. Plans which help us gain a COT are plans I support since they're plans that win.

Out until after deadline.

[Mr. Wednesday]

While I don't have a general problem with the Chief Rum vote (after all, I voted for him yesterday), I remain a little concerned about his likely non-presence near the deadline.

[Barkeep49]

Alan: CR never asked for a good guy with an important role, rather a good guy with an unimportant role to fufill the role. I can't believe you continue to misrepresent what was proposed. I would recommend finding CR's original post and rereading it, rather than just shooting off incorrect facts from your hip.

Out for real now.

[Alan T]

If the punishment vote ends in Mercy, another spell is placed on the player, the Circle of Sleep. This magical cirle will prevent them from taking any night actions that night (including Shadow attempts,) or being targeted by any night actions other than Search, Steal, or Dose.



For anyone having as difficult time as Path in understanding why Chief's idea is bad, here it is again for you. We absolutely have to try for a shadow player every day. Voting for people we assume are good only does three things 1) Confirm they are good (Good for us), 2) Remove their magical role (Bad for us), 3) Bring the shadow one step closer to reaching their goal for victory.

I've pushed the entire game that punishment should be our default vote, however you all are voting punishment waaaaay too early. I've said all along, we should be picking 1-2 people each day whom we think are the most likely shadow players at that point and putting pressure on them with the vote as the threat to speak up more, to find out what they do bring to the table and see if they make any misteps or mistakes. Worst case scenerio, they end up being an important role, we choose to give them mercy, and they are protected from conversion that night, and our other roles who can protect will have to decide when or where to use their role to try to protect them through the remainder of the game.

Instead everyone is just throwing out names for the most part (not even talking about just the votes for me), just throwing out punishment without using it as a tool to try to make an educated decision, and pretty much trying to help the shadow win.

[path12]

We have a system here where if we end up guessing wrong on someone who reveals an important role that we can give them Mercy instead of punishment, and that not only doesnt lynch them but it PROTECTS them from conversion at night as well for that night.

We do, eh? You've been arguing against mercy from the very beginning and you see how the votes stand. Don't give me that mercy, you're on record for voting punishment unless someone reveals.


Sure, Ive said all day that no one should assume that Im not converted or even one of the original two based on what I did or didnt do last night. However your jumping to protect faulty reasoning and someone who right now smells the most like a wolf, just is setting off all kinds of alarms.

And you keep attacking anyone who votes for you. I've already welcomed anyone on the side of good to investigate me.

[Alan T]

Alan: CR never asked for a good guy with an important role, rather a good guy with an unimportant role to fufill the role. I can't believe you continue to misrepresent what was proposed. I would recommend finding CR's original post and rereading it, rather than just shooting off incorrect facts from your hip.

Out for real now.

What are you talking about? You made no sense yesterday and less sense today. Who cares about important or unimportant role? Who is even arguing that? I say purposely voting a good guy off, important or unimportant role is just dumb and harmful. Its like in any other WW game asking someone to say they are good and volunteer to die. Who would ever try to push such a silly idea?

Stop trying to bring up points that arent even in discussion to try to make people think Im arguing something I'm not. Point blank its simple.. If you knowingly vote for a good guy, then you're just helping the shadow win. I can't believe you are even arguing this.

[path12]

Instead everyone is just throwing out names for the most part (not even talking about just the votes for me), just throwing out punishment without using it as a tool to try to make an educated decision, and pretty much trying to help the shadow win.

I haven't just thrown out your name, I've been quite clear in my reasoning for voting you, and I see more people agreeing with what I'm saying than what you are. Does that mean they are all bad, also?

[Alan T]

We do, eh? You've been arguing against mercy from the very beginning and you see how the votes stand. Don't give me that mercy, you're on record for voting punishment unless someone reveals.



And you keep attacking anyone who votes for you. I've already welcomed anyone on the side of good to investigate me.

Ok Sherlock, go and see how I handled the vote yesterday with Imthecrew.

Before you start making up stuff about me, maybe have your facts in order.

[Alan T]

I haven't just thrown out your name, I've been quite clear in my reasoning for voting you, and I see more people agreeing with what I'm saying than what you are. Does that mean they are all bad, also?

Im having a real hard time believing someone would argue what you are arguing being good. I've always felt you are a pretty smart player, so the stance you are taking about how we should handle this strategy is just dumbfounding me. I can't possibly think you are anything but bad right now. I definitly don't think you are dumb which is the alternative.

[Schmidty]

Just woke up.

[BrianD]

I'm sad to see the path12/Alan T fight today. I'm also sad to see that the KWhit vote didn't get more attention. We can probably look back over the conversations today to see if there are any clues, but I'll share what I know.

KWhit was converted to Shadow last night. I used a Potion of Alertness and stayed in the ritual room last night. I saw a shadow member - who I could not identify - cast a spell on KWhit. I assume this has to be a conversion spell. I have already voted for him, but I will now...

Vote Punishment

[path12]

It appears that mercy won't tell us much about who is affected by the shadow, and definitly won't help us release people from that corruption. As always, our most powerful tool for fighting the evil is the punishment. Those that are afraid to inflict that punishment are the doorways for the shadow to enter.

The only time mercy should be shown is in the case of a person's neck being on the line and giving indisputible last minute evidence that they are not affected by the shadow.

Vote Swaggs

Voting for anyone with the intent of giving them mercy anyhows without hearing more from them seems redundant and counter-productive.

When we have someone on the block, they by all means should give us a reason to not punish them, and at that time we can choose to give them mercy instead of punishment.


If you vote for mercy always, then you never will rid yourself of the shadow. If you vote punishment, you might end up stripping someone useful of their power, but also could remove the shadow influence from them.

Worst case is you target someone who is useful, they give you enough of a convincing of that and you can then give them mercy and buy more time to look at them a bit more in depth before stripping them of their powers. It is my belief that with the tools we have available, its even more benefitial for us than normal to go heavy at the punishment.

If you feel no one will ever be able to convince you they are good or bad, and thus will always vote mercy, you're not helping us at all.

Well I guess the scenerio I bring up is:

What if the person who is up for punishment/mercy ends up coming out and saying "I'm the Medium, or I'm the Spiritualist" or something along those lines. It appears that all of the magical roles are from the list there, and some of them might be handier than others. I think if someone came out saying they were a role that might be pretty useful in our effort to clense people of the shadow, I might reconsider being merciful.

If someone chooses to not defend themselves, or end up with some expendable role, I still say I likely will choose to punish. I just know my mind hasn't been made up until people have had their chance to defend themselves.

So, what here says that you would be willing to vote mercy without a reveal??

[Mr. Wednesday]

Brian's reveal seems pretty conclusive.

VOTE KWHIT

[Schmidty]

Just read my PMs:

KWHIT IS 100% SHADOW!!!!!

I used my ability to track shadow or sun back to it's source, and that source was KWhit. My ability only gives me a chance to find this information out each night, and I can't target anyone in particular, just the shadow or sun.

I know that I am kind of risking things by revealing this, but we have a 100% chance to get a bad guy, and I want us to take full advantage!!!

Vote KWhit

Vote Punishment

[path12]

UNVOTE ALAN T
VOTE KWHIT

Punishment vote remains as is. Good job, Schmidty & Brian!

[Mustang]

I understand the desire to cleanse a volunteer but, all that does is guarantee 99% that someone good is cleansed (I can't see a Shadow volunteering unless there were like 6-7 volunteers) and there will be zero percent chance of even remotely cleansing a shadow.

[SnDvls]

Works for me Brian

vote KWHIT

[Mr. Wednesday]

The point, as put forward, was to get someone whose analysis is good in a known trusted position. The opportunity cost of doing so is debateable.

[Mustang]

Unvote Schmidty

Vote KWhit


I'd recommend seeing if they are telling the truth. Would be a very good ploy by the original Shadow to convert someone, say they found out they were Shadow the next day and then sit back with 100% trust by everyone. If KWhit was converted last night, he would have no knowledge of anything so.. easy way to gain trust IMO.

[Mustang]

The point, as put forward, was to get someone whose analysis is good in a known trusted position. The opportunity cost of doing so is debateable.

I understand, I just don't fully agree with it.

[Joe]

I was going to vote elsewhere, but with that..

vote kwhit and punishment

[hoopsguy]

The flimsy reasoning is on your side this time, my friend, and isn't like you.

As I understood Chief's suggestion, he suggested that one of us with one of the magical roles of lesser importance volunteer to be cleansed so that we did not end up voting someone with a crucial role and forcing them to a) reveal or b) lose the benefit of their role.

It was a VOLUNTEER that he asked for. This makes eminent sense for today only -- we have various and sundry of our fellow cultists who are working behind the scenes at night to help find the shadows. It is to our total benefit to allow those people to work without either suspicion coming upon them or without forcing them to acknowledge their importance to point out to the shadows.

Instead you seemed to turn that into an everyday occurance and shot it down, like you have virtually any other idea that has been floated so far this game.......as well as neglecting to send in a night action that would supposedly help us also. You are the one who strikes me as not working for the benefit of good right now, not that suggestion by Chief.

There are two problems with this idea:
1. You shrink the number of people who may have an important role by coming out and saying your role is good but trivial
2. You ensure that we do not get a shadow if you are being truthful

Those are the problems I've seen with the idea from the outset. Just wish I had a little more time today to participate in the discussion.

[Alan T]

So, what here says that you would be willing to vote mercy without a reveal??

Why would I want to vote mercy without some reason? I have said many times that people need to put some consideration into their mercy/punishment vote and not just throw them out blindly. I've repeated this many times. THanks for making my point for me.

Unvote Chief
Vote Kwhit

[Alan T]

Unvote Schmidty

Vote KWhit


I'd recommend seeing if they are telling the truth. Would be a very good ploy by the original Shadow to convert someone, say they found out they were Shadow the next day and then sit back with 100% trust by everyone. If KWhit was converted last night, he would have no knowledge of anything so.. easy way to gain trust IMO.

The only thing though is Schmidty pretty much revealed what his role was by his reveal. If we believe that the shadows don't have magical roles (Since converted players lose their roles when converted), it would be a stretch to accuse Schmidty of this.

[DaddyTorgo]

home

[DaddyTorgo]

wow! stunner of a revelation there. This bodes VERY well for the good guys. We could very well have this wrapped up quickly guys!

VOTE KWHIT

VOTE PUNISHMENT

[hoopsguy]

Caught up on reading now. And will likely be out until well after deadline. Nice to have an easy choice, backed by two people.

VOTE KWHIT/PUNISHMENT

[DaddyTorgo]

really hope we get one. That would be great. Way to go brian+schmidty

[Mustang]

The only thing though is Schmidty pretty much revealed what his role was by his reveal. If we believe that the shadows don't have magical roles (Since converted players lose their roles when converted), it would be a stretch to accuse Schmidty of this.

I get a little skeptical when 2 people are able to point the finger at one person this early.

[path12]

There are two problems with this idea:
1. You shrink the number of people who may have an important role by coming out and saying your role is good but trivial
2. You ensure that we do not get a shadow if you are being truthful

Those are the problems I've seen with the idea from the outset. Just wish I had a little more time today to participate in the discussion.

Well, you do shrink it by one, true. My argument is that one person who doesn't have an important role would have been sacrificing that for the greater good, which is not to put any of the important roles in a position where they have to either reveal or make themselves known as important for the shadows to choose at night.....especially if the only way that we're going to vote mercy is with a credible reveal. It would suck to have say the crafter or one of the seer types be working behind the scenes and then lose their power to help the cultists...

However, it's moot for now since we seem to have come up with a good candidate. I maintain that it was not a bad idea though.

[path12]

Why would I want to vote mercy without some reason? I have said many times that people need to put some consideration into their mercy/punishment vote and not just throw them out blindly. I've repeated this many times. THanks for making my point for me.



You're also making my point for me. If you don't want to have the important roles reveal, wouldn't it be better for someone of relative non-importance take the hit since you're not in favor of mercy without revealing?

We're just gonna have to agree to disagree on this one.

[BrianD]

I get a little skeptical when 2 people are able to point the finger at one person this early.

I'm guessing this is how the good guys get to have a shot in this game. There will be lots of bad guy conversions and hopefully plenty of chances to identify bad guys. I'm expecting this to be a sprint on both sides.

[Tyrith]

Pretty slam dunk here.

UNVOTE ALAN
VOTE KWHIT

[DaddyTorgo]

Pretty slam dunk here.

UNVOTE ALAN
VOTE KWHIT


don't forget to vote for punishment

[SnDvls]

The only thing though is Schmidty pretty much revealed what his role was by his reveal. If we believe that the shadows don't have magical roles (Since converted players lose their roles when converted), it would be a stretch to accuse Schmidty of this.

this just means that Theurgist and or Ritualist needs to protect him

[Tyrith]

don't forget to vote for punishment

Done a long time ago.

[DaddyTorgo]

Done a long time ago.

ok. Just checking

[DaddyTorgo]

well I know that the theurgist is still alive and out there, and I believe working for the forces of good, so we have a shot with that at least to protect schmidty

[Joe]

wow! stunner of a revelation there. This bodes VERY well for the good guys. We could very well have this wrapped up quickly guys!

I wouldn't go that far. Seems easier for them to convert than us to catch them.

[Alan T]

well I know that the theurgist is still alive and out there, and I believe working for the forces of good, so we have a shot with that at least to protect schmidty

I believe the theurgist has no way to protect schmidty.

[Tyrith]

I believe the theurgist has no way to protect schmidty.

Why?

[path12]

Why?

Maybe they guarded him last night? That would prevent him from using his powers anyway. The ritualist(?) I think could protect him if he knew where he was sleeping, but that also puts more of a target on him and we can't even say for sure if that role is in the game, if I remember correctly someone said earlier that not all are.

[Tyrith]

Maybe they guarded him last night? That would prevent him from using his powers anyway. The ritualist(?) I think could protect him if he knew where he was sleeping, but that also puts more of a target on him and we can't even say for sure if that role is in the game, if I remember correctly someone said earlier that not all are.

Yeah, BK said one of our better roles isn't in the game.

[Alan T]

Why?


Theurgist - You can focus a magical field which will block other forms of magic from taking place. Each night you may specify a person, and they will not be able to use any magical abilities. You can't choose the same person more than two nights in a row. Note that this does not give you any knowledge of what their abilities are.

I listed the two roles earlier that I felt had any kind of Bodyguard ability, and between the two its only 5 limited guards for the entire game. No one responded or payed attention to that post though and instead decided to make up other things that I said instead.

[path12]

No one responded or payed attention to that post though and instead decided to make up other things that I said instead.

I just tried to bury the hatchet earlier, but if you want to insult me I'm ready to get back to it.

[Alan T]

The problem with the role reveal thing is that it seems very likely the 18 roles = 18 players from what has been said. I am guessing those who were selected as the starter shadow players ended up having their roles that were randomly chosen for them stripped. Whether or not they knew they "used to" be that role I have no idea.

What we could most likely surely get though is the Artificer through elimination, but you also would likely give up roles such as the seers and bodyguards and such.

You comment that people could protect the key roles.. but who would do that?
The ritualist can guard only 3 times in the entire game
The Spiritmaster can only protect the room they are in and only twice.

Thats it for protection roles, there are possibly items, but that would then require some form of protection item to exist AND be in the right hands AND be used on the right person...

So I fail to see how we can for sure have protection for key roles that choose to reveal themselves. It seems more likely to set them up as conversion targets to if nothing else remove a role from use that could harm the shadow.


Here is my post from earlier. As I can see it, the ritualist can guard Schmidty only 3 times the entire game, The spirit master can only guard the room and hope schmidty is in it, and can only do it twice in the game.

And more likely than not, without the ability to coordinate guarding, unless they revealed themselves which would be bad , they likely would possibly overlap protections.

[Alan T]

I just tried to bury the hatchet earlier, but if you want to insult me I'm ready to get back to it.

First, I didn't insult you in that post, second I directed it in general that no one commented on it, and evidentally ignored it since you all posted wrong information. Are you trying to stir stuff up again?

[Tyrith]

Well, the protects between them should at least allow for a stall for time. And it's really a threat to the bad guys...do they want to try to convert into that mess?

[Alan T]

vote punishment

[ntndeacon]

as good as it is to catch any Shadow, I doubt he will have names of any other shadow. the good part is that now we will KNOW their method of communication.

[DaddyTorgo]

hey maybe we got lucky and he will have another name going on. That'd certainly be best-case scenario.

[ntndeacon]

true, but wasn't it said he was converted not doing the converting?

[DaddyTorgo]

true, but wasn't it said he was converted not doing the converting?

(jeff goldblum impersonator voice) "I can't...read or write."

[DaddyTorgo]

DEADLINE

[Joe]

true, but wasn't it said he was converted not doing the converting?

yeah, Brian said that he saw kwhit being converted

[DaddyTorgo]

yeah. I just forgot that or somethin. blah

[Alan T]

I'm sad to see the path12/Alan T fight today. I'm also sad to see that the KWhit vote didn't get more attention. We can probably look back over the conversations today to see if there are any clues, but I'll share what I know.

KWhit was converted to Shadow last night. I used a Potion of Alertness and stayed in the ritual room last night. I saw a shadow member - who I could not identify - cast a spell on KWhit. I assume this has to be a conversion spell. I have already voted for him, but I will now...

Vote Punishment

Brian a question for you, were you sad to see the fight between Path and I because of some knowledge that Path is likely working with us, or just because it distracted from the Kwhit vote you had put out there? I'm trying to figure out who to target tonight and have a handful of suspects.

[Peregrine]

After the day's revelations, the votes for Kwhit came flying in. In the end, he was strapped down and the ritual begins. He kicked and fought, then screamed, and as the ritual of cleansing reached its peak, a cloud of evil Shadow energy flew out of him! From the magic that flew from him, it appears he was the Ritualist before the Shadow took him. When it was over he collapsed.


1) Mustang
2) BrianD
3) ntndeacon
4) Joe
5) Swaggs
6) Barkeep49
7) Kwhit - Ritualist/Shadow - Cleansed Day 2
8) Lathum
9) Chief Rum
10) Schmidty
11) Mr. Wednesday
12) hoopsguy
13) DaddyTorgo
14) ImTheCrew - Summoner - Cleansed Day 1
15) Tyrith
16) Path12
17) Alan T
18) SnDvls

[DaddyTorgo]

YESSSSSS...we did indeed get one boys!!

[DaddyTorgo]

alan...are you looking at targeting me tonight?

[Alan T]

Well.. good we got a shadow, but ouch thats not the role we wanted to see gone.

Kwhit a few questions, What is the form of communication with the other shadows, what type of messages did you receive/send them? Ie: What do you know that they know?

Do you know who converted you, or the identity of any of them?



Also for others with the role or items that can do this, I think kwhit is a real good candidate to try to get his magic role back if you happen to have an item that can do such, or the ability to create/find such an item. Would be really handy to have the Ritualist back.

[Schmidty]

I really hope I can get some protection, although I admit that I haven't figured out what roles are present.

[Lathum]

nice job guys. I just got home otherwise I would have switched my vote.

[DaddyTorgo]

protection for schmidty plz k thnx

[Joe]

can shadow players use magical items?

[DaddyTorgo]

my night action is in

[DaddyTorgo]

ya know what alan, don't answer that. it makes me look bad, and I don't REALLY need to know, as I plan on being mundane tonight anyways after my exertions last night

[BrianD]

Brian a question for you, were you sad to see the fight between Path and I because of some knowledge that Path is likely working with us, or just because it distracted from the Kwhit vote you had put out there? I'm trying to figure out who to target tonight and have a handful of suspects.

I was sad because it distracted from the KWhit vote. I put it out there as a random vote hoping whoever converted him might try to protect him. The fight provided a good distraction.

[DaddyTorgo]

well let's look back...did anyone try to defend him? i'm going to run out and grab some coffee but I will check after I get back

[Lathum]

So now that my role is out there any suggestions about what I should do tonight?

[Alan T]

So now that my role is out there any suggestions about what I should do tonight?

I would say if you have a good feel for someone who you think might be under the influence of the shadow, sleep them. However since you can only use your power 3 times in the game, it seems a bit early to use if its a crapshoot. In the end its your power, so if you feel confident about someone, I would go for it.

[Lathum]

My concern is that if I don't use it I will get converted and lose it.

[Alan T]

My concern is that if I don't use it I will get converted and lose it.


Then I guess I would go with whom you think the biggest risk of danger to us would be. Im not going to give any names as I'm trying to seperate my frustration at people not understanding my point in today's discussion with whom I think is actually trying to stir us astray, and think I would be too biased to suggest people to you.

[DaddyTorgo]

if i'm under suspiscion I ask for one night to take action and prove myself. I will go back and resubmit an action to peregrine that should let at least 1 other person know that I am good.

[SnDvls]

can shadow players use magical items?

like potions ect then yes

[Joe]

like potions ect then yes

yeah like the scroll of identity? so there is no guarantee that swaggs isn't a shadow then

[DaddyTorgo]

yeah like the scroll of identity? so there is no guarantee that swaggs isn't a shadow then

there wouldn't have been a guarentee after tonight anyway. The clock resets on the CoT each night

[Joe]

there wouldn't have been a guarentee after tonight anyway. The clock resets on the CoT each night

unless there is nobody converted

[DaddyTorgo]

unless there is nobody converted

correct

[KWhit]

*wakes up and looks around*

Wow. I just had the craziest dream.

And you were there. And you were there. And Aunt Em and Toto too.

[path12]

*wakes up and looks around*

Wow. I just had the craziest dream.

And you were there. And you were there. And Aunt Em and Toto too.

So what happened in the dream?

[hoopsguy]

Very glad to see us snag a Shadow today; hope he can provide us with some insight ASAP.

Now to go back and read the posts from today - don't normally have to do that but I was only able to skim in my limited time today. It certainly seemed like there was a good amount of info out in the open for an enterprising sort (on either side) to collect/use.