Werewolf LIX: Anarchy in Fairytale Land Day 4 GAME OVER SHREK WINS!!!

[Telle]

Has anyone played a game like this before where it seems like there's a multitude of victory conditions? Any thoughts on strategy?

[Alan T]

Has anyone played a game like this before where it seems like there's a multitude of victory conditions? Any thoughts on strategy?

Well I still stand by my belief that the bad guys must all have some form of communications together (the wolf(wolves) and dragon and the others out there) to balance out things. Unfortunatly my search for my friends doesn't tell me if someone is good or bad (ie I checked out Hoops last night and have no idea who or what he is).. just if they are one of my friends... So I don't have alot of information that is ultra helpful to provide to other people day in and day out. I do know that various people mentioned finding potions or items or such that aren't of use of them.. I am guessing that others might be looking for something along those lines, but the people who are looking for them might be bad or good... So its probably good to share that information on things you find, but make sure that you hand it off before the end of the day so someone doesn't kill you for it. (Even if you haven't found someone else who wants it, just pass it on to someone random .. or at least say you did).

I know items can be passed in the game because someone else just passed me something.. I have no clue what it does though and am afraid to try it out :)

[RendeR]

One other thing I am unclear on though.. I guess I might have to PM this to Render.. but if my victory condition is to have one particular character dead, what happens if they are sent off via vote? Does that mean I fail unless they are brought back from the Bog and then killed? or does getting voted off count just the same as being killed for my victory condition?

Each groups/players initial PM should have listed out the precise terms for what had to happen for them to win (barring a couple that I corrected after the fact) If it says killed/dead then that is what must happen, if it just says eliminated then lynched is good enough as long as they stay that way for at least 1 full day.

If someone You ned Alan is in th bog you canot win unless they get out.

And does anyone know HOW we bring someone back from the bog? Are there certain characters that have this ability, or is this something that anyone can somehow do? Maybe if we find the right item or something??

There are a number of ways people can escape the bog. There is at least 1 item that can help, there are roles that can help and there is sheer dumb luck =)


Hrm, interesting. I still have no real idea what I'm doing.

RendeR, I know we all have our own winning conditions, but does the game then end when someone reaches theirs? Or when does the game end exactly? If answer needs to be in PM, then that's cool



As soon as any one player/team/groups vitory conditions are met (I'm tracking everything) then i will announce the victory and end the game.

[Barkeep49]

Ok, so basically then as far as I'm concerned people outside of my victory condition are enemies. So even people with begnin villager roles are a threat to me because they might achieve their victory condition before me. Hmm. Very interesting.

[Alan T]

Each groups/players initial PM should have listed out the precise terms for what had to happen for them to win (barring a couple that I corrected after the fact) If it says killed/dead then that is what must happen, if it just says eliminated then lynched is good enough as long as they stay that way for at least 1 full day.

If someone You ned Alan is in th bog you canot win unless they get out.



There are a number of ways people can escape the bog. There is at least 1 item that can help, there are roles that can help and there is sheer dumb luck =)






As soon as any one player/team/groups vitory conditions are met (I'm tracking everything) then i will announce the victory and end the game.


You mentioned for the eliminated condition that someone must stay in the bog for more than 1 day, does that mean inversely that someone who has been in the bog for more than 1 day also can't be brought back by the item/people/dumb luck in getting out? That getting out is only possible for the first 24 hours of being in there?

So I guess we all aren't necessarily working together, and in some sense don't want each other to succeed before we do.. but I still contend that I find it likely the bad guys have some form of communication with each other (otherwise it would be quite a shock for me to see little red riding hood get killed by a wolf day 1.. the odds on that are really small).. I also have absolutely no idea how I will be going about finding the person I need to eliminate since I have no power or ability to locate them.. Maybe one of my friends I need to find has an ability to do so, and I just need to find them.

[Alan T]

Time for me to improvise my strategy a bit..


He's not one of my friends, so don't know if he is a good guy or bad guy, but sorry bud!


Vote Hoopsguy

[RendeR]

You mentioned for the eliminated condition that someone must stay in the bog for more than 1 day, does that mean inversely that someone who has been in the bog for more than 1 day also can't be brought back by the item/people/dumb luck in getting out? That getting out is only possible for the first 24 hours of being in there?

So I guess we all aren't necessarily working together, and in some sense don't want each other to succeed before we do.. but I still contend that I find it likely the bad guys have some form of communication with each other (otherwise it would be quite a shock for me to see little red riding hood get killed by a wolf day 1.. the odds on that are really small).. I also have absolutely no idea how I will be going about finding the person I need to eliminate since I have no power or ability to locate them.. Maybe one of my friends I need to find has an ability to do so, and I just need to find them.


Any player can be released after any amount of time. The 24 hour limit is basically so the game doesn't drag on forever and a day. it also gives a chance for another faction to release someone they know will end the game not in their favor if left in the bog.

[Lorena]

These complicated games give my little brain a headache.. I also found an item... seems to be magical but I've no idea what it does.

[RendeR]

These complicated games give my little brain a headache.. I also found an item... seems to be magical but I've no idea what it does.


And to think, I tore out 2/3 of the actual rules and options for the players from my original game design!

[Barkeep49]

Alan: I suspect there is one or more items that can help you with your searching. My problem is that right now I have an item which seems nice enough but I have no idea what it does and based on the PM I'm inclined to believe it's useful for someone else who isn't me. I just don't know what I should do with it. If I had the option to destroy it I probably would.

[Barkeep49]

And to think, I tore out 2/3 of the actual rules and options for the players from my original game design!
To be honest I wish that 2/3 was back in.

[Lorena]

You guys and your complicated games... pfft


;)

[Barkeep49]

You guys and your complicated games... pfft


;)
I know! I'm actually kind of happy that in comparison my most recent game doesn't seem all that complicated when compared to the games Hoops and CW have up coming and the one Alan just finished :).

[RendeR]

Alan: I suspect there is one or more items that can help you with your searching. My problem is that right now I have an item which seems nice enough but I have no idea what it does and based on the PM I'm inclined to believe it's useful for someone else who isn't me. I just don't know what I should do with it. If I had the option to destroy it I probably would.


Items may be given freely to other players via PM to me at any time during the day. Mundane items (not listed as magical) may be destroyed by sending me a PM as well.


using an item does not use an action. You may use an item as often during the day as you wish if the item allows for such a thing.

[Alan T]

Alan: I suspect there is one or more items that can help you with your searching. My problem is that right now I have an item which seems nice enough but I have no idea what it does and based on the PM I'm inclined to believe it's useful for someone else who isn't me. I just don't know what I should do with it. If I had the option to destroy it I probably would.

Well based on what Render said, I am trying to figure out how helping someone else by give it to them will pursue your interests any in the game. At this point I am struggling to figure out how this game doesn't just end up a battle royale so to speak, with the last man standing.. and the people who find their friends first controlling the votes each day.

This game could become chaos pretty quickly.

[RendeR]

This game could become chaos pretty quickly.


I didn't name it ANARCHY in fairy tale land for nothing Alan =)

[Passacaglia]

I feel like this is a good time to reveal that I'm Buttercup.

[jeheinz72]

I feel like this is a good time to reveal that I'm Buttercup.


That'd be great and all, but I have no idea what this means.

[Passacaglia]

That'd be great and all, but I have no idea what this means.

Well, it means that I'm good.

[SnDvls]

I feel like this is a good time to reveal that I'm Buttercup.

is this a good idea? allowing the Dread Pirate Roberts to know who you are? I'm sure his goal has something to do with you.

[st.cronin]

I have no items, but submit for your consideration that Dodgerchick has a tail.

VOTE DODGERCHICK

[Alan T]

That'd be great and all, but I have no idea what this means.

It means that he is Buttercup from the Princess Bride, and that likely the Dread Pirate Roberts is looking for her and now knows who to search for today. Once they find each other, they will be able to PM with each other and go about trying to find someone else that they are friends with? Or try to figure out who their nemesis is to kill, who I am assuming is the Evil Mastermind (even though i would think the six fingered man would be a better choice).

Similarly there is Lancelot who is looking for Guinevere , Shrek who is looking for Fiona, and maybe others, Peter Pan looking for Wendy? or possibly just looking for tinkerbelle?

Obviously there are other groups with different types of win conditions, but this is just one of the bunch in the game.

[Alan T]

is this a good idea? allowing the Dread Pirate Roberts to know who you are? I'm sure his goal has something to do with you.

The Dread Pirate Roberts was a good guy, the Evil Mastermind I am guessing is supposed to be the Sicilian? Or maybe the evil role that is looking for Buttercup isn't listed in the character list.. like I would assume either Prince Humperdinck or the Six fingererd man to be after her..

I agree though, that Im not sure how wise it is to put a bullseye on yourself.

[Passacaglia]

It means that he is Buttercup from the Princess Bride, and that likely the Dread Pirate Roberts is looking for her and now knows who to search for today. Once they find each other, they will be able to PM with each other and go about trying to find someone else that they are friends with? Or try to figure out who their nemesis is to kill, who I am assuming is the Evil Mastermind (even though i would think the six fingered man would be a better choice).

Similarly there is Lancelot who is looking for Guinevere , Shrek who is looking for Fiona, and maybe others, Peter Pan looking for Wendy? or possibly just looking for tinkerbelle?

Obviously there are other groups with different types of win conditions, but this is just one of the bunch in the game.

Are you the Dread Pirate Roberts, then?

[Alan T]

Are you the Dread Pirate Roberts, then?

No, I am not. Am I correct on your winning condition though? if so, at least help fill me in on who your nemesis is since I'm kind of missing a few of those pieces in my puzzle I've been trying to piece together all morning :)

I actually don't have anything to do with your story line.

[jeheinz72]

The Dread Pirate Roberts was a good guy, the Evil Mastermind I am guessing is supposed to be the Sicilian? Or maybe the evil role that is looking for Buttercup isn't listed in the character list.. like I would assume either Prince Humperdinck or the Six fingererd man to be after her..

I agree though, that Im not sure how wise it is to put a bullseye on yourself.

So yeah, wouldn't the Evil Mastermind or whoever is Pass's bad guy then just want to pick him off? Even if he unites with Dread Pirate Roberts, he's likely to then get killed, so what was the point?

[Telle]

So yeah, wouldn't the Evil Mastermind or whoever is Pass's bad guy then just want to pick him off? Even if he unites with Dread Pirate Roberts, he's likely to then get killed, so what was the point?

Maybe he IS the bad guy, doing a gutsy move to get the Dread Pirate Roberts to speak up?

[Passacaglia]

Maybe he IS the bad guy, doing a gutsy move to get the Dread Pirate Roberts to speak up?

No. I'm Buttercup.

[Alan T]

Maybe he IS the bad guy, doing a gutsy move to get the Dread Pirate Roberts to speak up?

I actually was thinking he was the Dread Pirate Roberts trying to find Buttercup and saying it this way to not give it away to whomever his nemesis is.

[ntndeacon]

I have no items, but submit for your consideration that Dodgerchick has a tail.

VOTE DODGERCHICK

worth a shot. although that isn't as descriptive as it would be in other games. I guess that her tail is you right now though. :D

Vote DodgerChick

[st.cronin]

I guess that her tail is you right now though. :D


Was last night. Or yesterday, not sure how the schedule really works.

[Lorena]

I have no items, but submit for your consideration that Dodgerchick has a tail.

VOTE DODGERCHICK

Nice! What kind of tail? Fluffy? Long? Curly? So many tails in this game. I found someone with a tail as well.

[RendeR]

Was last night. Or yesterday, not sure how the schedule really works.


I'm kinda working this as I go SC, basically the only discerning factor is that day actions get responses almost instantly (as I can) and the rest have to wait because of actions that depend on what others do as well so those get sorted out after deadline and become defacto "night" actions.

[ntndeacon]

I just looked for stuff and found nothing! hopefully will have better luck tonight.

[Telle]

Nice! What kind of tail? Fluffy? Long? Curly? So many tails in this game. I found someone with a tail as well.

Care to say who?

[RendeR]

I heart Oliegirl.


just sayin.

[Passacaglia]

I actually was thinking he was the Dread Pirate Roberts trying to find Buttercup and saying it this way to not give it away to whomever his nemesis is.

No, just Buttercup. You guys know that I'm a pretty straight shooter in these games. Look at last game as evidence. Everyone was all conspiracy theorist, and going off on all these crazy tangents about what I could be up to, but in the end, the result was pretty boring.

[DaddyTorgo]

good news villagers! i have decided to replace sebastian (despite wanting a game off). Now let me get up to speed and catch us some wolves while I hopefully try to get out of the Bog I guess (per my PM from Render).

This is my introductory post.

[Thomkal]

Just checking in and reporting that although I didn't find anything in Sherwood Forest last night, I did see the wolf and Thomkal, though he wasn't dead yet. However, I did catch a glimpse of his lace panties ;)

well i suppose you could have them now since I don't have any use for them anymore. :D

[Lorena]

Care to say who?

I wouldn't, but cronin might. ;)

[Alan T]

good news villagers! i have decided to replace sebastian (despite wanting a game off). Now let me get up to speed and catch us some wolves while I hopefully try to get out of the Bog I guess (per my PM from Render).

This is my introductory post.

Just for clarification sake, can you post and comment while in the bog, or are you kind of stuck there until someone or something frees you?

[Lorena]

I wouldn't, but cronin might. ;)

Oh wait, i'm such an idiot, you mean who I found with a tail? Not quite yet, I certainly don't wanna make it easier for other players when I have my own victory conditions.

[RendeR]

Just for clarification sake, can you post and comment while in the bog, or are you kind of stuck there until someone or something frees you?


He cannot post or vote until he escapes from the Bog, in whatever manner that happens.

[SnDvls]

Just for clarification sake, can you post and comment while in the bog, or are you kind of stuck there until someone or something frees you?

the rules say no posting or voting while there.

[SnDvls]

good news villagers! i have decided to replace sebastian (despite wanting a game off). Now let me get up to speed and catch us some wolves while I hopefully try to get out of the Bog I guess (per my PM from Render).

This is my introductory post.

welcome DT

[RendeR]

You all hear a tiny shreeeeeeek! and as you follow the sound you find St. Cronin lying on the ground with a crossbow bolt sticking out between his tiny little wings!

St. Cronin is dead!! he was Tinkerbelle!

[Lorena]

right on... welcome dt

[Lorena]

You all hear a tiny shreeeeeeek! and as you follow the sound you find St. Cronin lying on the ground with a crossbow bolt sticking out between his tiny little wings!

St. Cronin is dead!! he was Tinkerbelle!


Uh... wtf?

[st.cronin]

Well.

[oliegirl]

I heart Oliegirl.


just sayin.


Oh yeah, thanks render...now Telle is going to be out for me! Like I don't have enough to worry about with wolves, dragons, pigs, etc... :rolleyes:

[Abe Sargent]

Has anyone played a game like this before where it seems like there's a multitude of victory conditions? Any thoughts on strategy?

The Middle Earth game had four factions, Rangers, Townsfolk of Bree, Agents of Sauron and Agents of Saruman.

[Lorena]

Well, that kill made it easier for Capt. Hook, which I'm assuming is part of his victory condition.

[Abe Sargent]

Vote Dodgerchick

No tail on Tinkjerbelle

[Abe Sargent]

Wait, nm. I thought DC came after cronin, I had it in reverse order, my bad. Sleepy catch ups are bad things.

UNVOTE DODGERCHICK BECUASE IM STUPID

[jeheinz72]

So people can just die out of the blue? Hrm, that's interesting.

[RendeR]

Oliegirl rears back, winds up and Heaves an object at Telle, it HITS! and shatters spilling oily black goo all over her. She looks disgusting and smells even worse!

Worst part is, she appears to be very sick now..her skin turns an ashen shade and she can barely walk!

Telle has been POISONED!!

[SnDvls]

well Olie....looks like you gots some explaning to do

[RendeR]

Poisons do have antidotes. If Telle doesn't get an antidote by 12 noon tomorrow she will die.

[Alan T]

Unvote Hoopsguy

Vote Oliegirl


The action on Cronin seems like it could possibly come from Dodgerchick, and I was contemplating voting for her, but this action against Telle
obviously comes from Oliegirl. I don't know that any of us peaceloving folk around here want people randomly trying to kill or injure others. While we all may have various winning conditions, we'll all find it harder to survive if people are trying to kill each other left and right.

[jeheinz72]

Yeah, we need to hear from Olie on this one..

[path12]

I started the game with something that would help bring someone back according to the description.

As did I.

[SnDvls]

I'm holding out voting for Oliegirl until I hear a plausible explination

[RendeR]

I'll be out until sometime after 2pm EST, I'll catch up on PM's and questions after that time.!

[path12]

Has anyone played a game like this before where it seems like there's a multitude of victory conditions? Any thoughts on strategy?

It's tough because I don't want to say much about my character yet because I have a hunch that at least one bad guy is looking for me. I'm hoping that as the game goes on we'll be learning more about the overall goal and then start to piece together strategies.

[path12]

Dola, in the meantime I'm trying to find out some things towards my individual goal. I'd be happy to share that once I get some good info.

[hoopsguy]

The information that Alan outlined is pretty consistent with what my objectives are in this game. Find an ally, eliminate a foe.

For what it is worth, I checked Chief Rum last night and he is not my ally. I checked SnDvls today and he is not my ally. Dead Cronin was not my ally. Based on Alan's results searching me, I'm going to guess he is not my ally.

Telle, I've got a potion that I could attempt using on you but I have no idea if it is an antidote - I just know the color of the potion. Care to give me a reason why I would use it on you rather than keep it, move it, whatever?

[oliegirl]

I was told I had a potion, but was not told what it did or what it's effects were. I was not told if the effects would be positive or negative. I suspected Telle might be the dragon, and since my winning condition includes eliminating the dragon, I took a chance.

[hoopsguy]

For what it is worth, Olie's description of the potion (not knowing what it does or what are the effects) is entirely consistent with mine.

Although if you knew it was a black potion, that doesn't sound all that positive in fairytale land. If you are guessing that Telle was the dragon, then you were hoping the effects would be negative, right?

Problem is that there are quite a few roles that have tails in this game - for example, the pigs (assuming they are around).

What is the basis for thinking that Telle is the Dragon?

[Alan T]

I was told I had a potion, but was not told what it did or what it's effects were. I was not told if the effects would be positive or negative. I suspected Telle might be the dragon, and since my winning condition includes eliminating the dragon, I took a chance.

I don't really feel good with this story. We've had other people already come out stating they received a potion without information about it, and why would you suspect Telle is the dragon, what has she done to this point that would indicate that to you at all?

This feels pretty far fetched to me and doesn't sound like something I buy very much.

[Telle]

Well that wasn't very nice.

VOTE OLIEGIRL

[Telle]

And I am definitely NOT the dragon and I don't see what would have made you come to such a conclusion.

[jeheinz72]

Yeah I'd want to know more on why Telle, that seems random.

[Barkeep49]

Olie: Why think Telle is a dragon over Dodgerchick who's been accused of having a tail?

[Abe Sargent]

I don;t know. Voting Oliegirl seems a bit obvious. SHe had to know that if it turned out bad, she'd be lynched, and no bad guy would do that I dont think. I'm not voting for her right now.

[hoopsguy]

OK, so what do people think is the objective of our lynch today?
1.) Get a wolf?
2.) Get the dragon?
3.) Take out a competing team member?

How far does #3 fall below the other items? Particularly if you are Peter Pan and have lost a teammate at this point? As far as I know, my victory conditions are still intact and I would like to preserve them. But I would rather slow down the wolves and dragon (by a wide margin) than take out competing factions because I'm working under the notion that competing factions are not going to try and kill us at night.

[Lorena]

So today we find out that BK wants the dragon dead, an unknown person killed cronin, oliegirl poisoned telle and that several of us found items and don't know what they do... at least I don't.

What's a little confusing is why we know oliegirl poisoned Telle, but don't know cronin's killer? Doesn't make sense to me.

[Lorena]

OK, so what do people think is the objective of our lynch today?
1.) Get a wolf?
2.) Get the dragon?
3.) Take out a competing team member?

How far does #3 fall below the other items? Particularly if you are Peter Pan and have lost a teammate at this point? As far as I know, my victory conditions are still intact and I would like to preserve them. But I would rather slow down the wolves and dragon (by a wide margin) than take out competing factions because I'm working under the notion that competing factions are not going to try and kill us at night.

I was just thinking about this and wondered the same. At this point no one knows who is who with the exception of Buttercup, that's if Passacaglia is telling the truth. Unless ppl see hints but I see nothing.

[Alan T]

OK, so what do people think is the objective of our lynch today?
1.) Get a wolf?
2.) Get the dragon?
3.) Take out a competing team member?

How far does #3 fall below the other items? Particularly if you are Peter Pan and have lost a teammate at this point? As far as I know, my victory conditions are still intact and I would like to preserve them. But I would rather slow down the wolves and dragon (by a wide margin) than take out competing factions because I'm working under the notion that competing factions are not going to try and kill us at night.

Well I can't speak for everyone else, but as my action indicated, I think our strategy for today needs to try to reclaim some sense of order to our actions. If we all just go off attacking each other, we are handing the game over to the bad guys pretty quickly.

If we want to all vote for people that we are competing against, then thats pretty much almost everyone in I think most people's cases, so thats not really a good strategy and ends up opening the way for groups that are willing or in a position to cooperate (ie: the bad guys).

I don't think we have details on who are the bad guys or who is a wolf or dragon or such... Cronin said that DC has a tail, and then Cronin suddenly died, I would think DC would be a decent choice for a lynch today and almost moved my vote there, before the Oliegirl action happened.. Since my guesses about DC is more based on speculation wheras Oliegirl obviously made her action, thats where I am going today..

lets face it, I found a weapon, others have weapons, some people have potions that may or may not be harmful.. if we all choose randomly to off people, eventually its going to take out someone that is part of -your- winning condition.. in that case who wins? Likely the bad guys I am guessing.

Oliegirl told her explanation which doesn't really even seem plausible to me.. I might feel differently if she had flat out came and said "I scanned Telle, she isn't part of my alliance so I figured I would remove her from the game".. I think I would rather everyone vote off folks than just kill them in that case, but at least it would be more believable...

In my mind right now, I think Oliegirl is where my vote is remaining for two reasons.. 1) I don't think she was telling the truth in her explanation .. and 2) If everyone decides to start attacking people not in their alliance, the bad guys will win.

[Lorena]

You all hear a tiny shreeeeeeek! and as you follow the sound you find St. Cronin lying on the ground with a crossbow bolt sticking out between his tiny little wings!

St. Cronin is dead!! he was Tinkerbelle!


Someone must have found this crossbow laying somewhere, unless one of the fairy tail creatures carries this and just shot in the dark... as Oliegirl did with Telle, I'm assuming.

[path12]

So today we find out that BK wants the dragon dead, an unknown person killed cronin, oliegirl poisoned telle and that several of us found items and don't know what they do... at least I don't.

What's a little confusing is why we know oliegirl poisoned Telle, but don't know cronin's killer? Doesn't make sense to me.

I was looking through the list to see who might come equipped with a crossbow. I thought Capn Hook had a sword, don't know about Lord Farquar or Dread Pirate Roberts, or the Evil Mastermind for that matter. I guess Lancelot would have a sword also.

I'm assuming that it's a weapon someone started with, otherwise it seems that someone would have had to scan Cronin as Tinkerbelle, recognize him as an enemy, AND just happen to find a crossbow laying around. Seems unlikely.

Of course, maybe whoever shot him was just wanted to find out what happened or is plain evil and Cronin just was a random target.

[path12]

Dola, or it could be that it is someone not even on the character list. I know I'm not, for instance.

[RendeR]

I have afull inbox people, give me a few minutes to clear some space and I'l let you know to resend your msgs if you got that report when you tried to send something to me.

[Alan T]

Dola, or it could be that it is someone not even on the character list. I know I'm not, for instance.

Well Robin Hood was my first guess when I saw someone hit with a crossbow.. but then.. why would Robin Hood as a good guy take out Cronin after he reported that DC had a tail?

Robin Hood wouldn't have chosen to do it based on a scan of Cronin, and why would a good guy take a shot in the dark at cronin out of the blue instead of say DC? The same logic I apply to why Oliegirl's action smells rotten to me applies here.. So I think after going through that, it likely was a bad guy who got a cross bow on day 1 who chose to use it on day 2 as an action.

[Lorena]

Yup, that and because cronin pointed me as having a tail, the assumption would be that I would wanna kill him which is completely untrue.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Wow, I was not expecting the day to progress as it has so far.

[RendeR]

Ok, inbox is clear, telle and passacaglia, please resend your recent PM's those are the only ones I have a report that were mised.


Thanks for being patient everyone!

[Lorena]

Well, everyone has their own winning conditions and I think the actions today are a clear indication of where ppl are going... at least these 2 people. 2 people dead, that's 2 groups that are probably screwed and 2 groups that have an advantage.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Regarding who's good or bad... I'd think that anybody with the innate ability to kill is "bad" in the sense that they are liable to kill you at any time, unless your victory conditions align with theirs. I'd think that nobody is really "good", except for people who share your own victory conditions.

Looking over the list of players, I think there are as many non-bad as bad who have tails. I'd hesitate to read anything into it.

[Alan T]

Regarding who's good or bad... I'd think that anybody with the innate ability to kill is "bad" in the sense that they are liable to kill you at any time, unless your victory conditions align with theirs. I'd think that nobody is really "good", except for people who share your own victory conditions.

Looking over the list of players, I think there are as many non-bad as bad who have tails. I'd hesitate to read anything into it.

Based on what Render said yesterday, everyone has the ability to "attack" .. whether or not that means successfully kill, I do not know.. The difference is that I think we need to punish people for doing so when it ends up being a good character killed or attacked, especially when the motivations for doing so remain largely unknown.

[jeheinz72]

Well, at this exact moment, I can't see a situation where I'm not voting for DC or Oliegirl. Anyone have any other front-runners for a vote at this time?

[Mr. Wednesday]

I realize that most people have the ability to kill or attack, but I think there's a dividing line between the people who are taking a chance on furthering a victory condition, and people who need to do it every night for a victory condition.

[Lorena]

yay, let's kill everyone with a tail! please... you could be killing a furry little bunny for all you know.

[Lorena]

dola,

:rolleyes:

[Barkeep49]

I realize that most people have the ability to kill or attack, but I think there's a dividing line between the people who are taking a chance on furthering a victory condition, and people who need to do it every night for a victory condition.
I think this is a crucial point.

[jeheinz72]

yay, let's kill everyone with a tail! please... you could be killing a furry little bunny for all you know.

No, I agree, it's less than ideal, but even you having say a 50/50 shot at being bad because you have a tail (I count 12 listed "tailed" roles, 6 of which would be bad/wolfish) is better than what I have.

Of course that is still pending my making up my mind on the whole Olie situation.

I, of course, have a team oriented victory condition like those people have stated as having above, but I'm so nowhere on it that I can't really even vote based on that end.

[Alan T]

I realize that most people have the ability to kill or attack, but I think there's a dividing line between the people who are taking a chance on furthering a victory condition, and people who need to do it every night for a victory condition.

That is the thing I am unsure of.. who has a role that they have to kill every night for a victory condition? My guess is that Cpt Hook will have a victory condition to eliminate Peter Pan and Tinkerbelle, The Wolf(wolves) might have to remove Little Red Riding hood and the three pigs, etc... On the flip side, I know I have to eliminate a bad guy myself.. but like the clarification I asked of Render this morning, he stated eliminate can also mean vote off for 24 hours+ .. thats why I took my stance I did on Oliegirl. I found her action to be malicious and one that doesn't seem to match a "good" behavior for what I expect in this game from similar good characters like myself.

I think it is up to other good characters to try to "police" this behavior by punishing others who attack in this game rather than simply vote to the bog. If there are good characters that specifically have to kill and not eliminate someone, then please feel free to correct me, but this is a very key point that I asked Render that he clarified for me this morning. (as you can see in the thread).

So My vote is staying on Oliegirl for what I perceive as an "evil" attack, regardless of if she is good or bad.,

[jeheinz72]

I think I'm leaning that way, anyone who does "evil" things, should be looked at, they certainly aren't helping me and my team win, so

Vote Oliegirl

[oliegirl]

Guys, I'm good...I knew I had a black potion but that was it. PB saw me last night, and then saw the wolf with red fabric, so you know I'm not the killer. I considered that the potion could be bad, but there were other possibilities as well...it could have been a truth potion, it could have been a conversion potion, it could have been a lot of things other than poison. I'm sorry it was poison, if I'd had that information I wouldn't have used it.

[SnDvls]

well PB do you want to confirm what Olie has said?

[path12]

Robin Hood wouldn't have chosen to do it based on a scan of Cronin, and why would a good guy take a shot in the dark at cronin out of the blue instead of say DC? The same logic I apply to why Oliegirl's action smells rotten to me applies here.. So I think after going through that, it likely was a bad guy who got a cross bow on day 1 who chose to use it on day 2 as an action.


I think we have to be careful about the good guy/bad guy definition this game. There are the overall bad guys (the wolves, mice, evil mastermind), but there also seem to be good guys who might have a victory condition of taking out someone and make a wrong call.

[Schmidty]

Just checking in after waking up. I'll have to peruse the thread a bit later, as I have to pick up my daughter and eat lunch.

[path12]

Yup, that and because cronin pointed me as having a tail, the assumption would be that I would wanna kill him which is completely untrue.

Why would someone with a tail want to kill Tinkerbelle? I don't get that.

[Barkeep49]

Olie you can not be the killer of little red and still be bad.

[Alan T]

Olie you can not be the killer of little red and still be bad.


I don't understand this sentence at all.

[path12]

On the flip side, I know I have to eliminate a bad guy myself.. but like the clarification I asked of Render this morning, he stated eliminate can also mean vote off for 24 hours+

That's very interesting, because I also have to eliminate a bad guy, but it specifically says they need to be killed and just lynched doesn't count.

[Telle]

I don't understand this sentence at all.

It took me about five readings before I got it. I THINK he's saying that she could be bad regardless of whether or not she killed Little Red Riding Hood. So even if she isn't the killer, that doesn't clear her.

[jeheinz72]

There are the overall bad guys (the wolves, mice, evil mastermind),.

Ok, I could be dense, but why are the mice bad?

[jeheinz72]

I don't understand this sentence at all.

Ditto.

[path12]

Then blind Mice got all uppity and tried to rally people, but all they rallied was a huge round of laughter. What good could 3 blind mice do?<o></o>
<o></o>
So here’s the thing. SOMEWHERE in fairy tale land, there are some wolves, some mice and some pigs. And the regular populace wants them all found and dealt with so that some semblance of normalcy can return. The only problem with this plan is that the populace is scheming for their own ends as well.

Ok, I could be dense, but why are the mice bad?

I read the above to mean the mice were bad. I could be reading that totally wrong.

[Lorena]

Ok, I could be dense, but why are the mice bad?

Are you man or mouse?

Sorry, couldn't resist :)

[Lorena]

Why would someone with a tail want to kill Tinkerbelle? I don't get that.

Sorry, I don't think I explained myself very well. What I mean is someone could say, "hey, cronin said DC has a tail! whoa, cronin's dead, DC must have killed him because he pointed her out, let's vote for her"... catch my drift?

[jeheinz72]

I read the above to mean the mice were bad. I could be reading that totally wrong.

I read that to mean they are a faction (like the pigs listed above are a faction) but not necessarily the uber-bad-one or an uber-bad-one that we need to eliminate

[DaddyTorgo]

someone save telle!!!!

[Abe Sargent]

We should at least wait on OG until Telle dies, right?

I've seen villager kills where they've gotten a bad guy, and kills where they've gotten a good one. We should at least wait and see.

[Telle]

We should at least wait on OG until Telle dies, right?

I've seen villager kills where they've gotten a bad guy, and kills where they've gotten a good one. We should at least wait and see.

Well I'd personally prefer to live, if that's alright by you.

[hoopsguy]

DT - are you allowed to comment?

Anxiety - I'm of the same opinion that you are on Oliegirl. I'm inclined to see how this plays out before throwing her under the bus. Of course, if someone does save Telle then we aren't going to be able to interpret Olie's actions.

For what it is worth, I thinking Olie's motivations are exactly what she says they were in the thread mainly because that is consistent with what I've seen of her play in previous games. No idea if she made a good decision or a bad one, but I'm unlikely to vote for her today.

[hoopsguy]

Dola - not trying to be a jerk, DT. Just making sure I understand the rules for what happens when someone is moved to the bog.

[oliegirl]

well PB do you want to confirm what Olie has said?

He did in post 236...

Guys, I didn't kill Telle...she is "saveable"...I took a chance and it ended being a mistake, don't sit there and tell me that you guys haven't made mistakes in WW before.

I'm telling you, I'm not a bad guy.

[DaddyTorgo]

sorry. i posted and i wasn't supposed to. *clamping my mouth shut*

[Telle]

He did in post 236...

Guys, I didn't kill Telle...she is "saveable"...I took a chance and it ended being a mistake, don't sit there and tell me that you guys haven't made mistakes in WW before.

I'm telling you, I'm not a bad guy.

And if we lynch you then you're technically still "saveable" too.. and without a 12 noon expiration date even.

[hoopsguy]

Telle, can you give me a reason why I would want to use my potion (only know color) to try and save you rather than doing something else with it? Can you convince me that you are worth my taking a chance on you?

[hoopsguy]

- can anyone vouch for you yet at this point in the game?
- is your role an important one for my personal victory conditions?
- is your role an important one for the overall success of the "village", whatever the heck that means this game?

Just throwing out a couple of areas where you could say something that would help me make a decision. I've held off on my second action for the day to allow time for this.

[oliegirl]

- can anyone vouch for you yet at this point in the game?
- is your role an important one for my personal victory conditions?
- is your role an important one for the overall success of the "village", whatever the heck that means this game?

Just throwing out a couple of areas where you could say something that would help me make a decision. I've held off on my second action for the day to allow time for this.

Hoops...who are you talking to here???

[Telle]

- can anyone vouch for you yet at this point in the game?
- is your role an important one for my personal victory conditions?
- is your role an important one for the overall success of the "village", whatever the heck that means this game?

Just throwing out a couple of areas where you could say something that would help me make a decision. I've held off on my second action for the day to allow time for this.

1. Not that I know of.
2. No idea.. I don't know your role or your personal victory conditions.
3. No idea.. my role PM didn't say anything about wolves or pigs or mice.

And quite honestly, I have no idea if your potion would cure me or finish me off. So I'd say save the potion until tomorrow and we'll see if there's anything to figure out after deadline comes.

[RendeR]

One point did come up a bit ago and I'll throw everyone a bone here.

If for whatever reason someone cannot complete their victory conditions, They cannot win the game.

However, if they are alive at the point that the wolves are totally eliminated then the Fairy Tale Characters al win a minor victory of their own, and the Pigs get a SUPERIOR one.

Hope that helps =)

[Telle]

Ok, so the wolves are the wolves? And everyone else are the villagers? Basically? (with the possible exception of a wolf-ally or two?)

[hoopsguy]

Hoops...who are you talking to here???

Telle. Anyone else who feels like answering those questions can feel free to do so, but since I'm trying to figure out whether to attempt a save with my potion of unknown capabilities, I figure I might have a chance of getting answers from her to help me make a good call.

Olie - do you think that someone should try to save Telle at this point? If so, what has changed from when you used the potion on her initially?

[RendeR]

Ok, so the wolves are the wolves? And everyone else are the villagers? Basically? (with the possible exception of a wolf-ally or two?)


basically.

[hoopsguy]

And quite honestly, I have no idea if your potion would cure me or finish me off. So I'd say save the potion until tomorrow and we'll see if there's anything to figure out after deadline comes.

How would the deadline results impact your poisoned condition? Also, I will almost certainly be passing my potion rather than holding onto it (now that I've announced it) so the decision tomorrow would rest with someone else.

If you would prefer I not use it today, that is fine and I'll stop considering it. But I didn't understand the reasoning about what tomorrow might bring as it relates to your health.

[hoopsguy]

Ok, so the wolves are the wolves? And everyone else are the villagers? Basically? (with the possible exception of a wolf-ally or two?)

RendeR's quote also confirms that there are pigs in the game. Something that I did not know until now.

[Telle]

How would the deadline results impact your poisoned condition? Also, I will almost certainly be passing my potion rather than holding onto it (now that I've announced it) so the decision tomorrow would rest with someone else.

If you would prefer I not use it today, that is fine and I'll stop considering it. But I didn't understand the reasoning about what tomorrow might bring as it relates to your health.

Well you or I may gain information as to whether we should have more or less trust for each other.. which could help you decide whether or not you want to help me and me decide whether or not I should accept that help. Someone may decide to kill me overnight, which would make the use of the potion a waste. Someone might actually find something labeled "antidote". Basically there's just more chance for all of us to have more info to go on.

[jeheinz72]

I'd agree on the fact that you might as well use the potion tomorrow instead...

[RendeR]

Current vote Count as of 5pm EST and post #382 (please correct me if I've mised anyone)

ntndeaon (1) - Chief Rum (228)
Oliegirl (3) - Alan T (309) Telle (320) Jeheinz72 (347)
Dodgerchick (1) - ntndeacon (280)

[Telle]

Current vote Count as of 5pm EST and post #382 (please correct me if I've mised anyone)

ntndeaon (1) - Chief Rum (228)
Oliegirl (3) - Alan T (309) Telle (320) Jeheinz72 (347)
Dodgerchick (2) - St. Cronin (271) ntndeacon (280)



Ummm... st.cronin/Tinkerbell is dead.

[RendeR]

Good Point! Corrected.

[hoopsguy]

I'd agree on the fact that you might as well use the potion tomorrow instead...

Except for the fact that, as I noted earlier, I'll be giving someone else the opportunity to make that decision.

[jeheinz72]

Except for the fact that, as I noted earlier, I'll be giving someone else the opportunity to make that decision.

True, so pass it to someone you think is smart and good! ;)

[hoopsguy]

RendeR, does the act of passing an item consume an action point?

I've already used on action today to determine if Mr. Wednesday is my ally (I've only got one ally, as far as I know). So I've got one left. Would I have to burn that action to pass my potion or would it be a zero point action (like moving) thus allowing me to search/spy/whatever?

[Alan T]

RendeR, does the act of passing an item consume an action point?

I've already used on action today to determine if Mr. Wednesday is my ally (I've only got one ally, as far as I know). So I've got one left. Would I have to burn that action to pass my potion or would it be a zero point action (like moving) thus allowing me to search/spy/whatever?

I asked Render about this earlier regarding an item I found. he said that passing an item did not count as one of my two actions.

[SnDvls]

vote dodgerchick

I'm about to head home. I think if Telle dies and turns up good I'm sure there is someone out there that can eliminate O-girl for us and this allows Dodger to semi-remain in the game...I feel it's the most fair....well except for Telle who might die. :(

[jeheinz72]

unvote oliegirl

vote dodgerchick

You may not be bad, i admit that, but there are bad people with a tail, so there is a chance.

Add into that the fact that the person I need to find doesn't have a tail, and you're the best option for me.

[Schmidty]

I just read everything. I have no idea who to vote for.

[Lorena]

Well, I found out some information and I'm not sure what to think of it. But someone sure does stink... real bad. So bad my eyes watered for quite a while. Bad guy/girl? Or good guy/girl? Hmm... no way to find out 'til later. Can you guys think of any characters that leave a stench behind?

I'm going out for a while and will probably return by deadline.

[path12]

If I have to decide between Dodgerchick (who may or may not have a tail) and Oliegirl (who actually poisoned someone) it's an easy decision.

VOTE OLIEGIRL

Very suspicious of DC voters.

[Lorena]

Well, I found out some information and I'm not sure what to think of it. But someone sure does stink... real bad. So bad my eyes watered for quite a while. Bad guy/girl? Or good guy/girl? Hmm... no way to find out 'til later. Can you guys think of any characters that leave a stench behind?

I'm going out for a while and will probably return by deadline.

Okay, I just re-read my PM and realized that this might not be the case and it has more to do with where I was... i swear... sometimes I need to think before I post. :mad:

[hoopsguy]

Well, I found out some information and I'm not sure what to think of it. But someone sure does stink... real bad. So bad my eyes watered for quite a while. Bad guy/girl? Or good guy/girl? Hmm... no way to find out 'til later. Can you guys think of any characters that leave a stench behind?

I'm going out for a while and will probably return by deadline.

First thought - oink, oink. Beyond that, I would have to take a look at the character list.

[hoopsguy]

If I have to decide between Dodgerchick (who may or may not have a tail) ....

Very suspicious of DC voters.

Cronin/Tinkerbelle stated she had a tail. Can you come up with a scenario where he would lie about this?

[Abe Sargent]

Well, I found out some information and I'm not sure what to think of it. But someone sure does stink... real bad. So bad my eyes watered for quite a while. Bad guy/girl? Or good guy/girl? Hmm... no way to find out 'til later. Can you guys think of any characters that leave a stench behind?

I'm going out for a while and will probably return by deadline.

This happened to me just now as well when spying on someone.

[Lorena]

shit, I just realized i won't be here for deadline

vote oliegirl

Self preservation vote obviously.

[Abe Sargent]

O don;t think DC is a bad guy because cronin turned up dead.

As a bad guy, I regularly look for opportunities to kill someone that will make people go after a villager. Killing cronin right after she slung at DC makes her look bad, ergo it is a good tactic to use.

On the other hamd, in this game, we have multiplae bad guys, so that strategy is not as useful and hte bad guys might mess up or be actiavelty hunting each other as well as us.

With that in mind, although nor,mally I would think this actually clears DC a tiny bit, I have to cinsider her a likely suspect.

I'd be happy to consider others if people would likew to propose alterantes, and I'm not even sure enought o vote yet, I'm just staing where I;m at right now.

[path12]

Cronin/Tinkerbelle stated she had a tail. Can you come up with a scenario where he would lie about this?

It was rhetorical more than a literal statement. What I meant more was regardless of whether she has a tail or not, OG poisoned someone.

To me it's like "hmmmm, we have a jaywalker that has a possiblilty of being a bank robber, and someone who I just saw mug somebody. Whoever should I go after first?"

[path12]

Dola, by she above I mean DC.

[Lorena]

Alright, I have a few more minutes since Ant is working late. I'm not sure if Anxiety and I saw the same person, or if we were in the same place... but we both smelled the same stench.

How comfortable do we feel about disclosing info on where we've gone?

[Barkeep49]

Characters with long tails:
3 Bind Mice (Inken, Blinken and Nod)
Dragon

Characters with short tails:
Pigs: Super Sow, Wilbur, Piglet(s)
Wolves: Big Bad, Den Mother, Tracker, Hunter, Pup(s)


Unless my math is particularly bad we're overwhelmingly looking, assuming the mice are bad, which seems like a fair conjecture, at DC being bad if she has a tail.

Vote DodgerChick

[Schmidty]

I actually think oliegirl's actions are way more suspicious, although I see the points against DC; however, I just don't feel good about the DC pile-on:

Vote oliegirl

[Mr. Wednesday]

Alright, I have a few more minutes since Ant is working late. I'm not sure if Anxiety and I saw the same person, or if we were in the same place... but we both smelled the same stench.
The natural assumption here is that the Bog of Eternal Stench is involved somehow or another. :)

[Mr. Wednesday]

Characters with long tails:
3 Bind Mice (Inken, Blinken and Nod)
Dragon

Characters with short tails:
Pigs: Super Sow, Wilbur, Piglet(s)
Wolves: Big Bad, Den Mother, Tracker, Hunter, Pup(s)


Unless my math is particularly bad we're overwhelmingly looking, assuming the mice are bad, which seems like a fair conjecture, at DC being bad if she has a tail.

Vote DodgerChick
Why are we assuming that the mice are bad?

[Barkeep49]

I actually think oliegirl's actions are way more suspicious, although I see the points against DC; however, I just don't feel good about the DC pile-on:

Vote oliegirl
I really think there is a far greater liklihood of a villager taking out another villager in this game than in most. And the definition of a villager is wacky anyway.

[Alan T]

Why are we assuming that the mice are bad?

The introduction storyline pretty much leads you to think that the mice are good. They tried to rally the people together after the pig roast, but people just laughed at them...

Render pretty much tells you there that the mice are good. (also following along in the Shrek story line, the mice are also good there too)..

Unless someone shows me otherwise, i assume the Mice are a "good" character.

[Barkeep49]

Why are we assuming that the mice are bad?

It's from this line in the rules:

Then blind Mice got all uppity and tried to rally people, but all they rallied was a huge round of laughter. What good could 3 blind mice do?

I'm kind of ambivalent about that line myself but I see where people are coming from. The math still holds, though less convincingly, if the 3 blind mice are good/neutral.

[Mr. Wednesday]

I dislike bandwagons on one person, and we seem inclined to let oliegirl go for the time being, so I'm going to go on the other person who has a vote and,
VOTE ntndeacon

CR's reasoning for him seems as good as any.

[Alan T]

It's from this line in the rules:



I'm kind of ambivalent about that line myself but I see where people are coming from. The math still holds, though less convincingly, if the 3 blind mice are good/neutral.

I interpret that line completely reversely. See my above post.

[Lorena]

*sigh* I won't be "dead" per se, but sucks that I won't be able to contribute to the discussions... all because of my tail... fuzzy, long, short, curly. Oh well... I guess I'll find out wht happens when I come back.

peace out

[Alan T]

*sigh* I won't be "dead" per se, but sucks that I won't be able to contribute to the discussions... all because of my tail... fuzzy, long, short, curly. Oh well... I guess I'll find out wht happens when I come back.

peace out

Well, not that my vote would do anything to save you , but I would think if facing the Bog, this is possibly the best time to possibly do some form of reveal for whomever you are trying to find for your team. There is always some possibility that one of the people voting for you actually is on your team and would move their vote, or perhaps if you truly are good, some other voters for you would rather take a chance on someone else.

The only downside i see is making it easier for someone who is looking for you to find you.. but like Render said, if you spend 1+ days in the bog its just as good as if you are dead when considering victory conditions.. this way at least you have a chance of being saved..

Unless of course you are evil and then not sure a reveal would help you alot :)

[Alan T]

Well, not that my vote would do anything to save you , but I would think if facing the Bog, this is possibly the best time to possibly do some form of reveal for whomever you are trying to find for your team. There is always some possibility that one of the people voting for you actually is on your team and would move their vote, or perhaps if you truly are good, some other voters for you would rather take a chance on someone else.

The only downside i see is making it easier for someone who is looking for you to find you.. but like Render said, if you spend 1+ days in the bog its just as good as if you are dead when considering victory conditions.. this way at least you have a chance of being saved..

Unless of course you are evil and then not sure a reveal would help you alot :)

Plus several people have stated they have ways to rescue folks from the swamp, if you don't give someone a reason to use such an item, I find it likely that they won't.

[Abe Sargent]

Characters with long tails:
3 Bind Mice (Inken, Blinken and Nod)
Dragon

Characters with short tails:
Pigs: Super Sow, Wilbur, Piglet(s)
Wolves: Big Bad, Den Mother, Tracker, Hunter, Pup(s)


Unless my math is particularly bad we're overwhelmingly looking, assuming the mice are bad, which seems like a fair conjecture, at DC being bad if she has a tail.

Vote DodgerChick

Didn;pt the mice have their tails cut off?

[Abe Sargent]

Three blind mice. Three blind mice.
See how they run. See how they run.
They all ran after the farmer's wife
Who cut off their tails with a carving knife.
Did you ever see such a thing in your life
As three blind mice?


Seems to me she can;t be a mouse either,a nd that resudes the pool significantly.

Vote Dodgerchick

[Barkeep49]

Didn;pt the mice have their tails cut off?
Yes. But I don't believe they did in the Shrek movies which seems to be their connection to this world, as I don't think of them as traditional fairy tale characters.

[Barkeep49]

BTW, I think DC has hinted pretty strongly which role she has. It's one that I don't care about, which is why my vote stays on her, but is nominally a "villager".

[Alan T]

BTW, I think DC has hinted pretty strongly which role she has. It's one that I don't care about, which is why my vote stays on her, but is nominally a "villager".

Ahh, I completely missed it then, but I scanned her as one of my actions today and like Hoops isn't one of my two friends, so I am pretty indifferent to save her myself or encourage anyone else to.

[oliegirl]

Ok, I'm here and will hopefully be able to convince you that I'm good.

Someone on a previous page asked if I would encourage someone to save Telle. Here's my take on it...if Telle is a good guy, then I clearly don't want her ousted from the game, in any way. I'll feel horrible that I caused her to leave by throwing the potion...however, it's not like I KNOWINGLY poisoned her. If RendeR had told me what the potion was, even if he had said something as vague as "it's side effects are negative", then I would have never used it on someone unless I knew for a fact they were bad.

Should you save Telle? Well, if you have the power to save her then that decision is yours. If Telle turns out to be bad, you are all going to be saying "woo hoo Olie, you got a bad guy". If someone saves her and she turns out to be bad in the long run, that person will likely be lynched as a result of his/her actions.

So the decision isn't up to me. I made my choice...I don't know if I'll regret it yet, it depends on how this all pans out. Now it's someone else's decision to make...if the potion had given us more information this would be easy, but it didn't so it's not.

[Alan T]

Ok, I'm here and will hopefully be able to convince you that I'm good.

Someone on a previous page asked if I would encourage someone to save Telle. Here's my take on it...if Telle is a good guy, then I clearly don't want her ousted from the game, in any way. I'll feel horrible that I caused her to leave by throwing the potion...however, it's not like I KNOWINGLY poisoned her. If RendeR had told me what the potion was, even if he had said something as vague as "it's side effects are negative", then I would have never used it on someone unless I knew for a fact they were bad.

Should you save Telle? Well, if you have the power to save her then that decision is yours. If Telle turns out to be bad, you are all going to be saying "woo hoo Olie, you got a bad guy". If someone saves her and she turns out to be bad in the long run, that person will likely be lynched as a result of his/her actions.

So the decision isn't up to me. I made my choice...I don't know if I'll regret it yet, it depends on how this all pans out. Now it's someone else's decision to make...if the potion had given us more information this would be easy, but it didn't so it's not.

I still don't think your story stands up very well. Your initial comment was that you thought she might be the dragon (for some unknown reason that you never did explain despite multiple people asking), thus leading us to believe that you thought Telle was bad for this unknown reason and thus took a shot at killing her with this potion.

Now you don't have a feel one way or another if Telle was bad, didn't know the potion was harmful and if you did you never would have thrown it...

Can't really have it both ways here, you either thought Telle was the dragon for this unknown reason and knowingly tried to kill her, thus will look like a hero if/when she dies and ends up the dragon, or be someone alot of people want to vote out if she dies and ends up good. Now you are backtracking some on your statement and appear to be hedging your bets.. you didn't know it was a dangerous potion, you don't know if she is good or bad... etc..

My take on this is you didn't think the action all the way through, you had an idea the potion was harmful (or outright knew it was poison), took a shot at killing Telle for some unknown reason and came up with the dragon story without having your full story set.

[Abe Sargent]

Yes. But I don't believe they did in the Shrek movies which seems to be their connection to this world, as I don't think of them as traditional fairy tale characters.

A few things:

1). I've never seen Shrek, nor do I ever have any desire to at all. Yuk.

2). I'd classify three blind mice as a fairy tale on its own, without needing a connection through anything.

[Schmidty]

1). I've never seen Shrek, nor do I ever have any desire to at all. Yuk.

ATTENTION!!!

PSEUDO-INTELLECTUAL CONTRARIAN ALERT!!!!!

I REPEAT!!!!!

PSEUDO-INTELLECTUAL CONTRARIAN ALERT!!!!!





;)

[Alan T]

I just realized that I guess we can rule out Schmidty being Shrek, or he would be typing in all capital Green letters and making me laugh hysterically by now :)

[Barkeep49]

I really like that rationale olie, despite it being a bit of a cop-out.

[Barkeep49]

Anxiety: 3 blind mice is a nursery rhyme not a fairy tale. That's why I've connected it to Shrek.

[hoopsguy]

OK, time to put my vote in, despite not knowing exactly where wer are in vote count. If she has a tail, she is clearly not my ally (barring a really weird plot twist, I suppose). Oliegirl may in fact be my ally - attrition is starting to shrink the number of candidates for this I suppose. So I'm basically acting to save a person I might need later in the game.

VOTE DODGERCHICK

[hoopsguy]

Dola - this logic is on top of the "characters with tails" and the likelihood of good/bad already demonstrated by others. It feels like we have a better shot here to get an adversary than with a blind draw.

[Abe Sargent]

Anxiety: 3 blind mice is a nursery rhyme not a fairy tale. That's why I've connected it to Shrek.

Cat and the Fiddle
Blackbirds
whatever, they are all connected to the same thing. Call it a fairy tale, call it a nursery rhytme if you prefre,r but it semes like they are all menat to be part of teh porrage of thise storyline. I wouldnt call Prinsess Bride the same a hthe others, but ey, thats what we have. Consider eth words by oru manager:

"Basically any Fairy tale Character, cute cartoon or Fantasy character COULD be in this game."

SO anything goes. No need to conneth them ot anything else, they survive on their own.

[Abe Sargent]

Dola - this logic is on top of the "characters with tails" and the likelihood of good/bad already demonstrated by others. It feels like we have a better shot here to get an adversary than with a blind draw.

blind. heh

[oliegirl]

I still don't think your story stands up very well. Your initial comment was that you thought she might be the dragon (for some unknown reason that you never did explain despite multiple people asking), thus leading us to believe that you thought Telle was bad for this unknown reason and thus took a shot at killing her with this potion.

Now you don't have a feel one way or another if Telle was bad, didn't know the potion was harmful and if you did you never would have thrown it...

Can't really have it both ways here, you either thought Telle was the dragon for this unknown reason and knowingly tried to kill her, thus will look like a hero if/when she dies and ends up the dragon, or be someone alot of people want to vote out if she dies and ends up good. Now you are backtracking some on your statement and appear to be hedging your bets.. you didn't know it was a dangerous potion, you don't know if she is good or bad... etc..

My take on this is you didn't think the action all the way through, you had an idea the potion was harmful (or outright knew it was poison), took a shot at killing Telle for some unknown reason and came up with the dragon story without having your full story set.

I said I THOUGHT she might be the dragon. And I made it very clear from my first post after throwing the potion, that I didn't know what it would do. I didn't throw it in hopes that it was poison, I threw it in hopes that it would either be some sort of a truth potion and give us information about her role one way or the other, or that it would be some sort of conversion potion and if she was bad, turn her good.

One of the options I had with the potion was to take it myself, so why would I assume/think/hope the potion was bad based on that one fact??? If you had an unknown liquid that the GM had said you could drink yourself, would you think it was poison? I've never heard of a suicide in WW, so it never even crossed my mind.

[hoopsguy]

Heh indeed. Nothing should be construed from that comment. I was not dropping any hints there. Nor, do I believe, have I given a suggestion about what my role is up to this point (for those who like to look for that kind of stuff).

[Barkeep49]

Olie: I'm in a similar boat. I have something which I don't know jack about. I'm guessing it's good, but I have no clue. Quite frustrating really. But the thing is I'm not hurling this unknown magical item at someone else cause if it is bad, I ought not to inflict that on others.

[Abe Sargent]

Heh indeed. Nothing should be construed from that comment. I was not dropping any hints there. Nor, do I believe, have I given a suggestion about what my role is up to this point (for those who like to look for that kind of stuff).

Come on hops, I am absolutely rubbish at reading and dropping hints, and even I got the blind comment.

[hoopsguy]

Olie, I agree with most of what you have said about potions since I had one and spent time pondering it. However, I did pay a decent amount of attention to the color of the potion when trying to construe what it might do. And "black" kind of screams bad things when looking through the lens of a fairy tale background.

Maybe it sounds like I'm saying this with the benefit of knowing what it does now ... fair enough. But I think if I was casting it at someone that I would be doing it with the idea of harming a bad guy, which it may still end up doing (TBD).

Did Telle do anything in particular to get your attention? Was there a post that caught your attention? A particular vibe? Just trying to figure out why you targeted that particular player ...

[RendeR]

Vote Update:

2 ntndeaon -- Chief Rum (228) Mr. Wednesday (411)
5 Oliegirl -- Alan T (309) Telle (320) path12 (394) Dodgerchick (399) Schmidty (405)
5 Dodgerchick -- ntndeacon (280) SnDvls (390) Jeheinz72 (391) Barkeep (404) Anxiety (417)

[hoopsguy]

Come on hops, I am absolutely rubbish at reading and dropping hints, and even I got the blind comment.

Which is why I replied to it - every once in awhile a word is just a word and not a hint. This is one of those times.


(best Nixon voice) I AM NOT A MOUSE!


I'm dying to give a hint here to my actual role, but the one I want to leave is a little too obvious. So I'll see if I can work one in tomorrow if I'm left alive and still not lined up with my ally.

[oliegirl]

Self Preservation vote to break the tie...

VOTE DODGERCHICK

[oliegirl]

Olie, I agree with most of what you have said about potions since I had one and spent time pondering it. However, I did pay a decent amount of attention to the color of the potion when trying to construe what it might do. And "black" kind of screams bad things when looking through the lens of a fairy tale background.

Maybe it sounds like I'm saying this with the benefit of knowing what it does now ... fair enough. But I think if I was casting it at someone that I would be doing it with the idea of harming a bad guy, which it may still end up doing (TBD).

Did Telle do anything in particular to get your attention? Was there a post that caught your attention? A particular vibe? Just trying to figure out why you targeted that particular player ...

Hindsight is 20/20, you are right. Yeah, it was black...which is why I only threw it at her and didn't give it to her and force her to drink it, which was an option - I asked RendeR specifically about that. I'm assuming at this point that her drinking it would immediately kill her instead of just ailing her.

It wasn't any one specific thing she said, more just the vagueness of her posts at a time when a number of people were openly giving information. Not necessarily revealing, but laying out what their victory conditions were and whatnot. I can't point to one post, all I can say is that in the scenario I had in my head, who was who and all that, she fit as the Dragon.

[Alan T]

This is the point of a WW game where I become overly fixated with my hunch and everything that a person I am suspicious of posts just screams wolf to me, and then suddenly several people's posts that seem to inexplainably defend that person begin to draw lines together and by the end of day 2 I feel I know who all of the bad guys are...

Fast forward 3 days later and I find I've pushed for the elimination of various allies or innocent bystanders.

[hoopsguy]

Alan, I agree that this vote has a lot of potential to be interesting. But unlike most games, it will take awhile to hunt down what the heck is going on with the vote movement.

I'm up for suggestions for how we can act on the results of this vote tomorrow if you have post-deadline thoughts on the matter.

[RendeR]

Deadline, info to follow

[Alan T]

Alan, I agree that this vote has a lot of potential to be interesting. But unlike most games, it will take awhile to hunt down what the heck is going on with the vote movement.

I'm up for suggestions for how we can act on the results of this vote tomorrow if you have post-deadline thoughts on the matter.

I don't think there is anything much we can learn from the votes as the person is sent to the bog without any form of reveal. Like I said before that this is likely the best time for a reveal if the person is a good character in order to be saved, and am a bit troubled that two things happened:

1) a few votes savevd Oliegirl close to the lynch,
2) Oliegirl felt pretty confident in her safety that she didn't have a need for a reveal of any form.

I am more interested in seeing if there is another night kill or if the kill of Cronin and attack on Telle is the extent of today's activities of malice intent.

[Barkeep49]

Yeah voting someone to the bog is of limited value at this point because we don't get their death.

[Barkeep49]

Yeah voting someone to the bog is of limited value at this point because we don't get their death.
That thought almost makes me regret my vote on DC as OG's willingness to go it alone seems more like a personal threat to my continued safety than DC potentially being a part of an opposing faction.

[Barkeep49]

Key word there being almost. I like sending bad guys away :)

[RendeR]

Final Vote Count, day 2

2 - ntndeaon - Chief Rum (228) Mr. Wednesday (411)
5 - Oliegirl - Alan T (309) Telle (320) path12 (394) Dodgerchick (399) Schmidty (405)
6 - Dodgerchick - ntndeacon (280) SnDvls (390) Jeheinz72 (391) Barkeep (404) Anxiety (417) Oliegirl (440)



Accusations fly back and forth as you all gather together to discuss the so-called Tail-gate and figure out wtf is going on and who killed Little red Riding Whore...err hood...


DC and Olie take lashings back and forth as tail-dragging comments fly all around. dragons Wolves, mice, pigs...gah, so many freaks. Finally it is settle when Olie casts her vote to save her own ass, err butt...or something.

The city guard comes and drags Dodgerchick kicking and squirming away to be lost in the Bog of Eternal Stench!!!


The night slips by quietly for a change amid the croaks of giant frongs and the crunch of humpty Dumpty's shell cracking open for the hundreth time.


day 2 is ended, day 3 has begun!

[hoopsguy]

Well, I have some information on Telle. I'm quite certain she is not a wolf, if that helps anyone make their decision.

She is not the droid I'm looking for, but I have no reason to believe that she is furry. I followed her because I wanted to have more information to help us make a decision on her between now and noon tomorrow.

However, I had also followed Mr. W yesterday and learned nothing at all about him. Have other people used the "spy" option so far this game and gotten meaningful results? I'm trying, in light of learning something about Telle, to determine how concerned I should be to learn nothing about Mr. Wednesday on Day 1.

[hoopsguy]

RendeR, what happens to DaddyTorgo at this point?

[Alan T]

Well, it worked so well yesterday, so I'll try it again.. second verse.. same as the first

Vote oliegirl

[Barkeep49]

hoops: I have considered the spy action but have not used it yet.

[RendeR]

RendeR, what happens to DaddyTorgo at this point?


Nothing in particular. Should something happen to him?

[RendeR]

Ok, I'll apologize for being a goof there:

Players don't go away forever unless you kill them.

The 24 hour thing in the bog is to determine a victory. If a team has done all of their other requirements and the last one is "eliminating" someone then they are considered to have won if that someone is not released from the bog within 24 hours of that team completing all of their other requirements.

Does that help?

[RendeR]

There is a loud HOOOWWWWWWWLllll from the Bog! and Sounds of battle. Everyone runs in hoping to see whats happened.

There on the ground lies Dodgerchick. She was obviously one of the wolves. Fur and teeth and bits of bone lie in a bloody pulped up heap.

Someone beat her to death with their bare hands!

As you look around you gasp in horror as you see Barkeep standing there, covered in blood from head to toe.

[Barkeep49]

Not sure if people will believe me, but I'm the one who killed DC :).

[Lorena]

.

[Abe Sargent]

Not sure if people will believe me, but I'm the one who killed DC :).

I don;t know

[Alan T]

lol

[hoopsguy]

Thanks for figuring out the whole "DC has a tail" mystery, BK.

[Barkeep49]

Thanks for figuring out the whole "DC has a tail" mystery, BK.
I just felt we needed information about the close vote yesterday. I think we've got some good info now :).

[hoopsguy]

Upon further review, I'm pretty confident that I can name Telle's role exactly. But I don't see any strategic advantage for me in doing so, unless it is to be underhanded and try to provide additional targets for the wolves. So I'll hold off on doing so, but will vouch for her as a non-wolf.

Just putting that out there in case someone who has an antidote feels like saving her.

[hoopsguy]

Additional = more specific

[oliegirl]

Wow...didn't see that coming. Good call BK.

What do we think about formulating a plan for tomorrow? Actually having a strategy instead of just randomly going off on our own and attacking people? Yes..I know, the irony after my attack on Telle today, but I'm trying to figure out how to win the game, we need to work together rather than apart.

I followed Telle tonight, I didn't find out anything regarding her affiliations, except she is not a wolf. I saw her being attacked, but it looked as if she had fought off her attacker as I saw her holding some sort of sword and the wolf was on the ground..."flailing" was the word that was used. I also found a potion...it's pearlescent and kind of a greenish color.

[Thomkal]

yay good fairy tale people!

[Mr. Wednesday]

Well done, Barkeep!

[Schmidty]

Nice!!

[Chief Rum]

Okay, I don't seem to be dead, so I must have been skipped with actions. Hopefully Render will come back and remedy this. Regardless, I can't put in new actions until I know what happened with my last ones. Fortunately, not working tomorrow night. So I will be able to come back and post before deadline. It will be tight, though. I will have maybe an hour to catch up, assess my actions and put in new ones.

Way to go, Barkeep, BTW.

[hoopsguy]

I followed Telle tonight, I didn't find out anything regarding her affiliations, except she is not a wolf. I saw her being attacked, but it looked as if she had fought off her attacker as I saw her holding some sort of sword and the wolf was on the ground..."

This is inconsistent with the information that I learned when I followed her yesterday. Or, at least my interpretation of it. I'm hoping Telle can help us clear things up a little bit.

[Lorena]

Okay, I got over my anger from last night.

That's twice you've screwed me cronin. First you take my recruit and now this ;) :p Just you wait... just you wait :)

[Barkeep49]

So I killed DC in hopes of gaining some clarity about last night's close vote. What are the odds that people think olie is also a wolf? If so, I think it's clear that make Mr. W the last wolf, for placing a vote on a 3rd party later in the day after the relevant info was out there. If olie is clean I think we'd have to assume that there are wolves amongst olie's voters.

At this point my analysis sort of breaks down. I am not sure, frankly, if I want to kill all the wolves and settle for a minor victory when I have the chance at my normal victory.

[jeheinz72]

Wow, nice one BK. Very clutch.

I'll echo the sentiments that there must be wolves in the line of olie voters.

Did everyone vote yesterday? We seemed short (but I haven't had time to go and look)

[Alan T]

So I killed DC in hopes of gaining some clarity about last night's close vote. What are the odds that people think olie is also a wolf? If so, I think it's clear that make Mr. W the last wolf, for placing a vote on a 3rd party later in the day after the relevant info was out there. If olie is clean I think we'd have to assume that there are wolves amongst olie's voters.

At this point my analysis sort of breaks down. I am not sure, frankly, if I want to kill all the wolves and settle for a minor victory when I have the chance at my normal victory.

I don't know that I agree about the Mr.W part, simply because that seems too obvious to me..It is pretty clear that the following are true:

1) voting someone or not voting someone tells us nothing about the player
2) you can get a player back from the bog via various means
3) there might be "bad guys" with opposing victory conditions just like there are good guys with opposing victory conditions.

I think that a teammate of DC could easily have hid in the olie voters with the idea that if DC was voted off, no one would still know she was a wolf, and it wouldn't look bad for them just yet..

That said, I still am voting Oliegirl today, her story does not stand up at all to me and now you mean to tell me that she chose to first throw a potion at Telle, then afterwards when Telle is expected to die she chose to follow her to see what she was up to? That seem backwards to anyone else? If Telle is poisoned, why do you care what she is up to? She is going to die and you will find out her role soon enough right? I can understand why Hoops would follow her, he says he has a potion that may or may not save Telle, perhaps he was trying to see if Telle was worth saving (if his potion could even save her) by seeing if she was a teammate or not.. but Oliegirl's actions? They just scream off to me.

That and the discrepency between what Hoops saw and Telle saw, I still find Oliegirl lying or telling half truths here. She may be another wolf, she might be some other bad guy not allied with the wolves, I don't know.. but her action sequence is broken to me, and that is where my vote is staying.

[Telle]

I was attacked last night, by DaddyTorgo and saw quite clearly that he was a wolf. Although I'm not sure how since wasn't he locked away in the bog? I'm guessing one of his wolf buddies sprung him.

Also, I have been passed a potion by someone I feel some level of trust for. I used it and am now cured.

[jeheinz72]

Wow, so people can get out of the bog without us knowing? Hrm.

[Telle]

Wow, so people can get out of the bog without us knowing? Hrm.

Yeah and does kind of make Hoops's question about "What happened with DaddyTorgo" a little suspect.

[Alan T]

Yeah and does kind of make Hoops's question about "What happened with DaddyTorgo" a little suspect.

Well, Hoopsguy is one of the ones I felt was protecting Olie yesterday before we found out what happened with DC today. But if DT is a wolf, I would -assume- he and DC were working together so that would mean to me that both Olie and Hoops likely wouldn't be a wolf... I still think Olie's story stinks, but you saw DT attack you.

Render, is DT votable today? Ie: is he out of the bog again and can be voted for? If so, I assume this means we are not notified when people are freed from the bog?

[Barkeep49]

Telle, stupid question perhaps, but you weren't in the bog last night were you?

[Telle]

Nope, I was in the mines.

[Alan T]

Telle, for clarification when you saw that DT was a wolf, do you mean Wolf in the traditional WW sense of being a bad guy, or actually quite literally is a wolf like DC was?

I went back assuming he actually is a wolf wolf with the assumption that all wolves know each other and are working together (which may not be the case here, but who knows)..

Final Night 1 vote Count:

Telle (1) - Chief Rum(73)
Alan T (1) - Passacaglia(118)
Hoopsguy (2) - Schmidty(132) St. Cronin(185)
Barkeep49 (1) - Anxiety(134)
St Cronin (3) - Thomkal(181) Oliegirl(191) Hoopsguy(196)
Chief Rum (3) - Telle(144) Jeheinz72(150) NtnDeacon(160)
Sebastian0622 (7) - Alan T(153) barkeep49(166) SnDvls(171) path12(135) Dodgerchick(151) Mr.Wednesday(187) PurdueBrad(188)


Final Vote Count, day 2

2 - ntndeaon - Chief Rum (228) Mr. Wednesday (411)
5 - Oliegirl - Alan T (309) Telle (320) path12 (394) Dodgerchick (399) Schmidty (405)
6 - Dodgerchick - ntndeacon (280) SnDvls (390) Jeheinz72 (391) Barkeep (404) Anxiety (417) Oliegirl (440)


The interesting thing is DC was the one that broke the tie between Chief Rum and Sebastian (Now DT) by voting for DT which started the inevitable run on him that got him lynched.

Only people of note from that list is Schmidty was the only olie voter that did not vote for Sebastian..and Chief Rum is the only other person who has not voted for either DC or DT (sebastian) between the two days.

Only other thing of note I saw was that DC had initially voted for Jeheinz72 before she moved it, and Jeheinz72 was also the one trying to protect Sebastian long enough for him to show up..

Not sure what I get out of all of that other than the uncertainty that the wolves actually know who each other are.

[Telle]

He was physically a wolf. I saw a furry tail and teeth.. and had a line stating "DT is a wolf."

And I don't think the votes mean all that much.. I'm guessing that since the wolves knew they could spring one of their own from the bog that they didn't worry about Sebastian/DT being lynched and may have even voted for him to gain trust.

[RendeR]

You all hear a blood curdling scream from the enchanted castle. upon arriving there you smell something rancid and find a half melted body surrounded by shards of glass. one shard has a label named "acid".

Someone has killed PurdueBrad! He was the Evil mastermind!

[Telle]

Wow.. good job whoever did that!

[Alan T]

I guess the evil mastermind's evil plot was to lay low and completely not vote yesterday at all! I guess that is why he is the evil mastermind and I am not! :)

[RendeR]

Ok folks. I've PM'ed everyone back that needed it so far today. Everything should be caught up at this point.

Children are blessings, but today I think i'd rather be cursed...or maybe I am today..I dunno. I'll be in and out whle I deal with my two RendeRlings.

[Passacaglia]

All right -- which one of you bitches blew up the Enchanted Castle?

[hoopsguy]

OK, part of the reason that I was "protecting" Oliegirl last night is that I thought she might be my ally. Her descriptions, and stated goals, lined up fairly well with what I expected the goals to be for my ally. So I didn't want her getting banished to the bog last night before I could check her out this morning.

Well, my results from this AM are in - wanted to know before we learned one way or the other on Telle (which it turns out we won't) - and Oliegirl is not my ally.

Alan, for what it is worth I agree with your questions about OG's motivation in throwing the potion at Telle, without being able to provide a good reason for selecting her. And I'm surprised at the discrepancies around Telle in terms of us both following her. Is it enough to put the vote there today? Probably not if we believe that DT is a wolf.

Telle, why do you think that DT would have put out the word "Save Telle" from the bog as a wolf? I had pretty much assumed that he was your ally - this seems very odd to me.

[RendeR]

While in the Enchanted castle You also find ntndeacon fast asleep on the floor. Nothing you do seems to wake him.

[hoopsguy]

Also, I would appreciate it if my ally would seek me out if they are able to do so. Because I clearly suck at finding them. That is all, thanks.

[Passacaglia]

While in the Enchanted castle You also find ntndeacon fast asleep on the floor. Nothing you do seems to wake him.


AND WHAT DID YOU DO TO NTNDEACON!?!!? WTF

[Passacaglia]

But seriously -- is everyone checking out the Enchanted Castle now, or what?

[Telle]

I have no idea why DT would have tried to get people to save me. Maybe to try and gain trust.

[Telle]

But seriously -- is everyone checking out the Enchanted Castle now, or what?

I haven't been there since Day 1. Seems like a lot's going on there today though!

[Barkeep49]

But seriously -- is everyone checking out the Enchanted Castle now, or what?
I think revealing our locations is somewhat dangerous. People obviously know I was in the bog today but I am keeping ot myself whether I moved there today or yesterday. I want to keep my whereabout somewhat unknown in hopes it makes it harder to knock me off.

[Passacaglia]

I think revealing our locations is somewhat dangerous. People obviously know I was in the bog today but I am keeping ot myself whether I moved there today or yesterday. I want to keep my whereabout somewhat unknown in hopes it makes it harder to knock me off.

I was just trying to figure out RendeR's post. It sounds like we were all in the Enchanted Castle, doesn't it?

[Telle]

Well he said we all ran there. But we certainly don't have to stick around.

[RendeR]

I was just trying to figure out RendeR's post. It sounds like we were all in the Enchanted Castle, doesn't it?



When something major happens I make it out that everyone congregates to see the big news, they then return to their chosen areas afterward. So for the few moments it took veryone to see Purduebrad's half melted bloody gurgling stinky mass....yeah, you were all together.

[Passacaglia]

Got it. Well anyway, y'all figured out that I was in the Castle. Right around the time that cronin was offed, those of us in the Castle (me, PB, and ntn) were kinda stuck in there, unable to act or vote or anything until noon. But whoever killed PB made things weirder -- I was cured by Miracle Max, and ntn is I guess still stuck until noon.

[hoopsguy]

OK, my list of non-allies is growing at a rapid rate. Clearly I'm not very close to winning this game.

Not allies - Chief Rum, Alan (based on him checking me out), Telle, SnDvls, Barkeep, and Oliegirl.

In addition to needing to find my ally, I have a couple of other conditions I need to meet to win. I'm basically at a point where I'm waiving the white flag on being the overall winning team. So, I guess from here on out I'm going to try and get wolves, as well as be willing to offer help to teams that feel like they are close to winning if I'm capable of doing so.

[hoopsguy]

Telle, if you know that DT is a wolf then why aren't you voting for him at this point? Is there some other motivation that you have right now besides catching wolves?

I'm waiting to hear what he has to say about the events of the last couple of days, but your statements coupled with those by Oliegirl seem to have him pretty boxed in.