Building a Computer Question...

[Godzilla Blitz]

I've been thinking about buying a new desktop, but some people are telling me that building is cheaper than buying and that I'll end up with a much better computer as well. They're also telling me that it isn't so hard to do.

I've been doing a little searching on the net, and I'm starting to agree: it looks like I could build an absolute top-of-the-line system for about $1500-$1700, which is what I was willing to spend to get a mid-range Dell. From reading some of the tutorials online, it doesn't look impossible to put the thing together either. It actually looks like the process has gotten simpler in the past couple of years (no more heat sink glue, parts that clip together easily, etc.).

I was wondering if anyone here might have some advice regarding building a computer. Was it easy to do? Worthwhile? Any big problems?

Was also wondering if anyone has some advice regarding good places to buy components, or any particular brands they liked.

I don't have to build on a tight budget, so I can spend for quality, but I'd like to keep everything in that $1500-$1700 range.

Any advice would be appreciated!

[cartman]

Yep, it's not really rocket science anymore. The cases come apart easily, allowing the parts to be mounted with almost no effort.

Since this is your first time, I'd recommened picking up a book on building computers, or invite a friend over who's built a computer before.

I've found one of the best places to purchase parts online is http://www.newegg.com I've had no problems ordering from them before, and I've built a couple of systems with parts bought from them.

I'm sure there will be others chiming in. Good luck!

[BucDawg40]

Here is another vote for Newegg.com.

I build many systems, and I get a lot of parts from them.

Here is a great case for a good price (with free shipping):

http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproduct.asp?DEPA=0&submit=Go&description=amb%2C3700

[Kam]

I third Newegg.

In the past year I have probably placed four orders with them (including one large order where I got case, motherboard, processor, RAM, and a few other items). The stuff is sent from California and I have received it here in Maryland in either two or three days every time. And that is without "Special Delivery".

The stuff is high quality and the prices are great. Oh and they usually have some cool freebie stuff too (t-shirts, pens, paper weights, etc.)

[Draft Dodger]

I just built my first computer (just barely finished it a week ago). and most of the stuff I bought was from newegg.

The only "difficult" thing about BYO is if something goes wrong - you put everything together and it wont boot, and then you have to try to figure out if its a bad processor, motherboard, loose cable, bad power supply, etc etc etc. I ran into this trouble, and after replacing several components, had a friend come over and determined that the power switch in the case was bad. I don't think I would have EVER figured that out on my own - and by then I had already RMA'd the motherboard, replaced the processor, and bought a new power supply.

one suggestion - don't save on the case; my first cases was pretty cheap; when I returned it, I bought a nice, nice Antec Case (Plusview1000 AMG LE). It made putting stuff together 1,000 times easier.

[Tasan]

Originally posted by Godzilla Blitz
no more heat sink glue

[pc soapbox]
Not quite sure what you mean by this, but you DO have to put some kind of thermal compound between the heatsink and the processor still. Sometimes the heatsink will come with some "thermal tape" on it, which is about worthless. I've seen systems die because all that was used was the thermal tape on the bottom of the heatsink. My recommendation to everyone is carefully remove this tacky substance from the heatsink and buy a little tube of Artic Silver. Put a thin layer on the heatsink, and wide enough to cover the area of contact between the processor and the heatsink. Attach and go. Using the cheapo stuff that comes with the heatsink may not kill the system outright, but it will take months/years off the life due to poor heat transfer.
[/pc soapbox]

Anyway, that bit aside, I build all my PCs, except for the laptops. I've currently got 4 on a little home network, everyone of them built myself. I'm always game to help out in anyway I can. Today it is mostly a simple tab a to slot b type thing, the main problem is sometimes configuring the BIOS, depending on how autosensing the one you get is. Things like the front side bus are typically not auto detected, so it'll be something you have to watch for.

Oh and there are some new harddrive interfaces out there, make sure you get everything the same, motherboard and harddrive. The new SATA has a different connection than the old EIDE. Most new motherboards that offer SATA also have EIDE on them, but a couple of the newest ones only have one channel for CD/DVDs. It can be a pain if you bought a new SATA HD, but also have an old HD you want to migrate over, along with a CD Writer and a CD Reader.

[Airhog]

Heres another tip I can give you.

When you first build the computer, install the processor and memory on your motherboard. Then instead of mounting the mb in the case, sit it on top of the case on top of the bag it came in or some of the foam that came with it. Make sure none of the mb is touching your case. Install a video card, and plug in the power. and a keyboard. hook it up to a monitor and boot it up to make sure the motherboard works. This is a real timesaver if your motherboard doesnt work. After it boots you can install everything in the case.

[Buccaneer]

GB: To get an idea of where to start, go through the Configurator

http://www.cyberpowersystem.com/custom/thunderbird.htm

Then do like what I did and research the best components (like MB, RAM, CPU, video, etc.). Right now, I can build a top-of-the-line PC myself for under $1000. This would include the superb Asus A7N8X MB with AMD 3200+ and 1gb PC3500 DDR, as well as a 256mb GeForce plus an Antec tall tower case.

You made the right first step in not going with an assembly-line, low-bid parts PC - you pay a lot more for less performance. I was going to go with the above components but I decided to wait till next year for the AMD 64 components.

[Dutch]

I have been building my own and co-workers machines for years. But since I do it for free, I always make sure people understand that building your own system has it's ups and downs.

You get the components that YOU want, but you don't get much support if things go wrong.

Many companies like AlienWare and Falcon Northwest are terribly over priced, so stay away from them.

But check out the latest from Dell, for instance.

For $1,449 (after $200 rebate) you get,

Dell Dimension 8300
2.6Ghz Pentium 4 w/800Mhz FSB
MS Windows XP Pro
512MB DDR SDRA
80 GB 7200RPM Hard Drive
16X DVD-ROM Drive
48X CD-RW including Sonic RecordNow (whatever that is)
Keyboard
Optical USB Mouse
17 inch CRT Monitor
Sound Blaster Audigy 2
Harmon Kardon Speakers w/ Subwoofer
56K modem
10/100 Lan Card
128 MB DDR ATI RADEON 9800 Graphics Card

with Software bundles and for 50 bucks more they will hook you up with a wireless router and their True Mobile Wireless Adapter if this is a second or more computer in your household.

It's a hard deal to pass up if you are anything less than the most hardcore of hardcore gamers.

Just my .02 cents.

[FloridaFringe]

I am in the processes of building what will end up becoming my 3rd working computer in my office and essentially the 7th computer that I have built in the past 6 years. Your price range is rather high in certain regards. For example:

800mhz Abit Mother Board with built in 5.1 Surround Sound $106
800mhz Intel P4 2.4c Processor $178 with true Hyper Threading Technology
800mhz 512mb DDR3200 Ram $75
128mb 8x AGP Graphics Card $100
80gig Hard Drive $80
CDRom Drive $30
Case with 400watt Power Supply $50
S&H $50

There really isn't much need to spend $1500 or more on a top of the line custom built computer. Part of the beauty of doing it yourself is that you can get it up and running at above standard specs for cheap and then start upgrading as needed or desired. The computers that you buy at Gateway and Dell are great and all but they are built with certain specs in mind and are mostly not upgradeable in the best of respects.

Even if you throw in some more fancy items like a DVD or CDRW depending on where you get them and what rebates might apply you would still end up under a $1000. Hell you could even add a monitor for less than $150 if you shop around and take your time.

There are computer shows like the one that will be at the War Memorial in Fort Lauderdale this upcoming weekend that are great places to buy inexpensive parts. Check your local listings or visit www.marketproshows.com for more information.

[FloridaFringe]

BTW, Newegg is hands down the best place to order parts online.

Also, since I am personally in the ordering process right now I could supply you with links to product pages as well as pricing pages for each of the items that you would need.

[Tasan]

Another thing, if you are going to game on this machine, don't skimp on the video card. Look around for deals and make sure you come away with a top of the line 256 meg video card, either the Nvidia or Raedon one. Both have their ups and down but are overall really great cards. You always want to come away with a fairly tip top vidcard, as those really age quick, so getting something midrange right now will just wind up costing you more in the short run.

[Godzilla Blitz]

Thanks for all the replies! It's a great help!

cartman, Bucdawg, Kam, DraftDodger, FloridaFringe: Thanks for the info on Newegg. I bumped into ads for them last night when I was looking at some parts and they looked reputable. It's nice to hear that others have had good experiences with them.

DraftDodger: I hadn't thought about possible problems with a component that doesn't work properly. That's something to consider, as I too would have no clue what to do (beyond checking cables, etc.) if there is something wrong after I get the thing built.

Tasan: Thanks. I think I'll go with your advice on the thermal compound, although I was surprised to see a couple of websites last night that said you don't need to use compound anymore. It's pretty easy to put on, eh? For some reason, I had heard this was a difficult step in the process. I'll probably not cut any corners with the motherboard, so I'll be sure to get a BIOS setup that is easy for me to figure out.

Airhog: Thanks for the tip!

Buc: Thanks for the link! You like the Athalon processors better than Intel?

Dutch: The system you priced out at Dell is very much like what I put together on their site last night. I've bought two Dells before and been very happy. However, when I started looking at what they charge for certain components, and then looked at what it would cost to build a computer myself, it looks like I can move up a step or two higher across the board and still have it cost about the same. Time is a factor in the cost, of course, so normally I'd be happy to spend some extra cash to have someone build a computer for me, but in this case I'm looking forward to the challenge of building my own computer, and it looks like Dell makes about $400-$500 just for putting everything together. All in all, it looks like making your own computer is a good idea if you feel reasonably comfortable with playing around with the inside of your computer. I've put in memory, hard drives, networking cards, sound cards, modems, etc., so I think I can take it to the next level.

Florida Fringe: I included a rough $200 for a monitor, $100 for Windows XP, and $200 for Office Pro (education price) in my $1500-$1700 figure, so I think that might be why it's high. Thanks, too for offering to put up some links.

[Godzilla Blitz]

Originally posted by Tasan
Another thing, if you are going to game on this machine, don't skimp on the video card. Look around for deals and make sure you come away with a top of the line 256 meg video card, either the Nvidia or Raedon one. Both have their ups and down but are overall really great cards. You always want to come away with a fairly tip top vidcard, as those really age quick, so getting something midrange right now will just wind up costing you more in the short run.

I'm initially looking at an ATI Radeon 9600 Pro. I think it is 128mb, but I read something that said the performance is better than the 256mb version?

[Godzilla Blitz]

This might open a can of worms, but would people recommend Athalon or Intel for the CPU?

Also, would people advise spending extra cash to get a power supply of 400 watts, or is 350 enough?

[Buccaneer]

I am admittedly an AMD bigot, have been for 7 years. You get the same amount speed using less power and heat while costing $100 less.

As far as power supply, I highly recommend these type of cases with 450w power:
http://www.antec-inc.com/pro_details_enclosure.php?ProdID=81046

I made the mistake last time in getting a bad case and switching over to this (with additional fans) was one of the best things I did. It provides ample power for any future expansion, it is very, very quiet and plently of room to work inside. You can never overestimate those benefits.

[FloridaFringe]

My personal opinions are:

(1) 128mb video will do pretty much anything that you will need done for at least the next year or so. You will end up saving at least $100 dollars over the 256 and by the time you will need to consider upgrading to the 256 version the prices will have dropped a considerable amount. So much so that you will probably not spend any more than shelling out the money for the 256 now but will end up not having to pull so much out of pocket just to get things rolling. One of my computers is running 32mg 4x AGP and doesn't have too many problems running the high end games on the market. Therefore, 128 should be plenty in relation to the overall cost.

(2) ATI is probably better than going with nVidia for now considering that some benchmarks have the ATI 128mb 8x AGP cards running at 40% faster rates as opposed to similar cards with the nVidia cards. Also, something to consider is that Microsoft just signed a contract with ATI for the Xbox 2 and has completely abandoned the idea of using nVidia as they had for the original Xbox. All that said, I have always been a fan of nVidia and still feel that you probably can't go wrong with either. Bottom line is to make sure that you get a MB that supports 8x AGP and that the card you get is 8x AGP. Do not settle for 4x, as it will be at least half as quick.

(3) Intel is the way to go. AMD had a place in my systems years ago but it just seems as if the Intel P4 chips can't be beat. However, this is almost like asking if someone prefers vanilla ice-cream over chocolate. Personal taste is going to play a key factor in which chip someone recommends. One thing to note is that Hyper Threading is the wave of the future and Intel 2.4c is probably the best chip for the job.

(4) 350 watts is plenty and you shouldn't notice a difference between that and a 400-watt. Do not go with less than 350 though and if you find a deal for a 400 at the same or within $10 of the 350 cost then the choice should be obvious.

(5) The software is a price point killer and I can see why your initial costs were so high. Good luck with that.

The main trick to building your own computer and saving money is to take your time and find the best deals. Try not to buy from too many different Internet sites so that you can more than likely save on shipping & handling charges.

[klayman]

The P4's are out performing the XP's right now, but the XP's are cheaper. It's a trade off.

If you are at all interested in overclocking, then AMD is the only way to go.

Of course everything will change with the release of the AMD 64 and P5. I'd wait until they are both out, and then you could pick up a high end P4 or AMD XP considerably cheaper than they are now.

[Tasan]

Originally posted by Godzilla Blitz
I'm initially looking at an ATI Radeon 9600 Pro. I think it is 128mb, but I read something that said the performance is better than the 256mb version?

I believe you are probably looking at a review that was done before the optimazation(sp) for the 256 megs. That is fixed now, and they are blowing the doors off of everything.

[Tasan]

Originally posted by Godzilla Blitz
Thanks for all the replies! It's a great help!

Tasan: Thanks. I think I'll go with your advice on the thermal compound, although I was surprised to see a couple of websites last night that said you don't need to use compound anymore. It's pretty easy to put on, eh? For some reason, I had heard this was a difficult step in the process. I'll probably not cut any corners with the motherboard, so I'll be sure to get a BIOS setup that is easy for me to figure out.



Thermal compound is definately still needed, some people just choose to accept what is given with the heatsink, and in SOME cases it is okay. In most cases though, you'll want to replace that tacky(literally, its tacky feeling) tape with some real compound. Its easy to put on, just use something that has a straight edge on it and get a nice, smooth, thin layer of it. You don't want too much, or it WON'T transfer heat. Think about he thickness of a sheet of paper.

[HornedFrog Purple]

If you have a friend/neighbor/know a college kid that has experience in puting one together, invest in the cost of a 6-pack, pizza what have you and put it together. You can learn everything you need to know in an afternoon.

[kingnebwsu]

I'm upgrading my PC right now too! :) I'm having some PC-buddies of mine build them for me, as my experience is still limited.

I got most of my stuff from dealsonic.com and also got some video card-age from newegg. I went with the "RADEON9200SE 128MB" as my video card and it was only $59 (with free shipping). I ordered everything (minus monitor, software, and HD) for a decent $387. Not a bad deal for the stuff I got. I went middle of the line instead of top of the line, as I'm a po' boy ;)

I got 512 MB DDR RAM for a decent price, also an athlon 1.8 GHz processor for $94, which ain't bad. It's got a 333 MHz bus on it, so I was happy with that.

My parts should be arriving early next week and hopefully everything transfers okay. I think this new machine will be a slight upgrade from my current 566 MHz E-machines bundle of joy...:rolleyes:

[Dutch]

GB, if you have the time and inclination, I would buy my own parts. Especially if you are concerned about the parts that are going into your system.

The part about Dell is to show you that it's really not hurting you too much to go to a reputable country to buy your machine. It's a pretty good deal......that and I have stocks in Dell. :)

[Alf]

GB : one tip from my experience. Watch what "noise level" is produced by the alimentation (and the fan). You might find it annoying if it is too "loud". Same applies for the graphic card (as most powerful ones have fan included).

[Godzilla Blitz]

Thanks again for all the info!

Buc: Yeah, a couple of articles I read recommended the same thing: don't skimp on the case. I take it Antec is a reliable brand?

Florida: Thanks for all the tips! I've been leaning towards an Intel just because most the benchmark tests seem to indicate that the P4 with hyperthreading is a faster chip than AMD. I'll probably stay away from the P5 and the Athlon 64. I've heard bad things regarding heat on both of those CPU's, and don't want to spend top dollar for the newest CPU.

Klayman: I doubt I'll overclock the system. I don't think I'll be running too many games that push the edge of the envelope, and I'm happy if the games run smoothly on my computer. Right now though, my p3 800 is quickly dropping below the minimum specs for quite a few of the newer games that I would like to play, and I've been wanting to run Morrowind in all its glory for quite some time. I'll be really busy for the next couple of months anyway, though, so I might wait a bit and look for deals on parts over the course of the next couple of months, then get the CPU last.

Tasan: Thanks for the clarification on the video card. I wouldn't be surprised if the article I read was from the summer. I don't know if I'll drop top dollar to get the fastest video card out there. (I've tended to buy the second fastest of everything when it comes to computers, believing that you don't get much bang for the buck when you buy the latest, fastest component right as it comes out.) Thanks too for the info on the compound. The "sheet of paper" image is one I can keep in my head.

Horned: You're probably right about that one. I tend to try to do things by myself, but I should probably just get someone to help that knows what they are doing.

kingnebwsu: That sounds like you're getting quite a jump in performance for less than $400. Good move!

Dutch: I've been satisfied with the two Dells I've owned, and I think their price/performance ratio is pretty good for a major manufacturer. No complaints here. They were definitely the way for me to go when I knew little about the guts of a computer.

Alf: How noisy is bad? Is there some kind of a rating each component gets? I think I've had some reasonably noisy computers, but they don't seem to bother me much after the first week.

[Tasan]

Originally posted by Godzilla Blitz

Alf: How noisy is bad? Is there some kind of a rating each component gets? I think I've had some reasonably noisy computers, but they don't seem to bother me much after the first week.

I'll jump in and throw an answer out there on this, as I've just "cured" a noisy machine. Try to get system fans with decible ratings below 40 I believe. I can't find my boxes from the fans I got, but I believe that is what I was looking for. With less noise, though, usually means slower speeds which means less airflow. Its a tradeoff. And remember, you need to push out as much as you pull in, so try to get the total airflow in and out equal.

[FloridaFringe]

Also know that to get the benefits of TRUE Hyper Threading you will need an 800mhz MoBo that supports the feature + PC3200 or better DDR + the correct processor. Do not settle for a 2.4 or a 2.8 since they will only emulate HT. Instead you need to look for a 2.4c or a 2.8c or similar.

All three components (MoBo + DDR + CPU) must be included with the correct types or the HT will not be what you expect. Although, most people would never notice any difference any ways.

Best of luck.

[FloridaFringe]

Question on Video Cards for those who care to share:

I have been looking at the Radeon 9200 cards but have come to realize that for the money the best bet may be the 9600 series.

1. Is there a substantial difference in quality between the two?

2. There are several 9600 cards sold by outside companies like Xtasy, Connect3D, Sapphire and PowerColor. These cards sell for about the same as the actual ATI 9200 cards, which is about $50 less than the actual ATI 9600 cards. Are any of these companies worth buying from or would it be best to stick to ATI cards made and sold by ATI?

3. The 9600 Pro cards are running $20 more than the straight up 9600 cards. Are there any major differences that would justify the extra $20 or is that money better spent elsewhere?

Thanks.

[Tasan]

All of those companies use the same basic board as ATI. ATI finally decided about a year ago, much like NVidia has always done, that they are better off just making the processor and the standized board, and licensing that off to other manufacturers. You'll get varying memory qualities and a couple of different optional features with various companies, but on the whole you don't lose anything by not going strictly ATI. As far as the difference between the 9200 and the 9600, I'm not really sure. I think the 9200 is on the same "generation" as the GF3, and the 9600 is on the GF4 "generation" if that helps any.

[thealmighty]

Hey, GB, when the time comes, how about a 'dynasty' report.

Might spur someone to build one of their own.

[FloridaFringe]

Thanks for the info Tasan. I was hoping that was the case with ATI. I knew that nVidia had done that with their chip sets and it had worked out well. One of the best cards that I have ever had was made by LeadTek with an nVidia chip. Excellent performance at a reasonable price. Then again that is what it all comes down to in the end.

I am going to a computer show this afternoon without any expectations but hopefully something positive will come of it. I have just finalized my list and will start purchasing piece by piece as the deals come around.

[Draft Dodger]

GB:

I used a 9600 Pro in my machine - it's working pretty well, but, really, the reason I went for it was mostly because of cost vs performance (it's a good bang for a moderate amount of buck). Frankly, if I were in your shoes (a lot of money to spend), I probably would have gotten a better card. I expect that that's probably the first thing I upgrade, and then put this into my other machine.

Also, I went with AMD, but that's only because I was able to get the 3000+ processor for a really good deal. Before that opportunity came up, I was definitely leaning towards Intel after all the research I did - an 865 motherboard and the fastest p4 I could afford was where I was headed. In the end, because I got the AMD, I got a nice MSI K7 nForce Mobo...and it's definitely a nice setup.

[Ryche]

Good info from everybody. I'm in a similar boat to GB, looking at building a new computer for my wife...poor thing is stuck with a 400 Celeron.

[wbonnell]

I'm viewing this on a pentium II 300. For basic, text web surfing (and, lately, some FOF 2001), that's plenty of horsepower...

[cartman]

GB,

If you care to spring for a little more, you can make your computer really quiet and go the water cooling route. Or, if you go with a full tower case, Zalman makes some REALLY large heat sinks for the newer and hotter-running CPUs. I was suprised how much louder my new computer was with the stock P4 (3.06ghz) and GeForce 4 fans. Popped in the Koolance EXOS system for CPU, GPU, and Northbridge cooling, and the thing is super quiet.

[Godzilla Blitz]

Tasan: Thanks for the info on the fans. I've been looking at Newegg for info on the fans that come with Antec cases, but they don't seem to give any decibel information. I'll keep looking.

Florida: Thanks again. That is good info, and I doubt I would have figured that out on my own. I've been looking at a p4 2.4CGHz with 800MHz Hyper Threading. From the reports on it at Newegg, it looks like runs cool overclocked at 3.0GHz, and that Hyperthreading rocks when you get it working well. Sounds like a winner CPU.

Is it easy to overclock a CPU? I noticed that the readers there reported the operating temperatures of their CPUs as well. Do you find out the temperatures from BIOS? Is that easy to figure out as well?

Florida: I don't have a clue on the video card question, but I was reading a speed comparison a couple of days ago. I tried to find it again but couldn't. Before I buy a card though I'll look for some articles on video card speed and try to post links if I have some success.

thealmighty: I could post a journal (parts bought, problems encountered, thoughts, costs, time involved, etc.) of the process, but would it be better to keep everything here? If anyone else is doing likewise, maybe they could jump in with how it's going for them as well. Although I don't know much about what I'm doing, I know a lot more than I did from the posts that others have made over the past couple of days; it always amazes me how helpful and knowledgeable the people here are. Maybe by the time we're done we could have one thread with lots of information for people building a computer.

Florida: Good luck at the computer show. Let us know if you find anything good.

DraftDodger: I might take a closer look at video cards once I decide on the CPU, case, and motherboard. I don't feel like I have a lot of money to spend, but if there's good value in adding some cash to the video card, I might go for it. Thanks for the tip.

Ryche: Feel free to jump in with any questions or ideas!

wbonnell: My motivation comes from Railroad Tycoon III, Morrowind, Pirate Hunter (a lot of people are saying this reminds them of Pirates), Call of Duty, and some work-related speed issues. For just web-browsing and FOF2004, this P3 800 is great. I also intend to keep my current PC if I can't play XCOM on the new one. Can't give up that game.

My next step is to try to find some info on companies that make reliable cases (Antec is one of the best?), motherboards (no clue here), and CPUs (probably go with Intel p4 with HyperThreading). I'll probably spend some time this evening looking over website reviews, although I haven't yet found one site that has easy to view ratings on a number of components. Motherboards.org seems to be pretty good, though, and I think there must be a way to sort through their info better.

Anyway, thanks again for all the comments!

[cartman]

GB:

Since you asked... :)

For motherboards, I've always had good luck with Asus. My current mobo is the P4G8X.

For a video card, I'd recommend one of the GeForce 4200Ti cards. Plenty of bang for the buck.

And, as for a case, Lian Li, Antec, and Cooler Master are all fine cases. Look to see if the case comes with a powersupply. If not, then a good one to look for would be an Antec PS.

[FloridaFringe]

I just got home from the computer show and must say that although I was glad that I went I probably would not go again unless there is some older item that I may be looking for. Most of the stock was geared toward lower budgets looking for bare-bones bare-quality items. There were several vendors that had 1 or 2 of the items that I am interested in but the prices were actually more expensive than going through Newegg and paying for shipping & handling. O'well. Live and learn.

I have found some really good deals on several items at Best Buy and CompUSA believe it or not. I will post a follow up once I get some rest and can take the time to get all of my thoughts together. Last night was a long night of gaming and I am currently working on 2 hours of sleep. Time for a short nap and then back to the compulab, sort of speak.

I think that the buying phase will actually start tomorrow morning as I have figured nearly everything out. The case is the only thing holding me back since I am a bit reluctant to save money at the risk of getting crappy quality. This is the one aspect of my new machine that may be bought last and dependant on what my budget looks like after getting everything else ordered.

More to come soon...

[Tasan]

Originally posted by cartman
GB:


For a video card, I'd recommend one of the GeForce 4200Ti cards. Plenty of bang for the buck.



No offense cartman, but GB don't go with this. If you are going to put a top end system together like you are saying, don't hold it back with the video. Minimum you should look at is a nVidia FX 5600 and Raedon 9600. By going back to a GF4 line, you are just bottlenecking your system at the video end.

[Ryche]

Kind of a silly computer requirement for my wife, but can anyone recommend a good case that comes in colors? I showed her the Antec webpage and she thought all of the cases there were boring. Other then this requirement, she's being quite reasonable.

Overall for her computer, the main requirement is that it runs Everquest and Everquest 2 whenever that comes out.

[FloridaFringe]

Newegg.com has plenty of cases that come in various colors.

[FloridaFringe]

A couple of deals in this weeks ads that run until Nov 1:

CompUSA

Xtasy ATI 9600 256mb 8x AGP Graphics Card ($150 after rebates) this is probably the best card on the market considering that at this price it is practically a steal.

SeaGate Serial ATA 80gb 7200rpm 8mb Cache Hard Drive ($50 after rebates)

BestBuy

MeiaStor 52 x 24 x 52 Internal CD-RW Drive ($10 after rebates) claims $15 in the ad but listed as $10 in the store.

NewEgg

Intel P4 2.4c Socket 478 Hyper Threading Technology 800mhz FSB ($182)

2 x 256mb 184pin DDR PC3200 Un-Buffered Non-Parity Non-ECC 400mhz ($38 each / $76 total) really no need to go with less than 512mb since 256mb will only save you $18 total. This type of memory (PC3200 or better) is required for Hyper Threading to work properly and must be purchased in pairs as well. Otherwise the output will be limited and the benefits will be lost completely.

ABIT IS7 ($102) an excellent MotherBoard with built in 10/100 and 5.1 Surround Sound that competes with even some of the top of the line sound cards. This board deserves a look if nothing else.

Link (http://www.abit-usa.com/products/mb/techspec.php?categories=1&model=79)

[cartman]

Ryche,

I got the "Cool Blue" case from CoolerMaster. It's got an acrylic blue front door that looks pretty sweet. And I got it from Newegg.

[cartman]

Originally posted by Tasan
No offense cartman, but GB don't go with this. If you are going to put a top end system together like you are saying, don't hold it back with the video. Minimum you should look at is a nVidia FX 5600 and Raedon 9600. By going back to a GF4 line, you are just bottlenecking your system at the video end.

No offense taken. But, if you are looking at shaving $100-$200 off of the price of the setup, then I think this is a reasonable option. The human eye has problems telling the difference between frame rates above 60 FPS. So if the video card can pump out 200 FPS vs. 100 FPS, then there isn't much tangible benefit.

But that being said, if you have the cash to spring for the FX5600 or ATI 9600, then by all means do so.

[Ryche]

Xtasy ATI 9600 256mb 8x AGP Graphics Card ($150 after rebates) this is probably the best card on the market considering that at this price it is practically a steal.

Anyone know anything more about this card? I'm seriously considering getting it for my wife's computer (and as a bonus I get to use it until the computer is built :))

[Tasan]

Originally posted by cartman
No offense taken. But, if you are looking at shaving $100-$200 off of the price of the setup, then I think this is a reasonable option. The human eye has problems telling the difference between frame rates above 60 FPS. So if the video card can pump out 200 FPS vs. 100 FPS, then there isn't much tangible benefit.

But that being said, if you have the cash to spring for the FX5600 or ATI 9600, then by all means do so.

Actually the FPS thing is an old misconception. Yes, the eye can't see higher than 50 or so fps, BUT, the way a computer refreshes and updates, higher fps DOES give you a smoother blend of animation even above the normal human fps limit.

[FloridaFringe]

Originally posted by Ryche
Anyone know anything more about this card? I'm seriously considering getting it for my wife's computer (and as a bonus I get to use it until the computer is built :))

First of all, make sure that the MotherBoard can handle an 8x AGP card otherwise it will only run at 4x AGP. In that case there are less expensive cards that will give you the same output.

Secondly, check the power supply. This card is going to need at least 350 watts to run at full capacity. Otherwise you will run the risk of having problems such as computer freezes and the like.

I will be doing some research in the line of reviews and will share anything good that comes up.

[Godzilla Blitz]

Well, I didn't get much done with this tonight. Started doing some work while watching the football game and suddenly things got late. I'll try to find some time tomorrow.

cartman: Please feel free to jump in at anytime! Thanks for the advice. Antec seems to make a great case from what I can tell so far.

Florida: Too bad about the computer sale. They have them a few times a year here in Minnesota too, and I was disappointed with the quality and prices of stuff the last time I went. Like you said, a lot of the stuff was more expensive than some of the chain stores around here. Not only that, but they charge something like $7 to get in. I haven't been to one in a couple of years now.

Tasan, cartman: Thanks for the advice on the video card. I think I'll get at least an ATI 9600, just because it seems to fit well within the budget. I may even move up if I end up saving some bucks somewhere else in the system. (I'd allotted $300 for the CPU and might save $100+ there.) I think if I really wanted to save some cash I would pull out the GeForce3 Ti200 that's in my current machine and put that in the new one until I see a really good deal on a newer card.

Ryche: Regarding the case colors, have you seen the funky case lights that Newegg sells? Does anyone know if these are any good? They plug into a USB port and supposedly flash to the beat of music you play. Maybe your wife would like something like that? I think they're really cheap (under $20?).

Florida: Thanks for posting those prices. Regarding the Surround Sound on the mobo, I was reading an article that didn't recommend getting the sound with the mobo unless it was easily disabled. Do you have any thoughts on this? Are you thinking of skipping installing a sound card and just using the sound on the mobo?

Ryche: Everything I have read about that card (ATI 9600) so far has been good.

[Tasan]

Originally posted by Godzilla Blitz
Florida: Thanks for posting those prices. Regarding the Surround Sound on the mobo, I was reading an article that didn't recommend getting the sound with the mobo unless it was easily disabled. Do you have any thoughts on this? Are you thinking of skipping installing a sound card and just using the sound on the mobo?

I'll take a stab at this. Just about every motherboard made today comes with onboard sound, and they are all easy to disable, its a BIOS option usually, in rare cases a jumper to change. The quality has been improving greatly as well. I believe the newer NForce2 boards have very good sound, but I can't find the article I read that in. I still usually go with a soundblaster line audio device, but I've been doing that since like 1993, so I might be a little biased there ;- )

[Ryche]

Ryche: Regarding the case colors, have you seen the funky case lights that Newegg sells? Does anyone know if these are any good? They plug into a USB port and supposedly flash to the beat of music you play. Maybe your wife would like something like that? I think they're really cheap (under $20?).

She did actually see that and considered it...but decided she would find it annoying pretty quickly. She's spent most of the day looking at prices and finding all the parts needed. Looks like I might be building this in the next month.

Here's the list she put together so far. Any glaring omissions or suggestions?

Video Card -
http://www.compusa.com/products/product_info.asp?tabtype=rb&product%5Fcode=304459&pfp=external#moreinfo
(Xtasy 9600 Video Card, 8x AGP, 256MB DDR)
$150

Case -
http://www.newegg.com/app/Showimage.asp?image=11-123-040-04.JPG/11-123-040-06.JPG/11-123-040-01.JPG/11-123-040-02.JPG/11-123-040-05.JPG/11-123-040-08.JPG/11-123-040-07.JPG/11-123-040-03.JPG
(Chenbro BLUE w/Black Mid-Tower ATX Case, Model
PC61166 BLUE- Retail)
$50

Lighting kit and fans -
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=638729&Sku=U10-6101&CatId=1237
(ULTRA Case Lighting Kit - Includes 1 Green Light, 2
Green 80mm LED Fans,1 Green Memory Cooler)
$20

Power supply -
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-Details.asp?EdpNo=407076&sku=A453-1060
(Antec SL400 400 W ATX Power Supply)
$55

Motherboard -
http://usa.asus.com/prog/spec.asp?m=P4S800&langs=09
(Asus Motherboard for Intel Processors Model P4S800
Retail)
$79 -at www.newegg.com

Processor -
http://www.newegg.com/app/Showimage.asp?image=19-116-159-01.JPG/19-116-159-02.JPG
(Intel Pentium 4 / 2.6CGHz 512k socket 478 Hyper
Threading Technology 800 MHz FSB - RETAIL)
$175

Hard drive -
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduct.asp?submit=property&DEPA=1
(Seagate 80GB 7200rpm SATA Hard Drive Barracuda V
ST380023AS- OEM)
$81

We're just planning on one cd drive for now as well, probably 512 memory to start and adding a sound card later.

[Godzilla Blitz]

Ryche: Just took a quick look, but do you already have the RAM?

By the way, this site seems full of helpful stuff...

www.overclockers.com (http://www.overclockers.com)

[Ryche]

Not yet, but the plan for now is one 512 stick and then probably adding a second one in 6 months or so when it will be needed.

[FloridaFringe]

Originally posted by Ryche
Not yet, but the plan for now is one 512 stick and then probably adding a second one in 6 months or so when it will be needed.

Just remember 2 things:

In order for the Hyper Threading to actually work you will need PC3200 or better DDR. Do not fall for saving money on lesser ram or you will not get the benefits of true multi-tasking and it will end up being a waste of money to get such a good chip and MoBo.

Also, for true HT to work you will need to get ram in pairs or else there is no way that the technology can do what it needs to do correctly. Right now there is no difference in price to get 2 sticks of 256 as opposed to 1 stick of 512 so make sure you don't make a common mistake or else once again you will have wasted money on such a good chip and MoBo.

Nice choices in your list by the way.

[FloridaFringe]

GB,

Yes the computer show was a bit of a disappointment but I am already over it this morning since it did help me to finalize what I will be buying and from where. It was worth the experience in the least and I was able to spend some time with my father so that is always a good thing.

The built in sound on the Abit board has been compared to some of the top quality sound cards on the market today. Not the $200 or $300 cards mind you but more people than not will probable never notice the difference in regards to cards such as the Sound Blaster Audigy Gamer. As Tasan has already mentioned the onboard sound can usually be disabled at the click of a mouse or a press of a key. Especially with a high-end Mobo so you really shouldn't have anything to worry about there.

My suggestion, or at least what I plan on doing, is to save the money on the sound card for now and to go with the onboard sound. Buy a decent set of 5.1 speakers that you can usually find for less than $100. As a matter of fact I can vouch well for the
6-Piece Altec Lansing 5.1 Speaker System (http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?id=1051384490057&skuId=4658659&type=product&productCategoryId=cat01055) that I have recently seen at BestBuy for $80. Spend the extra cash that you save on a really good case or video card and then make the decision on spending some serious cash on a really good sound card down the road if you really want to. My personal goal is to upgrade to a high-end sound card within the next 6 months or so.

BTW, getting an ATI 9600 or 9600pro with 256mb is probably your best bang for the buck. Spending any more money on a better video card that cost more than $200 is more than likely a waste of cash. The ultra expensive video will come down in price so fast over the next 6 months that you shouldn't rush to get one now. They fall in price like PC games where they are top tier to start but are soon replaced by better cards so the price needs to reflect that by being lowered substantially.

[Ryche]

Thanks for the heads up on the memory issues, that's the type of little details that I'm not aware of. And I'll tell my wife you liked the list, she'll be quite happy about that.

[FloridaFringe]

Soon enough the whole Hyper Threading issue will be second nature to many but for now the true aspects of it all are rather obscure to most. Chances are that none of us would ever notice whether or not the computer was actually using the technology or not.

Here is the official word from the Intel website on Hyper Threading (http://www.intel.com/personal/products/pentium4/hyperthreading.htm). There is even an informational video found on the right side of the page under HT Technology Details and listed as Hyper-Threading Demo.

BTW, your wife has very funky tastes when it comes to cases. I can certainly understand though as I myself and rather picky on how it looks as well as how well it functions. The lighting additions should make here very happy.

[FloridaFringe]

Looking through this weeks ad for BestBuy I ran across another good deal on a video card. Although it is only 128mb the price is right especially considering that they are throwing in a full copy of Half Life 2 for those that would be interested. The only thing that I am not sure about is how well the SE version holds up to the full version. One bonus is that there are no rebates involved so there are no extra out of pocket expenses if that happens to be a concern.

ATI Radeon 9600 SE 8x AGP Graphics Card ($130)

[Easy Mac]

If this helps, I picked up a:
Asus A7n8x Deluxe (Dual Lan, 2 firewire ports, serial ATA) w/ 512 mb ram, 2500+ XP AMD, 60 gb hd, GeForce 5600 fx, CD-rw, DVD, XP Pro with a pretty pimp (if not bright, because it has a lot of lights and a see-through side) case for around $750

I already want to upgrade the video and double the ram (I want to take advantage of the dual channel layout), and I want some better speakers (to take advantage of the nice audio onbaord). And maybe some kind of tv tuner for when I get an apartment next year.

[wbonnell]

What's the current thinking 'round here on LCD monitors? I'm perilously close to pulling the trigger on:

http://compare.hitachidisplays.com/hitachidisplays/datasheet.jsp?type=in&id=853

Bright 17" display with a fast 16ms pixel response, although I don't play action games on PC- that's why I have an XBox. Oh, and it sports a DVI connector to boot.

[jefflackey]

I wrote an article for Computer Games Magazine: a Dummy's Guide to Building a Computer. Great way to finance building a nw computer. ;)

A couple of lessons learned:

1. When you narrow down your choices on a motherboard, find a good web site with large active forums and do some reading. I chose a Gigabyte AMD board, and I found the Gigabyte forum at amdmb.com invaluable. Not only did the forum have a lot of tips and tricks, they were able to answer a couple of questions on set-up that were not at all obvious from the MB manual.

2. The step that is the most fraught with danger, where you can do the most harm, is putting the heatsink on the CPU. If you use a bladed screwdriver to push the springs down, and slip while pushing down hard, you can stick a screwdriver right into the MB or have it scrape across the board. Using something a little more blunt might be good your first time (it isn't all that hard, you just need to be careful.)

3. Do as much as you can on the motherboard BEFORE you put it into the case - particularly any jumper settings, etc.

4. Get some good cable organizers of some type and tie up and clean up all of the cables and wires when you're done. Not only does it look crappy to have all those cables filling up the case, but they significantly restrict airflow.

5. Somebody mentioned this: do some research and get a good, QUIET heatsink fan.

6. Get the Artic Silver. Their webpage has some good reading on applying and cleaning off any thermal pads, etc.

7. Make sure the heatsink/fan is truly flat on the CPU - it's not hard to have it slightly tilted. Not good for the CPU.

8. Don't skimp on the case. Get a great case, not just a good one. A great case will be usable no matter how you eventually upgrade the computer.

Remember that if you do ANYTHING wrong the computer will burst into flames when you first hit the on button. ;) (JUST kidding.)

I doubt that you can build one cheaper than you can buy one - and if you don't have the bundled software (such as XP) it will be hard to build one as cheap as Dell. BUT - every component is exactly what you want. When I've ordered from Dell in the past, I usually have to get something I don't want and replace it (e.g., they won't ship without a video card.) You will know your system intimately, so when you want to upgrade something, such as the CPU, memory, etc. it will be no big deal. If you choose wisely, you will have a good upgrade path (my Dell P3 866 MHz machine was only upgradeable to 1 GHz, due to the MB.)

And it's fun. Satisfying. I'll never buy another PC from a Dell or Gateway (well, except for notebooks - we really need someone to sell notebook components. ;) ) Since I review games for mags and websites, I end up upgrading my computer about once every 1.5 years - now I'm looking forward to it. ;)

[FloridaFringe]

Excellent suggestions Jeff. The only point that I would dispute is the cost of custom-built computers over those of larger companies. Indeed, if the software is a necessity then a package deal may be best. However, if the software is something that is not apart of the equation then there is without a doubt a better bargain to be had with buying piece by piece.

The computer that I am putting together would easily cost over $1000 if you were to buy it from a larger company. Actually, you probably couldn't find the specs anyhow. Even the computer that GB is looking into with all of the software would still run over $2000 in the stores.

One area that larger companies have custom built beat other than with software is with tech support. Hands down without a doubt the tech support can come in very handy if you don't know what you are doing or don't want to deal with any problems.

One area that custom-built computers have over larger companies other than with specific specs is in the area of upgrading. As Jeff has mentioned most of the store bought computers are streamlined to fit within the realm of a certain expectation of the here and now. Custom built computers can be envisioned for the future as well. One case in point is with Gateway and their $1500 computers that only come with a 250-watt power supply and can only handle 1 gig of memory. That power supply couldn't handle the top of the line video cards now let alone a year down the road and 1 gig of memory will easily be surpassed before that.

At any rate, it all comes down to what you are looking for out of the whole computer experience. Either option is a valid choice dependant on what your expectations are for now and down the road.

Oh yes, budget plays a huge factor as well. :)

[FloridaFringe]

Some more deals that can save some money in the long run:

Office Max

Iconcepts Optical Mouse with Wheel (Free after rebate)

Iconcepts Multimedia Keyboard (Free after rebate)

Iconcepts 6-Outlet Surge Protector (Free after rebate)

Belkin Network PCI Card (Free after rebates)

Can’t beat the free stuff.

[Godzilla Blitz]

Tasan: Thanks for the info on the mobo sound.

Ryche: I'm wondering about the P2.6C CPU you're buying. Maybe someone else can jump in here, but I've been reading some articles that praise the P2.4C chip as being a great chip and one that gives great results when overclocked. I've read a lot of stories of overclocking to 3.0Ghz and up with the 2.4C, but have yet to see the same praise heaped on the 2.6C or 2.8C. Some of the results seem to indicate that the 2.4C CPU beats out the the faster chips when overclocked. Anyone shed some light on this?

Florida: Thanks for the info on the sound cards. I have a Turtle Beach Santa Cruz card in my current set up, and have a decent Harmon/Karmon three-speaker set up. I'll probably move them to the new computer and find some cheap replacement for the old computer. I'm not picky when it comes to sound and basically just want something that will give me decent sound and not cause any problems. The Turtle Beach card has been great in that regard.

Florida: I've read a few posts on other boards saying "stay away from the ATI SE cards". No clue why though.

wbonnell: I'll take a shot at the monitor question. From what I've read, the major positives with the CRT's are: better color and better response times. The major positives with the LCD's are: smaller footprint, less heat, and less weight. If quality of the picture is your only concern, CRT's seem to be the way to go. If you've got limited space or need to move your computer around often, LCD's might be a good choice. Personally, I think the LCD's are just more modern looking, and CRT's look like stone age stuff next to them. Maybe someone else that knows more can jump in, but that's my current understanding of the general differences. If you're not using a monitor for action gaming, and top-quality color is not a priority, maybe the LCD is the way to go for you? How does a 16ms pixel response compare to a CRT's response time?

Florida, Easy Mac: Assuming everything else it ok, if you have four identical sticks of memory in your computer, will Hyper Threading still work?

Jeff: Thanks for the tips. I'll have to go dig up your article.

At this point, anyway, I think that I'd have to agree with Florida that you can save money by building a computer yourself. I'm not even sure the software advantages when buying from the major companies are that big of a plus. For me, I'll be buying Windows XP Pro OEM from Newegg ($141) when I buy some hardware, and even with that cost I think an identical system would cost me about $300-$500 more at Dell. Not only that but I can get an academic version of Office 2003 for much cheaper than I could get one with Dell. Lastly, I don't have to deal with AOL or Earthlink splattered all over my computer. Once I get further in the process, I'll price everything out and compare. Be interesting to see the difference, if there is one.

Florida: As much as I dread shopping at Office Max and Office Depot, I might have to make a trip there for a keyboard, mouse, and surge protector. Thanks! I swear they have the dumbest staff on the planet, though. I think a requirement to work there is that you know nothing about the content of the store. I still laugh at the time my wife went in to have some copies made there. She had roughly one thousand copies made (less than $50 dollars worth of copies), and the clerk rang up the charge at over $6,000. When my wife told her that there must be some kind of mistake, the clerk gave a blank stare, and rang it up again. Same price comes up, so she told my wife, "No, it comes up the same way again." Sigh. At .04/copy, there would have been 1.5 million sheets of paper, or roughly 150 of those heavy, 10-ream cartons of paper. Yet the clerk, who had just handed the order to my wife in a bag, had no idea how ridiculous the charge was. Took the manager and another clerk to get the whole thing straightened out.

[Ryche]

Ryche: I'm wondering about the P2.6C CPU you're buying. Maybe someone else can jump in here, but I've been reading some articles that praise the P2.4C chip as being a great chip and one that gives great results when overclocked. I've read a lot of stories of overclocking to 3.0Ghz and up with the 2.4C, but have yet to see the same praise heaped on the 2.6C or 2.8C. Some of the results seem to indicate that the 2.4C CPU beats out the the faster chips when overclocked. Anyone shed some light on this?

Not too concerned about overclocking, the most severe game this computer will ever play is Everquest 2. I sure as hell hope 2.6 will be enough for that.

[FloridaFringe]

In regards to OfficeMax, in and out. Don't ask questions and don't even consider buying anything else. Grab the desired items and the necessary paper work and get it over with. This is how I have always handled shopping there for anything.

Love the story about the copies. Had to be good for some laughs once it was all over with I'm sure.

Transferring the sound card is a great way to save money. Chances are though that the onboard sound is probably going to be better considering that it will be 5.1 surround sound. Of course you would need to grab either a 4-point with bass speaker system or a 6-speaker system to take advantage of it. In the meantime the sound card that you have should do just fine and save some start up costs as well. That is part of the trick.

The 2.4c has been discussed as being the most stable chip when overclocked even up at speed of 3 gigs. For my money I would tend to bet that this is the best chip for overclocking on the market today.

However, a word to the wise about overclocking. Make sure that you really do your research on this subject before attempting anything of the sort. This is a highly dangerous and costly hobby that you are considering taking up. Have a backup system running and some reserve cash to make repairs if necessary. If anything goes slightly wrong it is possible to fry your entire system. I have heard horror stories about chips going bad and taking the motherboard, video card, memory, hard drive and pretty much everything else with it.

Today’s motherboards are much easier to overclock with though and help to reduce the risk involved. My personal view on the subject is to run everything at normal speeds for a good period of time like 6 months or so and then overclock only if necessary. A chip with the power of a 2.4c will blow your socks off straight out of the package and with the other specs that you have mentioned you will be in wonderland without having to add the stress and pressure of worrying about overheating anything.

Thanks for the tips on the SE. I have decided to get the Xtasy ATI 9600 8x 256mb card from CompUSA by the end of this week. I figure that it is the best bet for now and that nothing better will come along for a while so why not jump right in?

[Airhog]

has anyone actually installed a water cooling system in their computer?

Any pros and cons to this other than the obvious?

Also since most video cards now have a beefy fan/heatsink, is it possible to cool your video card with water? Im guessing no, but it would be nice.

It would be even better if you could cool the processor, powersupply, videocard, and your harddrives all with one system. It would really cut the noise.

Believe me when i say a loud fan sucks, it will get on your nerves after a year or 2

[Ryche]

We have officially started I guess, my wife bought the video card today.

[yabanci]

hi there, I just built my newest computer a few months ago, so I thought I'd throw this in.

As everyone says, Newegg is the only place to buy.

One thing that many people don't think about when buying computers is sound. This might not apply to you, but there are choices you can make when buying that will make your new computer SIGNIFICANTLY more quiet. And once you've heard a quiet pc, you'll realize what you've been missing. When you buy prebuilt, you don't really have any of these options. So when I built this computer I did heavy research into how to make it a "quiet pc."

If this interests you, the most important decision is the case. I went with the Antec Sonata, because it was designed as a quiet case. It has a single 80mm fan (large fans are quieter because they need less rpms), an antec 380wt single fan power supply (almost all powersupplies come with two fans, which generate more noise), and special drive bays to reduce vibration. It also has a sylish black paint job that looks like something out of a jaguar dealership show room.

The second most important decision is the heatsink/fan. The stock amd and intel fans are noisy as hell, and they inferior at cooling. Again, you want to get a hsf with a large fan with low rpm. There are a number of options for this, but I went with the Spire falconrock II because it has great cooling, low sound, and a low price ($21).

Hard drives and video cards also contribute noise and some think you can make a difference by making certain choices here too, but I think it's negligible.

So anyway, here is what I went with:

AMD Athlon XP 2500 Barton processor
Spire Falconrock2 HSF
Epox 8RDA nforce2 motherboard
512k Kingston HyperX PC3500 ram
nvida gforce fx5600 128mb
Maxtor 160gb hard drive 7200 8mb buffer
Antec Sonata case
KDS XF-9b 19' flatscreen monitor
Windows XP Home OEM

Overclock the processor and this will run at 3.2 ghz.

I already had the other parts, so I think this was all I got. A quick check shows you can get it all for about $800, with little or no shipping charges.

You just need a keyboard, mouse, cd-rw or dvd+rw, and speakers. Most of the things like sound card, network card, firewire, usb, etc, are all integrated on the nvidia nforce2 motherboard, and they are excellent (especially sound), so you don't need to buy them separately. This is a big reason I like the nforce2 chipsets -- because so much is integrated you don't have to worry about driver conflicts and you don't have to buy and (worst of all) install them separately. Simplicity is extremely valuable.

With regard to processor, some people like intel because it is the leader and many of its processors are more powerful than amd's. I go with AMD because they simply cost much less for equal performance and can be overclocked much more effectively. But really this generation's processors are all so fast the difference is not really noticable. For example, I can run my processor at 2.5 gz and then bump it up to 3.2 gz, and for the most part I really can't tell the difference between the two. For things like web browsing, email, word processing, etc, it's feels exactly the same. So don't worry too much about whether this is a little faster than that -- you probaby wouldn't notice anyway.

It's probably true that the ATI GPUs presently are faster than the nvidia GPUs, but I went with nvidea because nvidia also makes the nforce2 motherboard chipset, so you are less likely to have conflicts going all nvidia. So with nvidia I have a single unified driver that handles I/O, video, sound, network, firewire, usb, everything.

Whatever you do, one place you can save a lot of money is the hard drive. Typically you can get a 160gb hard drive for about $140. But if you watch the anandtech hot deals forum you will find places that put the drives on sale and with a rebate you can get the drive for about half price. I think I got mine for $74 shipping and tax included.

And whatever you do, don't buy the fastest chip out there, it's just complete a waste of money.

Go to the anandtech forums and you will get a ton of free help from the hardcore hardware experts.

good luck.

[Godzilla Blitz]

I've been looking at motherboards today. Kind of overwhelming. I'm getting a sense that ASUS and ABIT are the leading Intel mobo makers, but it's been difficult for me to find easy to digest info on a number of boards. Does anyone know a site that ranks motherboards by categories on a one- or two-webpage chart? At most of the sites I've been to, each motherboard gets a write-up on a single webpage. This means wading through dozens of pages and writeups. Yuck. Or anyone have an Intel board recommendation for a P4 2.4C (or higher) CPU w 800MHz Hyper Threading?

Florida: Your point on not needing to overclock for a while is an excellent one. I've noticed that a lot of people that build their own computers are really into squeezing every bit of performance out of their machines. Some pretty hardcore stuff. I've got to stay away from that game. No need to go there. Hell, I've been somewhat happy with how Morrowind runs on my P3 800MHz. I'll be in hog heaven with that game running on a P4.

Airhog: Isn't water cooling kind of expensive ($200-$300 for a heatsink?), and geared towards really pushing the limits of your machine?

Ryche: Way to go! I've started as well. I'm starting to drop things in a cart at Newegg.

yabanci: Thanks for all the info. I was looking at the Sonata case too, but had noticed that quite a few people had complained about the flimsy front door breaking, and the way the rear fan mounts on the case (some kind of rubber dohickies that don't work well). What's your take on those comments? Other than those comments, it sure did look like that was a solid case.

Also, regarding cases, I read an article today that talked about the new style of motherboards (BTX form instead of ATX form?) that will be coming out next year. According to the article, it represents a vastly new motherboard architecture, and will make existing cases obsolete (as far as upgrading goes) over the course of the next couple of years. In other words, when you go to upgrade your motherboard a year from now, you'll want to get a BTX motherboard instead of an ATX, and a BTX won't work in any case you buy today. So...the traditional idea of plunking down extra cash on a nice case that will last you through multiple upgrades doesn't apply any more. Not sure if there's something the author is missing.

The article:
BTX Motherboards (http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.html?i=1876)

[Tasan]

Originally posted by Airhog
has anyone actually installed a water cooling system in their computer?

Any pros and cons to this other than the obvious?

Also since most video cards now have a beefy fan/heatsink, is it possible to cool your video card with water? Im guessing no, but it would be nice.

It would be even better if you could cool the processor, powersupply, videocard, and your harddrives all with one system. It would really cut the noise.

Believe me when i say a loud fan sucks, it will get on your nerves after a year or 2

Ironic that Airhog would post about water cooling, in a geeky ironic way at least ;- )

Anyway, as GB stated water cooling was originally designed to be a highend overclocker's way to cool a system way down. However, its becoming an alternative for quiet systems too.

As far as video cards, yes, most water cooling systems do come with vid solutions. You just have to get the cooling that came with your card, off. It can be tricky, you've got to be real gentle. I know a guy who killed his card prying off the heatsink with a screwdriver.

Several of the water cooling systems being sold today come with cooling solutions for every piece of heated system hardware. Harddrives, vid cards, processor, power supply, and sometimes memory.

Just be careful and don't nick any of the hoses, etc. It would suck to have a leak. ;- )

[FloridaFringe]

The BTX Motherboards will be coming out next year but it isn't something that you will need to worry about for a while. With the setup that you are looking at building there will be several upgrades available to you that will last well into 2004 if not 2005. It will take you some time to max out your memory and the video cards that you will have to choose from over the next year will satisfy you plenty without worrying about upgrading your motherboard. This is part of the reason to make sure that you get a really good motherboard right from the start. That way you can focus on the fun stuff for the next couple of years. Once you are ready to rebuild another computer from scratch then it will all start over again with the BTX instead of ATX boards. In the end you will be able to sell your complete custom built computer with the case and all in order to re-coop some cash for the next build. It’s a beautiful cycle to get into and can yield some interesting results.

The greatest comments that keep repeating themselves in this thread by many others and myself is the simple fact that many of the "advanced" alterations that you can make will not seem noticeable. You are looking at building a computer that will be on the verge of being completely awesome and the difference between overclocking a 2.4 to a 3 or getting a P5 instead of a P4 or a $500 video card over a $200 card just won't be substantial, for now. The point is that anything you put together now will seem like a godsend compared to what you have and therefore will impress you well beyond your expectations. Save your money and the stress by sticking to what you think will work well without going overboard.

As far as comparing Motherboards goes, Abit has a Comparison Chart that lists all of their boards side by side so that you can see the differences. I am sure that Asus does the same if you look hard enough. The main thing that you want to do is to look for a FSB of 800/533 and it will probably state that it supports Hyper Threading. If you find a board that shows a FSB of 800/533/400 then it will require some research to find out if the 800 is emulated or a true FSB. In other words, several 533/400 boards can be pushed to 800mhz so they advertise them as such when in reality they are not a true 800mhz board. This is the same concept with memory as well and the main reason to stick with anything that is DDR3200 or better instead of settling for DDR2700 or less.

Here is a link to the Abit comparisons: Link (http://www.abit-usa.com/products/mb/comparison.php)

Also, check out Motherboards.com for some more info: Link (http://www.motherboards.com)

If you like just post the Abit boards and the Asus boards that you are looking at within your price point and I will see if there is anything that I can offer in regards to specifics about each.

[sterlingice]

For hardware reports, I like to check out:

www.extremetech.com (it's a pcmagazine site) and, of course,
www.tomshardware.com

SI

[Godzilla Blitz]

This is a stupid question, but do most decent motherboards have an Ethernet port on them now? Is that what the "1xCOM" signifies in the board's I/O features list? (meaning there is one 10/100 Ethernet connection on the board itself?)

Florida: Thanks again for all the info. Kind of narrowed down the motherboard choice to one of the following three:

ASUS P4P800 DELUXE ($120 something)
ABIT IC7-G ($172)
ABIT IC7 ($120 something)

Leaning towards the ABIT IC7-G. It's about $50 more than the other two, but looks like it might be worth the extra cash. t this point, I'm basically throwing together the system I would like to buy, then plan on dropping down in quality if everything comes to more than $1500. I'd also like to avoid wasting money on something that just won't matter too, so I'd be interested in hearing if anyone thinks these boards are overkill.

Sterling: Thanks! I'll go check those sites out. I'm getting a great list of sites here! I did notice a small button at Newegg that lets you view one vendor's products in a more user friendly list, so that helps considerably.

...Now I'm looking at RAM. I take it Corsair, Kensington, and Crucial are good? Should I be worried about getting RAM from a reputable company, or is all that matters the DDR3200 and the amount?

[Godzilla Blitz]

This seems to be helpful regarding the ATI video cards. It's a the benchmark portion of an article from one of the sites Sterling suggested:

ATI Benchmarks (http://www.tomshardware.com/graphic/20031015/radeon9600xt-07.html)

[yabanci]

Originally posted by Godzilla Blitz

yabanci: Thanks for all the info. I was looking at the Sonata case too, but had noticed that quite a few people had complained about the flimsy front door breaking, and the way the rear fan mounts on the case (some kind of rubber dohickies that don't work well). What's your take on those comments? Other than those comments, it sure did look like that was a solid case.

[/B]


yes, the front door is sort of flimsy because it's removable and if you are not careful when you take it off and put it on you might break it. (but you only take it off when first install the front drive bays and even then you don't need to remove it). I disagree about the rear fan mounts -- they work great and are important in stopping vibration and noise. The manual doesn't do the best job of explaining how to install the rear fan with the rubber grommets, so that might have been the problem for the people who complained.

[yabanci]

Originally posted by Godzilla Blitz


...Now I'm looking at RAM. I take it Corsair, Kensington, and Crucial are good? Should I be worried about getting RAM from a reputable company, or is all that matters the DDR3200 and the amount?

Yes, imo you should get high quality ram from a reputable company, because ram is notorious for causing system instability. Probably the smartest thing you can do is once you decide on your motherboard, go to the forums for that motherboard and see what people are saying about ram. You will probably see there what kind of ram works well with the MB and what kind has problems. For example, with my MB everybody was having problems with Corsair but getting really good results with Kingston, so I went with Kingston HyperX and have never had a problem.

[kingnebwsu]

Well, my buddies put together my PC and it's up and running (kind of). Roomy had to sleep, otherwise I'd have XP. But I'm stuck with '98 tonight. Halo PC kept crashing on me, so I dunno what the deal is. More in a few days after I (hopefully) get everything straightened out.l

[Tasan]

Crucial is the top of the line in memory pretty much. It is very important to match your ram to your motherboard too, so I'd get a list of "compatable" ram for the motherboard you are looking at. Most manufacturers will have one.

Most motherboards do have ethernet ports on them, but he 1xCOM you are seeing is in reference to the serial port.

[wishbone]

Crucial, Kensington and Corsair are all good brands, I personally buy Crucial but the other 2 brands generally have more aggressive timings so they can run faster.

The ATI 9600SE is a neutered version of the other 9600s, it has a 64bit memory interface, other ATI cards are 128 bit. Get a 9600XT, it should be under $200, comes with a voucher for Half-life 2 and generally outperforms the nVidia cards in most directx 9 games, giving you a better card now and for the next couple years.

Here's a comparison of the 9600s:
http://www.ati.com/products/radeon9600/radeon9600pro/compare.html

[jefflackey]

Originally posted by Godzilla Blitz
This is a stupid question, but do most decent motherboards have an Ethernet port on them now? Is that what the "1xCOM" signifies in the board's I/O features list? (meaning there is one 10/100 Ethernet connection on the board itself?)

Florida: Thanks again for all the info. Kind of narrowed down the motherboard choice to one of the following three:

ASUS P4P800 DELUXE ($120 something)
ABIT IC7-G ($172)
ABIT IC7 ($120 something)




Here's an article that compares those motherboards (and some others:)

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,3973,1203440,00.asp

Yeah, most MBs have a decent Ethernet port on them.

I like Cruical for memory. Others may be fine, I just have had good experiences with them, so I stick with them.

Jeff

[Godzilla Blitz]

Thanks again for all the feedback on cases and memory. Got sidetracked for a few days with family stuff, but have managed to start piecing together components today.

Friday I got a book: Build you own High-Performance Gamer's Mod PC. I looked at three different books, and this one was the most clearly written of the pack, with decent photos and straightforward instructions. Build Your Own PC,
by Morris Rosenthal has a pretty cover, but the writing was trash: lots of typos and ambiguous instructions abound. The third book I looked at, The Dummies' Guide to Building a PC, was ok, but they crack too many stupid jokes, are too wordy, and have no photos, so I passed on that one. So far I've been pleased with the content of the book I got, but the real test will come when I start plugging things together.

Also picked up a case today: Antec Sonata.

Hope to have all the pieces in the next couple of weeks, but I'm in no hurry, so I might wait for good deals.

Costs so far:
Book: $1.29 (used credit card coupons worth $20) Bought at Border's
Case: $127 (awaiting $20 rebate check). Bought at MicroCenter. This case would have been $106 shipped from Newegg, so I could have saved $1 and not have had to wait for a rebate check if I had purchased through them, but I wanted to get started now, and liked the idea of being able to pick an undamaged box off the shelf at MicroCenter.
Total: $128.79

[wbonnell]

Originally posted by wishbone
Crucial, Kensington and Corsair are all good brands, I personally buy Crucial but the other 2 brands generally have more aggressive timings so they can run faster.

The ATI 9600SE is a neutered version of the other 9600s, it has a 64bit memory interface, other ATI cards are 128 bit. Get a 9600XT, it should be under $200, comes with a voucher for Half-life 2 and generally outperforms the nVidia cards in most directx 9 games, giving you a better card now and for the next couple years.

Here's a comparison of the 9600s:
http://www.ati.com/products/radeon9600/radeon9600pro/compare.html

Have you heard about the apparent production snafu?

http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.cfm?catid=40&threadid=1171427&FTVAR_MSGDBTABLE=

I visited all three local (Austin) area Best Buys today but failed to find one. Oh well...

[yabanci]

Originally posted by Godzilla Blitz

Also picked up a case today: Antec Sonata.


I think you'll be very happy with the case. Here's a couple of tips on putting it together that would have helped me:

1. leave the front door on. You can remove it to install the cd/floppy drives, but it doesn't make it any easier and you might break the door hinge in the process. It's better to just leave it on so it stays secure.

2. When installing the rear fan, you will have four grommets that look like 1" rubber screws. The pointy end of the screws stick out the back of the computer. So the logo side of the fan points out the back of the case and the screws will go from inside the case through the fan holes and stick out the back of the case.

I hope the second point makes sense. If not, it will when it comes time to install the fan. I remember the manual wasn't real clear on this and it just "seemed" wrong to have the grommets poking out the back like that, but that's the way it is supposed to be.

Good luck.

[wishbone]

Originally posted by wbonnell
Have you heard about the apparent production snafu?

http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.cfm?catid=40&threadid=1171427&FTVAR_MSGDBTABLE=

I visited all three local (Austin) area Best Buys today but failed to find one. Oh well...

Yeah I heard about that after I had posted. Heck of a deal if you can find one.

[Godzilla Blitz]

Originally posted by wbonnell
Have you heard about the apparent production snafu?

http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.cfm?catid=40&threadid=1171427&FTVAR_MSGDBTABLE=

I visited all three local (Austin) area Best Buys today but failed to find one. Oh well...

Hey, thanks! The second BestBuy I went to had a 9600 SE in stock with the correct serial number. Bought it, opened it, voila! 9600 PRO! Bingo! $40 discount on the PRO and includes the Half Life 2 coupon as well. Good deal.

Awful considerate of ATI to do this. Just a wonderful company, if you ask me. :)

yabanci: Thanks for the tips on the case! The second point makes perfect sense.

[wbonnell]

Originally posted by Godzilla Blitz
Hey, thanks! The second BestBuy I went to had a 9600 SE in stock with the correct serial number. Bought it, opened it, voila! 9600 PRO! Bingo! $40 discount on the PRO and includes the Half Life 2 coupon as well. Good deal.

Awful considerate of ATI to do this. Just a wonderful company, if you ask me. :)

yabanci: Thanks for the tips on the case! The second point makes perfect sense.

Good job! Where do you live?

[Godzilla Blitz]

Dola...

Added more stuff today. So far I'm up to this...

Video Card: $138.44, Radeon 9600 Pro (w Half Life 2 coupon)
Book: $1.29, Build your own High-Performance...
Case: $127.00, Antec Sonata (awaiting $20 rebate check).
Motherboard: $154.99, ABIT IC7-G MAX2
System Software: $138.00, Windows XP Professional
Other Software: $165.00, Office 2003 Professional
Total to Date: $724.72 (awaiting $20 rebate)

Got to pick up the CPU, sound card, RAM, and drives next.

[wbonnell]

Originally posted by Godzilla Blitz
Dola...

Added more stuff today. So far I'm up to this...

Video Card: $138.44, Radeon 9600 Pro (w Half Life 2 coupon)
Book: $1.29, Build your own High-Performance...
Case: $127.00, Antec Sonata (awaiting $20 rebate check).
Motherboard: $154.99, ABIT IC7-G MAX2
System Software: $138.00, Windows XP Professional
Other Software: $165.00, Office 2003 Professional
Total to Date: $724.72 (awaiting $20 rebate)

Got to pick up the CPU, sound card, RAM, and drives next.

does your motherboard not have an acceptable sound card?

[Godzilla Blitz]

Originally posted by wbonnell
Good job! Where do you live?

Sorry, missed your post in there.

Twin Cities. The first BestBuy (Minnetonka) was sold out, expecting more in tonight. The second one (Brooklyn Center) had four in stock, but I'm not sure how many serial numbers have to match in order to be certain to have the PRO inside. The one I bought matched one on the Anandatech forum (180336008xxx-xx), but the other three were 180336009xxx-xx, and I wasn't sure if they have the PRO inside.

I noticed a bunch of these showing up on Ebay now too.

I think the mobo has a good sound card, but I was thinking on adding a Turtle Beach Santa Cruz ($45).

[jefflackey]

I never used on-board sound until I built my last system - the Gigabyte board came with what was essentially Creative 5:1 sound chips. I figured I'd try it, and then if the sound was bad or problematic I could always add a sound card later.

Never did add the sound card. :) I'd recommend at least trying the on board sound and saving your money - you can always add one in two seconds later if you need one. But I'm betting a dollar you'll decide you don't need one.

[Godzilla Blitz]

Does anyone have an opinion on what type of DVD burners (+R or -R) are better? Been looking on the net and it's a lot like the blind leading the blind. I'd like to play DVDs in a PS2 or an X-box, or perhaps even in a standalone DVD player. Getting a combo DVD drive that does both + and - is too expensive for me now.

Also, are there any advantages to having both a DVD player and a DVD burner on the same computer? Can you copy DVDs faster that way?

jeff: I might hold off then and see how it goes. I currently have a Turtle Beach in my old computer, so I may just add a very cheap card to that one and move the Tutle Beach to the new one if I decide I need it. Thanks!

[jefflackey]

Godzilla - there's a good review of DVD burners up on extremetech.com.

Just for comparison purposes, I had a Turtle Beach Santa Cruz in my previous computer, and the sound from the MB chipset is at least as good.

[Godzilla Blitz]

Originally posted by jefflackey
Godzilla - there's a good review of DVD burners up on extremetech.com.

Thanks. I found that very helpful. I've got a couple of candidates picked out now.

[Ryche]

Twin Cities. The first BestBuy (Minnetonka) was sold out, expecting more in tonight. The second one (Brooklyn Center) had four in stock, but I'm not sure how many serial numbers have to match in order to be certain to have the PRO inside. The one I bought matched one on the Anandatech forum (180336008xxx-xx), but the other three were 180336009xxx-xx, and I wasn't sure if they have the PRO inside.

Lol, looks like we live extremely close to each other. The Minnetonka Best Buy is within walking distance from my work. Too bad I already bought my video card or I'd have to check out that deal.

[Wasabiak]

Have any of you thought about (or maybe you already do) building pc's and selling them on the side, or even for a living? I have been thinking about this for about a year now, due to my severe disinterest in my current job. What would the drawbacks be? Any thoughts?

[wbonnell]

Originally posted by Wasabiak
Have any of you thought about (or maybe you already do) building pc's and selling them on the side, or even for a living? I have been thinking about this for about a year now, due to my severe disinterest in my current job. What would the drawbacks be? Any thoughts?

slim profit margin....

[Wasabiak]

What about pc repair? That and fixing cars are about the 2 things i know best. Looks like it's time to return to school.........

[Wasabiak]

Dola

I didnt mean to hyjack the thread, sorry.

[Godzilla Blitz]

Ryche: Yes, we are close. I live in Golden Valley.

Wasabiak: No problem on the thread jack. No clue on the computer job. I know I couldn't build computers on the side yet, but I would think it could make a decent "hobby-business" if you knew what you're doing. The tricky part would be support. If you build it for someone, they'll call you when something goes wrong, and depending on the customer, that could eat up a boatload of time.

[FloridaFringe]

It sounds as if everything is coming along nicely for you. I haven't been able to do much research on any motherboards but from what I have read it would appear as if you have made the right choice by going with the Abit IC7-G Max 2. It also appears as if you are really going with some high-end products in regards to the excellent case that you have bought as well as the DVD Burner that you are currently looking into. From what I am to understand you will be able to copy DVD much faster by having both a player and a separate burner but I have not personally tried this as of yet.

Also, the video card production snafu was obviously good to you since getting a 9600 Pro at such a low price is never a bad thing. So far everything seems to be going well and you are obviously on the right track to building what will probably become the best computer that you will ever have. At least until you build the next one of course.

My personal experience with building computers has lead me down the path of building them as inexpensively as possible and then upgrading whenever necessary. This translate into skipping on several added features on nearly every component in order to slim the costs down to a super low price point. For example, instead of the Abit IC7-G Max 2 I have chosen the Abit IS7, which has brought the overall cost down by $50. There are some really good features included on the IC7 that I personally would never take advantage off so the savings outweighs the need in my particular case.

Furthermore, many people would recommend buying memory from one of the three leading brand name companies but I personally have never done this and prefer a different method. I simply start with the three least expensive memory modules that fit the criteria that are needed and start looking for reviews. This includes customer reviews as well as forum board threads that may point me in a certain direction. Once I am satisfied with a particular non-brand name memory type I usually find that they work just as well as the more expensive brand name types. There will always be faster memory than what someone currently has but the differences are usually not noticeable to me except in the department of overall costs. To this day I have yet to experience any problems with non-brand memory for any of the machines that I have built starting back in 1993, knock on wood. This can save nearly $40 or more per stick of memory, which really adds ups quickly when you need to buy them in pairs.

At any rate, these are just my opinions on building machines that are only meant for my own personal use. The bottom line for me is to save as much money as possible knowing full well that a year or so down the road I will be doing the whole thing over again. In the meantime I can always upgrade to better memory, larger hard drive or even a better video card if necessary and components like DVD drives can always be added as well. Take my words for what they are worth and not necessary as some hard coded advice since the majority of builders may not agree. There are several philosophies of computer building and mine is a more minimalist approach to the hobby. In the end it all comes down to what you have as a starting budget and what you are willing to spend overall.

Best of luck and keep on rolling.


Here is what I bought last weekend to get my new project underway:

Xtasy ATI 9600 AGP 8x 256mb Graphics Card ($150)

SeaGate Barracuda 80gb 7200rpm Internal Ultra ATA/100 Hard Drive ($50)

Lite-On 52x32x52 Internal CD-RW Drive ($20)

iConcepts 4D Optical Wheel Mouse (Free)

iConcepts Multimedia Keyboard (Free)

The rest will be ordered this weekend from NewEgg with the intensions of having everything by next weekend for the build process to begin. Keeping my fingers crossed.

[Godzilla Blitz]

Picked up more stuff over the past couple of days. Now up to this, and have ordered enough to get the system running. There are a couple more things I want that are out-of-stock at Newegg, but they're not necessary right now...

Video Card: $138.44, Radeon 9600 Pro (w Half Life 2 coupon)
Book: $1.29, Build your own High-Performance...
Case: $127.00, Antec Sonata (awaiting $20 rebate check).
Motherboard: $154.99, ABIT IC7-G MAX2
System Software: $138.00, Windows XP Professional
Other Software: $165.00, Office 2003 Professional
CD Drive: $63.29, Lite-On 52x32x52 (awaiting $40 rebate)
Hard Drive: $106, SeaGate Barracuda 80gb internal (awaiting $50 rebate)
CPU: $175, Intel P4 2.6C w 800MHz multithreading
RAM: $235, Corsair XMS 1Gb 3200
Keyboard: $10.50, Logictech Internet Keyboard
Other: $34, (second fan, thermal compound, shipping)
Total to Date: $1348.51 (awaiting $90 rebates)

I'm thinking that I might sell my old system, which will help cut the cost some, and I should be able to get X-COM running on my P3 laptop.

Still want to add a trackball ($20) and depending on what I do with my old computer, I may need to pick up a cheap monitor to replace the old I'll move to my new system (about $150). I've got a DVD+- Burner ($125) that I want to order from NewEgg when they get them in, but otherwise that's it. If everything comes together nicely, I'll be ecstatic, as I should have put everything together, including Office 2003 Pro and XP Pro, for about $1550, and I think I'll end up with a much better system than a Dell bought one.

This process definitely is time-consuming. I've probably spent 10-15 hours looking up stuff and reading on the net, and another 3 hours or so visiting stores. Still, I know a hell of a lot more about computers than I did two weeks ago, and it's been a fun process so far. IF I can get the thing together and everything works well, this will have been a rewarding experience. I just hope I don't get hopelessly lost in the build.

Next chapter: Waiting for the FedEx man!

Florida: I notice that we've been shopping some of the same stores! Looks like we got some stuff at CompUSA and BestBuy. I tried to get the free mouse, keyboard, and surge protector but OfficeMax was out. The guy chuckled and said, "Oh, we've been out of those since the first day. They go fast. Heh heh." Probably had two of them in stock. Add one more to the tally of "consecutive dissatisfied visits to OfficeMax".

I can definitely see the cost advantages to your bargain-building. My thinking this time is that since this is my first time I'll drop some extra cash to up the odds that I won't have a problem getting the thing running. I think next time I'll know a lot more and will be able to cut corners more effectively.

[Godzilla Blitz]

Dola...

Wow.

All the stuff arrived on Wednesday, and I started messing with the motherboard on Thursday night. Taking extreme care and working very slowly (with lots of time for reading manuals, etc.), I put the motherboard in, attached the CPU with Arctic Silver, put in the RAM, and attached the slew of cables that run from the front of the computer case (USB, firewire, lights, etc.). Took about three hours, but if I did it again I think I could do it in under an hour.

Added the hard drive, video card, and CD ROM this evening. Took about an hour, with most of that time figuring out how nuances of my case worked.

Plugged it in, hooked it up, threw salt in all four directions to appease the gods, and pressed the power button...

Voila! It works! Windows XP is now formatting the harddrive as I type this (on another computer).

So far so good. Still have to install drivers, clean up the inside of the case, and maybe put in a second fan. Still waiting on a floppy drive and a DVD player, but otherwise this thing is looking good to go.

I was amazed at how easy this has been so far. I suppose I could still have problems, but I thought it would take me most of the weekend to get the thing together. After I got the video card in tonight, I spent 15 minutes looking for the next thing to install, but there was nothing left. I was amazed that it only took four hours to build a computer.

Unless things change dramatically, I will never buy another brand-name PC in my life. I highly recommend this to anyone that is interested in getting more bang for their buck. It really is incredibly easy.

Thanks again to everyone who took the time to offer advice! It was very helpful!

[RPI-Fan]

Congratulations!

[FloridaFringe]

I second that congratulations. Job well done.

[wbonnell]

Very satisying, eh? Hopefully, you won't have any stability problems.

[jefflackey]

Congrats! Isn't it incredibly satisfying to look at that machine and know that you "designed" it (you chose every component and combination of parts) and built it? That is an intangible bonus that goes a step beyond the pure cost comparisons.

In addition, you'll be able to tweak and upgrade to your heart's content.

One suggestion (and I'm sure I'm the only idiot who WOULDN'T think to do this: ) make sure you have a file folder or box in which you keep ALL of your receipts and manuals - I also print out tips and hints (e.g., BIOS tweaks from a motherboard forum, suggestions on how to improve the "quiet" factor, etc.) and out them in there.

[Godzilla Blitz]

Thanks!

I'm having trouble getting the computer hooked up to the internet (if the motherboard has a LAN chip, I don't need to add an Ethernet card to use my broadband connection, do I?), but I think that's more a function of the ancient internet software splitting system I am using. I'm going to add a wireless router to the house today and that should take care of the problem and allow me to start downloading the latest drivers, etc. Hopefully everything will be finished by late this evening.

Jeff: That's the last thing I did before going to bed last night. Put all the manuals and CDs in the same place. There is a slew of them. I store miscellaneous computer info in a database on one of my computers, and have found it really helpful when I end up trying to solve the same problem a year later, when invariably I have forgotten what steps I took to get whatever it was fixed.

[FloridaFringe]

Excellent suggestions Jeff as too many people just keep the receipts in a general pile with the fast food and gas receipts from the same week. A separate file with all documentation including manuals as well as hints & tips should be kept for each custom computer someone builds. I even create individual folders within the main computer folder to hold information specific to certain devices. So if the Hard Drive or the Video Card starts accumulating extra documentation they will end up with their own folders.

GB: How did your Internet setup turn out?

All of my parts should be bought and paid for by Wednesday for my new computer. Hopefully everything will arrive in time for me to start building during the Thanksgiving weekend. Should be fun.

I have also decided to upgrade what is now my main computer but will soon become my secondary machine. Video Card, Memory, Processor and Hard Drive are all that is needed in order to top it off completely. So today I bought another Video Card from CompUSA for what I consider to be a steal. Currently they are offering the ATI Radeon 9600 Pro 8x AGP 128mb DDR card for $130 after rebates. I simply couldn't pass this one up.

Link (http://www.compusa.com/products/product_info.asp?sid=3FB80F803579617F&product_code=303800&pfp=BROWSE)

Also, they have what seems to be a great Antec case for $70 after rebates that will probably be the one that I'll choose for my newest creation.

Link (http://www.compusa.com/products/product_info.asp?sid=3FB80F803579617F&product_code=300439&pfp=BROWSE)

[Ryche]

I finally got all the pieces together for my computer. Total cost ended up about 1,000 dollars, I can breakdown the price better later. Been spending most of the night putting it together with my wife.

Unfortunately, we hit one snag in the process. It seems that we bought a Serial ATA hard drive, but our motherboard doesn't have a port to plug the hard drive into it. So either we have to exchange the hard drive (not sure how that works with purchases over the internet and I don't want to wait to make the swap) or I need an IDE to SATA adapter. I haven't found any place in town that sells one though.

Fun fun fun, but it will be worth it in the end.

[Samdari]

Originally posted by Godzilla Blitz
I was amazed that it only took four hours to build a computer.

Just wait, two years from now, the next one will take 45 minutes.

[Godzilla Blitz]

Ryche: Glad to hear that everything (except for the hard drive) is going well. Let us know how it turns out!

Samdari: Yeah, I was really surprised at how quickly the build went. In the back of my mind I thought there would be zillions of little things to do, but the only part that took a little time was figuring out where all the connectors from the front of the computer case attached to the mobo. I can see how quite a few things can be streamlined, though, and can imagine that things will only get simpler.

I am thinking that I might like to go into BIOS and optimize/tweak performance at some point in the next few days. Can anyone suggest a good web site for tweaking performance?

[Godzilla Blitz]

Update

Long time no post in this thread, but I wanted to drop a final comment on this. It's been three and a half years since I built this computer, and I've only had one minor problem with the CPU fan, which I was able to fix by cleaning it.

And that's been it. The computer has been rock solid for the three and a half years I've had it. I just added a faster video card tonight, as I'm hoping to squeeze another year out of the system before building a new one or buying a Mac Intel.

In retrospect, I am so happy that I built my own computer, and have no regrets for having done so. I'd encourage anyone thinking of doing likewise to give it a shot. I'm also glad I spent a little bit extra to get quality components (good power supply, motherboard, case etc.).