The Yankees

[Bomber]

Are in the process of having the worst offseason ever. Womack, Wright, and Milton all apparently have been signed.

[mckerney]

And mlb.com just stopped selling these:

http://bostondirtdogs.boston.com/Headline_Archives/NYYsweat2004ALCS.jpg

[DaddyTorgo]

Tony Womack!?!?! Congratulations!

[Bomber]

Well I was just informed Milton hasn't been signed yet, so there is still some hope. This Wright deal is just insanity. I'm stunned by it.

[stevew]

Wright looked like a fairly good pitcher to me. Why do you dislike him so?

[Suicane75]

The Yankees are slowly sliding towards that mid 80's level of mediocrity.

[Bomber]

Wright looked like a fairly good pitcher to me. Why do you dislike him so?

He's sucked for most of his career and this past year was with Leo Mazzone in the NL, so I doubt he'll be able to repeat. Especially not with Mel Stottlemyre staying on as the Yanks pitching coach.

[Bomber]

The Yankees are slowly sliding towards that mid 80's level of mediocrity.

Slowly? Fuck that, they just did it in one day.

[stevew]

Sportsline had him ranked as the #12 starting pitcher in baseball last season FWIW. Granted the year before he was listed among the worst.

[Bomber]

Sportsline had him ranked as the #12 starting pitcher in baseball last season FWIW. Granted the year before he was listed among the worst.

Like I said Mazzone and the NL. I just don't see why Lieber's option wasn't picked up.

[oykib]

I just don't see why Lieber's option wasn't picked up.

It was an $8 million option. He's not worth close to that in today's market. I'd rather have Milton for that amount (even though resigning Lieber on the open market for two plus incentives would've been best).

[Crapshoot]

It was an $8 million option. He's not worth close to that in today's market. I'd rather have Milton for that amount (even though resigning Lieber on the open market for two plus incentives would've been best).

Eric "Fly Ball" Milton ? you're kidding right ?

Win Shares:
Leiber: 11.5
Milton: 8

Take into account further that Milton had Polanco and Rollins (along with Byrd) defensively- while Leiber had WilCairo/ "past a Diving Jeter" and Bernie Williams...

[MikeVic]

"past a Diving Jeter"

This cracks me up. :D

[Bomber]

It was an $8 million option. He's not worth close to that in today's market. I'd rather have Milton for that amount (even though resigning Lieber on the open market for two plus incentives would've been best).

You see he wasn't worth $8 million a year, and then Kris Benson signed and now he is. Milton is just horrible, you though Javy let up a lot of home runs just wait till Milton gets in there, he let up 43 last year. Unless the Yankees know something about RJ that we don't this pitching staff is just terrible.

[Ksyrup]

I'm convinced that George wants Milton back so he can pretend like the Yankees didn't get completely fleeced for Chuck Knoblauch. If only he had room for Guzman...

[John Galt]

I'm convinced that George wants Milton back so he can pretend like the Yankees didn't get completely fleeced for Chuck Knoblauch. If only he had room for Guzman...

As an ex-Yankee fan and a current Nationals fan, I'd gladly support any effort to get Guzman back to the Yanks.

[FBPro]

I was glad to see MAZZONE help get Wright's career back on track.....however I predict a 6-13 6.47 era season for him w/o Leo.

[lynchjm24]

It was an $8 million option. He's not worth close to that in today's market. I'd rather have Milton for that amount (even though resigning Lieber on the open market for two plus incentives would've been best).

They should have taken the option and I think Leiber is an overrated pile of doo.

[lynchjm24]

Milton is just horrible, you though Javy let up a lot of home runs just wait till Milton gets in there, he let up 43 last year.

Well he is left-handed so moving from Philadelphia which seems to be a good HR park to NY should help him some. Of course facing DH's won't help him much at all.....

[Sharpieman]

Just watch out when they buy Pedro, R. Johnson and Beltran...then go out and buy the Oakland A's and intall their pitching staff and send down the rest of the team to AAA. It could happen.

[Crapshoot]

Well he is left-handed so moving from Philadelphia which seems to be a good HR park to NY should help him some. Of course facing DH's won't help him much at all.....

Except he gave up more HR on the road last year.. :D

[Bomber]

Just watch out when they buy Pedro, R. Johnson and Beltran...then go out and buy the Oakland A's and intall their pitching staff and send down the rest of the team to AAA. It could happen.

We don't want to be like the 2004 Red Sox.

[Desnudo]

I really hope Pedro signs somewhere else than Boston, preferably the Mets. Great pitcher in his time, but has a tear in his shoulder, never works out, and is a prima donna.

[Crapshoot]

I really hope Pedro signs somewhere else than Boston, preferably the Mets. Great pitcher in his time, but has a tear in his shoulder, never works out, and is a prima donna.

Last year- was probably top 5 in the Al. far better than anyone else out there.

[Desnudo]

Last year- was probably top 5 in the Al. far better than anyone else out there.

And that was last year. To me he's a huge risk. One year older, 200 innings more on the arm and a damaged shoulder. Nevermind that he's a huge clubhouse disruption. If it wasn't for Ortiz, something nuts would have happened this season. I'd rather see them try and get Pavano and someone from the A's staff.

[DaddyTorgo]

We don't want to be like the 2004 Red Sox.

Ummmn...sore looser? That quote really...makes no sense Bomber? What were our major acquisitions before 2004?? Schilling? Yeah okay you got us there. Other than that, everyone we signed was a role-player, or marginal-interest free-agent. It's not like we signed Vlad and Schilling and (blanking on the other top free-agents before last year). Not even a legit comparison.

[Bomber]

Ummmn...sore looser? That quote really...makes no sense Bomber? What were our major acquisitions before 2004?? Schilling? Yeah okay you got us there. Other than that, everyone we signed was a role-player, or marginal-interest free-agent. It's not like we signed Vlad and Schilling and (blanking on the other top free-agents before last year). Not even a legit comparison.


You had Trot Nixon, Jeff Suppan (who played for the Cards), and Schilling (who you acquired) come through your farm system. Plus the first $100 million team to win the WS. If that's not "buying" a ring, what is?

[lighthousekeeper]

I was glad to see MAZZONE help get Wright's career back on track.....however I predict a 6-13 6.47 era season for him w/o Leo.

knowing the yankee bats, it'll more like 11-8 6.47 era.

[DaddyTorgo]

You had Trot Nixon, Jeff Suppan (who played for the Cards), and Schilling (who you acquired) come through your farm system. Plus the first $100 million team to win the WS. If that's not "buying" a ring, what is?
Yes Nixon, Suppan and Schilling came through our farm system (Suppan and Schilling only so far though). But you're criticizing us for that? Isn't that the Red Sox developing talent (along with Lowe, Varitek, Garciaparra and Arroyo btw) ? Isn't that what we should be encouraging? I guess we'll have to learn with the stigma of "buying" a ring. Oh well, hasn't seemed to adversely affect Yankee fans for all these years so I assume we'll be fine. Regardless, I don't see how you can criticize the Red Sox for having a major part of their team (even more of it if you consider Cabrera and Minky as what we got for Nomar) being "homegrown." Nobody's ever going to win a WS with just players from their farm system, but I think we had a pretty good balance. Still trying to understand what you meant by "we don't want to be the 2004 Red Sox" though? Does that mean you don't want to win? Or that you don't want to win with a large core of homegrown talent (as you're seeming to suggest in the quote above)? Because lord knows you've already bought plenty of rings, so don't let us getting one stop you now.

http://dynamic2.gamespy.com/%7Efof/forums/images/smilies/confused.gifhttp://dynamic2.gamespy.com/%7Efof/forums/images/smilies/confused.gif

[Desnudo]

You had Trot Nixon, Jeff Suppan (who played for the Cards), and Schilling (who you acquired) come through your farm system. Plus the first $100 million team to win the WS. If that's not "buying" a ring, what is?

I never thought I'd see the day when a Yankees fan accused the Red Sox of buying a ring.

[sterlingice]

Wait, wait, wait? Are the Yankees and Red Sox fans arguing about who can buy World Series better?

SI

[McSweeny]

all i know is that there are 4 year old kids walking around New York who have never seen the Yankees win a World Series

[korme]

funny, but, there are like 80 year olds (and neuqua) walking about Chicago who have never seen the cubbies win a world series

[sterlingice]

funny, but, there are like 80 year olds (and neuqua) walking about Chicago who have never seen the cubbies win a world series
*points shorty towards the sarcasam detetctor repair shop*

SI

[MikeVic]

Yankees fan complaining about the Red Sox buying a ring? What is this world coming to?

[Galaril]

I never thought I'd see the day when a Yankees fan accused the Red Sox of buying a ring.


:) :D :D :D :D :) :)

[Bomber]

There was more key homegrown talent on the Yankees WS champs of the 90s than on the 2004 Red Sox. Its a fact. Only Nixon and Nomar were drafted or signed as amateurs by the Sox. Compared to Jeter, Bernie, Pettitte, Posada, and Rivera (which is still the core of the Yankees).

[rkmsuf]

There was more key homegrown talent on the Yankees WS champs of the 90s than on the 2004 Red Sox. Its a fact. Only Nixon and Nomar were drafted or signed as amateurs by the Sox. Compared to Jeter, Bernie, Pettitte, Posada, and Rivera (which is still the core of the Yankees).

So? What difference does it make how it's accomplished?

[Bomber]

So? What difference does it make how it's accomplished?

It doesn't at all. Its just Sox fans were always so quick to say the Yankees bought their WS rings, when in reality they are far more guilty.

[rkmsuf]

It doesn't at all. Its just Sox fans were always so quick to say the Yankees bought their WS rings, when in reality they are far more guilty.

I'd rather see the money they make spent on players rather than into pockets.

It's an asinine arguement either way though.

[Suicane75]

This is the single dumbest argument of all time.

[Bomber]

Its not an argument its a fact. Red Sox fans whined for years about how the Yankees only one because of money. Where is the whining when the Sox go and do the same thing?

[Desnudo]

It doesn't at all. Its just Sox fans were always so quick to say the Yankees bought their WS rings, when in reality they are far more guilty.

How can you be more guilty? Either you are or you aren't. Typical logic coming from a Yankees fan. Just because Georgy Pordgy's 180 million went to waste this year is no reason to get upset.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Just because Georgy Pordgy's 180 million went to waste this year is no reason to get upset.

Well, unless your last name happens to be Steinbrenner :D

[Bomber]

The Yankees horrid off-season rolls on has they sign a 35 year old lefty specialist from Japan, Dae-Sung Koo. I'd post his stats, but I'm too embarrassed.

[Suicane75]

Its not an argument its a fact. Red Sox fans whined for years about how the Yankees only one because of money. Where is the whining when the Sox go and do the same thing?


Ok, lemme rephrase that. You are arguing over the dumbest thing ever.

[MikeVic]

Its not an argument its a fact. Red Sox fans whined for years about how the Yankees only one because of money. Where is the whining when the Sox go and do the same thing?

The Yankees have been doing it for a few years. Always out-doing themselves. The Red Sox have spent a nice coin this year and won a World Series. There's a difference between shelling out ridiculous money year after year, and shelling out money one year to win a World Series and break a curse/slump.

The former makes you one of the most hated teams in sports, and the later makes baseball fans cheer for you when you finally win.

[Bomber]

You're right the Yankees were totally doing that when they were winning World Series. Dumbass.

[DaddyTorgo]

There was more key homegrown talent on the Yankees WS champs of the 90s than on the 2004 Red Sox. Its a fact. Only Nixon and Nomar were drafted or signed as amateurs by the Sox. Compared to Jeter, Bernie, Pettitte, Posada, and Rivera (which is still the core of the Yankees). only nixon and nomar were drafted+signed (and arroyo IIRC), but lowe+tek were traded for as minor leaguers. Were Jeter, Bernie, Pettitte, Posada and Rivera ALL drafted or signed as amateurs by the Yanks? Cuz if so that's certainly an accomplishment which we'll give you credit for. As for them still being the core of the Yankees...(I can't resist) is that the Yankees team that hasn't won a WS with a payroll north of 100 million (despite the fact it keeps going up), the same one that hasn't won since 2000? I think in reality you could make a strong argument that a large part of the effectiveness of the 90's Yankees teams wasn't "past a diving Jeter" and "Arthritic Bernie" but was rather Paul O'Neil, Knoblauch and Brosius and the like. The "core" that you have now hasn't won anything in 4 years and in fact was hosed by the Florida Marlins 2 years ago and completed the greatest collapse in sports history this past year. Enough of this "argument" though. Yeah we didn't win by using a team with 40 guys that we drafted and had control of for their whole careers. Guess what...NO TEAM IN THE MODERN ERA HAS DONE THAT BECAUSE IT'S NOT THE WAY BASEBALL IS PLAYED ANYMORE!

Period. End of...argument/discussion/whatever.

[Bomber]

That's fine with me, but just so you know Bronson Arroyo was drafted by the Pirates, and played a few games in the bigs for them from 2000-2002, and yes all of those guys were drafted/signed as amateurs by the Yankees.

[Alan T]

I now remember why I dislike Yankees fans :) I am happy for all the Red Sox fans that got to finally enjoy their moment in the sun. Don't let some bitter grapes from down I-95 ruin that for you. :)

I personally wish my team would go back to spending money on trying to buy championships (The Braves), but oh well.. thats a different story I have to deal with :)

[DaddyTorgo]

Yeah Alan the Braves have had a rough run. I still think it's amazing that they made the playoffs all those years in a row and only won what...one world series? With all that dominant pitching especially, when now it seems dominant pitching is the way to go to win a WS. Absolutely unbelievable.

[SackAttack]

Yeah Alan the Braves have had a rough run.

If 12 straight playoff appearances qualifies as a 'rough run,' Lord, let the rain fall on Los Angeles.

[DaddyTorgo]

i should have said a rough run of luck. Always the best man...never the groom. Although some might not think that was such bad luck. http://dynamic2.gamespy.com/%7Efof/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[JasonC23]

Hi, I'm a White Sox Fan. My team hasn't won the World Series since 1917. Hell, they've thrown a series more recently than they've won one. Please keep arguing about who buys titles better, the Red Sox or the Yankees, because it really amuses me.

[DaddyTorgo]

Your time will come Jason. Your time will come. LOL I hafta say I'm enjoying the argument too. Hell, I'm just glad we finally won one, it almost wouldn't matter to me if we'd had to make a deal with the devil to do it.