WW LXVI: Money Money Money (Game Over!)

[mauchow]

I don't understand what Chief Rum has to do with any of this..:confused:

Thought he was GM, I forgot already.

[Mr. Wednesday]

I need to put in my actions to redistribute my $$ now. I'm still wandering around with my cash I gained from voting.
That is an, um, interesting thing to be announcing in-thread.

[hoopsguy]

Guess the Swaggs example does apply. Carry on.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Looks like 496 is the answer to the bankruptcy question.

[Alan T]

Alan, I'm not sure the Swaggs example applies as he never named a beneficiary on Night 0.

well it applied only because I remembered the answer was directed towards answering it generally and not specifically to swaggs. I don't remember the exact answer, but it was something like bankrupting them removes all of their money from the game. So it applied to both Swaggs and whomever gets voted here.

[mauchow]

Because I don't believe either of my votes to be wolves, I'm going to just let myself die and get over with this one. LOL

vote sndvls

[saldana]

mauboy, how is DT going to get 6500 from you?

[Barkeep49]

As of 506

Hoops – Chief (276)
Chief Rum – Alan (374), Mr. Wednesday (490)
Mauboy – Sndvls (388). Saldana (401), tyrith(411), clap (419), daddy t(473)
Sndvls – Pass (394), mauboy (396), mau (506)
Clap – path(406), The Jackal (417)
Saldana – Schmidty (414), hoopsguy (428), mau (487), mau (498)

[Alan T]

how is that going to happen


Don't ask me, ask Chief Rum, my pm says 46,500. DaddyT is going to get $6,500 from me.


Its starting to feel like a setup to try to throw suspicion on DaddyTorgo if Mauboy ends up a wolf at lynch.

[saldana]

anyone have a count

[mauchow]

And just in case I miraculously stay alive, I'll hold onto my final $16,500. YES, it's $16,500, SALDANA. I don't care what you say to me, my PM says what it says.

[mauchow]

Don't worry, I'm not a wolf. Good luck, guys.

[SnDvls]

yes I voted Mr. W

Daddy T did vote day one...the confusion is that Barkeep still has yet to list that he voted in the day 1 recap.

[mauchow]

mauboy, how is DT going to get 6500 from you?

I was basically just playing it safe just in case money after being lynched went to the beneficiary.

[saldana]

And just in case I miraculously stay alive, I'll hold onto my final $16,500. YES, it's $16,500, SALDANA. I don't care what you say to me, my PM says what it says.

yippie for you, you will forgive me if i dont take you at your word

vote mauboy1

[claphamsa]

Don't worry, I'm not a wolf. Good luck, guys.
wait... why did you vote liek that you coulda made it a tie....

[mauchow]

yippie for you, you will forgive me if i dont take you at your word

vote mauboy1

My goodness, dude. If you're a rich person why did you just waste money with a vote on me. I just kept you alive by not voting for you again. Blah, man.

[hoopsguy]

Its starting to feel like a setup to try to throw suspicion on DaddyTorgo if Mauboy ends up a wolf at lynch.

Or the moderator, Chief Rum. :eek:

I was sure reading along last game that Mauboy was a good guy making bad plays. I think that is the case again here, but I'm less sure this time because Saldana is right with the math.

[SnDvls]

why not pass your money in thread prior to lynch if you aren't going to save yourself?

[mauchow]

wait... why did you vote liek that you coulda made it a tie....

Because I've got no money left, so I'm not worth as much as another rich person, which I believe Saldana to be. *shrug*

[mauchow]

why not pass your money in thread prior to lynch if you aren't going to save yourself?

Who am I suppose to pass my money too?

PASS $6,500 to HOOPS PLEASE

[Mr. Wednesday]

My goodness, dude. If you're a rich person why did you just waste money with a vote on me. I just kept you alive by not voting for you again. Blah, man.
I don't think he'd voted yet, which would necessitate casting a vote to earn his $15,000 salary.

[DaddyTorgo]

interesting.

as much as anyone believes anyone in these games (especially in this one with bribes) let me say this: I am not a cutthroat at the moment, and was not one at the start of the game. I was simply "rich" and I have not been bribed.

[DaddyTorgo]

mauboy...blue it and bold it

[Alan T]

I don't think he'd voted yet, which would necessitate casting a vote to earn his $15,000 salary.

I don't believe that this is the correct answer. :)

[mauchow]

I didn't believe I have enough to go on to pass all my money to one person. I guess I could have split all my money up though, and that is my mistake. Anyways, good luck guys.

MAU passes Remaining money to Hoops, $6,500

[Mr. Wednesday]

There's lots of stuff to keep up with since the last official count, so it's certainly possible that I was mistaken.

[hoopsguy]

There must be some kind of karma, pay-it-forward thing going on when I gift 6K and see 6.5K come back at the end of the day. Funny stuff.

[mauchow]

I don't believe that this is the correct answer. :)

You are correct, I wouldn't be surprised now if Saldana is a wolf for that reason alone. Protecting himself JUST in case someone else voted him to tie it up. Interesting.

[saldana]

Who am I suppose to pass my money too?

PASS $6,500 to HOOPS PLEASE

why not the other 10k

[mauchow]

ALL REMAINING MONEY OF MINE TO HOOPS

[claphamsa]

do we know when daybreak is?

[mauchow]

I don't even know where I'm at with all my money at the moment. Sorry.

[saldana]

I don't believe that this is the correct answer. :)

no it isnt...i paid for the second vote, because Mauboy was alledging that he still had 16k....he voted four times, so one free plus 30k left him with enough to tie it at the last second...i made sure he didnt do that.

[SnDvls]

why not the other 10k

he voted 4 times

2 for both of us

[mauchow]

Saldana is correct, I did have an extra 10k still. Good luck guys! Another rich person bites the dust. Woohoo!

[Alan T]

There must be some kind of karma, pay-it-forward thing going on when I gift 6K and see 6.5K come back at the end of the day. Funny stuff.

Hoopsguy, is this you??

http://ia.imdb.com/media/imdb/01/M/3U/jM/yY/jN/wY/TZ/tF/kX/nB/na/B5/lM/B5/VO/5Q/TM/zU/jN/xY/TM/B5/VM._CR79,0,317,317_SS90_.jpg

[Barkeep49]

What kind of name is Mauboy Industries? It's a hard to pronounce one, that's for sure. You'd rather hire someone to pronounce a name like that for you. Or make the name go away. Sure he was just a rich guy. But now you have one less stress.

Word circulates the services were bought for the following amounts:
Friend: $51
Private Investigator: $25000
Bodyguard: $2500
Telecom: $21,455

Final Vote Count:

Hoops – Chief (276)
Chief Rum – Alan (374), Mr. Wednesday (490)
Mauboy – Sndvls (388). Saldana (401), tyrith(411), clap (419), daddy t(473), saldana (515)
Sndvls – Pass (394), mauboy (396), mau (506)
Clap – path(406), The Jackal (417)
Saldana – Schmidty (414), hoopsguy (428), mau (487), mau (498)

And, for the record: 30,000*1.05=31,500+15,000=46,500

Night PMs coming out shortly

[SnDvls]

barkeep can you update day 1 vote (post # 251) showing Daddy T's vote so we can finally drop the confusion we've been having

thanks

[mauchow]

And, for the record: 30,000*1.05=31,500+15,000=46,500


PwnD! Hah!

[hoopsguy]

Wow, cost of PI certainly jumped from day to day.

[saldana]

PwnD! Hah!

you couldnt do the math either there, mr hawking.:rolleyes:

[RendeR]

VOTE MAUBOY


damn work interfered...

[RendeR]

shit

[Lathum]

you couldnt do the math either there, mr hawking.:rolleyes:

lol

[hoopsguy]

Good news! We didn't kill off my beneficiary for 2nd straight day!

Mau, based on the last two games you certainly do make it interesting on the way out.

[SnDvls]

My plan for deadlines are 10 PM Eastern for Day and 7 or 8 AM Eastern for Night. I will, however, accept conditional votes for those for whom that would make a difference.



day & night cycles

[claphamsa]

yeah, I was disapointed.... he makes a good death scene...

[claphamsa]

day & night cycles
thanks... wish it were 8 and not 7.

[mauchow]

The first time around was my fault, in this game I just got votes on me while I was gone. All I did was make a second vote, I guess that's warranted, but c'mon, I didn't do anything wrong when it was already too late. LOL

I didn't even try to do the math, Saldana, I just looked at the PM, wasn't in the mood for math for the moment

[SnDvls]

thanks... wish it were 8 and not 7.

it does say 7 or 8

[claphamsa]

Well I hope its 8 :)

[claphamsa]

well gnight all....

[Barkeep49]

thanks... wish it were 8 and not 7.
Once we have a few less players, meaning I can process the night cycle more quickly, it'll go to 8. As it is now I need to leave more time for me to get to work.

[Barkeep49]

PMs have been sent. Please remember that it does NOT include any money you have tied up in CDs. Merely what you have available to your on Night 2/Day 3

[hoopsguy]

For whoever has the seer, here are some suggestions:
1.) Live through the night
2.) I understand if you want to scan me, but I would like to see Saldana or Tyrith scanned. Saldana would let us know if there was any real pressure on the wolves today and is probably the "right" choice in my mind. It would help provide some clarity tomorrow, either by revealing a wolf or telling us not to rely too heavily on today's voting patterns.

[path12]

christina aguilera?

Really?? I took a quick look this morning but I was at work but I could have sworn that lady was around 40. I'll have to check again.

[path12]

Reaaalllyyy....

Considering I KNOW I'm not a wolf, I'm going to be double, triple, quadruple voting tonight. I've got 46k right now.

Where'd the extra grand come from?

[Alan T]

Boy, won't Path feel silly once he catches up? :)

[path12]

Boy, won't Path feel silly once he catches up? :)

I spend the better part of my life feeling rather silly. I'm getting used to it though.

[path12]

Weird deadline, no? I thought Mau had a chance to off saldana until he switched to SnDvls. Props on the exit routines though.

[path12]

I'll be damned. That was Xtina. My bad.

[Tyrith]

Bleh. That's what I have to say about the vote.

I have no objections to a scan, and objecting to a scan would be a really silly idea, anyway. The alternative solution is to scan hoops and see if we can trust his recommendations, although that would probably be personally bad for me because there's a slight chance he comes after me tomorrow, although saldana seems more likely -- and his logic on saldana is sound. If he's going to be the main voice we follow for this game I'd just like to know if we can trust it, although 25k is a lot of money to pay for that privilege.

[Tyrith]

The reality of this game just hit me. This game is a lot more simple than I thought. I'm going to wait until tomorrow morning to say what I'm thinking, but if we play smart I think this game shouldn't be too hard.

[Chief Rum]

Regarding formatting my PM correctly, I actually didn't format it correctly, but Barkeep responded back saying that he would take it that time just in the future to please format it with the service and amount in the title.

That sucks. I was the one who didn't format correctly--because I sent it in with my Night 0 post, which is full of actions Barkeep did take into consideration. You would think he wouldn't ignore this one.

I was fine with his decision until I saw this. That sucks. So I guess some guys get a pass, and others no, huh? I am of half a mind to just leave this game right now. :mad:

[Chief Rum]

It's about time for me to get out of here for a few hours, possibly until after deadline. It appears we won't have any seer reveals today, so I'm just left with my gut instinct.

Chief seemed to jump in the middle of a fray that he wasn't really involved with yesterday to target Hoops pretty hard. Then at night Lathum (who was also questioning Hoops yesterday) was night killed, followed by Chief's follow up vote on Hoops just for a funny feel before night results were up.

I fully understand Chief had to vote because of his job at the time he did, but a few things about what happened last night nagged at me a bit, so I'll go in Chief's direction with a vote today. Nothing really solid, just playing off of a gut feeling.

Vote Chief Rum

I know it's just a gut feeling, so I don't take anything from this. But I didn't "jump" into anything. I wasn't taking any other post into consideration except hoops' post. In fact, I don't think I had even finished reading the thread when I posted my first thoughts on hoops' post about warning wolves to not bid on him.

My follow up was, as you say, because of my need to put in an early vote, and because I didn't learn anything to dissuade me from Day One vote.

[Chief Rum]

Don't ask me, ask Chief Rum, my pm says 46,500. DaddyT is going to get $6,500 from me.

Exsqueeze me? :confused:

[Chief Rum]

The question is "why Lathum" for the Night 1 kill?
- did they see something suggesting he won the seer?
- did they see him as a threat going into Day 2?
- did they think that killing him would set up a chain reaction that was beneficial to them?
- did they think that they would profit directly from his death, via beneficiary?

I don't know the answer to this, but I'm leaning towards voting Saldana right now working on the "presumed beneficiary/get money" strategy.

Look, I'm not saying I am even convinced one way or another on hoops, and I think it's very likely I am barking up the wrong tree.

All that said, did it not occur to anyone that hoops' theory of Lathum winning the seer would be a very convenient way to hide that the wolves may have won the seer? How would one hide that the wolves won the seer when we're encouraging "friendly" seers to come out? Well, by suggesting that the night kill won the seer, of course. And especially if that person named you as his beneficiary, thus allowing you to "fudge" the numbers all you want with impunity.

Moving past this for a second--I think there was little reason Lathum was targeted on Night One except for probably the most common reason good veteran players are killed on Night One--they are usually dangerous enemies to keep around. Lathum was a veteran target--that's my guess anyway.

[Chief Rum]

BTW, I will be around tomorrow evening for the deadline, so I will not need to vote early (although, of course, I won't be around most of the day, as I will be at work).

[Chief Rum]

Enough people have checked in by now for me to share this info, I suppose.

I think that Lathum won the seer last night. I could say more, but I would have to go into some details about my inherit PM to do so and I don't think there is a ton of value in doing so.

I was hoping that this wasn't the case and that someone was going to come forward with seer info, forcing me to re-evaluate the numbers. But at this point I'm basically operating under the idea that we aren't going to have any further seer info to help with our choice today.

Oh, I quoted the wrong post two posts above. This was the post I was referring to--hoops' theory for why the seer-winner from Night One didn't come forward.

[DaddyTorgo]

The reality of this game just hit me. This game is a lot more simple than I thought. I'm going to wait until tomorrow morning to say what I'm thinking, but if we play smart I think this game shouldn't be too hard.

:confused:

:eek:

:D

[claphamsa]

I am also intersted in seeing this....

[Barkeep49]

Today the latest among you to die is saldana. Saldana was Rich. Is he still Rich, even though he's dead? That seems like a question for a philosopher. You make a note to endow a chair at a university so you can get an answer. You need no professor to tell you that his beneficiary is Mr. Wednesday

Today's services:
Friend at the Bank: Learn amounts all players have in the bank
Bodyguard Firm: May choose 1 player to be protected from attacks. May be used any night.
Private Investigator: Will learn the side (Cutthroat or Rich) of a player on each of two nights. Must be used night 3 & 4.
Thief: May choose to rob a player’s on hand OR Bank Account. May be used any night, but is not given to your beneficiary upon death.

[hoopsguy]

Interesting night kill. They knew he had less money than the norm, based on him spending an extra 10K to put in a vote. It also tells us that the vote yesterday sucked, even without the benefit of a seer scan.

[Schmidty]

Well, that freaking sucks. I just wasted $25,000 on scanning saldana at hoops suggestion, and now he's dead. I do not like that ONE BIT. I feel like I was railroaded, and as I said before, even if he wasn't already a wolf, there's a darned good chance he is now.


VOTE HOOPSGUY

[Schmidty]

Sorry, that was a bit of an emotional vote, but hate the idea of getting mind-fucked, and it pisses me off if true.

[hoopsguy]

Schmidty, I'm a smidge surprised that I'm not a wolf at this point. Because I've got a pile of money on my hands. I put in a 20K bid yesterday on the Telecomm, figuring that I either win it or they have to go high to take it from me. They did. I had money that matured last night so I'm sitting on a healthy amount of cash.

I assume the same is true of MrW. So we are both going to be targets going forward for conversion. But I haven't been offered a bribe yet, so for now I'm still playing as a member of the Rich.

If people see fit to vote for me today I'll do my best to make good decisions with distributing my money before I'm bankrupted. There is no way that I want the cash to disappear from the game when we are getting closer to the point where we can voluntarily end it.

[Alan T]

I won the telecomm bid yesterday. I bid I felt a modest amount on it with the idea that Hoops was bluffing and the wolves would know that he was bluffing. I also wasn't sure if Hoops was on our side or not. So I won the bid, and have elected to prevent the wolves from talking today.

[Alan T]

Barkeep, when does the telecomm go into efect? I didn't see any comment about it in the night write up.. I assume its in effect now?

[saldana]

damnit.

[Alan T]

Seems this morning is alot quieter than yesterday morning.

[Barkeep49]

Barkeep, when does the telecomm go into efect? I didn't see any comment about it in the night write up.. I assume its in effect now?
The telecom ability would only be announced if everyone got PM rights

[Alan T]

The telecom ability would only be announced if everyone got PM rights

ok, doesn't exactly answer my question, but I assume the answer is yes then. :)

[Tyrith]

Saldana dying sucks, but it happens. This game is like some people (I forget who and don't have time to look) were talking about earlier. We just need to keep the money circulating on our side. We need clears, desperately, but if we're about to day vote someone the proper play for them is to give away ALL of their money, to people we can trust, and, since that is going to be a short list and we don't want to overstack certain people, to everyone left in the game.

The absolute worst thing for us is to have money disappear in bankruptcy or to get burned up in extra votes that don't mean much. We have numbers, so as long as we keep the distribution of wealth mostly equal we will probably win. And if we can nail even one wolf, we win this game. It's just a matter of trading bodies for time for a little while as long as we keep the cash in the game. Your body really is secondary to your money.

[Passacaglia]

Saldana dying sucks, but it happens. This game is like some people (I forget who and don't have time to look) were talking about earlier. We just need to keep the money circulating on our side. We need clears, desperately, but if we're about to day vote someone the proper play for them is to give away ALL of their money, to people we can trust, and, since that is going to be a short list and we don't want to overstack certain people, to everyone left in the game.

The absolute worst thing for us is to have money disappear in bankruptcy or to get burned up in extra votes that don't mean much. We have numbers, so as long as we keep the distribution of wealth mostly equal we will probably win. And if we can nail even one wolf, we win this game. It's just a matter of trading bodies for time for a little while as long as we keep the cash in the game. Your body really is secondary to your money.

But the problem is how do we get clears? Granted we've had some bad luck, in that the general thinking right now is that Lathum scanned someone, and Schmidty scanned saldana. But even if we finally get a night where neither the scanner nor the scannee die, we have to worry about lying and conversion.

[Passacaglia]

Also, I'm interested in how we can take advantage of the fact that the wolves can't PM each other. Best I can think of is to look for them trying to send covert clues to each other in the thread. Anyone have anything else to go on here?

[Tyrith]

And that night kill was a pretty astute move by the wolves. Hoops is starting to really spike my danger sense...these little manipulations don't seem to be getting us anywhere good.

*thinks for a moment*

Right now it seems like there are two options regarding hoops. He's either a wolf, or the wolves are doing an amazing job screwing us over in regards to what he's saying. The game so far--

Votes for Lathum. A called shot. Lathum is killed that night. Doesn't really say that much, except that the three vote run Lathum was the first post in causes the only minor controversy of the day, which involves me. But having Lathum disappear that night disarms that potential controversy, a little. Not much here.

But yesterday, hoops targets saldana. A fair choice, because his logic was moderately sound, because of the lathum-saldana relationship, and I admitted as such yesterday. However, after actually taking the time to let that thought roll around in my head for a bit, isn't that way too obvious? And I don't recall other circumstances in which lathum and saldana let their RL relationship bleed into how they play the game like that. Granted, yesterday we had nothing to go on, but that's a really small chance to go off of.

Which leads to last night, where hoops was able to direct the seer scan into a player of his choosing. We should have, and I should have, figured out at the time that this was an incredibly bad idea, for this exact scenario. We lost a scan, which is the only real way we have of clearing anyone till we hit a wolf, and is going to massively delay us. It also gets rid of someone who would have resisted hoops with more incentive than the rest of us.

Add all this up and I feel like we're being manipulated. And if he is a wolf he paid off 10k in goodwill bribes yesterday, just like Alan talked about, which I could see him doing. It'd be a perfect wolf tactic to lead out with hoops doing the dirty work, eventually to be sacrificed once we figured it out.

Thus I seal my fate, most likely, by saying that we should probably lynch hoops today. There's just too much circumstancial evidence for me to feel good about it. The wolves could be doing a great job of screwing with us. And it's quite hard for us to predict how the money flow affects wolf decision making -- but how this is interfering with our seer scans is maddening, and for yesterday that finger has been pointed.

I know my WW history, and how good you are at getting out of situations like these. I'll listen to you, but it'll probably take someone else to convince me unless you have something really good.

[Alan T]

Also, I'm interested in how we can take advantage of the fact that the wolves can't PM each other. Best I can think of is to look for them trying to send covert clues to each other in the thread. Anyone have anything else to go on here?

Its kind of hard to have clues when hardly anyone has talked this morning. :)

I'm kind of waiting for Hoops to come back to the thread, would love to talk more about his play with the telecommunications bid. He said he bid 20k on it, which seems like a half-hearted bid on something that we had previously talked about as pretty important. The two options I saw that he had with that bid was either Go all out and bid high on it (which 20k isn't considering 3 different bids have been won for more than that so far), or bluff that you are going high on it and not bid on it at all and go elsewhere.

I bid on it as a safeguard, you can say trying to keep people honest, and when I won it I assumed he had just bluffed bidding on it. He said this morning that he did bid 20k on it though which is puzzling a little bit to me.

[Tyrith]

Pass, I'd imagine the wolves came up with a plan for today already, because they had to know this was coming. Subtle clues in the thread is probably too much work for a game like this, but it's possible they may have rigged some simple code to coordinate their targets.

[Passacaglia]

I'm not sure I follow the theory on hoops. Why would he suggest saldana as a scan, only to kill him that night? What would have happened if his other suggestion, Tyrith, was scanned? Or is that less important than the fact that he successfully diverted the scan away from him?

[Passacaglia]

Pass, I'd imagine the wolves came up with a plan for today already, because they had to know this was coming. Subtle clues in the thread is probably too much work for a game like this, but it's possible they may have rigged some simple code to coordinate their targets.

I'll put on my "codebreaker" hat, just in case.

[Passacaglia]

I'm not sure I follow the theory on hoops. Why would he suggest saldana as a scan, only to kill him that night? What would have happened if his other suggestion, Tyrith, was scanned? Or is that less important than the fact that he successfully diverted the scan away from him?

Oh, I think I'm starting to see it now. The idea is that he's trying to take away what might have been a cleared villager (I say might have been, since we're not sure how much we can trust it)? It still seems to me that if I were hoops and a wolf, I'd rather just argue that saldana isn't necessarily good, since we don't know if the person clearing him is good (I know that argument would have worked on me).

[Alan T]

I'm not sure I follow the theory on hoops. Why would he suggest saldana as a scan, only to kill him that night? What would have happened if his other suggestion, Tyrith, was scanned? Or is that less important than the fact that he successfully diverted the scan away from him?

I thought it was stated pretty heavily at least earlier in the thread yesterday that Hoops probably seemed like the logical choice for a scan yesterday. In the past Hoops has been very welcoming of a scan as well, stating that he would be happy to be cleared. Yesterday was a bit different than normal with him stating that he felt others should be scanned (Saldana and Tyrith). Unfortunatly for us, Schmidty listened to Hoops instead of to those of us who suggested Hoops be scanned.

Even with that said, I still am not going to jump to conclusions just yet. I would like to hear Hoops speak regarding the telecommunications bid as well as talk a bit about his thoughts of the night kill. It is unfortunate that he is a bit less active today in the discussion than yesterday, I have quite a few questions for him. I don't have to make any decision on my vote for today until close to 5pm EST from which point I am gone for the rest of the day. So plenty of time to talk over the issues.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Well, having come into some money, I'm going to begin by saying that I'll be going big on my bid for service today.

[Mr. Wednesday]

I think going forward, either hoops or I would probably be a good scan, notwithstanding the risk that either of us might be killed. hoops is probably safer than me, as he's had a night now to move his inheritance to the bank.

[claphamsa]

But yesterday, hoops targets saldana. A fair choice, because his logic was moderately sound, because of the lathum-saldana relationship, and I admitted as such yesterday. However, after actually taking the time to let that thought roll around in my head for a bit, isn't that way too obvious? And I don't recall other circumstances in which lathum and saldana let their RL relationship bleed into how they play the game like that. Granted, yesterday we had nothing to go on, but that's a really small chance to go off of.

ok people have mentiooned this before..... what is their relationship?

[Alan T]

ok people have mentiooned this before..... what is their relationship?


I think Saldana is Lathum's ex-girlfriend or something like that.

[path12]

Saldana as a target, especially after knowing he's down money-wise after spending the extra cash on a vote makes little sense on the face of it. I certainly see the logic against hoops in his suggestions that sal be scanned -- however, those suggestions were made in thread, so obviously the cutthroats saw them also and might have seen an opportunity to frame.

It's crucial for the cutthroats not to be caught. If any of them are and are bankrupted, then we've got to have a money edge for day 4. So maybe either buying the scans or directing them to targets is a prime goal of theirs.

I guess what I'm saying is that I could go either way on hoops right now, but he's definitely on the short list for a vote today.

And crap, I need to name a new beneficiary now. :(

[path12]

I think Saldana is Lathum's ex-girlfriend or something like that.

:D

[Alan T]

Barkeep, how long are the wolves silenced until? Is it just today, or today and tonight?

My hope is that it is a full 24 hours, that way they can not pair up and get both the thief and friend at the bank services. That alone could pay for the costs of those services if they did.

[Passacaglia]

Saldana as a target, especially after knowing he's down money-wise after spending the extra cash on a vote makes little sense on the face of it. I certainly see the logic against hoops in his suggestions that sal be scanned -- however, those suggestions were made in thread, so obviously the cutthroats saw them also and might have seen an opportunity to frame.

It's crucial for the cutthroats not to be caught. If any of them are and are bankrupted, then we've got to have a money edge for day 4. So maybe either buying the scans or directing them to targets is a prime goal of theirs.

I guess what I'm saying is that I could go either way on hoops right now, but he's definitely on the short list for a vote today.

And crap, I need to name a new beneficiary now. :(

So I assume Schmidty is on your shortlist, then? I don't think I've ever been in a game where he's a wolf, but it is an interesting ploy -- he buys the seer, kills sal, then pushes the blame to hoops for it.

[hoopsguy]

I'm around and happy to answer questions.

Telecomm bid - I had a fair amount of money tied up in CDs, so I didn't have unlimited cash. 20K wasn't the total amount I had to work with, but it was close in terms of capital I had for yesterday.

Here is how the money worked, with some info withheld. I'll add the additional info if people think it makes sense.
1.) Lathum and I both started with 30K (=60K)
2.) We both cast a Day 1 vote, total 30K (=90K)
3.) I spent 10K to name a new beneficiary after Swaggs was lynched (back to 80K)
4.) I "gifted" 6K yesterday to Arles and DaddyTorgo (=74K)
5.) Lathum didn't have 7.5K, which could have been either spent on the seer (I think) or money he had on hand that was claimed by the Cutthroats on killing him (=66.5K)
6.) Both Lathum and I had invested money in CDs that were not available yesterday (=good portion of remaining 66.5K). That money may or may not be available today. I think it is bad for our team for me to reveal this with 100% certainty if I can't give away CDs before being lynched
7.) I got another 6.5K from Mauboy at the deadline yesterday, did not factor into my bid decision

So the 20K bid represented most of my available money. I figured if they were going to go above 30K that I wasn't going to be able to stop them, but I did want to make sure they were going to put out a legitimate bid to win the service.

[Passacaglia]

5.) Lathum didn't have 7.5K, which could have been either spent on the seer (I think) or money he had on hand that was claimed by the Cutthroats on killing him (=66.5K)

hoops, when you say that he "didn't have" 7.5K, do you mean that he had exactly 37.5K?

[hoopsguy]

Yes, Lathum had 37.5K between assets in the bank and CDs. That value is based upon the value of the money deposited, not upon the money to be realized upon maturity.

[Tyrith]

Hey, a lurker :P

[Alan T]

Hoops.. here is my problem with your action. I am hoping you can help clear it up for me. The main reason I bid on the service was that it seemed pretty obvious in the thread yesterday that you were going to be the village's bidder for the service. So your choices are then to either bluff and go elsewhere or go big (which 20k is not big) to make sure the wolves didn't get it.

Since I wasn't sure I could trust you, I figured I would back that up just in case. So since the bids were revealed I have been trying to put myself in your shoes and figure out what your direction was.. To me yesterday it felt like you were one of the possible wolf targets as we all knew that you had received Lathum's inheritance. So if you wern't going to bid on the Telecommunications, and you are a good guy, why didn't you bid on the bodyguard service to make sure you and the money you gained stayed on the good side? The bodyguard service is much cheaper it appears and very doable for you.

The way you revealed that you did not get the service, and instantly throwing out the idea that the wolves did seemed a little "forced" as well. Part of me feels that you are a wolf who was making people think you would protect the bid, thus having it available for a lower price which you tried to get it for.. I just am having a hard time finding how you bid only 20k for that as a good guy.

[Passacaglia]

Yes, Lathum had 37.5K between assets in the bank and CDs. That value is based upon the value of the money deposited, not upon the money to be realized upon maturity.

Right, the money deposited is what I meant. Was there something that didn't want you to say it like that in the first place? I figured that's what caused you to think Lathum bid on the seer, but you never know..

[hoopsguy]

The bodyguard service does not prevent a bribe, per Barkeep's answer yesterday. I would be much more interested in that service otherwise.

In terms of keeping money from them, I have minimized my on-hand cash in the event that they night kill me. I hope that the person I've selected as my beneficiary is on the right side.

That is what I thought I could do to keep the Cutthroats from claiming my money yesterday.

As far as assuming that the wolves got the service, I did not see an announcement on PM rights. I posed the question to BK, but had to get going to work before getting an answer. I made an assumption that looks to have been incorrect if you obtained the service as a member of the Rich and are telling the truth about using it to prevent their communications.

On the 20K, if you work backwards on the numbers you can more or less figure out what I had for my assets yesterday. I thought it was going to take a number above 30K, which I didn't have. So I tried to bluff at it in the thread, with the idea of driving the price tag up higher for the wolves if they wanted to chase this service.

[Tyrith]

Sigh, and I hadn't even thought about the telecomm service issue. And it strikes me as altogther too possible that if hoops is bad the wolves set up a fairly detailed scheme for today and that he never had any intention of winning the service, and just let us throw money down a hole.

There are just too many things adding up right now in my mind, and it doesn't seem like we're going to get other evidence today. Feel free to try to talk me down off the ledge.

[hoopsguy]

Right, the money deposited is what I meant. Was there something that didn't want you to say it like that in the first place? I figured that's what caused you to think Lathum bid on the seer, but you never know..

I did say it, but in a more roundabout manner.
Starting money + vote money - 7.5K

[Schmidty]

So I assume Schmidty is on your shortlist, then? I don't think I've ever been in a game where he's a wolf, but it is an interesting ploy -- he buys the seer, kills sal, then pushes the blame to hoops for it.

You're mental if you can't find a better candidate than me. No offense.

[Tyrith]

You're mental if you can't find a better candidate than me. No offense.

Your vote this morning was far too schmidty to be used for or against you :)

[hoopsguy]

Sigh, and I hadn't even thought about the telecomm service issue. And it strikes me as altogther too possible that if hoops is bad the wolves set up a fairly detailed scheme for today and that he never had any intention of winning the service, and just let us throw money down a hole.

There are just too many things adding up right now in my mind, and it doesn't seem like we're going to get other evidence today. Feel free to try to talk me down off the ledge.

Tyrith, I've already got one vote on me and have had Chief voting on me for two days now. Everyone else in the thread is questioning me. Do what you feel you have to do.

I don't have any value other than my money, which is right now 100% on the side of the Rich. I'll move the money before I die, with the hope that I'm keeping as much of it as possible in the hands of the Rich.

You guys are going down the wrong path, and it isn't going to get a Cutthroat today. I'll answer every question you guys have, and if you don't believe me then I'm clearly not doing a very good job this game and not adding value in terms of winning. I can accept that, and I'll try to figure out what to do differently for next game.

At some point today, however, I'm going to have to figure out what is a better direction with the vote. Because if I am lynched, and it is revealed that I am "Rich" and not "Cutthroat", then I would like for there to be some avenue to pursue for future days.

[Alan T]

The bodyguard service does not prevent a bribe, per Barkeep's answer yesterday. I would be much more interested in that service otherwise.

In terms of keeping money from them, I have minimized my on-hand cash in the event that they night kill me. I hope that the person I've selected as my beneficiary is on the right side.

That is what I thought I could do to keep the Cutthroats from claiming my money yesterday.

As far as assuming that the wolves got the service, I did not see an announcement on PM rights. I posed the question to BK, but had to get going to work before getting an answer. I made an assumption that looks to have been incorrect if you obtained the service as a member of the Rich and are telling the truth about using it to prevent their communications.

On the 20K, if you work backwards on the numbers you can more or less figure out what I had for my assets yesterday. I thought it was going to take a number above 30K, which I didn't have. So I tried to bluff at it in the thread, with the idea of driving the price tag up higher for the wolves if they wanted to chase this service.

It is kind of hard for me to go backwards to see what you had for assets since we don't know how much you have tied up in CDs (if anything). The way you came out supposedly bidding just below what I did made that (and still makes it) feel like a made up amount.

[hoopsguy]

Alan, I know that I would be a heck of a lot happier if I had bid every cent I had on the service right now because I would have won the service. That doesn't change the fact that my bid is exactly as I indicated it was.

What would be my incentive to make up a number, rather than to suggest that I didn't bid on it at all?

[Schmidty]

Your vote this morning was far too schmidty to be used for or against you :)

I'm just bad, and I'm the only one who can say that, so when I obviously get screwed out in public, I get mad. I have low self-esteem in WW.

Love me.

[Passacaglia]

You're mental if you can't find a better candidate than me. No offense.

None taken, since I didn't say I can't find a better candidate than you. Anyway, can you find a better candidate than you? I just blew my mind!

[Schmidty]

None taken, since I didn't say I can't find a better candidate than you. Anyway, can you find a better candidate than you? I just blew my mind!

I already did find a better candidate!!!! Hoops!!!!!!

He's as bad as an apple with clymidia.

[Passacaglia]

I did say it, but in a more roundabout manner.
Starting money + vote money - 7.5K

Right. It's just that the roundabout matter led me not to be sure if you were doing it right. Remember, we had people thinking that the most you could put in a CD was 10K!

[Passacaglia]

I already did find a better candidate!!!! Hoops!!!!!!

He's as bad as an apple with clymidia.

Good point. Consider my mind unblown.

[Tyrith]

What would be my incentive to make up a number, rather than to suggest that I didn't bid on it at all?

We would be even more on your case if you hadn't bid at all. Pretty much the only lie we would have bought would be that you bid 20k on the seer and lost, but that would have also brought heat from us about the fact that we considered, by consensus, that the telecomm was more important.

[hoopsguy]

Schmidty, your vote is cast and I understand that. But as you have stepped away from the decision do you really think that I was trying to influence the seer only to kill the person that night?

The fact that Saldana isn't here already demonstrates that yesterday's vote was pretty worthless. That was my major hope with the scan, to either catch a wolf or tell us that we were off-track yesterday. The wolves, in killing Saldana, provided that information for us.

Sure, there is frustration in "wasting" a scan, but at least I personally feel like I got the information that I was looking for and won't bother wasting much time today dredging through votes yesterday as definitive proof of guilt/innocence.

[Tyrith]

Oh Schmidty, what would we do without you.

[Tyrith]

Schmidty, your vote is cast and I understand that. But as you have stepped away from the decision do you really think that I was trying to influence the seer only to kill the person that night?

The fact that Saldana isn't here already demonstrates that yesterday's vote was pretty worthless. That was my major hope with the scan, to either catch a wolf or tell us that we were off-track yesterday. The wolves, in killing Saldana, provided that information for us.

Sure, there is frustration in "wasting" a scan, but at least I personally feel like I got the information that I was looking for and won't bother wasting much time today dredging through votes yesterday as definitive proof of guilt/innocence.

Yeah, but we need people we can trust, or at least whose allegiance we know _alive_ so we can trust them with money and/or use their statements as a source of information. A body can tell some tales, but it doesn't tell any new tales, and the old tales really weren't that interesting.

[Schmidty]

Oh Schmidty, what would we do without you.

Have a more productive WW player?

[Tyrith]

Have a more productive WW player?

Hey now, a warm body is better than nobody. ;) And you're useful for stirring up the hornet's nest.

[hoopsguy]

We would be even more on your case if you hadn't bid at all. Pretty much the only lie we would have bought would be that you bid 20k on the seer and lost, but that would have also brought heat from us about the fact that we considered, by consensus, that the telecomm was more important.

For what little it is worth, I didn't think there was any way the inflation on the seer would be that great. I had thought about putting an offer of 10-15K out on the seer, thinking that would get the job done.

I don't see where there is a problem with stockpiling money as a strategy rather than bidding on services. The uncomfortable part about it for me, up to this point, is that everyone knew that I inherited money so I had more of it than others. I certainly started the game with the notion of stockpiling money, while letting others bid for services. But once the inheritance was announced I was concerned about being a bribe target because it would be a sound economic play for them. So I positioned that I would have less money, making a bribe a bad financial play. Note that I didn't comment on services last night, but waited until this morning to do so.

So where does that leave me today? Well, more or less waiting to see how votes shake out. If people are determined to vote me out then I won't be bidding on services - I'll focus on giving money away and trying to manage risk as best I can. If it looks like I'm going to live to see the night cycle, then I'll probably take a hard look at services. I've got enough free money today to make a substantially larger bid than yesterday, if I believe there is value in doing so.

[saldana]

I think Saldana is Lathum's ex-girlfriend or something like that.

dick:p

[SnDvls]

Way off topic, but

ok I have a problem with Arles still being in this game.
He was on here viewing just after lynch and nothing was said.
Yes he's probally a villager, but a worthless one at that right now to us as a village.

Barkeep is this being addressed or will it be today to have a replacement named well before deadline?


sorry had to get that off my chest.

[Alan T]

Hoops.. how did you come down to the conclusion that yesterday was Mau vs Saldana vs Tyrith, and Mauboy being good leads to needing information about Saldana and Tyrith? Since you seemed to give the impression that Saldana being good means we don't need to look at yesterday's vote at all, I decided maybe I should dig in a bit.

Here is the vote map from yesterday:

Hoops 1 (276)
Hoops 1 Chief 1 (374)
Hoops 1 Chief 1 Mauboy 1 (388)
Hoops 1 Chief 1 Mauboy 1 Sndvls 1 (394)
Hoops 1 Chief 1 Mauboy 1 Sndvls 2 (396)
Hoops 1 Chief 1 Mauboy 2 Sndvls 2 (401)
Hoops 1 Chief 1 Mauboy 2 Sndvls 2 Claphasma 1 (406)
Hoops 1 Chief 1 Mauboy 3 Sndvls 2 Claphasma 1 (411)
Hoops 1 Chief 1 Mauboy 3 Sndvls 2 Claphasma 1 Saldana 1 (414)
Hoops 1 Chief 1 Mauboy 3 Sndvls 2 Claphasma 2 Saldana 1 (417)
Hoops 1 Chief 1 Mauboy 4 Sndvls 2 Claphasma 2 Saldana 1 (419)
Hoops 1 Chief 1 Mauboy 4 Sndvls 2 Claphasma 2 Saldana 2 (428)
Hoops 1 Chief 1 Mauboy 5 Sndvls 2 Claphasma 2 Saldana 2 (473)



Tyrith's vote (411) was indeed the winner as it was the third vote on Mauboy, but at the time it was 3-2 between Mauboy and Sndvls with several people having 1 vote. Saldana's vote (401) was the 2nd on Mauboy which tied him with Sndvls whom had been leading the vote.

[hoopsguy]

Yeah, but we need people we can trust, or at least whose allegiance we know _alive_ so we can trust them with money and/or use their statements as a source of information. A body can tell some tales, but it doesn't tell any new tales, and the old tales really weren't that interesting.

Alive means that you trust them for that day, based on this format. You can trust every statement Saldana has made over the first two days of the game.

Trust with money - I don't think that is a great idea in terms of moving money to them, naming them as beneficiaries with the bribe option in the game.

I would rather have Saldana alive than dead for a couple of reasons. One, I like playing WW with him and respect his thought process. Two, it would give us slightly better odds with our selection today. But I don't really buy off on the ideas you are listing as the biggest reasons to want the seer scan instead of the corpse. Someone had to die last night, barring a bodyguard block. We got more information from Saldana dying (without the context of him being the seer scan) than we would have from just about anyone else.

[Tyrith]

And hoops, I can agree with you on that strategy for the villagers. And burning money on services is really antitheical to our end game strategy...but we desperately need seer scans. Even though 25k surprised the heck out of me, too.

[Tyrith]

Alive means that you trust them for that day, based on this format. You can trust every statement Saldana has made over the first two days of the game.

Trust with money - I don't think that is a great idea in terms of moving money to them, naming them as beneficiaries with the bribe option in the game.

I would rather have Saldana alive than dead for a couple of reasons. One, I like playing WW with him and respect his thought process. Two, it would give us slightly better odds with our selection today. But I don't really buy off on the ideas you are listing as the biggest reasons to want the seer scan instead of the corpse. Someone had to die last night, barring a bodyguard block. We got more information from Saldana dying (without the context of him being the seer scan) than we would have from just about anyone else.

If we have one alive clear then that means we can eventually get more. At some point we have to actually trust someone, and with the bribe option, as you said, we can't really trust the first person immediately. But that problem continues to loom over our head until we get past the first cleared person onto more, and that's not going to happen until we kill a wolf or we get multiple seer scans.

[Tyrith]

Tyrith's vote (411) was indeed the winner as it was the third vote on Mauboy, but at the time it was 3-2 between Mauboy and Sndvls with several people having 1 vote. Saldana's vote (401) was the 2nd on Mauboy which tied him with Sndvls whom had been leading the vote.


Thus are the woes of having to vote when I did -- it was unavoidable that my vote was going to be the one under scruntity, and I'll deal with that.

[Alan T]

Thus are the woes of having to vote when I did -- it was unavoidable that my vote was going to be the one under scruntity, and I'll deal with that.

Well I guess that is what I am getting at.. why is your vote under scrutiny? If Hoops is good and he thinks you may have been bad, why vote that way there? Were you trying to save Sndvls? If that is the case, why wouldn't Hoops have mentioned Sndvls name last night too? I'm just trying to figure out his thought process on whom he named.. if there was some logical progression or if he was trying to throw out names to keep from getting scanned himself.

[claphamsa]

and this makes even more curious....

dick:p

[hoopsguy]

Actually, you can trust that first person immediately - but that diminishes each day.

I'm not thrilled that we haven't had a seer scan go through yet. I think we all would like to have that to help with our decision process. I'm equally worried about the fact that our voting records seem pretty worthless.

I can tell you guys that Saldana dead = Hoops Cutthroat is a red herring, but it is up to you (collectively) to believe it. You either do or you don't. Similarly, I can tell you that I won't speculate on the proper seer scan during the night section going forward if that will make people feel better. Ultimately, I don't know if that helps or hurts, as it is still up to the person with the service to make the call on where to go with it. And that includes directing it at me, if that makes the most sense to them.

[Tyrith]

Well I guess that is what I am getting at.. why is your vote under scrutiny? If Hoops is good and he thinks you may have been bad, why vote that way there? Were you trying to save Sndvls? If that is the case, why wouldn't Hoops have mentioned Sndvls name last night too? I'm just trying to figure out his thought process on whom he named.. if there was some logical progression or if he was trying to throw out names to keep from getting scanned himself.

Ahhh, I get your point. Hm. Seems like it goes back to that day one comment? That'd be a really weird basis. And if he's bad a scan on me would turn up good...honestly, I don't know, because I don't see the logical progression there either.

[hoopsguy]

Alan, I didn't understand the case on Mauboy. So I looked at the people voting on him and tried to figure out where I stood on those people in terms of trust.

SnDvls - 1st vote, repeat vote from previous day. Not much read
Tyrith - 2nd vote, didn't understand why he picked him out of list at the time after barely mentioning him up to that point in the game
Saldana - 3rd vote, didn't buy his "inexperienced wolf team" slant, and was already working on my theory tying him to Lathum's death (clearly wrong, but it was the theory at the time)

By this point, Mauboy was the leading vote getter and in a game without unvotes he was going to be one of the two main candidates. I went after Saldana to make him the 2nd candidate with my vote, as Tyrith had no votes.

[hoopsguy]

Sigh ... I wasn't trying to keep from being scanned myself. Not anymore than any villager who knows they are a villager believes scans are better spent trying to identify a wolf.

[Tyrith]

My vote was because of the problem path mentioned before me -- it was time to make a choice and stop throwing random votes out there. Path pretty much took away my capacity to duck the choice by going with another candidate...hm, that's a fact to store away. But the fact that I had barely mentioned him is why I voted for him -- tiebreaker is always kill the quiet one, burned into my skull back from the good old days.

[path12]

So I assume Schmidty is on your shortlist, then? I don't think I've ever been in a game where he's a wolf, but it is an interesting ploy -- he buys the seer, kills sal, then pushes the blame to hoops for it.

Truth be told, you're much higher on my list than Schmidty is.

[path12]

We would be even more on your case if you hadn't bid at all. Pretty much the only lie we would have bought would be that you bid 20k on the seer and lost, but that would have also brought heat from us about the fact that we considered, by consensus, that the telecomm was more important.

We don't know whether he bid or not. Alan won the telecomm apparently (though technically we don't know that either for 100% sure). But there's no way I can see to know for sure who's actually done anything.

I think I just now see the benefit of the Friend of the Bank.

[Tyrith]

We don't know whether he bid or not. Alan won the telecomm apparently (though technically we don't know that either for 100% sure). But there's no way I can see to know for sure who's actually done anything.

I think I just now see the benefit of the Friend of the Bank.

Wolves don't have a disincentive to keep cash on hand, though, so they can rig it to confuse us with no cost to themselves.

[hoopsguy]

Just as I said yesterday, I'm happy to have any kind of conversation with the Friend of the Bank that they would like to pursue.

However, the wolves do have an incentive to invest money in CDs to grow those assets as long as they can still pass that along to other players if they are in a pinch with the vote.

[Barkeep49]

Barkeep, how long are the wolves silenced until? Is it just today, or today and tonight?

My hope is that it is a full 24 hours, that way they can not pair up and get both the thief and friend at the bank services. That alone could pay for the costs of those services if they did.
The service is good only during the day cycle.

[path12]

and this makes even more curious....

They're friends from way back. We like to pretend saldana is a chick.

[Tyrith]

I'm gone till after 2, when I'll be back for around an hour and then be gone until after lynch.

[path12]

My vote was because of the problem path mentioned before me -- it was time to make a choice and stop throwing random votes out there. Path pretty much took away my capacity to duck the choice by going with another candidate...hm, that's a fact to store away. But the fact that I had barely mentioned him is why I voted for him -- tiebreaker is always kill the quiet one, burned into my skull back from the good old days.

I had mentioned earlier I had to have my vote in by 4 Pacific/7 Eastern. I had no idea before I voted that you had to vote early also.

[path12]

Wolves don't have a disincentive to keep cash on hand, though, so they can rig it to confuse us with no cost to themselves.

Sure, but it still gives us a starting point to verify peoples stories about what they have/had available to bid. And if the wolves are really silenced today they won't be able to coordinate very well for tomorrow.

Offhand was there anyone Sal was really going after yesterday? There's always the kill the guy who's onto me angle.

[path12]

Just as I said yesterday, I'm happy to have any kind of conversation with the Friend of the Bank that they would like to pursue.

However, the wolves do have an incentive to invest money in CDs to grow those assets as long as they can still pass that along to other players if they are in a pinch with the vote.

So do we. I assume most of us have a good chunk of money in CD's.

[Barkeep49]

Way off topic, but

ok I have a problem with Arles still being in this game.
He was on here viewing just after lynch and nothing was said.
Yes he's probally a villager, but a worthless one at that right now to us as a village.

Barkeep is this being addressed or will it be today to have a replacement named well before deadline?


sorry had to get that off my chest.
He asked to withdraw last night. I've been too busy to look for a replacement player until now. I'm going to send out a couple of feelers and hope that someone will step in.

[hoopsguy]

Right, I'm disputing the notion that they want all their money outside of banks to foil the Friend of Bank.

They don't want to have an unexplainable amount of money in the bank, but I would be very surprised if they are keeping the majority of their cash on hand.

Remember, they don't automatically get the night cash. They either got 7,500 or 0 from Lathum, depending on if he won the seer that day. I have no idea what they obtained from Saldana, but it could very well have been zero.

[Passacaglia]

Truth be told, you're much higher on my list than Schmidty is.

Doesn't that fly in the face of everything you said in the post I was replying to?

[Passacaglia]

Right, I'm disputing the notion that they want all their money outside of banks to foil the Friend of Bank.

They don't want to have an unexplainable amount of money in the bank, but I would be very surprised if they are keeping the majority of their cash on hand.

Remember, they don't automatically get the night cash. They either got 7,500 or 0 from Lathum, depending on if he won the seer that day. I have no idea what they obtained from Saldana, but it could very well have been zero.

I'm not sure I follow. You're disputing the notion that they want all their monry outside of banks -- but then you say thet don't want to have an unexplainable amount of money in the bank?

As for Lathum, based on what you've said, I find it unlikely that they got 7500 from him -- that just seems like too much of a coincidence.

[Passacaglia]

I think it boils down to whether or not the wolves started with more money than we did. If so, then they'll definitely want to make sure they don't leave it in the bank. Even if that's not the case, my guess is that they'd be wary of putting too much in. As of Day 1, the most we could have had in the bank was 30K. As of Day 2, the most we could have had in the bank was 46.5K -- and that's by putting all the money in a CD Day 1, then moving it all to the bank. If anyone showed up with numbers higher than this, it should be setting off alarm bells to the friend of the bank.

[path12]

Doesn't that fly in the face of everything you said in the post I was replying to?

I don't think so. I lean more towards the idea that Schmidty was played rather than vice versa.

[path12]

Remember, they don't automatically get the night cash. They either got 7,500 or 0 from Lathum, depending on if he won the seer that day. I have no idea what they obtained from Saldana, but it could very well have been zero.

True, but I don't follow how that is relevant. I'm talking about using the Friend of the Bank service to get a better idea of who is being straight up when discussing bids.

[hoopsguy]

OK, you can get a sense for when someone is being honest about a bid. But for that to happen people have to be willing to talk about their successful and failed bids. That didn't happen yesterday with any services. Today we have Alan and Schmidty talking about winning services, and me talking about entering a losing bid, but there is still a lot of stuff not being addressed.

Obviously two services were purchased D1 that were not discussed (FOB and Get Out of Bankrupcy Free) yesterday.
Two services were purchased D2 that have not yet been discussed (FOB and Bodyguard).

Only one person that I recall (me) has given any indication of a failed bid for a service, let alone the amount spent.

So if we are planning to make use of the FOB, we need people to open up their discussion quite a bit (pros and cons to this) and also a way to determine if the FOB can validate bank accounts vs CDs to assess bids.

[Alan T]

OK, you can get a sense for when someone is being honest about a bid. But for that to happen people have to be willing to talk about their successful and failed bids. That didn't happen yesterday with any services. Today we have Alan and Schmidty talking about winning services, and me talking about entering a losing bid, but there is still a lot of stuff not being addressed.

Obviously two services were purchased D1 that were not discussed (FOB and Get Out of Bankrupcy Free) yesterday.
Two services were purchased D2 that have not yet been discussed (FOB and Bodyguard).

Only one person that I recall (me) has given any indication of a failed bid for a service, let alone the amount spent.

So if we are planning to make use of the FOB, we need people to open up their discussion quite a bit (pros and cons to this) and also a way to determine if the FOB can validate bank accounts vs CDs to assess bids.


You left out all of the discussion regarding that I had failed to get the Get out of bankrupcy free service the first day. We actually talked about that a fair bit yesterday morning as not much else was being discussed at the time.

[hoopsguy]

Thanks for the correction, Alan.

[Passacaglia]

hoops, do you feel comfortable saying what amount you got from mauboy? Reading back, I couldn't tell if he sent you 6,500 or 16,500.

[Lathum]

I think Saldana is Lathum's ex-girlfriend or something like that.

this made me snort

[Alan T]

Thanks for the correction, Alan.

Heh, I am getting the feeling you are getting tired of me correcting your errors today :cool:


Ok, Hoops, right now if I had to be honest, you just don't have me convinced. Part of it is your story isn't sitting too well with me, but part is that you just are coming across to me as just apathetic, or like you aren't giving it your all to try to convince me or others otherwise. I know in the past you have worked very hard to try to talk people away from voting you both when you were a wolf and when you were a villager.

I don't have to vote for another 2 1/2 hours but then I will need to before I leave. If I were to not look in your direction today, what path are you thinking of taking? I am not sold on your thoughts about Tyrith, I haven't seen anything from him that "Screams" wolf thus far to me. I don't see much of anything from yesterday's votes to go on as the only person I would really have questions about was saved by someone whom turned out to be good.

If I was to look at who the two night kills were "after" prior to death, Lathum seemed to have issues with you and Saldana thought the opposite that the wolves were newer players or inexperienced... I don't really put alot of weight into the whole thought that wolves would take out people whom were after them.. that seems too obvious to me.

The only other possible direction I could see going in would be to look at who threw away votes yesterday to allow us to bankrupt one of our own, but off the top of my head I don't have who that is in list form..

I'm curious what your thoughts are.. if you were to persuade me to go elsewhere, who would you push me to today?

[Passacaglia]

What do you all think of SnDvls? There was a small bit of heat on him, but then moves toward mau and sal (both good) showed up. Off to verify that.

[Alan T]

What do you all think of SnDvls? There was a small bit of heat on him, but then moves toward mau and sal (both good) showed up. Off to verify that.

The "heat" on sndvls was applied by you and mauboy and that is it. If Sndvls was bad, he was "saved" by Saldana who also is good. I went down this path this morning when I was looking at the votes and posted my thoughts there... I wouldn't necessarily call the vote being 2-1-1-1 or whatever it was as "heat"

[hoopsguy]

I don't think that I'm apathetic, but I am not sure that I have it in me today to take on all comers. I'll engage in any kind of give-and-take dialogue. I'll answer any questions. If you don't believe what I'm saying, you should strongly consider voting me. If enough people vote for me, I'll do what I can to put my money where I think it remains in the hands of the Rich.

If people start putting votes on me early enough, you'll see the cash move as it becomes inevitable that I'm going to die. And I expect that will serve as some kind of a message to people that "oops, we are screwing this up" because a wolf would silently transfer their assets rather than moving 10K, 20K, 30K, 40K, etc. The only stuff I can't move is my assets that were in 3-day bonds, which do represent a portion of my overall net worth.

I really haven't dredged posts yet to determine who my candidates are, but you are discounting Tyrith when he is one of the people I have greater doubt for right now. Similarly, I'm not sold on you as a good guy either but somehow I don't think I'm getting you to vote for yourself.

I'll put together a trust list based on my impressions so far as part of my next long post.

[Passacaglia]

The "heat" on sndvls was applied by you and mauboy and that is it. If Sndvls was bad, he was "saved" by Saldana who also is good. I went down this path this morning when I was looking at the votes and posted my thoughts there... I wouldn't necessarily call the vote being 2-1-1-1 or whatever it was as "heat"

It may not have been heat, but he was the lead vote-getter for at least a little while. My thinking was that it was Tyrith and clap who put the votes to make it 4-2-2. Clap had two votes on him, so I could see his vote as self-defense, but Tyrith was the one who gave mauboy the lead. Now I'm off to see what hoops had to say about Tyrith -- it didn't seem to convince me before, but this makes me think it's worth another look (or maybe another reiteration, hoops?)

[Passacaglia]

Similarly, I'm not sold on you as a good guy either but somehow I don't think I'm getting you to vote for yourself.

I tried that line on path last game. Didn't work. Of course, we were both wolves then.

[SnDvls]

It may not have been heat, but he was the lead vote-getter for at least a little while. My thinking was that it was Tyrith and clap who put the votes to make it 4-2-2. Clap had two votes on him, so I could see his vote as self-defense, but Tyrith was the one who gave mauboy the lead. Now I'm off to see what hoops had to say about Tyrith -- it didn't seem to convince me before, but this makes me think it's worth another look (or maybe another reiteration, hoops?)

I was the lead vote getter because you voted for me (wrongly I might add as it was pointed out to you just after your vote) and because mauboy voted me in retalitaion for my vote on him.

[Passacaglia]

I was the lead vote getter because you voted for me (wrongly I might add as it was pointed out to you just after your vote) and because mauboy voted me in retalitaion for my vote on him.

Right -- I admitted to being wrong about that. I used your post to determine who didn't vote, and when I found out that DT had voted, I accidentally blamed you for the mistake. But what I'm asking now is whether or not what happened yesterday amounted to a wolf attempt to save you.

[SnDvls]

Right -- I admitted to being wrong about that. I used your post to determine who didn't vote, and when I found out that DT had voted, I accidentally blamed you for the mistake. But what I'm asking now is whether or not what happened yesterday amounted to a wolf attempt to save you.


I was "saved" by mauboy and Saldana, both good villagers per their deaths, so I doubt any wolves were involved there.

[Tyrith]

I fully expect to not make the weekend at this point. Hopefully because hoops comes up bad; but if he's good I figure it's pretty likely I'll be lynched tomorrow. I can cope with that.

[Passacaglia]

I was "saved" by mauboy and Saldana, both good villagers per their deaths, so I doubt any wolves were involved there.

You don't think Tyrith, clap, or even DT had anything to do with it? I just mentioned Tyrith and clap a few posts ago, and DT's vote made it 5-2-2. I think by then, you were out of the woods, so I think that bringing up mau as someone who saved you (when he was obviously trying to save himself), doesn't make sense to me. For the same reason, I'm less skeptical of DT's vote -- I don't think he votes to give mau a three vote lead, putting himself out there, if he's a wolf trying to save you.

[Passacaglia]

hoops, do you feel comfortable saying what amount you got from mauboy? Reading back, I couldn't tell if he sent you 6,500 or 16,500.

Never mind about this, hoops. I missed one of mauboy's votes. Three of his votes were labeled 'mau' and the other was labeled 'mauboy' so even though it was right next to another one, I missed it.

[SnDvls]

You don't think Tyrith, clap, or even DT had anything to do with it? I just mentioned Tyrith and clap a few posts ago, and DT's vote made it 5-2-2. I think by then, you were out of the woods, so I think that bringing up mau as someone who saved you (when he was obviously trying to save himself), doesn't make sense to me. For the same reason, I'm less skeptical of DT's vote -- I don't think he votes to give mau a three vote lead, putting himself out there, if he's a wolf trying to save you.

mau voted 4 times last night...twice for both me and Sal...if he was really trying to save himself he did a poor job of it by basically canceling out his votes. so yes I feel he had aroud about way of "saving" me

I think you are just barking up the wrong tree is all with me

[Passacaglia]

Why are you guys putting saved in quotation marks all the time?

[Passacaglia]

mau voted 4 times last night...twice for both me and Sal...if he was really trying to save himself he did a poor job of it by basically canceling out his votes. so yes I feel he had aroud about way of "saving" me

I think you are just barking up the wrong tree is all with me

I'm not saying that I understand what he did. But I don't think you can say that he was saving you, but was unable to save himself. That's why I'd rather leave him out of it, and not divert attention away from Tyrith, clap, and DT.

I'm interested to read hoops's long post, and Tyrith's answer. I've got an hour and a half to think about it.

[SnDvls]

Why are you guys putting saved in quotation marks all the time?

because it's your word not mine.

To be "saved" by a wolf you generally have to be one and I'm not.
I haven't seen a game yet where a wolf would "save" a villager.

[SnDvls]

dola -

I guess it's Alan's and your word

he used it first

[Alan T]

dola -

I guess it's Alan's and your word

he used it first

Perhaps I did use it first, but I put it in Quotes when I used it for pretty much the same meaning that you just gave. I don't see yesterday's vote as anyone saving you.

[hoopsguy]

I fully expect to not make the weekend at this point. Hopefully because hoops comes up bad; but if he's good I figure it's pretty likely I'll be lynched tomorrow. I can cope with that.

Why would you say this? I have one vote at the moment, and I don't think I'm in a "me vs Tyrith" mode.

Do I trust you less than the "average" villager at the moment? Yep, but that is partly because I don't have a lot of evidence to work with.

And if you are a member of the Rich, and you are suggesting that if I'm good and you are good that you are OK with us going down on Days 3 + 4 then you are crazy. A four day hole is a huge swing for us to give up, and it would put us in a horrible position to win this game. You, and pretty much any other villager, should fight like nuts to avoid us going down 4-0 rather than suggesting you are pretty OK with it.

[Passacaglia]

Yeah, it was SD and Alan I was referring to when I said "you guys" -- it just feels like you're trying to discredit it by pretending it didn't happen, rather than analyze it.

[Passacaglia]

But yeah, I guess Alan did use it first -- I hadn't even said "saved" -- um, without the quotes. But my thinking still stands -- I think the focus is on sal and mau when I'm suggesting more viable (and still alive, with allegiance unknown) candidates for, uh, "saving" SnDvls.

[Tyrith]

Why would you say this? I have one vote at the moment, and I don't think I'm in a "me vs Tyrith" mode.

Do I trust you less than the "average" villager at the moment? Yep, but that is partly because I don't have a lot of evidence to work with.

And if you are a member of the Rich, and you are suggesting that if I'm good and you are good that you are OK with us going down on Days 3 + 4 then you are crazy. A four day hole is a huge swing for us to give up, and it would put us in a horrible position to win this game. You, and pretty much any other villager, should fight like nuts to avoid us going down 4-0 rather than suggesting you are pretty OK with it.


No, I fully expect you're lynched today. And if you turn up good I expect that I'll be lynched tomorrow, even though it's wrong. Will that cause us to lose the game? Possibly, but in this game the money will live on. And if you turn up bad I suspect I'll be dead tonight. Hazard of the job.

[Passacaglia]

I mean, it'd be one thing if you said "I can see where you're coming from" (with or without quotes), then said something like "I don't think the wolves would let two of their ilk get outed like that," -- I mean, that's how the game is played! But instead it seems like you're ignoring part of what I'm saying, and basing your argument on the "fact" (notice the quotes) that you're a villager.

That said, I'm pretty torn. Most of this is just bringing up some discussion points. Truth be told, I *don't* think the wolves would let two of their ilk get outed like that. I'm just confused by the way this discussion is going.

[hoopsguy]

1. Lathum - dead
2. Pass - slightly less trust than normal, I don't see a consistent thought process at work in his approach to game as I have in games where he is a well-intended villager.
3. hoopsguy - known good
4. path - neutral for now, will drop quickly in coming day(s) if I don't see him begin to apply analysis like he does as a villager
5. Render - posts are random, somewhat detached, a guy I'm forgetting is in the game. slightly less than normal trust, as I've seen him turtle as a bad guy before
6. Arles - MIA, not obtaining cash
7. Alan T - has two bids that can't be verified (failed tie, successful bid), playing role of doubter stringing me along with questions. We generally play very poorly together as teammates, always doubting each other, and I'm wondering if this is what is happening here. Slight distrust, but not going to vote that direction today unless someone else can present better case
8. The Jackal - completely off the map, first time playing with him
9. Chief Rum - has basically gunned for me from outset, but I still trust him more than norm for now because I don't think this would be his wolf strategy. I just think he will need to open his mind up to alternate strategies because his current one is a loser
10. mauboy - dead
11. Schmidty - purchased seer D2? medium trust
12. claphamsa - the candidate with multiple votes from yesterday that I like the most out of the current batch. Playing a less engaged game than I've seen in past from him, more similar to last game (when he was good) when he was traveling
13. SnDvls - minimal read, pretty consistent with my usual gaming experience with him. Just like MrW, he is a pretty careful player in his statements
14. Mr. Wednesday - would really like to know what he was doing yesterday, as he suggesting he was going to bid big but doesn't appear to have won a service. 2nd guy (besides me) known to have some money due to inheritance. Slight distrust, feels like he has played "good cop" with his statements towards/about me this game
15. Swaggs - dead
16. DaddyTorgo - get in the game, dude! No real feelings after learning he did vote on Day 1
17. saldana - dead
18. Tyrith - slight distrust as he keeps popping up in my theories for bad guy play. But radar hasn't treated me that kindly so far this game


We're playing with awfully limited information at the moment. Assuming nothing else is coming out - and I don't know why people who won the BG or Friend of Bank wouldn't, given the marginal amount of money required to win those services yesterday - I would probably look at Pass, Render, or Tyrith for my voting choice. I could be talked into TheJackal and would like to have more information on MrW as he has become a person of some prominence based on his inheritance.

[SnDvls]

But yeah, I guess Alan did use it first -- I hadn't even said "saved" -- um, without the quotes. But my thinking still stands -- I think the focus is on sal and mau when I'm suggesting more viable (and still alive, with allegiance unknown) candidates for, uh, "saving" SnDvls.

I've got no problems discussion your other canidates, but won't discuss me because there is nothing to discuss about me I'm good.

there are 4 names that jump out at me from the voting from yesterday and all 4 were within 10-12 posts of each other.

Tyrith, Clap, Path & Jackyl

they even paired up in their votes so I'd bet we have 2 wolves in this group is my thinking.

discuss??

[Tyrith]

I've got no problems discussion your other canidates, but won't discuss me because there is nothing to discuss about me I'm good.

there are 4 names that jump out at me from the voting from yesterday and all 4 were within 10-12 posts of each other.

Tyrith, Clap, Path & Jackyl

they even paired up in their votes so I'd bet we have 2 wolves in this group is my thinking.

discuss??

Remember the constraint that both path and I had to leave, so the timing is kind of funky.

[claphamsa]

I cannot think of the last time I went anywhere....

[Passacaglia]

hoops, I agree with you that the BG should come out -- if anything, that will make him safer the next day, since he will have less money. I can see the friend of the bank wanting to keep it secret -- there's info there that the wolves probably shouldn't have. Otherwise, why bid on it?

[claphamsa]

oh wait... I did go to NY ... NVM

[Tyrith]

hoops, I agree with you that the BG should come out -- if anything, that will make him safer the next day, since he will have less money. I can see the friend of the bank wanting to keep it secret -- there's info there that the wolves probably shouldn't have. Otherwise, why bid on it?

He doesn't have to tell us everything. There are selected pieces of information taht could be useful.

[Passacaglia]

11. Schmidty - purchased seer D2? medium trust


Just to reply to the question mark there -- I believe that Schmidty did purchase the seer.

[SnDvls]

OOG: I only have a 1/2 hour left today as the wife and I are going to the Dr. to hopefully find out the sex of our twins today.

so I will be placing a vote then and I would imagine anyone voting me should come under some heavy fire as I won't be back at all to defend myself

FYI

/end OOG

[Tyrith]

Well, I've held off as long as I can.

VOTE HOOPSGUY

[hoopsguy]

Just to reply to the question mark there -- I believe that Schmidty did purchase the seer.

Since it hasn't been challenged, I agree.

Of course, I could pull the same argument that Chief used with me ... "of course he says he purchased the seer, someone on the wolves grabbed it and is using that to their advantage". I don't think that is the case, though. I'm taking what he says at face value.

[Passacaglia]

I'm going to put in a vote on Tyrith. I'm not sure what I think of hoops, but I have two slight reasons now to vote for him.

VOTE TYRITH

[Passacaglia]

Since it hasn't been challenged, I agree.

Of course, I could pull the same argument that Chief used with me ... "of course he says he purchased the seer, someone on the wolves grabbed it and is using that to their advantage". I don't think that is the case, though. I'm taking what he says at face value.

You could, but I wouldn't believe that argument. I think I was exploring a similar argument with path this morning, but having looked back at the posts, I just wanted to get it out there that I believe Schmidty.

[hoopsguy]

Tyrith, you are making it pretty hard for me not to turn this into a "me vs you" argument. Even though you suggest as a villager that this would be an awfully bad path to take.

I would like to know if any other person in the game has been dissected and asked to give such a thorough accounting of their actions and thought processes as I have? Actually, never mind - I already know the answer to that question. I'll probably start making changes to how I play the game and see if I like the results any better.

You and Schmidty are both casting bad votes today. I had some less pleasant things typed out, but I'll hold my tongue on them for now. For the rest of the people trying to figure out where to go today, I would recommend looking somewhere else.

Where else? Heck if I know. Someone else can lead, I'll just follow along and blame them when it doesn't work out.

[SnDvls]

well I'm voting for 1 of my 4 before heading off.

Vote The Jackal

[path12]

Why are you guys putting saved in quotation marks all the time?

"I" don't know "what" you "mean".

[path12]

I can see the friend of the bank wanting to keep it secret -- there's info there that the wolves probably shouldn't have. Otherwise, why bid on it?

Disagree on this. They don't have to give a listing of who has what, but they should at least let us know at least what the overall listings show.....even if it's something like:

4 people have $0-$5000
6 people have $5,000-20,000
1 person has $150,000 (well, they should say who that would be).

There's no sense in us getting bids if we're keeping the information secret. The more time that passes without information the more I think the wolves are winning bids......

[Alan T]

Well.. I waited as long as I could, but I have to leave work. Thursday is my night going out, so I won't be back until around 9:15 or 9:20pm EST, then have BB-BBCF sim to run.. so I doubt I'll have much time to catch up before deadline.

Hoops, you seem much different in your defense today than I have seen in the past, and I honestly do not have an idea on how to read it. If I'm wrong about you, then sorry... It wouldn't be the first time and probably not the last. I don't see anything else with a better trail for today's vote though.


Vote Hoopsguy

[hoopsguy]

That works. I'll go into self-preservation mode and cast the vote for someone who already has a vote in an effort to make it to tomorrow. But if/when I'm gone I think Alan is the person that you had better get a handle on, pronto.

Tyrith might be bad, but he isn't an agenda-setter the way that Alan is. He isn't going to string you guys along for days at a time. So if I'm not around after the deadline, take a look at him. I would consider it a bigger priority than learning about MrW, who should have the most money.

[hoopsguy]

Tyrith or Jackal - I don't trust either one very much, but Tyrith is at least playing the game. So I'll vote Jackal, in an effort to reward the engaged player when in doubt.

VOTE THEJACKAL

[hoopsguy]

Secondary reason for the vote - slight degree more trust for SnDvls (who voted here) than for Pass (who voted Tyrith). Also, I think that Pass may be trying to position me into voting for Tyrith, who I have expressed concerns about earlier in the game.

I believe that makes the vote 3-2-1 right now (Me-Jackal-Tyrith).

[Mr. Wednesday]

14. Mr. Wednesday - would really like to know what he was doing yesterday, as he suggesting he was going to bid big but doesn't appear to have won a service.
I bid $10k for the PI and obviously didn't win the bid.

I don't recall what I said about how much I was going to bid then. I've said that I'm going to go big today, and I am.

[Mr. Wednesday]

I'm going to cast one vote now, and I'm willing to cast another later.

VOTE THE JACKAL

[path12]

Clap, did you bid on something yesterday?

[Barkeep49]

Current tally:
Hoopsguy – Schmidty (575), Tyrith (696), Hoops (704)
Tyrith – Pass (698)
Jackal – Sndvls (701), Hoops (706), Mr. W (709)

[claphamsa]

Clap, did you bid on something yesterday?
yes. I bid about 15+K for the seer ability :(

[claphamsa]

Im kinda woried abotu jackall.... hes usualy very talkative and analytical... hes not doign that now!

[path12]

I'm almost positive that a cutthroat is getting some heat today. I'm just not sure who.

--Schmidty comes out firing at hoops re the saldana scan.
--Alan is also questioning hoops. Alan is correct that hoops is not reacting as he normally would to the questioning (IMO).
--hoops looks at Tyrith.
--Tyrith thinks he's gone soon but also has doubts about hoops.
--Pass mentions SnD getting votes yesterday
--SnD "nothing to see here", save debate, ends up tossing out names of Tyrith, path, clap and Jackal (who hasn't been mentioned). Tyrith and my votes were specifically time related, vibe of trying to point elsewhere. Also unhappy with Arles, wants replacement (because not helping cutthroats??)
--Tyrith votes hoops, Pass votes Tyrith (not sure why).
--votes start coming in on Jackal.

All this is just thinking out loud so to speak. I don't see any clues from saldana for anyone he was really out for, that night kill is still weird in my mind. I wouldn't be surprised if there were two wolves in the SnD, hoops, Arles group.

[claphamsa]

FYI if anyone cares, I think it is very important we get the seer ability tongiht... and manage to use it! Cuz at this point its just all arguing. I plan on bidding!

[Barkeep49]

I'm leaving shortly til just before deadline. Telle has all of the info for Arles and has tentatively agreed to play in his place. Hopefully she'll step in tonight.

[path12]

FYI if anyone cares, I think it is very important we get the seer ability tongiht... and manage to use it! Cuz at this point its just all arguing. I plan on bidding!

I won't be bidding, I had to use the little cash I had on hand to change my beneficiary from saldana to someone else.

[Passacaglia]

Pass votes Tyrith (not sure why).

Sorry if that wasn't totally clear. Part of me is worried that he's going after hoops, who is #1 or #2 in the known money count, and another part of me is worried that he tried to "save" SnDvls yesterday.

[claphamsa]

fyi Im getting drunk tonight, so if i ramble ignore me :)

[Passacaglia]

Secondary reason for the vote - slight degree more trust for SnDvls (who voted here) than for Pass (who voted Tyrith). Also, I think that Pass may be trying to position me into voting for Tyrith, who I have expressed concerns about earlier in the game.

I believe that makes the vote 3-2-1 right now (Me-Jackal-Tyrith).

I'll admit that I chose Tyrith over SnDvls because of your suspicion of him. I figured that if everyone was going to "reject" my discussion of SnDvls, I should at least put in a vote for my 1a target, the guy I think most likely to have saved him if he was a wolf, which was Tyrith (and I discussed why I thought Tyrith over the other guys -- if you want, I'll dig it up).

[claphamsa]

is everyone resting for deadline?????????????????????

[Schmidty]

I might just go to bed and get a few hours of sleep before work since it's so quiet. Plus, there's nothing else I can do.

VOTE HOOPS IN '08!!!!!

[hoopsguy]

Back, but don't see that much has changed since I started my two hour commute.

Chief, since we are actually online at the same time do you want to ask me some questions rather than just falling in line with voting for me for a third straight day?

I really have little idea about Jackal's goodness or badness, but I know that removing me shrinks the number of Rich remaining and will drain money from the game in the form of my assets that are locked up in CDs no matter what I try to do between now and the deadline.

[hoopsguy]

Path, in regards to SnDvls/Arles - I believe if they are both wolves that he would be sending BK some strongly worded PMs on the topic rather than asking about it in the thread. There didn't seem like much downside for him, as a wolf, to link himself to a fellow wolf in the thread. So although I considered that idea I pretty quickly discarded it.

[DaddyTorgo]

hey look it's me. First time i've been able to get to the thread all day

[hoopsguy]

Only 6 of 14 votes in with less than 90 minutes to deadline. Hmm, this smells like a vote that is begging for deadline hijinks.

[claphamsa]

i think its just the way the game is....

[The Jackal]

Wow, I hadn't checked since this afternoon and suddenly there was a run on me. I've been reading the thread and keeping up, just haven't been overactive with my posting because I'm trying to get reads off people. I assure you I'm not a cutthroat, and I may be bidding on a service tonight - I didn't bid either of the first two nights. For self preservation's sake..

vote hoops guy

[The Jackal]

fyi Im getting drunk tonight, so if i ramble ignore me :)

Can I come?

[claphamsa]

sure... you know where i live right? fresh meade....

[The Jackal]

sure... you know where i live right? fresh meade....

Seriously? FRESH? I'm there. I have a bottle from the beginning of 2006 that I haven't opened. I don't know whether or not it will age well, though, just sitting in a bottle..

[claphamsa]

yeah I was gonna age mine.. :(

[claphamsa]

i just saw an add for lays ketchup chips.... thank god i dont live in canada!

[hoopsguy]

Jackal, given that one of us is probably going to end up on the chopping block tonight, let's spend a little time getting to know each other a bit better.

What was your thought process on not bidding on any service for the first couple of nights? How was that advantageous?

What kind of reads have you developed on people so far? Do you actually think that I'm a Cutthroat, or is the move strictly self-preservation like you typed? Believe me, I understand the self-preservation strategy - it is absolutely the right play and I didn't understand why Mauboy deviated from it last night when he was in jeopardy.

[claphamsa]

hoops clearly doesnt know mau....

[hoopsguy]

For what it is worth, there is very little chance that I'll be bidding on a service tonight. I'm not going to try and juggle that while figuring out where my money is going in the next hour, miscount, somehow live and end up busted by the IRS (per rules).

[hoopsguy]

hoops clearly doesnt know mau....

I'm learning, based on the last two games.

Clap, at some point you are going to have to make a decision if you want to collect your 15K for the day. Are there any questions that I can address while we are both around?

[DaddyTorgo]

I think ATM I am leaning towards either voting hoops or I guess voting jackel. I think we are seeing late votes in this game because of the fact that "unvoting" essentially costs 20k (or 10k if you don't bother to nullify your vote) and people are not willing to spend that cost.

I'm torn on hoops...part of me thinks he is reacting very "out of character" but part of me doesn't from what I have read. Of course, he has put one over on me before.

[hoopsguy]

DT, I agree with you on the direction of the vote. Short of having wolf knowledge, I think it ends up being a wasted vote going for someone else right now. And you have to get the vote in to get the 15K. So no dispute there.

I'll talk about whatever you want over the next hour to help you avoid one bad decision - I just don't know if the other option (Jackal) is much better in terms of getting a Cutthroat.

[path12]

I don't see any case whatsoever against Jackal except that he's been quiet. And in his second game in a group he doesn't know with somewhat unconventional rules I don't see that as a big thing.

[path12]

Path, in regards to SnDvls/Arles - I believe if they are both wolves that he would be sending BK some strongly worded PMs on the topic rather than asking about it in the thread. There didn't seem like much downside for him, as a wolf, to link himself to a fellow wolf in the thread. So although I considered that idea I pretty quickly discarded it.

That's a fair point.

[path12]

I'm willing to go another candidate besides either hoops or Jackal. If I have to decide between the two I'm going hoops, even though I'd rather have him get scanned because if he's good he's way too helpful to have around.

[claphamsa]

hoops... no. I dont really suspect you at all! I might... vote for you, but only if you tried to take my meade....

vote jackall

Ive played with him a number of times.... and hes very good at this. and very analytical! here he has been..... not.

I will trade votes for liquor! (im drinking tonihgt cuzI cant tommorow! #1 Vs #2 @ Oxford! gotta be on my game....)

[hoopsguy]

Path, if you think you can mobilize another candidate, good luck. I've got four votes right now with seven people still out there so I'm less than optimistic about a to-be-named-candidate#3.

[claphamsa]

please ignor me. ijust triped over my remote :(

[Lathum]

This has turned into Ping: Drunk Guy

[claphamsa]

ping?

[Alan T]

This has turned into Ping: Drunk Guy


You rung???



Actually not drunk, but just got home. Got to spend time doing the BB-BBCF sim, and don't really see much different here to really call my attention.. so I'll be back after deadline to see what happened.

[Mr. Wednesday]

I wouldn't say that I'm sanguine about voting Jackal off, but I'm even less happy with the idea of voting hoops off without a little more to go on.

[claphamsa]

kinda agre.. at least hoops is trying? jackall is being not himself, for no reason! and we KNWO nothign. swhy im bidding on seer. Ill even throw in the head coachign gig at wyoming :D