NBA Draft thread

[Samdari]

Being somewhat of a draftnik, I actually find the NBA draft far more interesting than the NBA. I am wondering what all your thoughts/predictions are for your favorite NBA teams/college players.

If you did not know, I am a die hard SU fan. There is no excitement for us as (a) we know where Carmelo is going and (b) its Denver.

So, I will make two predictions about this year's draft, one riser and one faller:

Riser: Troy Bell will vault into the first round. He was rated the best athlete in the draft, and noone doubts his ability to score in the NBA. He is ready to play/help right away, something attractive to teams at the end of the first round. My guess: Lakers.

Faller: TJ Ford. I know this will probably piss a lot of people off, but it seems to be happening. Once thought to be the easy choice as #4 pick, he has clearly ceded that title to Chris Bosh, and the #1 PG slot to Kirk Hinrich. He is undersized, and if that is true in the NBA, you need to be either a great shooter, or quicker than everyone else. Noone ever confused Ford with a shooter, and they found out in Chicago that he was not very quick. I see him falling out of the top 10. The Wizards will take him at 10, dooming whatever chance he had to succeed.

[Easy Mac]

Last I heard Denver was still trying to get rid of the #3. For some reason they either don't want Melo, or wan't something better in return.

I think Bosh is highly overrated. He didn't show me anything while at GT.

Ford is too small to be effective. He can't shoot, and I don't think he is enough like Jason Kidd to overcome that.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Darko rulez!

[TroyF]

Originally posted by Easy Mac
Last I heard Denver was still trying to get rid of the #3. For some reason they either don't want Melo, or wan't something better in return.

I think Bosh is highly overrated. He didn't show me anything while at GT.

Ford is too small to be effective. He can't shoot, and I don't think he is enough like Jason Kidd to overcome that.

The Denver thing is a myth, if for only one reason: The Nuggets couldn't afford the PR hit. They are actually more in love with the guy than they'll admit.

There are some rumors the Nuggets are going to package Camby and Rodney White for a middle/late first round pick. Who knows what they are interested in there.

I don't think Ford slips out of the top 10. He may slip, but someone will grab him early. He's better than people think. Maybe not a hall of fame worthy player, but he's got quicks and smarts.

The two names that have slipped (some believe out of round 1) that I think can help teams are David West and Luke Walton. Again, not all-stars or franchise guys, but I think these two can help virtually any team they go to right from the start.

One last note Samdari, I wouldn't be so harsh on the Nugs. Issel made a lot of stupid trades which nearly destroyed the organization. So far, Kiki has brought in a lot of talent and has some money to spend to get us better. If Carmelo is the franchise type guy I think he'll be, they'll surround him with the right people.

Don't forget, Kroenke owns the Rams and the Avalanche also. He knows how to build winners. He first had to get the Nuggets out of salary cap hell to do it. This won't be a black hole for Melo' if he's a player.

TroyF

[Easy Mac]

supposedly its a salary dump to the Blazers. I also heard they made be interested in getting Rasheed, but that may be a myth as well.

[TroyF]

Easy,

If the Nugs pass on Anthony and don't get a bigtime superstar in return (I'm talking Garnett like), they may as well get the Mayflower vans started up. :)

TroyF

[Samdari]

Originally posted by TroyF
I don't think Ford slips out of the top 10... he's got quicks...

Well, he did not measure particularly quick at the NBA version of the combine. If you are Iverson small, you better be Iverson quick, and I don' t think he is. I think he goes lotto, if not top 10, but that is a slip from 4.

Originally posted by TroyF
One last note Samdari, I wouldn't be so harsh on the Nugs. Issel made a lot of stupid trades which nearly destroyed the organization. So far, Kiki has brought in a lot of talent and has some money to spend to get us better. If Carmelo is the franchise type guy I think he'll be, they'll surround him with the right people.

Don't forget, Kroenke owns the Rams and the Avalanche also. He knows how to build winners. He first had to get the Nuggets out of salary cap hell to do it. This won't be a black hole for Melo' if he's a player.

I thought Georgia Frontiere owned the Rams? She was dancing with them when they won?

I am not so down on Denver as a team. I think they got a stud last year with Hilario, and might have a player in Skita. If White can play SG and they get Arenas, and Melo does not become Billy Owens, they have something. I also think Bzde... Bdze... umm, their coach, got more of out of his team than anyone last year.

My primary dissatisfaction is that it will take them a couple of years to be good, so for the next two years, I'll see Melo twice a year on tv. The cavs, on the other hand, will suck worse than the nugs, yet be the opening night game on TNT.

[Alf]

NBA Draft will be watched in France because at least Michael Pietrus (supposedly Top 15) & Boris Diaw (late 1st) should be drafted...

[mckerney]

Bell could, and I hope he does, end up with the Timberwolves. They may be dumping Terrell Brandon's salary soon which will help alot. If not, I hope they go for someone who is the player Joe Smith should be and can play tough inside.

Oh, and most overrated player in the draft is Rick Rickert. I know he's not projected to go in the first round currently, but the second round is too high for him. Having watched him all last year he's either not tough enough or just refusing to play tough around the basket. He mad a huge mistake and is just not ready yet.

[mckerney]

Alf - Please tell me those two are better than Frederick Weiss.

[TroyF]

Sam,

You're right on Ford to a point. I still think he'll be better than what people think.

Kroenke owns the team with Georgia. He's a guy who likes to stay out of the spotlight.

I don't think White will be a shooting gaurd anytime soon. If the flies on the wall around Denver are believable, he may be traded tonight. The Nuggets will be bringing in some new guards this offseason. Artest is the top candidate, but there will be others.

TroyF

[Neuqua]

It appears like the Bulls may draft Dwayne Wade out of Marquette if he's available at #7. With JWill going down, I don't see us getting equal value in a trade and so this may be the best pick for us. Although I have heard a few rumors about the Bulls going after Pietrus who has looked great from what I've seen of him.

[Samdari]

Neuqua - the Bulls pick 7th.

[John Galt]

I don't understand the Ford defenders. He isn't as short as people thought (based on Chicago's measurements) despite the fact that the media continues to say he is shorter. I believe that, but that is where I stop.

Ford is Jacque Vaughan (who is actually slightly underrated these days). He isn't that quick, has a good head for the same, and will probably play average to below average defense in the NBA. He is going to be a decent PG for his career that his team will constantly be looking to replace, but who could do well on a winning team. In other words, he should be a late 1st round pick. The so-called intangibles don't offset a poor shooting PG.

[Neuqua]

Oops, I gotta stop waking up so early.

[cmp]

I have the feeling that Ford will be like Mateen Cleaves in the NBA.

[Samdari]

Well, despite being the first one to "rip" Ford here, I tend to think the Vaughn comparisons are closer than Cleaves. I got a chuckle out of your post nonetheless.

[BreizhManu]

Originally posted by mckerney
Alf - Please tell me those two are better than Frederick Weiss.

of course they are

[TroyF]

I, fo one, don't think that Ford compares to Vaughn at all. I mean zero.

Lets look at the differences:

In Vaughn's senior year, he averaged 7 shot attempts, a little over 4 free throw attempts, and just over 2 rebounds a game. (total averages were 10 points, 6 assists, 2 boards, and a )

Last year Ford averaged 12 shot attempts per game, went to line 6 times a game, and added 4 boards per game. (totals were 15 points, 8 assists, 4 boards, and a 2.4-1 TO ratio)

Cleaves finished worse than Ford in about every statistical category as well. (half the boards, less points, less average trips to the FT line, etc.)

Cleaves and Vaughn are two different style players. I think Ford is more of a combination of the two. He's a more gifted passer than either of the two IMO.

I also don't get the "can't shoot" part. Everyone acts as though shooting is a set in stone skill that never develops. He's 20 years old. There isn't any reason he can't work and develop that part of his game more.

I liken him to a Tony Parker type player. He's an inch or two shorter, but just as fast and probably better with the ball. I don't see any MVP awards in his future, but I do think he can be a starting point guard on a good team.

TroyF

[mckerney]

Originally posted by BreizhManu
of course they are

Well, I suppose they couldn't be any worse. I still remember when the Knicks drafted Weiss, I just sat there thinking, "What the hell? They picked who?" Such a waste...

[John Galt]

Originally posted by TroyF
I, fo one, don't think that Ford compares to Vaughn at all. I mean zero.

Lets look at the differences:

In Vaughn's senior year, he averaged 7 shot attempts, a little over 4 free throw attempts, and just over 2 rebounds a game. (total averages were 10 points, 6 assists, 2 boards, and a )

Last year Ford averaged 12 shot attempts per game, went to line 6 times a game, and added 4 boards per game. (totals were 15 points, 8 assists, 4 boards, and a 2.4-1 TO ratio)

Cleaves finished worse than Ford in about every statistical category as well. (half the boards, less points, less average trips to the FT line, etc.)

Cleaves and Vaughn are two different style players. I think Ford is more of a combination of the two. He's a more gifted passer than either of the two IMO.

I also don't get the "can't shoot" part. Everyone acts as though shooting is a set in stone skill that never develops. He's 20 years old. There isn't any reason he can't work and develop that part of his game more.

I liken him to a Tony Parker type player. He's an inch or two shorter, but just as fast and probably better with the ball. I don't see any MVP awards in his future, but I do think he can be a starting point guard on a good team.

TroyF

Vaughn and Ford played in different systems and had different demands placed upon them based on surrounding talent. I agree as college players they were not the same. I think, as pro players, they will be the same. The belief in intangibles in a PG is usually a sign to run, run away. PG's in the NBA are TOTALLY different than PG's in the college ranks. The transition is the hardest for probably any position on the court. Players with less quickness, less shots, but good heads are usually the ones that don't make the transition as well.

And yes, he is young and can develop his shot, but most players don't. The physical play in the NBA usualy makes people get worse. The same thing was said about Larry Hughes' shot, but he still is lucky if he is above 40%. Jerry Stackhouse is now a "veteran" and he can't hit the broadside of a barn. And don't get me started on the new mad bomber - Antoine Walker. Some players do improve their shot when they go to the NBA - most don't.

And I don't think he is as quick as Parker. We both agree that he can be a good PG for a good team. The problem is that good teams don't pick in the top ten. He should be a good pickup in the late first-round - instead, he'll be seen as a bust of a lottery pick.

[TroyF]

John,

Stackhouse and Hughes problem isn't their shooting, it's their shot selection. The two are VERY different things.

TroyF

[John Galt]

Originally posted by TroyF
John,

Stackhouse and Hughes problem isn't their shooting, it's their shot selection. The two are VERY different things.

TroyF

You are probably right about Stackhouse, but Hughes just can't shoot. It is always hard to separate the two, though. When you always shoot and don't make that many, you never know if you just can't shoot or if you have a peanut for a brain. :)

[tucker342]

Originally posted by John Galt

Ford is Jacque Vaughan (who is actually slightly underrated these days). He isn't that quick, has a good head for the same, and will probably play average to below average defense in the NBA. He is going to be a decent PG for his career that his team will constantly be looking to replace, but who could do well on a winning team. In other words, he should be a late 1st round pick. The so-called intangibles don't offset a poor shooting PG.

I completely agree with your assessment of Ford

[TroyF]

Originally posted by John Galt
You are probably right about Stackhouse, but Hughes just can't shoot. It is always hard to separate the two, though. When you always shoot and don't make that many, you never know if you just can't shoot or if you have a peanut for a brain. :)

True enough. :) I don't think Hughes has the heart or the work ethic of Ford though.

It's what makes the draft in any sport fun. I love the differing opinions.

TroyF

[Samdari]

Originally posted by TroyF
I don't think Hughes has the heart or the work ethic of Ford though
Agreed. We may have also found the lone NBA backcourt starter who is a worse shooter than Ford.

[TroyF]

Originally posted by Samdari
Agreed. We may have also found the lone NBA backcourt starter who is a worse shooter than Ford.

Really?

I don't think he'll be the worst, or even second worse in the league. We'll see.

TroyF

[Samdari]

Well I was more trying to channel Hughes, but look at Ford's 3pt %. Shudder. Repeat.

[Craptacular]

I'll have to try and catch some of this tonight. Even though the Bucks pissed me off to no end by trading Glenn Robinson and Ray Allen, while keeping Sam Cassell and signing Anthony Mason, I'm interested to see which way they go in the draft. As usual, they need an inside force, but probably won't be in a position to draft a good big man (I'm not too thrilled with the likes of Kaman, etc). Do they grab another PG/SG assuming The Glove is going bye-bye? I'm not sold on TJ Ford (if he's still there at #8), but I definitely hope they don't take Heinrich. The Bucks have Desmond Mason and Michael Redd at the 2 (3 for a small lineup), but I still wouldn't mind seeing them draft Dwayne Wade or Reece Gaines (Gaines is from Madison). The last time the Bucks picked in the top 10, they drafted Dirk Nowitzki ... and promptly traded him AND Pat Garrity to the Mavs for Robert Traylor. Yeah, that worked out real well. :rolleyes:

[cincyreds]

The Mavericks have the last pick, so I am hoping that they can get a pretty good defender. Somebody who can help us out down low in the paint.

We need a guy that can push his weight around. I will be watching tonight to see what all develops.

The Draft hoopla is pretty good here.

[JeeberD]

I've been hearing that the Mavs may take a 6-11 dude from the Senegal (I think). Supposedly he's good defensivly, but very raw...

[SunDancer]

Why is the NBA letting ESPN taking the draft to the same place as the NFL Draft. I like the city-by-city tour. Anyone else fear a Mel Kiper Jr.-clone will show up? I like TNT's NBA Draft Coverage before losing the rights.

[Schmidty]

Darko!!!!! :D

[korme]

Denver... new blue color? I don't like..... that yellow on the logo looks terrible, how about they just stick to the navy/gold.

[MrBug708]

Shorty, different Uni's mean more wins, didn't you know?

[korme]

Originally posted by JeeberD
I've been hearing that the Mavs may take a 6-11 dude from the Senegal (I think). Supposedly he's good defensivly, but very raw...

The Cavs would probably tell them to not do it.

A very raw player from a few years back out of a crazy country, DeSagana Diop. He's still bad.

[korme]

Big boos for Riley! AND HE WAVES AND SAYS HELLO! hahahahaha

[kiwiLB57]

Hoping that Kirk Penney gets picked up. He would be the 2nd New Zealander to play in the NBA.

[damnMikeBrown]

You know, I fully set out to watch the draft, but I just can't take it anymore. Every interview with a draft pick, and I just flip the channel. I've now permanently flipped. I can't take listening to them anymore.

[bigdawg2003]

#1 - LeBron James - Cleveland - LeBron will be an All-Star and MVP canidate some day. I'm not gonna proclaim him a HOFer before he plays

#2 - Darko Milicic - Detroit - People talk about how soft he is, but somebody on ESPN made the point that he'll have Ben Wallace clearing the paint for him. He'll be better off the bat than people expect and be one of the better NBA big men in time.

#3 - Carmelo Anthony - Denver - I'll say LeBron will be an MVP candidate, but I'll say Carmelo will be special. After seeing the Final Four in person, I have no doubts that he will be Rookie of the Year and will be one of the top 10 players in the NBA in a few years.

#4 - Chris Bosh - Toronto - I think if he and Carmelo switched schools, the results would have been similar. Maybe Syracuse wouldn't have won the title, but they still would've been very good. Having said that, I haven't seen him enough to say he's as special as Anthony, but he should be pretty good.

#5 - Dwayne Wade - Miami - The first pick of the night that doesn't make a lot of sense to me. What are they gonna do about Eddie Jones? Wade is definately good enough to be the #5 pick, but Miami could've done better by taking one of the two big PGs (Hinrich, Ford).

#6 - Chris Kaman - Los Angeles Clippers - I wondered how the Clippers would fuck this draft up. I should've seen it coming. Kaman will be a bust, just like every player like him (Pryzbilla and Mihm ring a bell).

#7 - Kirk Hinrich - Chicago - Hinrich wouldn't be a Bull if it weren't for Jay Williams' motorcycle accident. I think he'll be a quality starting PG, but won't be a special player (and by special, I mean multiple time All-Star and MVP candidate).

#8 - TJ Ford - Milwaukee - Being from Austin, I've seen quite a bit of Ford, and I think the height concerns are silly. He measured six feet tall in Chicago and shot well in private workouts. I think in time Chicago will regret taking Hinrich over Ford, but not because Hinrich will suck.

#9 - Mike Sweetney - New York - Yeah, just what the Knicks need, another undersized big man. Just because he went to the same school as Ewing doesn't mean he'll grow four inches and be as good. At least he's in the East so he won't have to go up against all of those Western Conference big men, who would eat him alive.

#10 - Jarvis Hayes - Washington - EDIT: Havok said it better than I, and I totally agree with him, so I'll just paste his response.


"I think you meant to say, that he'll be average until we trade him then he'll become the best rebounder/defender in the league (Ben Wallace). Or we'll become a 20ppg/10rpg PF (Rashed Wallace) or he'll become a 22ppg SG (Richard Hamliton). The list goes on and on........"


#11 - Mickael Pietrus - Golden State - Everything I've read about this guy is good, and the limited game footage I've seen is good. The Warriors seem to be turning it around; I think this will end up working. Glad to see they didn't take that high schooler Ebi; that would've been a TERRIBLE pick, even if it ensured Arenas re-signing.

#12 - Nick Collison - Seattle - The next Christian Laettner. Another of many guys who will go down as "Great college player, average at best pro".

#13 - Marcus Banks - Memphis - I don't like UNLV players, and I think Gaines will be better. Surprised the Grizz didn't take Lampe, seeing as they have Lorenzen Wright at Center and West loves the international guys. If Pietrus had fallen, he would've been the pick here. Too bad the Rockets couldn't have kept this pick.

#14 - Luke Ridnour - Seattle - Glad to see the Sonics didn't waste both of their first round picks. Will probably be nearly or as good as Hinrich as a pro. I think the Magic had their eye on Gaines, so I expect him to go next.

#15 - Reece Gaines - Orlando - No surprise here. T-Mac is one of my favorite players, and seeing how Grant Hill has worked out, I think Orlando deserves a little good luck. Also, The Louisville-Memphis C-USA tournament game this season was one of the best games this season.

#16 - Troy Bell - Boston - Is Red Auerbach dead? If so, did the Celtics' ability to draft well go with him? Reminds me of the Fred Jones and Juan Dixon picks last year. If he had gone in the 2nd round, I would've called it a good pick. But at #16, it's a bad value pick.

#17 - Zarko Cabarkapa - Phoenix - It's always fun to hear Stern try to pronounce these crazy foreign names, so in that respect I like the pick. They struck gold last year with Stoudemire last year, but something tells me Zarko won't be that good.

#18 - David West - New Orleans - Similar to Bell; a player that would've been a good pick in the late first-early second round, but is bad value in the mid first round. I think he'll be good though, but you have to question every move by New Orleans with the two stooges for owners and the two moron coaches.

#19 - Aleksandar Pavlovic - Utah - I hate the Jazz, so I hope he turns out to be a total stiff. I hate the Jazz because I was at the Conference Final game between Utah and Houston that saw Stockton hit the game winner to send them to the finals. Was that 1998? I wrote that before they made the pick. I have a feeling he could be another Kirilenko for the Jazz, which pisses me off. Why can't they channel the drafting abilities of Boston?

#20 - Dahntay Jones - Boston - It seems Boston will be trading Bell and Jones to Memphis for Banks and the #27 pick. Great trade for the Celtics, and what is Memphis thinking. Just because you barely missed out on LeBron doesn't mean you should just throw away your draft. But like Vitale said; "Jerry West knows what he's doing." Right now I have my doubts.

#21 - Boris Diaw - Atlanta - Like most foreign players, I know nothing about him, but I do know he had a first round promise from Utah a few years ago, so I assume the Hawks are getting a good player.

#22 - Zoran Planinic - New Jersey - See Diaw, Boris. Totally clueless.

#23 - Travis Outlaw - Portland - Figures the Blazers would take a kid named Outlaw. Should fit in perfectly with that group if he lives up to his name. Outside of LeBron, none of the high schoolers seem to be good enough to be in the draft.

#24 - Brian Cook - Los Angeles Lakers - Just like Utah. I hope he turns out to be the next Mark Madsen in terms of total suckitude. Just heard Kobe will become a free agent next season. YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Suck on that Laker bandwagoners! OK, once again all of that was written before the draft, and once again they got a player who has a good shot of earning his keep. I gotta stop doing that.

#25 - Carlos Delfino - Detroit - Foreign player=BD knows nothing about him. He's from Arg-entina, so I assume he's a Ginobili clone, which is good for Detroit.

#26 - Ndudi Ebi - Minnesota - Where'd they get this first round pick? Did they pull a fast one on David Stern? Looks like they're looking for the next Garnett; not going to get it here.

#27 - Kendrick Perkins - Memphis - I'm glad Minnesota and Memphis took these guys so San Antonio wouldn't be tempted. COME ON SAN ANTONIO, TAKE LAMPE!!!!!!!!!! Oh yeah, Perkins will be a bust, just like Ebi and Outlaw.

#28 - Leandrinho Barbosa - San Antonio - It may not be Lampe, but we've had luck with foreign point guards at the #28 spot. Knowing the buyout troubles with Lampe, it makes sense for Lampe to go to Mark Cuban and the Mavs.

#29 - Josh Howard - Dallas - What are the Mavs doing drafting a guy who can play defense? Makes no sense, they need a guy who can score. It's all about putting the ball in the basket BAY-BEE!

There's no way I'm doing this for the 2nd round, I'm done.

[korme]

Are the Sonics officially the 'Sonics' now? Everyone calls them the Sonics, but I do like tradition, and during the draft, they should still say 'The Seattle Supersonics select'... but nooooooooo, Stern had to say Sonics. I do not like this change.

[TroyF]

Originally posted by Shorty3281
Denver... new blue color? I don't like..... that yellow on the logo looks terrible, how about they just stick to the navy/gold.

I actually kind of like it. My favorite sports uniforms of all time are the powder blue of the Chargers. Too early to tell, but I think at first glance these have the same feel.

TroyF

[Sublime]

Can't wait to see who my C's take at 16 and 20

[daedalus]

I like Ford as a player but I'm with JG on this, I think he'll be a nice part player in the NBA more than anything. I think he'll find it tougher to simply blow by people in the NBA. Along with the aforementioned Vaughn and Cleaves, a possible comparison may be Charlie Ward. Unlike the other two, though, he's now developed a pretty decent shot (in the few times I've seen the Knicks, I think).

I think somebody is going to get a heck of a bargain in the 2nd with Blake, though. I dig that guy as a point.

Kind of a weird pick for the Warriors, though. Yet another guy to play the same position they are stocked at?

[Havok]

#10 - Jarvis Hayes - Washington - I know nothing about this guy, but knowing it's the Wizards, he'll probably end up sucking.


I think you meant to say, that he'll be average until we trade him then he'll become the best rebounder/defender in the league (Ben Wallace). Or we'll become a 20ppg/10rpg PF (Rashed Wallace) or he'll become a 22ppg SG (Richard Hamliton). The list goes on and on........

[Schmidty]

Troy Bell at 16? What a wasted pick.

[daedalus]

Havok . . . you're a bitter, bitter man. :D

I can't believe that Brian Cook is available halfway through this draft. I know he is supposedly dropping but, dang, that's a bit far.

[korme]

Originally posted by Sublime
Can't wait to see who my C's take at 16 and 20

Surprise, surprise, Troy Bell. 10 picks higher than he was expected to go, but the Celts do need a PG (and a C), so I don't think this was such a bad pick. I like Bell alot, actually.

[cmp]

Looks like Detroit might be able to pick up some good talent at #25. Maybe Diaw will fall to 25, or possibly Lampe. Carlos Delfino might be the pick though.

[Neuqua]

Something the Bulls wanted to address this summer was to find a flat-out shooter.

Hinrich should fit in nicely with the team, especially if he can continue nailing the outside shots he's going to get from teams who double Curry (who is a beast by the way.)

I admit, I was very surprised when it happened, but now that I think about it, it does make sense.

[Sublime]

Originally posted by Shorty3281
Surprise, surprise, Troy Bell. 10 picks higher than he was expected to go, but the Celts do need a PG (and a C), so I don't think this was such a bad pick. I like Bell alot, actually.

I like Bell also...but there must be a trade or something in the mix b/c they could've taken him at 20, no one was planning on taking him at 17,18, or 19, i don't believe.

[daedalus]

David West is "undersize" at 6'9 1/2? A shorter Drew Gooden? I thought Elton Brand measured out at barely 6'9? I also thought Gooden measured out at 6'8-6'9 at the camp?

[Schmidty]

Originally posted by gold101
Looks like Detroit might be able to pick up some good talent at #25. Maybe Diaw will fall to 25, or possibly Lampe. Carlos Delfino might be the pick though.

I'm hoping for Delfino.

[cmp]

Dahntay Jones? What is going on?

[daedalus]

Meh? Dahntay Jones?

If the trade that Andy Katz mentioned is true, it *probably* makes sense.

I'm probably bias, by the way. I couldn't stand how much he would showoff after making big plays. And I *am* a UNC fan.

[cmp]

With Bell and Jones being picked it's just pushing better players Detroit's way. I'm excited.

[cmp]

Why is Lampe falling? Anyone have the story behind that. There has to be a reason for it.

[Schmidty]

Originally posted by gold101
Why is Lampe falling? Anyone have the story behind that. There has to be a reason for it.

Contract issues that have popped up in the past day or so are causing him to fall.

[daedalus]

Wow. Did the Lakers luck out. That's flippin' amazing.

[Schmidty]

I kind of hope the Pistons take Lampe and stick him over seas for a year or so. I also wouldn't mind Baby Shaq or Delfino.

[daedalus]

Ending up with Lampe and Milicic would be fairly insane, talent-wise. That would be nice for Joe Dumars.

[cthomer5000]

my 30 second review of the draft:

Technical difficulties when going to one of the correspondents
I wonder: Why is Mike Tirico's microphone cranked up so loud?
I wonder: Why is Rex Grossman is telling me about some croation guy no one has ever seen play in person?
Said Croation guy looks stiff as a board on every layup attempt in highlights.
The TrailBlazers draft a player named "Outlaw". Insert punchline here.
Technical difficulties are fixed, and correspondent refers to Phil Jackson as Jerry West during his brief segment.
I realize "that's enough of this shit."

[korme]

Howard to the Mavs... hmm.. I like Josh, but he may not get any PT in big D.

[cmp]

Lampe and Sofo still available. Never thought that they would both be left right now.

[SunDancer]

I forgot I was watching the NBA Draft instead of NFL Draft.

[thesloppy]

Am I alone in thinking that the drafting of Luke Walton by the Lakers is another sign of the apocalypse? As if Bill Walton didn't spend ENOUGH time talking about the Lakers already.

{Bill Walton Voice}

The LAKERS have such POISE and TALENT. Showing the heart of true CHAMPIONS, thjey just need to STEP IT UP, and DOMINATE the league like only they can.

Other teams have no HOPE against the LAKERS, since they can't STEP IT UP, due to their lack of said CHAMPIONSHIP heart, and therefore, ability to DOMINATE.

One of their bench players should sneak over to the LAKERS bench and wring out SHAQ'S TOWEL, in the hopes of extracting some DOMINATION juice, which they could then inject into their HEARTS, which are clearly inadequate when compared to the LAKERS', due to lack of previously mentioned CHAMPIONSHIP.

Also, THROW DOWN FRUIT OF MY LOINS, THROW DOWN!!!

{/Bill Walton Voice}

[mckerney]

Hell, Bill Walton was already refering to Mark Madsen as one of the elite powerforwardsin the league, and Robert Horrey a 'top player in the league', I don't think I want to hear how much he sucks up to them now that his son plays for them. Damn I hate that guy.

[IMetTrentGreen]

"and they found out in Chicago that he was not very quick"

this is the single least-informed thing i have ever read in my entire bbs reading career

[kiwiLB57]

no........Kirk Penney (http://sports.espn.go.com/nbadraft/d03/tracker/player?playerId=18536) ......

must.....seek....help......

help

[MylesKnight]

Originally posted by kiwiLB57
no.......Kirk Penney (http://sports.espn.go.com/nbadraft/d03/tracker/player?playerId=18536) ......must.....seek....help......

help

Penny's problem is that he is a Foreign Born player who decided to come to the states and play College Ball. If he'd just stayed overseas and played, he would've been a 1st Round Pick.. or so it seems.. ;)

[MylesKnight]

Oh, and let me not forget, congrats to the T-wolves on another solid Draft...

Jesus, McHale & Co., are you trying to make KG leave the Twin Cities or what?

Rick fricking Rickert? Is the Joel Pryzbilla trade coming soon?

By the way, hey David Stern, give the Draft back to TNT... ESPN may be a lot of things, but a solid home for the NBA it definitely is not.. TNT had the Draft down to a science, while ESPN absolutely blew all night long this evening.

[JeeberD]

Originally posted by JeeberD
I've been hearing that the Mavs may take a 6-11 dude from the Senegal (I think). Supposedly he's good defensivly, but very raw...

Hmmm, he slipped to the second round and my Rox got him. Sounds like they lucked out in getting him!

Malick Badiane
The line: 6-11, 225, 19 years old
Pronunciation Muh-leek Bahd-ee-en
The stats: 11.7 ppg and 8.9 rpg on 48 percent shooting
NBA comparison: Ben Wallace

The skinny: Badiane is a beast. He already has an NBA body and has tremendous strength. He's very long, but his frame is still muscular. He plays aggressively, and it pays off in rebounds and shot blocking. He runs the floor very well and is a good jumper. He has long arms and is known as a very hard worker. Offensively, he's much more raw, though his game is beginning to emerge. Several of the NBA's top African scouts feel he'll eventually become a force on the offensive end, as well. Of all of the young, African prospects to come to the NBA in the last 20 years, Badiane has the most offensive potential of any since Hakeem Olajuwon if you're willing to wait a few years.

The context: Badiane spent last season playing for T.V. Lagen in Germany. Lagen is a second-division farm team for the Opel Skyliners. The German league has gotten better over the last few years, but its second division is pretty weak. Before that he was in Senegal, where the basketball development is minimal. In other words, his experience playing pro in Germany last season can't count for too much.

The kitchen sink: Badiane emerged on the scene during an impressive showing at the ABCD camp last July. He emerged from the camp as one of the top 30 players. He actually tried to find a way to get to the United States and play high school ball last year but was ruled ineligible. A strong workout earlier this month during the Chicago pre-draft camp helped his stock. Badiane worked out with a fierce intensity that impressed many teams. After the workout he told Insider his favorite player was Ben Wallace. That's a good thing, because early in his career he's going to have to be that type of player.

Where will he go? The Hornets and Celtics have been eyeing him at No. 18 and No. 20, respectively. Doubt he slips past the Mavs at No. 29.

[Samdari]

Originally posted by IMetTrentGreen
"and they found out in Chicago that he was not very quick"

this is the single least-informed thing i have ever read in my entire bbs reading career

Ummm, no, its based on actual data.

The NBA has a drill they use to measure quickness. Ford bombed it.

Lane Agility: Wisconsin's Penney led the field with a time of 10.44 seconds. Wade (10.56), Jason Gardner (10.66) and Jameer Nelson (10.66) also had great scores in the drill.

Among the top prospects taking the test, Wade had the best score at 10.56 seconds. Howard finsished in 10.89, Hinrich in 10.98, Ridnour 11.0, Darko 11.3 and Kaman 11.33. The rest: Anthony clocked in at 11.4, Ford at 11.45, Collison at 11.62, Bosh at 11.8, Cook at 11.87, West at 12.18, Sweetney at 12.9 and Podkolzine at 13.4.

Please note that the above shows Ford has less footspeed than Chris Kaman.

You may not agree that Ford is not quick, but he does not measure so, and that statement is certainly not "uninformed", as your response is.

[daedalus]

First, let me say that I am in no way questioning the information, Samdari.

But I find it odd for Ford to finish so far into the front court area. Granted, it's, like, 1/2 to a 1/3 of a second difference for most but it's just wierd to see. To the naked eyes (in the few games I saw him), I didn't have much doubt as to Ford's quickness. I mean, not Iverson-quick but certainly above average. And certainly not middle of the frontcourt-range. That's just funky.

[Samdari]

Oh, question the information all you want, I certainly did not gather it. I sincerely doubt Ford has less footspeed than Kaman. Seeing them both play, that simply cannot be the case, right? I was merely making the point that my original statement about NBA teams discovering that Ford was not as quick as they had thought was actually quite well-informed, whether one agrees with it or not.

Personally I think he could go either way. Lots of guys who were successful in college by being "heady" and "savvy" without being particularly athletic have flamed out in the pros (Cleaves and Simon come to mind). Ford could go that way. But he looked more athletic playing, didn't he? And shooting is a skill rather than an inherent physical attribute. It can be learned.

I've got to say, though, given MJ's draft history, that I am far more down on Ford today than I was yesterday, if he did indeed make that pick.

[cincyreds]

nice post bigdawg of the first round picks, very nice.

Thanks!

The Mavericks got Josh Howard, which ESPN says is a steal at that late of a pick.

I think he will get some PT, especially if shows that he is not afraid to get physical in the paint.

LaFrentz is a good offensive player, be he has no defensive skills to matchup down low, he gets pushed around way to much for his size.

The Mavericks traded their second round pick, which was probably good to get another second rd pick later on.

I actually liked ESPN's draft coverage, even there were a few glitches, but for their first year I'd give them a B- for doing the draft.

[TroyF]

Originally posted by Samdari
Oh, question the information all you want, I certainly did not gather it. I sincerely doubt Ford has less footspeed than Kaman. Seeing them both play, that simply cannot be the case, right? I was merely making the point that my original statement about NBA teams discovering that Ford was not as quick as they had thought was actually quite well-informed, whether one agrees with it or not.

Personally I think he could go either way. Lots of guys who were successful in college by being "heady" and "savvy" without being particularly athletic have flamed out in the pros (Cleaves and Simon come to mind). Ford could go that way. But he looked more athletic playing, didn't he? And shooting is a skill rather than an inherent physical attribute. It can be learned.

I've got to say, though, given MJ's draft history, that I am far more down on Ford today than I was yesterday, if he did indeed make that pick.

Isn't it funny how WHO makes the pick is almost as important as the pick itself? I mean, when everyone thought the Celtics were the ones who took Troy Bell, everyone thought it was typical Celtic draft strategy.

A second later they found out Jerry West was the guy who made the pick and Bell suddenly becomes a guy to watch out for. :)

As for Ford, I don't have any doubt he's quick. I don't care what the agility drill showed. I liken it to the NFL combine BS. Terrell Davis was supposed to be too slow. You ever see him get caught from behind? :)

Ford's success in the NBA hinges on two things: His shot and his defense. I think he'll improve the shot enough to be an effective, solid point guard who will lead his team to a better record than they would have without him. We'll see what happens. All word out of draft central was that Jordan did not make the pick.

TroyF

[Anrhydeddu]

Is MJ with Charlotte?

[TroyF]

MJ is rumored to be buying the Milwaukee Bucks.
The rumor last night is that he had the power to make Milwaukee's pick.

TroyF

[Samdari]

Yah, official word is that Herb Kohl and flunkies were in charge.

The rumor mill had MJs efforts to buy the Bucks close enough to fruition to have him running the draft.

Sometimes it is hard to tell which is more accurate.

[Samdari]

Originally posted by cthomer5000
The TrailBlazers draft a player named "Outlaw". Insert punchline here.

Dola.

This was the unintentional humor highlight of the draft. This did not get nearly enough attention. I had been rooting for this several picks before. Its just too perfect.

[John Galt]

I loved the "Fire Layden" chants during Stern's opening address. I mean, you knew they were coming, but doing it during the opening was priceless.

[bigdawg2003]

Hopefully Bill Simmons' annual NBA draft article is up today.

[John Galt]

Originally posted by bigdawg2003
Hopefully Bill Simmons' annual NBA draft article is up today.

I just checked and it is up already.

[Samdari]

Originally posted by cthomer5000
The TrailBlazers draft a player named "Outlaw". Insert punchline here.

This was the unintentional humor highlight of the draft. This did not get nearly enough attention. I had been rooting for this several picks before. Its just too perfect.

EDIT: false dola removed

[TroyF]

Originally posted by Samdari
This was the unintentional humor highlight of the draft. This did not get nearly enough attention. I had been rooting for this several picks before. Its just too perfect.

EDIT: false dola removed

I couldn't agree more, I'm still making jokes about it. :)

TroyF

[korme]

Bill Simmons:
Milwaukee takes TJ Ford at No. 8 ... he's wearing a Tiger Woods mask for some reason.

heheheheh

[Easy Mac]

I'm pretty sure Bill Simmons said everything I was thinking. He als osaid things people normally wouldn't say (for fear of being labeled a racist):

4:36 -- Quote from Mike Tirico: "There (LeBron) is with his Mom, Gloria. Gloria sacrificed a lot. Gave birth to LeBron when she was 16 ... on their own at 19, living on assistance, food stamps, and now here they are ... it's a great American story."

(What about parents who stayed together, worked hard, provided for their children and put them through school? Since when did not practicing birth control and lucking out because of DNA become a "sacrifice"? I'm confused. Let's just move on.)

I swear I was thinking the exact same thing, but I don't think I'd have the balls to say so in public, for fear of castration from the PC police.

[Samdari]

I'm pretty sure the PC police would sit you down, explain to you exactly why there is only one way to think (the "nice" way) ask for your best effort to improve. This 'punishment' would end with a hug.

[MylesKnight]

"..By the way, I wish I could buy stock in things like "Qyntel Woods and Zac Randolph will corrupt Outlaw before training camp ends."

"...Seattle takes Nick Collison at No. 12. Another nice pick. For God's sake, he tossed up a 30-20 in a national title game; Chris Kaman couldn't have matched that if he were playing against the Tennessee Lady Vols."

:D

The Best Thing currently going for the NBA is The Sports Guy himself.

Why hasn't David Stern given this guy a job yet? Give him any gig he wants..

STUPENDOUS STUFF!! :D

[bbor]

Anyone have asny idea why Canadian Carl English did'nt go at all?..He was supposed to be late 1st rounder and went right through the draft.

[Marmel]

The word Canadian will probably clue you into the answer. :D

[bbor]

Originally posted by Marmel
The word Canadian will probably clue you into the answer. :D

Just cause he makes 3 pointers with a hockey stick don't mean nothing :D

[Leonidas]

Did anyone actually stop to read the stats on a bunch of these foreign players. Seems like all these 6-11 guys averaged something like 9.5 pts a game in the Turkish Yugo League or whatever it was called. Go down the line, not very impressive numbers against not so impressive competition for many of these guys. Granted, maybe 4-5 of these guys will do pretty well, maybe even great, but I suspect a lot of them are getting drafted simply because the GMs don't like too many of the college players on the board so when in doubt they feel like they can draft some tall dude named Goran and everyone will think how smart they were for finding this guy. Even the big hype of this draft, Milicic, only averaged 9pts and less than 5 boards in Italy. For the record, I really have my doubts. Yes, the competition may be a bit better in Italy than the NCAA, but it sure can't be like playing NBA players. 9pts and 4.6 rebounds in Italy and that's the number 2 pick in the draft.

As for my team, Orlando, I am quite pleased with Reece Gaines. A big PG who can shoot, is fairly athletic, and his best known attribute is his passing. Finally, the Magic get a good draft pick. Then in the 2nd round they get Zaur Pachulia who is some near 7-foot dude who played in Turkey and averaged 9 pts and 5 boards in that league. Yeah, I'm sure he'll be giving Stephen Hunter a run for his money on the end of that bench.

[Easy Mac]

I'm pretty sure most of the foreign kids are brought along slowly, and only get sparse minutes so they don't burn out early. What they used to do in soccer unitl they couldn't afford it anymore.

[cmp]

Darko may have only averaged 9 points and 4.5 rebounds a game playing in Serbia but he played less than 20 minutes a game. Also, his teammates and coach resented him so rarely was a play ever designed for him and rarely did his teammates give him the ball. He shot over 60% when he did actually get a chance to shoot the ball. The way they play overseas is much much different then here, talent doesn't get you as far there, the more experience you have the more playing time you get.

Pau Gasol averaged 11 points and 5 rebounds a game in his final year playing in Spain. And the Spanish league is nowhere near as good as the league where Darko played.

[BreizhManu]

Originally posted by gold101
Pau Gasol averaged 11 points and 5 rebounds a game in his final year playing in Spain. And the Spanish league is nowhere near as good as the league where Darko played.

The Spanish league is probably the best league in Europe followed by Italy, Greece and Turkey.

For the rest all of what you say is right, Parker was the team leader in Paris before getting drafted : 14.7 points and 5.6 assists in 33 minutes.
Boris Diaw (drafted by Atlanta) : 7.3 points, 5.3 rebounds and 3.8 assists in 25 minutes, and you know what ? He won the MVP award in France.

Numbers mean nothing.

Darko wasn't the leader and I consider those numbers as quite impressive for a european prospect.

[daedalus]

Out of curiosity . . . here's what Dick Vitale had to say about Jarvis Hayes:Hayes wants the ball at the end of the game. I broadcasted a Georgia-Florida game this past season that Hayes won with a big shot at the end to upset the Gators. He uses screens well and has good size (6-7). He's a mature kid who is ready to work hard.Isn't that exactly Richard Hamilton?

For the record, I've never seen Jarvis Hayes play but I've liked Richard Hamilton since he was in college.

[korme]

Hamilton is not near 6'7, though, is he?

[TroyF]

Hamilton's official number is 6'7" I'd say the number is probably right on.

TroyF

[korme]

damn, maybe he's just too puny to look that tall.

[TroyF]

Dola,

I've read a couple of books on European basketball and think I'd enjoy the game over there more. It's amazing when you watch a video of their games. TEAM defense. TEAM offense.

Part of the reason they struggle defensively over here is that they are used to playing a team concept rather than just manning up on someone and pretending the rest of the court doesn't exist.

It's amazing when you watch the post up game in Europe too. It isn't a contest of strength, it's a contest of footwork. They actually use post up moves rather than simply shoving the guy out of the way and dunking. (shh, don't tell Shaq)

I wish Fox Sports World or someone else fed some games over here.

TroyF

[Buccaneer]

#3 - Carmelo Anthony - Denver - I'll say LeBron will be an MVP candidate, but I'll say Carmelo will be special. After seeing the Final Four in person, I have no doubts that he will be Rookie of the Year and will be one of the top 10 players in the NBA in a few years.
Yeah, Carmelo will be special - as in especially lazy and selfish.


David Ramsey: Anthony must take steps to change self
DAVID RAMSEY Gazette Sports columnist ([email protected])

Carmelo Anthony must decide he’s hit bottom. He must examine the wreckage of his infant career and start walking on the path that leads to basketball redemption.

He can’t save this season’s edition of the Denver Nuggets, cursed by injuries and lousy chemistry.

He can save himself.

Even in this sorry season, Anthony averages 21 points, six rebounds and three assists. He remains a spectacular, if underachieving, talent.

There’s no reason for Anthony to be so relaxed and worthless on defense. No reason to force a half-dozen ridiculous shots each game. No reason to act like a brat and argue with coaches.

He’s seen as the posterchild for what ails the NBA.

He’s seen as an offense obsessed, immature player.

There’s a reason for this perception.

It’s true.

Nuggets general manager Kiki Vandeweghe wore the concerned look of a parent as he talked about An- thony. “Perception becomes reality,” Vandeweghe said in hushed voice late last week. “He’s thinking too much, trying to do too much, and now he’s just lost.”

Last summer, Anthony joined the U.S. Olympic team on its disastrous journey to Athens, where it bumbled to a bronze medal. Olympic coach Larry Brown ripped Anthony, said he should start worrying less about self and more about team.

Since Brown’s outburst, Anthony has done his best to live up to the description.

Flying high has its problems. Anthony’s brief career has offered scant preparation for adversity.

In his lone season at Syracuse University, he carried the Orange to the only NCAA basketball title in school history.

Last season, he led the transformation of the Nuggets from the worst team in the NBA to a playoff squad.

But all this success left him wide open for agony.

“When you’re a player who’s had all things go your way, and then it changes, it’s a tough road,” said Nuggets interim coach Michael Cooper.

Anthony’s attitude doesn’t help. I recently drove to the outskirts of Denver for an Anthony book signing. Yes, Carmelo already has composed his autobiography.

He arrived an hour late and then sat glumly and virtually mute as the patient, youthful crowd of 500 waited for the great privilege of watching him scribble his name.

I heard a half-dozen children wonder aloud why Anthony was so grumpy.

Where was the famous smile? The charisma?

Mary, his mother, smiled at my questions.

“He’s only 20 years old,” Mary said. “I think he’s done as good a job of handling all this as anyone could expect.”

She shrugged and scrunched her nose.

“But, then, I’m his mother.”

She’s right, of course. Anthony remains a kid, a 6-foot-8, 225-pound kid with the blessing — and burden — of boundless talent.

He’s much too gifted and hungry to remain in his funk.

On the court, he shows signs of awakening. On Monday against the Golden State Warriors, Anthony did battle in the lane with the finesse of a gladiator, pushing and elbowing in his enraged quest for points and rebounds.

The Nuggets lost, again, but Anthony had no reason to apologize.

Off the court, Anthony must embrace the enormous debt he owes his fans, especially kids.

He owes fans a kind word, a smile. Fans have made him rich, purchased his posh condo and his fleet of cars.

Anthony holds the future of the Nuggets in his youthful hands. Vandeweghe swears he isn’t worried.

“He’s a good kid,” Vandeweghe said. “He wants to do the right thing. There’s no question in my mind he will turn things around. He’s just a little confused.”

Anthony must decline to let this confusion thing become permanent. Nobody else can make him grow up.

Columnist David Ramsey can be reached at 476-4895

or [email protected]

Isn't the NBA built upon offense obsessed, immature players and is that not what fans want to see?

[sovereignstar]

I wonder if he still thinks that Minnesota is a boring city.
:confused:

[dubb93]

so who's actually calling this guy to give feedback?

[IMetTrentGreen]

well he's still better off than tj ford at this point

[IMetTrentGreen]

and i know i'm about a year and a half late on this, but i am just now seeing it:

samdari, i watched tj for two full years, and only ONE guy ever kept tj in front of him consistently. that player is now on of the best defensive rookies in the league right now, tony allen. tj was the fastest guy with the ball in his hands i've ever seen. your post is still one of the silliest things i've ever read (maybe not uninformed, but certainly misinformed), which is saying something, since the dumb mafia has taken over all texas boards of late

[Neuqua]

How'd Darko work out?

[Honolulu_Blue]

How'd Darko work out?
He's only 19 still! He's a work in progress...